Been trying to make sense of this all day. Spoke to Johnny as recently as Monday and he was PUMPED to be a Buckeye, so I wasn't buying the "family issue" stuff.
What I think I have come to is that Urban did not want to oversign with this class, whether he knows people are leaving or not. He didn't expect to get all three of Clark, Wilson, and Bell, so he never thought this issue would come up.
When it did (currently at the 82) he asked Townsend to delay signing his letter of intent until they figured out how to deal with it. Options were either announce he would be a preferred walk-on and give him a scholarship when one opens, or tell him to wait past NSD before publicly announcing anything and then commit once someone they know is leaving announces their intent to transfer.
That's just how I see it and is an educated guess, but certainly not fact. Take it for what it's worth.
I thought the same thing. Thanks for all the great work today Alex. Is it time to focus on 2014 yet?
Gonna have to make sure we have good protection if it's gonna take a while to get this one off.
I (thought I) knew that this was the situation.
If so, it was cheezy on our part.
Because I have not received my periodic barrage of the votes we do not mention, I'll say that we should have made Munger wait, not Townsend.
Oversigning by one though? I'm hard pressed to believe that they would not take a guy they really need as a key contributor albeit the punter but nevertheless Meyer values special teams.
Alex...your perspective makes perfect sense and hopefully, for all concerned, this won't drag out too much longer for all concerned.
In spite of the delay with Johnny Townsend, it has been a tremendous day for all Buckeyes, our coaching staff, and team members. Though it has been said here many times, the staff at 11W has done a fabulous job updating fans throughout the recruiting process. Thank you for your hard work. Go Bucks!
I want this kid. I know he is a punter, but he is a good punter. I seem to remember a ceratin team from ten years ago that proved just how important a goof punter can be.
Seems a viable guess Alex. If true, It would bother me a bit in that this kid has been committed for some time & regardless of getting all the targets, what's right is right. He deserves his spot. I trust & believe that Urban & Co figure out a solution to make things square if your scenario is indeed what took place.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
This kid would be a nice upgrade from the past few years.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
I think you are dead on here Alex. While it really isn't a bad thing (and not illegal) to have 83 on the 'roster' right now it doesn't look right. It will make it look like whoever leaves was pushed out the door which looks even worse. Keeping it silent and telling Townsend that he is going to get the spot once it is open is the best way to go about it.
So Alex, do you think he is still ends up in the class?
I do
Alex, how/why are you still working? You are as bad as UFM. It was a great deal of fun today. Thank you 11W Staff and community.
Alex is UFM
lol
I think Pope might be right. Do you have kids, Alex? If so, maybe you need to sign a contract with them, aka, UFM.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." Charlton Heston(1924-2008)
Makes sense, I feel really bad for the kid. I was excited for him to be a Buckeye (as excited as one can be for a punter). I hope it turns out well for him because he seems like a great kid with a bright future in whatever he ends up doing, punting or otherwise.
hmmm.... damn these sanctions!!!! hope this all works out the best for both parties, whichever it may be
I had similar thoughts, and I'm sure that if this is the case, then Urban assured him that he will have a scholarship for him if he waits (hence the statement from his Dad that the offer had not been pulled). I'm guessing Meyer told him to hang on and trust him if he wants to be a Buckeye.
It stinks for the kid to lose his moment in the sun, but I suppose he can still have his presser when he is able to sign his letter, if he is willing to wait a bit.
If true, it's a real demonstration on Johnny's part of of putting the team first.
This situation sucks. I hope we can work it out for him. I know I, for one, would be killing Miles, Saban or Kiffin if the chips fell this way for coaches I loathe.
I can only guess UFM thought he would pull "all" of those big fish.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
That makes sense butif Townsend's commitment was accepted unconditonally, it should have be honored. But again, it is only assumption on my part
This situation makes me feel really bad for Johnny if Alex's thoughts are correct. I really hope this doesn't leave him with a such a bad taste in his mouth that he starts shopping around for another school. You never like to see a kid forced to wait to commit especially one that has been a commit for so long . . .
Of course maybe it's something completely different and there is something else besides the OSU staff that is keeping him from signing. Guess we'll find out in due time.
He's probably looking at your playmakers that we signed and is thinking he might want to go to a team that will punt.
D. Anthony
If that were the case then he could have looked at IU or Kansas or Buffalo
Or, Vonn Bell would want to go to UT where he could invariably end up with more solo tackles
It was a joke...but he his leg will definitely not be over-used with what we have in offense.
D. Anthony
I feel for the kid as well but I can see a few more guys leaving due to not contributing I think he gets in I do hope he understands and still would like to be a buckeye. If he could be a walk on for yr then that would be great and I understand he shouldn't have too.
When someone shows you who they are believe them! In other words piss a good friend off and see what they really think about you.
If true, I think it's kind of a bush league move by Urban. I know it won't be popular, but I'm just being honest.
No, I agree with you. I think the guy has been committed here for some time. Not to say that neither side can't back out as it is non-binding but there is a certain level of professionalism on both sides that must be there.
But at the end of the day, Urban and Co. must know where they stand in terms of 82. They know what they need to do to get there
They may know what they need, but I really hope that doesn't involve pulling a scholarship from a guy who has been nothing but OSU for a long time. I love Urban, but I do not want to bring the SEC to the Big Ten in terms of this.
I understand your point but it could have also been that Urban and Co. had figured another player would have left by now and yet that person is still on the team. Everyone (including the 11w staff) has said there is likely 1 or 2 players that will be leaving and maybe Urban thought that person would already be gone, thus giving us one more spot. Now if you take Townsend you are at 83 and when that person leaves it would look like they were forced out by Urban and that IMO would look worse.
Seriously? I don't even think Urban thought he was going to get all three, Bell, Clark and Wilson, and then keep EzE, Johnson, and Munger.
Won't downvote ya bro, but I guess I'm in the minority disagreement with you. Feel bad for Townsend, but if he really wants to be a Buckeye, Urban will find a spot for him.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." Charlton Heston(1924-2008)
Well considering you're only supposed to downvote based on content, not if you disagree, that's probably a good idea. Plus one for you for being one of the few who understands what you should be doing! Vamos Bucks!
Woody - you don't know what you're talking about, and you're not privy to inside information...so you shouldn't be on here throwing U.F.M. & the coaching staff under the bus. Just stop with the clueless comments already.
Thanks to the 11w staff for everything today, excellent recruiting coverage.
Sure hope this kid makes it into the class. It seems like our honor as a program is at stake if what we think is happening is indeed the case. Hopefully it all works out and we have one hell of a kicker in this class!
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
If it is to prevent from oversigning I applaud loudly. As long as it doesn't mean that they are going to take away someone else's scholarship. I expect that there will be attrition in the off season, but I sure hope there isn't a situation where a kid is being forced out.
vacuuming sucks
I completely disagree. If they wanted to avoid over signing then someone who was not committed before today should not have been allowed to commit. I know we had a great haul today, but Townsend committed to us 6 months ago. We BAILED on him today. That's not a family, that's a pack of wolves.
So turn Bell down?
Yes. Unless this was a situation that they had already talked about where they knew of 1-2 players that were on the way out. The fact that attrition will likely occur is not a valid argument unless this conversation happened.
I'm with you Buck. If the staff is absolutely sure that there will be attrition and have been notified by the player, that's fine. But to have more than the limit and then hope that someone will leave is not fine, imo.
He is a great player but I would have turned him down....Sometimes it is more important to do the right thing and suffer some consequences.
If I had to pick someone to turn down, and I was UFM, I would have told Clark we're full.
You never turn down a 5*.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." Charlton Heston(1924-2008)
Robert Foster was turned down long ago. Derrick Green was told we were full as well.
I don't know who you turn down, whether it be Townsend, Bell, Clark or someone else, but it should've been figured out before Wednesday to give the odd man out enough time to figure out his future.
Love UFM but it bugs me if Townsend's scholly truly got yanked because someone "better" came along. Doesn't seem fair to the kid.
And now from the gray box, it seems like Townsend was calling the shots. So, um, never mind?
I really want to win, maybe at any cost, but deep down, you are right. The right thing to do is stick by a commitment.
I think there is legitimacy in both arguments, but I don't think it's ok to turn away Bell or Clarke either just cause they decided later. I mean Clarke didn't get his offer until less than a month ago. I think it is fair to give them the time to decide and it's not like he is holding that scholi for someone he is hoping will sign who is waiting to make a decision ala Neal from Arizona last year. He didn't decide about school for a few weeks after signing day.
I also understand that a kid who committed this past summer should still have his scholorship. That being said, Urban knows the kid better and probably has a better relationship and trust factor than he could ask of Bell or Clarke. I think he is doing the right thing ultimately. IF this secenario is indeed playing out between OSU and Johnny. Maybe there is something completely different going on as well. I mean maybe he really is starting to feel homesick or something already just thinking about going all the way to Ohio from Florida.
Either way, I think it was the right thing to tell the kid before he had his presser at his school. Not only would it be highly embarassing for the poor kid, it is even more embarassing for OSU as an institution. I think if this stuff is happening then it is being handled the correct way by the OSU staff.
"...they're midgits!"-Coach Kerry Coombs
I see your point Optimistic. If what we are speculating about is true and they are making Townsend wait then yes it feels dirty. We don't know what is going on exactly however. I am glad that the roster is not over 82 today.
vacuuming sucks
It's rampant speculation and that's why I'm really done talking about it beyond this because I don't think there's anywhere else left to go until we know.
For those who criticize this move, do you not take Bell!? He was the last to jumps board...
Clearly in perspective one can see the trade off that Meyer was having to make. The Bush league move would be to sign him anyway and then kick a kid off the team. At least Urban is not going to oversign ad therefore not bring the SEC negative stuff here.
If it means upholding integrity and honoring a promise you made to a high school kid, then yes, absolutely turn down Bell. Frankly, I think it's bullshit that people are just willing to cast aside whomever is most convenient to make room for a big-time recruit. Do you think it's a coincidence that the punter is the one who we're up in the air about?
Btw, I'm not saying that this is necessarily the situation, I'm just criticizing people who think this situation would be ok. If it is the situation, then I will have lost a bit of respect for our staff.
I fully trust Meyer is just telling he has to wait, but it's still there. NSD isn't the last day to sign, it's the first. He'll get in he he wants to wait. If he doesn't that is his choice. I see no Mickey Mouse stuff going on here, just shuffling to make it work.
You take Bell now and shuffle the least important recruit to get in when the spot opens. He'll get in and he loses nothing by waiting. I see no going back on anyone's word here...
That's the type of comment that makes me disappointed and furious.
"Least important recruit"
It just boils my blood to hear people talk like that.
Sorry, but every group of people can be listed and ranked, it's reality. There are always most important and least important positions/needs. There is no question why Townsend was the one to be delayed, it couldn't be more obvious. Doesn't make him any less of a person or player, just means he was the first to be affected by something like this. I'm sorry, but it's just an emotionless assessment of reality.
Steensn,
You are assuming Meyer had not spoken to Townsend about this situation before committing...
I am?
So, you would have a problem if Urban told townsend when he committed that if a numbers problem happened he would ask him to hold off until the roster spot opened (knowing that a couple of people were leaving after the year)?
I understand your point. It makes you feel weird inside if you really analyze it and are honest with yourself. However, I think by saying the kid who committed 6 months ago deserves over a kid who also was offered a scholorship like Clarke (only weeks ago) and telling him you cannot come to OSU anymore because you didn't tell us you were coming earlier. If you do that your sending a horrible message to recruits as well. A kid who really wants to play for OSU will commit to hold a spot, and then look around and pull out if he finds a place he actually likes better later on.
When you decide shouldn't matter in my opinion...The argument should be about offering scholorships to like 150 recruits. Taking the one who promised to come to OSU first is still shuffling priorties on recruits. Only now your discriminating against a kid because he couldn't see the obvious need to decide which school he was going to in the middle of football season or last summer.
btw, I am not accusing you of descriminating against people, I am just giving a devil's advocate type argument to you.
It's just a really crappy place to be for both parties. IF that is what is happening.
"...they're midgits!"-Coach Kerry Coombs
Not a wise choice of words on his part(least important), but Meyer has a job...to win games. I would be pissed/disappointed too if I was Townsend.
I find it really ironic that so many are crapping on Meyer now because of this. Just a few days ago, hell, a few hours ago, the same people ripping on him now were absolutely drooling over the thought of Bell committing to OSU over Tennessee and Alabama.
UFM just gave OSU what could possibly be one of the best, if not the best, recruiting classes in the history of the program. I don't think even UFM was expecting the success yesterday that was NSD.
We're couch potatoes and we're never happy, evidently. UFM can't please everybody.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." Charlton Heston(1924-2008)
What does "shuffle" mean?
I don't know, just a word I picked to represent the fact that Urban will try and figure it all out.
This gets exactly at the point I made below. Why "shuffle" the "least important recruit"? Of course that's going to offend lots of people, including me, because there's no getting around the fact that that's a broken promise. AND that's not the best move from the perspective of roster management. If you've made a promise, you DO have to push somebody out, and that somebody should be the guy least likely to contribute over what remains of his eligibility. Almost certainly that's a benchwarmer upperclassman. This guy should have been made aware of his status months ago, so that it's not a surprise to him. Scholarships are limited, he's not a contributor, and he's already had some of his college paid for.
Nobody is pushed out are they? His offer is still there he just has to wait to sign. No promise broken, unless his promise was to sign by noon NSD. I think people are loosing perspective that his is only the first day to sign, not the last.
yup. Honor and integrity. And like Woodyhayeshaymaker said, we don't know if this is necessarily the situation.
Damn Woody, you're a fool!
Come on and braid my hair...my-aye-eye haiiiirrr!
(R. Kelly)
I hope it all works out, and I think it will. Sounds like a good kid, and would be a real asset. Hate the politics/business side of major college football - its not without some rough moments.
However it shakes out, I hope we hear it clearly from Urban.
"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes
I assume this sticky situation is being handled with grace and integrity from the comments of his parents.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
Oops...darn phone
BammBamm is my dog, Riley is my 4 yr old daughter, and THE Ohio state Buckeyes complete the three most sacred loves I cherish
Good point! Seems like all are on the same side still... if it got shady on our side, I would doubt parents would go too far out of thieir way to cover that up.
BammBamm is my dog, Riley is my 4 yr old daughter, and THE Ohio state Buckeyes complete the three most sacred loves I cherish
The discussion that's taking place here is just one of the reasons I don't agree that "oversigning" is somehow eeeeeevil. Would "oversigning" by one seriously be an issue? When you accepted this kid's commitment, you promised him a scholarship for the 2013-2014 academic year. Now that's up in the air? First, normal attrition is likely to take care of this in due course. But let's say it doesn't, and we're approaching whatever the critical date is in the summer when the 2013 recruits start counting against the scholarship total. I haven't looked at the roster, but are you seriously telling me there isn't a rising senior benchwarmer who's had 3 years of scholarship and is extremely unlikely to contribute? That guy has had his chance. The commitment to him has been renewed 3 or 4 times. And this guy could have (and should have) been warned months ago that he's the first one off the island if there's an issue with too many scholarship offers. It's not impossible that Bell or Wilson or Clark or another prized recruit from this year is in that position three years from now. I fail to see how this is wrong/immoral/unfair/whatever.
OSU gives 4 year scholarships...
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
I'm not sure I understand what that means. Per NCAA athletic scholarships are one-year scholarships. This problem could be solved quite easily though. Many people get full rides to OSU for various reasons and their scholarships don't count toward the 82. Take the guy off the roster, give him a scholarship from the "Archie Griffin Fund For Academic Excellence" or something, and the problem is solved. Or are you suggesting that OSU makes a commitment to a 4-year 82-man roster spot?
WildBear, I'm speaking to only one part of your comment. What the NCAA requires & what OSU does are not the same thing. OSU offers 4 year scholarships to it's student athletes. The idea behind it is to let kids know that should they chose to come to OSU, they will have an opportunity to get a 4 year degree, not just a one year scholly that can be rescinded should they not be the athlete that it was thought they were. My understanding of how it works is that indeed, your last sentence is correct, although I cannot state that as fact. It's a sort of educational security if you will...OSU, Ttun, and various other schools in various conferences are doing this.
So, like I said, I was speaking to that one part of your comment, as I did not know if you were aware of this. I didn't have a lot of time when I wrote it, so I wrote a short sentence. I was not attempting to argue or discredit BTW..
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
If I sound incredulous (because I am), it's not at you or anyone else pointing out the rules by which B1G programs have to play. It's at the rules. I see absolutely no reason scholarship and roster spot have to be tied. Certainly any institution with a D1 football team can afford to put 100 non-football players on full scholarship every year, not to mention an institution the size of OSU. And I simply cannot fathom that there might be a rule against creating a scholarship fund to catch football players cut from the team, since that just sounds unnecessary and mean.
Got you & understood much better. I don't disagree necessarily but I have to wonder if what your proposing would ever come to fruition. I could see the NCAA coming in and putting a stop to it toot sweet with the explanation/reasoning being 'competitive fairness'.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
I actually think it would be hard for the NCAA to shut down, because they'd effectively be policing how universities grant scholarships to non-athlete students. Universities vary in how many students they can offer full rides, that's just a fact of life. Harvard can offer every single undergrad a full ride, OSU can't. And if availability of funds is the only concern, then it wouldn't be hard to get the boosters to establish a very generous scholarship program. Here, finally, would be a totally legit way to support the football program (giving it freedom to manage its roster) by throwing money at (former) football players.
So what I'm saying is that if the conference established this as the framework for scholarships to football players, I think it would be very hard for the NCAA to do anything about it. And it would actually be constructive.
Great points all - I would personally love to see a constructive solution to what happens to some of these kids.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
I agree with you here. Isn't Clark a 3.9 GPA student? Why can't he be put on a academic scholly to make room? Is there a NCAA rule saying he can't?
Here's the rub ... I believe that scholarship football players in the Big 10 have 4 years guaranteed, whether they are playing or sitting on the bench. Unless they are dismissed for a violation of the rules or medically restricted, I believe that they are entitled to stay. The decision is the player's to make - not Urban's. The best Urban can do is to point out that the kid may have a better shot of playing somewhere else, and hope that information is enough to entice the kid to move on - thus opening up a scholly.
In the SEC, the scholarships are only for 1 year. If a kid doesn't live up to his hype, the scholly is not renewed. That's how they can oversign.
Someone please feel free to correct me (gently) if I'm mistaken.
I certainly don't know the specifics of B1G rules, and I do know that they differ in some respects from other conferences. But what you're describing is a 4-year commitment to a roster spot, not to a scholarship. Give the guy an "ex-football player" scholarship and take him off the roster.
The big ten now allows 4 year scholarships and therefore OSU gives 4 years schollys.
Do you know exactly what this 4-year commitment entails? Is it a commitment to count you against the football scholarship limit for 4 years? The reason the scholarship limit exists is to prevent big name programs from hoarding all good recruits, not to force them to keep non-contributors on their rosters.
Nope, just know that it doesn't need to be renewed each year. I understand the scholly limit reason...
My guess is it is a roster spot because its a football scholarship ensured for 4 years. As long as the recruit doesn't do something to get kicked off the team I'm sure they take one of the 85 (82) scholarship spots.
If these are really the rules the B1G imposes on its football programs, all I have to say is the conference must have a death wish. I understand that it's potentially unfair to force a family to start paying for college after they received what is customarily a 4-year scholarship offer. But how is it unfair to cut non-performing players from the team?
I believe that the B1G just passed this rule (in last couple years) in response to over signing. I thought that Florida and a couple of other big time schools also have committed to the 4 year scholly. It's on the way in, not on the way out. So I don't think the B1G is gonna stop being competitive because of this.
I have nothing against guaranteeing a scholarship for 4 years. I think guaranteeing, or forcing to guarantee, a roster spot for 4 years only encourages things like forcing players to fake injuries to get grey shirts. Wouldn't it make more sense for the standard offer to be a guaranteed 4-year-or-however-long-your-eligibility-lasts-while-you're-on-the-roster scholarship and a one-year, renewable roster spot guarantee?
This is the most ridiculous comment ever. So you are telling me that a kid that puts in, ehem, 20 hours week in season, busts his ass all offseason in the weight room, stays in Columbus all summer long to condition, cracks heads during multiple grueling training camps, unselfishly leads the scout team to prepare the two deep offense and/or defense, keeps his grades, hosts and/or helps lure incoming recruits to Ohio State, does all of this for three years without incident, should be given a pink slip because he is stuck deep down on the depth chart? Seriously dude? That is right, moral, fair or whatever?
Are you consciously applying a euphemism for being fired to a student athlete? No, the kid should by no means lose his scholarship. Well, he should continue on a scholarship. Are you telling me that hard work should guarantee him a roster spot? This isn't the case in high school or even middle school, but that's how you want to manage the roster at a premier college football program?
I don't think it's possible to "just continue on scholarship." I don't think you can keep someone on scholarship if they're not on the team unless it's a medical issue. I'll have to do more research about this but that's my understanding. And yes, I think people are saying that hard work should continue to guarantee a scholarship spot. My argument would be not to sign someone in the first place if you doubt their ability.
As I said above, I completely agree that hard work should continue to guarantee a scholarship. And I know that it almost certainly isn't up to the OSU coaching staff to change the rules. But if the rules really say that you can't give a football player who's been cut from the team a different scholarship, then the rules must be written with the intention of punishing student athletes.
With the respect to the medical issue, are you sure this isn't a rule about maintaining eligibility, as opposed to maintaining a scholarship?
About the medical issue, as I understand you can get a medical hardship and get a scholarship from the school that does not count against the roster if you are done with football. But you have to be done with it, it's not a medical redshirt.
As for maintaining someone on scholarship without a roster spot, I think they don't allow it for the reason you mentioned above: all the big programs could just sign everyone and just cut them from the roster but not cut their scholarship (if they got someone better). That would give even more advantage to the bigger schools. And that is effectively what the big schools did in the past anyway.
And the NCAA just changed their by laws to allow a 4-year scholarship just in the past couple of years (maybe last year). B1G was behind it, and Florida and Auburn are offering the same. Bama, much of the SEC, and Texas all voted against even allowing 4year schollies just for the arguments you have been making. I personally favor the commitment but know that it's my opinion.
The NCAA certainly rules over athletics issues (until the major football programs quit the NCAA and form a new body that is), but how can they enforce whether the school gives a scholarship to an ex-athlete? I admit, I don't know these rules, and you may be right. But it sounds like it wouldn't be difficult to challenge in court, if it came to that. 4-year roster commitments sound like a bad idea because they discourage competitiveness. Once you've got the roster spot, a younger hungrier player can't replace you until you exhaust your eligibility. Who benefits from that?
Oh, and to your last point: if NFL teams routinely give giant contracts to the likes of JaMarcus Russell, is it really possible for college coaches to do better at evaluating the 4-year potential of a 17 yo football player?
That's a fair point about evaluation. As for allowing someone removed from the roster to continue to receive a scholarship, that may only change through legal action. I kinda like the process and think coaches just have to be really careful. But again, that's my opinion. I personally like that everyone is limited and that teams have to work with what they get. But I also hate trash-talking and NFL linebackers that dance after every tackle like they just cured cancer.
I'm all for being careful, but sadly being careful can also lead to the (hypothetical) situation Alex described in the OP. I have to agree with the opinion voiced above - if you're serious about competing for national championships, you can't pass on a Bell because you already promised that roster spot to a punter, no matter how good the punter is. Of course, part of the problem is that you have to guarantee a roster spot to recruits up front, before they've done anything in the program, while the only way to clear roster space is to cut players who've already contributed.
... speaking of which, why couldn't they have guaranteed the punter a red shirt?
Some people commenting are clearly not familiar with big time CFB. You dont turn down Bell bc you are one spot over the limit. Attrition will happen. Happens every offseason. I am sure there will be more than one who leaves. I am surprised Urbz didnt just let him sign honestly. Heck Bama is over by about 7 guys and A&M by God only knows how much. The fact is it is a part of college football now. It's not forcing kids out if you are certain that other kids will transfer.
Why are you guys even discussing this like it is a scholarship numbers issue and that is a fact? Read Alex's own words.
Plus, I don't care how good Alex is (he's pretty damn good, and I respect that), his "educated guess" directly contradicts the recruit's father's own words. Either Alex is wrong or the kid's dad is ignorant or a liar. I'll give pops the benefit of the doubt for now.
People around here seriously need to come back off the ledge every time they hear a rumor or educated guess, and show a little respect for 1) teenage kids/college players, 2) their families, and 3) their families.
At least wait until you actually know there was an oversigning issue.
It's a hypothetical, but it's a very interesting hypothetical. SEC schools do this all the time and, generally, bash in the heads of B1G schools. We have to deal with that reality somehow.
Well Timmon's coach said that his offer wasn't conditional and we pretty much know that was not true.
This is kind of my problem with people who freak out about oversigning all the time. What happened to this kid is no worse than what happens to kids who lose their schollie to make room for a better player. He signed months ago, Monday he was jacked to be a Buckeye, and no there's not a spot for him. So instead of "oversigning" this kid's kind of screwed until a schollie opens up and he can commit. It's the same thing as oversigning except this kid finds out on signing day that he doesn't have a scholarship to the school who offered him one months ago and that he accepted.
It is what it is, but honestly with this situation unfolding the way it has, I don't think any Ohio State fan can ever piss and moan about how the SEC treats their kids again.
He didn't sign months ago, and you have no idea what happened (just like us all).
Sorry, VERBALLED months ago! I don't know what happened, but I can use common sense. Been committed for months, and just 2 days ago was pumped about being a Buckeye. Mysteriously on signing day his LOI never comes in, and there's a "family issue."
Common sense tells me that "certainly not fact" means that it is CERTAINLY NOT A FACT.
And by the way, even if there was a mistake with one scholarship, that doesn't equate to signing 145 players over a five year period.
I'm with BTA on this one. This has been a VERY sudden change, and I don't believe for one second this is about family issues.
Verballed or not, this is nothing like the practice of pushing a guy who's been with the program for a year or more off the team to make room for a new guy. It's unfortunate, and I'm sure Townsend is a little hurt/miffed, but if OSU doesn't work out, he's still got a great college football career ahead of him somewhere else. Not so with guys who are forced out of the big oversigning SEC programs.
See, that's not the norm in oversigning though. Those are the horror stories that oversigning.com uses. A lot of times they take on LOI's because they know there will be attrition because there is always attrition. Sometimes, they use grayshirts. Ohio State did that with Cardale. We can call it what we want, but it was oversigning. Fact of the matter is, very few kids have come out and made a stink about how they were treated by Bama and LSU, and there is never outrage over Sunbelt teams that oversign.
There are some unfortunate circumstances in oversigning, but kicking someone out of the dorm the night before school starts was a 1 time example and people talk like that's how oversigning happens everywhere all the time. It's not.
How many years could Ohio State have taken on an extra 3 or 4 recruits in a class, who would of received a schollie because of attrition? That's why, to me, oversigning isn't that big of a deal MOST of the time. It's not always just wrong end of story. A lot of the time it's completely harmless.
Pretty sure SEC pretty horribly dicks over their student athletes more brutally than pushing back an acceptance of a recruit's LOI. This recruit now has the option to investigate other options(even if it is a shortened time period) or can decide to wait for the spot to open up. Is it a good way to treat him? Of course not... But to say that it is the same.... Just go look at how Bama makes oversigning work so well... THAT is an awful way to treat a student athlete. Not even in the same league, be sensible.
Well, since we don't know what the hell is being said between the staff and the Townsends, I guess all we can do is hope that our staff is dealing with the situation in an honest manner and have been open and honest with Johnny as they began to see any complications with his recruitment. I'm glad people on this board and talking about this. It shows that the Buckeye Nation has a sense of ethics.
This situation is definitely a numbers issue (definitely is 2 days ago the kid was pumped to be a Buckeye), and that's why I think oversigning isn't that bad. We know of the few horror stories where kids are booted out of a program and think the whole practice is immoral, but to me it's more immoral to let a kid think he has a schollie till signing day morning then saying ehhhhh we have a little problem. If the B1G allowed oversigning, then this wouldn't be an issue. His LOI would be accepted, when someone does leave or do something stupid to get in trouble and thrown off the team (stupid shit happens to at least 1 kid every year) then there's Townsend's schollie. Bottom line, 1 will open up, why not have another kid on board and waiting for it.
He shouldn't have to wait for someone to screw up to open up a spot. What if by last August no one leaves and no one is kicked off? How is the kid supposed to make college plans?
What if Urban just needs confirmation of something he already knows? Lots of what ifs on something we know nothing but conjecture and guesses. I think he'll be in, he just has to wait. He can't wait till August to sign, there is an end date to the signing period so kids don't end up waiting till August.
I have no doubt that Meyer sticks to the commitment he made and, if he wants the spot, the kid can have it before beginning of class next year. What I'm saying is that a system that forces Meyer to put the kid in this kind of limbo in order to achieve "fairness" or "protect student athletes" or whatever is stupid. A system where you're guaranteed a scholarship but not a roster spot would be much better. This is obvioulsy not up to the coaching staff, but it might be up to the conference.
We will lose at least one though. It happens every year. Someone will decide after spring practice this isn't for them and take off, or someone will have grade trouble, or someone will shoot people with a pellet gun from their dorm room, or piss in public and run from the cops. It happens every year.
Couldn't agree more with Alex's analysis....that's the same conclusion I came to after reading the Orlando Sentinel article. I'm assuming/hoping he'll be in...bc we need a Punter/Kicker.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
After reading Alex's explanation, which is logical, I was hurt for the recruit. I know it was a waiting game for Clark, Wilson, and Bell. If OSU got 1 or 2, there would be no problem, but luckily we got all 3. I wonder who would have been the second recruit out if Taivon had selected the Bucks? I want Townsend in this class because I truly believe he wants to be a Buckeye and he was given an offer.
Whatever the reason or issue, it sucks for Townsend. I hope he still is able to join this class.
If what Alex said is the real situation, there's really nothing to worry about here for either Urban or Townsend, and I would bet that Johnny and family fully understand that.
Urban simply doesn't want to oversign, which is awesome. That said, the odds of another scholarship not opening up between now and next fall are about slim to none.
Just reflecting on the last ten years or so, I'd guess the average attrition rate during the Tressel years was at least 4-5 per year. And Tressel was a coach we ALL know absolutely would never run a kid off that wasn't good enough on the field.
You don' think there is a problem with accepting a verbal committment, and then telling a kid to wait? To me, that is just wrong.
we are talking about a scholarship for a punter which doesn't happen a whole lot. Typically they are preferred walk-ons or just straight up walk-ons.
And the suggestion above about having Munger hold off instead of Townsend, Seriously? Townsend might have more opportunity than Munger has. Financially he might be better off so he really doesn't need the scholarship where as Munger might need it. We don't know the whole story so to suggest why not just throw the weakest link off is not the thought process to encourage. Munger has earned his offer and should not be singled out like that as well as any other of the recruits.
I'm sure there is a reason beyond just simple oversigning and telling Townsend sorry no room. I know what Alex is saying and that is not it. He is saying that with Townsend there is other opportunities that can be looked at and since there was more recruits signed than anticipated, all options are being looked at. Again, just because today is NSD doesn't mean all recruits must be signed by today! There is still time to work this out!
Why speculate on what is going on when really we have no idea...if his dad says the commit is still there....take him at his word.
Why do we speculate about everything going on at other programs when we don't know what's going on. If this same situation was going on somewhere else, people would be having a field day with it here. Because it's us though, we save our outrage until the facts come out.
From the Orlando Sentinel:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/blogs/recruiting/os-status-on-hold-for-ohio-state-commit-johnny-townsend-20130206,0,1693457.post
Nick Saban thinks this is cute.
"Did you push yourself to be great today? If you didn't do it you lost a day. We ain't got many days to lose. We're going to push your a$$ like its never been pushed because what you've got in you were going to find out" UFM
Maybe when Urban originally offered Townsend the scholly, it came with this caveat. I don't know. Only Urban, the coaching staff, and the Townsend family know. Just throwing it out there.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
This! ^
Right on Bucks 43201, that is why JT's press conf. was originally scheduled for 1 hr. and 55 mins. after Bell's. Bell went OSU and JT immediately reschedules presser for 4PM, and then cancels altogether. Like it or not this was scripted from the start.
swing & a miss
All I know is, if hadn't putzed around this morning and sent it in when Bosa did, he wouldn't have this issue would he. Early Bird gets the worm
"Statistics always remind me of a fellow who drowned in a river where the average depth was only three feet." - Coach Woody Hayes
You may or may not be right depending on the notion that the staff may or may not have put a hold on him sending it in at all due to the numbers situation. However, if you're right & it was a simple matter of him needing to get up a bit earlier then....
I imagine he's kicking himself right now.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Exactly - I'm not sure faxing a signed letter puts a binding obligation on the coaching staff. In fact, he probably has the letter in hand now. In that case he could fax it now and it would be binding. I'm guessing the coaches have to sign something on their end, and they sign AFTER getting the signed letter from the recruit.
Do you actually know that, or are you just making that up?
i'm just so sick of all the punters,kickers,and long snappers,being sooo disrespected like this. This is just another sad and pathetic case of THE MAN holding us all down.SO sad.This coming from an institution that once cheerished our very own Tom Skladany(:Sad day.
WWTD(what would tress do)
knucklehead
Punt on 2nd down to pin them at their 2 yard line good and hard?
He's got the intangibles, gets the ball of quick, and can boot it far. I don't need to preach to anyone here about how field position is always a good battle to win. Let's hope they can work out whatever this is and we can have a punter that averages around 50 yards a punt for the next four years. But I guess only time will tell us what's really going on now.
Since we don't know the specifics, let's just trust the staff to make it work and hope that this situation comes to a satisfying end, even though it may not happen today.
how come he's gettin compared with Bosa and not Clark?Oh I get! Bosa must be the clean cut,up with the birds(white boi)and Townsends the Hooligan white boy out till all hours hanin wit his boooyz.
from,the whispers i'm hearing is the town where Townesd is from,only has(1)fax machine,and with many a fonzy bumps,well the ole machine,just wasn't working. And now you want to take away saturday mail delivery from the Townsend family.
thats all i got to say about that.
knucklehead
Huh?
OSU4LIFE is that you?
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
Hasn't 11W been saying that we have space to sign 25 players in this class? I've seen the math done several times on this site, and with already available scholarships, dismissals, transfers, and medical hardships, we were supposed to be able to sign 25. We are now at 24, so if the 25 is the correct number, then there is room for Townsend and he really is having second thoughts about being a Buckeye, for whatever reason. The question is, do we really have room for 25 in this class?
11W staff stated multiple times today that Elliott brought the total number of scholarship commitments to 82, the current limit.
Wildbear
I read the post by Alex, I'm aware that he said we are at 82 now. Either 11W has the current count of 82 wrong, or they were wrong about having room for 25 players in this class, or Townsend is reconsidering. As of this weekend, there was supposed to be room for 25. Wilson brought the count to 24 on Monday. We signed two new players (Bell and Clark) today, which would have put us at 26, but we lost Taivon Jacobs and Townsend hasn't sent in a LOI, which puts us at 24 players who have signed LOIs. According to earlier estimates from this site, that leaves room for one more player, which means that either Townsend really is having second thoughts about Ohio St, or 11W got the math wrong at some point.
Hey " Wildbear" - did you ever make it over to the Don Scott observation tower to see if any coaches flew in?!? I love you, man
Oh no, did you wait for me to show up? I wasn't actually serious about that. Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead you! Hope you enjoyed the tower though.
I hate to see this happen but if he doesn't get in this class we have Frank E who is a good punter in his own right and he is very athletic. With the depth at wideout it will be very hard for Frank E to see the field. I would love him at punter
We don't know what the deal is.
Even if it's a space issue, though, what if the Buckeyes had struck out on the final three studs (Wilson, Clark, Bell), along with Jacobs switching, and Townsend had signed today, and now stood at 22 signees for 2013? Wouldn't some of those complaining about this (possible) ethical breach be hammering the staff tonight for letting themselves get caught shorthanded, leaving schollies on the table?
If we're going to applaud Urbz for playing the high stakes, down-to-the-wire recruiting game - which is maybe what it takes to get some of the premium studs and thus challenge the SEC elite - then is it realistic (or consistent) for us to expect the staff to never play chicken with the numbers and/or always have a nice neat solution to every contingency?
Good Post....I trust this staff and although it may suck to lose a punter of this caliber I think they know what they are doing more than we do.
Fido's post says it all and Townsend was left holding the bag. Had our staff bet the college fund AND the mortgage then Townsend would be left without a scholarship rather than what he is looking at now, which is (merely??) having to wait to sign his LOI.
For those thinking it's because Townsend woke up late .... really????
And for those shouting out it's because we are so ethical about oversigning .... really???
Fido nailed it ... it is high stakes, white knuckle gamesmanship and Mr. Meyer is great at it.
Townsend got hosed because he is a punter.
Stop sugar coating it ... it is cheezy from where he sits.
Sugar coating???? The only thing anyone has heard (Ohio State can't comment)....is the family that has not said anything of the sort.
I find the idea of wait and let all the facts come out before jumping to conclusions when no one (exept Ohio State and the family) knows the real truth to the matter...all the stuff in this thread is pure speculation on the matter.
True that it is all speculation ... and the speculation has ranged from that he was offerred a gray shirt to that he didn't wake up fast enough.
So are we to 'speculate' then that had Townsend woken up earlier then the next latest waker had to wait past NLOID??
We signed guys we weren't expecting to. That is great. Our staff was great.
The seamy underbelly of exceeding expectations is that we required a loyal commit to forego what appears to be a rewarding right of passage for high school stars.
It sucks for the kid. Don't sugarcoat it.
Like I said...don't think anyone is sugar coating anything...but the ones jumping on the staff on it that don't the whole story is ridiculous.....if it comes out that his offer was pulled...then at that point I have no problem with people being upset...but being upset and not knowing the story is ridiculous.
And I think we do know the main gist of the story. We did better than we had anticipated, and the punter was told to wait to sign his LOI. Just cause we're not privy to the nitty gritty doesn't mean we are morons.
Agree that pulling an offer based on signing commits we didn't anticipate would be low rent and unconscionable.
And will reassert that making a loyal commit wait to sign is cheezy, if not world ending.
My last post on it....seeing all we are doing is arguing....once again...you can speculate all you want gut the fact of the matter is.....you and I do not know anything that has happened in this situation....we have no idea what the Townsends and Ohio State have or haven't talked about....its all speculation...and I'm certain you know no more than I do on it.....my intentions is not to argue all I'm saying is wait until everything is known before people start pounding Meyer.
I don't have ANY inside information, although I have observed the recruiting process for many years.
And I am not pounding Urban Meyer. Fido and others have pointed out that it's high stakes poker. Meyer is great but not perfect at playing the poker. He is less sleazy than some, but he definitely lives in that world, and in this case it appears as if an unfortunate numbers crunch denied Johnny Townsend a fun day that he, by nearly any stretch of the imagination, was not responsible for.
swing & a miss 2
It's one thing to pull a scholarship offer when you feel the class is too full. Coaches do that all the time. It's entirely another thing to pull an offer AFTER someone has committed.
Good thing no offer was pulled...
Woody...do you know this tor a FACT? I don't think you do.
Good post.
Again, playing the guessing game here, but it has to suck for Townsend and his family today. I hope that this is cleared up in the very near future.
vacuuming sucks
I'd be less upset about the 5th best recruiting class at 22 scholarships (which means they would still be available) than I would be about pulling a kid who is excited about playing for Ohio state and whom we told would be a buckeye.
No one their scholarship pulled. We are only talking about when he can sign.
A scholarship offer was accepted verbally by Townsend. Now it seems it was pulled by Meyer, and here's why I think that's accurate:
I think that the scholarship doesn't count against our limit until fall...and if that's the case, then why not let him sign now? I think the reason is that there MAY not be another scholarsip available if no one leaves.
We all think it's likely someone does, so if they didn't pull his scholarship offer, as you say, then why else not let him sign right now?
If the scholarship was completely pulled, then there is no decision to make on OSU, it's done. There is a much stronger likelyhood that he was told to hold off and therefore not pulled but his singing day delayed until Meyer can get it all figured out. Or else there would be no decision to be had.
Thre reason he doesn't take him is because it is oversigning. If no one does then Meyer has to do what we all complain about, greyshirt a guy who you promised a full ride to. Signing him would be SEC tactics, at least now he still has a chance to sign somewhere else if he doesn't want to wait. Meyer seems to be up front with the kid and his family before he is locked in and has no other choice. If he signs now he has to sign it knowing he might have to grey shirt. Why take that risk wjhen you dont HAVE to sign for months.
The smart thing is to wait a bit on his part. He probably was offered to sign with the risk of greyshirt but why take the risk if you can wait. Facts are, that recruits feel a need to committ early and sign the first day when that is not the case at all. They have months to sign and he still has offers for many schools. He and his family are wise to hold off if this is the case if he really wants to go to OSU. Meyer will make it work and NOTHING is lost by waiting a bit. No promises broken, no lost planning.
I understand what you're saying about not wanting to force a greyshirt, but I think that's beside the point. Most high school seniors, multi-scholarship-offer athletes and "regular" kids, want to decide where they're going shortly after they find out where they got in and what the financial-aid situation looks like. Being forced to wait an unknown number of months IS losing something. A bird in the hand... There is definite value to having the confirmed schoarship RIGHT NOW, as opposed to having to play a waiting game.
By making him wait, they are temporarily pulling the scholarship. Pulling doesn't have mean permamnent. One can pull and one can push (re-offer), and one can do one and then the other. Every man knows this....intimately. ;) You've created permanency in "pull" where there is none.
And btw, the Ohio State value proposition is not so much better than that offered by Florida. Academics are similar, programs are similar strength. Yes, I'd rather have Urban, but I'll bet Florida competes for SEC and national titles in the next few years as well (look at their recruiting classes). Plus the weather's better and I'd even bet the average woman is more attractive, haha. Add to that a (speculated) scholarship agreement RIGHT NOW, and you see that there was value in our offer that delaying it has diminished.
If he has similar or better options, than there is no loss. If he wants OSU he will get in I have no doubt. He has lost no promise if he allowed to get in in a week or month or two. If he doesn't want to wait he doesn't have to...
I am on the "this is a bunch of crap" bus (assuming Ohio state really did tell him to hold off). If you accept a kids offer, you can't just pull it 6 months later. That's 6 months that he assumes his college plans are set. If you think better kids might be available, then don't give him a commitable offer. If you want other guys (like bell, who looks awesome) , then they should be the ones who have to wait to see if a spot opens up. Ohio states integrity is more important than one safety.
I hope they didn't do that to this kid. I think we have to wait and see about what actually happened. I agree with you though if they took this kids scholarship and gave it to another they are completely wrong. I kind of trust that the staff didnt do that. Maybe Im wrong.
I trust they didn't do that as well. It's true that we really don't know what's going on here, but I hope we figure it out soon.
No offer was even suggested of being pulled...
This may be a stupid question to some of you, but can someone give me a list of the situations where a player can be on scholarship and not be counted against the roster? Also what exactly is a "grey shirt"? Thanks.
A grayshirt means the kid will count against next year's scholarships. Typically reserved for a kid who needs to spend a year getting his academics in order. See Cardale Jones for a recent example.
vacuuming sucks
This is a Gray shirt. LOL sorry, i couldn't resist
I shouldn't find this funny because it's pretty lame, but I do.
Dang. Not happy about this.
I really want to hear why/how this happened. We really *need* a good punter next year.
Of course they are. There is blood in the water.
vacuuming sucks
Gotta wonder if Florida came thorugh with a late offer after missing on some targets they had thought theyd get? Chance to stay closer to home big draw for him possibly,
Favorite Buckeye: Obviously BJ Mullens
That had a spot for Clark. We just traded a WR for a punter
Look on the bright side......... Had Jacobs signed early this morning the situation would be twice as bad! Then Clark is probably the odd man out, but wait, there was no guarantee that EZE was still 100% Buckeye or that Bell wasn't going to Tenn. Man this recruiting thing can be stressful. It will all work out in the end.
Alex or other 11W staff, do you know if there is anyone currently waiting on a medical waiver?
On a side note, what's everyones thoughts now about Gibson not being a Buckeye. Personally I think he was a high risk as far as academics go and we may end up being better off with Clark. That dude can scoot!
I think that Clark and Gibson are pretty much a wash on the field, but Gibson might have had trouble maintaining eligibility, even if he had managed to qualify for enrollment.
I think that we are looking at a case of parents wanting their kid to go to college closer to home, which is why Alabama and Florida have been mentioned today. I think that is the family issue that the high school AD was talking about. Townsend probably wants to be a Buckeye, but his parents want him stay be relatively close to home. Despite what Alex said about reaching 82, I have a feeling that he didn't include a medical hardship or pending transfer in that number. Going by the numbers this site has used until today, there should be one scholarship available for Townsend. 24 sent in LOIs today, and there was supposed to room (possible counting on a player known to be leaving the program who hasn't left yet) for 25.
If you accept a player's verbal, that should be an implied contract of a firm LOI there for you in February. Asking Townsend to wait now on the grounds that "there's bound to be attrition," and because frankly, there have been more recent elite commits at more important positions, doesn't sit well with me.
Let's be real, if a SEC school was doing this, we'd all be screaming about oversigning (sure, we're bound to have medical waivers between now and September, but one team's "legit medical waiver" is another team's "oversigning casualty"), or at the very least broken promises.
This is even leaving aside my suspicion that the Taivon Jacobs "decommit" was actually closer to the staff gently asking him if he wanted to look again at his other options after we landed Wilson. Think about it: what would we have done today had Jacobs never decommitted? Said no to Clark? Given how we asked Townsend to please hold off because of our recent good luck, I can't see us having done that simply because Jacobs said yes to us first.
Reading around this site today, I can tell some fans are perfectly OK with how this situation has played out, on the grounds that "you'd rather have a 4-star safety than a punter" even if the mutual commitment between punter and school came months ago; or saying stuff like "If he really wants to be a Buckeye, he should be willing to wait," as if you'd be just fine with having to wait if it was your son this was happening to. Call me naive, but I thought OSU was better than this. Our moral authority to rip the SEC has taken a hit.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
What made you think OSU was better than this? Hiring an SEC coach? Reports of paying players? Tatgate? People won't like to hear it, but these things don't really surprise me a whole lot. I like to think that what you suggest isn't the case, but if it is, what can we really do about it?
Respectfully I-8, I'd like to think OSU is better than this. As to your points: We hired a good coach, not an SEC coach. A coach who reportedly did not like many of the things he saw in that conference, and left. Very importantly, a coach who by all accounts, never oversigned while in the SEC. Certainly your not suggesting having coached in the SEC = Dirty, right?
After Tatgate, OSU now has the largest in house compliance dept in the country. So yes, that happened. Obviously the school is not looking to repeat...
Reports of paying players? In what fashion? Overpaying for summer jobs? I imagine that happens. But it happens all over. Boosters hook kids up in just about every school with a big program out there... I honestly don't know of any other reports of paying players, except things that happened years back.
My point is, yes, I would like to think OSU is above certain things...I am not naive, I know it's not a perfect school or program - but I do like to believe it is basically a clean program & that this particular situation will get sorted out & made right, without scholarships being pulled or kids being forced off the team.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
If you think the program was clean when Clarett was here, that's as naive as it gets.
Woodhayeshaymaker - Did you read my comment at all? Did I mention anything about Clarett? Did I say anything about OSU always having a clean program? I asked an honest question of another poster, one I respect at that. I said after Tatgate, OSU has the largest compliance dept. I'm not at all blind to the ways of CFB & I am well aware of what OSU has done in the past. I am talking about players not being paid in more recent history (since Tatgate), maybe I should have been clearer on that. I also was not trying to argue anything other than that having a coach from the SEC does not equate to shady tactics & that yes, I would like to think that Ohio State would be better than what looks to be going on...
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Telling somebody to wait isn't pulling a scholarship...
It's essentially the same thing, you're playing with semantics.
No, pulling means it is OVER, DONE, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. To say wait means, let's figure this out, we WANT YOU, but we have to make some changes.
There is a DIFFERENCE between those two things. You pull an offer on a kid you are telling we are not ever going to take you. You explain the situation and say hold off to a kid you need to work some things out first before he signs. No semantics, two different situations.
We don't even know all of the facts yet about what is going on. Quite a few are "assuming" that it's due to oversigning and telling Townsend to wait. There's rumors out there that his parents wanted him to stay closer to home. We have absolutely 0 facts, so why don't we all be patient and let this play out before we throw stones at our staff and accuse them of things that may not even be true.
Posted in skully:
Who knows maybe it is a personal issue? Especially with hometown Florida now in the mix. All I know this is a very strange development and I'll do my best to get on top of it. Really wanted Johnny in this class.
We all definently want him, he is a fantastic kicker and we need one.
Alex,
Did Meyer speak to Johnny about this situation before yesterday?
I think Alex was right to begin with (nice call). I know a lot of people think Urban was wrong for playing this way, but with limited scholarships and the vast needs how else could he do it? He was surprised that they got the 3 big targets and suddenly he had an issue. I find it interesting that some start talking about not "being like the SEC" yet expect OSU to win National Titles. Sorry to say it but it takes a bit of that SEC attitude to compete at that level. Now if Urban does his best to try to still fit this kid in then he is doing the right thing - which he should. This is big time business and anyone that pretends differently has their head in the sand.
Since we are playing the guessing game here it is. Urban did not expect to land all three studs on signing day but did. Now lets say Urban knows of someone ready to leave the program within a week or two which is why he knew he could make all the offers he did. Now, the punter is told the situation, that he will need to wait a week or few to sign his letter so that the program does not "oversign". The family just wants to be certain this will all work out and is concerned so they are reviewing their options after new offers came in. Who wouldn't? All the while the staff is trying to explain to them how this will work. As someone said above, this is a full ride for a punter which doesn't happen often. He was undoubtedly told in advance of this possibility. This is just another guess like the many already here. I have faith that this staff will do whatever necessary to take care of JT and his scholarship.
Like I said...the kid and his parents said the offer was still there...I'll trust them over internet speculation every day of the week.....found this in an article......
As for whether some outside punting help may be coming, Meyer said: “It’s just a complicated thing right now. It’s a concern.”
So could Townsend still come aboard? Or is the Class of 2013 complete?
“Maybe,” Meyer said with a smile.
I commented earlier in this thread and haven't been able to wade through all the comments, but I think Townsend ends up in the class and everyone involved will be happy with the end result, if not the process.
My take is that when Urban saw the dominos falling beyond his expectations, he contacted the family and explained that they would have a scholarship for him, but it was just a matter of timing, and asked him to hold his LOI until a spot opened up. Obviously that would cause some concern with the family, but I have a hard time believing that Urban was not upfront with them when he saw the signings piling up.
Recruiting is about relationships, and I think the staff's relationship with Johnny and his family is why he hasn't flipped. They are taking Urban at his word that a spot will materialize, and then he will sign with the Buckeyes.
Yeah, it looks bad on Meyer and OSU for now, and is certainly a disappointment for Townsend, but I think it ends well.
A few of you have stated that Townsend should have a spot because he gave a verbal 6 months ago. Recruiting can be brutal and I believe you get your spot when you sign on the line. What about the kid that commits months before NLOI day and the day comes to sign and he flips at the last moment, leaving the staff high n dry?? Like someone posted earlier, how would folks have felt if Urban struck out on Bell, Wilson & Clark? We'd be casting stones because he didn't offer more kids or he put all the eggs in one basket. It will all work out in the end & Townsend will eventually be a Buckeye!
Kids who flip at the last minute get a lot more criticism from Joe Fan than Urban and company have gotten in this thread.
But this brings up a related point: is there really any basis now for criticizing the kids who flip, when you have cases like Dontre Wilson, who was apparently told by Chip Kelly that he was staying at Oregon less than a day before he packed his bags for Philly; or cases like Townsend's, where the scholarship offer from OSU apparently came with attached strings he wasn't aware of?
Everyone is looking out for themselves, which is cool. But it makes all the "family" talk seem a little hollow.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
At the end of the day, take Vonn Bell/James Clark/Dontre Wilson over a punter. Nothing personal.
Rumor is that Townsend's offer has been the same all along, that he wouldn't get a scholarship until one opened up from a transfer, so the OSU staff has been apparently consistent in that regard.
I guess what changed is Florida offering an open scholly and that made him and the family re-evaluate.
I think you nailed this. I just read a similar thought on Scout.com from Nevada.
shortbus20
I saw on twitter, probably originally from scout though.
Who is this rumor from?
If this is the way things went down there can be no ill feelings from either the Townsend family or our fanbase (and I hope this is the case), however I am in the honor the promise to the player camp.
BamBamBuck
so it looks like "BUCKS43201" nailed it:
yes. I did.
Thanks for noticing.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
If Johnny Puntball doesn't sign with OSU, I have been intrigued by other prospects. It's a slow day, following a great day, so here are my 2 intriguing options (note I didn't say BEST options): Marshall and Epi. Both were punters in high school for their respective teams. Both would represent a fantastic wrinkle in that you could never be safe of the opportunity for a fake punt. Now, I'm not sure I want to expose Jalin to a free shot of oncoming punt rushers, so I discard him from this rant. Epi, on the other hand, is a different story. He is a WR by trade; no offense, but I don't think he will be seeing the field much in his tenure at OSU due to the 4 studs that are arriving in the fall. Him being a WR though does open up some opportunitites aforementioned. I heard he was an All-Ohio punter, but I haven't researched that. I freely admit, I'm not a big player in the 'Ohio punt scene.' Just a thought.
“You have to make decisions, ... I've never pretended that every decision I've made was right. And I've been reminded of that.”
- James Patrick Tressel
Great call. Epi went to my HS so I followed their games fairly closely. Not sure if he was all-Ohio, but I think he averaged something like 42 yards a punt. With some coaching, that could come up a few yards for sure. Plus, the guy is a great athlete, and it doesn't hurt to have WR hands back there (see: Hagerup, Will, 2011).
the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS
Johnny Puntball...lol. Can we also officially call this PuntGate?
Lot of sanctimony in this thread. I guess we can add recruiting classes to the list with laws and sausages as things you don't want to watch get made if you want to enjoy the finished product.
I remember there were rumors of Adam Griffin giving up his scholarship and paying his way when the scholarship reductions were announced. Could this be a year where we could get Townsend by asking Adam and Archie to pay their way?
looks like he's going to Florida....and my thinkign was along the right lines and I think circumstances may have changed with UF being able to offer a full ride at this moment (being the key phrase)
Total bummer, but I can't fault him.
Scholarship loss impact right there...
Too bad, Alex. So do you expect the punting situation to be an adventure this season?
Townsend no longer listed under OSU commits on Rivals.com
“You have to make decisions, ... I've never pretended that every decision I've made was right. And I've been reminded of that.”
- James Patrick Tressel
There is too much speculation in this thread and a lot of assumptions. Until evidence to the contrary I think we should give the staff the benefit of the doubt. If Townsend was being wronged do you really think his family would be quiet about it? Especially in parts of Florida where anti-Urban sentiment may be strong. Cough,"Bianchi", Cough
"It all goes so fast, and character makes the difference when it's close."
Jesse Owens
I don't think Townsend was being wronged. I think he knew what the situation was the whole time and that he had a full ride if there was a spot for him come NSD and if there wasn't he'd have to wait until another defection happened.
I actually got tipped off a week or so ago that Townsend may be a "grayshirt" candidate, and while I don't think that was the case, I think his offer, since he accepted it, was conditional upon there being one open for him.
I think the staff is 99% certain there would be one open for him, but when another program, make that your hometown program that you grew up rooting for, comes along on NSD morning and says they have room for a full ride for you guaranteed and all OSU can say is we're pretty sure it's there but can't guarantee it, what would you choose?
You want to land Bell, Clark, AND Wilson? This is the price we unfortunately had to pay in not being able to GUARANTEE a spot.
Wasn't OSU oversigned on NSD last year? Why all of a sudden this year is the staff waiting to offer to stay at 82?
If this is the case, I assume the staff was aware of players planning to transfer, i.e., "We can sign a couple extra because Players X, Y, and Z are transferring after the quarter." Oversigning by one or two is only problematic when the coaches don't have any leads on guys leaving, which may be the case here. Also, last year we weren't under the crazy microscope we are this year: Urbs may have been news, but we weren't supposed to pull in a top-five class after losing half our games.
But, again, every member of the 11W staff has for the most part guaranteed some kind of attrition, be it transferring or otherwise.
Well, they may not be counting it until it actually happens. If that's the case, I believe it's the right thing to do.
I get it, that's fine, but it didn't "actually happen" until AFTER signing day last year. I'm asking why the change this year?
I agree with this. The lack of ire from Townsend and his family seems to indicate they knew something like this was a possibility but thought it wouldn't come to fruition. It also might explain why he wasn't going to sign until noon, when most of the other recruits had already faxed in their letters, and canceled the 4 p.m. decision after Zeke reaffirmed his commitment.
What is your evidence for suggesting that Townsend knew the whole time?
I can't imagine being in the position of rooting for Bell or other last day signees to go elsewhere. That essentially is what Townsend was faced with on the last day. What a strange situation to be in.
Townsend just signed with Florida.
Well I guess that ends this 215+ comment thread on a...PUNTER. No 4.58/40 punter this year.
Well then. Hope Basil can punt.
vacuuming sucks
May be the beginning of a great story about a walk-on punter that averages 42 yards per punt in 2013. You just never know. It will work out. We haven't been used to a great punter for a while and someone capable will be found. Alex saying they could have known of the possiblity was undoubtedly correct as this isn't Urbans first rodeo. He knows a punter could be left out when operating under scholarship reductions and would have kept the Townsends informed. A full ride for a punter is a head scratcher anyway IMO, especially under the circumstances.
It's a Punter. I would take Bell, Wilson and Clark over a punter any day. Sucks it had to happen that way but I'm sure there will be a punter in the next class. If we're sitting here a year from now saying man we could have really used that punter then we'll have had big problems!
WOODYHAYESHAYMAKER -
You should think first before accusing Meyer with your foolish posts. Just some free advice. Seems like you're just commenting based on emotional reaction.
It's a very confusing situation, this makes more sense than him just flipping at the last second though.