Paradise Lost

By Ramzy Nasrallah on March 15, 2011 at 1:00p
84 Comments

One week ago tonight the façade of Jim Tressel as the virtuous, detail-oriented rule-following ambassador of doing the right thing was splintered by the news that he sat on information that could have ruled several star players ineligible ahead of the 2010 season.  It’s been a difficult seven days that won’t get any easier until some sort of resolution is reached by the NCAA, and even then the prospect of comfortably stomaching this crisis that was entirely preventable – by the one guy at Ohio State you would want to prevent it – should still be vexing.

Cheating, albeit with an asterisk, is cheating.Say it ain't so, Jim.

You’ve had a week to let it fully marinate that Tressel deliberately cheated and obscured the truth about what he knew – with multiple opportunities to disclose his knowledge – before getting caught.  Whether you buy into the unsubstantiated tales of Feds telling him to keep quiet while they went after bigger fish in their investigation or if you truly believe his consideration for NCAA rules was secondary to the gravity of a Federal drug trafficking investigation ultimately doesn’t matter.  Cheating, albeit with an asterisk, is cheating.  No matter how silly you think the rule against players selling their own stuff is, covering it up is a foul by any classification.

You would have thought that these past seven days which culminated with a second-consecutive Big Ten tournament title and the overall top seed in the NCAA tournament would have been austerely superb.  Unfortunately that was indirectly tainted by this unresolved scandal; Gene Smith’s coincidental visibility as the head of the NCAA selection committee only elevated the shame, and Kirk Herbstreit’s disgraceful exit from Central Ohio helped make last week one of the worst in memory for Buckeye fans despite the confetti in Indianapolis.

It’s a lesson from history as well as from any entry-level criminal justice class: The punishment for the crime is potentially minor compared to the retribution for covering it up.  It’s a lesson from Watergate that shouldn’t have been lost on a head coach who was quarterbacking a college football team while Richard Nixon’s onion was being very publicly peeled.

It’s also a lesson you learn as a child when you lie about a relatively minor offense. Had Tressel acted immediately upon reading the email he received about the Tat Five back in April, certainly there would have been fallout.  Those repercussions would have felt like love tap by comparison to what covering them up has already and will continue to spawn.  Tressel metaphorically told the cop who pulled him over that he ‘just wasn’t thinking about the speed limit.’  That’s the best way to guarantee you’re getting a ticket outside of being under the influence.

Unfortunately it’s been a magnificent week for what Shakespeare used to refer to as the sneering shit-talkin’ hater brigade (I didn’t say which Shakespeare) and you’ve been forced to take a position that could only be made more uncomfortable if you were in a Prius at a biker rally.  You’re not allowed to tell these people that Tressel does things the right way anymore, because despite all of the good that he has and will still do, this is one of those blemishes that you can’t ever cover up.

Over the course of one terrible week, you’ve had to hear repeatedly about how crooked and smarmy Tressel is while being told how lousy your fan base is to have driven Herbie out of Ohio.  Your coach is a liar and Ohio State fans suck on a level that actually produced a reluctant home state exodus.  It’s not an unprecedented earthquake of immeasurable catastrophic tragedy, but it still kind of sucks.

As a public service you should consider helping these unhelpful, hating assbags understand that while Tressel is certainly guilty by his own admission, Herbstreit’s public swipe at Ohioans on his way out of state was simply one last cheap shot at Buckeye fans who had the audacity to take exception to his seemingly unending hypocrisy, not be taken by his celebrity or mindlessly slurp up his empty Mad Libs analysis when it came to Ohio State football.

Herbstreit blamed the “vocal minority” of Buckeye fans for driving him out of Ohio while reiterating the hyperbolic claim that he is the world’s most ardent lover of Ohio State (that’s what “no one loves Ohio State more than me” means, in case you’re having trouble believing he said that).  He cited five to 10 percent of Buckeye fans at fault for pushing him to relocate.

Let’s pretend he was talking about just the Buckeye fans of Columbus, which is a town of about 788,000 per the most recent census.  Now let’s pretend only half of Columbus’ population are Ohio State fans, and we’ll use Herbie’s low percentage figure for the haters who drove him out of town.  You, the overzealous 20,000 Buckeye fans he was talking about – you drove Herbstreit out of his home.  Shame on you, vocal minority.

SHAME ON YOU, BUCKEYE FANLooking at you, five to 10 percent.

Shame on the one out of 20 Buckeye fans who hurt Herbstreit’s feelings so badly that he had to pack up and move to Tennessee.  You have to consider the state of Herbie’s emotional intelligence or lack thereof; this is a 41-year old millionaire whose Twitter feed reads like it’s written by a star-struck teenager.  Regardless of the criticism from his home base, criticism and scrutiny are an integral element of celebrity.  It comes with money and fame; it’s part of the lucrative package that comes with having your opinion aired on television, radio and print.

He has taken so many unwarranted swipes – not critiques or criticisms; swipes – at Ohio State that it became increasingly difficult to tolerate him on the national stage; his last swipe on his way out of town illustrates how poorly Herbstreit handles critics, whether their criticism is valid or not.  For someone whose self-proclaimed love of Ohio State is greater than anyone else’s, it screams of thin skin and a meager ego incapable of handling being challenged.

It’s a lesson you learn as a child when you’re incapable for accepting blame or apologizing for things that you’ve said. Had Herbstreit apologized after saying he would ‘never send his son to play for Jim Tressel’ on ESPN in the midst of a frustrating three-game losing streak, certainly Buckeye fans would have understood (October 2004 for frustrating for all of us). 

Had he apologized for stupidly dropping the Buckeyes three spots in his final AP ballot after Ohio State beat Arkansas, certainly he would have been forgiven.  Had he uttered one peep in defense of his most beloved university while his network committed full-blown character assassination on virtually every element of his football program for the entire second half of the 2004 Alamo Bowl, or had he simply apologized for staying quiet, he wouldn’t be widely viewed as a traitor or a sellout.

Herbstreit’s last swipe at Ohio State fans came during the most challenging week that they’ve had to face in years, probably going back to Troy Smith’s aforementioned $500 handshake.  On top of what he said, he has been trying to sell his Upper Arlington house for years – moving isn’t something he hastily decided to do last week.  It’s impossible to selectively throw just the unruly minority of any fan base under the bus, and he knows it.  By implicating the fans for his move out of Ohio, he threw everyone under the bus, with impeccable timing to boot.

Predictably, the unfortunate events of this past week overshadowed the accomplishments of the basketball team. Just as everyone associated with Ohio State benefits from the football team’s triumphs, everyone also has to pay the price for its misdeeds. This is everyone’s penance, not just Tressel’s for being at the center of it.

Both Herbstreit and Tressel have possessed and punted much of the goodwill that they were long entitled to in just being who they were.  You’ve got two legacies here; one that has been completely destroyed from the inside out and is on its way to Tennessee, and the other that has taken on significant damage, also by its own doing.  There are 37 painful weeks in the college football offseason and you’d be hard-pressed to cite one that’s been worse for an Ohio State fan.  Hopefully sometime over the next few weeks, we’ll get some relief in the form of the best offseason week possible.

84 Comments

Comments

flipbuckeye's picture

Excellent writeup.

German Buckeye's picture

Well what do you expect from Herbie?  Almost certainly he received pressure from his ESPN handlers to ratchet up the anti-OSU bias - it makes $$ for them (somehow, not sure how, but it probably does).  He may be an OSU homer inside, but on the outside needs to play the game with the ESPN cronies.  Don't know what I'd do if my employer told me to change an opinion on something (not illegal or life threatening of course) and then offered me millions to do it.  Something to think about...

741's picture

I am absolutely not a Herbie apologist, but I just don't believe ESPN or anyone else tells him what to say. I am pretty certain Herbie is in control of his own brand, and he chooses how he wants to be portrayed in the public eye... I think he has just made some bad choices in how he markets himself and his so called objectivity.

He has definitely made some questionable decisions in re: hair and wardrobe.

cronimi's picture

Step 1: Hate on OSU in the national Media

Step 2: ...

Step 3: PROFIT!!

Denny's picture

Paradise lost, eh?

I hear the dude blamed the chick, I hear the chick blamed the snake./

I heard they were naked when they got busted. I heard things ain't been the same since.

Taquitos.

Doc's picture

Don't trip on the border leaving Frosted Tips.  We have all said things in disgust about tOSU, or Tressel, or both.  The difference is that 99.999999999999999% of us do not have a national stage and a multimillion dollar contract.  Even with that power the vast majority of us wouldn't go out of our way to bash OSU.  It is one thing to be objective it is quite another to be Herbie.  Fake Ass Buckeye indeed.

"Say my name."

NW Buckeye's picture

Sheeze, this is why I have never defended Tressel or Herbstriet blindly.  Many fans like to put the blinders on and think that their heroes are superhuman.  There is no such being.  Both men have their strengths and weaknesses.  The discerning fan can recognize both and take the good with the bad or the bad with the good.  Both of them are capable of doing some pretty amazing things and some really stupid things.  You just have to hope they keep the stupid things to a bare minimum.  If you want to go around chasing paradise, nirvana, utopia, perfection, the holy grail, or what ever, have a nice quest. 

Maestro's picture

Go hoopsters!!!!

Herbie.......whatever.  Enjoy your orange creamsicles.

vacuuming sucks

btalbert25's picture

Herbstreit is not told or pressured by ESPN to say or do anything.  I know it's easier to blame ESPN for Herbstreit's opinions, but he's a grown assed man and can say whatever he wants.  In a network full of homers, he chooses not to be one.  I've always found it ridiculous when people think he has to main objectivity for his job at ESPN, when some many ESPN "experts" are clearly biased toward certain teams and against others.  Herbie does it on his own.   There is no ESPN conspiracy to take down the Buckeyes.  They really havent pounded this Tressel situation nearly as much as I expected. 

Maestro's picture

He is in a no-win situation really, and I think for the most part he has done a fair job.  Much like Gene Smith this past weekend.  Anyone who wants to will brand anyone affiliated with Ohio State as a blind homer that is jealous of the SEC........blah, blah, blah.

vacuuming sucks

Run_Fido_Run's picture

You're taking down a strawman when you write that "there is no ESPN conspiracy to take down the Buckeyes." Perhaps a very small minority thinks of ESPN's negative bias against the BT in general and Ohio State in particular in conspiratorial terms (i.e., a covert scheme or plot to accomplish some end, usually involving a group that must coordinate its actions, which is why they become exceedingly more difficult to pull off in proportion to the numbers of persons involved therein).

Three months ago, I despised Urban Myer. When I spoke about him to friends, I had mostly nasty things to say. Now, I'm okay with the guy. So, I usually say some positive things about him, along with some moderately negative things. I was not engaging in a conspiracy before, I was biased (and still am, albeit from an altered situation/circumstance).  

ESPN's economic model is now more dependent on the SEC "brand" than it is the BT brand. Indeed, with the rise of the BT Network, ESPN has an ambivalent relationship with the BT (which is both their partner and their competitor). It's not that ESPN brass is telling Herbstreit or any of their other personalities to trash Ohio State and the BT, but an anti-BT mentality is a part of their corporate culture. 

Certainly, that is not the only factor that would drive Ohio State-related ESPN coverage (fairly) or sensationalistic mudslinging (unfairly). It's also because Ohio State media products, both positive and negative, sell. And probably many other reasons as well. But the bias is still prevalent.

Actually, setting aside that ESPN and/or SEC people (together they make up eSECpn) are no more evil or greedy than any other fine Americans (although it is true that we have better academic institutions, more stringent student-athlete requirements, etc.), the stone cold reality is that we (BT folks) are in a low-level financial "cold war" with eSECpn in which one side will ultimately get the upper hand, at which point things will settle down, with the hierarchy reshuffled accordingly. Sorry, that's life, but it's not a conspiracy, as many of the combatants don't even realize that such a "war" is happening.   

btalbert25's picture

Of course ESPN has bias toward the SEC, they have billions of dollars invested in that relationship.  But On this very thread there are comments that suggest Herbie is instructed to or pressured into trashing the Buckeyes.  There are many people who believe this to be true.  That was my point in saying conspiracy to take down the Buckeyes.  To think that executives have meetings where they call Herbie and others in to say, make sure you include something bad about the Buckeyes is absolutely ridiculous though.

It does get old hearing about the SEC, but mostly the broadcasters are correct.  The Big 10 has done nothing to combat that perception.  If the Big 10 had a similar level of success the last decade,  If Ohio State wins 1 or both of the BCS title games against SEC schools, and if ANY other school in the Big 10 other than Ohio State would be consistently good or make a BCS bowl and not get beat the tables would certianly be turned quite a bit.  You have a huge fan base in the SEC who tunes in, and an even large fan base in the Big 10 who gets pissed off about hearing about the SEC, yet they still tune in.   The only way to counter it is to win.   ESPN has always jumped on the coat tails of the greatest teams.  The love the Yankees and Redsox.  They love the Patriots.  They used to really love the ACC basketball, but now it's the Big East.  ESPN will shove whatever is really good down America's throats.  There aren't many people on there that openly bash Ohio State, but the Big 10 in general just hasn't been really good.

RBuck's picture

I'll agree that espn doesn't pressure him to be anti-Buckeye. But, he does it for ratings and love because the haters outnumber us immensely; and that, to me, is worse than being a puppet for the network. 

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

Buckeyebrowny919's picture

i had actually ran head first into a brick wall to forget the past week..but hey, thanks for reminding me...

 

i'll be back..gotta find that wall...

To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift - Steve Prefontaine

Bucks's picture

I can't stand much of what Kirk has said in regards to tOSU. I don't like it and won't accept excuses about possibly being force fed party lines/opinions to have through espn.

Whether he does plenty for tOSU or not when not on camera (he does), going too far is too far.

 

With that said, dismissing the overboard people or deciding for him that it is no big deal or something he can handle is ridiculous. Flat out wrong to decide for them. It's inexcusable to show up at a stranger's door (just seeing him on t.v. does not make you aquaintences) and berate him, make spectacles of insults & insinuation in public and/or while with his family, approach his wife as if she should tell him what to say, call and make threats, vandalize property, etc. All of the above has happened multiple times. Maybe he made the decision to move a bit away years ago ... so what?

 

Taking a parting shot like he did was inexcusable. No defense for it, but I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me I'd deserve the above. No way.

Jason Priestas's picture

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I've yet to hear about anyone showing up at Herbstreit's door to berate him.

Doc's picture

No one here is deffending the asshat fan that shows up at his house, or calls, or even talks to his wife and kids.  He is paid for his opinion, and paid handsomely, he needs to grow a thicker skin.  More importantly he doesn't have to go out of his way to piss off the fan base of his alma mater.  To me this is the rock star that can't handle the fame and then when he puts out a subpar album blames the fans.  Frosted Tips should have just moved to Bristol and got it over with.

We have disdain for Mark May and his hatred of all things OSU.  Why not for the prodigal quarterback?

"Say my name."

Bucks's picture

I would say that yes, there are those defending people going over the line. My basis for that is you balancing him being paid well so he needs to grow a thicker skin. There are always critics no matter who you are. Does he deservedly have critics in regard to tOSU? Absolutely.

There is a difference between a thicker skin and/or dealing with criticism and having idiots believe some of the above is ok.

@Jason. I know of 2 instances for sure at his home. Once while he was in the yard with the kids and once actually knocking on the door. Wasn't there so I can't affirm anything but we have very close (20+ years) family friends 2 doors down & directly behind him ... er where he used to live.

The only point I'm making is criticism is fine and needed. Taking it beyond that into the extreme is not, and noone can tell someone else how much is too much for them.

btalbert25's picture

The problem is, there is hostility toward Herbstreit and it has increased the last 2 or 3 years.  Does he have some responsibility for that, absolutely, there's no defending some of his words or actions.  There's also no defending the actions and words of some fans.  None of us have had to deal with the crap he has, so none of us can comment on whether he is a coward for leaving.  It's really foolish to just dismiss it as, there's crazy fans everywhere or that's what happens when you are in the public eye.  Fact of the matter is, when it's your kids who have to listen to the shit in school every day, when it's you and your wife being approached every time you are in public, the shit gets old.  He has every right to move.

I get aggrivated by his analysis, think this Pryor stuff is ridiculous, and his final AP ballot was a joke.  The guy obviously has some problems with the direction of the program.  Maybe, as someone who is much closer to the program than any of us, he hasn't liked the direction it's taking and has tried to force the school into making a decision about those who lead the program.  It seems he's always been very critical of Jim Tressel and Tressel lead teams.  Maybe he's known about wrong doing in the program for some time now.  Who knows.  He could also just be a douche trying to take Ohio State down because he's been brainwashed by ESPN, which to me is equally a ridiculous thought to have.

Ramzy Nasrallah's picture

Didn't feel it was necessary to go on the record admonishing the sociopaths who might have directly harassed Herbie or his family while in Columbus. "Bad people are bad!"

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Exactly!

But, shockingly, some non-11W blogger wrote an entire, relatively long post on just that subject, i.e. bad people = bad people.

Okay, he also suggested that central Ohio has disproportionately high numbers of bad people, but since he had spent nine paragraphs on bad people = bad people, he had no room left to in which to prove the only other non-tautological statement in his "article."   

doodah_man's picture

Herbie's exodus makes me wonder why no one has ever put together the ESPN News, Game Coverage, Unholy alliance with the SEC. OK, here are the steps:

1) Bad mouth all conferences, except the SEC

2) Props to SEC whenever you can. Talk about their speed, quality of teams, strength of schedule.

3) Recruits react to what they see on ESPN. Top recruits head for SEC schools.

4) SEC schools over sign, Big 10 and other conferences play by the rules.

5) ESPN enters into contract to exclusively broadcast all SEC games.

6) Profit

Does this look to anyone like an Anti-Trust or Unfair Trade Practice situation?

Jim "DooDah" Day
It is hard to play dirty against a man who picks you up.

Marshall's picture

This is along the lines of how I see it as well.  Don't like 24 hour news (CNN, Fox, MSNBC) because they drum up garbage and pound on it all day?  Take a look at the cable sports "news" monopoly!  ESPN has no real competitors anymore, can't even get a different point of view.  At least there's BTN!

Marshall
2002 graduate of The Ohio State University
National champs.  Coincidence?

PALM BEACH BUCKEYE's picture

I have been railing against Herbie on this blog for a few years...    This man no longer (and maybe never did) has loyalty to the very univeristy that created his montorous ego.  When Herbie first Joined ES(ec)PN, HE was the fresh face of Ohio State and he was the positive image of Ohio State as Cooper was the ultimate loser and OSU always lost to Michigan and/or the bowl Game.  Herbie brought his kids on TV, dressed them in OSU gear and openly rooted for OSU knowing HE would be the story for daring to support his team when all of Buckeye nation Knew Coop would ultimately lose. 

Fast forward to the Tressel years and Herbie was no longer the fresh optomistic face of OSU..that title (and ultimately the limelight) went to Jim Tressel.  Fans flocked to Tressel (at Herbie's expense) and Herbie got more and more resentful of the lack of attention going in his direction, so he became an eager and willing participant in bashing Tress and the players around him.  Herbie has needless bashed Troy Smith, Terrelle Pryor, and others and garnered his attention in a negative way.  2004, 2006, 2007, 2010 were years that Herbie took unusual glee in bashing OSU for losses, indescretions, etc...   

I have not  watched GameDay since after the 2006 loss to Florida because it was after that game that I realized just where Herbie was going....   but, the final straw for me was this past season when Herbie took it upon HIMSELF to break the story about the TAT-5 on the night BEFORE Ohio State would be announcing it.  He did it on a nationally televised bowl game and did it himself.  He did not have to do that and could have asked Musburger to do it and just kept his mouth shut or not do it all.  It was coming out the next day... Herbie just wanted his name to be part of the story for the wrong reasons.  And he added insult to injury by bashing Pryor calling him all sorts of things and questioning whether he should ever see the field again...  isnt that the coache's decision.

I have no idea what he has said during the Tressel situation, because I have deliberately stayed off of ES(ec)PN, but I do know that  he is leaving for his own reasons and they have nothing to do with OSU fans.... he just wants the headlines.  I hope he quits his radio show and I hope he gets ripped by Tennesse fans worse, because no one likes a traitor on no one respects one.  goodbye and good riddance.

Marshall's picture

Great writeup.  So hope Bucks cut down nets in Houston and make it all go away!  Need a synchronized swimming win too!

The issue that personally rubs salt in my Herbstreit wound (largely because I really liked the guy 7-9 years ago) is the Cam Newton to Terrelle Pryor criticism ratio.  Pryor sold his Gold Pants (not good, not right, but not illegal).  Newton had the controversy with his dad, but let's not forget that he was also kicked out of Florida for cheating.  But no matter.  Newton gets milk and honey, sunshine and grace by ESPN while playing against Oregon and throughout the pre-draft buildup.  Pryor gets called out by a commentator 20 years his senior who insists on essentially being dubbed "Mr. Loyalty" by those around hiim.  Regardless of what people's feelings are about Pryor (I personally think he's awfully talented, he wants to win really badly, but he has some fundamental immaturities that limit his leadership potential), the Newton to Pryor bash ratio is disproportionate on the part of ESPN (and Herbstreit personally), and creates an artificial imbalance in standards of acceptable behavior on the part of viewers and listeners.  There's no way Pryor stacks up to Newton when it comes to for-real-no-kidding bad behavior, $180K to daddy not withstanding, and yet one is lauded while the other is dogged with constant criticism.

Of course, nobody at the worldwide leader will cop to this, but this absolutely smacks of an agenda, and the guy who claims to be a defender turns out to either be silent, or the guy who chucks the first spear.

I say time to move on.  Don't ever look for love--or even fairness--from ESPN.  Not as long as the Big Ten partners with Fox for their network.  And Ohio State wears the big bullseye by dominating the Big Ten.  But the other point is this:  whenever OSU fans bash on Pryor, you can count on ESPN picking up on it, and then attacking the school at large.  Maybe it's time to lay off our own wounded, and defend the university and our team...all of it...against the cheap shots.

Just my 2 cents on this.

Go Bucks!

Marshall
2002 graduate of The Ohio State University
National champs.  Coincidence?

William's picture

Completely Agree

btalbert25's picture

I can agree that Herbie has been way to critical of Pryor, but outside of Mark May's consistent douchbaggery who on ESPN has trashed Pryor.  During most games, the announcers seem to be quite complimentary of his play.  Lou Holtz and Lee Corso have talked very well of Pryor on air.  I don't get the sense of ESPN hate OSU that other people do.

Marshall's picture

I just simply don't feel like I get the same experience from ESPN that you do, but I reallly appreciate that you are countering honestly.  You're right about Lou and Lee Corso.  Both of them seem really fair.  I think some of them is that both of them are former coaches, and are just more reserved when it comes to bashing kids in general.  You never really hear those two rip into players at all, thinking about it.  I would love to be wrong with my big conspiracy, because I'd love a fair shake for my team, but I just don't believe it will happen with ESPN.

Marshall
2002 graduate of The Ohio State University
National champs.  Coincidence?

German Buckeye's picture

Is something wrong with Lee Corso - he can barely talk anymore?

Jason Priestas's picture

He suffered a stroke.

William's picture

Mark Schlabach, Bruce Feldman, Chris Low, Craig James, Jim Rome, Bill Plaschke, Bomani Jones, JA Adande, the plethora of other members that air on Around the Horn as well. Many members of ESPN's crew of analysts have and continue to defame Ohio State without reason...

Pam's picture

Herbie's 9k sq. ft home is listed at 3M and was listed in 2009.  Most of the stuff that got some fans stirred up is  from last year with Pryor, the #9 AP vote and announcing Tat gate ahead of tOSU.  The fact that he is allowing this story of being "run off" by crazed fans, only shows me how willing he is to throw his alma mater of which he claims to bleeds scarlett and gray, under the bus. 

Denny's picture

It's like, the 9,000 square foot, $3M house market in Columbus, OH isn't burgeoning?

Taquitos.

TheSweaterVest's picture

Interestingly, the Dispatch reports they are willing to sell for 3.75 million.  The auditor, who lists it at less than 8k sq foot, values it at less than $1.7 million. 

If he gets the extra 2 mill, wonder if he will pay the back property taxes.  Ooh!  Burn!

F O U R's picture

I haven't done much searching, but I'd like to hear Luke's take on the Herbie exodus.

One thing that OSU fans have always wanted was to be ranked amidst the SEC's best.  Well, the backlash against Herbie, the "OSU is a victim of an ESPN conspiracy" ramblings and the blind loyalty to Tressel have proven that we can hang with certain SEC fans in one way: stupidity.  Every new post that invokes an "at least we're not Auburn" or "ESPN hates us" comment galvanizes the notion that we, as a fanbase, are nothing special.  We're just as wacko as 'Bama and Auburn fans.

Take a step back and listen to your fucking selves.  It's embarassing.  

 

 

 

 

Luke's picture

Ramzy's absolutely spot on about Tressel. As far as Herby goes, going forward as a fan base and a community, regardless of where we stand, it may be best to recognize he's going to continue serving as an envoy for us whether we like it or not. We take the good and the bad, move on, and hope for the best.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

You seem to be doing an awful lot of incoherent and embarassing "rambling," yourself.

Who wrote that "ESPN hates us"? How can an organization (which is an inanimate entity) be said to hate anyone or any thing?  

As I explain above (probably too exhaustively), arguing that OSU is not a victim of an ESPN conspiracy is a strawman argument - i.e., that no serious commenters are making that argument; rather they are arguing that ESPN has a negative bias against OSU/BT.

Who wrote, "at least we're not Auburn"?

Maybe if you were responding to what people are actually arguing, instead of your distorted perceptions of what they're clamining, you would feel less embarassed by the actual arguments. 

CL's picture

Best celebratory dance?

Movin' like Bernie.

I love scotch. Scotchy, scotch, scotch. Here it goes down, down into my belly...

Buckeyebrowny919's picture

haahhaha

To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift - Steve Prefontaine

WilloughbyBuck's picture

I think Herbie still wants to see good things for Ohio State - I really do.  He may be wrong in not realizing the platform he is on makes voicing his opinions so much more potentially harmful but they are just his opinions.  I can disagree with someone and still not despise them for disagreeing with me.  I won't begin to justify all of his statements or poll votes (I can't ) but there are too many people all over this country that think everything is black and white.  "If you disagree then then hell with you," and then they never bother to think about WHY someone might disagree.  His attacks on Pryor have been over the top but I really think it's Pryor's personna that he dislikes, not the football player.  Herbie wants "Tressel-guys" to represent OSU and Pryor is hardly that.  We all cringe when he is interviewed in fear of the next crazy, nonsensical thing that will come out.  I think Herbie is embarrassed as a former player that Pryor is the current face of the program.  Pryor hardly comes off as a responsible, well-spoken, educated young man - even if he really is.  As to the comments about not sending his son to OSU, well, Tressel's offensive philosophy is not exactly known as the best place for OFFENSIVE players to really showcase their talents.  True ? It works very well to win games but if you were worried about making sure your son had the best chance to shine maybe you would want to see them go elsewhere - if you take the scarlet and gray glassess off.  A number of us might think that.  He just happened to say it in front of millions of viewers. 

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Ramzy hits the nail on the head: Herbstreit has a thin skin. Many of us observed/heard examples of Herbstreit's thin skin as long ago as - what? - about 12 or 13 years ago on local radio programs (occassionally, even surprisingly stark examples).

I'm not inclined to spend much effort on the disclaimers - that, of course, any fools who harassed Herbstreit or his family are pathetic menaces that have no place whatsoever in the Buckeye family. Certainly, I wouldn't write an entire sanctimonious blog article around that one patently obvious point (as some non-11W blogger did). But, after Herby sold his house that had been on the market for two years, and then after relocating to Tennessee, does that mean that Herby and family will no longer have to worry about any pathetic menaces?        

btalbert25's picture

It's my opinion, that in Tennessee, while he is a celebrity and people will know him, he's not a Vol.  People may get riled up if he mentions Tennessee, but aside from being on TV, he's not going to be rockstar popular and certainly not the public face of their program to the rest of the nation.  People will recognize him sure, but I can't imagine they're going to debate every word he says, question his loyalty with every statement, or harrass him in public or his kids in school for statements he makes.  People will know Kirk Herbstreit, but in Nashville he's just a dude with a lot of money who is on TV.  He'll never be "Herbie"  SEC people think everything he says is pro OSU, despite the words that actually come out of his mouth.  Every time I talk to a fan of another school, SEC or not, they talk about how they don't like Game Day because Herbstreit always makes everything about OSU.  People down there just won't care much about what he has to say. 

 

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I think you're right up to a point, but aren't there rumors that Tenn, thanks to Kiffykins, is potentially in line for more sanctions. What will Herby do, avoid talking about Tenn? And, if so, that might help his family/lifestyle situation, but it wouldn't do any favors for his dwindling broadcasting reputation. Given enough time and variables, isn't it only a matter of time before the locals in Nashville would have heard enough of what they might perceive as "offensive" statements from Herby? It might seem like a cozy new home for the Herby clan right now, but the rhythms of CFB might have something to say about that in the future. And, if so, where will he move next?

Besides, hasn't Herby always said that the cheerleaders/coeds were prettier down south, the tailgates more fun, the games more exciting, etc.? Aren't his feet now just catching up with his mouth?     

btalbert25's picture

I don't think he'll avoid talking about Tennessee, Auburn, Oregon, or Ohio State.  They all are in some hot water and likely will be in the news during the offseason and regular season.  I guess you kind of missed my point about him living in Tennessee and talking about the Vols.  He's not a Vol, never been one, and will never be seen as part of their program, so his opinion won't be valued down there as it pertains to their school. 

Let's look at it this way.  Say Peyton Manning resides in Knoxville once his career is over, if not Peyton insert any other prominent Vol.  The fan base is going to pay attention to everything he says and they will be highly critical, because certainly he is the most recognizable Vol to a national audience.  If he says some negatives about the Tennessee program and moves to Ohio, people in Ohio aren't really going to give two shits what his opinions of Ohio State are.  If they are negative, we don't care, he's an SEC homer anyway.  Sure maybe we'll complain, but he's not a Buckeye, He's a Tennessee homer anyway and we dont' care what he thinks.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I didn't miss your point about him not having to worry about locals perceiving him as a traitor in Tenn - that's why I agreed with your point, but only to a certain extent.

If he says critical things about Tenn, he will get plenty of hate from his neighbors. He's a "yankee," an ex-Ohio State golden boy, etc. These other factors might not be as hate-inducing as the traitor angle, but we'll just have wait and see how it plays out in the future (assuming that Herby ever shocks the world by actually criticizing something of the SEC).  

buckeyedude's picture

I know it's not quite the same, but look at how LeBron has been treated since he left. Personally, I see a lot of similarities in the rhetoric against both. I just think people are overly sensitive. Sorry. Just my opinion.

 

 

RBuck's picture

Question...wasn't it Herbstreit who wanted the UA fire department to burn his house down so he could write it off? If so, he's the liar.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

Doc's picture

That was years ago.  The original house on the property wasn't up to his liking so he had the UA fire department burn it for practice.  He then can take the value of the house as a charitable deduction(or some such thing) and rebuild.  The house he is selling is on the same property.

"Say my name."

Doc's picture

I think the ranting we do here at 11W is amongst like minded people for the most part.  It is easy sitting at work reading this to get riled up and shoot off a little.  I would bet that not one single member of this board would say anything but nice things to Herbie if we had the chance.  Are there lunatics out there?  Of course, but for the most part we are a classy group.  We are not the ignorant banjo playing inbreds of the SEC, nor are we the arrogant no nothings of TSUN, we are definetely not the fan bases of Bucky and PSU either.

ESPN may or may not have an axe to grind with tOSU, it sure seems like it, but who knows.  I enjoy Corso and Holtz and Smith and Speils.  The rest of them are blow hards.  Sportscenter is terrible.  Their coverage of the NFL is unwatchable.  Even Brent Pusberger has gotten better.  I prefer the high school news program that is the B1G network.

I think, as fans, our blind loyalty comes when we are being attacked.  We know Tress messed up, along with the Tat5.  It gets our ass up on our back when outsiders treat it like it is bigger than what it is.  ESPN is in the corner of the SEC that is why it sugar coated the $ham Newton $tory.  It bothers us when one of our own, Herbie, piles on.

Where are you going to move to next when the Vols fans say something to you at the local Piggly Wiggly? 

"Say my name."

Doc's picture

See!  My point exactly!

"Say my name."

Luke's picture

Jeeze. This dude looks a lot like me if I weighed 250 pounds. Better start eating.

blazers34's picture

hahaha, i know ive seen a picture of you somewhere (maybe twitter or something, but I actually thought that was you

Run_Fido_Run's picture

"Where are you going to move next when . . ." Oops, I inadvertantly stole this line (above) just a minute ago. Also, good points overall.

qualityshows's picture

I think this should have been two separate articles. I don't know enough about the Herbstreit situation as I am not in Columbus, but it seems trivial compared to the Tressel one. I can't help but notice that the Tressel part of the article is similar to my own posted today:

Is Jim Tressel Nixon in a Sweater Vest?

http://qualityshows.wordpress.com

I'm a Buckeyes fan but this was pretty awful by OSU.

Doc's picture

Come on Joe give me a break...  Making the strectch that Tressel is the next Nixon is really getting out there.  I believe, as do most of the people I have talked to, think Tressel was trying to protect his "kids" until the bigger fish was fried.  Nothing more, nothing less.  You can't fake sincerety for long and get away with it. 

"Say my name."

theDuke's picture

Good Ridence to herbs.  Get him out of here.  He had a backbone like a wet noodle when it came to our Buckeyes.  He wanted to be so politically correct and middle of the road that his love for his alma matter was questioned. I've been calling on that ESPN/SEC mole to get out of Columbus for years.  I mean Crap man!! Mark May gets on the screen and thinks the Pitt panthers are gonna roll up a championship every year! Hahaha!  Get a Backbone, Herbs. You're a BUCKEYE!  Act like one.  It's okay to talk about how good your alma matter is and how we're gonna stomp on everyone, and then eat your words if you're wrong.  That's sport. Any tOSU fan who says they've never felt a little slighted by Herbs is lying.... whooooooa.  Glad I could finally get that out... 

theDuke

WilloughbyBuck's picture

Just because I've felt slighted by him doesn't mean I want him gone.  And his role for ESPN is thankfully much larger and different from Mark the idiot May.  I really don't want to be the Herbie apologist - he's pissed me off plenty.  But we gotta have a thicker skin ourselves !  We aren't perfect and we deserve criticism sometimes.  Even if you think its wrong or unfair at least look to see why some reasonable people might disagree with you.  There's probably some truth to it even though you don't like it.

johnblairgobucks's picture

Herbstriet is a Buckeye, and always will be.  He has opinions and has a stage, like it or not.  I live 100 miles from Columbus and see OSU as a source of Pride for alot of Ohioans.  I'm proud of Ohio State, the way they (football and basketball players and coaches) handle themselves before, during and after the games. 

Jim Tressel has alot to do with how Ohio State has become that statewide source of pride.  However Jim Tressel did lie.  I can't really put a finger on how I feel about him yet.  Like in the case of Troy Smith taking the $500, I was upset at him for putting OSU in a bad situation.  I'm upset now, that OSU is in bad situation. 

I believe the NCAA will suspend Tressel for 8 games.  OSU will have to make tough desicions, and their desicions will be based on OSU's win-loss record for 2011.  If OSU has a substandard year due to someone's bad decision, then  I would expect OSU to move in a new direction.  If OSU has sucess on the field, makes a nice bowl and has no further infractions, Tressel will keep his job, mending will be done, and we move forward.

winning cures alot of ills.  Troy smith made some mistakes, his winning made him a legend.  Tressel made a mistake, if he wins he will be a legend.  Winning isn't everything but it is damn important. 

Go Bucks. ESPN can eat a shitsandwich....hold the bread. 

buckeyedude's picture

I wonder if Herbie felt his wife and kid's safety was an issue? If my family was constantly bothered and harassed by some unstable fan(s), I probably would want to move them where I felt they were safe. I really can't blame the guy. He wants privacy for his family, obviously. Any good father would do the same, IMO.  And why is it considered  "a swipe" to explain why he was leaving? I think he was just being honest.

Sometimes I think some of us are a little too sensitive.

 

 

Run_Fido_Run's picture

That is an excellent point. No question, many of us (including myself) can be too sensitive about (perceived) attacks (or even reasonable criticisms) of our beloved Buckeyes. 

And when oversensitivity veers off into crazyland, it might even lead to bad situations, like what Herby is claiming happened to him and his family. If I were in the shoes he alleges to be wearing, I would do everything in my power to protect my family and would not hesitate to relocate the family to a safer and/or more hospitable place/locale.

Okay, but he's still said/done some stupid things that have unecessarily exposed his alma mater - that doesn't go away because there are crazy people out there.           

buckeyedude's picture

I agree FIDO, that Herbie has said things that some of us may not like, but he's a Buckeye. The dude was QB for Ohio State for Pete's sake! I can't believe anyone would question his loyalty. Has anybody posting on here never said something they wish they could take back? We can be angry at him, even call him out for the things he's said, but his family is off base. That is what I hate about politics: the media always goes after the family.

 

 

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I, for one, never questioned Herbstreit's status as a Buckeye. Nevertheless, my (completely harmless) disdain for some of things he's said in recent years still stands. Maybe Herbstreit, as a Buckeye and always a Buckeye, will get a better clue and then I'll praise the true Buckeye for saying smarter things.   

Colby3333's picture

Great piece.  Couldn't agree more.

gravey's picture

I don't like having F.A.B.streit and Tressel in the same article either.  This somehow conflates a total immature, douchebag, ego-maniac (who used to be pretty cool) and perhaps the most high-quality coach in the country, who admittedly did something pretty stupid and out of character.

I keep thinking of what Tress did for Drushaun's family following the 2002 championship season.  Dude is not a sleazebag and I won't believe he has become one until this becomes a pattern equal to his track record of remarkable class.

Herbie's legacy had not grown through his actions enough to allow him to be forgiven for all the vindictive crap he's done to the Buckeyes over the last few years.

This week on the whole has not completely sucked. 

 

johnblairgobucks's picture

when asked for his opinion on being a Buckeye, and how he feels about OSU, Cie Grant had this to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eW2ZBU9UHI

 

Silver Shotgun's picture

I think Herbie is a traitor, and I've said so many times.  In light of that, how can one find it hard to believe that fellow Buckeye fans have habitually told him so when they've seen him?  He shouldn't BE a traitor, but he also shouldn't be expected to relish being called out on it.  Half of Columbusites are fans of Ohio State?  I don't know which part of Columbus you inhabit, but clearly I've never been there.  Not every resident bleeds Scarlet and Grey, but it's a hell of a lot more than half.

As for Tress, there isn't an asterisk next to his cheating.  He cheated, he knew it, and then he lied about it.  He needs to be fired.  One of my fondest memories in my years of cheering for Ohio State happened in January in the Superdome as the Buckeye faithful chanted "S-E-C" at the outgoing Razorback fans.  Tressel's malfeasance now imperils the legitimacy of that victory and taints everything he does going forward.

William's picture

 Fire Tressel? That's ludicrous.

BigRedBuckeye's picture

I just want to chime in with a national perspective. As a Buckeye in NJ, who spends a lot of time in VT, I just want to make sure that everyone understands how little these stories have been reported out here. I gather, from talking to a couple of friends back in Ohio, that these stories, especially the Tressel one, have been constant and all-encompassing.

 

Well, honestly, if it weren't for this blog, I am not sure I would have even heard of either of them. Yes, they are on ESPN.com and a blip on Sportscenter, but I think that the popular sentiment is "Hey, I remember this scandal. We already dealt with this."

 

Comparatively speaking, the OSU basketball team  is getting constant air time, everywhere. Their chances are discussed constantly on ESPN, and Mike Francesa is talking only Spring Training and March Madness on his show.

 

So, while these stories are obviously important, and the moral implications are myriad, as of right now, I think the PR damage is minimal, on a national basis. Obviously the core OSU fan base in Ohio, and our conference rivals also, to some extent, are going to focus on these stories, but I think they are much less of a big deal than we are making them out to be. 

And we'll drink to old Ohio, 'Til we wobble in our shoes! 

NeARBuckeye's picture

I live in Arkansas and it's been awful. Thankfully their attention is shifting but I hear all the time how we're cheaters and the dirtiest program in the universe.

But I agree to some extent. My co-workers harped on me for a few days and then eventually lost interest. It probably helped that we all hate how Auburn and their fans skated away with a national championship.

Pam's picture

BRB,

I said the same thing on another thread.  I live in NJ (Princeton) and without watching ESPN, I don't think I would have known much either except for a tiny blurb in the Trenton Times.  This is a huge deal to us and to the CFB world however,but the grand scheme of things, not so much.  Not trying minimize what Tressel has done, only that the "national perspective" is not focusing on Ohio State football right now. 

VABuckeyeFan's picture

Thankfully, I believe we can discontinue any talk of Tressel losing his job.  If you watched the press conference Gene Smith was emphatic that "no matter where this ends up Jim Tressel is still our coach."  Gee then went on to say that he sat down with Tressel for three hours and satisfied himself that there were no smoking guns and that he fully supports him.  He even challenged one reporter for being crazy enough to bring it up.  Tressel is not going anywhere regardless of what you hear from any other source, nor should he. 

As for Herbstriet, he got his job for being a good looking young guy with a good voice from a major football university.  No one ever said he was a genius.  Do we hold it against Lou Holtz or Digger Phelps when they pull for Notre Dame, or Mark May for Pitt, or any of the "ESPN Experts" when they pull for their alma maters? Of course not, it is often done tongue-in-cheek and we viewers know it.  It's having a little fun.  Herbstriet's comments stink of envy, or some preceived slight we may not even know about.  Or, he just may be stupid enough to think his absolute non-bias is necessary to do the job.  Either way, he should have connected the future dots and moved as soon as he began down that path.  It was inevitable.

phxbuck's picture

I graduated from The Ohio State University and I am a die hard fan but I also got the heck out of that state.  It is cold and grey and I moved to Phoenix.  That doesn't make me any less of an Ohio State fan.  I could really care less where herbstreit moves too or why he moves there.  It is absolutely of no consequence to me what Kirk Herbstreit says or does. If he wants to go out of his way to seem objective by throwing OSU under the bus then so be it.  Herbstreit is meaningless to how this team performs or how the players and coaches act.  Although I do like Tressel he has completely screwed this program for the forseable future in the public's perception.  We can talk all day about Auburn but bottom line they did not get caught with NCAA infractions.  Our "Senator" got caught red handed acting inappropriately and lying and acting like a Senator or Politician.  

Also in regards to the ESPN loving the SEC I do not understand why everyone is so baffled by this.  4 different teams have won the National Championship in the last 5 years.  Can you even imagine the Big Ten pulling that off???? It would look something like this - OSU, Iowa, Michigan, OSU, Penn State - Your lying if you think that this is even remotely possible.  If the Big Ten had won every National Championship since 2006 ESPN would be obsessed with the Big Ten.  Why don't we concentrate on how we can start winning some big games and win some titles rather than losing sleep over Kirk flipping Herbstreit. 

William's picture

You do realize that we are 6-3 in BCS bowls? Ohio State has won big games and lost some as well. The Big Ten suffers because other teams don't step up. While we are the flagship program, and while two of our national title losses may have hurt the perception of the Big Ten, I don't see any other teams in the Big Ten stepping up. Also I am not baffled at why ESPN analysts champion the SEC so much as to why they show obvious disgust for anything Big Ten.

phxbuck's picture

Good point, it is just frustrating to watch the rest of the Big Ten suck it.  

Roger's picture

I went to Arizona State and moved back to Ohio as soon as I could. Couldn't stand Phoenix and it's lack of culture. Plus, IMO, people who need sunshine year round are soft.

William's picture

Agree with this completely. Living in North Carolina is unbearable, there are only two seasons, summer which lasts about nine months and then winter for three. There is no transition. I find that Ohio having four seasons is by far better. It makes going to Ohio State this Fall that much better.

Leanenaud's picture

I'll never leave Florida. Unless it's for a lot of money. I would bring home $10,000 less per year if i had my job in Ohio because of taxes!

flipbuckeye's picture

Funny, living here in Cleveland I always joked that winter lasts about 9 months and summer 3 months.

phxbuck's picture

haha, well I guess that I am soft then.  I will give you the culture argument if you are talking about Cleveland or Cincinnati....but Columbus?  Columbus has about as much culture as a T.V. dinner. 

NeARBuckeye's picture

Y'know, considering the track record of politicians, we probably brought this upon ourselves by calling him the Senator.

buckeyedude's picture

Good point. And what are 99% of politicians, formerly? Loiyas! And I hate loiyas!