...Notre Dame and Texas. These two football giants are the two Delany targeted at the outset of the expansion extravaganza; sorry, Nebraska, we like you in the B1G, but you were not the original target. Rutgers and Maryland are mere selling points for these two powers, not because they add anything of substance on the competitive playing field but rather because of increased access to critical east coast markets. No way Delany retires with his final accomplishment being the addition of Rutgers and Maryland. He retires because he accompished his original goal: add important recruiting grounds, increase network value, and compete against what is shaping up to be 7-straight national title winner SEC... in short, add Texas and Notre Dame to the B1G fold. This is Delany's end game. Rutgers and Maryland are part of that end game.
PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
•Football Schedule•Basketball Schedule•Forum•About•Contact
11W Poll
Buckshots
Buckshots Block
-
Ohio State Men's Tennis Season Ends in Heartbreaker
Fifth-ranked Buckeyes lose 4-3 to No. 1 UCLA in national semifinals.
-
One Year In and Ohio State Fans are Already Making Busts of Urban Meyer
That's one handsome bust.
-
Rivals Releases a New Rivals100
Heavy Ohio State lean Raekwon McMillan picks up a fifth star.
-
Kirk Ferentz's High School Nickname was "Fetus Head"
Explains a lot, really.
-
STROKE! STROKE! STROKE!
Ohio State Women's Rowing: 2013 B1G Champions
-
Hey Ladies, Here's Everything You Need to Know for Ohio State's Annual Women's Football Clinic
June 8th. Be there.
Recent Blog Posts
- 2013: The WR Rotation
- The Dontre Wilson Impact
- Better know a ... Mountaineer?
- Joey Bosa = perfect OOS recruit!
- Wrestling: Stieber defeats #1 Ranked wrestler in the world at Rumble on the Rails
- Response to Johnny's "There's so much money going around, well, mostly"
- My Worst Ohio State Football Experience Ever
- Summer Reading: The Most Hated On
- Big Ten State Beer Consumption Rankings
- Coop was better than Earle
Active in the Forum
- Kiper Has Bradley Roby as His Top Corner Prospect
- 11W Community Interview: Detroit Cass Tech CB Damon Webb
- Best Buckeye Team in Our Lifetime?
- 2014 JUCO OT Jermaine Eluemunor
- 2014 CB Quincy Wilson
- Man claims to be an All American Tight End from Ohio State is a fraud
- 2015 ohio players
- Not a form tackle
- 2015 Offers/Commits *Updated 5/20*
- 2014 RB/ATH Jonathan Haden
- 2014 DT Andrew Brown
- Hang 100?
- Quick Bits 5/20 (one new offer in both sports)
- Worst single play in OSU football history?
- 2015 Offers/Commits *Updated 5/20*
Want to say hello?
We love hearing from you! Whether you want to work with us, discuss advertising opportunities, or pass us a hot tip, you're more than welcome to drop us a line.
oh boy.
Both schools have their own Network already, don't they?
Both schools will walk away from the conference agreement they have signed within the past 12 monts, because of Rutgers and Maryland?
I don't see it.
I wish you were right though.
Maybe Notre Dame would join, if Texas would come in (maybe if Oklahoma were in (if Oklahoma State were in))
Texas isn't going to the Big Ten. There is always going to be a Southwest region conference, and Texas will always be in it. Maryland and Rutgers are all about getting the Big Ten Network onto as many TVs as possible which is for the good of everyone because of the money it brings in.
Texas is more likely to come then ND . ND will never come to the BIG ten, ever. They have had multiple chances and they wont in the future.
I don't see how adding Rutgers and Maryland has anything to do with bringing in Texas and ND. If ND joins a conference, it sure does look like it would be the ACC now, judging by the moves they made with their other sports. And Texas is more likely to join the SEC from everything I hear, than they would the B1G. I think your doing a lot of wishful thinking.
The only thing Rutgers and Maryland bring to the BIG is MONEY. If we bring them in, we have sold out. How do they make us a more competitive conference? They don't. As a matter of fact, they bring us down a notch. Sickening.
Stay off the drugs!! Texas will never come!! lol Longhorn Network/.....enough said!
I wish this were true but some people close to the situation at Maryland aren't saying if they are saying when sounds like it might be a done deal
What Kyle said. Stay off the drugs.
Notre Dame has made it clear time and time again that they're never going to join the Big Ten. And there are so many things that would make adding Texas difficult that I highly doubt it would ever happen. I struggle to see how potentially adding schools like Maryland or Rutgers would lure schools like Notre Dame or Texas.
USA Today agrees that this is just the beginning but they don't consider Texas or ND as the end result. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2012/11/18/college-realignment-revival/1712805/
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
The big ten getting into the recruiting grounds of the mid-atlantic and northeast is very important as well, I also disagree with you about Nebraska. They are a very big fish with a monstrous (top 5 probably) fanbase, not to mention a very good brand.
HOLY CRAP!! I thought this was just idle chatter and speculation but I just read an article that said the Maryland regents are voting Monday to decide if they will accept the offer to join the BIG. I didn't realize the BIG had already extended an offer. This really makes me sad. I hate to see what is left of our brand/reputation being deluted further by adding crappy atheletic programs.
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
Although I don't agree with this post it does make a lot of sense and could happen. Think about it, With all of these new markets the BIG will be tapping into, the money they will be making will more than trump all of the other tv deals out there. If the BIG scores big financially I could see a big name school making the jump. Personally I would love to see Georgia Tech and Florida State along with Rutgers and Maryland...
All labor that uplifts humanity has dignity and importance and should be undertaken with painstaking excellence. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.
Listen to the original poster, it is a part of the plan. That is the goal from talking to someone else that is well versed on this stuff and reading up on a lot of the publications such as SI and USA Today, etc.
Getting all those TV markets just increases revenue for each team making it hard to turn down the Big Ten because it offers more money than their own individual networks do.
The Longhorn Network isn't, or at least hasn't to this point, been all what it was cracked up to be for Texas. They aren't liking the returns.
And the destruction of the Big East and ACC also cripples those conferences forcing Notre Dame's hand. That's why Rutgers and Maryland are chosen, to help dismantle the ACC and Big East and to further the Big Ten Network up into the Northeastern and Mid-Atlantic States that are in very populous areas.
Notre Dame could be a tougher grab than Texas though, because there stubborn. But ND and Texas are the goals.
Also been told Virginia and UNC make sense, but I tend to think they have a goal and plan in mind to grab Notre Dame and Texas, if possible.
You forget that Jim Delany is far smarter than any of us, and about every other leader in the NCAA. The guy is great at what he does..... remember who started the network branding idea and made the Big Ten the #1 conference in Team revenue. Oh yeah, Delany.
Remember big time competitive schools like Florida State and Oklahoma just do not fit in with the academic reputation of the Big Ten. They wouldn't look that way.. ever.
In related news, Kevin Plank, the founder of Under Armor just sold (11/13/12) about $65 million worth of his stock. . . . . perhaps he's fronting MD's buyout costs? http://m.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2012/11/13/under-armour-ceo-kevin-plank-selling.html?r=full
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Ok but put Rutgers & Maryland over to the Legends side and give the Leaders Nebraska
O H I O is the Buckeye State
amazing.
@Buckeyeneer This was suggested by the Washington Post, everything is starting to line up perfectly for this. He knows the board will approve it or else he wouldn't make a move like this.
I doubt the Longhorn Network would stand in the way of Texas going anywhere. I wouldn't be totally surprised if it is either dropped or extremely different in 2 or 3 years, the amount of content just isn't there to draw big numbers of people. Also when Purdue and Indiana have made more money off of their football team than ND has over the last decade, I don't think ND's TV deal will make a huge difference. I would love both teams, but I really see it as pretty unlikely. But we'll see what happens. We did so well by adding Nebraska that I just don't see us making a minor league move by adding Maryland and Rutgers without a larger agenda though.
I know expansion is more about money than actually adding quality teams, but I hate the idea of adding 2 more bad programs to the conference. I know Rutgers is decent this year, but in general they aren't good, and Maryland is just plain horrible. It definitely gives the desired results and that is putting the BTN in DC, Baltimore, New Jersey and New York and makes the B1G more attractive for big fish, but I would love to see quality, not just schools close to big media markets.
My hope is the Plank continues the investment in Maryland and they become an east coast Oregon. I mean, no one talked about Oregon 10 years ago and they rode the Nike money train to relevance. Heck, Okie Lite did the same thing with T Boone's money. They are in a solid recruiting area and with Penn State down, no reason they couldn't be competing for B1G titles in 5 years with the right coach in place.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
No offense, but can someone please tell me what this acedemic reputation of the BIG is?? As far as I can tell it's just a bunch of state schools.
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
@Ann Arbor Buckeye A bunch of state schools that are all ranked in the Top 75 of public universities in the country, no other conference can claim that (FSU ruins the ACC's claim). The B1G has 4 schools in the Top 20 alone when it comes to public universities (UM, UW, PSU, OSU). Northwestern is essentially an Ivy League school. When it comes to FBS conferences, the Big Ten is an academic monster.
In my opinion, the quality of an athletic conference is determined by a combination of its constituent schools' success in football, then basketball, then other sports, then academics. You may disagree with that assessment, but Rutgers and Maryland are absolutely on par with the rest of the B1G in terms of those 4 categories combined. If you think only football, and maybe sometimes basketball are important, then yeah, it's probably a downgrade to invite them. However, Mark Turgeon has Maryland basketball competitive again, and Rutgers football is ranked and perenially decent. Both Maryland and Rutgers basketball and football, respectively, would compete for top 5 in the B1G. Maryland men's and women's soccer and lacrosse are consistently top-10 in the nation.
2¢
William: Interesting...I did not know that. Maybe I have been living in Ann Arbor for too long. Everyone around here seems to think OSU is half step above a commuter school. Glad to know there is more to the BIG than football.
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
I don't know what to make of all this.
The only thing I do know, however, is that Derek is correct in stating that folks at Texas are not as attached to the idea of maintaining a robust Longhorn Network as they were even 12 months ago. There has been nothing but frustration in negotiating deals with cable and satellite companies (the largest cable company in central Texas, Time Warner, still doesn't carry it).
So the Longhorn Network isn't as much an obstacle to the status quo as it was. I'm not convinced that means Texas would consider coming to the B1G; it still loves being the big fish in the small Big 12 pond. We'll see...
The addition of Rutgers and Maryland would put the Big 10 at 14 teams. So who else gets added? Texas, No way. Notre Dame, I still think is a possibility, with their TV deal up for renegotiating soon, so one never knows about negotiations.
What about Boston College? They seem like a Geographic misfit to the rest of the ACC. BC would give us Boston's TV Market, and a decent athletic school.
Texas and Notre Dame would be turning down ALOT of money not to join the Big Ten if the Maryland and Rutgers deal gets finalized and works out the way they want it to.
I just tweeted a lot of this after I found it online but Fox just got a 49% stake into the YES Network, which is a pretty huge TV network in NYC, with an option of it increasing to 80%.
FOX could bundle the BTN in NYC with the YES Network, creating all kinds of leverage.
That would ensure it's viewership and subscriber rates for the NYC market = a ton of $$$$$
i think if this deal goes down, then uva and unc are big targets for delaney, which puts immense pressure on the big boys of not necessarily being left out, but waiting too long to go to an ideal situation. i cant help but wonder why texas would be more interested in the b1g than the SEC...you would think slive would be able to implement something similar to the b1g with espn and the who south having more pride in the sec than their last name and lure texas, ok, okst, etc. to their place. who knows...i just love thinking about it!
Though Maryland wouldn't help in terms of football, it would bring the level up on the basketball side. The Big Ten is the best conference for college basketball, add Maryland an traditional solid, if not outstanding basketball college and it's going to be crazy.
Not excited about expansion I thought adding 1 school made sense and I believe Nebraska was a good add for both us and them not so sure about these other schools. Ohio State already recruits NJ / MD / VA when they want to and Urban did very well there at Florida himself and I'm sure that will continue
Sorry that probably won't happen. I think the next 2 targets would be Virginia and North Carolina to get to 16. If one of those 2 turn it down then Georgia Tech would get the call. Just my opinion
I don't think we could grab just Texas. It would have to be a package deal with them and 1-3 other teams I think if the big 12 collapsed Texas Oklahoma Texas Tech and Oklahoma St would all go to the Pac 12 most likely
@Ann Arbor Buckeye:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities
Here is my question... If the northeast market is what you are after, why wouldn't you go for Syracuse and Boston College??? that covers Bahston and NY. Cuse is awesome in hoops and has some deep football history. BC is usually solid, awesome in hockey lol. But seriously, wouldn't you rather have those two schools, or Rutgers (history consists of doormat since the first college football game was played), and Maryland who doesn't support their program (see below)
http://i.imgur.com/bGIy1.png
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
Syracuse doesn't carry the glamour of an academic school quite like Rutgers and isn't the state school if I'm correct. Not sure if they are also apart of the AAU which is probably in the link above.
Same with Boston College. Their is a lot that goes into it. Being a state school, being in a fertile recruiting territory, being in the AAU, and being strong academically also go into it.
I tend to agree with OTRAIN. Economics aside, Austin is more culturally aligned with the PAC-12 more than the B1G and, definitely, the SEC. Most Texas fans would clamor for joining PAC-12 if Big 12 collapses.
I think a lot of our issues with this deal is that we (me) are looking at this strictly from a football and possibley basketball perspective and I believe Delany is looking at this from an academic and cultural aspect as well if not more so than just the two money sports. That drastically changes the outlook. I still hate it though.
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
Sounds like there gonna be alot of dam schools in the big ten ..
Buckeye_For_Life
Oh...the alum of the B1G schools will have nightmares about Marylands (lack-of) tradition and horrible uniform choices.
@AABuckeye. What you say is true, but it's the two money sports that drive BTN. If you're in a crappy league or a bottom feeder in any league who's going to watch? Maryland and Rutgers may help a little in the basketball revenue, but let's face it, it's football that brings in the big money. My point being, what good does it do to reach out to a market that nobody will be watching. It's like the tree in the forest thing...."if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?" To me the logical answer is "Who gives a shit?"
I have a hard time believing Texas would ever come to the B1G or even Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a no brainer, but they get sooooo much money elswhere for football it'll be hard to see that changing. Texas is more likely to join the PAC 14 - 18 or whatever they end up when all the chips (What's that?) fall into place.
JT
On one hand, the traditionalist in me wants 10 teams and only 10 teams. However, I like that PSU and Nebraska have joined. If this type of expansion must happen, and there is no turning back, then I say do the best you can for your conference by adding the schools that offer you the most value academically, athletically, and of course monetarily.
Not sure why North Carolina would leave Duke. I would think Virginia and perhaps Georgia Tech would nicely round out the B16 (it's no coincidence that the G in the new logo looks like a 6).
"Buclkle your chinstrap, we're gonna grind meat!" - Woody Hayes
I thought Notre Dame signed that agreement to play the ACC for five years? They're joining the ACC. Its why Maryland is leaving. Their slice of the pie just got a whole lot smaller. At least with the Big Ten they wont lose anything, moneywise anyway.
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
Maryland, Rutgers, UVA & UNC seem most likely to me if we are going to 16.
@Northbrook
That's the motherload, money-wise. I think its what delaney wants, too.
There have been an awful lot of Georgia Tech rumors though. They don't follow the contiguous state rule, but they are an AAU school. There aren't many AAU schools left that we would have a real shot at getting. Those three- VA, UNC, GA Tech- and also possibly Duke. If we go to 16, it would be from that group unless ND gets back in the picture somehow.
@Frankly Scarlet-
UNC would leave Duke because the b1G pays out almost three times per team what the ACC does. Money makes the world go 'round.
The additions of Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G, assuming this actually goes down as rumored, is a part of a larger, long-term strategy. I maintain that the end game of that strategy is a final push to add Notre Dame and Texas into the B1G platform. Because that is the goal, however, it doesn't mean that's how it all plays out. There are too many dynamic variables at play to accurately determine who goes where and when. Nonetheless, Texas and Notre Dame are the end game -- Texas being the crown jewel. If there is a back-up plan, and I would be surprised if there wasn't one, it likely consists of some combination of Georgia Tech, UNC, Virginia, and Notre Dame. Let's look at some of the variables and extrapolate possible movements.
First, we know from Delany's remarks in May 2010 that a key factor in long-term expansion plans for the B1G is gaining a southern foothold. From these remarks, Delany pretty much told the world what he intends to do -- he's either heading to Texas, or in the alternative, Georgia (via Georgia Tech). For the B1G to remain competitive over the next 100 years, it must grow south. As it stands, the three most fertile recruiting grounds are California, Texas, and Florida. The Pac 12 has California in its pocket. The ACC has Florida. The SEC also has Florida, and now also has Texas. The Big 12 of course has Texas. The B1G...Ohio? You see the problem. The B1G would not consider Florida St. or Miami as expansion candidates for academic reasons -- they are not members of the AAU; all B1G members are AAU members with the exception of Nebraska which was an AAU member at the time it was invited into the B1G. The only viable target for Delany to consider is Texas, which is a member of the AAU. We know from disclosed emails between the presidents of Ohio State and Texas back in June of 2010, that there is a mutual interest in bringing Texas into the B1G. It is my view that the B1G made a concerted effort to bring Texas into the B1G back in 2010, but for whatever reason the plan was put on the backburner. One reason I believe it did not happen then is because when Delany opened up the expansion box, he had no idea at the time the frenzy and mass hysteria it would cause nationwide. All of a sudden, media painted him to be Darth Vader trying to ruin college football. A couple years later, Delany now has sufficient cover under recent expansion efforts by all the other power conferences. Delany can now go back to doing what he sought out to do in the first place, and not look like the guy about to ruin the sport. The state of Texas is the southern foothold that Delany has his sights on. Would he take North Carolina, Virginia, and Georgia as an alternative? Probably, but that's not his primary objective. His primary objective is to put the pieces in place to make a run for Texas.
So let's look at Texas and where it stands. Again, we know from disclosed emails between Texas and Ohio State that there is mutual interest in bringing Texas into the B1G. Then in September 2011, the rumor mill took it to another level when a Northwestern blogger disclosed a contract proposal drafted by Texas and Notre Dame and presented to Delany. It was never confirmed whether this was an actual draft, but there was enough substance to the contract to give it some credibility. Again, for whatever reason, nothing more came from the rumor. Or did it? We don't know. Of interest in the contract proposal is the timing of things, where 2014/2015 was seen as the target date of adding Texas and Notre Dame due to certain TV contracts already in place. Also of interest is that since this contract disclosure, Dodd of Texas came out with very pro-Notre Dame remarks, saying that what he has learned through the whole expansion process, is that the Univ. of Texas has a "friend" in Notre Dame. Now, we also know the B1G is not the only suitor for Texas. We learned in 2011 that the Pac 12 made a serious push for Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., and Texas Tech. In fact, from all accounts, that deal would have happened but for Texas pulling out at the last moment. By the way, for anyone thinking that Texas has any interest in the SEC -- you are wrong. Texas has zero interest in the SEC. It would consider the Pac 12 or B1G -- it will not consider the SEC, ever. Texas may in the end just stick to its current course and keep building out a portfolio of programs to add to the Big 12. This is very plausible. But I think there are serious long-term flaws with this strategy, and I think Texas knows that, and I think Delany knows that. You have to understand both the academics and culture of the Univ. of Texas and Austin to understand the problems here. The Univ. of Texas has a very good academic reputation -- as mentioned before, it is an AAU member. Moreover, culturally, Austin is more on the progressive side of things, more in the mindset of the folks out West in the Pac 12 or some Midwestern (and now possibly Eastern) counterparts in the B1G. So knowing that, over the long term, do you really see Texas putting up with the likes of West Virginia? No way. Now, would Texas put up with a school like West Virginia if it meant it could also add Florida St. and Clemson? That remains to be seen. But my position is that the current makeup of the Big 12 is not sustainable, and Texas knows that -- and Delany knows that.
Now, let's take a look at Notre Dame. It is clear that Notre Dame is not satisfied with the current makeup of the B1G. Notre Dame does not want to be a member of just a midwestern conference. Notre Dame wants to maintain an east coast presence, a west coast presence, and a southern presence. The west coast presence will be maintained so long as the series between USC (as well as Stanford) remains viable. The recent deal with the ACC where it schedules five games with ACC opponents every year, gives it both an eastern and southern presence. The only way the B1G has a chance to finally bring Notre Dame into the B1G, is by expanding its footprint both east and south. Notre Dame will not join just because of Rutgers and Maryland, however. That is a start, but more is needed. Notre Dame would join if one of two other scenarios plays out -- Texas joins, or a combination of Georgia Tech, UNC, Virginia joins. It is my position that Delany still has his sights on Notre Dame and he is currently building out the foundation to make a final push to bring them into the B1G.
Finally, let's look at Rutgers and Maryland and why these are two very important pieces of the puzzle. We should know more by the end of this week whether or not these two will become new members of the B1G. If they do, here's why Delany went this route. We all know that Rutgers and Maryland are bottom feeders on the football field. What they bring to the table however is the B1G to the DC Metro and NYC markets. More importantly, what they bring is Texas-Notre Dame, Texas-Nebraska, Ohio State-Texas, Penn St.-Nebraska, Michigan-Ohio State, Michigan-Texas, Penn St.-Texas,,, the additions of Rutgers and Maryland brings some of the biggest, most historic brands into the Big Apple and DC metro. That's big exposure -- that's big money. Plus, a tide raises all boats. Maryland and Rutgers will see huge benefits for being partners in this new dynamic conference model that extends down to the gulf to the great lakes and to the eastern seaboard.
People in Delany's position -- that get to play with power and profits and pride for a daily living -- do not make Rutgers and Maryland the end game. Delany's end game is the really big fish -- football giants like Texas and Notre Dame. Plus, people like Delany -- ultra competitive types -- simply cannot stand to see the SEC dominate the sport for the next 5 decades like it has the past 7 years. Ultimately, Delany has set out on a path to make the B1G more competitive against the SEC. Rutgers and Maryland do not national championships make. But they are pieces to bring in Texas and Notre Dame, and in combination with Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and Nebraska -- this is the recipe to compete with the SEC. This is a dynamic affair, however, and it is unclear whether or not he can accomplish what he has set out to do. It may be that his back-up plan is most viable. I'm not sure. I'm confident however, that Delany wants Texas and Notre Dame, and if Rutgers and Maryland are brought into the B1G, it is because of this end game.
@Buckz4ever
It doesn't really matter how many fans Rutgers has. What matters is whether or not you can get it in their cable packages. And with News Corps acquisition of the YES network it seems extremely plausible that Fox will be able to bundle the two and strong arm cable providors to pick up the BTN. According to SI the added subscription fees, if Fox was able to do that, could add as much as 200 million in revenue. This is without any additional ad revenue.
@allday Thanks for the explanation.
@jmac Very well written and makes a lot of sense. My issue with it is, it seems to have an extremely high risk element to it. If he is wrong, he sends the BIG into irrelevency for years and in spite of all the good he has done, his legecy will take a major hit. We may have gained the money, but lost what little respect we had to begin with. If he is right, and we get Texas and Notre Dame, he will have of enhanced his legecy as the most successfull commissioner of all times. From my uninformed opinion, I just don't see Texas/Notre Dame happening. Notre Dame has rejected us a million times before and recently slapped us in the face, while Texas' footprint and to a degree its culture is more in line with the Pac12. Plus they had their chance and didn't take it in 2010. Are they going to use us to enhance their own position to other conferences like we are doing to Maryland and Rutgers?
wow jmacbuckeye, looks like you hit the nail on the head with this one...
@ BUCKZ4EVR
It is very high risk. But those are the stakes. If Delany fails to make a strong push into southern markets -- if all the B1G is left with is Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers -- he fails big time. I think history would not paint a nice picture of that Delany. Because ultimately what would that failure mean? It would mean that in his failed attempt to make a push south, he actually made at least 3 other power conferences that much stronger. Delany cannot go back now. He must make a push south one way or another. I maintain his preference is Texas, but if it ends up being some combination of Georgia Tech, UNC, VA... he will take it because he has to.
No way Texas and ND join the Big 10. Period.
The days of saying "no way this or that happens" are long gone. Three years ago, could you have foreseen the dissolution of the Big East in basketball? They were the freaking powerhouse of powerhouses in terms of top-to-bottom (mostly, sans Depaul) quality and now... poof!
Who knows if Delaney's plan will work, but generalizing based on precedent is probably foolhardy at this point.
Evanston is right. Money talks and can do incredible things as bad as that sounds. Look at whats happened in the last 5 years in College Sports landscape.
Texas isn't coming to the B1G unless they get rid of The Longhorn Network. They won't so stop dreaming of this...it's not going to happen. The Big 12 also would have to disband totally for this to happen and I also don't see that happening either. The ploy may be correct that Jim's trying, however I don't see them pulling in Texas. May be someone else, but not Texas...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
So when do the bucks play RU at Yankee stadium?? LOL
Steinbrenner, Fox, Yes Network.. Its gotta happen
Can't compute.. breathe ..
Taking my son on the B train to see the Bucks play.. F- christmas.. best news ever
The B1G is much, much more likely to move southeast than they are to add Notre Dame and Texas, neither of which seems very interested (Texas being Texas, they would be much more likely to ask the Big Ten to join it rather than the other way around).
I don't know if you could get North Carolina out of the ACC, because they are probably more integral to the identity of that conference than even Nebraska was to the Big 8/Big 12. But they would be the prize. North Carolina will pass Michigan in population sometime in this current decade.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Watch the free live Maryland press conference here: http://www.umterps.com/allaccess/
Texas? Join New York City?
@CPLUNK
My understanding is there isn't a contiguous rule.
@Northbrook
It is not a written rule, but Delaney has said it in the past. My feeling is that rule is a lot less firm than the AAU rule. For example, if Texas wants in, they're in.
UNC would be a package deal with NC State. They're both members of the UNC School System. UNC and Duke have no academic/financial ties, just an athletic rivalry. If the Big Ten cannot get ND or Texas, going after the two largest schools in NC, UNC and NCSU would be good. However it seems like Delaney only wants to go after one major state university from each state, so that essentially rules out taking a NC school.
The ACC has the highest acadmic rankings of the BCS conferences. As far as NC State and UNC goes: I read that NC State is the lowest ranking academic school in the ACC and would rank last of the existing B1G schools. However, they would rank 9th if they were in the SEC (ahead of South Carolina, Kentucky, LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Miss. State). Whereas if UNC joined the B1G they would be the 3rd ranked school (behind only Northwestern and UM) and they would be 2nd if they joined the SEC (behind only Vandy).
BTW: Nebraska is currently the lowest ranked school in the B1G academically speaking.
Actually every university in the ACC is a Top 75 public university/highly ranked private institution outside of FSU. NC State has actually been pushing for AAU membership of late. NC State is comparable to a Purdue (Based on my limited knowledge of Purdue). The Big Ten is the highest ranked academic conference out side of the ACC, as every member is a Top 75 public university/highly ranked private institution.
Edit: Scratch that, FSU and NCSU are equally ranked but they're both Top 75 public universities. In fact, NCSU is higher ranked than Kansas, an AAU member.
You guys have to remember, theres teams out there willing to pay $50 million dollars just to leave their conference to join the Big Ten.
Texas and Notre Dame are obvious hard acquisitions, but to just count it as proposterous and unrealistic at this time isn't wise.
Did you think the Texas - Texas A&M rivalry would end? I know I didn't. For the same reasons some of you are saying there is no way Texas and ND make the move.
It'll be tough, and maybe a long shot, but it is not out of the realm of possibility. Don't think Delany does this if he doesn't think he can pull off a big fish.
According to Northwestern's resident reallignment guru, he agrees that Texas and ND are the final pieces. This is from Northwestern's free rivals board.
http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=181189238&mid=181189238&sid=901&style=2
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I don't neccessarily think that UNC and NC State have to be a package deal. If UNC bolted to the B1G, I'm thinking that Slive and the SEC will want to jump in to make sure B1G isn't getting all the market North Carolina. I mean, the SEC games are televised in North Carolina too. If Delaney makes a play and lands UNC, I don't think he'll have to take NC State. Same with the Virginia schools. Which honestly I don't like the idea of either, but if you take UVA, Va Tech would ultimately end up in the SEC I think.
Perhaps the B1G and SEC aren't so against eachother at all. Maybe Slive and Delaney have been scheming from the get go here. The 2 most powerful conferences in the land go to super conferences essentially changing the landscape of college football. Maybe these 2 conferences making such big power moves could help render the NCAA irrelevant. I have to imagine as things fall apart more the PAC 12 will also go toward a super conference status as well.
Texas will never be in the SEC, academically the conference is too low profile for them. They'll have to move to the Big 10 or Pac 12 I think. Think about the TV markets the B1G could crack into if they got Rutgers with the Fox/YES deal happening, Maryland, Texas, and Ga Tech. WOW, the TV revenue would be insane. That would make the pay back each team gets from the BTN and other TV deals insane.
William - My rankings were from US News and World Report. They have NC State ranked 106.
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/spp+25
N.C. State seems like most a fit for SEC, along with Va Tech. Makes too much sense. SEC could chase Oklahoma and Oklahoma State as well.
What we don't know yet is how the ACC is going to handle its new $50 million exit fee. As far as I can see from what has been reported so far, the only way Maryland is able to deal with such a daunting figure is its connection with Under Armour. I don't see any other ACC members pulling that one off. Until we know more on whether that number is iron clad, I think any speculation of Florida St. and Clemson to the Big 12, NC State and Virginia Tech to the SEC, UNC, VA, and G-Tech to B1G, or any other combination that involves an ACC team is premature. If the $50 million exit fee sticks, the ACC is probably in no worse shape than where it began the day... lose Maryland, add UConn, go on happily with life.
Tenn, those are for national universities (both private and public) I was using USNWR's Public university rankings, which still show that FSU was higher ranked as you suggested, but they also show that NCSU is higher ranked than Kansas, an AAU member. If anyone thinks that NC State fits in with the SEC, you've clearly never been to NC State. I will say that UNC would be a perfect fit in the Big Ten, and Hell their fans are exact replicas of Michigan fans, elitist and probably never attended the school they support. Anyway NC State is a fairly well ranked engineering school, with an excellent vet school, design school, and textiles program. What may be holding them back from AAU membership is the lack of a medical center/school.
I can't see the Big 10 going to 20 teams. 16 teams seem to be what is discussed the most. What about an 18 team Conference?
Two 9 team divisions. Now at 14, the Big 10 could add 4 more teams, if Texas and Notre Dame are the End Game, the you would have 2 more spots left to make the conference more agreeable to Notre Dame and Texas.
Those 2 spots could go to Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech or Boston College
But, Texas won't join the Big 10. They just won't. Well maybe they would, If the Big 10 would rename the Conference "Texas is the Biggest Conference".
The Big 10 goes to 18 teams, adding Georgia Tech,Boston College, Virginia and then finally gets Notre Dame.
20 teams is too Big right........ yep.
?
@ johnblairgobucks
with a very long view of things, i can see 20-team conferences. that's just pure economics working... big fish eat little fish. but that's not happening anytime soon, in my opinion. 18 even seems like a stretch for the imagination for the near term as well. exit penalties will restrict a great deal of movement. only those players with substantial assets -- the movers -- are in play, at this point (UConn, Rutgers, aside). exit penalties make even 16 difficult to accomplish any time soon. there has to be a clear showing of a big win-win situation for all parties involved to make that happen in the short term. the costs involved with exit penalties, not to mention, any penalty clauses built into TV contracts, make it cost prohibitive for much more substantial movement going forward. that is, unless you are one of the big boys on the playground and have power to dictate terms. there aren't many out there that have that kind of clout... Texas does, so does Notre Dame
you also allude to the Texas is biggest mindset, and i agree, that dynamic is there for any player willing to tango with it. Nebraska was obviously not amused by that mindset, neither was Texas A&M. but no lights are brighter than the big lights in the Big Apple. Texas can either have its Texas-sized Long Horn Network, or it can choose to join a conference that spans the gulf coast, the great lakes, and into the eastern seaboard... maybe even have a shiny billboard on Times Square. with a long view of things, it is clear what is the sustainable trend and what is not. Texas' little gang of 10 is not. B1G is here to stay. Pac 10 is here to stay. SEC is here to stay. Of these, only two are viable options.
JMACBUCKEYE, reading your thoughts as well as Derek Young's has been very interesting. Imagine the unimaginable.
It's hard to Imagine Texas in the Big 10. Notre Dame seems like it will happen to me, it fits too well. I just don't see J.R. Ewing interested in Times Square, when he can go spend his time driving his Longhorn car-bonneted Cadillac to a downtown Dallas Sky-Rise penthouse, where 10 pretty little hospitality gals (Big 12) and some bourbon on the rocks are waiting for orders.
Well, JohnBlair, you have a point there. Pretty gals and bourbon speak volumes for southern boys
@JohnBlair, that is a stereotype. LOL. UT Austin is more culturally aligned with the PAC-12, but there are many midwestern ex-pats in Austin, too. Texas fans would not be horribly upset with a move to the B1G. Austin is not like the rest of Texas. It's like California with boots on.
Austin is also one of the four hipster meccas in the US (along with Williamsburg, Brooklyn; Silver Lake, CA; and Portland, OR). There is a surprisingly large contingent of ex-New Yorkers in Austin, albeit not the type that regularly attend college football games.
2 reasons I think Texas to B1G is unlikely:
1) Mr. Pearlman (Nebraska chancellor)--and Nebraska, in general--can't stand Texas. Texas is why they left the Big 12 in the first place. They will lobby against inviting Texas.
2) The feeling in Big 12 country is that the conference will now raid the ACC (and Big East) for FSU as well as one other team from a pool of Lousiville, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and, just maybe, Notre Dame.
The Big 12 remains a viable conference. It's the Big East and ACC that are in trouble.
ATXBUCKNUT - If you think UT is just Austin you're missing about 80% of UT's identity. UT is an identity for many of the people in the entire state, and the state is the opposite of CA.
I hope the "big fish" theory works out. Big16 will take some getting used to. At the end of the day we have to be ok with Georgia Tech and Virginia in the B1G (I am ok with this) Both are great schools. But will we be happy with Rutgers, MD, GT, and UVA while we wait around for Texas, then beg Notre Dame?
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
@CC, definitely agree with you that TX as a whole is way different than Cali. Not sure what you mean by UT being an "identity" for Texans, though. Everything north of Liberty Hill and east of Bastrop is pretty dang near culturally aligned with north Texas (DFW culture) and east Texas (southern culture), respectively. That doesn't mean that UT doesn't have fans elsewhere in the state, just that Austin--where UT is located--has more of a California vibe than a midwest or southern one. I mean, have you not noticed all the Californians moving here and running up housing prices the past 15 years (lol!)?
Yeah, I agree, Austin is cool, but getting less so by the minute. Damn Californians.
What your a for getting is that IF and yes it is a big IF Texas and ND where to come aboard to the B1G you would have alot of big money players in the B1G then what other Conf. would be able to sell that. If this is about Dollars then look at what you got ND, Texas, tOSU, Neb, Mich, and Penn St. You would be able to recruit the east coast and all the way down in Texas that opens up alot of in roads to talent hot beds all over.
Personally i would have went after G Tech frist to get the in to the ATL area. The B1G needs to push south some so that the Sec Quit tring to slip north and get into some of are areas cause they are already cherry picking talent from OHIO.
I'm all for Georgia Tech if we can't get ND to join. That would make the B1G the nation's best engineering school conference, with at least 6 of the top 50 engineering schools
As an ND student, i hate to break it to you but:
We will never join your conference. It's not personal. We like you (from a distance) better than any other conference. We just dont need a conference financially or for BCS access, so we don't want to play nice and give up our special benefits, making us like any other school (notre dame AD = conference commissioner in BCS talks?). We half-join leagues and then we push them around to get what we want.
Frankly, I think y'all should go independent. Its a lot of fun, especially when you're good (finally). Good luck against scUM!
@Chubler
I hear you.
The thing is, you're going to lose that BCS access. When there are four super conferences of 16 teams each, the playoffs are going to be the champions of those four conferences. Independents are not going to have a chance.
All of the recent few years realignment has been about determining who is going to have a seat at that 64 team table. Like Saban at Bama just pointed out, those 64 teams should just play each other. Delaney almost succeeded in making it official at the playoff talks, with his conference champs only limitation, but it was always more likely to be an unofficial culture change rather than a rule.
You see your special deals as indicating that you push conferences around, but actually it's more of the opposite. Once you were completely independent. The need for a scheduling association for non-football sports then pushed you to associate with the Big East. You had enough power to keep football out of that deal. When the Big East was ripped apart, you were not able to remain fully independent. Instead you sought a new association, but this one required you to give up a little of that football independence. You had to commit to a certain numbe of ACC games a year, had to give up some rivals. With each association you've become a little less independent, a little less powerful, than before.
I know you, and most ND fans, think there is no way ND wouldn't be included in any sort of upper level D1, and to an extent you are right- ND will be given the opportunity to join one of those conferences time and time again. Eventually you will have to pick one or become like Ivy league football; Once so important nobody could imagine big time football without you, now irrelevant.
i think the ship sailed on ND to the B1G long ago and you end up in either what is now the B12 or the ACC. One of those conferences won't be around anymore, at least as a major conference.
Things change as time and circumstances change. ND is going to get pushed around or pushed out of the picture by the winds of change in the next ten or so years.
Congrats on your great season! I am OSU through and through, so what really matters is to me is beating TSUN, but I'm not gonna lie- I would really like to see anybody besides the SEC win this year.