Buckeye Motors

By Ramzy Nasrallah on May 10, 2011 at 1:00p
46 Comments
Zero down, zero a month with zero financing.  Zero possibility.

Welcome to Cargate!  It's a clever little sequel to Tatgate, except that not all of the stars from the original blockbuster returned for part two.  So basically it's Speed 2: Cruise Control.  Draw your own box office parallel.

We've heard the stories for awhile about how Ohio State football players - most notably Terrelle Pryor - had acquired vehicles from the same salesman, a guy named Aaron Kniffin.  That story, which grew wings once Tatgate broke in December quickly dissolved once OSU Compliance ruled in January following an internal investigation that nothing improper had occurred.

Fast-forward four months to Saturday when the Columbus Dispatch published its own investigation of the transactions between Kniffin and dozens of Ohio State athletes and their relatives along with the news that OSU Compliance was going to re-examine the already-vetted car deals.  So this is actually a sequel to the original, short-lived Cargate.  A sequel no one really wanted.  Just like Speed 2.

Mere hours after the Dispatch story broke, ESPN also made it a front page story.  For those of you playing the ESPN Selectively Newsworthiness Home Game, Cargate II was acknowledged exactly two years, eight months, 11 days and several hours faster than the Reggie Bush investigation was.  And it seemed even faster than that because in the Big Ten everything moves too fast for us hurrrrrrrrrr...

Critical analysis of the latest chapter in Ohio State's ongoing offseason shitshow was swift: From Georgia to Michigan the pre-investigation verdict was GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY.  Outside of Ohio, Americans were united and celebrating the latest Ohio State report as if the Navy had figured out a way to bring Osama back to life so that they could kill him again, repeatedly.  Haters hate.  That's why they're called that.

For those of us who are fans of the home team, just reading the headline, "Ohio State to investigate players' car deals" was like taking 100 laxatives.  However, there were several important details within the article, like: 

NCAA rules don't prohibit athletes from shopping at the same stores, eating at the same restaurants or buying cars at the same dealerships.  The rules prohibit athletes and their relatives from receiving discounts that are not offered to the general public.

Compliance was not as concerned if the player sucked at negotiating, nor if the player cut a sweet deal, but if he got a deal that no one else could have gotten.  Coercing Kniffin to "go and talk to his manager to see what he can do" is not an NCAA violation.  Any one of us in the general public who push hard enough can get this treatment.  [Side note/consumer tip: This meeting is a charade designed to make you feel special and get your business.  Congratulations, you've just unlocked the Everyone Gets It discount.]

Since Cargate is not a new story, the Dispatch report was full of numerous re-hashed items that - nonetheless - raise ze eyebrows off of ze face, like Pryor's repeated use of loaner cars that OSU Compliance claims to have cleared.  This is the same unit that actively looked through Tressel's emails after Tatgate was "closed," discovered his coverup, and reported it.  The people for whom that is not good enough are the same people who could never be satisfied with any level of self-policing at Ohio State.

Based on the fact that this is all being re-examined, it appears that there are some questions as to if OSU Compliance checked each vehicle, or if it merely "checked" each vehicle.  If it's found that upon further review that the first checks missed items big and obvious, then Ohio State and especially its compliance department deserve to be filleted.  That would be unpleasant, so hopefully the second investigation will match the first.

The Dispatch learned that as many as 50 Ohio State-ish people just happened to do business with Kniffin over the past six years, and that each of those transactions should result in a phone call to OSU Compliance to discuss the terms before they're finalized.  Additionally, all of the cars were used, American and sold for an average of less than $12,000 which puts this sample size solidly in the realm of "typical college student vehicle."  None of those details were suspicious.  If anything, they were comforting.  College students are supposed to drive modest second-hand cars. 

All told, there were only two WTF moments in the entire report.  This was the first one:

Officials at two national car-valuation companies...were asked by The Dispatch to estimate the value of the cars at the time of purchase.  The values they estimated were higher than the price paid in nearly half of the transactions.

...which means that the majority Ohio State players and affiliates paid more for their used cars than they were worth.  On a macro level this says there is nothing to see here.  Some buyers haggle until they get a deal that's still within the dealer's acceptable margin while others quit negotiating too soon and end up overpaying. Wow, Ohio State athletes and their families are getting treated just like everyone else.  That's what OSU Compliance had already determined. 

It is revealing that the Dispatch worded this vitally important information in this manner; it's sort of like saying that Tim Tebow failed to win the Heisman Trophy in 75% of his eligible seasons.  Well yeah, that's true.  The Dispatch could have also easily said, "records show that most of the buyers paid more than the car was worth" instead, but this passage was framed to make the case for guilt instead of innocence.  When it rains, etc.  So why is this a story at all?

Here's the second - and signature - WTF moment:

Public records show that in 2009, a 2-year-old Chrysler 300 with less than 20,000 miles was titled to then-sophomore linebacker Thaddeus Gibson. Documents show the purchase price as $0.

Oh.  That's why.

You want a red flag; you've got your red flag:  Gibson responded to the report by telling the Dispatch that he paid for and is still paying for the car, while the Kniffin told WTVN that the paperwork showed a price of $0 because it was a refinancing situation.  These claims should be very easy to prove or disprove.  The timing of those payments would be important as well (like, if Gibson began paying for the car right around 11am EDT last Saturday morning).  So that zero should summarily be explained, but even when it is there is no way a car dealership just gave away a car.

Dealers may use creative financing to help execute sales, but they don't just unload free vehicles.  Only Oprah does that, and when she does, she does so at full book value which means all of the winners get a nice tax bill.  Also note that "future NFL earnings" is a non-starter and impermissible collateral for a car purchase as far as the NCAA is concerned, since the rules prohibit athletes and their relatives from receiving discounts that are not offered to the general public.  The general public cannot bank future NFL earnings, therefore neither can college athletes.

Two former NCAA enforcement officers anonymously told the Dispatch that there was cause for concern.  There are exactly two causes for concern in the article as far as I'm concerned: One, obviously Gibson's $0 car.  Two, the fact that four of the Tatgate players also bought cars: That they were willing to part with trinkets at the tattoo parlor is precedent enough to be suspicious at the dealership or anywhere else.  It's circumstantial at best, but unfortunately Ohio State has earned the burden of circumstantial evidence being fishy enough to stink.


There's another explanation that the Dispatch ignored, and it was one that was summarily dismissed by the initial blogger outrage once the news broke on Saturday: That Kniffin managed referrals very well.  I can speak to this out of personal sales experience, having sold annuities, insurance and other investments for eight glorious, 100% commission months after college.  My first couple of clients were Chicago area doctors. 

Why did I deliberately pursue doctors?  Because they tend to have a lot of money and suck at doing productive things with it (note to any doctors reading this - please don't be offended; I'm talking about other doctors, not you).

By the time I decided a life of kitchen table sales negotiations wasn't for me and I turned in my clip-on tie, over 90% of my clientele had M.D. printed somewhere on their business cards and lived in either Illinois, Indiana or Wisconsin.  That's because doctors know other doctors, and salesmen work almost exclusively on referrals. 

Yes, it would be much easier to just sit at a phone and take orders, but salespeople aren't required for products that generate sales like that, so you're forced to ask your customers for referrals.  Kniffin, as well as every other competent used car salesperson in the country, does this as a standard practice.

Similarly, football players know other football players.  And they in turn know their own parents.  This is the essence of sales.  You wrinkle your nose but it's entirely plausible and the burden of proof that this wasn't the case would require prima facie evidence to the contrary.  The Dispatch investigation uncovered nothing of the sort.

It's equally important to understand the principles of auto sales in particular: Kniffin was a salesman representing a dealership.  Car salesmen do not have the authority to dictate price.  Sure, they can try to sell a beater to some rich idiot for five times the book value, but no dealership is going to allow the local football team and their friends to routinely buy their cars at a loss; that's terrible for business.

Gibson - or any other NFL athlete for that matter - would never become a golden goose that referred future fellow millionaires in Kniffin's direction to buy used cars.  At best, he'd refer more teammates to Kniffin, but this was a customer pipeline that Kniffin already had prior to Gibson's "purchase."  In all of those respects, there is just no way that Gibson drove out of the dealership without paying for anything.

Outside of Gibson's paperwork, there isn't any evidence from what's been reported thus far that should have previously turned any heads in Doug Archie's office.  In the eyes of the NCAA, the most nefarious thing a car dealership has done recently was to employ Oklahoma's starting quarterback and pay him even though he didn't do any work.  Jobs are monitored as closely as ever.  You actually have to show up to get paid.  If anything comes from Cargate, it should be from Pryor's documented jones for loaner vehicles.  That is the only thing from the Dispatch reporting that has the potential to stink, and it's old news.

Fortunately, Cargate does not include new or luxury vehicles.  When Steve Bellisari was pulled over for drunk driving in 2001 there were three words that leapt off of the police report: Used. Pontiac. Sunfire.  In strife, those three words brought relief.  (Note to any used Pontiac Sunfire owners reading this - please don't be offended.  Your car may be a discontinued piece of shit, but that's no reflection on you personally.  You're awesome, if only for not getting a DUI and missing the Michigan game).

It's not just Ohio State that checks every athlete's vehicle transactions to make sure they pass the sniff test: Michigan compliance began doing the same thing after Robert Traylor flipped an SUV and nearly killed Mateen Cleaves during a recruiting visit.  After the accident, compliance officials thought it was odd that Traylor would be driving such a nice car so they looked into the paperwork and discovered it was registered to one of Traylor's relatives. 

It turned out the SUV had been acquired through the late Ed Martin, who was the primary bankroller implicated in the scandal that effectively destroyed Michigan basketball for over a decade.  That accident in that vehicle started Michigan's unraveling.  You look out for cars and cash.  Burritos and discounted tats are a little harder to find, especially if your coach is covering it up.


Just as car dealers gain nothing by giving away margins and product, compliance officials have absolutely nothing to gain by looking in the other direction. Actually, they have everything to lose.  There is an element of self-preservation that comes with any job, especially that of a compliance department official.  Universities don't keep ineffective compliance officials on their payrolls, and OSU Compliance has a very long track record of not ignoring anything

OSU practically overreports violations, including infractions as silly as hockey players sneaking into a Nickelback concert (side note: Ugh) and a woman's soccer player greeting boosters at a university dinner program (side note: "Greeting" is code for "saying hello").  They investigate and report their asses off.  There is no lacking of institutional control as far as OSU Compliance's track record is concerned.

As far as the list of real and perceived Buckeye infractions is concerned, the Dispatch, as it has been for decades, has been all over the situation.  From revealing Andy Katzenmoyer's class schedule during the summer of 1998 to the list of self-reported secondary violations, the local media flagship has demonstrably been the opposite of investigative journalism is towns like Baton Rouge or Tuscaloosa.  And they're to be applauded for that.  You shouldn't be comfortable with the idea of the media colluding with any large entity, even if you wear its jersey and love it so much.

The damage from Cargate as of now isn't like Tatgate where the leader of the program has been proven to be a serial liar.  This amounts to more PR shame for Ohio State as a dirty, cheating program.  The Buckeyes are getting slaughtered in the court of public opinion.  This is Katzenmoyer's AIDS Awareness, Ballroom Dancing & Golf - "the eligibility curriculum" all over again, but as a strike to the athletic department's image instead of to Ohio State's academic reputation.  The latter of which, by the way, still suffers from that episode.

Obviously I'm in the camp of Buckeye fans who will not lose sleep over Cargate, not because there's no more sleep to lose as a result of Tatgate, but because I just don't see any NCAA violations coming out of the information that's not only already been released, but examined by OSU Compliance. 

However, as long as people like Brooks Melchoir, everyone's favorite axe-grinding Bruce Hooley apologist is still actively repackaging old Tatgate information as breaking news instead relying on his conventional pageviews ploy of posting tits and ass (click with caution: link contains both tits and ass) then we can be assured that there is still a significant amount of blood in the water.

That being said, the story is not going to go away.  It's compelling, deals with a very popular antagonist in Ohio State and it sells well.  It will not burn out, rather it will stay in circulation until it is exhausted and fades away, must like Clarett eventually did.  My prediction for Cargate is that while it has arrived with a lot of hype, unlike Tatgate it should amount to little more than a blip in the historical record.  Not unlike Speed 2.

You can follow Ramzy on Twitter

46 Comments

Comments

Matt's picture

First:  I have been terrified about Cargate until reading this.  If you aren't too worried about it, then I am much less concerned than I was before.  

Second:  I think Steve Bellisari was awesome precisely because he got a DUI on Neil Avenue and missed the Michigan game -- with Bellisari under center in Ann Arbor, I'm confident we lose that game, Jonathan Wells beast mode or no.  For Bellisari, 90% of winning is not showing up.

builderofcoalitions's picture

For Bellisari, 90% of winning is not showing up.

Gold.

I always wondered if Wells laid off the grass right after Bellisari's arrest, allowing him to actually be able to concentrate on hitting the hole for once.

Because we couldn't go for three.

Colin's picture

I wish people outside of Ohio State fans would take an article like this seriously, the reasoning is unquestionable but people won't read it because it is on an Ohio State blog and therefore it is by default too biased to be true.

Nevertheless, this article is awesome and makes me feel a hell of a lot better...about the car thing at least.

Maestro's picture

Guilty Guilty Guilty.

That's the take home message to everyone outside of the OSU fan base.  It's getting old, but that's why the phrase HATERS GONNA HATE exists.

Can't wait for August 12 to come and go.

vacuuming sucks

builderofcoalitions's picture

I sort of had the same suspicions, but didn't want to think about it too much, fearing I'd lose sleep. Thanks for for putting things into perspective once again, Ramzy.

And who says bloggers rush to judgment? This is like two days after the fact with some actual clarity. Take note, journos.

Because we couldn't go for three.

The_Lurker's picture

I can't wait until the 30-for-30 episode reveals which OSU players were inept hagglers and paid more than their used cars were worth. Nicely done, Ramzy.

SKWDCOP's picture

Ramzy - think you are misreading (and subsequently writing)

You cite:

Officials at two national car-valuation companies...were asked by The Dispatch to estimate the value of the cars at the time of purchase.  The values they estimated were higher than the price paid in nearly half of the transactions.

You write:

...which means that the majority Ohio State players and affiliates paid more for their used cars than they were worth.  On a macro level this says there is nothing to see here.  Some buyers haggle until they get a deal that's still within the dealer's acceptable margin while others quit negotiating too soon and end up overpaying. Wow, Ohio State athletes and their families are getting treated just like everyone else.  That's what OSU Compliance had already determined.

The material you are citing does not infer what you write about in the supporting paragraph.  The orginal writer's meaning is -

The values (of the cars purchased) they estimated were higher than the price paid in nearly half of the transactions. In other words 50% of the purchasers paid less money than the actual cars blue-book value, and this is not a good thing.

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

I haggle the living snot out of dealerships and pay much less than the sticker price....I don't pay half, but I ensure I get the best possible deal.  How is value being determined?  Blue Book?  What the dealership paid for the car?  This seems difficult to determine since all car dealerships will negotiate.

SKWDCOP's picture

Was more about misunderstanding what he was reading, the about haggling.  The reference was saying less then half were paying fair-market value, and thus, is an issue. 

Matt's picture

DERRRP. I'd stop throwing stones and assess what you wrote.  The Dispatch used the term "nearly half."  "Nearly half" necessarily means less than 50%, which means less than a majority.  You say that "[i]n other words 50% of purchasers paid less money."  That is wrong on its face -- nearly half is less than 50% by definition, so 50% of purchasers did not pay less money.  And what does "nearly half" mean?  45%? 33%?  In any event, Ramzy is saying that it should not be surprising that some percentage of people pay more for a car than other people.  Indeed, in more than half of the transactions, the OSU players/relatives paid book value or overpaid.  Is that an abnormal breakdown?  We don't know because the Dispatch provided no standardized metric for assessing whether it is normal.

SKWDCOP's picture

Not throwing stones, just saying the material in the original material was not what you read, happens to all of us at one time or another.

Matt's picture

And I'm saying that you are misreading what Ramzy wrote.  It probably happens the nearly half of the time, or 50%, someone reads an Ramzy article.

SKWDCOP's picture

I got you, yep.  My bad Ramzy. Either way without data the original story leaves a lot of speculation.  I can see this being easily overcome - cept the zero.

Keith's picture

+1

Plus it's an exercise in futility to call a third party for a used car valuations when neither has set eyes on said vehicles.

Crack reporting by the Dispatch

 

Arkansas Buckeye's picture

Wouldn't it imply that the other 50% paid more that the acutal blue book value?  

"It seemed like a good idea at the time."

SKWDCOP's picture

Some probably paid value or probably above (this is what happens to the normal person, and thus where the dealer makes money) - it did not say what the other half paid, or by what amount less those who did not pay book value forked over, just that it was less than the value.  Without actual data hard to tell.  Also those who paid less, could have been buying hard-to-move vehicles, and thus did the dealer a service, who knows?

NC_Buckeye's picture

First, ditto on feeling like crap until I read this. Thank you Ramzy.

Second, for all of you State Penn trolls that are dismissing what Ramzy says above before you even finish. Read this passage very carefully:

As far as the list of real and perceived Buckeye infractions is concerned, the Dispatch, as it has been for decades, has been all over the situation.  From revealing Andy Katzenmoyer's class schedule during the summer of 1998 to the list of self-reported secondary violations, the local media flagship has demonstrably been the opposite of investigative journalism is towns like Baton Rouge or Tuscaloosa.  And they're to be applauded for that.  You shouldn't be comfortable with the idea of the media colluding with any large entity, even if you wear its jersey and love it so much.

Add State College to Baton Rouge and Tuscaloosa. State College and the PSU community are virtually synonymous. There's no outsiders present that would give a clue that something improper was going on. An outsider there would stand out as much as a Catholic in Salt Lake City. Which leads me to my other point -- what paper is going to report it? The Harrisburgh Patriot-News? The Altoona Mirror? The Post-Gazette and the Inquirer are the most likely candidates from 140 and 200 miles respectively... not likely.

Some day we're all going to find out that JoePa's program isn't as squeaky clean as you suppose. When that happens, I'm going to drop troll bombs on BSD daily. Payback's a bitch.

BuckeyeSki's picture

Good luck @ BSD. They are whiney and uber-sensitive. You'll get the Ban Hammer real quick. That's a badge of honor from this Buckeye's perspective however.

Banned from BlackShoeDiaries since 2008. Crime: Slander/Defamation of Character Judgement: Guilty

m1ek's picture

You are just terminally stupid. Pittsburgh's press would LOVE to uncover a story about PSU; so would ESPN (that's why the frequently mentioned OTL piece was such a temptation for them - it's a man bites dog piece).

And the townies in State College are, as one of the homers at the homerhole mentioned, likely to be far MORE irritated by the gownies than their corresponding Columbusites, which is why the DA made such a name for himself the last few years. Each townie in State College has to deal with a couple of gownies; the overall student population at tOSU is far more diluted in Columbus.

btalbert25's picture

So in a previous post you criticize Buckeye fans for using poop jokes and lame defense, yet you resort to name calling to try and get your point across.  Classy move.  Now you'll really have credibility to the 11 W community. 

Maestro's picture

I actually started a thread on another board that I frequent thanking the Penn State fans there for not being like M1EK.

vacuuming sucks

m1ek's picture

Cool story, bro! And you're making me appreciate Michigan fans.

m1ek's picture

Oh no! Whatever will I do!

If you do something stupid, I will call you stupid, at least right after you do it. Is this name-calling? Maybe. I happen to think "stupid-head" is more of a name-cally thing to do, but it's your call.

Sincerely,

Stupid-head

btalbert25's picture

I guess I just don't believe in calling someone stupid because I disagree with their opinion. 
 

NC_Buckeye's picture

Yeah, so here's the stupid point I'm trying to make. Unless the Post-Gazette or the Inquirer stations reporters in State College, they are never going to have anything to report. Reporters have to be local to foster relationships and get the poop... which the Dispatch is clearly doing. Same goes for ESPN, SI, and Yahoo for that matter. (Yahoo can claim they "broke" the Tressel story all they want. We all know tOSU's compliance office "broke" the story.)

The other stupid point I'm trying to make is that if the Post-Gazette or Inquirer (or ESPN, SI, or Yahoo) did station someone in State College -- they might as well be walking around with one of those orange radio collars on, the kind you used to see on Wild Kingdom. (That kind of dates me, I think.) State College is an insular environment. Townies, gownies, whatever.

But... we do have this interweb thing. Which is why I know eventually someone's going to tweet or facebook something they shouldn't have. And that's when the fun is going to start.

m1ek's picture

Both those papers do, in fact, station somebody in State College for large amounts of time. Facts. Pesky.

NC_Buckeye's picture

Not pesky at all. What are these reporters names? Office addresses? Phone numbers? After all, since they're facts this should be easy to provide. I'd be happy to contact these reporters to find out what investigations they've conducted since they've been assigned the Happy Valley beat.

m1ek's picture

Ron Musselman is the PPG reporter in State College. Even says so in his LinkedIn bio, one of the first hits.

I don't take homework assignments, so kindly blow the rest of it up your ass.

NC_Buckeye's picture

Oh and please keep repeating that Penn State and Stanford diatribe. That way when the shit does happen, it will make the schadenfreude that much sweeter. Unlike Stanford you guys have to abide by FOI requests.

 

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

Still not sure why said salesman received game passes.  I have purchased a couple cars, and received a pretty good deal.  Not once did I even think of sending the salesman a Christmas card, let alone a free pass to a MNC or BCS game.

This and the little fact that OSU has taken this guy off the pass list is what has me worried.

That being said, how pissed off are the bad guys of the world going to be when this team starts the season 5-0.  Looking at you, Sparty.

Maestro's picture

I agree that this could raise some questions, but is it impossible to imagine that an athlete would give his tickets to someone who helped himself, mom or dad with a car purchase as a thank you for good service.  Not to me.

Having the ability to give out tickets can raise a lot of issues in general, but I would think that the coaches instruct the players in the potential pitfalls.

vacuuming sucks

nickma71's picture

Those things are available to the general public.

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

Free passes for huge games available to the general public?  Why am I just hearing of this?

And it still doesn't explain why OSU would take him off this list.  If he is on the straight and narrow, why ban him from these things available to the general public?

GoBucks713's picture

I think it's High time we blame this whole thing on Herbie. You know he had something to do with this. He does commercials for one of the competitors doesn't he? Wouldn't this be considered job security on two fronts?

-The Aristocrats!

btalbert25's picture

I bet Herbie had a Miata from a columbus car dealer.  Maybe a nice VW bug convertible.

GoBucks713's picture

and it was probably pink or purple, and had a trunk full of hair bleach and Sun-In

-The Aristocrats!

NW Buckeye's picture

Thank you Ramzy for adding some common sense to this whole fiasco.  I find it interesting that yesterday Alex was ready to bring the hammer down on OSU because of the Dispatch story.   Your take on it is a refreshing 180 degree switch from his.  Many of the points you discussed here should have been brought up in the original story about this. 

There are many here concerned about the $0 reported on the transfer of Gibson's vehicle.  It would not take much leg work to find out the actual details of this deal.  It could be as simple as one finance company transferring title to another, or some type of lease deal, where the sales tax is paid on each payment instead of the upfront purchase price.  It could be something much worse.  Either way, I am sure we will find out. 

Alex's picture

NW...that's the beauty of sports...two writers-two different views on this...I appreciate the refreshing points Ramzy brings here and actually agree with most...in no means was I ready to bring the hammer down, but despite what valid points Ramzy brings up in today's piece, I'm not feeling too confident in how things will turn out....in NO WAY do I think the death penalty or anything of the sort is coming down on OSU---likely vacating wins, loss of scholarships, etc with bowl bans as the potential worst thing possible and then less tangible things such as the way this effects recruiting/public perception will sure to come down hard......I think there are many ways to look at this situation and while I can only hope that everything Ramzy wrote today is how the NCAA sees it, I personally don't share the completely positive outlook on this situation....the only good thing is that this car situation won't effect Tressel as I wrote yesterday and that the compliance office did do it's job so hope the NCAA has mercy on us and things work out here

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

While I see both points of view, I tend to agree with Alex.  In no way does this situation help JT's cause come August.  Even if nothing comes of it, the perception is that something doesn't smell right.  That ain't good.  Until I hear someone involved in the situation say it will have zero impact on the decision made in August, my gut tells me this can only lead to harsher sanctions. 

No matter how I twist it, I always come back to "we are screwed".  Maybe I'm just preparing for the worst, but ask yourself one question...if this was happening at Bama or Florida, would you think that everything is really on the up and up, that this car salesman is legit, and that the NCAA would go easy on them or give them the benefit of the doubt?  After the person in charge of the program lied several times?  While they may be seperate issues, it all happened on coach's watch.

Again, that ain't good.

gravey's picture

Nice job Ramzy.  Again.  Saw some dude at the PD took a swipe at you.  Had to respond.  If they could only think and write like the folks here at 11W, I might actually read the PD more often. 

Jason Priestas's picture

The Plain Dealer? Do tell...

Denny's picture

Chuck Yarborough, their link-master/troll bro. 

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2011/05/pm_ohio_stat...

Ramzy has a basement man cave! LOL!

Taquitos.

GoBucks713's picture

Did you read that joker's Bio? Drummer? Really? I bet he couldn't even complete a paradiddle without using control-c control-v. He should rename it the 7-stroke Troll in his honor. Sorry. Anyone that comes out firing guns saying that they are a Drummer normally is a bad one and has less chops than a 5th grader. I'm callin the Percussive Arts Society right now to ensure he's not a member AND get his membership revoked if he is one.

-The Aristocrats!

SKWDCOP's picture

Well acording to the Dispatch the BMV is also now investigating the sales because

"The BMV is investigating because Kniffin said the purchase prices listed on transactions with OSU athletes and relatives do not reflect accurate sales prices, as required by Ohio law."

This is going to get ugly, and now an organization w/ ability to use actual law are getting involved it only gets worse, ask the "Fab Five". 

I think it funny that Kniffin trying not to be the only one going down with the ship.  He acknowledges that he developed relationships with the players and their families, but he said they represent a small percentage of his customers and that others had final say on car sales. 

Subtitled arrest my boss also. 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/11/older...
 

 

 

BuckeyeSki's picture

TIMEOUT!!!!

 

Don't bring us into this!!!!

Banned from BlackShoeDiaries since 2008. Crime: Slander/Defamation of Character Judgement: Guilty

Irricoir's picture

Anyone notice the spelling of this car salesman's name? For that alone I would consider him a shady character and enter into business arrangments with awareness and due care.

I don't always take names when I kick ass but when I do, they most often belong to a Wolverine.