http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/blogging-the-buckeyes/2013...
Reported by the Dispatch. Gee sees a move to 16-20 teams.
I've argued that a 20 team B1G is appropriate and sustainable. If Texas and Notre Dame are not in that mix, a solid move to 20 may include the likes of Georgia Tech, Miami or Florida State, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, and either Kansas or Boston College. Interesting times ahead for the B1G and college football.
UNC and Duke for sure, athletic and academics. GT for Atlanta.
Will UVA go without VT? Or do we have to take VT too?
Popular commentary indicates that VT will end up in the SEC, with a pairing of NC State. The SEC wants NC and Duke to be sure, I'm just not convinced they can make that sell for academic reasons.
As long as both UVA and VT have a stable home (read: B1G and SEC) the VA legislature won't get involved. It has been said that another thing that UNC is contemplating is, does NC State get a recruiting bump and move ahead of them in football if they go SEC and UNC goes B1G.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Not really. Yes, NC State would be SEC, but with the history of UNC as well as the academic incentives, there is no reason not to pick UNC over NC State if you're neutral. UNC was an NFL pipeline when Davis was the HC and Fedora is a great coach in his own right.
/Duff'd It
No Duke.
The way the BTN deal works, taking two teams in the same state/footprint is a financial disaster. Once you have one team, you have the higher rate per cable subscriber. A second team just divides the pot in two.
i know people think Duke and UNC won't separate, but they will. UNC is financially much more attractive. Once they get their heads around the way the dominos are going to fall, they will leave Duke to prevent becoming a team in a conference that doesn't have access to the truly big dollars.
If UVA and/or GA Tech fall, UNC will leave Duke and make that bball rivalry an out of conference rivalry. To not do do would be criminally stupid in terms of finance. It's always money in the end.
I disagree CPLUNK. What you are referring to is subscriber rates. And yes there is an argument to be made to adding only 1 school per state for that reason. But it is not the end all and be all of arguments. Sometimes a school, like Duke in basketball for example, adds siginficant value by making other products attractive... like college basketball on the Big Ten Network. Not to mention the fact that Duke is a preeminent research institution that fits very well with the academic direction of the B1G. Think of it this way: if the B1G just added Rutgers, are we really to believe they aren't interested in Duke? Not buying it for a second. Full disclosure: I attended Duke and Ohio State but have no stake in this game of expansion; I'm just very interested in the topic of expansion from a purely business perspective.
There is value in basketball, to be sure, but Duke basketball adds a minuscule amount compared to football. I don't have the numbers here with me, but it's comparatively tiny. Basketball just doesn't move the needle when it comes to the big bucks.
As for Rutgers, thanks to the BTN contract including it as part of the NYC market, if BTN is able to leverage its ownership of the Yankees broadcasts via YES network to get BTN on basic cable in NYC, Rutgers will then bring more money to the B1G than every B1G school but OSU, TSUN, PSU, and Illinois.
its a different world now, unfortunately. You can completely discount bball from the conversation, and a new market (even a small one like Kansas or a hard-to-earn one like MD in the DC area) just crushes the money brought by a bball program like Duke in a market we would already "own" contractually.
if Duke makes it in the B1G, it wil only be because UNC went to the SEC.
Time will tell, I guess. My bet is that if UNC ends up in the B1G, which I think ultimately it will, so too does Duke. But if UNC goes to SEC, so too does Duke. I think Duke is a commodity that neither the SEC nor the B1G would pass on.
If there is an "odd man" out in North Carolina, in my opinion it is Wake Forest. That school has to be hating the expansion extravaganza.
How is Jed Clampett's dog going to join a conference?
Jed Clampetts dog is named North Carolina??
I kid, I kid....Every one knows it's Wake Forest.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
I would like to see the research dollar numbers, but I don't think Duke is anywhere near the huge public schools in terms of graduate students, graduate programs or money earned through the federal government or private industry.
We do not need Duke for basketball (and we do not need Kansas or Louisville either). We are the gold standard for basketball.
I like Duke's academic reputation, but that is it --- Northwestern at least brings Chicago with it (in theory). Duke has no business attraction to the Big 10
The last I have heard is that Virginia is as close to a "lock" as you can get for the next move, though no one is completely sure about the timing. Most suspect that it will be whenever Maryland gets their exit fee straightened out. They have countersued the ACC so, this could get interesting. for #16 it is between Georgia Tech and North Carolina. GT is much more interested supposedly while UNC is weighing thier options between the B1G and SEC. Not sure if this is just a negotiating tactic on Delaney's part, but he has apparently told UNC that we are not interested in adding Duke.
So UNC has a decision to make. Come to Big Ten Country and enjoy mingling with their basketball, academic, and researching equals (with/without Duke) or going SEC which fits them culturally and hooks them up with the most prestigious football conference and definitely keeps them attached with Duke.
I don't know which way UNC will go but they are weighing the pros and cons now. If I had to give my best guess I doubt that they move first and number 16 is GTech. If we manage to get a solid block of ACC schools (UVA, GT, maybe FSU) first, UNC's move might be made easier.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Interesting that B1G doesn't want Duke. Wonder why? If we miss on UNC, do we go for Duke then i.e. is it a geographical presence that we want?
I would be very, very surprised if B1G is not interested in Duke. In fact, I would call that shocking.
Beyond the academic hurdle of UNC and Duke to SEC, there are sports related issues particularly for football and basketball. The B1G is quietly building a nice basketball empire, and that's something that has to appeal to both UNC and Duke. On the football side, do UNC and Duke really want to put themselves through week after week of humiliating defeats to SEC foes? Don't think so. Let's be frank, top-to-bottom the B1G is not the SEC on the football field, and I have to believe that any ACC team looking at both conferences is thinking they like the idea of a softer B1G than the juggernaut that is the SEC.
I think Duke is going to be on the outside looking in. They'll always be attractive for basketball, but their football isn't good and never will be. They'll be l umped in with the remnants of the ACC and Big East that form a new conference, not major conference.
BTALBERT - That gets to the craziest thing I have heard. The Catholic 7 is looking to buy the Big East brand. If that happens, they will, in effect, kickout all the other schools. Additionally, they (Catholic 7) have reached out to Duke and Duke is at least entertaining the idea of joining if the ACC goes down and UNC detaches from them.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Neer where are you getting your info? Sounds like the prognosticating I have seen.
Being an NC resident, I see the downside of Dook as being that they aren't widely followed in this state. UNC & NCSU yes. Dook's following is mostly outside the state because that's where their students & alumni come from. But like Northwestern, they are a small private university with not that big of a student/alumni base. And like you said, they are very good at basketball. But cbb doesn't move the revenue needle. That's why the SEC won't be interested in them either.
So it makes sense that they are considering this Catholic 7 league. It would also explain Krzyzewski's radio rant about Maryland pursuing revenue over tradition. It's sinking in to the Blue Devil Athletic Dept that they are going to be on the outside looking in when this is all done.
#fistpumpgobuckeyes
NC - I am no insider, I just am a junkie for this stuff and have scoured the interwebs. There are a lot of people who are throwing stuff up against the wall to see if it sticks, looking at you, West Virginia posters (The Dude of WV, Tuxedo Yoda, etc.). The best source I've seen for expansion updates, at least from the Big Ten's perspective is on Scout.com's paid OSU site. There is a guy there, who by all accounts, has an inside source in the B1G offices and he feeds the info that he gets into that forum. He always caveats that these are the things that the Big Ten wants and not necessarily going to happen. (He did call MD & Rutgers before it was reported elsewhere.) Since it is a paid site, I generally wait a few days for the info to trickle out to other places in the blog/twittersphere, before I post anything here, though I will admit that the Catholic 7 outreach to Duke was reported today. Check it out if you want more dirt.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I don't think Duke is out of it, but between the two, UNC is the cuter sister. If Delaney can get UNC without Duke that is the best scenario as it allows the B1G to go after another market, for the sake of gaining another market or to either entice ND or perhaps Texas (though Texas is more of a stretch).
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
From a pure geographic footprint strategy, I agree with that statement. But other variables are at play, including filling valuable airtime after football season. There is no bigger name in college basketball than Duke and I think it adds significant value to an expanded B1G-20.
UNC and NC State will be teams that are added to the bigger conferences. Duke won't be. UNC to the B1G would be a bigger name in basketball than Duke. They have more titles, more wins all time, more history and tradition etc.
I honestly can't see why Duke wouldn't want to be in the B1G because the B1G Network would allow for more games on TV than they currently have without having to jump through hoops on WatchESPN.com
/Duff'd It
My prediction when Maryland and Rutgers were added was that a 20 team B1G is the end game. My thoughts were UNC, UVA, GaTech, Kansas, then Texas and Notre Dame.
I also believe the SEC and B1G are not really in opposition here. They both want a piece of Virginia and North Carolina's growing markets. They'll end up with NC State and Va Tech. With the 2 conferences successfully cherrypicking these teams from the ACC, Notre Dame's ACC deal will be worthless and the Big East will be shot, so they'll either have to join the catholic league in basketball or bite the bullet and join the B1G.
I agree BTALBERT. Harvard Business Review did a study several years ago on a term called "coopetition." They used case studies like Canon and HP in the inkjet industry, showing how two dominate powers in a market will work together to essentially "fix it" how they want it so both succeed. The B1G and SEC are similar in that regard. Both can, and will, win in the end
Absolutely. They will get the big tv deals and the prime tv slots as well as the pick of the available teams. The ACC breakup has to get notre dame heading our way.
The more I think about it, the more 18 makes the most sense. And more specifically, four 18-team conferences.
Two divisions with nine teams each, meaning 8 regular season conference games (4 home, 4 away). That leaves 3-4 non-conference games that each team can schedule on their own, just as it is today. You only play the teams in your division during the regular season, and at the end, the two teams who win their division play in the conference championship game with a chance to make it to the CFB equivalent of the "Final Four."
That occurs with each of the four major conferences (let's say PAC, Big 12, B1G, and SEC). A selection committee ranks the four remaining conference champions for the national semifinals, and the winners then play for the title.
This would mean 72 football programs with a chance to win the big prize. Essentially, every game matters, with the non-conference games really only mattering for seeding purposes. That would mean many good non-conference tilts between CFB powers.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
Personally, I like the "pod" idea that you can implement with 16 or 20 team (i.e. 4 pods of 4 or 5 teams). By rotating the pods, that would allow for us to actually play the other teams in the conference more often (every 3 years, if rotated every year)
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I also favor a "pod" structure should the B1G move to 20. But I like the idea of fixed pods as opposed to a rotation. If organized properly over time it could foster some deep rivalries within each pod but also permit flexibility for "cross-over" rivalries and what-not.
That's some very clean math, O.C.T. Which 6 schools do you see adding enough value to the Pac 12 to warrant an invite?
Right off the bat, first instinct is SDSU, Boise, BYU, possibly a Colorado State or Air Force. Rumors are that UNLV is thinking about building a heck of a football stadium. That would make them attractive as well. Then it gets hazy.
I could see a scenario where a few of the Big 12 schools defect to the PAC, only to have Big East/ACC leftovers head over to the Big 12, or a new conference altogether including some of the current Big 12 schools.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
I think you can add Hawaiii to that list of potential candidates, as well as a couple Texas schools like Houston, for example.
I agree those are the most obvious candidates, but I don't know that any of those 6 institutions you mentioned as options are valuable enough to expand the Pac 12 pie enough that each member's 1/16th share is equal to its current 1/12th. As someone who has been a fan of the hypothetical 4 superconference model, I've really struggled to find viable candidates to fill out the Pac 16 (let alone 18+). From the perspective of Larry Scott, would the addition of any individual school mentioned as a potential Pac 12 expansion candidate add enough athletically, academically, and financially?
None of those programs have strong enough brands to move the needle, except Boise's football program recently. But Boise is so far away from meeting Pac 12 standards in every other way they would not be a net benefit to the Pac 12. Not to mention, what happens when Chris Peterson leaves/retires? San Diego St (USC, UCLA), BYU (Utah), and the duo of Colorado St and Air Force (Colorado) reside in markets already owned by current Pac 12 teams. Plus none of them contribute enough of a brand. UNLV is in a non-Pac 12 major market, but averages 21,199 per game in a stadium with an official capacity of 36,800. Realistically, only 2 or maybe 3 Big XII schools would even be attractive to the Pac 12. I like the idea of 4 power conferences (with the Big Ten #1, of course) as much as anyone and more than most, but I struggle to find value-add candidates to get the Pac 12 beyond its current membership.
The PAC 12 seems to be similar to the B1G in valuing large state research schools. I don't see it adding teams like Boise.
Pac got stuck with Utah in its bid to get Texas.
It actually need to jettison a school or 2 (OSU & Wazu) to become great again
In no way, shape or form do the NC/VA schools fit in culturally with the SEC schools. Having grown up in North Carolina, the culture is far closer to the Mid-Atlantic states, which I'd argue that North Carolina more closely relates to than the Deep South, and the same could be said for Virginia. Taking Duke/UNC makes no sense, and they are not tied at all, other than through an athletics rivalry, which they could schedule out of conference anyway. UNC and NC State are tied financially, as they're both members of the NC School System. It would be much harder to break up UNC-NC State than it would be to break up UNC-Duke. I admittedly root for NC State on the side, and I'd rather see the B1G add them in the future (better fanbase, larger student body, larger alumni base, good engineering school), if they do earn an invitation to the AAU, which they are working on.
Meh, I don't buy into the fact that there is a culture for conferences anyway. With in a given conference schools are vastly different anyway. I've been to Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa, Gainesville, Knoxville, and Lexington and have found them to be towns that aren't alike at all. They campuses may have some similar traits, but don't all campuses? There are some distinctly different traits to every campus too.
I would say the same between my trips to Iowa City, Champaign, Columbus, and Madison too. Anyway, culture means nothing with expansion anymore anyway, it's all about dollars.
I agree with that. I was merely disproving the notion that the NC schools fit in culturally with the SEC.
Yeah, I agree. I think the fans in western NC fit in pretty well though lol!
That reminds me. Vandy has nothing in common academically with SEC. What are they doing in that conference? What about adding Vandy to B1G?
You know that's a great point, but I don't think they get much more by joining the BIG. I guess I'm trying to say that it's probably not worth their while. But, I would love that. What a quality school.
Nashville would be a fun little weekend trip too. I think Vandy would be a great add. Also it would really drop the SEC's academic rankings which could help us in a war with SEC over a team like UNC or FSU.
I could see Vandy moving to the B1G. Parallel move with regard to athletic revenue but academically they would get CIC membership. I do not think the SEC has an exit fee.
Vanderbilt would fill the "Nerdwestern" role in the Leaders Division. Smaller, private university, but an amazing academic and research reputation. It could happen, but I don't see the B1G out there trying to grab a bunch of small, private schools (back to that culture/"fit" thing, I guess).
If the B1G model holds true in future expansion, there is no way that they will cede both the Florida and Texas markets to other conferences.
I am with you on that one, GNESQ1. AAU is a major factor for the B1G, but it is not the supreme rule by which all B1G decisions are made. Out of Texas, Florida State, and Miami, my bet is the B1G takes one... probably one of the Florida schools. My preference is Texas but it is is looking to be a long shot.
Why do people think that Miami or Florida State would happen?
No one thinks Da U has even a remote chance in the B1G. Word is they reached out to B12 and said that they are interested. P.S. B12 has a meeting and will discuss expansion . . . on Monday, I think.
As for Florida State, they have been in talks with all three (B1G, B12, SEC) FSU wants SEC 1st, then B1G, then B12. It was reported that FSU has a 5 year plan to reach AAU status and the B1G is, at least, enteraining the idea of FSU. They are not a favorite to join, but after various overtures to the B1G and this proposed AAU plan, they have helped their case significantly.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I wouldn't say the U has zero chance. I'll keep going to the well because it keeps on giving -- if the B1G just added Rutgers, then the U certainly has a chance for an invite. (No offense to those in Jersey... I lived there 4 years so I have some appreciation for the state.)
I think that for growth and maximum revenue, the B1G needs eyeballs. Other than California, the two most populous states (read as cable and satelite subscribers) are Texas and Florida. I doubt that the B1G is going to lose out on all of three of those major markets. They have shown that they are not necessarily concerned with on field results, if the academics are there (see Rutgers and Maryland), and they also have said that academics are not going to keep a potential member out if it moves the football meter (see Nebraska)....they need money to feed the beast.
Florida is not a unified tv market. It makes up 6-8 dstinct markets. So nabbing FSU wouldn't give the B1G the whole state. Keep in mind it is an 8 hour drive from Tally to Miami. Because of location, UF has the best chance of nabbing the most markets. Taking all of FL would probably require snagging FSU/ UF and UM.
Looking at the Designated Marketing Areas (DMAs) for Florida, you are correct, there are 10 distinct television markets in the state. It looks something like this:
The Tallahassee DMA is obviously a no-brainer, and while it isn't the biggest in the state in terms of viewing households, it is bigger than Gainesville, which is right next door. Neighboring Jacksonville is the #49 market in the country, and Tampa/St. Pete is #19, with Orlando/Daytona Beach coming in at #14. Among those three potential markets (not including Gainesville), FSU could - in theory - help the BTN net as many as 3.9 million households.
I agree with your assessment, however, that the rest of the DMAs in the state are not "a lock," necessarily, as USF and Miami certainly will have significant viewer bases in the Southern half of the state.
Yep, probably the same map and same discussion that Delaney is having. Don't think that USF has any substantial footprint though. No tradition, no nothing.
Having lived in Florida since 2000 I have learned it's VERY different from what we are used to in the MIDWEST!
While the proximity to the campus does have an effect on how many fans live in the area, it's not as much as you would think. Because Florida has had a fairly recent population growth there really isn't the long-standing historical fan base down here for any school.
In my experience there are alot of bandwagon fans down here that will pretty much root for whatever Florida team is doing well at the time! In the early 2000's there were alot of Canes fans in Jacksonville, when they fell off and the Gators rose up most of those Canes fans became Gator fans!.............IT'S SICKENING!
"Because I couldn't go for 3"
That's because there are three teams which makes it different than the dynamic in Ohio. I have experienced similar things with Mich/msu/nd.
I have seen more USF stuff in Florida than Fsu, USF has been picking up traction for years.
Sort of an oxymoron to say 'picking up traction ... for years'
You know better than I, but mathematically, when you go from 100 fans to 200 fans that is a tremendous percentage increase. But, if the U started with 100,000 you have not really made any inroads
I'm just making a point about usf's fanbase, it's much larger than most people realize. I would think it would be non existent but it really isn't. Believe it or not, I see that logo far more than I see noles or canes.
Haha you know I had a class with Marco Rubio as professor and this map was on the cover of our text book. I should have remembered the number of markets.
Poli Sci? Mass communications?
Politics of South Florida, I guess he knows a little something about it.
Yes, I suspect he has a thing or two to share with you minds. Was just curious since you mentioned the DMA map on the text book; figured it could be a course on a few different things that might be in his wheelhouse.
One of the main premises of the course is that Florida is comprised of politically and culturally diverse regions. That there is no "Florida pride" because eveyone is from somewhere else. Politically the state is all about the different media markets.
was a very no-nonsense this is how politics really work in partasian class. Cool experience.
That's the great thing about college, access to interesting people and knowledge.
We all know this expansion is inevitable. I just hope we get a legit king or two out of this deal if the end game really is 20. If UVA, GT, and UNC are added, those schools will increase the conference revenues and open up new recruiting grounds, but they aren't "king" programs in football.
Florida State should be strongly considered in all of this. Academics are improving. They're a ways away from AAU status, but the B1G can afford to take on an academic project school. They've taken on Rutgers and Maryland as athletic projects. Fair is fair.
I just don't want to look back on all of this and say the B1G added 8 teams and not one of them was elite. Bleh.
You have to remember though that who is "elite" will change quite a bit if the whole super conference thing happens.
Case in point, Texas A&M. In one year, they went from being Texas's little brother (and arguably the youngest of three depending on Texas Tech in a given year) to pulling in their best recruiting class ever, having a Heisman winner, and getting major cred for beating Bama. They're going to build on that. They're going to be able to sell recruits on coming to the SEC.
Meanwhile Texas is still Texas. Even if they recover from their current slump, they just go back to being exactly what they were before, but arguably in a weaker conference.
We're maybe five or six years from Texas being the little brother in state to A&M.
People keep talking about Rutgers and MD being minnows, but I think they keep forgetting that when you change the conditions of the environment, you can make major changes. I'll stake my reputation that within six years Rutgers is very much like Wisconsin; an always solid member who can once in awhile threaten to win the conference.
It's not really about adding teams that are good at football right now. It's about adding money, and doing so with teams that have advantages that just couldn't take effect where they were. UNC football is a sleeping giant. That program has a ton of advantages and could take off in a major conference. UVA and Georgia Tech are a step down but still have great potential. I'd take UVA over Virginia Tech or West Virginia in a heartbeat. Yes, UVA has not been the programs they are, but it has a great recruiting base and with B1G money can surpass Va Tech and WVU's facilities and coaching quickly.
its all about potential, not past results.
I definitely agree that they're adding potential. I also agree that Rutgers in partiocular is going to be a yearly challenger in about 8-10 years or so. They have a terrific AD and are sitting on great recruiting turf.
I guess I should have clarified. I'm not dissapointed with the schools they're looking at. I just think this round of expansion could be sold easier to the masses if a team that moved the needle, like Florida State, was involved. As opposed to an "investment" in growing programs.
Mmmm, I don't agree with that. I have zero interest in an Ohio State v. Rutgers or Ohio State v. Maryland matchup aside from us hanging 50 or 60 on them. Those two girls... will they improve... they better with $40 mil coming their way. Is that why we added them? Nope. We added them because of projected revenues. Ultimately, in the driving seat of viewership ARE the ones that have produced...ND-Texas-FSU-the U, and other prime movers of the sport. I've said it before and say it again, if all we end up with is a bunch of chumps, the SEC has won again. In the end, for me, and for many Buckeye fans, it is about beating the SEC on the field. We need "kings" to accomplish that.
Agreed, but what I'm saying is we need people that will be "kings" in ten years when the environment is completely different.
You mention the U, for example. When I first started watching college football, they were nothing. Not only were they not a king, they were completely unknown. Meanwhile, SMU and BYU were real powers. Boston College was a power too. The idea that ten years later SMU would be gone, BYU would be middle of the road, BC would be a mediocre school with occasional good years, and the U would put more players in the NFL than anybody else was ridiculous. It was inconceivable. But it happened.
Things change, and as the environment changes who is and is not a king will change too. Washington was a king for a long, long time. Now?
The idea is to get schools that fit the new environment and can become kings. The other idea is to avoid schools that likely will not be kings in the super conference environment. Miami is probably the A number 1 on that list. I wouldn't take them if they paid me personally.
You're right about needing kings, but I think you're basing your opinion on who to get with way too much emphasis o who is a king now or has been one recently.
just my opinion, of course- I hope I'm not coming across as denigrating you. Not my intention at all.
Not at all. That's what a forum is for... to converse and share opinions.
I'm not disagreeing that an eye to the future potential of school is a factor. Common sense would suggest that it is. I just think it is down the totem pole as a factor for adding a school... way down. When you look at the start of this whole process, there were only two teams that the B1G tried to land in tandem... Texas and Notre Dame... "kings." That fell through. But the B1G's shaking up the Big 12's tree provided another "king"... Nebraska (although, in my opinion, Nebraska will remain a shell of its former self unless Texas is paired with it... Nebraska requires the Texas recruiting grounds to succeed annually). Do Maryland and Rutgers have their place in this whole end game? They do. But in my opinion, it is not for the reason that Delaney tried to sell to media when he added thoso two... that is, future potential. He added them because of pure dollars and cents and who else he could attract now because of those media markets. That's all. Delaney sees an end game in sight and positioned himself to make the best final play possible.
But I do think Rutgers and Maryland will improve over time... they should with the money coming their way.
I have serious doubts that any conference will end up adding kings like Texas and ND, nobody has yet.
Nobody has yet, but they may be brought to the table IF the super conferences solidify and then add more in-conference games.
Agree with Riggins.
Why whore ourselves out to get mediocs. I would like to get N Dame and one of Syracuse/BC, and stop. It would preserve our geographic and academic integrity and we would still have an unassailable lead in television sets.
Boston College is an interesting one. It is a logical pairing with Notre Dame. And its primary benefit, aside from the Boston and New England TV market, is often overlooked -- its elite status in hockey. Again, the Big Ten Network will be looking at ways to generate programming content when football season is done, and for that reason I don't think we can rule out suitors that bring something tangible to the table that helps viewership in other sports. Do I see Boston College in the final B1G-20? No, but I'm also not willing to rule out that possibility.
If Big goes to 20 then they are a must.
I Like them for the academics. I had not considered the hockey angle, but basically if we get to 20, we could realign the hockey and have Minn, MSU, Wisc, tOSU, BC, N Dame etc.
Bc and Minn in the same conference, holy shit.
I'd prefer UConn to BC if they must get another New England team. Better basketball. Public university. Screw pandering to the freaking Irish. So over them. Hope they have fun in whatever is left of this ACC/Big East conference after the next round of expansion.
Syaracuse isn't going to happen, it lost its AAU membership. BC maybe. ND is the no-brainer that should happen but probably wont for some stupid reason.
UVA and VT haven't even been in the ACC together for 10 years, I'm sure they won't be a package deal if the B1G only asks UVA. If they ask only VT, however, someone will step in and try to pair them together.
/Duff'd It
I think you're right
Add UVA, GT, UNC, FSU, Kan, ND.
Wisc, Iowa, Neb, Kansas, Minn.
ND, Ill, NW, Ind, Pur.
OSU, Msu, mich, PSU, Rut.
Md, UNC, FSU, UVA, GT.
Could be a good regional pod setup.
Stage a two week Conference tournament.
Right now neither pods nor a two-stage conference tournament are allowed under NCAA rules.
I'm a big advocate of the pod system, but it would take a rule change.
Agree. Pods are the only way to go when you get up to 16+ teams. I look forward to the day where 3 or 4 superconferences have semi-finals and conference championships that tie into the national playoff. The way it should be, in my opinion.
Either a rule change or a break from the NCAA. Such a break may be likely if there were four 20 team conferances.
Why Kansas? Please not Kansas.
Their academics are no better than FSU, they add no television sets, their football tradition is nonexistant, and we don't need them for basketball.
Apparently there are a ton of Jayhawk fans in Denver.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Kansas is probably the 5th largest net migratory feeder to Colorado, and I do run into some Jayhawks here. But, there are not a ton, and since CU moved to the Pac, KU is not on TV much here, and the Pac12 Newtwork comes with the standard cable package. There are also some cornhusker enthusiasts, but Denver is not a Jayhawks town, and I don't think that would change if they won 5 straight national titles.
The Denver line is what I always get from people when I question the Kansas invite. I have no idea, so I'll take your word for it.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Denver is a Broncos town. Period.
CU moved the meter a tiny bit in football 10 years ago. Any pulse there was in hoops came alive when KU came to Boulder 2 out of every 3 years, and the folks that drove to Boulder were more like starving hoops fans in the desert than they were jayhawks.
Adding KU would be a terrible mistake. They trail Indiana in any conceivable measure of attraction to the BIG.
The NCAA is dead. It's just in denial at the moment.
Not dead yet but they just caught the flu with the Miami thing. Could progress quickly.
Speaking of Gee, homeboy showed up at a student party or two Saturday night. I've heard he pumps Jager shots at these things. He seems to me like a guy who would drink stuff with umbrellas in it.
I've heard he is LDS so I doubt he drinks alcohol.
Correct, he does not drink.
He doesn't drink but if you invite him to your party he will usually show up
Buckeye till I'm dead
Wow! It is awesome that he showed up, but I would be worried about being in the same place as potential underage drinkers.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
This has been a staple of his on-campus student outreach forever. He has student "hosts" who scope out the parties and limit the number of Red Solo cups in these types of pictures. It's a well-oiled system at this point.
Good to hear. I figured there was something like that going on. The last thing we need is a headline like: GORDON GEE AT UNDERAGE BINGEFEST WHEN BUSTED BY CITY POLICE
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I've thought about this for a while. I think 18 members is what the Big Ten should shoot for. That would be 9 teams in each division so you would play 8 games in your division and 2 crossover games for a total of 10 league games. That would generate a lot of money. In basketball they could each play each other once for a total of 17 games (18 now). With that being said I think they should add the following teams. 1) Virginia 2) North Carolina 3)Duke 4)Notre Dame. If Notre Dame still doesn't join then offer Georgia Tech.
I agree that 18 members would work, and would allow for a 9-team divisional lineup. I don't know enough about basketball scheduling to know if you're right on that or not, but I think you've guessed half of the target teams correctly. UVA and UNC are definitely the first picks, but I think they're followed by Georgia Tech and either Florida State or Kansas. (Unless the miracle of all miracles happens and we do some kind of deal with Texas to crack open the Big Twelve.)
If we take Gee's comments as gospel (which I wouldn't rule out the role of "spin" here) then it looks like Texas is finally off the table. The B1G had a window of opportunity to capture it, and as much as I think it would have been a great addition to the B1G, it doesn't look like that one will ever happen. If that's the case, I think it will be difficult to bring Kansas onboard (if that's who he is alluding to by "midwest"). Kansas is making decent bank now and with the anchor steady (Texas), I don't see them jumping ship. That leaves the ACC and Notre Dame as potential targets. With up to 6 spots left to get to 20, we can rule out the following with a fair amount of certainty: Syracuse, Pitt, Wake Forest, Louisville, NC State, Clemson and Virginia Tech. The following 8 will have to make a decision on whether they want to be a part of the first superconference: Notre Dame, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, and Boston College. Two of these 8 will without question be left off the table because there is zero chance the B1G goes above 20. The most likely of these to not make the cut are two of the following five: Notre Dame, Boston College, Florida State, Miami, or Duke. If the B1G goes superconference, that means Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech agreed to jump on board -- that's 17. With three remaining slots I wouldn't be suprised by any number of combinations: I can see both Florida schools in, I've argued for Duke's value as well as Boston College's value, and I can certainly see Notre Dame finally making the plunge in the superconference era. There are way too many moving parts and possibilities to accurately determine who we end up with. But it's looking more clear that these are the schools that are left for poaching.
I'm sure President Gee is a brilliant man and is a worthy President. However, can he please just keep his mouth shut regarding athletics and football? I'm certain he won't be commenting on the jacked up ticket prices.