Concrete Blonde

By Ramzy Nasrallah on May 3, 2011 at 1:00p
91 Comments
He's a Buckeye, and he's fake - but he's not a fake Buckeye.

Don't let the pretty picture fool you: This isn't really a column about Kirk Herbstreit. 

This is a column about you, the easily-persuaded plebes who continue to fuel the false narrative that Ohio State fans are ruthlessly terrorizing Herbstreit for simply speaking truth to power.  This is about setting the record straight.

It's too easy to paint the Ohio State fan base as a cauldron of unsophisticated zealots who take to the streets with torches to go after anyone who dares to sully Buckeye football with unpopular remarks.  Falling for the fiction that Herbstreit has fallen out of favor with Buckeye fans only for traitorously speaking ill of Ohio State is absolutely lazy

Herbstreit has been castigated wholesale by his own because he repeatedly speaks out of both sides of his mouth.  Each and every time he is called out for that hypocrisy he has trashed the Ohio State fan base with the same strawman defense that you keep swilling down without any critical thought whatsoever. 

He went to Ohio State, therefore he must obviously love Ohio State; he's just saying what you don't want to hear.  Actually, what he's saying about Buckeye football is what a lot of us are saying these days.  But that's only part of the story. 

Your observations of Herbstreit are understandably and significantly limited in comparison to ours. That's not necessarily your fault, but you should be better informed before you jump on the false narrative train.  We're here to help: Let's turn back the clock a bit...

Back in 2007 when Rich Rodriguez left West Virginia to go to Michigan there was much speculation that Terrelle Pryor may commit to the Wolverines after favoring Ohio State for much of the recruiting process. 

Herbstreit took to the ESPN airwaves in interview after interview during the bowl season and cited Pryor as the "x-factor for Rodriguez's first recruiting class" and proclaimed him to be the perfect quarterback to run the new offense in Ann Arbor. 

He also called Pryor the most important in-state recruit for Joe Paterno in years.  He said that Oregon was a strong possibility to land him as well, with the Ducks and Wolverines having the schematic advantage to best suit Pryor's skills, Pennsylvania having the home field advantage and Ohio State contending simply by having recruiting him consistently and the longest.  Herbstreit singlehandedly brought the name Terrelle Pryor out of recruiting circles and into nationally-televised prominence.

All of what he said was absolutely true, by the way.  Pryor would have been perfect for Michigan, or Oregon.  While there were a lot of Buckeye fans who wished Herbie would have just STFU about this reality and stopped selling the Wolverines and Ducks to young Pryor through his television set, what he was saying was undeniable.  You do not remember any Ohio-born uprising against Herbstreit then for aiding in Pryor widening his recruitment because there was no such uprising.  We're not irrational, we're just biased.  Just like you.

Fast-forward to last week, when Herbstreit said matter-of-factly that Ohio State should quit recruiting players like Maurice Clarett and Terrelle Pryor, as if he had never spread the gospel of Pryor as a program savior just three years earlier. 

As a fan base, we were understandably frustrated, not just because it was classic Monday morning quarterbacking, not just because every other school in the country also recruited both players, not just because the idea of not recruiting players of Clarett and Pryor's abilities would be bad recruiting, but because we remember.  As an outsider, you only saw the backlash and quickly defaulted to an extremely lazy Haters Gonna Hate explanation.

Speaking of Clarett, whenever Herbstreit's strawman is called to the stand - the how dare you make me explain my loyalty to Ohio State canard - this candid photograph from the 2003 BCS title game is presented as Exhibit A by the defense.  Not even ten minutes after that picture of Michael Doss' interception return was taken, it was Clarett who was plowing into the end zone for the score. 

Do you think Herbstreit cheered?  Or was he hesitant since Clarett shouldn't have ever been recruited?  Because doing so would constitute that "truth to power" you thought he was speaking last week. 

Let this be known: Second only to writing about Tressel's giant throne of lies, I absolutely hate writing about Herbstreit.  Both of these topics suck, but the Herbstreit one is just so stupid.  I had to write about him back in January after he unapologetically dropped Ohio State three slots for winning the Sugar Bowl and figured I had checked off that topic box forever.  But then he moved to Tennessee and cited "the relentless 5-10% of the fan base" as the reason for his departure and that couldn't be ignored either. 

Then last week he gave us his brilliant Pryor/Clarett hindsight and shuttered his Twitter account while playing the martyr card once more.  And you ate it up, again.  You have to stop doing that.  Yes, he's pretty.  Yes, he's on your television.  Yes, he's also a narcissist who shines a heroic light on Ohio State's real and perceived warts because he thinks it makes him a more credible national analyst.  Every time you gobble this up, you're feeding his narcissim.  That in turn tweaks my OCD and then I have to write about this shit all over again.  Please stop it.

As much as I hate writing about Herbstreit, I'm not a blind Buckeye homer or fan apologist either.  Herbstreit is quite accurate about the radical, relentless fringe of the Buckeye Nation.  I've been writing about the Buckeyes since the Cooper era and our fringe is not at all shy about telling you exactly what they think of your lousy, dumbassed opinion.  There definitely are people who cannot differentiate between being critical and disparaging.

From nasty emails to 140-character Twitter bombs in my direction to one special guy who in 2005 identified me on campus following a game and told me how much he hated something I wrote after the Iowa game from two years earlier I can speak from experience: Herbie isn't making that up.  These people do exist.

Being criticized is no fun for anybody, whether it's empty trash talk, unwarranted jabs or legitimate, pharmaceutical-grade medicine you have to take.  But Herbstreit has three choices for dealing with that kind of criticism: He could try and learn from it, he could ignore it or he could handle it with the gravitas of a scorned pre-teen and stomp away in a huff.  Guess which two options he doesn't consider.  Guess which one option you continually applaud him for taking.

He's obviously incapable of ignoring his critics and clearly he's not learning from them because he thinks they're all personally attacking his loyalty to Ohio State.  I don't think he's disloyal to Ohio State.  (I do think that Pryor's "Fake Buckeye" tweet made for a fun meme though.)

Herbstreit has used the Haters defense twice now in the past couple of months.  That's shallow on a level recently seen from now-former USC Athletic Director Mike Garrett after the Trojans got hammered by the NCAA following the culmination of the investigation that Herbstreit's network deliberately did not cover for three years. 

Garrett said (of the NCAA findings) "there was nothing but a lot of envy, and they wish they all were Trojans." He was universally derided for being a moron.  Conversely, whenever Herbstreit takes valid criticisms of his statements and actions around Ohio State, he defends his loyalty instead of deciphering what is riling them up and Buckeye fans are then universally derided for having thin skin.  You've got it backwards.  The one with thin skin is the one with the frosted tips.

Speaking of USC, you may remember that Herbstreit was very outspoken to the point of almost being harsh about how Pete Carroll failed to police his players and should have avoided recruiting players like Reggie Bush, whose actions led to that expensive and embarrassing scandal, a vacated BCS title and a forfeited Heisman trophy.  Just kidding.  Herbstreit never said anything that stupid.  No, he saved that tortured logic for Ohio State.  Apparently it's not as easy for him to be so honest about other programs.

His AP rankings after the Sugar Bowl and petulant verbal sparring with Pryor aside, Buckeye fans probably wouldn't have any issue with Herbstreit if he had ever also said, I don't know, that he would never send his son to play in a struggling Tommy Tuberville offense.  Or if he said Urban Meyer shouldn't recruit players like [insert any two of 25 arrested here].  Those are the kind of damning statements he has reserved only for his beloved alma mater.   Sure he's critical of other teams;  he once said that Colorado was a lousy program just to get under Colorado alumnus Chris Fowler's skin on the Gameday set.  He really put himself out there that time.

Herbstreit could also use his conspicuous position to speak out about Oversigning, but instead he breathlessly fawns over SEC roster depth as if it miraculously happens on account of geography.  He has the platform to bring attention to whatever he wants.  His causes célèbres generally do not dwell on the negative.  Except for one.

In recent years, we'd probably be a little less salty if he had previously contributed any opinion of substance about the USC case instead of adulating over how good Bush looked in a uniform.  Or if he ever stopped slobbering over Carroll's program long enough to be even mildly critical of what turned out to be major violations. That's context.  That's what rubs Buckeye fans the wrong way about him.  Not just what he says, but but he continually fails to say.

Herbstreit also lacks the emotional intelligence that one would expect of a millionaire in his forties who works on national television, and this is either lost on you or you aren't paying attention.  Again, your observations of Herbstreit are understandably and significantly limited in comparison to ours

Shortly before he deleted his Twitter account he was getting in petty fights with anonymous followers (he even called one Buckeye fan a jackass) and had a timeline filled with what could best be described as poorly-written huffing and puffing.  Try and remember that this is a grown man with four children.  He then blamed his Twitter demise on, yes, us.  And you believed it.  Again.

Herbstreit is just fine with an audience, if you're the type who enjoys empty cliches about making plays in space and puffery without much substance.  He's downright lousy in an unscripted forum and he knows it.  That's why he's quit Twitter; not because of Buckeye fans.  He is best with a stage where no one can talk back. 

Whenever news of how poorly he is received by Ohio State fans reaches him, he instinctively points at his diploma, points at his father and calls it ridiculous.  Ohio State fans then point at Newton and LaMichael James and wonder why Herbstreit's spotlight consists only of fawning over them and adjusting his pants instead of being equally outspoken about their character issues.

All we're looking for is the same, hard-hitting criticism leveled by Herbie in anyone else's direction.  He may feel that he would look like an Ohio State homer if he did that, but you know what?  Everyone knows he went to Ohio State.  It's not like he hasn't repeatedly put that out there.  Treat everyone the same.  It shouldn't be that hard. 

That's how you build a reputation for being openly scarlet and gray, yet objective.  He could ask Chris Spielman how he does it so well.  Or Cris Carter.  Or Robert Smith.  They all share the same employer, yet only one is singled out for being unfairly critical.  Hell, Smith quit the Ohio State football program and has recently been critical of Tressel while casting doubts on his future at Ohio State.  Strangely, he doesn't seem to be forced into continuing to remind us that he's from Ohio and once set the freshman rushing record.

No, Herbstreit doesn't continually bag on Ohio State because he hates Ohio State.  He loves Ohio State.  In all likelihood he's overly "honest" about Ohio State solely to make himself appear to be an unbiased analyst, as he bites his tongue about other teams for fear of becoming unpopular with those fans too. Some analysts embrace their roles as trolls (cough MARK MAY cough) but Herbstreit is clearly not one of them.  He trolls for but one team: The one he knows best.

It's a relatively common human condition to want and need to be loved, so Herbstreit's behavior isn't exactly uncommon; just odd for someone of his age and stature.  It is a little sad though, that he continues to resort to doing this on national television where too many people can repeatedly observe it.  However, it's not nearly as sad as the fact that some people (cough YOU cough) have absolutely gobbled it up. 

You can follow Ramzy on Twitter

91 Comments

Comments

MaliBuckeye's picture

"Sarcastically, I'm in charge."

tBBC

+1 HS
BuckeyeSki's picture

Bravo

Banned from BlackShoeDiaries since 2008. Crime: Slander/Defamation of Character Judgement: Guilty

Brady's picture

Mali, the fact that you were first to post AND got that sweet picture up is amazing. 

Great read Ramzy!  You never disappoint.

 
 

The_Lurker's picture

You win all the Tostitos, sir. Well done.

btalbert25's picture

I have to agree.  I have never doubted that he loves Ohio State, but I do think he doesn't like who is running the program now.  I'd love hearing him rip an SEC school or USC, but he'll never do that.  Even when he does rip into Ohio State, other fans somehow think he's this crazy Ohio State homer.  That's the sad irony of it for Herbie, no opinion of Ohio State he shares.  No matter how many times he's too honest about the team and how it plays, or the crazy fans, people in the SEC will always say, there's that Ohio State homer again, would he please stop talking about Ohio State all the time. 

builderofcoalitions's picture

As usual, Ramzy, you are spot-on. It's odd how I can actually appreciate Mark May more than one of our own. The hypocrisy is definitely the most disturbing aspect of Herbie's act. He is a fake (tanned) Buckeye and there is little he could do to change that opinion at this point.

Hopefully, he'll shut up and we can all move on to more pressing matters.

Because we couldn't go for three.

Bucks's picture

You do not win, sir.

I have been at both the Refectory & next to his yard ... witness to the disgusting attacks on not just Kirk but his entire family. There is no rationale for it & no excuse/defense. You don't put kids into tears from your profanity/accusations w/o deserving a KO yourself.

Kirk Herbsreit's reasoning for fleeing from Columbus is accurate & I vouch for it entirely. I have posted in the past on this topic. All you same posters who try to embody honor & esteem, sit there and bash these scenarios as being ok. It is sickening.

Kirk Herbstreit may deserve some serious questions as to his mindset, but his family doesn't. I'll actually give him some respect in this regard. Ask yourself how many scenario's you'd go through before you snapped when you look at your kids? I don't think Kirk is correct or deserves love myself, but hate is hate. It isn't ok & you would hope that grown adults could behave themselves.

 

Past that. I've read a few posts now from you Ramzy. There is a reason I no longer contribute to sites such as JJHuddle, Bucknuts, etc. I view 11w as a last hideaway. I'm not ok with these inflammatory & reactionary posts.

 

 

yrro's picture

I don't think anyone condones  physical intimidation in person. I doubt that even the vocal 5-10% would go anywhere close to that far - you're talking about the psychotic .5% at that point.

btalbert25's picture

I don't think he condoned anyone giving Herbie a hard time or harrassing him and his family.  Infact, he acknowledged how bad the fringe of the fan base is.  I haven't read that many posts where anyone condoned that kind of behavior.  I think if anything, people were aggrivated that he shared his reasons for moving with the rest of the United States.  As an iconic program, we certainly have fans who identify success and failure in their own personal lives based on how the Buckeyes play.  This is a sad minority.  The fact is they exist, just like those who think a black QB is not a good QB, and those who have been calling for Tressel's head long before the Tat 5 stuff. 

The question is, how do you handle yourself in the face of such harrassment?  Do you take to Twitter and argue with people like a hothead, or in some cases spoiled brat, or do you just move and leave the parting shots for someone else to make.  I have heard stories about things Rick Pitino endured while coaching at UK, after the Laettner shot, and after other losses and it made me wonder how somone could stay in that environment.  I witnessed Tubby Smith getting a hard time at a high school basketball game once.  I can guarrenttee Jim Tressel is getting baraged by such fans right now as well.  Those guys all had kids who were inevitably harrassed in school by other kids much less the parents, and they handled it was class.  Ultimately, they all moved on, and we know Tressel will, maybe sooner than later.  While Herbie wasn't the coach, he probably is the most recognizable face of Ohio State to the national college football fanbase, and unfortunately the kind of crap he was dealing with comes with fame.

Bucks's picture

I think that Ramzy did indeed condone reaction by his post via dismissal of it being reality.

 

Five to ten percent is a convienient talking point. Certainly makes it easy to disregard anything else as being wrong. Ninety percent are ok it seems. I have witnessed closer to a 50% margin or people willing to get their own rocks off at the expense of Kirk & family.

As just plain adults, it isn't ok. Take a census of the posters regarding Kirk on this site alone proves that split.

 

Regardless of the situation, my family, my children are off limits. While I would personally kick the shit out of someone in this regard, it doesn't change the fact that it was smart to leave the area.

Roger's picture

Cool story bro.

Idiots attract other idiots. Herbstreit happens to be a celebrity idiot who intentionally gets under the skin of those in closest proximity, so it multiplies the effect.

btalbert25's picture

I guess I would have to say how many experiences have you had with Herbstreit and his family.  There are if not millions, at least 100's of thousands of Buckeye fans nation wide, and while there are certainly some who would intimidate or harrass the man, most of use would see him in public and shake his hand, tell him we like the job he does, or ignore him totally.  Maybe in Columbus you have more extremists, but if you had a room of 100 Buckeyes, I can't imgaine 50 of them going up to Herbie and threatening him and his family or making his kids cry, kicking his dog, spitting in his food, or tieing his wife to railroad tracks. 

Unless you are his driver or bodyguard and have been with him for an extended period of time to encounter these 1000's of examples, are you really any more qualified to comment than me?   How much have you witnessed and how many times have you seen this behavior.  If it's a couple of isolated incidents where there aren't many people around, ok, maybe 50 percent is good.  By the 5-10% came from Herbie's mouth, not this website. 

Keith's picture

"Eighty to ninety percent of Ohio State University fans are great. It's the vocal minority that makes it rough. They probably represent only 5-10% of the fan base but they are relentless."

--Kirk Herbstreit, being 'convenient'

 

 

builderofcoalitions's picture

Bucks, while I agree with you that no one deserves the treatment you describe, I'm not sure that's what Ramzy is saying here. He's saying that the man deserves the criticism he receives for his hypocrisy. No one is saying that harassing his family is okay. And how is this inflammatory or reactionary? It seems to be a well-reasoned and balanced post with evidence to back up his claims. Read it again.

Because we couldn't go for three.

BuckeyeSki's picture

+100

Banned from BlackShoeDiaries since 2008. Crime: Slander/Defamation of Character Judgement: Guilty

Bucks's picture

"No one is saying that harassing his family is okay."

Yes actually, they are.

 

There is such skepticism or even disregard in this that it makes no sense. Numerous online personailties are very ready to dismiss this as an excuse. I would suggest looking through the Upper Arlington Police history regarding Kirk & family.

As for the Refectory, the entire evening was ruined due to a unruly party at the bar & Kirk/fam celebrating a anniversary. Front lawn lit on fire, inability to even go to the park with his kids w/o threats.

 

It is inflammatory & reactionary b/c the reality is dismissed as an excuse. There is nothing balanced with this post. Kirk left because he was tired of and even fearful of his family being attacked. Long list of backup on this. Unfortunately, there is a large portion of the fan-base that are absolute morons.  Not a minority.

btalbert25's picture

I don't doubt that a large percentage of the fan base are morons, but I still haven't seen where people just disregard the harrassment as an excuse as you say.  Look, the man has a right to live as peacefully as he can and to sheild his family from all the BS he likely has received.  No one has disputed that.  Where people had a problem is when he took a jab at the fan base on his way out and basically said to the world, I'm moving because Ohio State fans a crazy.  I have zero doubt in my mind that some idiots have made life hell for him, but I can't imagine that 50 percent of the fans are lighting bags of dogshit on his porch, or if he walks down the street half the people on the street are going to yell Fuck you to the dude. 

I totally respect the guy wanting to make sure his kids don't have to listen to BS from other kids at school, and that he and his wife aren't embarrassed when they go out.  Vandalism is never ok in my book.  None of this shocks me at all.  I just don't understand why he always has to have the last word and it's usually a backhanded compliment or jab at his school and it's fans. 

NW Buckeye's picture

I do doubt that a large percentage of fans are morons.  However, I don't doubt that a large percentage of bloggers/posters on any sports site are morons.  For the most part, fans do not blog about their teams.  How many OSU fans do you suppose there are in Ohio? - in the Country?  Gotta be a number in the millions.  Yet, only a very few blog on this site or any other site.  Just look at the comments sections on here or any other Buckeye site.  You can easily count the number of actual commenters as less than a thousand on any site and many of those individuals post on multiple sites.  Now, maybe there are a lot of negative nellies posting, but that is the nature of the people who actually comment.  The vast majority of the ones who don't comment are most probably pretty normal people and would never stoop to the levels of the negative commenters.  In fact, many of the blogs have been so infiltrated with these negative types that the rational fans avoid posting all together.  I, for one, have basically given up posting on the Dispatch site because of a hand full of morons who frequent the site and post their rubbish.  I suspect there are other rational fans who do the same thing.  The only thing I do on the Dispatch site is read the articles.  If I have a comment on an article I email it directly to the author. 

The problem is, as the old adage states, "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch!"  But, given that, every fan base has been tainted by the negative bloggers that post their crap. 

I view 11W as one of the last "safe" sites to actually engage in blogging conversations.  There is an occasional extreme comment, but there seem to be a lot of level headed people here. 

Roger's picture

I'm all for harassing Herbstreit, so long as it's within the bounds that he INTENTIONALLY harasses Buckeye fans (i.e. call him out on twitter, poke fun, etc). I don't think you'll find any rational people that deem it okay to harass his family.

Bottom line is this though: Right or wrong, Herbstreit has made a living off of antagonizing his local fanbase, now he has to take the medicine with the millions. You can't get something for nothing, and the Herbstreits and Hooleys of the world are playing a zero sum game.

Pam's picture

Could you pleaes provide that long list of backup? 

original buckeye's picture

No, he can't.  Because he doesn't have it.  He's conveniently ducking the question.

Pam's picture

While I don't live in Cols., I do read the Dispatch every day.  Why have I not read about Heribie's lawn set on fire or a disturbance at a local restaurant?  Certainly that would be big news in Cols. right?

Brady's picture

Could not have said it better myself... so I won't try.  +1000

 
 

original buckeye's picture

Please elaborate on the events that you refer to at the Refrectory and next to his yard.  I haven't heard anything like that, and they seem like pretty blatant attacks against Buckeye fans without some support to back them up.

Ethan's picture

I don't think the point was ever to say that Herbstreit and his family deserve the ridiculous crap that a select few (which is what it is) Buckeye fans have given them. At no point did Ramzy come close to even insinuating as much.

All he said was that Herbstreit was/is harsh PRIMARILY to Ohio State, which isn't false at all. 

NW Buckeye's picture

Interesting that you take this post as inflammatory and reactionary.  I viewed it as a matter of fact article that summarizes what many feel about Kirk.  No where in it does it call for any fan to act like a jackass in their own treatement of KH.  I actually thought Ramzy did a good job of detailing fans' frustration with Kirk while still holding onto the fact that Kirk does care deeply for OSU.  - See more in my post below. 

 

Ramzy Nasrallah's picture

I believe it's safe to assume all people abhor the personal attacks you're describing, up until the point that they actually commit them or say that they condone them, at which point they have taken an outlier position.  The baseline for all people is that they believe it's bad.

So no, I don't need to preach to people that the events you're describing are disgusting, because it's assumed.  Somehow you read this as the opposite, that I'm promoting the harrassment of the Herbstreits.  If you need confirmation that I don't think this way, here you go: Anyone who has ever approached Herbie, Allison and especially his kids to be snide about Herbie's media work is a piece of shit.  There. 

If there's anything that I actually wrote that you take exception with, let's bat it around.  Otherwise, I'm done discussing what I didn't write.  I thought Osama was a piece of shit too.  Just wanted to make sure that was clear, since I didn't explicitly say so.

original buckeye's picture

Well said.  Bucks is simply deflecting (like Herbie) because neither of them has a legitimate response to the facts set forth in your article.  Great work, by the way.

German Buckeye's picture

+ Eleventy one million

JakeBuckeye's picture

Ramzy nor anyone on here have ever condoned the actions of harassment towards Herbie and especially towards his family. However, I do condone the criticism and questioning of Herbie done in a way like Ramzy has done in this article.

Pam's picture

ramzy,

Nail meet head.

Your talents should be taken to a much broader audience.  Seriously, you manage in EVERY thread to convey exactly how I feel but could never put into words as succinctly and as dead on as you do.  Your writing is outstanding and as good or better than those I read in SI or the NYT's. 

 

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Concur

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

Orlando Buckeye's picture

I'm don't really like Herbie, but I don't think that is a requirement for fandom.  

RBuck's picture

Best article of the year so far...Ramzy hit it right on the head.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

nickma71's picture

He is trying to be on the cutting edge, but in fact simply looks like a fool. Or a traitor. Instead of doing what is right, he pours fuel on the ESPN created controversies for ratings. Dropping OSU in final ranking for beating a really good Arkansas team is proof. His standard that Wisconsin beat them so they are ahead is invalid, by his own standards. Sparty should be ahead of Wisconsin. I watched that game.

btalbert25's picture

So, the question is, can anyone link this to Herbie or email him a copy. 

RBuck's picture

Bucks wrote: "All you same posters who try to embody honor & esteem, sit there and bash these scenarios as being ok. It is sickening."

Well, I for one, can't recall any poster on this site ever agree that it's OK to harass Herstreit and/or his family personally or in public. If the man is going to bash the Buckeyes on his Twitter, then he's open game on that forum for only his topic.

 

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

Pam's picture

I just noticed something weird.  On Fox Sports Ohio every a link to every article by Bruce Hooley relating to Tressel or tOSU says "page not found"  Das boot?

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/pages/bruce_hooley_index

NC_Buckeye's picture

Verified.

Wow, I hope you're right. That guy is a real idiot. If anyone deserves to be shit-canned, it's him. Think about it. How marketable is an Ohio State sports commentator who spews nothing but bile and hate at tOSU and it's fanbase?

btalbert25's picture

A few million if he works for the worldwide leader

Pam's picture

Clearly not much.  The thing is, he isn't even't good at spewing.  His writing is college newspaper at best.  Every article is the same regurgitated shit.

devidee33's picture

Ramzy once again crushing it.  This perfectly sums up how feel about the whole Herbie situation.

Bucksfan's picture

Very well done, Ramzy.

NW Buckeye's picture

Ramzy,   You seem to have hit the nail on the head.  The only thing I would add is that Kirk seems to act like an overbearing parent who is overly critical of their own children while praising their children's friends.  Some people think that they have license to critisize anything (anyone) that is close and dear to them and do not take that approach with anything (anyone) that is not directly related to them.  Kirk exhibits some of this behavior.  Your article points that out by citing his critisisms of OSU and lack of similar comments about other programs that have fallen upon hard times due to their own actions. 

For what it is worth, I still can watch Kirk and identify with him because he is a Buckeye.  And, maybe I give him a little slack for acting like the critical being I described above.  His negative comments about OSU do not bother me nearly as much as his lack of negative comments about other programs that have bigger problems than OSU.  That said, there is nothing he has said or done that merits the treatment his family has been subject to as described by Bucks above.   

741's picture

I can't handle all of this truth... I no longer know who to blindly follow.

jfunk's picture

When you have a fan base as large as Ohio State's the very vocal minority isn't always so minor.... For instance, at the Texas game 99% of the Buckeye fans I saw were nothing but respectful to the visiting fans. But when you have roughly 200,000 people in and around the Shoe that 1% still comes out to be 2,000 @$$holes walking around. And unfortunately you always here about the negative stories, not the stories of all the Ohio State fans I saw after the game congratulating Texas fans on a good game. Now translate the above example to the entire popluation of the greater Columbus area.

 

Again, not excusing the the behavior in the slightest. The "fans" harassing Herbie belong in the same assylum as the idiot from Alabama who poisoned the trees.

Scotch: It may be too early to drink it, yes; but people it is never to early to think about it.

NC_Buckeye's picture

Ramzy,

I don't know if you still write for Bucknuts. (I stopped reading it when they started restricting everything to members only.) But I'm very happy to see your stuff on 11W now.

I much rather read your analysis than anything written by that S-E-C homer, Matt Hinton. Keep up the good work.

Ramzy Nasrallah's picture

I still do, on occasion, but I'm full-time at 11W.  Tuesday afternoons.  /Moody Blues'd

Nappy's picture

Great article.  Ive never spent too much time on Bucknuts as this is my buckeye blog of choice but it's nice to add another great writer to the mix.  

And I wish I could work full time on Tuesday afternoons. 

Fan of bacon since 1981

btalbert25's picture

There is no doubt in my mind that most fans are normal people, but normal people can have moronic views when it comes to sports, politics, religion, and other aspects of life.  When I said earlier that most fans are morons, I'm actually kind of lumping myself in that category.   We all have irrational attachments or even dislike for certain players, plays, coaches etc.  I'm sure peopel think I'm an idiot for constantly defending Tressel and not thinking Tat Gate, compared to other stuff going on in college football is a big deal.  I always really liked Checkwa and we know how valued that opinion was.  I'm a Reds fan and for some reason every year I thought this is going to be Edwin Encarnacion's year, it never came. 

To say most fans are morons is does not imply that most fans are willing to stoop to harrassing a guys family, vandalizing his house, and cussing him out.  That is a special breed with a category all their own.  Fans are always going to have differing opinions about which direction their program should go, much like people can differ on the state of the country and which direction we should be looking politically.  We can all think someones idea is idiotic or doesn't make sense, as long as we are respectful when we discuss it.  That's what makes this site a notch above the rest.  Some of us may say something way off base that makes no sense, some of use may be in agreement on certain things, but mostly we refrain from name calling and resorting to tactics only reserved for that special breed that comments at the Dispatch.  This site has had a great ability to draw a lot of eyeballs, yet keep things respectful.  It's a great place for a moron like me to come chat!

NW Buckeye's picture

I do not consider you a moron.  Your views are well thought out, and your posts seem void of any extreme hate.  Everyone is entitled to their views and opinions.  The morons are the ones with vicious attacks on either side of an issue.  As per my previous post I view you as one of the many rational bloggers on here - again, a reason I like this site. 

btalbert25's picture

I definitely didn't think you were singling anyone out.  Just my view on fans in general.  We all have weird hangups about certain players or coaches, or we view teams differently is all. 

Colin's picture

How you doing little Herby? Bad. Why do you feel bad? Because everything is falling apart and I can't do anything about it. It's not your fault. I know it's not my fault but whose fault is it if it's not my fault. It's their fault. That's right, it's their fault. It's their fault. It's their fault! YOU HAVE FAILED AND YOU WILL PAY.

GoBucks713's picture

I for one feel bad for Herbie. He's not a bad guy, and just because he speaks his mind, and some idiot fans don't agree with it, he gets harrassed and fears for the safety of his family. I'm all for speaking your mind, but there are boundaries that you should never cross. It's a sad day in Columbus when we drive one of our own out of the only home that his children have known. IMHO these idiots that crossed that boundary are worse than the man that poisoned those Trees.

It also makes me wonder, how many of those fans have committed violent crimes and should be sent to Meatchicken.

-The Aristocrats!

nickma71's picture

Is he speaking his mind when he ranked Wisconsin above Michigan State after Michigan State bean them? Or is he just stiring the pot to get people to notice him?

GoBucks713's picture

I never said i agree with anything he said. I don't agree with anything he said. But regardless of what he said, he shouldn't have to fear for his and his family's safety just because we don't agree with what he said. I guess it all comes down to people going overboard with their fanaticsm. You don't have to like what anyone says, but when you start invading someone's personal space because of it, then there is an issue.

-The Aristocrats!

German Buckeye's picture

So, I'm still waiting to see the proof of the documented cases of harassment of his family, property, etc that have been raised in this thread....

SouthPlainfieldNut's picture

"Herbstreit could also use his conspicuous position to speak out about Oversigning, but instead he breathlessly fawns over SEC roster depth as if it miraculously happens on account of geography"

This is probably my favorite part.

cronimi's picture

This article needs to be republished by Dr. Saturday, EDSBS, and every other CFB blog out there. I haven't read anything that so accurately relates the 'issues' much of the OSU fanbase has with Herbie.  Maybe if non-OSU fans read this piece and thought about it, they too would understand -- maybe.  (Who am I kidding...)

tampa buckeye's picture

I think Kirk doesn't care for tressel's offense just like the rest of us "real" buckeye fans.  It's a shame everyone is being such a lil bitch about all this.  Who cares if he isn't a homer on espn.  The guy is doing his job.  I hate to say it but until we win another title vs the SEC which should be this year (if it wasn't for the first 5 game thingy)  he will be right about the SEC.  I pray we can some how some way win the first five because then its ON!

BuckeyeChief's picture

I don't condone attacking him nor his family.

Tell me this though: Why is it cool for him to go on Colin Cowherd and dog the fuck out of all Buckeye fans and our "Cinnabon loving wives", calling the majority of them fat with cankles? I don't live in the CO anymore, my wife is from NY, but that was FUCKING wrong.

I guess it's cool to talk shit about people on a national forum, but expect no fallout, right? I guess it's cool to get into pissing contests with a guy who is 22 and immature, but your stupidity makes him look better to us.

Believe you me, I have some thick ass skin. I go through a daily basis of shit talking amongst fellow Sailors, it's part of the job and I love it, but I am not calling out wives/ teenagers. It's stupid.

His family didn't deserve it, 100% agreed, but he should shut his mouth. Don't dog out a fanbase and expect to rise above it. Speils can OBJECTIVELY call out poor performance, like he did in the Ohio game a few years ago, without being a homer or a hater.

On another note, I would really like a 4 way last man standing steel cage death match between myself, mary may, herbie and cowturd. I would really like to punch all three in the face, but there is a difference between talking and doing.

 

"Damn I miss El Guapo"

BuckeyeSki's picture

ELIMINATION CHAMBAHHHHHHHH!!!!

Banned from BlackShoeDiaries since 2008. Crime: Slander/Defamation of Character Judgement: Guilty

Hoody Wayes's picture

In truth, Herbstreit is hurt and Pryor is - at times - an over-confident, young man. I'm betting Pryor will learn to be temperate and control his passions. He's bright and displays great leadership, on the field.

Herbstreit is forgetting one of the central axioms in "show business" (sport is among this pantheon): "wear a thick skin." If he doesn't add it to his wardrobe, he'll go nuts and his career will be flushed.

Ultimately, I root for the Bucks - past and present. Just as I was proud to be in Ohio Stadium with the living members of the 1942 National Champs, my heart aches for Art Schlichter - a guy I witnessed destroy Northwestern 70-6, in the Shoe, back in 1981. 

Sometimes they thrill us. Sometimes they frustrate us. But, they're Buckeyes and I'll always appreciate them for that and wish them the best - including Kirk Herbstreit.

Go Bucks.

Hoody Wayes's picture

My compliments to Ramzy, for trying to convey the wholeness of the matter.

theDuke's picture

Nope.  Not buying it.  He does not get the pass in my household. A tie against Michigan one year barely qualifies you for game day commentary.  Turdstreit has gotten in a bit too close with the likes of Mark May and Brent "mushmouth" Musberger.  Don't get me started on those rats.  C'mon Ramzy!!! Citing that picture from the Fiesta bowl is feeble at best.  Everyone in the country was jumping up and down, giddy as 12 year olds on recess because that was one of the few "Matchups" for the championship that have left an indelible mark on college football, the game we all know and love, very well, amen.  That aside, he's not the homer he could be or should be- insert Chris Spielman here-  When is the last big game he picked us to win as an upset?  Hell, he may have even had Jacory Harris and the U beating us last year...Didn't he pick Arkansas?  I can't remember, but its moot anyways. Nope, herbs rode the tide of bad losses the last few years as far as he could, he loved it! as the guy who kinda has ties to the losers.  And he unabashedly poured it on in that time period, a little salt in the wounds of his "family." Turds is not a buckeye in the truest sense of the word. Nope.  He's not even human anymore.  He's turned into a robot that ruthlessly gnaws through his alma matter in the name of an other entire conference and network.  He is the proverbial traitor that shed his colors when things started turning south.  And south he went too.  Right down to SEC country where he always had wished he could have been.  Well he got his wish, and Columbus and Buckeye nation is better for it.  As for the crazies, you don't have to worry about them because you'll always know which side they're on-Chris Spielman- for better or worse.   

Werd.  

theDuke

Bucks's picture

Regardless of the divergence of topic, I still stand by what I wrote. It is absolutely valid in my mind to remove my family from an area after public spectacle & personal intrusions, repeatedly. My issue with this article (and many others like it) is the dismissive attitude towards something that is #1 in any person(s) life. Safety.

Regardless of anything Kirk has ever said, imposing misery on his personal life, chastising his wife @ Kingsdale, screaming profanities with his children in tow, vandalizing property are completely unacceptable in every regard.

I don't agree with his viewpoint, I don't like what he has said. I'll be damned if I'm going to be a ridiculous moron & lose sight of public vs private. Based off what he has gone through in the private regard, he had every right to leave. Doesn't change my disagreement with his purported belief of tOSU. I can actually look past that though. So what? A public figure has a different viewpoint. Who the hell cares?

The antagonist of love is not hate, it is indifference. I could care less what Herbie says. I do care and do take exception to people dismissing his reasoning as a lie. Some of the venerable people here know some of the backlash Kirk's family has faced. Two inparticular know in great detail.

 

It saddens me that these people aren't blatantly defending this position. Dislike, disagree as much as you want. Personal life is seperate & there is no damn reason for lowering people to scum of the earth.

 

Jason, any thoughts?

 

 

JakeBuckeye's picture

Quite honestly, I don't buy a lot of what you say. Do I believe "restless" Buckeye fans bugged Kirk? Yes, I do. But maybe Kirk isn't made for the sports world's limelight, because that comes with the territory. I don't feel particularly bad for him, as there are other things/people to feel bad for. His sports opinions aside, he acts like your typical douche. Just look at his twitter account and what a joke it was. Now this is no reason for supposed Buckeye fans to do what they supposedly did, I do not condone it, but it comes with the territory. Just look at the paparazzi. They are as restless as anybody comes. Do you feel bad for those celebrities? I don't. It comes with being a celebrity. You and Kirk are insane if you don't think he is going to encounter some angry Tennessee fans along the way.

Again, I don't believe everything you say. Herbie's lawn being lit on fire? I have a feeling that would be publicized more than one random dude on a blog talking about it. Sounds like a TAAAALLLL tale.

And of course Herbie has every right to leave, this is America after all, and nobody on here is trying to take that right away from him.

AJ's picture

it doesnt come with the territory...he wasnt being harrassed untill after he made the comments...otherwise he would have left long ago, lets not make excuses for our own fanbase just because its our fanbase...let me ask you are you mad at what herbie said or how it was said?

"Without winners, there wouldn't even be civilization." -----------Woody Hayes

JakeBuckeye's picture

Herbie has been disliked by many Buckeye fans for years, so don't act like this is recent.

AJ's picture

so you are mad because what herbie said might be right?

"Without winners, there wouldn't even be civilization." -----------Woody Hayes

JakeBuckeye's picture

Huh? Having a pissing contest with a person about 20 years younger than you is right? Taking continual shots at something you "love" is right? Taking a "shot" at us would be fine, but I'll just quote Ramzy now because he said it perfectly.

"Speaking of USC, you may remember that Herbstreit was very outspoken to the point of almost being harsh about how Pete Carroll failed to police his players and should have avoided recruiting players like Reggie Bush, whose actions led to that expensive and embarrassing scandal, a vacated BCS title and a forfeited Heisman trophy.  Just kidding.  Herbstreit never said anything that stupid.  No, he saved that tortured logic for Ohio State.  Apparently it's not as easy for him to be so honest about other programs."

Spielman wasn't nice or sugar coating. Why didn't he recieve heat? Its not a matter of right or wrong with Herbie's opinions or statements.

His Clarett/Pryor comment was right? If he was, Herbie was showing hundreds of schools where they went wrong, because hundreds of schools recruited those two players.

Need I say more than what Ramzy put into beautiful words already, really?

Bucks's picture

Wow, again.

 

Can any person here focus their minds into a single portion? Is it really that hard?

 

I said it wasn't ok to dismiss the claim that his family was being basically tortured. Every single dumbass after talks about what Kirk has said.

 

Public VS Private. No damn excuse. Grow the fuck up.

 

JakeBuckeye's picture

I was ASKED if I was mad that what Herbie said may be right. I ANSWERED.

btalbert25's picture

Bucks, have you read any of the comments in this thread?  Everyone says they don't condone personal attacks or blame him for moving.  No one has dismissed that here.  Ramzy didn't dismiss that in the article.  In fact, he even has a comment in the thread that says the people are pieces of shit to appease you.  So, I'm not sure what your beef is here?   I think the overwhelming majority of people don't like what he says on TV, but they don't wish him harm or pain. 

Bucks's picture

Every person is entitled to their opinion. Kinda the point, I guess.

People seem to take issue here with grass burning as the hedgepoint of fallacy vs legitimacy. In totality goofy on its own. As I have already said, review the Upper Arlington Police Dept reports to verify. Same as Franklin County, just have to go in person instead of sitting on your ass. Not sure if lawn burning is the catalyst for change of opinion, but it seems to be? What about the grocery store? What about being at The Refectory? What about walking down the street? How about bringing your wife & kids to the park outside of Tremont Library for the weekly dog run, to be assaulted basicallly by morons? Is that all ok? He "deserves" it because he disagrees with a sentiment?

Again, since it seems numerous people are incapable of seperation, devoting an entire response to Kirk is all fine & dandy. He still had every right to remove his family from the abuse they incurred. Jason knows himself as does one other person. Kirk's family has been victim to this crapshoot.

Who cares what a person says? Go ahead and defend attacking someone personally, would love to understand the twisted reasoning.

And again, Jason ... I'd love to know your thoughts on this. You aren't as privy to information as I but you know damn well what I'm talking about. I'd appreciate some reflection from you.

JakeBuckeye's picture

OH MY GOD, you're impossible to talk to because your brain won't process the fact that none of us condone or think harassing somebody and their family is okay or that they "deserve it." Seriosuly guy, get that through your head and come back and talk. I mean, God dammit, nobody here is defending attacking someone personally. Stop making shit up to fit your own argument. Pooowwwahhh Kirky Herbstreit had to move from one million dollar home to the next. I apologize for my concern being so short if there is any concern at all. His move didn't seem too urgent either. Maybe I've been told incorrectly but this move has been long planned, no? It seems if I truly felt that my loved ones were unsafe I'd get out of there instantly. Hasn't his home been on sale for around three years or so? His playing of the victim card is also cheapened by the second time he played the victim card when deleting his twitter account. Have you been on Twitter? Boy, the hate Kirk recieved pales in comparison to some other prominent figures in sports that have Twitter accounts.

Bucks's picture

I don't even know where to begin with this ignorance...

A) Don't try to epitomize "everyone." You make yourself look silly. There are numerous people on this site that embody everything you pretend they don't.

 

B)  Yes, actually a few of you have & are defending personal attacks. I can only assume that at root, there are some mental issues.

 

C) Again, moving loved ones away from peril is ok. His house was on the market for 4 years actually, not 3. He also hired a private security firm after the 2nd instance at home. So get your facts straight.

 

 

And again, b/c there must be some monumental statue of stupidity ... ATTACKING A MAN OR WOMAN PERSONALLY IS NOT OK. VICTIMIZING THEIR FAMILY IS NOT OK.

 

Debate your dumbass nuances all you want. It isn't ok. I recognize this type of writing. Same horeshit from a few other sites. I'm sorry 11W is going this way, but seems assured. I withdraw my future donations to this site. Jason/Chris, wrong move.

JakeBuckeye's picture

"A) Don't try to epitomize "everyone." You make yourself look silly. There are numerous people on this site that embody everything you pretend they don't."

I don't know what anybody on here "embodies." I don't know anybody here personally, and I don't pretend to. You don't (most of them) either so you make yourself look silly making judgments of what they "embody" based off of looking at a computer screen.

"C) Again, moving loved ones away from peril is ok. His house was on the market for 4 years actually, not 3. He also hired a private security firm after the 2nd instance at home. So get your facts straight."

I think you need to get your facts straight. Nobody here, especially Ramzy, has condoned anything that has happened to Herbie and his family. Seriously. Find me a quote.

And again, b/c there must be some monumental statue of stupidity ... ATTACKING A MAN OR WOMAN PERSONALLY IS NOT OK. VICTIMIZING THEIR FAMILY IS NOT OK.

Debate your dumbass nuances all you want. It isn't ok. I recognize this type of writing. Same horeshit from a few other sites. I'm sorry 11W is going this way, but seems assured. I withdraw my future donations to this site. Jason/Chris, wrong move.

NOBODY ON HERE, ESPECIALLY RAMZY, HAS SAID THAT IT IS! Find a quote. Likewise, I can find you a quote directly from Ramzy:

"If you need confirmation that I don't think this way, here you go: Anyone who has ever approached Herbie, Allison and especially his kids to be snide about Herbie's media work is a piece of shit.  There."

 

....

"B)  Yes, actually a few of you have & are defending personal attacks. I can only assume that at root, there are some mental issues."

I'm done. I can only hope that you are trolling.

original buckeye's picture

No one on here has said it's ok.  Perhaps your reading comprehension skills need a bit of work.  What the article is about is Herbie's clownish/ridiculous/inconsistent/indefensible treatment of OSU in the national media.  You really should try to keep up because you are simply setting up strawman arguments in an attempt to ignore the substance of the article.

Jdadams01's picture

Bucks, what you don't seem to get is that Herby moving isn't the issue. I personally could care less that he moved. A ton of Buckeye fans live outside of Ohio. Including me. The problem is that he had to go an use it as yet another excuse to bash Buckeye Nation. Him moving isn't why people don't like him. Hell, he could move to China, whatever. It's what he says and how he acts that causes the hate. Get over the whole "he moved because he didn't feel safe, so you all are dicks for bashing him" because that's not even the issue. His asshole personality/logic and his mouth are why people don't like him.

btalbert25's picture

Maybe Bucks=Herbie.  Seems to defend his views the same way, by repeating the same point over and over despite what evidence to the contrary indicates.  He's resorted to name calling and temper tantrums as well. 

RBuck's picture

Bucks=Herbie? Good point, but I'm leaning more toward celebrity stalker.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

NW Buckeye's picture

The only thing worse than confronting/attacking Herbie and/or his family in a public setting is someone actually witnessing it and doing nothing about it.  I may or may not like what he has said about OSU in his professional life, but either way I do recognize and accept him as part of the Buckeye family.  Any fool who would perpetrate violent confrontation needs to be put in their place immediately and anyone who would witness it and do nothing in that instance is just as guilty as the perp.  So what are you Bucks?  Did you put the perp in his place at the Refectory?  Or do you just come on here and trash all Buckeye fans who may disagree with what he says? 

btalbert25's picture

Great point, well said.

LeeNorthbrook's picture

Let me bottom line this thing...

 

Herbie is a prick and so are you if you harrass him or his family.

doodah_man's picture

There seems to be a bit of schadenfreude here in that Herbie is suffering from the "trash" talk that ESPN has fostered over the years. 

Jim "DooDah" Day
It is hard to play dirty against a man who picks you up.

SSBuckeye's picture

Ramzy, my old cyber friend.  Well done!  You have long been a voice of reason on all things Buckeye, but this has to rank near the top of your work to date.  I have long defended KH, but events of the past few years have made that difficult to do.  It really is a shame that there are low-life buffoons who do stupid and sinister things to public figures like Kirk, but those stupid acts do not diminish the point of your article.  It's not too late for our friend Kirk to see the light, but I'm not holding my breath.

Again, well done.  Keep on keepin' on!

SSBuckeye

P.S.  Love this new blog.  I plan to come back regularly.

Pam's picture

"Today on WKNR 850 (Cleveland), LeCharles Bentley was talking about the Tressel situation and called out former players who have been openly critical of Tressel.  I got a kick out of it, because LeCharles got a little worked up and said the following (paraphrasing):

"I want to address something - I want to be careful about the way I say this, but I've heard Herbie, Eddie and Robert all come out and make comments about this situation - comments that have been critical of Coach Tress.  I would say to them - watch yourself.  You don't know the man and you didn't play for him - you don't know him like those of us who have played for him know him.  He would do anything for his players and likewise we would do anything for him.

Before they talk about Coach Tressel and the program under Coach Tressel, I would advise them to consider this - Tressel's players are loyal to him.  And maybe if those guys were as loyal to Coach Cooper on the field as we are to Tress, they wouldn't have gotten him fired."

Freaking TOASTY burn!  Again, that was paraphrased, but the bolded line is near an exact quote and it made me laugh.  Not 10 minutes later, LeCharles called out one of the other hosts (Aaron Goldhammer), who, if you listen to KNR you know he hates the Buckeyes and the fans he refers to as "Buckeye honks".  At any rate, LeCharles said he's doing a disservice to the listeners by spewing his biased, non-objective views about Tressel & Ohio State.  It was pretty funny, as there were a few seconds there when I thought LeCharles was going to rip Goldhammer's head off.

At any rate, LeCharles aint playin."

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=145&f=3154&t=7488342

BuckeyeChief's picture

Bravo to LeCharles; one thing i'd like to say is that it must be awesome to live in a glass house, throw stones and face no repurcussions. Not speaking about Herbie on this one but there was a lot of shit going on in Columbus when JHC was running the show. Robert Smith? Yeah he should talk. Maybe someone should ask why he really threw Cooper under the bus. Terry Glenn: anyone know what he was doing when he was there? I can tell you but i'd rather not.

You ever heard of the Young Scholars Program? Well I was a part of that and I got to meet alot of the football and basketball players during the summers I spent there, and got a bunch of stories from them.

"Judge not..."

 

"Damn I miss El Guapo"