The 11W Heart of It All Classic: Politics & Military Region Voting

By DJ Byrnes on March 18, 2014 at 2:00p
105 Comments

We now move on to the Politics and Military region, lorded over by President Ulysses S. Grant and General William Tecumseh Sherman. In what is probably the most stacked region of this tournament, the winner will be forged in fire, blood and brimstone and must be considered the favorite to win the tournament outright.

If you need a refresher, you can read up on the full rules and seedings. Here's your printable bracket (PDF).

Winners will be announced on Friday night with the second round of voting opening up Saturday morning.

#1 Ulysses S. Grant vs. #16 Paul Tibbets

Ulysses S. Grant: Born and raised in Ohio, the S. stood for "Nothing." After being nominated at 17 by a local congressman for a position at the United States Military Academy at West Point, Grant would rise through the military ranks to Commanding General of the United States Army. 

Under the lead of Grant, the Union smashed the Confederacy in a decisive victory. Grant was on hand when General Robert E. Lee bent his knee and surrendered at Appomattox, securing the B1G's first and only Civil War championship over the SEC.

Not satisfied, Grant rode his military success to becoming the the 18th President of the United States. Known for a steel liver and some shady political appointments, he oversaw reconstruction of the South, expanded civil rights and fought the Ku Klux Klan.

Paul Tibbets: Paul Tibbets was an Air Force Brigadier-General most-known for being the pilot of the Enola Gay.

With Japan on the ropes and having endured a vicious fire-bombing campaign, the U.S. was eyeing a costly land-invasion. Instead, US elders went for the freshly-minted atomic option.

On August 5, 1945, Brigadier-General Paul Tibbets personally selected the Enola Gay — he named it after his mother — off the B-29 Superfortress assembly line. The next day, he would fly the Enola Gay — armed with America's first atomic bomb, code-named "Little Boy" —  and bomb Hiroshima, killing between 60,000-80,000 people. 

Three days later, Nagasaki was atomically bombed. On August 15, 1945 the Japanese officially surrendered to the Allied Powers. Though horrific, the atomic bombings are thought to have saved thousands of American lives. 

#2 William Tecumseh Sherman vs. #15 John Rankin

William Tecumseh Sherman: Possibly the strongest No. 2 seed in the whole tournament, the Scourge of Georgia was born in Lancaster in February of 1820.

Sherman was commissioned as a colonel of a then-unraised, volunteer brigade. His ascension through the ranks of the US military culminated with his appoint as Ulysses S. Grant's successor as Commanding General of the United States Army in 1869.

Sherman would etch his name into American lore by dealing the decisive knock-out blow to the Confederate Army. Originally charted to aide in the pursuit of Robert E. Lee's retreating forces, Grant was convinced by Sherman to allow him to break towards Georgia and bring the Peach State to heel through total war. Sherman was convinced he could "make Georgia howl," and he wasn't wrong.

He sliced through Georgia, burning everything that stood in his way. After sacking Savannah, Sherman gifted it to President Lincoln on Christmas Day in 1864. He then turned his attention to the Carolinas and burned everything of military value during what history would call his "March to the Sea." 

John Rankin: Rankin is a famous abolitionist and Presbyterian minister. Upon moving to Ripley in 1822, Rankin became one of the most active conductors on the Underground Railroad. Harriet Beecher Stowe, the author of Uncle Tom's Cabin, was even influenced by Rankin's devout work.

It's speculated he helped thousands of runaway slaves gain their freedom while risking imprisonment, and his 1826 anti-slavery letters to his slave-owning brother — some of his first published work in Ripley, a town then-known for brawls and shootings — were the first written anti-slavery views west of the Appalachians. Rankin eventually convinced his brother, who moved to Ohio in 1827 and freed his slaves.

#3 John Glenn vs #14 Victoria Woodhull

John Glenn: Cambridge's John Glenn is a former Marine Corps pilot, US Senator and astronaut. He is the only surviving member of the Mercury Seven, the elite pilots trained by NASA to be America's first astronauts.

In 1962, aboard Friendship 7, Glenn became the first American to orbit the Earth. He was rightfully crowned as a national hero.

Two weeks after President Kennedy was assassinated, Glenn left NASA and returned to Ohio to run for Senate, an office he held from 1974 to 1999. 

Victoria Woodhull: Born in Homer in 1838 nearly a century before women got the right to vote, Victoria Woodhull was a premier leader and thinker in the early women's suffrage movement. 

A proponent of free love, Woodhull believed women had the right to marry, divorce and bear children without government interference. In 1872, she became the first woman candidate for President of the United States, running under the Equal Rights Party. In 2001, she was posthumously inducted into the National Women's Hall of Fame.

#4 Tecumseh vs. #13 John Brown

Tecumseh: Born on the banks of the Scioto River in 1768, Tecumseh was the first tournament entrant to lay down Ohio roots. Forged in the fires of the American Revolutionary War and Northwest Indian War, Tecumseh knew battle from an early age.

He was a Shawnee Native American who formed his own Native confederacy to rise up in resistance of the United States' expansion during Tecumseh's War and the War of 1812.

Allied with the British and aiding in the capture Fort Detroit, Tecumseh's resistance to American expansion proved futile when he was slain by American forces in the Battle of the Thames in 1813. He remains a Native American icon and a folklore legend to this day.

John Brown: John Brown is one of America's most legendary abolitionists for his thinking armed insurrection was the only way to combat the institution of slavery.

Born in Connecticut, Brown's family would move to Hudson in 1805. After a stint back in Connecticut for college, Brown returned to Ohio and began work as a tanner. It looked like that might be his fate, but after the murder of Elijah P. Lovejoy, Brown famously declared: "Here, before God, in the presence of these witnesses, from this time, I consecrate my life to the destruction of slavery!"

After whetting his appetite by leading raids during the Bleeding Kansas saga, Brown's anti-slavery work culminated with the 1859 raid on Harpers Ferry, a federal armory. Although the raid was successful, Brown's men abandoned him and he was captured by federal and militia forces lead by Robert E. Lee. He was hanged shortly thereafter, but his death was an instrumental force causing the Civil War.

#5 CLarence Darrow vs. #12 Warren G. Harding

Clarence Darrow: Darrow was born in rural northeastern Ohio (Kinsman Township) to an ardent abolitionist and women's suffragette.

After stops at Allegheny College and Michigan Law School — he graduated from neither — Darrow was admitted to the Ohio Bar in 1878. He would rise to become one of the most prominent trial lawyers and free thinkers of the 19th century.

Famous for defending the teenage thrill-killers who murdered a 14-year-old boy, Darrow would become most renowned for his owning of the SEC in defense of John T. Scopes in the "Scopes Monkey Trial." (His opponent was a small historical figure you may have heard of: William Jennings Bryan.)

Warren G. Harding: The 29th President of the United States, Warren G. Harding rose from small-town newspaper peddler to the Leader of the Free World while rarely having to leave the confines of his front porch.

Born in Blooming Grove in 1865, Warren came to his eternal home, Marion, after graduating from Ohio Central College at the age of 16. After buying a raggedy newspaper operation with his friends (and winning full control in a back-room poker game), Warren turned The Marion Star into the official paper of county record, married the daughter of his arch-rival and began his career in politics.

In 1919 — the first year women could vote — Warren G. Harding won the presidential election in an historical landslide. An affable fellow rumored to favor bacchanalian White House-orgies and multiple mistresses, he ushered the American economy into an era of unseen prosperity before mysteriously dying in 1923. While Warren's presidential cabinet was riddled with corruption — see the Teapot Dome scandal — it has never been proven Warren was complicit in any wrongdoing. 

#6 Eddie Rickenbacker vs. #11 William McKinley

Eddie Rickenbacker: Fast Eddie was born in Columbus in 1890, and rose to the rank of Air Force Major.

Rickenbacker enlisted in 1917, but his desires to pilot an airplane were quashed by his superiors due to Rickenbacker's lack of formal education and his more-valued mechanical skills.

When Rickenbacker showed he had a qualified replacement, the Air Force assigned him to the 94th Aero Squadron. It turned out to be a good decision. In April of 1918, Rickenbacker shot down his first enemy airplane.

When he hung up his fightin' mittens, Rickenbacker flew more than 300 combat hours. His 26 confirmed aerial victories was a United State military record until World War II. For his bravery, Rickenbacker was awarded the Medal of Honor, the country's highest honor. Columbus' Rickenbacker Air Force Base bears his name today.

William McKinley: Born in Niles in 1843, William McKinley's political career culminated with being elected as the nation's 25th President in 1897. He oversaw America's victory in the Spanish-American War and is the last president to have served in the Civil War.

A staunch protectionist, McKinley rose tariffs to protect American industry. He was also a fierce defender of the gold standard and pursued annexation of Hawaii.

McKinley's policies were popular enough to see him re-elected for a second presidential term in 1900. Shortly after his second inauguration in March 1901, however, McKinley was shot by anarchist Leon Czolgosz. Initially thought to have survived the attack, McKinley succumbed to unforeseen intestinal gangrene.

#7 George Custer vs. #10 Curtis LeMay

George Custer: Like all legends claimed by Michigan, George Armstrong Custer was born in (New Rumley) Ohio (in 1839). He has the dubious honor of ranking last in his graduating class at West Point.

Poor academic career aside, Custer rose to Brevet Major General and was a calvary commander in the Civil War. His troops played a significant role in the Appomattox campaign, and Custer was on hand to watch Robert E. Lee bend the knee to Ulysses S. Grant.

After the Civil War, Custer was dispatched out west squelch Native America rebellion to U.S. expansion. He was quite successful, but his accolades were all washed away after Custer's Last Stand in Bighorn, Montana, in 1876, where a coalition of Native American forces slew Custer and all of his men.

Curtis LeMay: Old Iron Pants began his life in Columbus in 1906. When he died 83 years later, "Bombs Away" LeMay would be one of the most controversial figures in American military history.

Rising to the rank of Four-Star Air Force General during World War II, LeMay designed the effective (and very controversial) systematic bombing against Japanese cities and "Operation Starvation," a minelaying campaign in Japan's waterways in order to disrupt Japanese shipping.

He served as Air Force Chief of Staff from 1961 until his retirement in 1965. He also ran under the American Independent Party flag for Vice President of the United States on a ticket with George Wallace in 1968. 

#8 William Howard Taft vs. #9 Salmon P. Chase

William Taft: Born in Cincinnati, Taft would become one of the most prominent politicians of his era. He is the only person in United States history to serve as President of the United States and as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

Taft's accomplishments were numerous in his only term as President: he trust-busted powerful corporations, oversaw civil service reform, improved the post office and passed with the Sixteenth Amendment to the US Constitution.

Owner of one of the silkiest mustaches in presidential history, Taft also has the dubious honor of being the only US President fat enough (5'11", 335 lbs) to allegedly get stuck in a bathroom tub.

Salmon P. Chase: Raised and partially educated in Ohio, Salmon P. Chase was a former Ohio Senator and 23rd Governor of the Buckeye State. He served as U.S. Treasury Secretary under President Abraham Lincoln. He was also the sixth Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court and presided over President Andrew Johnson's impeachment trial.

A staunch abolitionist, Chase was one of the first to articulate the "slave power conspiracy," even before President Lincoln. Chase believed there to be a conspiracy of southern slave owners to seize control of the federal government and "block liberty" before the first shot of the Civil War had even been fired.

Chase also has the honor of being the face of the 10,000 dollar bill, the largest bill to ever be publicly circulated in the United States.

105 Comments

Comments

DJ Byrnes's picture

CLARENCE DARROW ATTENDED MICHIGAN AND DID ALL PERTINENT WORK OUTSIDE THE STATE OF OHIO, FOLKS.

The choice is as clear as its ever been, and as always, that choice is Warren Gamaliel Harding, the 29th (and greatest) United States President.

Californian by birth, Marionaire by the Grace of President Warren G. Harding.

pukindawg's picture

Welp that's good enough for me. Vote to Warren G.

+3 HS
Buckeye Scottie's picture

...they droppin' and yellin' it's a tad bit late Nate Dogg and Warren G had to regulate...

+1 HS
el duderino's picture

Agreed. I would think that having attended TSUN would disqualify one from being eligible for this contest, regardless of whether that person graduated.

"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."

+4 HS
BuckFly's picture

I submit that any native born Ohioan who attends any school in that godforsaken state forfeits their Ohio citizenship, and benefits that follow.

+6 HS
Ashtabula's picture

Have you already found some mud to sling at Tecumseh for the next round?

BuckFly's picture

Not only was he the baddest ass Indian warrior of his time, Tecumseh rose to the rank of brigadier general in the British army, be careful there DJ...

+3 HS
RBuck's picture

Inherit the Wind is one of my favorite movies, Thanks for making it tough on me DJ. But...since you pointed out the Michigan connection WGH it is.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

BucksfanXC's picture

DJ, I know it's your thing to talk up the fellow Marion boy, WGH. But he has to be mentioned in the discussion of worst president ever. He was clearly owned by the mob, let corruption run rampant through the federal government, and arguably started the ball rolling towards the Great Depression. He may or may not have been killed by his wife for repeatedly cheating on her after only marrying her to gain public support and sympathy.

Darrow was a beloved defense attorney, one of a select few. He defended evolution in the South against the biggest celebrity attorney of the South.

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

+10 HS
DJ Byrnes's picture

 

Californian by birth, Marionaire by the Grace of President Warren G. Harding.

BucksfanXC's picture

Touche. But admit Darrow was baller. I picture him as the Urban Meyer type personality that you can't help but love the guy and want to run through a wall for him if instructed to do so.

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

Joe Beale's picture

Warren G. Harding not only restored prosperity and kept us out of war, but he was a civil rights pioneer. He went into the deep south and made speeches advocating anti-lynching laws, speeches that were politically very costly. In this area, Harding was a breath of fresh air after segregationist Woodrow Wilson left office. This match should go to Harding in a landslide.

BucksfanXC's picture

Listen, I know Harding was a civil rights and suffrage supporter and was as outspoken about it as he could be as a politician in the 20s. But Darrow, who I feel could have been a great politician if wanted to be, used his intellegence, wit and charm to defend the kind of defendants that no one wanted to defend, all in the name of justice and equality. Darrow is a champion of the legal system. 

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

+2 HS
Joe Beale's picture

But Darrow, who I feel could have been a great politician if wanted to be, 

Darrow ran for congress in 1896 and lost, so maybe he could have been a great politician but this one attempt was apparently enough to convince him otherwise. 

used his intellegence, wit and charm to defend the kind of defendants that no one wanted to defend, all in the name of justice and equality.

Leopold and Loeb were the sons of wealthy families. Likewise the McNamara brothers were very wealthy, as were many of the mob bosses that Darrow defended and Eugene Debs was no pauper but a very famous labor leader. I admire Darrow's defense of Ossian Sweet but most of the rest of the Darrow reputation is based on myths, especially his supposed demolition of William Jennings Bryan. Based on the fiction of Inherit the Wind, most people believe the myth but scholars have analyzed the transcript and come up with a different outcome. As an example, Alan Dershowitz in his book America on Trial wrote:

"All in all, a reading of the transcript shows Bryan doing quite well defending himself, while it is Darrow who comes off quite poorly - in fact as something of an antireligious cynic." (p. 266)

In truth, Darrow was an ignorant bigot when it comes to the subject of religion, and his support for eugenics (based on his faith that scientists knew which children were more fit to live) is deplorable. Give him credit for being a canny lawyer, but he made a lot of money in the process so I question whether his motivation was "justice and equality" but more like good old-fashioned profit. 

BucksfanXC's picture

The best lawyers aren't cheap, doesn't mean money was the only reason he did it. And you can't charge that much unless you deserve it or else people would stop hiring you. So obviously he did enough throughout his career to earn that kinda fee. I know the movie sensationalized the story quite a bit, but it still was a big thing to defend a vehemently unpopular opinion in the South. I had not heard of his stance on eugenics and I can't and won't defend that. To me, it can be a matter of opinion if he helped justice and equality while making a profit along the way, or made a profit and helped justice and equality along the way. But either way, it can't be denied that he did serve justice and equality.

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

Joe Beale's picture

The best lawyers aren't cheap, doesn't mean money was the only reason he did it. And you can't charge that much unless you deserve it or else people would stop hiring you. So obviously he did enough throughout his career to earn that kinda fee.

Right...sorry I didn't mean to imply that he didn't earn his money. Apologize if I gave that impression. He was undoubtedly good at criminal defense.

But either way, it can't be denied that he did serve justice and equality.

Which would be true of any criminal defense lawyer, at any point in our history. My comment about the wealth of his clients was directed toward the idea that he defended those clients that others would not take. It would be more accurate to say that his reputation meant he would get the clients that could not be defended by anyone else because no one else could make a case of it and no one else would be worth the kind of money that such a defense would demand.

M Man's picture

The only thing more expensive than the best lawyer, is the second-best lawyer.

+2 HS
Oakland Buckeye's picture

HARDING WILL FALL vs Tecumseh!

+1 HS
Doc's picture

I voted for Harding, I was afraid DJ would run me out of town on a rail if I didn't.  ;D

"Say my name."

+1 HS
ColoradoBuck's picture

A somewhat distant cousin of mine. It's disappointing how little I actually know about his presidency, but everyone tells me he was absolute shit...

Will vote for him in every round nonetheless. Go cousin Warren!

ScarletGray43157's picture

It is shocking that Harding is a 12 seed.

In old Ohio there's a team that's known throughout the land...

nburns18's picture

It says that Sherman giftwrapped Georgia to Lincoln in 1964. Pretty sure they meant 1864. Awesome bracket though. Grant is a tough one to beat

"You win with people." -Woody Hayes

+1 HS
DJ Byrnes's picture

Ha, yeah. What Sherman did probably would have had him sent to federal prison in 1964.

Californian by birth, Marionaire by the Grace of President Warren G. Harding.

BuckFly's picture

"Grant stood by me when I was crazy, and I stood by him when he was drunk, and now we stand by each other."
-Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman
 

+9 HS
Johnny Ginter's picture

i need to tell you guys something. i know more about william tecumseh sherman than you do. i just do. i know almost every facet of his life, have read hundreds of his letters, both public and private, have read his autobiography and many, many biographies on him. i think he was a revolutionary general and was one of the first truly modern generals, in that he had an inkling of how to use propaganda and the press to his advantage while also avoiding catastrophic losses that marred grant's record as a general.

you should vote for john rankin.

sherman, while brilliant, was an adulterer, racist, and led a US army policy that essentially was designed to starve plains indians into submission while also nearly killing off all the wild bison in north america. he wasn't the devil, but compared to a guy who risked prison to personally help free 2000 slaves and help along many many more, i don't think this is even a debate. rankin was the better man and the better ohioan

throttlefinger's picture

Went to Rankin Elementary. Easy decision, Ginter. But thanks for the behind the numbers on America's first dicknose.

-3 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

Well I think dicknose is a wildly inappropriate thing to call someone who did after all do a lot of great things for the country. His first priority was always his men, and his country. Hard to call him a dicknose. 

Also I think even if he was a dicknose Benedict Arnold was the first.

+6 HS
dcviper's picture

Small World... I grew up on Greenwood Ave. (but went to St Sebastian and Perkins before moving down to Columbus)

ULuvLucy's picture

Didn't know this, so that's a buzzkill. Thankfully, my mockup bracket has Sherman facing off with Tecumseh and losing so I consider it some small vengeance.

BrutusBlock O

-1 HS
Johnny Ginter's picture

yeah, truthfully sherman is an incredibly complex and frustrating figure to study because some of the things that he did are easier to feel good about if he wasn't a gigantic asshole but... well, he was a gigantic asshole.

AngryWoody's picture

In his entire march to the sea he only had to kill 600 people. Even when he burnt Columbia there were zero deaths. He fought a mostly bloodless kind of warfare. I'd rather warfare involve stealing some chickens and burning some barns than the utter chaos and death that battles like Gettysburg, Shiloh and the like. I know John Rankin helped free 2000 slaves. And I know you can argue that William Sherman didn't care about freeing the slaves, but his actions resulted in a lot more free slaves than Rankin's did (That's not to diminish anything Rankin did).

I know the bad things he did as well (IE when he abandoned the slaves following the army, what he did to the native Americans, some of his troops worse exploits during the march to the sea ), but at the end of the day northern victory in a mostly bloodless way, freeing hundreds of thousands of slaves, and generally being a badass makes William T. Sherman the clear choice in my mind.

Our Honor Defend!

+2 HS
Johnny Ginter's picture

i completely disagree that he fought a "mostly bloodless" kind of warfare. though it pales in comparison to the grant versus lee in viriginia, the atlanta campaign still had a combined total of about 65,000 casualties. his foolhardy attack on kenesaw mountain was a disaster. it IS remarkable that so few people were killed during the march to the sea and that the union army (mostly) behaved itself as much as an army with a directive of causing a "devastation, more or less relentless" can cause, but that really wasnt sherman's goal.

and frankly, neither was freeing slaves. obviously sherman's actions caused the freeing of many, many slaves in georgia (although more like 10-20k, not hundreds of thousands), but the guy was a bigot and also tried to convince slaves to stay on their plantations rather than follow his army. i dont begrudge him that, because he was right, having a massive slave army trailing his own was a huge security and logistical risk, but sherman also didnt really care about what happened to them either way.

i dunno. sherman was a logistical and strategic genius, and understood innately what war was becoming. but given the opportunity, ill look up to and vote for the guy who made the right moral choice about black people in america and risked his livelihood to fight against a brutal wrong even when most of the rest of the country (including sherman, who detested abolitionists) thought his actions were criminal

AngryWoody's picture

I will close with this.

He was still a badass.

Our Honor Defend!

BuckFly's picture

“You people of the (SEC) don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the (BigTen). They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it… Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The (BigTen) can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.”

-Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman (24 December 1860) 

 

+19 HS
DJ Byrnes's picture

holy shit

Californian by birth, Marionaire by the Grace of President Warren G. Harding.

M Man's picture

That's Uncle Billy.

I'm glad that the Selection Committee didn't pit Tecumseh versus William Tecumseh Sherman in the first round.

 

+2 HS
bedheadjc's picture

Holy shit, indeed. Wonder why this quote isn't used more often when discussing the CW.

+2 HS
AngryWoody's picture

William T is my Ohioan hero. I'm picking him over anyone.

Our Honor Defend!

+1 HS
DLJad's picture

There is a certain eloquence in "truth-speak" lost on the current occupiers of Washington, DC. Putin would be soiling himself if he had to answer to Uncle Billy!

+3 HS
Jason Priestas's picture

Someone born in 1820 was a racist? I find that...hard to believe.

And if we're being truthful, the majority of this bracket is likely filled with adulterers, yet most were smart enough not to put that fact in their autobiography and letters.

While Rankin may have been more noble than Sherman in some areas, Sherman accomplished more. It's as simple as that.

Johnny Ginter's picture

the point is that i find the person who was born in a racist society and then recognized it for what it was as he fought to undermine it more impressive than someone who was born in a racist society, stayed racist, and ended up on the right side of history because of his infuriation at secession.

sherman accomplished "more" (if we can even quantify that) because the military gave him the means to. as a civilian sherman was mostly unremarkable, if not the utter failure that grant was. rankin didn't have a gigantic federal apparatus propping him up because hell, he was fighting against it. if the civil war had been about shoes instead of slavery, sherman's actions wouldn't have changed one iota. was he a brilliant general and a legitimate genius? yes. was he a great man? hell no.

also i don't know that anyone can handwave away being complicit in indian genocide, sooooooo

AndyVance's picture

Ah, but there's the rub: you're discounting Sherman's accomplishments out of hand because they were military accomplishments as opposed to some great humanitarian venture. Saying "Sherman accomplished 'more' because the military gave him the means to," is like saying "Jack Welch was a great CEO because GE gave him the means to do so." Sherman was a great general because he was a great general. By your own words, he was a genius - let's not dismiss that because he was a military genius instead of a mathematical genius or something else less... bloody.

Sherman was a lot of things - you've outlined many of the less savory of those - but at his chosen vocation, there were few better. Same can be said of General Grant - people are fond of pointing out his failings, but the fact was that Grant succeeded where literally dozens before him had failed. You may not find that quite as noble as Rankin (and he was pretty freaking noble, I'll grant you), but that's perhaps why something like "greatness" is so subjective, I suppose.

+3 HS
niblick's picture

strong bracket, but anyone that beat that ass in the south like Sherman should be the defacto winner automatically

+4 HS
bucked up's picture

Even if sherman was a racist his actions in battle were still crucial to ending slavery. And there are too many important people throughout history who were adulterers for that to be an issue

+6 HS
collards's picture

Curtis LeMay - russia back down from him and not Kennedy during the Missle crisis. I don't think the younger folks remember him. His planning went a very long way in defeating Japan too.

Collards

+3 HS
NorthernOhioBuckeye's picture

Curits LeMay was a no nonsense general that believed, like Sherman and Grant, that if you are going to wage war, wage total war. Make the enemy beg for peace. When LeMay assumed command in the Pacific theater, the B-29's were largely ineffective in their bombing campaigns over Japan due to the high altitude that they flew through. When they tried to hit their targets from such a high altitude, the jet stream blew the bombs off target making them fall far from the target. 

LeMay addressed this right away by changing tactics to carpet bomb Japanese cities from low altitudes and using incendiary bombs that would create large firestorms and wipe out munition manufacturing in the cities. This style of bombing reduced Japans ability to resupply their forces during the war making it easier on the Army and Marines tasked with clearing the Pacific Islands of their Japanese occupiers.

General LeMay is one of the greatest Generals of WWII that barely gets recognized with the likes of Eisenhower and Patton to contend with.

+6 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

By the time the firebombing campaign started the Japanese merchant shipping fleet was destroyed & the island nation was for all intents & purposes cut off from the outside supplies upon which it relied. Absent the bombings the dispersed manufacturing would have just sat unused as there were no raw materials to process in the first place.

The real legacy of LeMay is a grossly skewed belief in the efficacy of strategic bombing. His policies ultimately hurt the nation's warfighting capabilities during the 50's & 60's.

Somehow 11W managed to have him face off in the first round against the only person in the bracket that might actually influence me to vote for LeMay.

 

+2 HS
Abe Froman's picture

Responsible for more deaths than Fat Man and Little Boy.  No question.

Basking in the wake of mediocrity.....

+1 HS
VintonCountyBuck's picture

I never realized that Bert and Nicky ever actually killed anyone.

“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.” 

+2 HS
Jason Priestas's picture

LeMay wanted to nuke the hell out of Russia in 1949, which if you're going to nuke Russia, that's when you want to do it, not later when they can respond with nukes of their own.

AndyVance's picture

There is a reason why Woody Hayes held men like George S. Patton and Curtis LeMay in the highest regard, and in part it was because they held a singular focus on victory, and could not stand the notion of losing. As with General Sherman in this bracket, both men were/are criticized for the perception that their methods were overly brutal or heartless, but the rationale is the same: war is typically not of our own choosing in the western world, and if you are going to be drawn into it, you'd damn well better win.

Had Patton and LeMay had their way re: Russia, what a different world we might live in today...

+1 HS
Abe Froman's picture

Just plain old common sense!  Why wait until they get their own?  I do like Johnny's historical look at these guys.  Such a conundrum when we examine the times these people lived in and compare them with our own values.  Even VintonCountyBuck took time out from a good old fashioned cock fight to comment on here (I jest VC Buck, I am no better being from Meigs County).  

Basking in the wake of mediocrity.....

+2 HS
VintonCountyBuck's picture

Lol. @Froman

“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.” 

+1 HS
collards's picture

John Brown really wasn't an ohian. If he were, he would be at the top of the list for importance besides Grant.

Collards

-1 HS
BucksfanXC's picture

Ohio has produced so many presidents and they span the spectrum. Taft has to be considered one of the best presidents ever, Harding one of the worst.

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

+2 HS
flying-banana's picture

After seeing Grant, Sherman, John Brown, and Rankin it appears Ohio has a long standing rivalry with the SEC that goes back to before football.

+6 HS
Go1Bucks's picture

Arrgghhh!  Down with the SEC!

Go Bucks!

NorthernOhioBuckeye's picture

On August 5, 1945, Brigadier-General Paul Tibbets personally selected the Enola Gay — he named it after his mother — off the B-52 assembly line.

I would like to point out that this was a few years before the B-52 was developed. The Enola Gay was a B-29 Superfortress, a four engine piston driven plane built by the Boeing corporation in the early 1940's. 

+4 HS
DJ Byrnes's picture

Good look, person who clearly is more knowledgeable than me. Fixed it.

Californian by birth, Marionaire by the Grace of President Warren G. Harding.

NorthernOhioBuckeye's picture

Not a problem. I am somewhat of a WWII history buff. The advances in technology during the war was amazing and the B-29 was a perfect example of this. This plane was so far ahead of the other large bombers of the day. It's development almost bankrupted the Boeing corporation. It is a facsinating story if you every care to read about it. If I remember correctly, it was the single most expensive weapon of the war followed by the development of the Atomic bomb.

+2 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

Thanks dad. 

Note: I'm kidding. But seriously you might be my dad.

+1 HS
spqr2008's picture

The really crazy part is that it was only 8 years until the B-52 was developed, and we're still using a plane which first flew for the Air Force in 1954.

JakeBuckeye's picture

If Warren G. doesn't win this whole tournament, I riot.

-3 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

Thomas Edison is going to be a tough out. As is Halle Berry. Berry vs Harding I might have to skip voting.

M Man's picture

It is so totally unfair, that half the high schools in Ohio are "________ Harding."

Go1Bucks's picture

As a Mason, I have to vote for all 3 President Brothers and successful Ohio bred Patriots

Go Bucks!

+1 HS
Devin1024's picture

Let us all take time to thank William Howard Taft for stealing a portion of our income before we ever see it.

+3 HS
Go1Bucks's picture

And FDR who will take even more, that we were suppose to see, that will eventually be diverted

Go Bucks!

+6 HS
Firedup's picture

He is the only person in United States history to serve as President of the United States and as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

I am sorry but how is this accomplishment only worthy of an 8 seed??  The most accomplished Statesmen in the country for personal achievement and intellect in our Nation's history since the founding fathers is a lowly 8 seed.  A travesty committed by the selection committee.  I demand to see the Seed list 1-64!!!

"Making the Great State of Ohio Proud!" UFM

+5 HS
Go1Bucks's picture

How come no play-in matchups? Lol

Go Bucks!

+1 HS
jedkat's picture

HOW is general LeMay losing? He radically changed bombing tactics in the pacific, initiated, unintentionally, the Berlin Air Lift and reorganized the Strategic Air Command from a bumbling mess, when he joined in 1948, to the nuclear powerhouse that it became.

“The teams that don’t respect their coaches and don’t trust their coaches are the teams that go .500"
~Zach Boren

+4 HS
OSU2002Grad's picture

Tecumseh should win this bracket. But he won't.

 

Had it not been for the arrogant stupidity of his brother, Tenskwatawa (the Prophet), Tecumseh would have succeeded in his mission to form an amalgamation of tribes to defeat continued Western expansion by the white settlers. While Tecumseh was away continuing his recruitment, his brother engaged in battle at Tippecanoe with William Henry Harrison and was soundly defeated. The amalgamation lost the faith and Tecumseh had no choice but to align with the British in the War of 1812.

 

This was a great man. With great vision. And a truly noble cause. Brought down by a drunken buffoon he called brother.

+3 HS
OSU2002Grad's picture

And there is literally no reason why he should lose to Warren Harding next round except that DJ has manipulated the board into being somehow convinced that Marion's own was something other than a philandering fool struck by good fortune.

+6 HS
OSU_ALUM_05's picture

Even if you're a terrible President, you're still among the handful of most significant people in the history of United States.  The seeding in this bracket is made for upsets.

jhart's picture

You all should vote for McKinley because he is my great-great-great-great uncle.

If that's not a good enough argument I don't know what is.

+1 HS
Johnny Ginter's picture

holy crap how is custer winning anything, I DEMAND A RECOUNT

"Under Sheridan's orders, Custer took part in establishing Camp Supply in Indian Territory in early November 1868 as a supply base for the winter campaign. Custer led the 7th U.S. Cavalry in an attack on the Cheyenne encampment of Black Kettle—the Battle of Washita River on November 27, 1868. Custer reported killing 103 warriors; estimates by the Cheyenne of their casualties were substantially lower (11 warriors plus 19 women and children)"

cool

PittBuckeye's picture

BUTTTTTTT have you ever played Custers last revenge? I believe it was Atari or one of those antiques. And purely due to that I believe he has to get past round 1.

+1 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

BUTTTTTTT have you ever played Custers last revenge? I believe it was Atari or one of those antiques. And purely due to that I believe he has to get past round 1.

Oakland Buckeye's picture

Guessing Johnny is part Cheyenne??

Johnny Ginter's picture

in the video game custer's revenge, you rape a tied up indian woman. so there's that.

M Man's picture

One of the very finest and least-appreciated heroes of the Battle of Gettysburg.

As much as the Confederate attacks on the Union left flank -- defendend by troops under Col. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain -- became the stuff of American military legend (Little Round Top), the defense of the union right flank under Custer and the 1st Michigan Cavlary was just as instrumental in the union victory.

I'm not real clear about Custer/Ohio.  But of course nobody liked my idea about Charles Woodson/Ohio either.

I have now killed any chances that Custer had of advancing.

The Custer statute; in Monroe.  Monroe, Michigan.  Custer's hometown:

 

+2 HS
Go1Bucks's picture

I felt bad for you so gave you a plus one, just to keep your State up North spirit intact.

Go Bucks!

Normal Buck's picture

Not to be a jerk, but Custer was a cavalry commander - not calvary.

+1 HS
Johnny Ginter's picture

as disappointed as i am about rankin and chase not doing better, i'm hopeful that tecumseh or taft end up rolling fools at the end of this thing

AngryWoody's picture

Lol Johnny, you're really getting into this.

Our Honor Defend!

Johnny Ginter's picture

well i am a social studies teacher

PittBuckeye's picture

I'd be arguing seeding more than anything else if I was you. A president is a tough out for anybody. 

+1 HS
smithwessonBuckeye's picture

I hope Tecumseh wins soo bad. I remember reading his poem in the fifth grade in some book we had in our library (circa 1995) and being obsessed with him since. 

bukyze's picture

I honestly don't know much about American history.  I recently read Lincoln's book "Team of Rivals", which was phenomenal, but nothing else since high school.  I appreciate learning a few things reading the comments here, and the captions for each nominee.  I'm slowly starting to enjoy history a little bit more.  If anyone has any particular favorite books, please share.  

+1 HS
BuckFly's picture

A must read about the #4 seed, Tecumseh, A Sorrow In Our Heart: The Life Of Tecumseh , by Allan W Eckhert.

This is a tremendous book about Ohio history.  If you do not like it, I will refund your money. 

+2 HS
bukyze's picture

Thanks, Buckfly - it'll be the next book I purchase.

lvccacamcrca's picture

You have to go with a President...............I'm sorry

+1 HS
lvccacamcrca's picture

By the way, it is hard to believe that Custer is ahead of Curtis Lemay ..................check the bio Lemay did more for this country by accident than Custer ever accomplished outside of getting wasted by the Indians

+1 HS
BuckFly's picture

The #7 seed, Custer, played a critical role in the Battle of Gettysburg.  Maj. Gen. J.E.B. Stuart's 4000 man cavalry division was out sightseeing the Pennsylvania countryside with the main goal of attacking the Union army from the rear.  While significantly outnumbered, Custer's cavalry unit mounted a charge against Stuart's division, causing them to retreat and thus saved the Union's rear flank, and allowed the Union to complete the victory at Gettysburg.  However, I still cannot vote for Custer, but not because he his actions led to a horrific defeat at the Battle of Little Big Horn.  While leading his charge of Michigan men against Stuart, Custer was heard shouting "Come on, you Wolverines!".  Seriously, what son of Ohio would ever state such a thing?

 

+6 HS
AndyVance's picture

Major props to you for pointing out Custer's Civil War service. Most folks who hold only a passing notion of history know Custer's name only because of the slaughter at Little Big Horn, and completely forget that he was an apparently effective cavalry officer in the Appomattox Campaign, as well as the aforementioned Battle of Gettysburg.

+2 HS
40 Degrees North's picture

I am surprised by General Curtis LeMay losing here. A potential LeMay-Sherman second round matchup intrigued me. Bombs Away vs. Scorched Earth.

"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."--Curtis LeMay

"If they want eternal war, well and good. We accept the issue, and will dispossess them and put our friends in their place."--William Tecumseh Sherman

 

+2 HS
Abe Froman's picture

Couldn't agree more.  I think that many people vote for the name and not the accomplishments.  Look, it think Halle Berry is hotter than almost anyone, but she is an actress.  She is not nor has she ever defended Ohio or the U.S.  A good way to think of the military choices are "if you had an army of Choice A fighting an Army of Choice B, who would win?"  You have to base it on their accomplishments and not their name.  

Basking in the wake of mediocrity.....

hetuck's picture

Custer May get the pub, but Sheridan would have been a more worthy choice. If for nothing more than the quote, "If I owned Hell and Texas, I would rent Texas and live in Hell."

Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

Vince Lombardi

+3 HS
Homey1970's picture

WTF, Lemay is the only fucking Buckeye on this bracket and HE IS LOSING to a cautionary tale with *ichigan roots!

http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/106462/g...

   

+1 HS
ULuvLucy's picture

Somewhere along the way, the collection of comments giving more info about LeMay have changed my vote to his side. Let's do this!

Him also being an OSU engineer is like, huuuuge props to my people.

BrutusBlock O

jedkat's picture

I mean, c'mon...He's Dr. Strangelove in the flesh.

“The teams that don’t respect their coaches and don’t trust their coaches are the teams that go .500"
~Zach Boren

+2 HS
M Man's picture

General Turgidson?

Or General Ripper?

 

dcviper's picture

In case anyone cares, Clarence Darrow did not actually win in Tennessee v. Scopes. Scopes was convicted and fined $100. The case was appealed to the Tennessee Supreme Court, which rejected all of Darrow's assertions, but ordered the case to be nol. prossed because Scopes was no longer teaching in the state.

Art Harrell's picture

voted General Curtis Lemay--my self being ex U.S.A.F. Curtis last of the bad ass Generals

and he promoted the M-16 as the universal weapon for all branch's of the armed forces in

America- Go Bucks

+2 HS
741's picture

This is officially the best and coolest thing ever published by 11W. 

Bootsy Collins is an Ohioan? Wow!