Wednesday Skull Session

By Chad Peltier on February 20, 2013 at 6:00a
61 Comments

Good morning, dear readers and welcome to your regular Wednesday Skull Session.

Yesterday was anything but regular, with exciting college hoops, NCAA crime and punishment news, Buckeye roster updates and conference expansion rumors. It was quite a news day for college athletics. 

Indiana and Michigan State lived up to the billing, with Indiana ultimately pulling out the narrow victory, 72-68. Indiana's Victor Oladipo made a strong case for Big Ten Player of the Year (potentially stealing it from his teammate Cody Zeller), finishing with 19 points, nine rebounds, five steals, and a block. 

While Indiana and Miami took care of business, the same cannot be said for #5 Florida, which lost to Missouri (!) last night. 

College basketball still refuses to name a truly dominant team, but last night made a few things clear: 1. It won't be coming from the SEC, and 2. Indiana and Michigan State both have strong cases for the best of the best. 

Big Ten basketball is an absolute treat this season. B-1-G! B-1-G! B-1-G!

 RUMORS. ...and Big Ten basketball might be getting even more awesome: 

As we posted in the Buckshots yesterday, InsideMDSports.com got the "Maryland to the B1G" news correct before, so it's difficult to simply dismiss this information.

While these three ACC schools have been mentioned as possible targets for Big Ten expansion since November, this is the first report that one of the three – Delany's alma mater at that – has an actual committable offer.

Just like modern recruiting, it's hard to say just how official the Big Ten's offer was to these three schools – UNC in particular. Yesterday's rumors are probably analogous to a recruit gaining an official "committable" offer, rather than just receiving 50 letters written in crayon, a 2 a.m. Facebook message or ten, and a mixtape of love songs from Jim Delany. 

Again, this doesn't mean an ACC exodus is imminent, but any one of these three schools (or Notre Dame, of course) would be a huge victory for Delany, the Big Ten's academic status, and the level of basketball competition in the conference. As for football – well UNC is OK, right? 

 NO PARTY AT SOUTH BEACH. To top off the night after some excellent basketball, Miami finally received its official notice of allegations from the NCAA. 

While NCAA punishments will be detailed next (potentially in addition to Miami's self-imposed two year bowl and conference championship ban), the most significant news is that Miami was hit with the much-dreaded "lack of institutional control" violation.

Miami is hoping that banning barely bowl eligible 7-5 and 6-6 teams is enough to avoid steeper penalties, but the LOIC tag doesn't look promising. They were not exactly thrilled with the news, as Miami president Donna Shalala said "We deeply regret any violations, but we have suffered enough." She wrote further that:

"AND IF YOU DON'T LOVE ME NOW (UNC, ND, UVA, GT), YOU WILL NEVER LOVE ME AGAIN" - B1GB1G expansion wasn't the best Rumor I heard yesterday

"Many of the charges brought forth are based on the word of a man who made a fortune by lying," Shalala wrote. "The NCAA enforcement staff acknowledged to the University that if Nevin Shapiro, a convicted con man, said something more than once, it considered the allegation `corroborated' - an argument which is both ludicrous and counter to legal practice."

Actually, that's a completely fair point. I'm no lawyer (and any lawyers in the audience are welcome to comment on this), but how in the world can one man corroborate himself? 

 AN URBAN ALLIANCE. While it probably pains University of Georgia officials to actually agree with Urban Meyer, they and other SEC schools seem to be joining Urban against recruiting deregulation

While noting that these deregulations might end up harassing recruits and their families, University of Georgia athletic director Greg McGarity and several other SEC ADs agreed that it might just be too costly for athletic departments. The money quote (literally): 

“Some school is going to want to get on the high dive with this and go all in and spend and spend,” McGarity said. “It is going to start a round of competition among schools that is going to be limitless.”

Folks, that is what we call an arms race. Everyone has an incentive to cooperate against recruiting deregulation. As much as Nick Saban and Alabama enjoy signing top classes, they would likely prefer that their recruiting expenditures didn't skyrocket to compete with those of Ohio State, Georgia, Texas, and others. 

Without a reconsideration of the decision to deregulate recruiting, there is certain to be a spiral of insecurity in which schools will be forced to spend more and more money on increasingly silly recruiting tools – Fatheads? 200 page brochures? 50 handwritten notes? Facebooking girlfriends? – that may or may not actually aid in recruiting. 

 OVERSIGN ME. Matt Hinton released a very in-depth study of oversigning across the country, revealing that it's still Alabama on the oversigning throne with 95 scholarship players. However,

In general, though, it's fair to say that recent rules changes targeting oversigning have largely paid off, especially in the SEC, whose members once dominated the genre to an extent that is no longer true across the conference as a whole.

The rest of Hinton's list includes non-elite programs like Washington, UVA, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, and Minnesota. In fact, I'd argue that Alabama is the only elite program that oversigned this year. 

That suggests that the Big Ten might not be able to excuse poor performances against SEC teams based upon oversigning (in the future, that is, as some SEC schools are still enjoying the positive effects of previous oversigning even if they aren't over 85 scholarship players this year).

 SIMON LOOKS FOR A PAYDAY. Finally, John Simon made Bruce Feldman's list of the top ten most intriguing combine prospects, which also included guys like the Honey Badger, one-time Heisman "lock" Geno Smith, and Denard. Bruce writes: 

10. John Simon, Ohio State, DL-OLB: Urban Meyer and seemingly every other coach who has been around this guy raves about his motor and toughness. Simon, the Big Ten's Defensive Player of the Year, is a guy who figures to have a shot at benching 225 in the 40s.

He's also pretty explosive off the bench, having broad-jumped 10 feet and, according to OSU strength staff, has clocked in the 4.6s in the 40 despite weighing 270 pounds. A shoulder injury, which kept him out of the Senior Bowl, is something that is worth monitoring. A bigger question will be whether he's seen as stiff when it comes to positional drills as team project where he'll play at the next level.

The fact that Simon even sniffed the 4.6s at 270 pounds is nothing short of incredible. Here's to Johnny Simon finding a good fit on NFL draft day. 

 S'MORE LINKS. Marcus Lattimore is hoping to shock the world... Sportscenter's future... What you have all been waiting for – a glossary of sports statistics!... Some serious beer science... ESPN begins scoring 2014 recruiting efforts... NCAA – yikes

61 Comments

Comments

oregonianbuckeye's picture

Nice job, Chad. Thanks for another great SS. A couple of points.
1. IU's Oladipo was incredible. This makes IU the strong favorite for the B1G #1 seed. tOSU is looking at the 5 seed right now (and may move up to the 4), but regardless, that would be a semi-matchup with IU. If we land the 5, we would play Thursday vs. #12 seed (Penn St.), Friday vs. #4 (Wisconsin) and if we get there Saturday vs. #1 (IU right now). Yikes. I'd much rather play ttun or sparty, as I hate the matchup with IU, especially a day after taking cheap shots from the Bruiser.
2. "The rest of Hinton's list includes non-elite programs like Washington, UVA, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, and Minnesota. In fact, I'd argue that Alabama is the only elite program that oversigned this year." ttun and ND aren't elite? hmm ... I guess I respectfully disagree. I was also surprised to see Minn, MSU and ttun on the list. Kind of makes some of the B1G gripping about oversigning less justified.
3. Is it just me, or is Donna Shalala making things worse? "We deeply regret any violations, but we have suffered enough," Miami president Donna Shalala said in a statement. Suffered? Yeah, right.
4. Possible 4.6 40 for John Simon. Good Lord! The man isn't human.

Baroclinicity's picture

Every time I watch Oladipo play, I find myself really wishing we had him.  Strong player, to say the least.

When you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

81Alum's picture

Normally, I'm a homer and root only for Buckeyes, but with Oladipo its hard not to root for him.  He's my choice for NPOY.

scc8t's picture

I hope the Cavs draft Victor - I think he could be a really good pro.

Triv's picture

Think he's too similar to Waiters for the Cavs to take an early pick on him

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

Earle's picture

Except for that defense thing.

SOCK PUPPETS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!!!

Ethos's picture

I think we have all learned that college presidents need to butt out of athletics as they have no idea what they are doing.  Anytime they open their mouths about an NCAA investigation, it makes it 10x worse for them.  The NCAA infractions committee are people, and if there is one thing people that have some power to hurt you don't like, it you talking down to them.

"What do you need water for, Sunshine?!" - Coach Coombs, if you don't love this man, you have no soul.

AcrossTheField11's picture

I don't know how you can say that.  Athletics have grown to the point where they are a major factor and influence in most D1 academic institutions.  The President is the defacto CEO of that institution and needs to know 100% what is going on in their athletic department, especially when athletics have become such a large source of cash flow, publicity, and public perception.  I'd argue that they have an obligation to come to the defense of the school they preside over.  While I'd agree that some of Gee's comments were not well-thought-out, not all comments can be put in the same bucket.  
The NCAA has been losing the respect of its fans and institutions for some time now and the Miami case has only perpetuated the view of the governing body as heavy handed and inconsistent.  Quoted comments from university power figures like Shalala's go much further towards keeping the NCAA in check than our criticisms in message boards from people like us across the interwebs.  

Time and change will surely show how firm they friendship... O-HI-O.

sarasotabcg's picture

remember that the B1G presidents did not vote on MD until the day before MD's official press conference. That should tell us that the approval process is a gradual one where both sides are given outs until the last moment.

The fact that UNC was given an official invite and that they are completing their exit strategy ppwk pretty much means they're a done deal unless something drastic, like a negative outcome in the MD exit fee case, occurs.

B1G presidents apparently scheduled to meet in April for a vote.

oregonianbuckeye's picture

Good point @sarasota. The other reason April may be the time this moves is that Maryland is still working through the lawsuit regarding them leaving the ACC. Rumors are Maryland will hear back in early April. UNC, UVA and G-Tech will certainly be watching to see how things play out. 

Buckeyeneer's picture

I agree. It has been said that an invite is not sent until the answer is known. Delaney doesn't want egg on his face. No invites until the answer is yes.

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University

gwalther's picture

Rumours - http://youtu.be/DRte0S2a_dA
classic 80s song right there.

Class of 2008

Ethos's picture

If John Simon doesn't get drafted then I will no longer be watching the NFL because they will prove to me they obviously have no idea what they are doing.

"What do you need water for, Sunshine?!" - Coach Coombs, if you don't love this man, you have no soul.

Dougger's picture

Chad you're right that was exciting.
did you throw in some fleetwood Mac because they'll be opening in Columbus in april? I'm excited

I like football

slicksickle's picture

Ray Ray on ESPN will make that network even more unbearable. Tv's would explode if he decided he wanted to start doing horrific color, ala Magic last night.

gwalther's picture

"VICTOR OLADIPO KNOWS IT'S WINNING TIME!" - Magic

Class of 2008

jfunk's picture

Surprised you didn't mention the lawsuit against Maryland has been upheld considering that could have a pretty big impact on other ACC schools defecting.

Scotch: It may be too early to drink it, yes; but people it is never to early to think about it.

NC_Buckeye's picture

Uh, the lawsuit hasn't been upheld. All that happened is that the judge ruled against MD's motion for dismissal. Which means the lawsuit in NC is going to proceed.
Don't forget that MD filed their own lawsuit in Maryland as well since they assumed (correctly) that an NC judge would be biased against them. All the legal stuff is about 8 months to 1.5 years from being resolved.
I'm kind of surprised these UVA/GT/UNC rumors are coming out now. I thought we'd start seeing them once it looked like the suits were going to be settled.
Who knows what Delany is up to?

jfunk's picture

Thanks for the clarification. Guess it's not as earth shattering as I thought.

Scotch: It may be too early to drink it, yes; but people it is never to early to think about it.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Ooops! I was in the process of writing my response to JFunk (below) and got distracted (I actually had to do a little work for a moment) and now your earlier and better comment makes mine redundant.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Apparently, what the court upheld was the ACC's "right" to proceed with the lawsuit; or, conversely, the court denied MD's attempt at a dismissal. I'm not an attorney, but I'm guessing that MD's attempt to dismiss the lawsuit up-front was a bit of a long-shot. Now, they'll go back to hashing out the size of the settlement, etc.
Sure, if MD had succeeded in dismissing the ACC lawsuit altogether - presumably meaning they'd not have to anything to the ACC - that would have made the Big Ten invitations to schools like UVA, GT, and UNC that much more enticing; however, they might also be waiting to see if the final price tag on MD's exit is, say, only $20 million or something.

Catch 5's picture

The Hinton article is a fair read.  I don't disagree with his article, but while he doesn't utilize baseless accusations that are often found from oversigning criticisms, he stops short of telling or recognizing the whole tale.  Yes, Alabama oversigns (as understood by most fans).  Yes, they do it more than most schools, and yes, it is an advantage to keep a full roster of scholarship players (but not an unfair one).  It does NOT require, as Hinton suggests, an abnormal amount of attrition.
What Hinton does not discuss is that attrition happens at all schools.  Where Alabama is set to "lose" 10 players over the summer, some of the teams on the list (and many not on that list) have already announced some "losses".  Alabama has not.  If Saban announced all the attrition he knew was coming, how much would they be over?  I contend it would be 3 or less, which would mean he could have signed this class under the B10 oversigning rule!
Furthermore:

Every team beneath the top two or three on that list is well within the range of "natural" attrition, and most of them will probably end up a little below the cap once grades, legal issues and injuries have taken their toll.

First:  What is "natural" attrition?  Isn't that what this all boils down to?  If Bama is forcing more players out than would otherwise be leaving, wouldn't they necessarily have a higher rate of attrition?  This is where I think Hinton cut it short.  Where is his analysis here?  I've looked at it in a very limited scope (and would love to see someone like Hinton pursue it), but I've seen no evidence that Bama (or any other noted oversigning team) has such bloated attrition so either they aren't cutting players or everyone else is too. 
Second:  Doesn't the part about most teams ending up below the cap kinda justify oversigning?

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

NC_Buckeye's picture

Ugh... so tired of the rationalization. Apparently the NCAA is going to have to step in with a rule mandating a 365 days-a-year 85 scholarship limit. Also no more gray-shirting. If you fall below 85 because of injuries or attrition, so be it.
End of problem.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I'm not convinced, by the numbers, that over-signing provides a competitive advantage, at least in the aggregate. A bunch of mediocre programs have been among the chronic over-signers - Miss St, Iowa St, Kentucky, USF, Sun Belt programs, etc.
Among other long-established advantages, Alabama's biggest competitive advantage over the last six years = Nick Saban is a badass coach.
The problems with over-signing relate to ethics (fair treatment of kids) more so than competitive advantage (fairness among programs). And, I agree, it's very difficult to disentangle which cases were "natural attrition" from those that were not. 
However, when we see programs like Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Arkansas "over-signing" for a period of 7+ years . . . at a certain point, the likelihood that the rates of attrition at such places are "natural" (i.e. not random variation) maybe starts to decline. They begin to look "outliers." How much data do we need before we begin to suspect that Bama's players aren't especially unlucky when it comes to career-ending injuries and undisclosed family emergencies, etc.?
 

chicagobuckeye's picture

A bunch of mediocre programs have been among the chronic over-signers - Miss St, Iowa St, Kentucky, USF, Sun Belt programs, etc.

That's because these teams don't oversign with 4 and 5* recruits, instead they sign extra 2* recruits and the likelihood that they are going to turn out great is much lower. I have recently decided I'm over the whole oversigning business and Nick Saban is a great coach, but when a team has 95+ players showing up for 11 offensive and defensive starting spots its much more likely that they will be better than 85.  In the long run, all you need is 1 better player in those 10 extras to say that it creates a competitive advantage.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

That's because these teams don't oversign with 4 and 5* recruits, instead they sign extra 2* recruits and the likelihood that they are going to turn out great is much lower.

If we're looking at the signing patterns as a relationship to program success for all 120 programs over x-number of years, it doesn't really matter that some of the major programs tend to land a bunch of 4/5 stars while lower-level programs tend to land 2/3 stars.
Looking at all the data in the aggregate, the factor you cite will generally "come out in the wash." If over-signing were a competitive advantage, we'd expect the Sun Belt programs that over-signed to perform better over the long haul than ones that did not, even though they'd all be landing mostly 2-star players. Maybe few of the extra two-star players would turn into great players, as you suggest, but presumably some of the them would turn into very good ones. In essence, we'd expect to see over-signing Sun Belt programs punching above their weight classes, but it's not clear that's the case.
Likewise, we'd expect major, historically-dominant programs that have tended to "under-sign" to punch below their weight classes, and that hasn't appeared to have been the case.

chicagobuckeye's picture

+1 for rationality. I think it comes down to your final statement. While you say that teams playing above their weight class and below their weight class doesn't seem to be a thing I disagree. Why would say Auburn be a team that wins a national title, but Wisconsin isn't even in contention for one of those top 2 spots. I think you can look at OSU and say its not true look at the success, but I think you can say that teams like Auburn and Arkansas have been playing well above their weight class while teams like MSU (I know their on the list, but I don't really count over by 2) and Wisconsin don't seem to be in the top 5 come years end.

Catch 5's picture

I agree with your statement about those other teams, but take issue with the sentiment that some teams show up with 95+ players.  This would be a violation of the NCAA rules.  Noone has more than 85 scholarship players on their roster.  That said, I agree that Saban's roster style does provide a full roster most years, and having a full roster gives a better chance of having that one extra guy you mention - but oversigning is not the only way to get that player.  Ohio State has lost ~18 players since Meyer arrived (new coach/players leave, I get it) to various attrition, and despite having a reduced scholarship cap has signed 49 players the last two years as a result. 

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

Boxley's picture

It is my understanding that these (Alabama bound) over signed kids are ones, that pretty much every college in America was trying to get, but since Saban over signed he kept them from rival schools (win, win) and then he can cut the ones that were actually overrated, before the start of school.
So he get to pull in top rated kids, then cull out the ones that aren't good enough for his team. Can I do that, buy two or three cars, see which one is really good, then toss aside the ones I do not like at no cost to me.
That is a huge recruiting advantage. Think of all the kids recruited in the past that did not pan out, that you could keep from your rivals, until they are not able to go elsewhere. What a bargain!
This process of culling ensures he gets to see all of the kids on his home turf day in and out, and then drop the ones not good enough. Huge advantage, no concerns with making a bad choice here, just take all of the best and drop those that are not tops at their position.
Need three receivers, recruit six, then keep only the best three, rinse repeat for every position. 
What are the future college choices for these kids he has culled. Are they eligible for D1 colleges? Are they now tainted goods because they were not good enough to make it. Many get "medically" declared ineligible. What is their future like now.
It is a dirty practice and is used by the unscrupulous to the disadvantage of 17-18 year old kids.
A

"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." President T. Roosevelt

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I agree that an approach that combined deliberate over-signing with forced-attrition would be a "dirty practice . . . used by the unscrupulous to the disadvantage of 17-18 year old kids."
The rest of your analysis, however, only looks at the (potential) competitive advantages, but does not consider (potential) disadvantages.
Two possible disadvantages:

  1. The program & staff get overloaded with personnel shuffling problems; the staff and players are dealing with relatively higher levels of anxiety and complications over the need to pare down the numbers; basically, rosters with 87+ players become almost like HR nightmares.
  2. The staff begins to acquire a reputation as cutthroat, disreputable, etc., which influences how the parents/guardians of future recruits perceive that school as a possible destination for their loved ones.

I point out the possible disadvantages because several mediocre programs have been among the chronic over-signers, while other programs at the low end of the spectrum (under-signers?) have flourished. "Over-signing," by itself, has not been especially predictive of program on-field success, at least in the aggregate.

chicagobuckeye's picture

I disagree with number 2. Wouldn't you say that the fact we are having this discussion and specifically around Saban creates the thought that maybe he is cutthroat and yet kids still sign with him. You are assuming, incorrectly, in number 2 that these 17 and 18 year old kids are completely rational and that they don't believe that they are the best player in the country at their position. If a kid sees Alabama win the next National Title, it is likely that they will "forget" the cutthroat nature, and sign with them anyway.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

But I think you're relying on one anecdotal example. Kids might want to play for Saban in spite of him being cutthroat because he has been so spectacularly successful. That doesn't mean that cutthroat-ness is a non-factor.  

Catch 5's picture

First, a player who signs an LOI MUST be given a one-year scholarship upon full-time enrollment so your scenario of cutting them before the start of school is not possible for the newcomers.
It is possible for returning players, however (though no former Bama player has ever said he was tossed aside as you describe, and not for future players as Bama now issues 4-year scholarships) but my point is that oversigning is not the problem.  Can Urban not cast aside any underperforming players just as readily?  If they aren't contributing on the field it is not a loss to the team anyway so cut them loose and sign more in the next class.  The only way to know who is doing what you describe is to look at long-term attrition percentages, a project I'm doing but only have a couple year's worth of data (which shows no major difference in teams like Bama / LSU, and Ohio State / Florida).

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

Boxley's picture

It is my understanding that these (Alabama bound) over signed kids are ones, that pretty much every college in America was trying to get, but since Saban over signed he kept them from rival schools (win, win) and then he can cut the ones that were actually overrated, before the start of school.
 
So he get's to pull in numerous top rated kids, knowing he is going to then cull out the ones that aren't good enough for his team. Can I do that, buy two or three cars, see which one is really good, then toss aside the ones I do not like at no cost to me.
 
That is a huge recruiting advantage. Think of all the kids recruited in the past that did not pan out, that you could keep from your rivals, until they are not able to go elsewhere. What a bargain!
 
This process of culling ensures he gets to see all of the kids on his home turf day in and out, and then drop the ones not good enough. Huge advantage, no concerns with making a bad choice here, just take all of the best and drop those that are not tops at their position.
 
Need three receivers, recruit six, then keep only the best three, rinse repeat for every position.
 
What are the future college choices for these kids he has culled. Are they eligible for D1 colleges? Are they now tainted goods because they were not good enough to make it. Many get "medically" declared ineligible. What is their future like now.
 
It is a dirty practice and is used by the unscrupulous to the disadvantage of 17-18 year old kids.
 

"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." President T. Roosevelt

Citrus's picture

It isn't that oversigning in and of itself gives a team a great advantage. It is that oversigning in combination with being  top destination for recruits provides a great advantage (for the reasons you mentioned).
 
If the Buckeyes oversized, we would have Timmons for instance. He could be an absolute stud and better than guys Urbz had slightly above him. Le'Vonn Bell was very interested in Ohio State but rated lowly. What an advantage to be able to take these guys and acquire a few diamonds in the rough, while discarding players that don't pan out.

Further, just because many of the teams that do it aren't elite- that doesn't mean it isn't an advantage. I could get a head start on Usain Bolt but he would still beat me in a race. That doesn't negate that a head start is an advantage. Now if Bolt was taking a head start it would be a near insurmountable advantage. Bolt=Bama

rdubs's picture

I think the solution is to just allow every team 25 signees every year.  Then let the coaches decide how many JUCOs to take, how many players who might not qualify, how many with character issues.  So everyone could have a maximum of 125 players on scholarship at a time (essentially impossible because one whole class would have to redshirt and there be no attrition).  If 25 seems like too many just use 22 or some other agreed upon number.

Catch 5's picture

I've seen this proposed before and it is a very good idea.  My feelings are that you would see most rosters stay around the same size as there is only so much playing time available, and most of these kids will look elsewhere if they are buried on the depth chart, but I certainly would like to see if I'm right.  Good idea.
 

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

gbm's picture

Great Skullie. Thank you

mtharp's picture

UNC and ND would be two awesome gets for the B1G.  I really hope they can pull these out...

buckeye76BHop's picture

This NCAA stuff is a joke IMO...nothing to see here...now the U gets lack of institutional control...really????  Mark Emmert and all the others at the NCAA just knocked their integrity down a few levels.  Not to mention...I say it's high time the NCAA does what they should and FIRE him.  I know this won't happen...but it should.  If any of us did this at our jobs, and passed the buck, we'd be held accountable, and fired.  I wish DJ was still at 11W bc he and I, being the cynics we are...we right on this one.  

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987 

oregonianbuckeye's picture

Haith to receive 'less serious failure to monitor.' Just when I thought the ncaa couldn't get any more annoying ...
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/21736182/misso...
 

BED's picture

I was hopeful that all of the headers would be Fleetwood Mac themed.

For example the section on Simon could have been Future Games.  I don't know.

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

DJRoss926's picture

A theory I've heard floated a few times on Columbus radio is that Delaney could be trying to pick apart the ACC by nabbing Virginia and UNC, leaving a debilitated conference for Notre Dame and possibly forcing their hand to join the B1G. 
I can't say I'm totally against this line of thinking.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Hmmm . . . that theory has been floating around the interwebs, including at 11W, for the last six months or so. Now, I'm wondering if your Columbus radio guys stole that theory from 11W, or did 11W contributors/commenters first steal it from some other source?
One of the side-effects of living in the "information age" is the confusion over who should get credit for developing different theories/ideas, or which media outlet really "broke" a story.
Does anyone know who/what is the true origin of this theory that Delany is using MD and then UVA/GT/UNC/etc. to break apart the ACC to force ND's hands? Just curious.

btalbert25's picture

For me, it was just a conclusion I drew after Maryland joined and there were rumors of the Ga Tech, and the SEC and B1G dividing up Virginia and NC.  It wasn't necessarily that I thought it was part of Delaney's plan, but I felt like if the dominoes fell like they were being rumored to fall, that it would force Notre Dame to join a conference, and that conference would likely be the B1G.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

It seems like you're suggesting that the "theory" sprouted-up independently, organically among hundreds/thousands of cfb obervers the instant that it was announced that Maryland would join the Big Ten - that no one in particular gets credit for the idea. Moreover, it was to be expected that many would ponder such questions because they followed relatively self-evidently from the logic of the situation.
You're probably right, now that I think about it. 

Earle's picture

The B1G is going to crowdsource its next expansion, since it worked so well for Mountain Dew.
BTW, the spellcheck function is annoying me, since neither B1G nor crowdsource are in the dictionary, apparently.  Stop red squiggling me!

SOCK PUPPETS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!!!

btalbert25's picture

I don't know that is how it really got started, but all it takes is for one or 2 people to mention that idea on a site like this and it would spread pretty quickly.  I'm not sure that there was just 1 source that said this is Delaney's plan.  I don't necessarily believe that he's raiding the ACC specifically to get Notre Dame (I tend to think adding 4 teams from that conference just to get Notre Dame is a bit far fetched), but I think he knows that the combined efforts of the he and Slive will likely leave Notre Dame with a useless ACC contract, and will likely force them into a conference. 

DJRoss926's picture

Sorry, should have clarified: that's just where I heard it first, no idea really where it came from originally.

BED's picture

Also, the U's prez is named Donna Shalalalalala??

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

btalbert25's picture

I think the consolidation of the conferences marks a real threat to the NCAA.  On Frank The Tank's slant, a guy was commenting last night that he thinks there's no nice round number for the B1G to stop at, maybe they go to 30.  Maybe the SEC loads up and goes beyond 20 as well. 
If those 2 conferences load, together they could bring the end of the NCAA.  If 45-60 of the largest and most power schools in America are in those 2 leagues, why would they agree to be governed by the NCAA.  If they want to do Pods and have a 4 teams playoff for a conference championship, who the hell cares if the NCAA thinks it's ok or not.  What are they going to do about it, put 40 teams on probation?
If the 2 conferences added that many teams, hell they could have their own tournaments and playoffs that would rival what the NCAA could put out.  The 2 conferences football playoff would be far better than anything that would be left from the other conferences. 

BucksfanXC's picture

I've been thinking this too. Like why do the schools all agree to be governed by the NCAA anyway, what benefit do they gain from it?

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

btalbert25's picture

A governing body needs to be present, but the NCAA and it's crazy rulebook are obsolete now.  Emmert has tried to flex his muscles the last couple of years and make it appear they are still relevent, but it's a joke.  The whole system is corrupt and stinks.  Now, I don't know that if the B1G and SEC for example did grab a bunch of schools up and start their own thing the system would be any better, but at least the NCAA wouldn't be the only act in town.

BucksfanXC's picture

Well at the very least they could give out a "College World Championship" trophy and claim to be the kings of college football. Whatever the hell they want to call it. The joint conference could be the governing body.
(I wanted to post a picture of Bender from Futurama shaking his fist and saying, "We'll start our own athletic association, with blackjack and hookers" but I'm having trouble attaching images. That and the NCAA technically already has hookers.)

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

btalbert25's picture

I think,with Zeller, Oladipo emerging as one of the better players in America, and the incredible 3 point shooters IU has, we did see last night that there is a great team in college basketball.  Michigan State isn't chopped liver either.

nickma71's picture

Actually, that's a completely fair point. I'm no lawyer (and any lawyers in the audience are welcome to comment on this), but how in the world can one man corroborate himself? 

 
Easy, with his own pictures. Let me google it for you. He has pictures as good as Rich "The fixer" Perry with UNLV players in the hot tub.
http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news?slug=cr-renegade_miami_boost...
 
 

droessl's picture

Recruiting regulations didn't stop Oregon from making a damn COMIC BOOK for Jonathan Stewart and mailing him a page every week.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0806/cfb.orego...

Brutus's picture

I can bench 225 in the 1's so there's that.

btalbert25's picture

225 would probably have me pinned to the bench screaming for a spotter .
 

kevinfrenchfry's picture

sooo is there actually such a thing as an offer to join a conference? I've been hearing there are "landing spots" but no cut and dry "we are offering you a spot" deals.  My other question is is there a magic number the big ten is trying to hit and is there actually a prospect of going after an Oklahoma, texas or MAYBE ND?

cinserious's picture

That Lane Kiffin article made me want to puke. I especially love the "cutting dead weight"part. It's this dude serious? If this article was written word for word from big ten country, it would have been a farce.

Gone ham, be back soon...