Twitter is ablaze that FSU has a 5 yr plan to be in the AAU. @theDudeofWV is the apparent fire starter and retweeted by jbook and some others. Saying FSU in already with UNC to follow. Anyone hear anything?
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None of it is from anywhere credible, so no story yet. Although the FSU/UNC rumors have been around for awhile. What's holding FSU back is it's AAU status.
Quick question: do you guys think that the addition of FSU would secure media markets in Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, and Miami? I mean, Tallahassee is pretty far from all those big Floridian cities, and I have to wonder if those areas are so much more sympathetic to other college football programs (UF, Miami) that the BTN would have an issue forcing its way into these markets.
Florida is also chock full of transplanted Yankee fans, and BTN/Fox owns the Yes network and, therefore, the rights to the Yankees broadcasts.
Also many transplanted midwesterners in Florida.
I don't think Florida State alone has that much media pull, but I think Florida State, the Yankees, and the transplanted Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan fans might.
This is what I've been thinking as well CPLunk.
Plus, there's a definite TAMU-like popular-revolt-against-the-ACC feeling amongst Noles and not a lot of love for the SEC. Plus there's a consensus that the Big XII is beneath them academically. FSU is another Nebraska-like situation... a cherry ripe for the picking.
Now the other names being thrown around... those are the ones where Delany has his work cut out for him.
#fistpumpgobuckeyes
The most easily-overlooked point in the BTN's favor here is the percentage of the TV audience who come from the network's footprint. A 2006 study conducted at the University of Florida found that more than 800,000 residents of the state are so-called "snowbirds," many of whom become permanent fixtures in the state.
Similarly, Forbes blogger Travis Brown noted that while the Buckeye State lost two electoral votes due to outward migration in recent years, Florida's population swelled 17.6% as tax- and weather-weary Midwesterners took up residence in sunnier, and more money-friendly, climates.
In other words, a lot of Buckeye, Badger and Boilermaker fans watch television in Florida, and would love to watch their favorite teams play the Seminoles.
haha we should just link to our old convos on this matter.
Sometimes I feel like that's all I'm doing :)
As, obviously, a Buckeye fan living in Orlando I would really like it if the BTN was able to force the cable providers here to include the BTN instead of charging me 10 bucks a month.
<<<<<< Maryland resident painstakingly awaiting the same.......
"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes
Verizon includes it in its sports package in Virginia :P
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Verizon has the BTN in Tampa
I have BTN in Tallahassee from Comcast.
Yeah, but it's not worth living in Virginia just to get BTN.
Taquitos.
I don't need any more reasons to move from MD. This may be the straw...
The Miami market is the biggest stretch of the four you mentioned, though I think the power of Fox behind the BTN could actually crack open many, if not most of the Sunshine State's coveted television DMAs. All of FSU's games this season aired on one of the four ESPN channels or ABC, so one can assume their is still some quasi-national appeal left from the Bowden era, I think.
There is a large FSU following in Tampa. I would say UF has the largest following though. Probably because UF is about 2 hrs away and FSU is 4 hrs.
I took a look at this question/rumor in late January. FSU does indeed have as part of its strategic plan the stated goal of achieving AAU membership, which is the largest single hurdle the 'Noles face in getting a B1G invite.
Are they trying to get an invite to the B1G?
While I think that has been speculated, I don't think anyone outside FSU's administration and Jim Delaney's brain trust can say that with any certainty.
What we can say for sure is that being a member of the AAU is a big, big deal, and for an otherwise solid school like FSU, getting that ticket punched should be a high priority regardless of athletics.
While often times the Dude is full of it, this time he is right, or at least his info is in line with what is coming from the insiders of the B1G Chicago office on the Scout pay board. Apparently, the presidents at OSU, Wisconsin, and Michigan are reviewing FSU's plan and will make a recommendation to the other president's at the B1G's April meeting. Last I heard, it was Wisky and TTUN that were against allowing FSU to join. No word on what way they are leaning but if FSU's plan swayed them, get ready to party Florida Buckeyes. The B1G will be invading your fine state.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I'd be all in for this move
Why? (and I'm asking this respectfully, not antagonistically)
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
Because it gives our conference a pipeline and extends our territory into Florida one of the top football rich states in the country. If you look closely at the SEC the minute they added A&M a lot more big name Texas recruits started committing to SEC schools (not just A&M) rather than traditionally staying in the Big 12. Taking away 1 of the power houses in FSU, it creates a lot of instability putting pressure on Clemson and Miami to look at the Big 12 and hopefully Notre Dame to get off their high horse to take a hard look at the Big 10. FSU has also had a pretty good basketball team in recent years which could help our conference as well in the winter. Their baseball team is also very good and nationally ranked every year. As far as academics their middle 50% of freshman accepted last year was 3.7-4.2 academic GPA; 26-30 ACT composite, which is not far off at all with other Big 10 schools. So AAU status is really all they need to attain. Overall, they would be an awesome addition to our conference and a "wow" team I'll get excited to play in sports like Nebraska. I'm guessing you don't like the FSU move and I'm curious why?
The Big 12 is going to expand. According to an article on coming Sun Belt expansion
That means the Big 12 and Sun Belt will necessarily add teams.
Between the B1G, Big 12, and SEC it really looks like the ACC as we know it will crumble. Can it survive in some form by adding more current Big East teams?
The soon-to-be dismantled ACC will most-likely have to pick up the pieces of the Americana conference (or whatever they're calling the Catholic 7's rejects these days) to remain viable after Delaney's raid.
i don't think the Big 12 can reasonably take many of the schools in the ACC footprint, as the WVU experiment has had a few growing pains re: scheduling and travel. Adding more schools from farther East will only complicate and already complex problem.
The B12 may get some ACC schools but it will be after the B1G and SEC eat their fill.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I actually think Notre Dame ends up in the B12 when all is said and done and not the B1G.
i realize the eastern markets that ND covets are all much more likely to end up in the B1G, so I have no facts to backup that opinion. It's just a feeling. I think ND has pushed itself into a bit of a mental corner, where it views losing independence and the what-everyone-considers-inevitable move to the B1G as defeat. Cutting that defeat in half, i.e. losing independence but choosing someone other than the B1G, can be at least mentally spun as "doing it on their own terms". Even if it really wasn't.
Again, I recognize this is an opinion with no real facts behind it. Just a feeling.
You may be right, Cplunk, but its all about context and how it is presented. I would have no problem with a B1G delegation going to ND and saying,"You don't want to be stuck in some regional conference. We get that. We are now a conference that extends from Wisconsin to NYC, to Florida, to Nebraska. While there is no special treatment in the B1G, in a sense we catered our expansion to you. Join us and enjoy exposure to the vast majority of America, as well as continuing your west coast games for full national exposure."
I don't see ND joining another conference out of spite.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I wouldn't say it'd be out of spite. Not the word I'd use. More out of a subconscious attempt to find some aspect to feel good about in losing their cherished independence.
I've already heard that one at least once before. The rumors are starting to get recycled.
There are FSU alums throughout the state. In every city to the keys. And Atlanta. hell, I live on a small island just north of longboat key that is full of Noles fans/alums. They love the Noles as we love the Buckeyes, pretty respectful too. Unlike gaytor and canes fans. T.V. $ would be HUGE.
No fun for the athletes to be traveling even further.
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
Ok, all of this 5-year, 10-year, blah blah talk about getting into the AAU displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the organization. Getting into the AAU isn't about hitting certain benchmarks and crossing off a checklist and BAM! you apply for your AAU membership card and you're AAU. It doesn't work that way. The AAU invites you. You don't come to them. Besides being a few dozen schools back on the "next in" list, the AAU actually isn't looking to expand. If anything, they're looking to contract. (See: Nebraska, Syracuse)
Florida State isn't going to be AAU in 5 years or 10 years or maybe even 20 years. You're talking hundreds of millions of dollars invested from where FSU currently sits. All this "5-year AAU plan" amounts to is placating the academic elites in Ann Arbor and Madison enough for them to at least see FSU on an "upward trajectory" academically. One area where FSU is strong though is research in electromagnetics. That's a field on the rise, so maybe they can upsell that.
Admitting FSU would be lowering our academic standards as a conference, but if expansion is inevitable (and I believe it is), I really hope they allow it to pass. I don't want to see the B1G watered down athletically without adding at least one more "king". FSU would be the best "king" available.
Are you saying ND is not the best king, or just that they are not available? I don't like ND, but I would rather have them than FSU or UNC. If I had to take one of the three.
I don't think ND is available. The B1G would take them in a heartbeat, but ND would rather cut off their nose than join the B1G. Outside of geography, we really don't share anything in common with each other. Read Andy's article for a deeper look.
Basically, the B1G is comprised of large, public, research-minded universities. ND is small, private, religious, and focused on undergraduate education. Other than geography, there's not a lot of overlap. It's like the ND campus has just been transplanted from the east coast and dropped off to toil away in northern Indiana like they've been punished. I kid, Indiana.
While I see your point, I recall a conversation I had with Andy and a handful of others a month or 2 ago about the very subject of ND and the B1G. Andy also wrote a rather extensive blog on it as well. What it comes down to is TV markets. That's the bottom line at this point. Two of the three schools you have mentioned have specific markets, one being a very large market and the other possibly being a large market depending on how the cable situation can work itself out.
Notre Dame is not one of them, though. Notre Dame doesn't have a set market. Their fans are all over the place and not in large quantities where it clearly dominates a market. They don't bring in any added revenue in that regard. They do bring a name, though, but, at this point, name alone isn't going to get them in. If we dive into it even more, what outside of a name and good academics do they bring? Before this year, ND football has been irrelevant for the last 20 some years. Do we look at this past year as a sign of things to come or is it an aberration? I'm going the latter on that one. Regardless, it comes down to this: do we take ND purely based on name alone? I don't think so.
FSU is not only a name but a solid market and has solid academics that appear to be on the up and up. Since I think it's vital at this point to ensure that we don't just settle for mediocre football teams to get markets, FSU needs to be a team of consideration if they're willing to make the jump. They're the total package and the prize of the group of possible ACC detractors.
UNC brings a gigantic market as well as solid academics (academic fraud through the athletic department or not, you can't discount their academics), a major basketball program, and a football program that has the potential to be great given the talent rich area that they're in. They need to be of major consideration too.
So given all of that, if we're "deciding" between those 3 schools, I think it goes FSU 1, UNC 2, and ND 3.
I know ND is appealing to most fans because we've been after them for so long and they still have that name recognition, but we don't get much return on that investment and I think they become more of an add-on later as the ACC crumbles and they're forced to make a move.
You've said everything I would have said, and probably better.
I think your right, Riggins. The 5 year plan is all cover so the eggheads can sleep at night after they vote to allow FSU in. I think if it does happen, we are looking for at 15 to 25 years.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
This is actually a really good analysis of the realities of AAU membership from what I've gathered in my research on the subject. Membership isn't about a "do this and you get in" mindset, but rather about an entire institutional paradigm geared toward a certain academic, research-focused ethos. From what I've read, also, I think FSU legitimately wants to "get there," but as with Nebraska, may long be in the "not quite there" echelon.
I also think that if I were a B1G President, I'd be inclined to consider a "bubble school" like FSU for the same reasons they accepted UNL knowing that the Huskers were on the equivalent of AAU probation (no one was blindsided by the AAU kicking them out): they "fit in" with the rest of the conference's membership, and bring a number of positive qualities to the table.
Assuming that we will not be able to pry the University of Florida away from the SEC, FSU is the next best option in the state of Florida.
Another insiders at Scout.com confirmed that tOSU, Wisky, and TTUN are reviewing the FSU 5-yr plan. tOSU is leading the charge to get FSU in, but Wisky and TTUN are throwing up road blocks. Anyone know how many votes are needed to get a school in or does it have to be unanimous?
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
My guess is technically it doesn't need to be unanimous, but it looks bad if it isn't so they probably will hold off until everyone is on board.
I would think though that if you have 2 schools blocking it and everyone else on board, you might see a "second" vote that happens to then have all the schools on board.
If I recall correctly they needed a minimum of 8 (of 11) to get Nebraska in. I would assume they're looking for something over 2/3.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
So once again we find ourselves opposed to Wisky and TSUN.
I'm joking (mostly), but could we trade Wisky for FSU?
Would LOVE to get FSU. Of course we need AAU schools if we're going to expand the conference, and FSU has the potential to be one down the line. Of course we need universities that bring us a unique market share (as least it would seem so based on the inclusion of Maryland and Rutgers), and FSU does well not only in the Florida market but has a national name-brand. But what FSU has that Rutgers, Maryland, UNC and UVA lack is football credibility. UNC and UVA are solid football programs historically, Rutgers and Maryland aren't too shabby either, but FSU is on a whole different level as a football program. The B1G has academic credibility, the B1G has a solid market share, the B1G has basketball credibility, but I'd love teams like FSU and ND to strengthen what has been seen in years passed (and could be seen once again) as a premier football conference.