The End of the Affair

By Ramzy Nasrallah on December 20, 2011 at 7:56p
324 Comments
Photo: Getty Images

Today the NCAA added a one-year postseason ban, four additional scholarship reductions and an additional year of probation to Ohio State's self-punishment of Jim Tressel's resignation, two years of probation (bringing the total to three), five reduced scholarships (now nine), vacating the entire 2010 season and forfeited its Big Ten bowl payout share, or roughly $338,000.

The Columbus Dispatch broke the story over an hour prior to a previously-scheduled 3pm teleconference to share the details of the verdict.

Athletic Director Gene Smith had said he did not expect a bowl ban based on historical precedent, while Urban Meyer had allegedly implied to at least one recruit (Canton running back Bri'onte Dunn) that there would not be additional punishment that would impact him personally.

The penalties came from two different Notices of Allegations, the first of which was specific to Tatgate while the second was borne out of the subsequent investigation into former quarterback Terrelle Pryor, which resulted in the university disassociating long-time booster Bobby DiGeronimo.

The added punishment extends the closure for what had been a year-long scandal through next season.

The Tatgate scandal unofficially began to unfold last December 21 when Dave Biddle of Bucknuts reported that bad news was coming in the form of improper benefits.

Two days later that news was confirmed: Several Ohio State players were found to have sold their posessions to Fine Line, Inc, a Columbus tattoo parlor, in exchange for discounted tattoos and cash.

Jim Tressel in Indianapolis for Ohio State's Aug 12 COI hearing (photo: Conroy, AP)

The initial punishment, which was universally scorned, was to commute the suspensions of the players involved to the start of the 2011 season, which allowed the guilty players to participate in the Sugar Bowl. Ohio State began its investigation against the backdrop of preparations for Arkansas.

Two months after the Buckeyes concluded their season, an anonymous source contacted Dan Wetzel and Charles Robinson of Yahoo! Sports and informed them that Jim Tressel had known about the improper benefits nearly eight months before they came to light, in effect allowing ineligible athletes to play the entire 2010 season.

Columbus attorney Christopher Cicero had emailed Tressel with the details of a pending Federal investigation into Fine Line Ink and warned him that evidence of the players' transactions with its proprietor, Ed Rife, would surface. Ohio State alleges Tressel told no one of this knowledge.

The entire Tatgate case summary could be rendered down to a single sentence: Tressel lied to the NCAA about his knowledge of infractions and played would-be ineligible players for an entire season.

What had started as a two-game suspension for withholding information on the violations grew into five games. By the time the media had turned Tressel's deliberate omission of Tatgate into a larger scheme equipped to render amateur athletics meaningless, Ohio State's Board of Trustees "encouraged" him to resign.

It not only shocked the program and the state, but it also cost Tressel about $21MM in guaranteed money from the cancelled years on his contract.

The national and local media that had added free or heavily-discounted cars to the Tatgate scandal also inserted free rounds of golf as well as endorsed personal checks for secret autograph signings.

The investigation into cars turned up no evidence of violations. DeVier Posey was later suspended for five additional games for being overpaid by DiGeronimo.

A secondary violation was alleged to have been also committed with Posey receiving free golf from Dennis Talbott in 2009 (Talbott denies the allegation) but the NCAA never contacted Talbott and neither the incident nor the violation were mentioned in the final report.

Ohio State did not earn a severe charge from the NCAA until it was handed a Failure to Monitor (FTM) charge for the DiGeronimo charges. A postseason ban, previously speculated (incorrectly) to be inevitable by the public in a lather was now considered to be in play, despite FTM not necessarily resulting in such historically.

Collateral damage to the program was significant, especially in summer recruiting which was traditionally when Tressel was at his best.

Prized OSU verbal commitment Kyle Kalis was so spooked by the punitive speculation that he switched his commitment to Michigan right after his visit with Brady Hoke. Dunn was thought for months to be following him north but recently reaffirmed his commitment to Ohio State.

The extended offseason that refused to end roared to a crescendo with Ohio State's meeting with the NCAA Committee on Infractions.

In July, immediately after the NCAA concluded its own investigation that found no further violations, ESPN sued Ohio State for access to the information that the NCAA had been privy to in its own investigation but hadn't been released publicly through FOI request due to the university's interpretation of FERPA laws.

Many in the media allowed their dislike for Ohio State and Tressel to cloud their reporting: CBS Sports' Dennis Dodd referred to Tressel's $52,000 final paycheck a golden parachute. That final check amounted to just 1.5% of what would have been his guaranteed salary for 2011 and .033% (one third of one percent) of what Tressel would have made through his now-cancelled contract.

Only after the salacious and systemic Miami scandal and the Jerry Sandusky tragedy at Penn State unfolded did public opinion at large begin to gain perspective.

Tressel deliberately failed to report players selling their own belongings for cash. It was a far cry from the rampant academic fraud at North Carolina, the systemic LOIC at Boise State across multiple sports, the openly permissible attitude at the University of Miami toward having Nevin Shapiro as the athletic department's Caligula for several years and the wholesale administrative coverup of Sandusky's serial child rape at Penn State.

Regardless, the Ohio State scandal captured the media's attention and was a national story throughout the year.

Meyer's coaching staff, along with the rest of the OSU Athletic Department, inherits next season's bowl ban, nine fewer football scholarships over the next three years as well as three years of probation.

Barring any future violations, Ohio State won't technically be free of Tatgate until December 21, 2016 when the five-year window for repeat offender status expires. The real damage to the university - its perception - may take even longer to repair.

The NCAA's verdict marks the closing of the most difficult chapter in Buckeye football history. While 2011 has already felt like punishment, now the NCAA's punishment begins for Ohio State.

324 Comments

Comments

BED's picture

Kill it with fire!

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

addman1405's picture

ed- there was an obnoxiously large picture of an obnoxiously bad AD here; appreciate the sentiment, but we need to keep image sizes down

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

could you please make the picture bigger?  It's only taking up 3/4 of my entire screen here

BED's picture

250% of my screen

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

BuckeyeSaab's picture

Looks fine on mine.

I'm sorry for not being sorry.

BED's picture

The other one. Not mine. lol

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

addman1405's picture

Roger. Did not look at image size. Totes my bad

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Sorry for my smart a$$ comment

addman1405's picture

No Kill that with FIRE!!!!! ^^^^^

The Vest-er's picture

If oregon and Miami don't get absolutely obliterated the NCAA should just shoot itself in the crotch

Fundamentals are a crutch for the talentless.

armybuckinva's picture

And South Carolina, ya know, the story that nobody even knows about because it's the SEC and ESPN is a complete fraud.

argyle182021's picture

Recruiting implications (besides the loss of scholarships)?

armybuckinva's picture

Spence, Pittman, Dunn have all confirmed today that they are still all Buckeye.

armybuckinva's picture

It was on twitter, maybe someone from 11W can back me up here since I think it was one of their accounts possibly.

Schutt was the only one

SouthPlainfieldNut's picture

Yeah, not doubting you in any way, just wanted to see it with my own eyes. The new recruits flip flopping was my biggest concern with this news.

bassplayer7770's picture

Good to hear some have confirmed their commitment.  The postseason ban will affect them in their Freshman season (if they aren't redshirted), so I'd hope it won't affect recruiting much.  However, it obviously affects our current Juniors, and do we lose more of them to the draft because of this?

Bj Mullens over Sully's picture

If we do lose some juniors, won't affect much, can't win a big 10 title or NC, let alone a BCS Bowl or any other bowl...... if they leave good luck to them at next level and hope them represt OSU well off and on field.

Favorite Buckeye: Obviously BJ Mullens

LouBuck35's picture

Geno Smitty = ultimate DERP

I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

My guess -- Gene has some dudes on the inside, told him stuff was chill -- Gene tells Meyer and Board said stuff was chill -- Meyer tells recruits and current players everything was all good and then this happens.  FFFFFFUUUUUUUUU NCAA!  

The hating on Tress today on twitter FFFFFUUUUUUUUU (looking at you, he who "never played") and others

Quit comparing what we did to USC, not close FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU

Gene Smith FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU

So, what happened with the documentation the attorney had to prove kids worked their hours?  Can someone contact the attorney and publish these documents?

 

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

So, the folks responsible are cleared by NCAA to play in Sugar Bowl after they were found guilty. The folks that had nothing to do with it can't play in a bowl next year. Yup, that sounds about right. Thank God the NCAA is looking out for the well being of the student athlete. What a fraud.

armybuckinva's picture

+100

It's complete crap for those not involved.

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

If they want to hit the school, fine. Let the kids play and make the school donate the monies earned from the bowl. Maybe that's too simple?

TheHostileDwarf's picture

This hit the nail on the head.

Fuck the NCAA. And Gene Smith. And Terrelle Pryor. I refuse to say the same about Tressel, because I do still love the guy, but yeah, he fucked things up for us pretty good.

And the kids who took from DiGeronimo certainly piled on.

Ugh.

P.S. Great write up, Ramzy.

Buckeye Chuck's picture

I guess Kyle Kalis gets the last laugh, huh?

I never blamed Smith for the initial incident that became Tatgate; those who have insisted that Tressel "must have" taken the fall for higher-ups are proceeding on no evidence. This entire fiasco lies mostly on Tressel, and at some point he's going to need to drop the evasive act and explain exactly why he thought he could get away with playing guys who were ineligible.

But everything since March has been a massive miscalculation for Smith, and the DiGeronimo thing is on the whole department (which he leads), not just Tressel. His attempt now to backpedal and say that he never would have taken a bowl ban for this 6-6 team because they "deserve" a bowl is just face-saving to hide the fact that he got surprised (again), and cost the university a possibly huge amount of money (the difference between the Gator Bowl payout and what next year's now nonexistent bowl payout would be). Without question, a firing is in order if Smith doesn't have the sense of responsibility to resign. If they want to wait till after the holidays, cool.

Rest assured all of Buckeye Nation will be watching to see if the Miamis and North Carolinas get similar treatment. Neither of those schools are in the SEC, so that's strike one  for them right there.

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

LadyBuck's picture

If by "last laugh" you be an ass kicking from Urbz and the boys for the next four or five years? Then yes, yes he will get the last laugh.

BuckeyeChris's picture

OSU should do what other programs who know they aren't going to a bowl game do...schedule a game in Hawaii in December. Hey NCAA...I gotcher bowl ban right here. 

Seabass1974's picture

We should just skip this year's Gator Bowl. Tell them to stick that in their pipe and smoke it.

The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender. - Woody Hayes

LABuckeye's picture

Regarding the servers being down... popularity can be expensive, can't it?

Jason Priestas's picture

Good problem to have.

BuckeyeSaab's picture

"The mysqli error was: User elevenwa_drup already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connections."

You should make it your new signature file.

I'm sorry for not being sorry.

Hoody Wayes's picture

With all do respect, the fact this site was down - on one of the most anticipated days in Buckeye football history -(was) not a good problem to have. It was very disappointing, to be unable to commiserate with my fellow Buckeye fans, at the moment news was breaking and for almost a couple of hours, thereafter. Consider this a critical endorsement.

We still love 11W, though! Go Bucks!

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

Would have to agree....if I was paying to be here.

LABuckeye's picture

Hoody... to be fair, presumably they are using some hosting company for this site and all of their hosting and server plans have band width / connection limits. There is no way for the 11W staff to know that when the announcement came out their servers would suddenly get pounded so hard that they would surpass those limits when they reconfigured their set-up recently.

Orlando Buckeye's picture

I think we can all agree it sucked but, let's also all agree that we are extremely glad to be back here again.

Hoody Wayes's picture

Well, I can take it on the chin. I'm not omniscient. Just disappointed. These guys do a great job with this site and we have quite a rogue's gallery of commenters, here. It's a stop along the way, you know?

LABuckeye's picture

Hoody, I'm not trying to giving it to you on the chin, if that's what you are saying. I just figured perhaps you don't understand how websites and server plans work, which is fine, most people don't. If it is your bank or a major web-based company like Yahoo or Google it makes sense to be mad because that is their business to provide a service on-line and they shouldn't have those types of problems, but 11W was a pretty small-time operation until recently (if I understand correctly) and has been growing quickly. The national recognition they are getting, while good for them, also causes problems. There is no such thing I am aware of as an open-ended service that allows you to have has many site visitors at a time as you want. You pay for tiers of service based on expected site usage. Server plans are expensive... my company is small and not web-based and we just paid $1,400 to use a pretty low-end server for a year. 11W's server costs, I assure you, are much higher than that.

Orlando Buckeye's picture

There was an essay published a while back by a Webcomic founder entitled something like, "How success nearly killed my webcomic" about this kinda thing.

ThirdLegLouie's picture

@HOODY- Just make out a substantial check to 11W, and then you can never be personally inconvenienced by this problem again. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target

 
Dean's picture

Thank goodness it was only that! I was afraid we'd gotten a one year blog ban, too!

Doc's picture

First off, did any of you have any trouble getting on the site for the past 2 1/2 hours.  my puter was saying the web site didn't exist.

Secondly, FUCK YOU NCAA & Gene Smith.  How Smith is still employed after this year long FUBAR is beyond me.  He is supposed to be an infractions savant and the only thing he has been able to do is piss down his leg for the past year.  Thanks alot Gene you fucking moroon.  Should have stayed home this bowl season and reloaded for next year, but noooooooooooo.  Now the Tat 5 guys get to play in a bowl their senior season, while everyone left is holding the bag.  Should have taken the bowl ban this year you worthless sack of crap.

Sorry for the rant.  If I'm banned because of this it was nice knowing all of you.

 

Go Bucks!

Doc

"Say my name."

frozen buckeye's picture

yeah, the site was unavailable.  Figured we had overloaded it with shared angst. 

Jason Priestas's picture

Sorry for the site being down, folks. This is the second time we've had to double capacity this football season, but we should be future-proof for a while now.

Thanks for your patience. I know it couldn't have happened at a worse time.

AltaBuck's picture

I thought it was a DDDoS attack (Distributed Derp Denial of Service)

I can help you with some DDDoS mitigation so we can filter out the asshole trolls at the network level before they suck up bandwidth and processing power.

 

I have been known on occasion to howl at the moon. - Crash Davis

Orlando Buckeye's picture

 

PLEASE FIRE GENE SMITH.  If we sat this year's bowl game the people who actually committed the violations would be the one's to lose a bowl game. I hate several things right now.  Scotch, scotch will calm my anger.

tampa buckeye's picture

Why can't we sit this years bowl?  

Orlando Buckeye's picture

I believe because we've already agreed to go, but I'm all for pulling out the stops and leaving the Gator bowl hanging.  

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Some of us have tickets, kind sir.....

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

Orlando Buckeye's picture

Damn, the tickets! To hell with the tailgaiting!  Maybe you can unload them to a Gator fan before the appeal!

theDuke's picture

This means that the misgivings of S.Carolina's ath. department should with no uncertainty warrant a Death Penalty for their program. The athletic departmen in Columbia signed off for improper benefits knowingly. Oh wait, i don't think any media has picked up on this yet, so therefore the NCAA doesn't know about it either... hmmmm..

theDuke

frozen buckeye's picture

Fuck 'em.  We'll do next season what we had hoped to do this season.  B1G championship game goes without the conference's best team.  The _______ bowl (BCS??) suffers without the support of BuckeyeNation.  Fuck 'em. 

Yamosu's picture

Do I like the NCAA?  Not at all.  That said, this is on OSU.  We cheated, got caught.  Don't give the NCAA an opportunity to pass judgement and we won't have an opportunity to complain about them. 

This is on us, we miss a bowl.  Gene Smith still sucks though for the poor handling of this.

As for the future, I don't think this has any long-term impacts.  82 scholarships per year instead of 85.  Miss next years bowl which would only affect this recruiting class which is now in the top 10.  OSU will be out to embarass people in the next few years and I am looking forward to it.

BED's picture

The inconsistency is why the NCAA deserves our wrath, not the punishment per se.  Auburn pays a QB $280K, gets off scott free.  We get a 1 year bowl ban for some kids selling their own stuff and getting a few hundred bucks for a charity appearance/work they may or may not have actually done.  Inconsistent results = worthless piece of shit institution.

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

rider1's picture

Can't begin to say how happy I am that I can put all of this behind me! What a $h1tty year 2011 was. Go Bucks -go Coach! Like a Phoenix let's rise from this cleansing fire. Thank you recruits and current players- we love you and will always support you! We are family...

LouBuck35's picture

Can't truly fault the NCAA in this one.  Granted, it is Keystone Cops with them most of the time, but once the Bobby D stuff came to light, I never felt great about it.  Ultimately, much of this shared angst has to come back to Tressel.  He had every opportunity to do the right thing by the university and didn't do it. And the NCAA hammered him for it.  Think of the absurdity of everything surrounding the Sugar Bowl (bowl that will not be named)...Tressel KNOWING the players were busted, KNOWING that he misled the NCAA, made the players say they would come back for the next season in order to play in that game?  It is totally crazy from a hindsight standpoint.  Even the NCAA said today, the only reason they were permitted to play was because they thought OSU had no prior knowledge.  Ugh. I would of rather just tanked that season, suspended the Tat 5, eaten our crow and gone without all of this. 

With all that being said, it's not the worst thing in the world, the Urbz Train will keep rolling and we'll be back far sooner than later.

PS...hearty FU to Gene and all of his "precedence" talk and his stupid winks and BS AD speak.  Boots to asses Gene, here's your box.

I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

Buckeyebrowny919's picture

i need recruitment info...now...

To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift - Steve Prefontaine

Alex's picture

all those I spoke to say everything is fine....don't expect this to be too much of an impact because it's only 1 year

Buckeyebrowny919's picture

i was more worried about the recent recruits..thank you for semi easing my pain today...can't bring back my drywall that some of my remote took out though.. :-\

To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift - Steve Prefontaine

BuckNut1070's picture

Yeah....that was my biggest concern!! We will rise above this...and be a better organization for it. As far as the new recruits go...stay with us guys...we trust in your word!! You'll never find an more dedicated, loyal fan base in all of College Football. GO BUCKEYES!! 

 

Dumb question...but if we whip everyones ass next season, are we banned from the B1G Championship game as well?

 
------------------------------------------------------------
"The height of human desire is what wins, whether it's on Normandy Beach or in Ohio Stadium."  ~Woody Hayes~

NC_Buckeye's picture

Yes, we are banned from the B1G CCG as well according to by-laws that were put in place after UN-L joined.

BuckeyeChief's picture

Yes. That was why UCLA went to the Pac 12 championship game.

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

LABuckeye's picture

Frustrated about the bowl ban, but, if we can keep our current verbals on board I am just happy that we have this over with and can move on. Let's hope we take out our bowl-ban frustration on Michigan next year the same way USC did to UCLA this year.

Marshall's picture

Not comparing OSU to USC in terms of crimes, but there are pages to be pulled from the USC playbook.  OSU is going to bring a talented football team to the stadium this November to play a team from up north that will probably be thinking about BCS games and B1G titles.  More than what USC did to UCLA, I say we make the USC win over Oregon the framework for The Game.  Oregon was looking at going to the national championship until they got Trojaned.  Let's do the same to those dirtbags from up north.  Crush their every little hope or dream for the year with a humiliating defeat.  2012 is a one-game season...maybe we can't go bowling, but can sure as can be do our part to keep TSUN away from their adorable little hopes and dreams.  Run the score.  Show them up north how worthless they still are.

Go Bucks. Now more than ever.  Let's cut down some nets in April for good measure as well.

Marshall
2002 graduate of The Ohio State University
National champs.  Coincidence?

MilwaukeeBuck's picture

As a displaced buckeye in wisconsin, I would argue that it's a 2 game season. I would love nothing more than urbz taking down biff bielema in madison followed up by a thrashing of Jabba the Hoke in C-bus. I will still have to endure the cheeseheads going to the B1G championship as the bucks will be ineligible and ped state out of the picture next year though. :(

Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

And make sure we go for three after every TD.

On the wall guarding the North Coast from all Weasel invasions.

Doc's picture

It is time to tell Posey and Herron et.al. to pack their shit they are done.  No bowl for you.  Fuck Off!

 

I've already e-mailed EGG my dis-satisfaction over Smith.  Don't worry I was very professional.

"Say my name."

F O U R's picture

This isn't on Posey, Herron and the other three who got free tattoos.  This is on their coach who lied to cover it up.  And it's on the dipshit AD for acting like a spoiled child regarding the NCAA.  The NCAA made an example out of tOSU because Smith has been parading around the country saying we were safe.

cronimi's picture

Actually, as the Bobby D problem is what pushed the FTM charge, it absolutely is on Posey as well as the others who took money from that booster. Tressel certainly has his blame, but you cannot absolve the players who committed the infractions in the first place.

Squirrel Master's picture

This is all on Posey and Herron and the rest of tat5. If they didn't go and trade shit for tats then this whole thing wouldn't have even started! how can you say this is not on them! This is not a chicken or egg situation. THEY STARTED IT!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Mush's picture

If I were Coach Meyer, I would react "NO BOWL GAME, HELL WE DON'T". WE HAVE ONE AND IT IS NOVEMBER 24th IN OUR HOUSE. This team needs to take on the mentality of the '70's Oakland Raiders !!!

Doc's picture

Excellent point Mush.  Treat the skunk bears like the used tampons they are and totally kick the crap out of them, along with everyone else.

"Say my name."

BED's picture

So much this.

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

BraveandBold's picture

Run the table and win the AP NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LABuckeye's picture

Nice thought, but I think that would only work if we were the only undefeated team and the Big Ten has a good year overall.

tampa buckeye's picture

Look we weren't winning it all next season anyway.  Chill out It's Basketball season and we have the number 2 team in the country. Go Bucks!

Seabass1974's picture

I was thinking this exact same thing!!!

The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender. - Woody Hayes

Riggins's picture

I'll accept this bowl ban and move on, though I would have preferred the bowl ban be this year.  Nobody will convince me that the NCAA knows the bowl ban next year hurts us more and they stalled the verdict, but whatever. I'm glad to have the investigation behind us. I think the punishment is fine/slightly harsh, but we'll deal.  Reading Twitter makes me wonder what would satisfy the bloodlust of some people who are crying that we "got off easy", "slap on the wrist", etc.

Buckeye_Mafia's picture

Atleast there is closure. As for the recruits, they come to play at tOSU. And having Meyer at the helm should only make it easier to land them. He will have an entire off season to recruit now. Sucks for the seniors and the guys new to the team, but it should be a motivating and eye-opening experience for them to stay in their respective lanes. This ish cannot happen here again. Who cares if it happens else where. That doesn't change tOSU. As for the university's national perception....it doesn't and shouldn't matter. Employers aren't going to turn a tOSU grad away from a job they are qualified for because of this. If they do, probably don't want to work for them anyway...

Adolphus Washington is half grizzly bear and half dragon | Noah Spence kills quarterbacks, just to watch them die.

LABuckeye's picture

The last company I worked for in Laguna Beach (I now co-own a company) was so impressed with my work they hired two more Ohio State graduates and almost hired a fourth, simply because they were from Ohio State. Boss said something about the values and work ethic of "those midwesterners" that was lacking in native Californians.

SouthPlainfieldNut's picture

I can say, quite confidently, the company I work for now hired me solely because of the resume I put together while I was at Ohio State. Believe me, the Ohio State degree carries a lot of weight.

Buckeye_Mafia's picture

These two posts are exactly what I am saying. The national.perception of tOSU that matters is the diploma you get upon graduation. The national perception of the football program and athletics department don't mean shat. Who cares if the people on the West coast or down south dislike our football program? When the perception starts affecting paychecks, then we should care. Otherwise, eff national.perception. It doesn't sign checks or win ball games.

Adolphus Washington is half grizzly bear and half dragon | Noah Spence kills quarterbacks, just to watch them die.

dsbgobux's picture

AMEN Brothers! I was offered 4 jobs a month before graduation in 1997 because of the quality of education I obtained at The Ohio State University! Missing a bowl sucks, but coming back in '13 and winning it all will be priceless!

Buckeye in PA purgatory

Menexenus's picture

Someone remind me again why we didn't take a bowl ban this year (when we were barely eligible anyway)???

Can we back out of the Gator bowl now?  Probably not, huh?  We've already gotten the extra practices.

This blows...

Real fans stay for Carmen.

F O U R's picture

Gene. Effing. Smith. 

Johnny Ginter's picture

for all of you wondering why we didn't just try for the self bowl ban this year: it's because gene smith completely miscalculated and gambled that we weren't going to get a bowl ban. it's a stupid mistake that pretty much everyone saw through but assumed that because of smith's prior connections the the infractions committee, he knew something we didn't.

turns out he didn't know a damn thing, and he needs to be fired. like, yesterday.

Menexenus's picture

Did the NCAA's decision include anything about JT?  Did he get a show-cause penalty like many were predicting?  If so, how long?  Thanks.

Real fans stay for Carmen.

Johnny Ginter's picture

he did. five years show cause.

cronimi's picture

Five-year show-cause for the Senator.

Menexenus's picture

Man, that is total bullshit!  Go over to wikipedia and check out the blatant stuff you had to do in the past to earn a 5-year show-cause.  Tressel's stuff isn't even in the same ballpark as that stuff.  Clearly, the NCAA had it in for us.

In the future, f#ck self-reporting *anything* to the NCAA!!!  Make them prove it.  The Cam Newton case shows that they can't prove anything unless you admit it to them first.

Real fans stay for Carmen.

spqr2008's picture

absolutely, we need to teach all of our athletes to lawyer up, and not lawyers from the athletic department either.  Tressel should sue them, they violated his 5th amendment rights (right against self incrimination).  He could have reported the violations at once and gone to jail for felony obstruction of justice, or perjured himself and violated a few contracts.  I would violate contracts and commit perjury every time.  At most you can plea bargin down to a misdemeanor.

NC_Buckeye's picture

That is the approach USC took and look at the results (even with the press being unable to dig anything up due to no FOIA... private university). However, If it weren't for the Bush lawsuit, USC might have been able to get away with no self-reporting.

A better approach might be what Auburn did which was to lawyer up for the entire investigation.

Devin1024's picture

NCAA President: "Hey, someone get the new guy on the Ohio State case!  Where is the new guy?"

New Guy: "Huh?"

NCAA President: "I need you to take care of this thing at Ohio State; they pissed off ESPN so we better do something so ESPN doesn't get mad at us."

Time goes by..........

NCAA President: "New guy; what did you decide to do about that Ohio State thing?"

New Guy: "Well, I decided to wait until all of the coaches and players that caused the whole mess were up and gone and then punish the players and coaches that weren't even there when it happened."

NCAA President: "Perfect, I like it!  Here, new guy, take an extra million dollars from the petty cash; we will get some more when all the profit from the Gator Bowl comes pouring in."

Buckeye Chuck's picture

Smith is now saying the voluminous research of the athletic department (um, this IS a university, right?) only went back a few years, and that's how he formulated his belief that the NCAA wouldn't issue a bowl ban? The NCAA has precedents for such a ban within the last decade, and Smith actually believed they wouldn't be deemed relevant because of how long ago it was! My God, they're even more incompetent than I thought, and my opinion couldn't have gotten much lower.

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

cronimi's picture

Just saw the Time Magazine headline:  "Ohio State Hit with One-Year Bowl Ban Over Bribery Scandal."  WTF?? Bribery scandal?!?! One can say it was many things, but I don't think bribery would would be in the lexicon of anyone who was even vaguely aware of the facts.

Menexenus's picture

If Gene Smith has a *shred* of honor, he will resign immediately.  (Unfortunately, it has been clear for a long time that he doesn't.)

Real fans stay for Carmen.

spqr2008's picture

Well, thank you NCAA for that birthday present.  I will remember it, and when my guerilla war against you and your arbitrary enforcement division commences, you will remember and think,   "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill it with a terrible resolve."  My thank you note will be in the mail a**holes!

Orlando Buckeye's picture

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

OSUNeedles's picture

Ezekiel 25:17... well played...

BED's picture

Royale with Cheese...

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

joel121270's picture

Yeah, I hope it doesn't hurt the current recruits...otherwise, what can we do...I think it's crap but I am in agreement that Geno needs to move on now!

bucknut24's picture

To me the NCAA is a total joke applying the rules however they want.  I just looked and Boise State got a LOIC earlier this year and they didn't get a bowl ban.  How many teams in the SEC and ACC has committed heinous violations and they don't get a bowl ban.  The punishment doesn't fit the crime IMHO.

Fuck the NCAA!!!!!

jack's picture

all this for players selling what was rightfully theirs.

hate this whole AAU/NCAA notion of amateur status.

these guys are working for peanuts to make money for the school, the NCAA, and gawd knows who else.  agk!

and what's worse, the offenders are all gone, or will be soon.

 

Riggins's picture

Actually, I think what earned them the bowl ban was the transactions with that jock-sniffing twat DeGeronimo.  I.e. the no-show jobs, and cash-filled envelopes that Pryor, Posey and others were involved with.

Without that "booster" (if you could call him that) issue, I don't think we get the bowl ban.

NC_Buckeye's picture

I agree with that. No bowl ban without a FTM. No FTM without the DiGeronimo violations.

AltaBuck's picture

Hah..beat me to it.

I have been known on occasion to howl at the moon. - Crash Davis

AltaBuck's picture

Agreed....no way tOSU gets slapped with a post season ban without a FTM violation which was caused by the DeGeronimo BS.

I have been known on occasion to howl at the moon. - Crash Davis

Baroclinicity's picture

Looking forward to moving on.  Finally.

When you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

lamplighter's picture

any legal eagles out there?  does JT have any basis to challenge the 5 year ban?

johnblairgobucks's picture

NCAA knew about Tatoo issue before last Sugar Bowl and Suspended players for the 2011 season, as punishment.  The Only thing  that came out after the Sugar Bowl was that Tressel Lied about previous Knowlege.  I'ld say OSU self imposed penalties coupled with Jim Tressel getting let go, were approapriate penalties for lying to NCAA.  NCAA's penalties were too harsh, IMO. 

cronimi's picture

Don't forget the Bobby DiGeronimo affair was post-Sugar Bowl and resulted in the FTM charge.  No FTM = no bowl ban. So Posey, et al. allegedly taking money for services not performed is the reason for the bowl ban, not JT lying about tatgate. Granted, if they were reversed and the DiGeronimo stuff came out before tatgate it might be tatgate resulting in FTM and bowl ban, but that's not how it went down. The DiGeronimo situation eliminated the ability to lay all blame on Tressel.

Red Shirt Ensign's picture

If the NCAA had any integrity it would sit this years team (ya know... The team that has the rule breakers still on it. We should self regulate and stay home this year too

Ncaa is just showing they are all about the cash that the bowl will bring. You don't think this could have been finished even 3 weeks sooner? Puhlease

If a junior leaves he's probably doing Meyer a favor by giving him a scholarship to go after someone who is probably better... With no bowls etc... This would actually help in the long run

"Statistics always remind me of a fellow who drowned in a river where the average depth was only three feet." - Coach Woody Hayes

 

johnblairgobucks's picture

any thoughts Meyer backs away from OSU, claiming Gene Smith promised a work environment he now doesn't have?

cronimi's picture

No way, no how. Read Urban's statement (linked in Buckshots). A one-year bowl ban will hurt his program-building only negligibly, if at all.  The schollies hurt more, but aren't disastrous.  He's in for the long haul (read: at least 4-6 years).  I would say he'd use this to get more money out of the school like Golden did with Miami, but I think he already damn-near broke the bank.

johnblairgobucks's picture

I read his statement, but Myer has been known to change his mind on coaching, after a days contemplation.

johnblairgobucks's picture

I guess Michigan will be our Home Bowl Game next year. 

BuckeyeChief's picture

@ Tampa: I'm pissed right now and expected more negativity from you. You let me down with your positivity.
@ Brutus, where ever you are: thoughts?
@ Pam: are you writing a letter, e-mail, what? Let me know...

I can't argue with the penalties, but the bowl ban should've been this year.
S Carolina, Miami, Oregon and N Carolina better get hammered.

Congrats, Auburn. Maybe Gene Chizik can write a motivational book on how to get away with cheating.

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

tampa buckeye's picture

Things are going great Chief.  The only negative thing I could say is why let ohio state play in the sugar bowl and gator bowl then serve a 1 year ban?  

 What can I say though...the glass is half full.  Should be fun to watch the basketball team this season and the football team is rolling in 5 star recruits. They even appear to be locked in after the hammer dropped.  

The football team can focus on being the best team they can and not on winning it all.  Which wasn't going to happen next season anyway.  

Go Bucks!

BuckeyeChief's picture

Just joking; even when I try to be positive, it comes out negative. Bowl ban this year would've been better.

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

tampa buckeye's picture

What pisses me off is we should have stayed home this year.  How long does it take to make a decision?  The NCAA screwed us twice.  We should have just played TP and co. and said do what you want NCAA we are going to win the whole damn thing this year.

BuckeyeChief's picture

Yep. The shame of it all, is somehow, the national perspective of us is worse than N and S Carolina, Miami, Boise, and Oregon combined.

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

tampa buckeye's picture

If you need something to cheer you up go over to buckeyeplanet.com and check out what Spence's family is saying.

Brutus's picture

Chief, as I posted below, I feel a little bad that I didn't get here with the information sooner.  I found out and posted only minutes before the Dispatch broke the story.  I've been fortunate enough to have someone who would break the really bad news about the football program to me, usually a few days before it became public.  Whevever possible, I tried to give everyone here a heads up.  I found that bad news was easier to take if I heard it from someone I knew, rather than reading some slanted article on the internet. That's why I shared the info here.  I don't know any of you, but sort of, I do.

When I was told that we were getting a bowl ban, my only feeling was that i needed to get to the internet fast to spread the word here (incidentally, I can't get 11W on my Blackberry anymore at all. Anyone else have this problem?). I felt nothing about the bowl ban. I wasn't surprised or pissed or relieved.  To borrow a too often used phrase, it is what it is.  I don't blame JT or Pryor or Posey or Smith or that stupid booster.  They all f-ed up and they know it and they've been held accountable.  Unfortunately, a lot of other kids who had absolutely nothing to do with this have been held accountable too.

Which brings me to my next point.  The only sentiment that I feel strongly about right now is the NCAA.  In a word, three words actually, fuck the NCAA.  This is a clueless and worthless organization.  Not because they punished OSU and it's players and by extension a very large fan base.  But because they serve no real purpose whatsoever. They contribute nothing tangible to the idea of amateur athletics.  All they do is make seemingly arbitrary rules, enforce said rules, and make profits.  This from a tax exempt organization which rakes in nearly a billion dollars a year.  While it would be nice to see the NCAA be equitable in their punishments for a change, I really have no interest in seeing what they do to Miami or Oregon or UNC or whoever.  The more they can get away with their arbitrary punishments, the more they are empowered and will continue doing it.  In a way, I admire the SEC.  They basically just give a big F-U to the NCAA and they continue to get away with it.  If more conferences would come around to this idea, college athletics would be better off.  I'm not saying we don't need some sort of governing body in college athletics, we just don't need the NCAA in its current form anymore.

Done ranting.

BuckeyeChief's picture

Thanks for the response.

As for me, there are a lot of angles to point my emotions. What a f#cked situation all around, and outside of you guys here, i'm done talking about it.

You know it's f#cked when your trash talking PSU, Miami and ND fans aren't talking to you.

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

Denny's picture

Gene Smith, eh? Welp, seeya later.

Taquitos.

matti's picture

at least it wasnt in the "greybox"

gene smith derp derp bollman walrus like derp. also think there would have been no bowl ban except for the booster job thing so anybody see that douche kick him in the nuts for me.

finally this is over done with (thank god)  meyer is going to recruit his ass off, and in eleven months tOSU rolls that scum and that fat bastard coach by 40.

 

popeurban's picture

What is going to happen if/when DiGeronimo shares more dirt about us?  I remember him saying something to the effect of "if people think I am the only one doing this here, they are crazy". 

I just hope this is the end...

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Where did you read that? I remember the atty for OSU saying they had documents proving they did work but the NCAA wouldn't look at them.

zosima's picture

That was the second thing I thought of when I heard the bowl ban... the NCAA is really looking out for the student ath-o-letes... guilty without a chance to prove your innocence and then punish the next man up.

 

The first thing I though is how could Gene Smith be this bad at what he does?

Maestro's picture

For certain there is more dirt out there to be found, but the NCAA doesn't have the staff to dig for it.  They depend on the schools to police themselves.  The Digeronimo stuff most likely doesn't come to light if Pryor wasn't so desperate to become eligible for the Supp Draft. 

There is dirt at every program, and if the NCAA wants to dig they will find something.  I feel you on hoping that our turn as the NCAA punching bag is over.

vacuuming sucks

dbit's picture

I can't wait until its one of those high and mighty SEC schools....

Hoody Wayes's picture

Advantage: Urban Meyer, who - under lowered expectations - can truly recalibrate this football program. It could be akin to coaching a whole season - a year - in advance. 

 

SouthPlainfieldNut's picture

Agreed, I was thinking the same thing.

LadyBuck's picture

So, Urbz, what do you say about putting 70+ on Michigan next year? Just for kicks and giggles? Since, you know, we got the bowl ban that 50% of us thought wouldn't come.

Squirrel Master's picture

hell ya. and also go undefeated to make the NCAA look like a bunch of jackasses. You won't let us in, we'll beat everyone and their mother and show you how fake your NC is when we are the true best team out there. :)

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Squirrel Master's picture

What would be soooooo awesome is if Meyer goes out and still brings in Diamond, Dodson and Diggs into this recruiting class and take the hit for 2-3. Go ahead and get some of the lost schollies out of the way and still bring in some OT and a top athlete.

I like what everyone is saying is that this is liveable compared to what USC went through and they are still prominent. I don't like it but I feel like this is going to be okay.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Bucksfan's picture

I'm IRATE at this unprecedented punishment.  But, on the positive side, it's 1 bowl ban in a year when we wouldn't be going to the national title anyway.  The one that stings is the good shot at the Rose Bowl.  But let's hypothetically say we don't get to the Big Ten championship game anyway in a 9-3 season, do we care about missing the f'ing Capitol One bowl or BCS at-large against Clemson or some Big-12 runoff?

F'ck it.  F'ck Michigan.  F'ck the tat-5 and Tressel.  Let's just look forward to ruining the lives of people on the football field, or at least watching the Buckeyes get more Meyer'd while trying.

Squirrel Master's picture

I feel bad for Simon, Nate Williams and the others. They don't deserve this. As a fan I can live with this, somewhat. but this is seriously wrong to do to good innocent players who will not be able to enjoy their senior year! sad.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Bucksfan's picture

I'm with you to an extent.  But they're warriors.  They know nothing is guaranteed, and that you have to just keep plugging at it.

What I hope happens is that these kids stay the hell away from free sh*t.  Go to class, lift weights, practice football.  And beat Michigan.  That's you're life, and that's it.  Stick to it.  If you can handle those 4 things, then maybe go do some community service and start padding your resume for when the NFL doesn't come calling.

gneptuneproductions's picture

Bowl games are so overrated.. if they run the table, beat Penn State, Wisky, Michigan, or ruin any team's season they will be enjoyi their senior year

JakeBuckeye's picture

If they can't enjoy their senior year because of this than I question them as people. The Ohio State University has a lot more to offer than a bowl experience and I think all of next year's seniors will tell you the same thing. They are all blessed to be going to this amazing university for free. Sure, I feel bad for them to a small extent, but other people have real issues in life.

Squirrel Master's picture

Well I am sure they will enjoy their senior year but come on. They are being told today, right now that they will not be able to compete for a bigten or national championship. They can't decide it on the field. For that I feel bad for them. Call them warriors, call the men and say it should not deminish their senior year. I say BS.

They will play and they will say all the right things and play their hearts out but you all know that this stings a bit and really sucks for them. They had nothing to do with this and they have to deal with it for the last 2 years of their college careers. They are already proving their loyalty by not transferring. So they are already warriors and true buckeyes. just give them some thoughts that they will not get the opportunity they deserve, the chance to prove they are the best.

that is why I say its sad.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Bucksfan's picture

I'm not going to argue with you about it.  It's my opinion.  You can have yours.  Move on.  Meyer is our man now.

JakeBuckeye's picture

Are you a bit emotional unstable right now? He never said that Tressel was our guy or that he hadn't moved on, he just wasn't sharing your "fuck Tressel" sentiment. Calm down and don't put words in people's mouths.

gneptuneproductions's picture

F'ck Woody Hayes right? I mean he also made a huge mistake that ended his coaching career. No? F'ck em for being human! And I like Urban Meyer as much as the next guy and glad he's our coach, I just have alot of respect for Tressel.

JakeBuckeye's picture

You need to move on man. Its been over 30 years since Woody was fired and you are still talking about him. Meyer is our guy now. Move on.

/sarcasm

gneptuneproductions's picture

I gotta get rid of my Archie avatar and move on! He doesn't play anymore, wtf was I thinking!? I need to move on! :P

JakeBuckeye's picture

For the record, thank you for the video productions. I've been following since the 2011-2012 season preview.

Bucksfan's picture

Three cheers for James Patrick Tressel!  I know he left the program far worse off than the one he inherited, but gosh darn it, he beat Michigan and that's A-O-K by me!  Sure, the man may have ran multiple programs that were rampant with players taking improper benefits, at least 3 of which cost him championship chances at Ohio State, but who doesn't, amirite?!  At least he won a lot of footballs games!

/sarcasm.

Texas Buckeye's picture

As a current student, I am obviously upset with the ruling and the fact that we will not be going to a bowl game this year. With that being said, just a few thoughts:

1. I've read on ESPN and other sites that the majority of commentors say that tOSU got off light. They are entitled to their own opinion, but I disagree with them. The biggest thing that has bugged me is that people are comparing this to USC. Based on the facts of both cases, I don't think you can make too much of an argument that our case was worse. But like I said, if some people want to feel that way, more power to them.

2. I am glad that finally we can put this scandal behind us. Now that this is in the rearview mirror, I'll be looking forward to future seasons where Urban Meyer and the Buckeyes will run roughshod over the B1G.

3. Gene Smith has to go. His massive miscaluclation really cost us. I feel horrible for the seniors next year who were not involved in this scandal and I will be rooting for these guys even harder next year.

4. Even after everything that happened this year, I am still proud to call myself a student at The Ohio State University. I would not be where I am today without the school offering me a scholarship to attend one of the best schoools in the country. For that, I am forever grateful.

Go Bucks!

It's true... We really are a bunch of nuts!
Go Bucks!

Bucksfan's picture

You won't see people tipping over news vans tonight in Columbus.  So at least we can hang our hats on that, right?

Maestro's picture

USC fans need to move the eff on, and quit comparing everything to their situation.  I had an exchange with a USC a-hole today who pre-release of the punishment said that OSU would "skate" on the punishment today.  After the release I asked him if he cared to retract his idiotic statement.  NOPE.  He still says OSU "skated".  What a freaking moron.

vacuuming sucks

Brutus's picture

Sorry I couldn't get the news about the bowl ban earlier.  I'm on the west coast and by the time I found out that today was the day, I was a little late in contacting my source.  Perhaps reading the news here ahead of time would have softened the blow a little, but probably not.  I posted the news on the grey-box-of-death a few minutes before the Dispatch broke the story.  As I was scrambling to post the information, I was reading through all the other comments and was struck by how NONE of us saw this coming.  Sure, some speculated that it was possible, but all indications were that we wouldn't get hit with a bowl ban.  Meanwhile, it seems most every other fanbase out there seemed to think a bowl ban was inevitable, or at the very least, probable. Perhaps that's what make this news so tough to swallow.  We were sold a bill of goods by Smith and we were all too eager to believe it.  But in the end, everyone else was right and we are left to look like the naive fools. 

It's f-ing ridiculous (no 'e') that we care so much about this stuff.  Just remember, if this is the biggest problem in your life right now, then consider yourself lucky.

JakeBuckeye's picture

Everyone should calm down. If somebody told us this would be the final punishment back in early June we would all be ecstatic. These are managable sanctions. If Meyer is the coach we think he is, we should come out of these unscathed. If you ask me, we deserved this, but I don't want to get into that argument with any of you. Gene Smith and Urban Meyer were incredibly stupid to be so public about the impossibility (in their mind) of significant additional penalties, even telling recruits straight to their face there won't be any. That was Meyer's first mistake as head coach at The Ohio State University. Hopefully we don't see many more in the future.

Go Bucks.

Squirrel Master's picture

well perhaps they didn't get recruits right to their face their wouldn't be a bowl ban. I haven't read anywhere that that was what they were telling them. Meyer very well could have been telling them that 1. even if there is a bowl ban that this would hardly affect your time at OSU and 2. look how well USC is doing during their sanctions.

Maybe they were telling us the public all this to keep us from doing what we are doing right now and effect the public perception.

plus I would have been ecstatic if this came out in June because it would have been this years bowl. Just sucks it will be this next year and I really just feel bad for the senior players. Doesn't affect me or my fandom one bit!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Bj Mullens over Sully's picture

Have to agree with Jake, even though I would prefer not to have a bowl ban, I believe it could've have been much worse with the failure to monitor charge.  We're all gonna enjoy watching the 12 games we get to play next year even if theres no outback bowl or alamo bowl at the end(not like those really mean much except money for schools and NCAA).  After next season, we'll have the fun speculating how far Urban can take this team, and then watching the team in 2013.

Favorite Buckeye: Obviously BJ Mullens

BrewstersMillions's picture

Seriously folks....we got a just punishment and probably got off easy if most people had their way. Its all good fun and let the pundits get their shots in. Meyer will finish this class strong and recruit towards 2013. He gets a full year and won't have this hanging over our head when he recruits kids who wont be coming into this. Those same pundits are going to look real funny when our feet are firmly planted in everyone of our opponent's asses in the years to come and they have to accept our ultimate supremecy.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

Maestro's picture

Yes, let's curb stomp Florida, close out a solid recruiting class, win 10 games next year, and keep the train rolling into 2013 with a serious NCG run.

vacuuming sucks

Cross Village's picture

May we NEVER  - not even once - hear the refrain "In Tressel We Trust".

His moral anyeurism has forever disfigured the meaning "Ohio State" to anyone with a sense of decency.  

tressel's (small t) blatant ethical failure is only exacerbated by his books (hyper-hypocracy) and his bible thumping at christian fellowship revivals for the last 10 years.  Holy smoked!  It all makes we wince. 

Many of his defenders site his record versus U of Mud.... but that is all tarnished beyond repair.

19 and 20 year old Booms and TPs and Deviers do dumb stuff.... dependably.   Someone 59 named tressel doesn't get the same forgiveness.

Also, Gene Smith should do the honorable thing and apply for a job at a Wendy's drive thru.   He should fall on his sword and save the gutless Gordon Gee the embarrassment of doing the only reasonable thing.... and after Gordon Geeck0 gave Smith a ripping positive job evaluation in the last 60 days, should fire himself as well.

Cross Village's picture

Bout like I expected.

Underestimating your intelligence is impossible.

JakeBuckeye's picture

Whenever I read your comments I imagine you with a cup of hot tea on your favorite leather coach with your butler serving you caviar as you're telling your other butler what to type on Eleven Warriors. 

Take that as you will. I'm sure smug people like you are smug on purpose.

ThirdLegLouie's picture

There is NO excuse for what Tressel did and this is coming from someone who was a HUGE fan. The 5 year show cause penalty for Tressel wasn't enough for him. If he never steps on campus again, it'll be too soon. 

If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target

 
Menexenus's picture

Dude, you're way off base.  5-year show-cause was way over the top.  Take a look at what it took in the past to get a 5-year show-cause and then tell me how what Tressel did is even in the same ballpark.  And as far as never letting him step on campus again, if he came back *tomorrow,* I'd help organize the welcome-home parade.

Real fans stay for Carmen.

Sgt. Elias's picture

Glass houses..Stones...etc. You never effed up? Bully for you. Anyway, congrats on unlocking the "HYPERBOLE" achievement.

"Okay -- I've got an El Camino full of rampage here." 

toledobuckeyefanjim's picture

I think OSU will be fine, regardless of the post-season ban for one year and 9 scholarship losses. ESPN thinks the Buckeyes will survive well. It is sure not as bad as USC losing 30 scholarships over 3 years and being banned for post-season play for two years. To me, being kicked off TV for a year would do more harm. Even though the Buckeyes can't go to a B1G title game or a bowl, being off TV for a year would hurt the overall exposure of the program to future recruits. I predict Meyer will use the last game of the season against that school up north as the team's bowl game. Look for our Buckeyes to be fired up like they've never been before for any game. Watch out, Wolverines...the Buckeyes will nail your weasely butts to the back walls of the Shoe next year.

BuckeyeNation's picture

Couple things.....

First, i want all of you here at the brotherhood(11W), to know I cancelled my account w/one eSECpn! And a few others that aren't so tOSU friendly! Tired of all the BS! ElevenWarriors is the only active acct membership I have left. This is truly the ONLY website that i have EVER been to that truly embraces tOSU fans! I love reading all the info you provide us and being able to discuss the "actually content" of the article w/fellow 11W bloggers w/o the annoying interference of other Non-Buckeye bloggers that just want to create havoc! Thank you!

Second, why are colleges consistently under the thumb of the NCAA? Why can't any University just drop their ass and say "you know what?... we're through w/you, Good Bye!" I know to some of you that this sounds like a really stupid question, but when it comes to the NCAA's existence i'm a little ignorant! I'm not aware of how the NCAA came about in the first place! Where they formed by other colleges or was their birth due to the government? (Ramzy if you could help me with this i sure would appreciate it).

Squirrel Master's picture

yeah, a little story on the existance of the NCAA and how they came to be would be a nice thing to read. I second it!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

BuckeyeNation's picture

Thank you VBBUCKEYE!

Squirrel Master's picture

thank you. I was actually thinking more so of elevenwarriors doing one. Perhaps a night before X-mas version of NCAA.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

JakeBuckeye's picture

I can't be the only one who still loves this guy.

Cross Village's picture

It's you, his wife, and Jim Bollman.

Thanks for answering the derp call.

Orlando Buckeye's picture

Tressel.

For good or bad he was our coach. Respect.

Squirrel Master's picture

I love the guy. He did a dumb thing. I still have good memories cuz of him. Hope he does well in the NFL.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

JakeBuckeye's picture

So you guys are telling me you all agree with Cross Village? Consider me disappointed.

LABuckeye's picture

I just think no one wants to get wrapped into whatever is going on between you. For the record, I have mixed emotions about Tressel.

JakeBuckeye's picture

Nothing's "going on." Everytime he comments on here I get called some name. For someone who touts his ass as high as the sky for being an intelligent human being he really acts like a two year old.

LABuckeye's picture

Let's all hold hands and sing "Kumbaya"

Squirrel Master's picture

I sometimes get into it, even with you jake. but I thought you were handling that one and needed no cents on my part.

fyi, I am a true believer in Tressel. Nothing would take away my memories of the 2002 championship!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Menexenus's picture

I'm with you, Jake.  In Tressel I trust.  And Cross Dressing was wrong to demean your intelligence the way he did.  (See what I did there?)

Real fans stay for Carmen.

Bucksfan's picture

For the record, Jakebuckeye, you're the one who questioned whether I was emotionally imbalanced.  When it comes to ad hominem attacks, you're not exactly Mother Theresa.

Baroclinicity's picture

Got called a homer once on my end.

When you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

JakeBuckeye's picture

Ah yes, when you told somebody to move on from Tressel and that Meyer was our guy now because he wouldn't say "fuck Tressel." Just because someone doesn't hate Tressel doesn't mean they haven't moved on. Its possible to love the guy and have moved on, ya know.

cplunk's picture

Mixed emotions decribes it to a t. He accomplished a heck of a lot at OSU and was a legendary- not great- LEGENDARY level coach. I want to think his heart was in the right place and the coverup was to protect his players because he cared for them so much, but I just don't know if I can fully believe that.

I admire Tressel for his accomplishments and am proud of the Buckeye teams he coached, but he was a flawed human being whose mistake put a big hit on our team's reputation. It didn't help that he'd been held up as a paragon of virtue prior to the whole thing either.

I think of him right now as kind of the wayward Uncle who started the family business that got us all rich and then went to jail for unpaid parking tickets. I'm grateful for all he did but I just want to ask "how could you be so stupid?"

gneptuneproductions's picture

Tressel lost many fans today, for something he had little to do with. The FTM was about the additional allegations in 2011 (Charity, fake jobs) and thus led to the bowl ban. Without the FTM there's no bowl ban. The whole situation is so fucking petty it's unbelievable. 

BuckeyeChief's picture

2002 National Champs!

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

Doc's picture

Not exactly, but it was Tressel that got us into this mess.  If he would have done the right/correct thing we wouldn't be having this conversation.  He should get the brunt of the blame, along with the guys that actually broke the rules.  Tress did lots of good, but that can be and has been wiped out with one collosal derp on his part.  It is expected that we, as Buckeye fans, are mad at him and the Tat5.  In time we will be more gracious toward him, but it will take some time.  winning cures a lot of hurt.  I'm right now glad he is gone.  We have a bright future with Urban.  Tressel had become very predictable and his offense was atrocious.  New blood was needed.  Thanks for the 10 years Tress, but no thanks for the last 1. 

"Say my name."

Cross Village's picture

It's just that you seem increbibly myopic.  

Cooper for was vilivied for losing 43 games, cursed, and forced to resign.   

Yet you choose to "trust tressel" who blew 13 games last season alone and trashed our credibility and integrity in the process.  

Where is your head? Did you name one of your kids  "jimBob tressel" and now have to go to court to redo his birth certificate?  Just don't get your sense of priorities.  

 

Winning in a true sense does not allow the kind of overt cheating that tressel was caught in.  He is a loser as are all of us.

biggy84's picture

Or you could stop having your perception shaped by Mark May and espin and realize that these violations were petty and stupid. Every bowl game gives players gifts and that is fine with the ncaa, but heaven forbid you sell the stuff while the ncaa fat cats sit back and count their billions of dollars. This wasn't widespread academic fraud by players pillaging the community.

 

/perspective'd

Cross Village's picture

I don't even know who Mark May is.  My perceptions about what is right and what is wrong were shaped at home.

It has been irrefutablely proven that tressel lied about what he knew to be facts about actions of players that would have gotten them suspended in 2010 at the time his team was ranked #1.  Not only was this dishonest but also cowardly. As was the case in the Watergate scandal, the coverup was exponetially worse than the petty crime.

One doesn't need to be a legal expert to see that that was wrong and we are now paying for the ommission.

 

biggy84's picture

Read his testimony and get back to me.

Cross Village's picture

Your point?

He lied.  In a sworn signed statement, that is perjury. 

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Like Biggy said, read the testimony. Any of you criticizing Tressel on here did not read it.

And you don't know who Mark May is? Obviously, you don't follow college football, therefore it is not even worth arguing with you.

Bucksfan's picture

On the contrary, you couldn't be more wrong.  I read it and have no problem criticizing him.

TheHostileDwarf's picture

False. It's not perjury if it's not related to a judicial proceeding or to Congress, neither of which does the NCAA fall under. Perjury is a crime. Though he lied, Tressel committed no crime.

Squirrel Master's picture

I was going to say, Tressel did not commit perjury! PSU president and AD did. Tressel just said he knew nothing about the tattoo scandal when he was somewhat aware of it due to an email from someone who he probably held little confidence in.

but if that is a horrible thing to do, someone please send an email to Saban telling him that his players are doing illegal stuff. I am sure they are so he would have to report it or would be found of lying to the NCAA and get fired!

see how easy it is.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

biggy84's picture

Tressel very clearly stated that a FBI investigation trumps the ncaa and that he would do the exact same thing again.

 

He also never knew what was going on. He simply told 2 players that he heard they were hanging around bad people and to stop it. The testimony clearly states that he was afraid they were into drugs or something life threatening and told them to stop whatever it was.

Cross Village's picture

Perjury is lying under oath. In some circumstances, it is a crime.  This case os perjury isn't criminal but he still perjured himself.

Perjury is defined as giving false evidence or testimony: making false statements: or willful falsehoods.  (Oxford American Dictionary)

tressel "failed to comport himself ... (with) honesty and integrity" and that he lied when he filled out a compliance form in September stating that he had no knowledge of NCAA violations by any of his players."

That compliance form was a requirement that was a defined part his contract with Ohio State and he failed to meet the requirements of that oath.

 

 

biggy84's picture

Read the testimony. 

TheHostileDwarf's picture

No. You're stretching words far beyond their meaning. If you're going to use a legal term such as "perjury" and mean to be taken seriously, you need to use it like it's used in that arena, not like it is in a simple dictionary.

Perjury actually means something specific: http://blackslawdictionary.org/perjury/

"The willful assertion as to a matter of fact, opinion, belief, or knowledge, made by a witness in a judicial proceeding as part of his evidence, either upon oath or in any form allowed by law to be substituted for an oath, whether such evidence is given in open court, or in an affidavit, or otherwise, such assertion being known to such witness to be false, and being intended by him to mislead the court, jury, or person holding the proceeding."

Additionally, Tressel did not lie under oath. Signing a statement to the NCAA that has an attestation clause in which one promises to tell the truth is not an oath. Taking an oath is a solemn and formal promise in a formal (typically judicial) proceeding to tell the truth. This is also why signing a police report that one knows to be false is not charged as perjury, but is charged as filing a false police report.

Lastly, the signing of this form to the NCAA was a formality. It was not a statement to a court, or to a jury, nor to a person in a pending proceeding, so it could not be "perjury."

biggy84's picture

Thank you dwarf!

Cross Village's picture

I didn't use it as a legal term.  I used it as a word in the English language whose definition I stated above.  Your semantic argument changes nothing.  His ethical & moral lapse has dragged Ohio State football to its lowest point ever.  tressel's actions fit that definition to a t.  That's why he was forced to resign; it is why we forfeited 13 games; and it is why a team of innocent seniors will play next year with no reward while tressel cashes State of Ohio retirement checks.  

Knowingly lying on the required NCAA compliance form violated his Ohio State contract's agreements, requirements, and compact.  That contract is a sworn and signed oath that he agreed to conform to NCAA rules in return for which, he was paid $3.5 million.  He failed his players, his University, and made a farce of all his proselytizing.  

 

 

TheHostileDwarf's picture

Oh please. If you don't want to use the word properly, that's your choice. Perjery IS a legal term with a (very) specific definition. The only reason you chose to use that word, since you obviously had no intention to use it properly, is to make his actions sound worse by exaggerating them. This is particularly silly because the truth is bad enough.

Tressel made some bad decisions and he's paid for them. Unfortunately, so have some others who did nothing wrong. The man's not a saint, but he's not some unethical POS either. If you read the comments below, you'll see that it's not so cut and dry what his motives were or why he didn't go to compliance. Sometimes people are confronted with bad and worse choices instead of good and bad choices. He miscalculated and he's been punished. If you want to loathe him for that, fine. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to feel the same way and buy into your demonizing. And it doesn't mean you get to make a mockery of a word you don't understand.

spqr2008's picture

It is perjury to sign a notarized document falsely, isn't it?

NC_Buckeye's picture

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. The act that a notary provides is to verify that the person who signed a document is actually who they profess to be on the document. That's why you have to bring at least two forms of visual identification.

Any document can be notarized. Doesn't make it a legally binding contract though.

So I think the answer is no.

TheHostileDwarf's picture

No. Depending on the nature of the document, it might be some type of forgery or fraud or ID theft or something depending on the specific facts (also depending on the jurisdiction), but this would not be "perjury."

Menexenus's picture

Or you could stop having your perception shaped by Mark May and espin and realize that these violations were petty and stupid. Every bowl game gives players gifts and that is fine with the ncaa, but heaven forbid you sell the stuff while the ncaa fat cats sit back and count their billions of dollars. This wasn't widespread academic fraud by players pillaging the community.
 

Well done, Biggy. 

 

Real fans stay for Carmen.

gneptuneproductions's picture

Dude. He won that championship in 2003, it's almost 2012! Move on! :P

johnblairgobucks's picture

Yeah, Tressel was a DOG.  A dog that looked nice, but had a mean streak.  It's too bad he got caught lying.  He coached the best he could, won alot, and lost some. 

Go Bucks! 

johnblairgobucks's picture

I liked Tressel, is what I was trying to say.  It was time for him not to be our football coach. 

ThirdLegLouie's picture

If you had a party for JT, you'd be hearing crickets. I think during his tenure, he really tried to build up the character in kids, but his ignorance in handling the entire situation with the tats is inexcusable. How do you think you can get away with this in the electronic age, where everything is recorded? This picture makes me a little sick to be honest, knowing how JT was a fake.

If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target

 
NC_Buckeye's picture

If you think you're in the majority in thinking JT was a fake, I'm here to tell you you're wrong.

You're entitled to your opinion. It just happens to be faulty.

btalbert25's picture

I don't think Tressel was phony, but I don't think he was too concerned about the rules either.  Why?  His old boss was very critical with the manner in which Tressel handled potential NCAA infractions.  No doubt he was a great man.  He was a great leader, he taught the kids how to act when no one was waching, and he never quit on guys like Mo Clarrett.  

I think you can both love Tressel for all the great things he did while here, but also recognize that he, that when it pertained to NCAA stuff he probably wasn't much different that most other coaches out there. 

johnblairgobucks's picture

Tressel was our football coach.... football coach.  He was good enough at his job to rise to the top, flawed enough to leave with a frown.  I am glad he was coach at Ohio State.

ysuosu1's picture

Of course you're not! I had interactions with JT many times at YSU and have spent many seasons watching him at YSU/OSU. I think these coaches live in a gray area. I think they all do. I believe he got a little caught up when he withheld info. We still can't be sure he wasn't protecting those players with the Fed investigation. I'm being a true homer but we really don't know.  So much gray area. In my heart I will always believe College football is better with him in it as I'm sure he has learned valuable lessons. We'll probably never know.

LP

Buckeye_Mafia's picture

The whole argument about us imposing our own bowl ban this season being sufficient is silly to me. Everything we self-imposed, the NCAA added to it. So how can one not think they would have added an additional bowl game ban to a self imposed one? Its over and done with. We can all accept that it is done and over with. We aren't understand the microscope anymore and the NCAA can now pick on another institution finally.

Adolphus Washington is half grizzly bear and half dragon | Noah Spence kills quarterbacks, just to watch them die.

toledobuckeyefanjim's picture

However you think of the NCAA's punishment, here's a real man-child whining that Southern Cal didn't deserve its penalties from the NCAA. He thinks OSU should have been slammed back into the days of leather helmets. Of course, he's prejudiced. What our stupid players and Tressel did does not come close to the party atmosphere in Los Angeles that permeated the USC football program.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/16531621/extrojan-holmes-blasts-unfairness-doublestandards-in-ncaa-sanction-process

biggy84's picture

In Tressel i trust! 

Nick's picture

Gene Smith should be fired tonight.

Cross Village's picture

Where can I sign the petition?

johnblairgobucks's picture

Time for some basketball.  Go Bucks!

costinjr's picture

How about a bowl game in 2013 between Ohio State vs either Miami or Penn State (both likely to face post-season bans) with travel payed for by the community (would be easy to do as Buckeye, Nittany Lion, and Hurricane communities are big and love their program). Both programs would donate all profits toward breast cancer research. Call the bowl the Stephanie Spielman Bowl, to honor her memory, and fight against cancer. How could the NCAA say no? It would give those players who have done nothing wrong, and are suffering penelties of former players and/or coaches a chance to play in the post-season, and do something charitable that would benefit society. Also if this actually were to happen, it would prove that a community could do the NCAA's job, and prove that the organization is an unneccessary middle man.

Menexenus's picture

I think this is a fabulous idea.  You just can't call it a "bowl" game (because we've been banned from those).  Call it the "Stephanie Spielman Memorial Exhibition Game to Fight Cancer" and you're golden.

Real fans stay for Carmen.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

How far do you think the NCAA's jurisdiction reaches?

How bout a USO sponsored game on an aircraft carrier or at an overseas base on Christmas Day. Tress was all about supporting the troops. Miami and Ohio State could go as "club" teams, and so long as they don't have contact with their coaches and they make arrangements to get there (they are allowed to be compensated for travel and lodging for charity events for a certain amount of money), I think they would be fine. The USO would have to provide uniforms, equipment, and referees. But, as long as they play as a "club" team, and they don't have contact with coaches, there honestly would be nothing that would constitute an NCAA violation. You could have some of the officers be volunteer coaches for the event. Or you could find legendary coaches that are no longer employed by an NCAA institution to lead their teams (like, say, Jim Tressel and Randy Shannon). It would be the ultimate efff you to the NCAA, and it would technically be no different than playing a pickup game.

spqr2008's picture

Excellent Idea.  The only problem I see is that the NCAA could come up with some B.S. reg that would punish the players for playing in a non-NCAA event, because it would take money away from the NCAA.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

As long as they don't wear any equipment provided by the institution, as long as they don't have any contact with the coaches, and as long as the institution does not pay for anything or profit from anything, then it's no different than a bunch of guys playing a well organized backyard football game.

I sat through compliance meetings with Doug Archie when I walked on the track team. In fact, because of scheduling conflicts, I actually sat in his office and got to go over things one on one with him. We went over just about every rule in the NCAA rule book. I know these rules well, and I know there are loopholes like this that allow track athletes to compete in events outside of the NCAA (i.e. the Olympic Trials or USATF championships), as well as basketball and baeball players to play in summer leagues.

spqr2008's picture

Let's say they did this for the Stephanie Spielman Breast Cancer charity.  Would there be a problem b/c Chris Spielman is a former player and therefore could be considered a booster?

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Spielman might be too close to the program.

But, I just checked the NCAA rule book to look for the rules governing the situations I listed above. Here's the rule, directly from the NCAA.

"You are not eligible in your sport for the remainder of the year and the next academic year if, during the academic year, you competed as a member of any outside team in any noncollegiate, amateur competition. You may compete outside of your declared playing and practice season as a member of an outside team in any noncollegiate, amateur competition during any official vacation period published in your institution's catalog."

I know OSU is on quarters. Do they consider winter break an official vacation period? I would think they do. And if so, the NCAA would have nothing on them if they wanted to do this (so long as the member institution does not facilitate any of it).

spqr2008's picture

OSU is moving to semesters, but it wouldn't effect them unless the Winter break is not an offical vacation period b/c it is during the academic year which the athlete's scholarship is good for.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Doesn't matter when their scholarship is good for. All official vacation periods are the same.

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/compliance/pdf/newsletter-2011-oct.pdf

last page...

Student-Athlete Playing with Club Team During Vacation Period
Pursuant to NCAA Bylaw 17.8.8.1.1, a student-athlete shall become ineligible for competition if she participates during the academic year as a member of any outside team in any noncollegiate, amateur competition. However, a student-athlete may compete outside of the institution’s declared playing and practice season as a member of an outside team in any noncollegiate, amateur competition during any official vacation period published in the institution’s catalog [NCAA Bylaw 17.8.8.1.1.1].
Here, Ohio State has an official vacation period on November 24th and 25th for Thanksgiving and Columbus Day (observed). Therefore, if the student-athlete wants to participate on an outside team on Nov. 24th or 25th it would be permissible as it is during the official vacation period on Ohio State’s academic calendar and outside of the declared playing and practice season. However, Saturday, November 26th and Sunday, November 27th are not official vacation periods listed on Ohio State’s academic calendar. Therefore, it would not be permissible for a student-athlete to participate on the outside team on the Saturday or Sunday of Thanksgiving Break. If the student-athlete is going to participate in the tournament on November 24th or 25th, please have them complete the outside competition request form.

If winter break - or specifically Christmas Ever/Day - are official vacation periods (I would assume they are if Columbus Day and Thanksgiving/Day after Thanksgiving are) then they could honestly do this.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Okay, so after digging up some old compliance newsletters, here's what I've found:

- An athlete IS allowed to play with an amateur or club team on days considered official university vacations AFTER Nov. 1st.

- Christmas Day is an official university vacation day.

- The athlete cannot wear the university logo during competition.

- Coaches and staff cannot coach the team nor have contact with the student athlete during the competition.

Maestro's picture

National Letter of Intent Day cannot, I repeat, cannot get here soon enough.

vacuuming sucks

BuckeyeChris's picture

Someone also pointed out that the "good news" is that from 11-25-12 through January of 2013,  Urbz will have nothing do to with his time but woo recruits with no bowl ban ahead of him. THAT should frighten the masses. 

This, too, shall pass. 

From no bowl, to pre-season #1 in 2013?!? Why not?

 

Bucksfan's picture

That game will be in Pasadena at the Rose Bowl, and if the Buckeyes make it you can bet your @ss I will be there front and center.

Tonga Buckeye's picture

NCAA bite me.

"go not where the path may lead, rather go where there is no path and leave a trail"

baddogmaine's picture

I'm coming in after a lot of comments have already been left so I may be saying what has already been said many times. Not only did OSU suffer from a failure to monitor, but that Gene Smith is surprised by what has happened proves that he and therefore OSU have no institutional control. There has been a lot of piling on by haters but some facts are absolutely correct: we were already on probation; we experienced not just a number of players that apparently had not been properly trained in what they could and could not do with their memorabilia; we experienced not just a head coach who knew and covered up; we had not only a university president who joked that said coach had the power to fire him; we experienced not just new problems with players apparently not knowing that they could not get paid if they did not work; but even in the face of all this everytime we tried to prove that we were taking it all seriously by self-punishing we proved only that we, in fact, were not taking it seriously - by suspending Tressel 2 games, then five, then docking five scholarships across three years; returning money we had no right to since we had played players the head coach knew were ineligible. Every penalty we imposed on ourselves was ludicrously insufficient. Hard to say whether a bowl ban this year would have saved us next year because we never tried it, but it was a high risk that if we did not ban this year we would get it next; and in that situation you give up what you can afford to lose that might be enough to avoid what you really don't want to lose. Compare, contrast, gnash teeth - this was a university that can point to worse places but had done plenty to bring down the wrath of the sports police. And if Gene Smith really did not understand this he should be fired today, because he clearly is clueless about how to run a sports department that was and will be monitored as closely as any in the country.

To all those 11W readers who opposed a bowl ban this year - I hope you're happy now. It was obvious that we were in fact at great risk of getting exactly that, and now instead of sitting out for a 6-6 team with a lame duck coach we are going to sit out with a team that might well be among the country's elite; and might yet lose commitments from players who want the national exposure right away. And we might well watch scUM win the second B1G game while we are powerless to stop it. 11W readers didn't make this happen, none of us has this power. But a failure to see what is before us is a sure way to not like where we end up going.

biggy84's picture

Very dramatic Baddog! Espin would be proud!

baddogmaine's picture

I'm not writing for ESPN, I'm writing as a lifetime Buckeye fan who is absolutely SICK at what our scholl's admionistration has done. Of course Tressel's readiness to win at all cost may well have been his decision alone; the failure to monitor players is not unique to Ohio State. But the arrogance - the overriding belief, expressed by ESPN, that because we are THE Ohio State University we are immune from serious penalty almost certainly contributed mightily to the penalty handed down. "I hope he doesn't fire me" - you don't think the NCAA had that in its record. Then suspending JT for 2 games, generously upped to 5 when probably even Smith's dog barked that that was ludicrous. Giving up 5 scholarships over three years - that was expected to appease an enforcement organization dealing with a school already on probation? There are different ways of denying culpability. One is to state it explcitly. One is to say nothing, to stonewall. Accepting that something had been wrong and disclosing can be cooperation, but when the school holds out its wrist and lightly taps it the message is that the school is refusing to accept the magnitude of the problem.

Hindsight is 20-20. I'll take credit for seeing what was before me at the time and arguing that we should give up a bowl game this year. No, I did not know and do not know now that that would have been enough, but a bowl ban would have been a gesture more fitting the crime, and in the situation would have been a penalty easier to digest than what we got. I mean really, what is the Gator Bowl good for? a 6-6 team facing a 6-6 team, the entire country feeling that OSU is still getting improper benefits by having one coaching staff free to recruit while staffs elsewhere have to game plan (and the entire country is right, this is an unfair advantage). If a team is going to sit it should be the team that includes the selfish players who knowingly - yes, knowingly - broke rules that probably contributed to some of the losses and the need for a bowl ban. Let Posey, Adams and the others explain to the seniors why the seniors don't get to go bowling.

Arrogance. You don't have to work for ESPN or SI or scUM to be disgusted with the way your school has behaved. The scary thing is that as long as people say that comments like mine are just the words of haters the arrogance will continue, increasing the likelihood that there will be a next time. If there is the penalties will look a lot more like SMU than a lighter version of USC. ESPN might revel in that - I WANT STEPS TAKEN SO I NEVER EVER AGAIN HAVE TO FACE A YEAR OR PERIOD OF YEARS IN WHICH MY BELOVED BUCKEYES ARE UNABLE TO COMPETE FOR A NATIONAL TITLE!!!!!!!

blazers34's picture

Dont think its impossible to love Tressell bust still be beyond fucking pissed about what went down, and the (major) part that he played in it.  Time to move on.  Fuck the NCAA, but really, fuck Gene Smith and to hell with everyone who had a part in this

BuckeyeChris's picture

http://hawaiiathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=football&schedule=3924

Am I seeing this right? Does Hawaii just "wing" their football schedule? It looks like they only have 4 games scheduled next year!?! 

Hey Mr. Smith, wanna save your job? Set up a 12-8-12, game AT Hawaii. 

rdubs's picture

You forgot about their conference games.  With all of the realignment their conference probably hasn't released a schedule yet.  However I hope they do schedule a game at the end of the season.

NC_Buckeye's picture

It was commented on over at OTE that the NCAA closed the Hawaii loophole after Bama used it while on a bowl-ban probation. I think this is true; I vaguely remember that.

Gobucks542's picture

NCAA just released a statement to all Buckeye fans...According to NCAA bylaw SEC#1-881.09 which states receiving money is permissible as long as its through a parent or immediate family member. However selling your OWN property is not. And according to bylaw SEC#1-852.02 receiving free hotel rooms as S. Carolina players did is also permissible but receiving discounted tatoos are not.  And finally bylaw SEC#1-760.01 states any school in the SEC is not subject to any NCAA sanctions

GOBUCKS542

biggy84's picture

Nice!  +1000000

FrankMurphy's picture

As a Michigan fan, I think the penalties are more or less appropriate. I would have liked to see a 2-year postseason ban to account for the fact that Tressel knowingly played ineligible players in the Sugar Bowl last year coupled with OSU's failure to self-impose a bowl ban this year. However, I don't think the penalties should have been as harsh as what USC got. USC didn't cooperate with the investigation, never took compliance seriously, and hired Kiffin to succeed Pete Carroll despite the fact that Kiffin served on Carroll's staff for the entire period during which the violations occurred. OSU at least pretended to take the matter seriously, despite its laughably pathetic initial response. Given that OSU suffered through a throwaway season as a direct result of the scandal, this seems fair. You guys are actually lucky that it wasn't worse.

Having said all that, the NCAA is still a hypocritical farce, and I agree with you guys that there's an obvious double-standard between the media's focus on the OSU scandal and the rampant cheating in the SEC that goes largely unreported. I think it's because of a cultural difference between the media in the Midwest and the media in the South. The former doesn't let fandom get in the way of a scoop. The latter acts like its purpose is to safeguard the program and its image. Yet another one of the SEC's artificial advantages over us (i.e., the B1G). 

rdubs's picture

The NCAA allowed those players to play not Tressel.  That was not his call to make.  He could have suspended them, but they had already received their punishment from the NCAA so they wouldn't have cared about the Sugar Bowl one way or another and would have no bearing on the sanctions listed today.

Squirrel Master's picture

not to mention a large part of this has nothing to do with what happened in 2010. pretty much the reason for the further sanctions is due to the over paying of Posey, Herron and another player and to players receiving gift bags at a golf tournament they didn't pay to play in.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

FrankMurphy's picture

Yes, but that was because Tressel lied and told the NCAA he had no prior knowledge of the violations. There is no way the NCAA would have allowed the suspended players to play in the Suger Bowl if it knew that Tressel had learned of the violations months earlier and did nothing about them. 

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

False.

Once again, another guy who didn't read Tressel's testimony in front of the Committee on Infractions. After the NCAA started probing OSU after the DOJ letter in December, Tressel did indeed admit that he had received a tip.

And as for why the players were allowed to play in the bowl game.... well, the NCAA had more to do with that. And if you read the transcript, you'll understand why.

Do any other Tressel haters just want to start making shit up? Frankly, I'm tired of it.

Maestro's picture

We have no idea about what you are claiming FM.  The NCAA determined that the players should have been ineligible and chose to punish them in 2011 while allowing them to still play in the Sugar Bowl.  Tressel's knowledge and the timing of that had no bearing on the NCAA's decision on the punishment of those players.

vacuuming sucks

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

From the Tressel's COI testimony (pages 121-122):

Chuck Smart: "The – there was a – what I’m going for, there was a time when Julie asked you on December 16th, a couple a questions. Do you remember her asking you questions like, “Did you know anything about any of this?”

Tressel: "...Julie said to me something about that when there was the three or four us in there. And I said, “You know what? Yeah, I do remember.” I said, “There was a kid that’s an attorney and he was a walk-on player for us. And he gave me a tip."

Pryor, Posey, et al were reinstated December 23rd, a full weak after Ohio State and the NCAA new about Tressel's admission of a tip from Cicero.

You people need to read the goddam transcript. (not you Maestro... the other guys)

rdubs's picture

Allowing the players to play had nothing to do with Tressel knowing or not.  No one has any way of knowing what they would have done had the Cicero emails become public before the bowl game, but it seems unlikely that the sanctions would have changed for the players because they didn't change once the emails came to light.  The decision to let them play was related to the fact that the players were not aware there was a violation and learned of the issue based on later rules education.

Inadequate rules education is often cited in student-athlete reinstatement and other waiver cases (such as inaccurate or misguided academic advising).

The NCAA has a withholding policy that allows for "suspending a reinstatement condition" in situations involving championships or bowl games.

Some of this last information was taken from the below link.  We can argue hypotheticals if you want, but it is fairly useless and I see no reason why the PLAYERS' penalties would change based on factors related to the COACH.  Maybe Tressel would have been suspended, but that is again not related to the players' status.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/21560/ncaa-sugar-bowl-defend-os...

Maestro's picture

Exactly, Tress might have been suspended had they known the full extent of the situation, but who knows. 

vacuuming sucks

Bucksfan's picture

And as a Michigan fan, you can go jump down a well and sh*t yourself.  Your opinion on the matter is worth about as much.

FrankMurphy's picture

Now there's some Buckeye class! Bravo, sir!

cplunk's picture

C'mon now, he came on here and posted a reasoned opinion. Disagree with it if you want, but show some class.

Menexenus's picture

While I don't agree with Bucksfan's demeaning use of profanity towards our misguided guest, I do think that it is incumbent on Michigan fans who come here to use some judgment about when to post and when to lay low.  Clearly, yesterday everyone's emotions were running high.  At a time like that, if a Michigan fan chooses to throw their 2 cents out, they do so at their own risk.  (Notice that we haven't heard much from M Man over the past 33 hours...)

Real fans stay for Carmen.

BuckeyeChief's picture

Yeah, that was all NCAA allowing them to play.

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

It feels to me like the NCAA gave in to the pressure.  They knew there would be bitching from many outlets if there was no bowl ban.  The NCAA has never, to my knowledge, given a bowl ban for less than what we've done to get this ban.  Ridiculous.  They gave in to those dickheads at eSHITpn, ShitByBrooks and company.

It's a shame they have to punish a team full of players who didn't take part in this.  Mostly everyone involved in these violations are gone after the season ends.  The ban should've taken place this year.  I think with more proper handling, such as a self-imposed bowl ban, and EARLY (I'm talking before the season even started early), the NCAA wouldn't have hit us with a bowl ban next season.  

Gene Smith needs to be fired.  Some people call for Gee's head - but Gee oversees the entire university, not just athletics.  Athletics clearly is not his area of expertise, judging by things he has said.  If he fires Smith, he's off the hot seat as far as I'm concerned. 

 

 

Class of 2010.

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

I just hope we go undefeated in '12 and are the only ones to do so.  Then we can laugh at the paper champions of the Big Ten and BCS. 

Class of 2010.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Anyone else read the joke of a COI report re: Tressel?

from the COI report: “However, the former head coach acknowledges now that he should not have allowed those concerns to override his duty to report possible NCAA violations.”

I read Tressel’s testimony. I recall no such admission by Tressel. He said explicitly that in hindsight he would have “gone to the University legal department, because it’s a federal issue. But [he] would not have gone to compliance.”

More BS: “He offered no excuses for his decision and understands the very serious nature of this case.”.... directly contradicted by the following statement just a few sentences earlier in the same damn paragraph: “He prioritized those concerns as: i) his focus on the safety of the studentathletes; ii) the gravity of the federal criminal investigation, and; iii) the purported request for confidentiality made by the individual who provided the information.”

And even more BS....

“Indeed the local attorney said that he warned the former head coach that the tattoo parlor owner was a drug dealer and that student-athletes should avoid him, “frankly, for their own safety.”"

And they have the balls to say this: “The committee believes that had he truly been concerned with the student-athletes’ wellbeing, he would have immediately contacted the institution’s compliance office and perhaps the institution’s office of general counsel.”…. right… because NCAA compliance is the best case to go when you’re afraid for your players’ safety… “perhaps” the office of general counsel? “Perhaps”? If I was scared for my players’ safety, I would certainly go to general counsel (as Tressel admitted he should have done) before ever going to compliance.
 

Fuck the NCAA, seriously.
 

biggy84's picture

Awesome Humble! I couldn't agree more!

Maestro's picture

The folks who did this investigation clearly have no idea what it's like to run a major football program.  They are pencil pushers without an empathetic bone in their collective bodies IMHO.  5 years is ridiculous. 

Clem Haskins got 7 years for paying a tutor thousands of dollars to do over 400 papers/homework assignments for his players.  He lied to the NCAA about it, he had his players lie to the NCAA about it.

Todd Bozeman got 8 years for directly paying a student athlete over $30,000 and lying to the NCAA.

How is that proportional for what Tress did?

Tress was put in a terrible situation and he handled it by talking to his players personally and trying his darndest to get them to become mature young men.  Yes, he violated an NCAA rule and the cover up was worse than the crimes, but this particular situation was not nearly as black and white as the NCAA investigators would like for us to believe.

vacuuming sucks

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Couldn't agree with you more Maestro.

Tressel screwed up. He admitted as much. But he didn't screw up by not going to compliance. He screwed up by not going to the University's general counsel. I don't fault him for not going to compliance, and it is arrogant as hell for the NCAA to actually state that if Tressel "really cared about the student athletes' safety, he would have gone to compliance". WTF? Does amateurism save lives or something?

Maestro's picture

No crap. 

Have a closed door discussion with a player about real life > have a closed door discussion with a player about NCAA rules.

Tressel clearly decided that real life was more important and I totally agree.  The NCAA can suck it.  I love your line there about amatuerism saving lives.  Hilarious and spot on.

vacuuming sucks

Buckeyeholicwompa's picture

Well now that the verdict is clear, Gene Smith has officially shot his wad for good.

Abe Froman's picture

Hasta La Vista Smitty.
 

Abe is okay with most of the sanctions, but the simple hypocritical method that the NCAA dishes out the punishment just fries my bacon.  Seriously, we should have sat all the players for the big game last year.  The NCAA can provide a student athlete with it's eligibility, but the coach and university choose when they play.  For the NCAA to come out and levy a bowl game suspension next year (Oh yeah, you aren't in a real good one this year, so let's do it next year), which penalizes only athletes that are not involved is asinine. 

 

Secondly, the extra pay the five players got over the summer amounted to about $200 per player.  Divide that by 2 months or 40 work days and you'll find that the $5 extra per day amounts to something much less than aggregious.  Abe isn't saying it is right, but the NCAA needs to punish the players committing the infraction.  Especially when they have already said, "Yeah, play in the bowl game."

 

Basking in the wake of mediocrity.....

btalbert25's picture

Wasn't there a year in the 90's where Auburn was on a bowl ban and basically crushed everyone on their schedule?  I know in basketball too, UK, in 1991 set a goal to be the best team in the conference, they couldn't play in the NCAA tournament, but they wound up rallying together and winning the SEC.  Sure, Ohio State can't actually win the conference but they can kick everyone's ass and win every game.  I was thinking earlier it'd be great to win the AP championship.  This year the team was down and out, kind of a mess.  The adversity this year wasn't good for the team.  The adversity next year, the bowl ban, will have Meyer and this team playing pissed.  There will be a lot of victims next season and I believe it's going to get ugly for a lot of the teams on the schedule. 

schnaible5's picture

If I'm Gene Smith I would work my butt off to schedule a December game somewhere warm and just have it as part of the regular season. Miami or UNC, anyone?

btalbert25's picture

We need to stop blaming the NCAA, SEC, or ESPN.  Bottom line, and you can believe the man was being a saint if you want, is Tressel fucked up folks.  Had all the tattoo stuff been reported early on, the beginning of 2010 season may have had Pryor and company sitting out a few games, but that's all it would've been.  There would'nt have been a shit storm of controversy, there wouldn't have been investigations and all this other mess.  The Digaranimo stuff never comes out, and the FTM charge never happens.  

This was a mess from top on down.  The compliance folks didn't know what they players were up to, Smith enabled Tressel to play dumb all the time by not being harder on him like Geiger was, Tressel played the aww jeazil petes guys I didn't know what was going on card, and the players did whatever the hell they wanted.  I think 9 schollies and a 1 year bowl ban is getting off pretty easy. 

Look at what Robinson said in his tweets today.  One said there is a witness that if they spoke, and they aren't going to, would basically make things horrible for Ohio State.  So, there was a lot more that tattoos and guys getting paid for not doing enough work.  He also said Pryor and Rife could've shared more with the NCAA that would've really crippled Ohio State.  

People will scream what about Auburn and Cam Newton, well what about him.  They couldn't get information to prove anything.  No one that woujld go on record or provide details like Shapiro did for Miami.  What Robinson talked about was very telling to me.  Things could be much much much worse, and we can thank God this other witness won't open their mouth.  

Ohio State is not some poor victim here.  There was proof of wrong doing, a coach who lied and covered up, then while all that was going on more examples of idiots taking improper benefits for going to charity events and jobs they may or may not have done.  That's a lot of shit that could be proven, and there was a whole lot more that people dind't talk about and didn't provide details about.  Robinson's comments have me convinced today is a day to be relieved, not pissed off. 

biggy84's picture

Tell people how to feel often? You can continue to buy into what the media tells you, but i won't. 

btalbert25's picture

People can think or feel whatever they want, I'm just tired of hearing the Poor us card.  Get your program under control and you don't have to worry about how fair or unfair the NCAA is. Instead of pointing somewhere else and whining about other institutions we have to look at back and say WTF is this program doing?  Blame the players who fucked up, Gene Smith, Jim Tressel, and boosters. 

I absolutely am not naive enough to believe the stuff the NCAA nailed the program over were isolated incidents.  The program had a lot of problems.  I for one am glad this other Witness isnt talking.  Robinson isn't often wrong about this kind of stuff, in fact he's probably the best in the buisness and breaking these stories.  We can question what kind of people his sources are, but his information is always good.  He doesn't run with stuff unless he knows it is.  If he says there's another witness out there that won't talk, there's a nother witness out there with a lot of damning information.  

biggy84's picture

All he is doing is rehashing what his buddy Dorhmann has said in response to his hatchet job being disproven. It is very easy to claim an unnamed source without any proof whatsoever.  Do you have firsthand knowledge that the program had a lot of problems?As i have said before, we had every media type and the ncaa here and they found zero evidence to back those claims. It is not like they weren't trying. 

 

People can feel free to indict a program instead of look at the system and it's archaic rules. I see a program that didn't do anything unlawful or immoral, that was blown way out of proportion by the sensationalized tabloid media.

btalbert25's picture

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.  I'm just saying look at Robinson's track record, it's pretty good.  Much like we trust pretty much anything the 11W folks run with, I'd say Robinson has earned the reputation that if he says it, it's probably true.  He's not going to run with information from another person without researching it himself.  Look at the incredible research and man hours he put into the Miami story.  I don't believe for a minute that he is just rehashing info from Dorhman, I believe he was probably doing research and found the same witness. 

It doesn't matter if all the media types in the world are in Columbus scrutinizing Ohio State, if the people with the information aren't willing to share that info and give proof to the guys.  The Dorhman piece was mostly junk, but no doubt he didn't come to Columbus on a whim.  He had information, just not likely people were willing to give him the supporting evidence like Shapiro gave Robinson.  

I'm not saying the rules aren't archaic or that the system isn't outdated.  I'm saying that the rules that are in place I believe the guys knew they were breaking and did so often.  I honestly believe what the NCAA ruled on was just the tip of the iceberg.  We got our punishment, now time to put this mess behind us.  Hopefully, Meyer is as vigilant about the NCAA stuff as he says he is, so we won't be going through this crap again in the next few years. 

 

 

 

 

biggy84's picture

March 8 was the reason Dohrmann came here. Robinson did not investigate tOSU, he is merely relaying someone else's story. As you saw with the Feldman outrage, these tabloid guys stick together. Furthermore, Robinson is a tsun guy who most certainly is not a fan of tOSU.

NC_Buckeye's picture

^^^^This. Right around the time the wheels started falling off the Dohrmann piece, Robinson came to his defense saying there was more to the Ohio State story that couldn't be corroborated.

He wouldn't say anything specific just felt the need to stick up for his buddy. In fact, I think he tweeted then as well.

I have a major problem with these "journalists" tweeting opinions that obviously haven't been held to any journalistic standards but are treated by the public as if they had.

johnblairgobucks's picture

Amazing, if you would have told me 2 years ago, that very soon we would be close to a 2 game Bowl winning streak verses SEC, but that at the same time I wouldn't be able to celebrate the accomplishment, I wouldn't have believed you.  It has been an amazing 12 month journey in Ohio State football history.

dbit's picture

Has there ever been a team that has gone from no bowl game to National Champions the next?

 

 

johnblairgobucks's picture

excellent site for info is CollegeFootballDataWarehouse:

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia_team_index.php

Miami Fla went 9-3, a year after Bowl Ban, in 1998, NC in 2001 but that's as close as it gets

SouthPlainfieldNut's picture

I've let this marinate all day. After digesting the multitude of stories written by the country's finest writers indeed, I've come to the following conclusion on the matter:

"Blah blah old people pretending to be very angry and ermmmm hmmm PUNISHMENT SANCTIONS PENALTIES MHMMD KNND IMPLICATIONS NATIONAL PERCEPTION bfsjhbsjd"

So yeah, that's about what you'll find if you check out any of the media leaders. Cool.

My biggest concern was this year's recruiting class flip flopping. The early indication (knock on wood) is that it doesn't seem that will be the case. Bowl games can be fun, and not playing in one next year will be lame, but we're all quite aware that all but one of them are pretty much meaningless. We can survive a year without one. And next year's recruiting efforts won't even be affected by this.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

I honestly think the NCAA made a mockery of what were legitimate concerns on the part of Tressel. I know a lot of you probably did not grow up in a rough neighborhood. When it comes to the drug trade, witnesses are routinely intimidated and many times killed. Imagine if Pryor's and Posey's names were leaked. Imagine now that the man who Eddie Rife was testifying against wants to intimidate Rife into not cooperating with the US Attorney. He can't get to Rife because Rife is sitting in jail (easier to get to someone in prison, much tougher to get to them in jail). So he puts a hit out on Pryor and Posey, since he knows they're buds with Rife, and who knows, they may know something, but in the end it sends a clear message that once Rife gets to the prison grounds, he's next.

I know many of you would find this hard to fathom, but this stuff actually does happen in the real world. It doesn't just happen on TV. Just a few years ago in my hometown of Cincinnati, local street vendors were selling shirts that said "I was a snitch", which prominently featured a picture of the feet of a dead body in the morgue with a "toe tag" on it. Hell, the rapper T.I. was run out of town by some Cincinnati gangsters, but not before they whacked two of his posse on westbound I-74.

Tressel should have gone to the University's general counsel. But I don't fault him for not going to compliance. You must understand too that Tressel spent 15 years in Youngstown, where the only way to stay 100% safe was to shut the hell up and not say a word.

biggy84's picture

Well said Humble!

NC_Buckeye's picture

People who aren't from Ohio are always kind of incredulous when I tell them how rough a place Youngstown is. I've run into several young black guys here in Raleigh who have told me the same thing... that if they didn't get out of Youngstown they were going to end up dead. No shit.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Kind of like Aubrey J. McCreary, a classmate of mine at La Salle High School. Yes, the same high school as DeVier and Julian Posey. Aubrey was riddled with bullets during a drug transaction. Not sure if they ever caught the guy.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/cincinnati/obituary.aspx?n=aubrey-j-mcc...

I'm sure Tressel was well aware of this, because this was during the 2005 football season and he was at La Salle several times recruiting Ben Martin (and talking to Julian Posey about a walk-on spot) and the entire school was in mourning.

The danger that exists in the world is real. Some of you just choose not to see it. Having had a player murdered, having had players incarcerated, and others that just sank into drug culture, Tressel was well aware of this.

F O U R's picture

Tressel's cover up had nothing to do with protecting these kids.  It had everything to do with protecting his chance to win another title.

 

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Oh really? Can you prove that? Can you prove exactly what Tressel was thinking?

Is it so fucking hard for you people to realize that danger actually exists in the world? It's not just on the fucking television. This shit happens in real life. If the absolutely absurd and unlikely scenario happened whereby Pryor and Posey were murdered because their names were leaked by the NCAA, ESPiN, the compliance office, or what have you all because Tressel immediately turned them in, do you think Tressel would ever forgive himself? Do you think the media would? They'd be singing a different tune! They'd say "Well, Tressel cares more about his precious football program than his players' lives".

Look closely at this picture...

That man died under Tressel's watch shortly after finishing a stand-out career at Youngstown State. He was murdered. Gun-downed in a drive by shooting.

 

 

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Pardon my language. It's just obvious to me that you've never known someone that has been murdered. I have. More than one person, actually. And both scenarios had that one word in common, that one word included in the Tressel emails: DRUGS.

BuckeyeGrl5's picture

Youngstown is my hometown.  I know all too well the dangers of that city.  And it keeps getting worse and worse.  Tressel being immersed in that for years is why he feared for his players safety.

"I love football.  I think its the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose" - Woody Hayes

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

It's no use Buckeyegirl. Many of these heartland folk and suburbanites can't fathom that stuff like district attorneys getting whacked actually happens in Ohio.

BuckeyeChief's picture

I think that whole aspect is what is lost nationally; he lost a player at YSU under similar circumstances.

It's not all peaches and sunshine. It's seems a lot of people are overlooking a federal drug investigation, with a hack of a lawyer who was once screwing the judge presiding over the case while it was going on who is now disbarred because of this case.

This shit wasn't cut and dry; he should've went to legal and screwed up. How many of you guys, under similar situations, would do the right thing?

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

Maestro's picture

Yes, and defining the "right thing" is far from cut and dry.  Is disrupting a federal investigation the "right thing"?

He definitely talked to Posey and Pryor about what he was relayed by Cicero.  How in depth those conversations went only the 3 of them know.  I would venture a guess that they were more in depth than he let on to the NCAA.  In Tressel's mind real life trumped NCAA by-laws and I completely agree.  Tress was thrown into a very sticky situation when Cicero emailed him.  He calls the letter from the DOJ that notified the school that none of the players were involved in anything criminal "The Hallelujah Letter".  There is a ton of gray in this situation.  It's not nearly as black and white as many people like to make it.

vacuuming sucks

NC_Buckeye's picture

I agree with your assessment completely Maestro which is why I won't condemn Tressel for these sanctions.

Was there a better way to deal with what happened? Absolutely, but as the shit is going down who among us would have the wherewithal to figure that out.

If I were a rich booster, I'd front Tressel the money to mount a suit against the NCAA. The one thing I was hoping for from the NCAA was that they'd issue a framework for the type of situation that Tressel found himself in. IOW, here's what an administrator/coach/player can do in cases of player safety and/or possible obstruction of justice charges in order to maintain NCAA compliance.

The NCAA didn't address that because they never accepted Tressel's premise... which is bullshit. Tressel said in testimony that in hindsight he would have gone to the university's legal dept. At the very least the NCAA could have addressed whether that proposed solution would have been sufficient to maintain compliance.

The Show Cause penalty needs to be challenged on that basis alone. Nothing was learned from this about how to avoid violations in the future given the situation. Total bullshit.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Here's one of many stories about a college football player getting murdered, because he was hanging around the wrong people.

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-1-arrested-1-on-the-loose-in-shooting-death-of-college-football-player-20110916,0,2792145.story

"Detectives believe Johnson was specifically targeted by people he knew, and was robbed of personal property before he was shot."

 

ysuosu1's picture

I grew up in suburbs of Y town and wasn't very exposed to this. Then I went to YSU and met so many types of interesting people. Spending my College days there and loving football, you get to know these guys. Those who know how Tressel handled this, so amazing and it's heart wrenching. These kinds of things were so sad for us. Tressel was in the trenches with these kids and take it from someone who watched the aftermath of more than one football shooting incident at YSU, it's extremely scary!

LP

Silver Shotgun's picture

I'm with the anti-Tress crowd.  Intentionaly cheating and engaging in cover-ups are not the hallmarks of someone morally upright enough to write a book preaching to others about the right way to win.  He won a bunch of games for us, and I don't hate the man or think his infractions nullify his contributions, but people should be exactly as angry with and disappointed in Jim Tressel as they are with the athletes who committed the infractions.  Many people are clearly reserving their ire for kids while continuing to rever an adult who knew better.  Also, I'd have traded Tress for Meyer at any point during the last five years, so good riddance.

BuckeyeGrl5's picture

I wouldnt use the term "cheating".  Tattoos arent perfomance enhancing

"I love football.  I think its the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose" - Woody Hayes

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

You mean, tattoos don't give you super strength and the ability to run a 4.3? I'm shocked!

biggy84's picture

Read the transcripts.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Biggy,

I hope none of these people ever serve on a jury. Even our own court of law is rational enough whereby the defendant is given the option of an affirmative defense (I did it, but here's why). Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't. And that tells you all you need to know about the NCAA.

Bucksfan's picture

Biggy and Humble...YOU go read the transcripts.  This isn't some fancy lawyer game, and this isn't some excersize in your pre-law class so that you can find a way to suck up to the prof.  The original email to Tressel had information that merchandise was recovered that belonged to his players.  N-C-A-A-V-I-O-L-A-T-I-O-N.  Or at the very least, potentially an NCAA violation.  In any case, it's time to go to the compliance office.

But that's not really why we're in trouble.

We're in trouble because Tressel denied knowing when the NCAA asked him last December.

He didn't fess up.  On purpose.  Doesn't matter what sort of bizarre reason he gave at that point or at any point.  Again, not some fancy lawyer trick.  These are the facts, and they are not disputed.  He f'ing broke a cardinal rule of his contract, and one that if violated will often lead to penalties against the program - which is why 95% of coaches are fired immediately when this happens.  The scorn is merited, albeit sadly.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

It is still obvious to me you didn't read the transcripts.

Maestro's picture

The reason we are in trouble is not solely because of Tress.  It falls at the feet at compliance as well.  If the Digeronimo crap doesn't come to light (thanks TP) then the bowl ban probably doesn't happen.  Without that part of the equation no FTM is issued.

vacuuming sucks

Colin's picture

The only thing I feel like saying about all this besides that Gene Smith deserves to be fired, is that if any positives can be taken from this situation...it's that there will be no pressure on Urban Meyer and the team next year. It will let Urban ease the team into his system with no pressure to "win now" or win the B1G in his first season as head coach. Coming into the second season we would hit the ground running and be in a really good position to get some payback.

BuckeyeNation's picture

You guys, I swear... I love this brotherhoodl!

277 comments, (& counting), and i've read them all. It was like reading this story over and over and over, about 25 times, only with additional insight & purgatory information! Now, to be totally honest with everyone, i'm not...really...sure...how much of this i actually retained, but... i will say this... my frickin head hurts and i think it's swollen! :( Time to go sleep this rotten day away! GO BUCKS!!!

O-H

cplunk's picture

What worries about the bowl ban isn't missing the bowl- I could care less. It's missing the 15 extra allowable practices, which would have been a big help in finishing up the first year in Meyer's system. Sucks.

Maestro's picture

Completely agree.  I was thinking about this last night.  Every practice is a benefit, especially when learning a new scheme.

vacuuming sucks

btalbert25's picture

I guess we can look at next season as one big practice though.  The pressure of having to win every game won't be as intense.  I mean, granted we want to win every game anyway, but they can go a little more balls to the wall next year.  Experiment a little bit in game without an error on the field costing the team a chance at BCS or championships. 

Next year is going to be a lot of fun to watch, and honestly though not having a bowl or championship will suck, it'll be kind of nice to watch a game and not have the stress of worrying about is the coach going to lose his job, or we lost one game so now we are out of the running Etc.  It's going to be fun to watch this team next year.  I have a feeling we'll see some 70 point games.  I just hope one in November against guys in funny helmets that are coached by Fat Bastard.

Maestro's picture

Yes, I am very much looking forward to the scUM game next season.  I think I will have to be there.

vacuuming sucks

Goose's picture

Set aside the fact that the rules are incredibly unjust and that the NCAA doesn't enforce them in any semblance of consistency for a minute.

The fact is that some number of people within the football program broke the rules and we had to pay the price.  The biggest problem I have with the whole thing is how our administration handled the whole thing.  If you look at the OSU penalties and the USC penalties, the clear difference is the attitude of the administrations.  USC fans that are complaining about the inequality need look no further than the attitude of AD Mike Garrett and the rest of their administration throughout the NCAA investigation were combative and uncooperative.  That's why they got hammered more than OSU.

While our administration was cooperative, I feel like the thing that they didn't do that cost us more penalties than most of us feel were warranted was that we didn't come across as contrite or embarassed.  The ONLY one that seemed embarassed was Tressel.  Smith and Gee went into damage control mode from the very beginning.  At first, it was a 2 game suspension for Tressel, then 5 games, then dismissal.  It was apparaent that they were more concerned with what the penalty was going to be and limiting it to as little as possible than being concerned with the infraction and showing an attitude like a little kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.  Like it or not, that is what the NCAA wants if an institution expects minimal penalties.

If we wanted the minimum, we should have fired Tressel immediately, fired Smith immediately and imposed a 1 yr. bowl ban in addition to what we voluntarily imposed. 

I also think that the attitude that we've shown since Meyer was hired probably hurt us.  Our coaches have been out there on the recruiting trail telling prospective recruits that we were confident that we weren't going to get anything further than the self-imposed penalties.  I don't blame Meyer for this.  I'm sure he was going by what Smith was telling him.  We should've waited to hire Meyer and kept it deadly quiet until after the NCAA gave its ruling.

Overall, I'm happy that we can move on.  I don't think a 1 yr. bowl ban is more than we should have expected with the way things were handled.  If you give me Meyer as coach with the penalties or Tressel without any penalties, I think I'd take Meyer.

phxbuck's picture

We are going to be scary good in 2013.  2 years of Urbans recruits, Washington and Spence with 1 year under their belts, and a QB poised for a Heisman run, it will be fun to watch. 

jimmycarter's picture

Several of the services, most notably those in the United Kingdom and the United States, sell reports to dealers and then encourage the dealers to display the reports on their Internet sites.nissan cube for sale | Used Toyota Hilux