It appears both use a base 4-3, but Heacock seemed to dial up more blitzes and tighter man on man coverages. So far this side of the ball hasn't passed the "eye test" for me. Are we doing anything different in schemes/coverages with this new coaching change? Anyone's feedback on the two comparisons?? GO BUCKS!
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Zero pressure. Do not understand Hankins on end. You give any receiver time they will get open. Not happy with defense or Braxtons quantity of carries
Front four(and no im not Vrabel) spence,hankins, washington, simon
where is our vaunted pass rush? last week they had an excuse, 3 step drops by the miami qb, wonder what excuse we will get for this game?
I agree....I really can't stand seeing the no rush....its pathetic and ridiculous.
Too many 3 man rushes. Too much expecting the secondary to cover for 5-6 seconds. Too vanilla defensive calls. Fick needs to call a better game.
Linebacker play was weak. Barely saw Sabino and Shazier, never saw Grant. With all the talent on the d-line there was very little pressure. Several blown coverages in secondary. Blitzes, if any, were ineffective. Defensive adjustments were slow. Beginning to doubt Fickell competence. Likewise Vrabel.
17 is too many carries for Braxton, 27 is asking for a lost season. Not any verticle stretch in passing game. Very little utilization of TE. We are now officially thin at RB. Too many blown assignments and miscues in the offensive backfield.
Special teams looked good esecially Jamal Marcus.
Im starting to worry about Fickell myself. It just seems like hes not very good at playcalling. I know Urb has zero tolerance for lackluster coaching so Fick better turn it up and unleash the D.
we didnt have one last year why would you think we"d have one this year with the same players.
BUCKEYES BABY!
Was Heacock invited to stay on ? It is only game 2 but I miss my Silver Bullets.
Who has more control? Fickle or Withers? I wonder if Withers woud get more production?
100% of unprayed prayers go unanswered
I wouldn't worry about it just yet. We've played two teams that throw pretty much only quick passes. We got good pressure when they tried to throw the ball down field.
Also, we were playing some vanilla defense and never blitzed. I'm sure we will blitz more once we hit big ten play and need to run some more exotic defenses to be successful. Good coaches never show everything they've got in the early season.
I will forever miss the Fred Pagac defense...in my opinion he made the silver bullets.
@ buckeyejason, vaunted pass rush indeed, better coaching is suppose to be the main theme this year. so again, where is the vaunted pass rush?
Corners played soft, no pass rush, i noticed 1 blitz from shazier that caused an incompletion and the one on the final play of the game but thats it
Early in the game spence was getting pressure. Towards the end it seemed to disappear.
How Firm Thy Friendship....
yea not happy w/ the D so far except them making the switch and putting orhian johnson at star, he balled out today
O'Deez330
stark county football
Its interesting because It seems like Washington followed by Spence are getting the most pressure on the QB. Didn't see a whole lot of Hankins and Simon today. I believe Steve Miller had the only sack at the end of the game
Hankins is insanely active for a 320 plus pound tackle. He was gettin pen a lot d you re watch the game.
BUCKEYES BABY!
i think hankins and simon need to step it up, simon was getting doubled all day though but hank had a few plays but was outperformed by goebel. i thought washington spence and miller were the 3 best pass rushers. miller needs more time on the feild
O'Deez330
stark county football
I haven't listened to Meyer's press conference...surely he has talked about the defense...can anyone say if he has or hasn't?
BuckeyeJason I saw his play on the goaline which was awesome and one or 2 Qb pressure other than that didn't see much from him. Definately expect a lot more out of him
I forgot about Goebel, be looked good.
Oh look Fred Flintsone has got the shades on, must have food eye.
That Service guy for Air Force is pretty good.
We obviously have trouble playing zone D...we have to be good enough to man-up and blitz more. We're letting the offense dictate everything
D. Anthony
UCF had a lot of quck passes. There were some mental errors and blown assingments, which is bad. Thankfully, its happening in weeks 1-4 and not 5-12
/Duff'd It
I'm worried about the D simply because last year's weaknesses on defense seem to still be present on this year's team: inconsistent pass rush and major breakdowns in the secondary. The secondary really pisses me off. Bryant, Howard, Barnett, and Roby -- those guys all have a lot of games under their belts. How do you let the qb throw the ball over three of our guys for 27 yards on 3rd and 21? It's the same reason every time, "lack of communication." What the hell language is everybody speaking?
Anyway, it's only game 2 and we did get the win. Trying to keep a level head. Hoping for some improvement. GO BUCKS!!
Yeah I dont know how the hell they gave up that 3 & 21!! YOu know they had to go deep and you still let a guy get behind you??!! But the dline isnt helping with the lack of pressure!! Man our D needs to step up!!!
I was at the game and I can tell you how - blown coverage - again. The guys were jawing at each other about who had the responsbility after the play was over. Pretty obvious they were blaming each other so I don't know, but the corner play was bad as a whole and there were lots of open guys. It just doesn't look like we are blitzing or hitting gaps aggressively very often for whatever reason. Meyer was pissed off and kicked the ground a few times today. I know we are better than that. Aren't we?
My first time posting to elevenwarriors, so I'm a bit intimidated, as I haven't quite memorized all the names of the defensive players... but, I will add this... wasn't Fickell the LB coach from the previous like 8 years?? Did he not coach Laurinitus and Hawk??? What happened to the star-studded LB's that OSU has sent year after to year to the NFL? I will add this... I hate that the secondary only showed some commitment and excitement in the final seconds of the game.... compared to previous years... I think the corners have gotten smaller, but they did seem to have much better conditioning... I didn't see then panting and bending over huffing.... their speed seemed better, but no intensity or aggression whatsoever. And, although it's not really the point of topic here... I would really like to see Miller throw the ball more and be less dependent on his feet, no way this kid can resort to his feet 20 times a game playing big opponents, I can live with him throwing a few interceptions this year, as long as there was improvement....
"Canceling your evening plans to prepare for your Fantasy Football Draft is completely normal." -via @espn
I do know this, IF any asst. coach is over his head, UFM won't keep them around for the sake of loyalty like our last regime.
Does anyone know if Heacock had an offer to stick around ?
Jessica Doley:
Yes Fickell was the LB coach those years. We just don't have those type of players I guess..except for Shazier. Can't have them every year I guess.
I don't think the size of the corners are relevant. I mean Howard is 6' 190..Roby is 5'11. Not much difference from Jenkins(6') or Chekwa (5'11). Roby plays with great intensity and passion and will be one of the "great ones" I think.
BUCKEYES BABY!
D is definitely lackluster so far...saw at the end of the game that Urban was giving Vrabel an ear full on the sideline. There is literally no effective pass rush. Hankins is playing well - he's doubleteamed non-stop & is still effective but where the hell is Simon right now? I'm not big on being overly crititical but these opposing QBs have way too much time to find open receivers... On the other hand - I think UCF is a very talented team - one of the best we will see this year so I hope by next week things start looking a little more like they could/should.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Simon has been getting doubled..and when he doesn't, he is getting in there to hurry the QB. I think people are expecting Simon to be Mario Williams or Von Miller..he's not people. Hes a hardworking player with a great motor who has maxed out his potential. He goes 100 percent on evey play!
BUCKEYES BABY!
Its not Fickell, as much as it is that Heacock had defensive All-Americans over his time as DC (2005-2012)
AJ Hawk, Laurinaitis and Malcom Jenkins provided him the ability to control the outside (with Jenkins) and the middle with Laurinaitis. That allowed the line to be way more aggressive and Quinn Pitcock was an All-American
This group needs to become more comfortable in the new system.
Not to mention he had guys like Heyward, Gholston, Kurt Coleman..
BUCKEYES BABY!
@buckeyejason - I just don't see Simon getting the pressure like he had in the past...I know we're only two games in but I didn't see the doubleteams on Simon the way I did with Hankins today. I'm not really knocking Simons intensity or ability as much as I'm saying I see a defense that's capable (I believe) of much better than what we've seen so far.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Heacock calls moore safty bliztes
^ Coleman, Hines, Doss, Nickey and other safeties frequently blitzed
Coleman blitzed a TON. Man, I miss Jermale Hines, dude could lay the wood. That hit he put on Adam Robinson two years ago at Iowa was insane.
We just aren't that good. Defense Line is good not special. Linebacker play is only marginally better than last year that being because last year was so horrendous. Braxton is inaccurate. O-Line cant consistently generate push against inferior teams. Just not a great FB team Right now.
Follow me @jaythesportsguy
I feel like Barnett has that deep down somewhere. I watched him in person against Miami, the game that ended his season 2 year ago, and he hit hard. CJ and the rest of the secondary can definitely hit somebody hard when they want to. I've seen glimmers this year but the whole group needs to dial it up a lot more, a lot more often.
I was at that game when he hit the WR for Miami, Hankins, I think. Then he had that nasty injury. Both Barnett and Bryant look like they can lay the wood, and they show glimpses of it, but Coleman and Hines would destroy people consistently. Remember Anderson Russell? He got crap from us as a fanbase (mainly for the Quan Cosby score), but he was pretty damn consistent during his career.
Did anyone else question when Urban accepted the penality in the 3rd qtr that gave UCF an extra down? I like his aggressive calls on offense, but I didn't like this one. Would have put them in a 4th and 6 and a field goal attempt. OSU was up 31-10 at that point.
3rd and 6 at OSU 21UCF penalty 15 yard Illegal Block on J.J. Worton accepted.
3rd and 21 at OSU 36Blake Bortles pass complete to J.J. Worton for 27 yards to the OhSt 9 for a 1ST down.
4 plays later they got the TD.
I did at first, but the penalty took them out of field goal range (well made it a 53 yard attempt). Had the defense actually made a stop UCF would have had to punt.
Many freshmen are playing. It is the second game of the season. Give it some time. Meyer ripping Vrabel should tell you a lot. They will not continue what doesn't work. If the LBs that are in there now aren't doing it the freshmen, Marcus, Williams, Perkins may get PT. Personally think they are still looking for who to play and how to play them. Give them four games. If the trend everyone's talking of continues, then they may have some issues. Until then, consider it tweaking the scheme and who they want in it.
Has Curtis Grant made a play in the first two games yet?
BUCKEYES BABY!
Curtis Grant is actually doing alright when he's on the field. He's filling the correct holes and hasnt really been out of position.
As for the D-line, UCF doubled both Hankins and Simon regularly. On obvious passing downs, Fick only rushed three more than half the time. So on these plays, he is allowing Hankins and Simon to be doubled, Goebel to go one on one, and dropping Miller or Spence into coverage. That's what happened on the 3rd and 21 play. Spence was 15 yards downfield. For all of you saying our D-Line is not as good as billed, it's hard for them to prove it when Fick is calling that crap. Not to mention that on those plays where 3 are being rushed, the other team is often keeping a TE or RB to help chip block. So we are rushing 3 against 5-6 blockers and expect pressure. This is stupidity. Any half decent receiver and QB will find an opening in zone if you give them 5-7 seconds. Especially when 3 of the guys playing the zone are LBs and a DE.
Agree with JDADAM501, on his view of what we saw yesterday on D. I believe (hope) Fick & D coaches not willing to show a whole lot yet. They must believe the caliber of teams they've played requires only basic D formula. Having said that, no excuse for blown coverages, missed tackles, improper reads.
Mike Bennett will be a difference maker once his groin gets okay. This I believe.
@tjessberger
I'm rewatching the game and am not to halftime yet. I've already counted 3 times when they dropped Hankins (!?) into coverage and rushed 3. What? What exactly is Hankins going to do in coverage? 5 years ago when Ohio State would suddenly drop Heyward into coverage it might have surprised the opposing offense. It doesn't anymore. I'm basically seeing the bad leftovers of the Tressel era in this defensive game plan. We are 5 times as talented as UCF and that's the only reason we got away with it yesterday.
Who called the plays in the past? There's been Pagac, Dantonio, Heacock, Fickell all listed but who specifically was dialing up the plays? Right around '04/'05 maybe there seemed to be a change - hard to tell how much was scheme and how much was talent and then the floodgates opened with the end of the '06 season, '07 title game, '08 USC, etc. I mean we NEVER saw opponents score much more than 24+ in our worst games prior to all that.
Thanks for the breakdown JDADAMS01. I usually don't get in to the X's and O's but I saw on a different post that Fick is calling a 4-2-5? Is that also what he ran last year? Is that also what Withers ran at UNC and what Urbs ran in Florida? Guess what I'm wondering is if they gave Fick the keys to the D and he's running a scheme that Urb & Withers aren't accustomed to. Urb getting in Fick/Vrabels stuff toward the end of the game was ... interesting.
Trotwood-Madison. Once a Ram, Always a Ram.
I think the difference is we don't blitz as much and we don't currently have linebackers that are all over the place. Christian Bryant is always a half step away or out of position but looks like he has so much promise (we've been saying that the past 2 years though). I don't think this is a lack of talent. These guys are every bit as athletic and touted as the prevous players that came through. The secondary seems confused at times and has had too many blown coverages already. Hank was a beast in the second half and Orhian Johnson had himself a fantastic game. I think this defense has boat loads of talent it just doesn't seem to be translating. I was expecting a lot more out of Shazier to this point to be a playmaker and to be that guy that's all over the place but we haven't quite seen it yet. I think that's what we're really missing that we're used to having is smart, quick linebackers that are just all over the field. We seem to be lacking that at this point. It's only two games in and I'm sure there'll be plenty of improvements.
Also, did anyone else notice at a point in the game Meyer got frustrated and went up to Vrabel and started saying something giving him hand gestures that seemed to suggest push up, get pressure. Vrabel seemed to snap back at him and was pretty visibly frustrated himself.
Yes I did and it seemed as if he said to get more pressure to me too. I can bet you that they'll dial up more next weekend and it will show a huge difference. It's lack of movement with front 4 that Meyer was talking about (as well as lack of LB blitz as well I would think). They've been playing base up front or may be slanting here and angling there(but not much pressure). Spence got pressure on one delayed blitz. Other than that...I can't think of ONE play that the Dline stunted and got pressure. Heacock lived and died by the blitz...these guys seem afraid to make a mistake...but unless you have em put their ears back and go, then the QB has all day which Dysert and UCF's guy had...and it's getting to be to blatantly obvious Meyer won't let it happen again...he's going take over or have Withers. I'm not getting out the fire Fickel and Vrabel signs just yet...but they'd better improve or it won't be the "family" vibe for long.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
The Backers looked bad. Sabino doing his patented "standing around watching the game" thing...and even Shazier not playing "up". Never understood playing LBs who do not play 100MPH all the time. I get that they have seniority, and everyone else is green as hell but...jeez. Bench Sabino (INT not withstanding) maybe it'll put a fire back in Shazier's butt. Let Perry or Marcus play. It's a "lost" year anyway.
Shazier needs to be the one they cut lose and send him to get the QB! I would let Shazier be the hellian and run around with his head on fire! I wouldnt even be as mad if we got beat in coverage becuz we were too aggressive but getting beat deep and not even putting any pressure on the QB has got to stop.
Heacock ran a hell of a lot zone, guys. Fick seems to run even more. We are not dialing up any blitzes at all. I'm hoping this is being conservative against lesser opponents and not showing a lot on film. God I hope. I hate zone. Hate it, and we can't seem to figure out deep third assignments on the outside. I want to man up, but we need to find a way to get more pressure.
I would really like to know what Meyer's philosophy is on defense....does he like soft coverage....or does he want a aggressive defense? I think by his comments he at least wants and aggressive d-line.
I hope that I am wrong but the way they are calling the Def. is like they are tring to keep something in the bag. Hardly any blitzs or no man coverage, everything zone. It looks like they are still tring to hide some stuff on the Def. but there is nothing to hide everyone knows what they can do. Please roll the coners up play press coverage and and trun the def. lose.
They do not need to run any chocolate (opposite of vanilla) plays on D yet. Blitzes will come, especially in that MSU game.
Our defense has looked VERY ordinary. Who the hell decides to put Big Hank at DE??? Rushing 3 DL makes me sick to my stomach. We are 2 games in now so all that trying to hide stuff goes out the window, why because you don't even know if it will work if you don't try it in the game. I have no problem running zone all day, but we have to get pressure w/our front 4, and if we can't get pressure w/just the front 4 then we need to blitz some. I love defense, its what I know. And as the old saying goes "pressure busts pipes".
New coordinators, new schemes. They have to master the basics before you can expect exotic play calls. Same goes for the offense. But yeah, I had higher expectations for the front 4 getting pressure this year. Is it mental?
Not to bail out Fickel, but Bennett is special. He should be back this week. I really hope they get in ther front four's ears though. I thought Schutt played well, but he is not going to be your pass rushing stud.. I feel like they need to create miss-mataches up front instead of trying to out-talent the other team. I think we will see a ton of improvement this week in the D...
I agree with Zach - patience.
When they do start generating lots of pressure, the reliance on zone will pay off. Besides, they need to get ready to play almost exlcusively zone against the likes of Nebraska (Martinez), Indy (although Roberson now out for year), possibly Purdue (Henry or Terbush), ILL (Scheelhaase), and most important against TTUN (Denard).
Vrabel is and will continue to be window dressing. I was always puzzled by this hire and by why people thought this was a good hire.
Bucktoooooth, heeyaw.
Mark Snyder was an excellent D Coordinator for the Buckeyes before he left for Marshall. He was here from 01-04, and a huge part of our national championship defense in 02. He is now the DC for Texas A&M. I wouldn't mind seeing him in Columbus again. Fickell has always had Heacock by his side, he no longer has that support and it shows a little I think. Our front 7 should be so much better, especially our D line that is loaded with depth. Go Bucks!
No one noticed that Urban's press conferences have all stated "we run X scheme, maybe we'll try Y at some point." It never sounds like he isn't 100% on board with the strategy. Urbs is famous for being involved in the play calling to one extent or another, so I wouldn't try to should the blame on Fickell or Vrabel.
Everyone here is armchairing this, yet we remain in the top 20 on a number of key statistics. There are some we lag behind (pass defense), but run defense remains top notch. Yet our front 4 aren't doing it? Calling for Ficks head when they ARE hitting the mark on a number of defensive statistics - that's just asinine.