Jim Heacock will be announced as a support staff or administrative staff member and offer assistance to the full time staff in any capacity. Gotta believe Meyer is bringing him in to be another eye in the sky for this young defense and defensive staff. This is good news :)
Ed. If this is your information, please be as specific as possible about where you got it. If not, please cite a source or include a link when you make forum posts like this. Passing it off as your own or lifting news from other sites is a violation of 11w commenting policy.
I think this surprises me. But good news all around. We had some great defenses under Heacock!
I like it, good move URB!
Yes. By far my favorite assistant that has left the program. Class guy, and we obviously missed him last year. Welcome back coach.
Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".
Nice, good to see JH back.
Good move. He seems like a guy that will be there as long as OSU will have him. It will be good to have some continuity once Fickell and Withers inevitably take HC jobs elsewhere.
I was thinking this may have been a move in anticipation of losing Fickell after this season. Although I don't know what it says about Withers
We will never be that lucky. Michigan State may take him in some capacity. They already showed us they do not care if they score again.
kvs
coach heacock made our great defenses what they were over the years...pumped that hes back involved with the program
Yep, like it a lot. Proven experience.
Hopefully we can get back to the NC style defense of 02' but still play fast and athletic.......or at least back to how we played with hawk and schlegel and carpenter......
I am just trying to understand the new role. Obviously, Coach Meyer has something in mind, but what will/can he do? Is he going to be part of the unlimited recruitment staff, texting kids 24/7? Or is this more of an Asst. AD focused on football operations? Or is he going to coach coaches on how to coach?
Will only work in football related stuff not recruiting. Think of it more like grad assistant position but with a guy who has a really really really good resume :)
Great add. Source?
Can't trust me lol can't really say but look for it to be announced this week.
Lol. That's cool. I'm really glad they're getting him back involved. I was bummed to see him let go...our defense was so good with him.
good move
It's a great move, the only reason he wasn't included on the staff when Meyer first arrived is because supposedly he isn't thrilled about recruiting. Just as an x's and o's guy though he's fantastic.
You know there are drugs to take care of all the worry that you people suffer from.EggerSmith has gone and bought us all the Urb we will ever need.Keep calm and buck'em all. GO BUCKS!
I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.
Any speculation that Withers and/or Fickell are soon to be in position for a head job elsewhere and this is preparing for backfill?
This is the thing that came to my mind first and Urban is wanting his future DC on campus early. Whether Withers or Fickell get head coaching jobs or make lateral moves, the defense is covered. It just really seems strange to bring on another coach at this time without something else involving Withers or Fickell. Time will tell.
Whether they do or not it would be a no bc Urban's first quality in a coaching candidate is ability to recruit. Heacock is a great coordinator however he didnt do much recruiting during the Tressel era when in comparison to Fickell, Taver, etc. I dont think we can doubt Urban's ability to find good coaches for his staff over the years esp ones that can recruit really well.
I'm assuming you saw this on the scout message boards?? But if true, it'll be a great addiction. Loved Heacock.
Amongst other places trying to verify along with friends I have in Columbus, but scout is not where I heard it first.
This is absolutely phenomenal news! He was the architect of our dominant defenses during his time as DC. Let's take a look at the numbers as far as where our defense ranked under his tenure:
RUSH D PASS D SCORING D TOTAL D
2005 1 43 5 5
2006 15 30 5 12
2007 3 1 1 1
2008 18 25 6 14
2009 7 13 5 5
2010 3 8 5 4
2011 (tatgate) 50 14 27 19
Besides the disastrous 2011 season, those are pretty damn good numbers. NEVER finished lower than 6th in scoring defense. I'm super excited to have another pair of experienced eyes to help with the defense, whatever his role ends up being.
The "architect" was really Pagac, not Heacock.
Now if we can only find a way to lure Jim bollman back to be offensive coordinator once we loose herman to a h.c. . Job.
Edit: i accidentally fat fingered this entire comment on my smartphone.
"Get him a body bag, Yeah!"
This is excellent news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YES! I know Heacock didn't want to leave last year and he is a true buckeye. Glad he is back with the program! Congrats coach!
Sorry but i think you are incorrect. Heacock didn't want to stay on and was quoted as being burned out. I remember reading reports that Meyer was interested in keeping him on but he wasn't up for the grind. This would make sense if they were able to find a position that allows him to help with X's and O's without the grind of recruiting. Regardless couldn't be happier to have him back in any role.
Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".
Here's the quote and the link for the article. It's from an interview in the Columbus dispatch.
But there was never a sense that Meyer owed him anything, he said.
“He had in mind what he wanted in terms of a coaching staff and, like I said, I was at that point where my passion was a little bit down, where I was unsure what I wanted to do,” Heacock said. “The way it worked out, I think him and I both felt good about it.”
My interpretation is urban said I want guys to go out like their hair was on fire and he wasn't up to it. Why else do you let Heacock go with his résumé only to bring him back a year later in a lesser role.
http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2012/07/08/heacock-relieved-to-take-break-from-grind-of-coaching.html
Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".
EDIT: 3g failure...
Do we have a trustworthy source for this?
Hope, hope, hope this is true! This would be a great addition to the staff (and provide some continuity if/when Withers & Fickell move on).
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
I am pretty sure that Heacock gave Meyer his first paying coaching gig somewhere in Illinois. I was real surprised that he was not retained, and I had to imagine that was Heacock's decision, not Meyer's. I think that it is great news for the Buckeyes.
Yep. Illinois State, '88 and '89 coaching OLB then QB/WR.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
I'm thinkin he will take over as DC when Withers and Fickell get head coaching jobs.
can we get a staff update on this please, this is the validity equivalent to a tarot card reading
Front page - nice work spooner.
This is great news, this is going to be very beneficial in polishing up the Silver Bullets.
"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes
yeah im not sure what his title will be i just hope he helps fick and withers grow as teachers of the gam- understanding schemes, blitzes and opposing offenses. to me the bottom line is that since heacock left the defense was never an uncertainty like it has been, even though the bullets finished strong. lets be honest, in most games defense wasn't a worry with heacock
Can't hurt, it can only help and after last years lackluster defensive performance we can use all the help we can get.
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men
I know I'm going to get downvoted to hell for this, but I think the guy was a little overrated. We brought in some of the best defensive recruits in the conference over the last decade, and he benefited greatly from several games a year vs. some decent at best offenses in the B1G. Then, when we played offenses like Florida, LSU, and USC, we got beat up pretty bad (and those Florida and LSU offenses weren't that great, but both did much better than they should have against a championship game-caliber defense). If we had been able to hold on to Dantonio, we would've beaten LSU and been significantly more competitive against Florida IMO. What he was able to do against that Miami offense in 03 was nothing short of miraculous.
Nothing personal against the guy, I just think he was overrated.
No downvote here. I actually agree in that our defenses have been too talented to cover space. I want dantonio back.
i think the schemes were there, we got beat up front, also in those games we dealt with turnovers, game changing injuries
I'm not going to downvote you, and I'll agree that the defense was a bit of a letdown in those games, but I'm not sure it's fair to say that the defense got "beat up pretty bad" in all of those games.
Of the big games that you mention, the 2009 Texas game is the only one in which the Ohio State defense gave up more than 400 yards. Total offense for the opponent in the other games ranges from 300-370.
Alabama's defense this year was truly great. Yet it surrendered two 400+ yard games; LSU gained for 453, and TA&M gained 418. Georgia gained 394 in the SEC Championship Game. If this great defense is allowed three hiccups in one season, then I'll allow Heacock the same number over the course of a several seasons.
Great post Brutus.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
It may be unfair to compare, I just saw what the 2002 Title team was able to do against arguably the best offense of the BCS era, and then I saw 2 defenses in 2006 and 2007 (that were as talented as the 02 team, if not moreso IMO) give up 79 points to two decent but not great offenses. Total yardage is not what I use as an indicator: it looked to me like both Florida and LSU let off the gas in the 2nd half of those games at some point so it wasn't as bad as it could've been.
Heacock had his share of impressive defensive performances (Oregon, Arkansas come to mind), but I think a school like us could've done better all those years.
The problem is had/have with Heacock is the lack of aggression on defense and the lack of adjustments. We had a lot of talented players on our team and we used them 80% of the time in guarding space. The conservative nature of his play calling style relied on the lack of execution of opposing offenses. Essentially it was the mantra that "we don't think you can do it" and not "we're going to stop you from doing it." And it was the former mantra that caused us to make very little in the way of adjustments. This caused us many close games with teams that were efficient on offense, despite us having talent levels well above our opposition, but to his credit, despite the close games, he won most of them. But then again, there were games where we made very pedestrian offenses look like world beaters and there was no reason for it other than we were too stubborn to adjust and try to stop them from doing what they were doing, we just kept expecting them to stop themselves or drop off execution.
That said, it's hard to trash a guy who's defensive prowess was a large part of our sustained success. He's clearly a percentages and statistics kind of guy who plays the odds and brings a defense that is fundamentally solid and knows the game. His defenses were rarely out of position in his scheme and everyone knew their role very well. There are certainly worse hires to make, but if I could pick (and I can't), I'd want someone calling defense like Dantonio did.
Yes please....more of this. There's a reason why OSU's defense was so good 2003-2010...and it wasn't Fickell. Sorry for all of you who want to think it was...bc you're wrong. #52-49 vs IU...all that needs said...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
You're presenting a false dilemma in an apparent effort to discredit Fickell. It is possible to acknowledge both Heacock's role as DC during those years as well as Fickell's contributions to the defense. As far as "52-49 ... all that needs to be said" I respectfully disagree. The turnaround the defense made after that game was a critical part of the 12-0 season. The Buckeye D was one of the top rated defenses in the country in November. The 49 points against IU were painful to watch, but it is not the whole story, and if LF has to take the blame for IU, does he not get any credit for what followed?
^^^There's a key part you leaving out of that and it's because Urban became more involved after that debacle against IU. I'm not trying to start the "fire Fickell " business like it was last year btw. I loved Fick as a player and do as a coach...but you'd almost have to blind not to see the systemic problem with the defensive side of the ball last year. Heacock will not only be evaluating talent, he'll be coaching folks. Not to mention...I'm going out on a limb and saying Fick will be the first to take a HC job. You all heard it from me first...mark my words.
Look at these two links...may change your mind...well...may be.
http://www.thelantern.com/sports/urban-meyer-on-ohio-state-defense-i-wish-i-had-the-answer-1.2926991#.UT3zX9a38qE
http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2012/10/16/meyers-presence-motivates-defense.html
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
But what exactly does it mean to say that Urban became "more involved"? Are you suggesting that Urban took over DC duties for Fickell? Or maybe for Withers? Was he calling defenses, scouting opposing offenses? Or did he just give urgency and a unified goal to the Withers/Fickell two-headed monster? Unless you are part of the staff, it would be very hard to answer those questions, and with no answers to those questions, anything we say about Fickell's role in the shortcomings of the D --as well as its turnaround-- is unfounded speculation.
I'm not going to argue/debate with you about what I know or don't... I read the articles... if you do, then you'll see what I mean (not to mention...if you look in 11W archives...you'll find Kyle's weekly article emphasizing Urban becoming more involved with the defense last year after the IU game). It wasn't like I'm conjuring this up out of the clear blue...hence the articles...read them...educate yourself. So many of us just go off of the 12-0 record and that's that. The defense looked like trash against Cal, IU, and I'd even say at times against Neb (did they look better in the last few games...well of course but will that continue with the loss of the entire front 7 and one DB...that question is yet to be answered). That style of play in those aforementioned games like IU and Cal won't be tolerated in year two by UFM...bank that AHH Saturday.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
I appreciate the invitation to "educate [my]self" and read, or rather re-read, the articles you linked. Neither gives any indication that Urban was involved in the D in any more than a motivational role. I do not, and did not dispute that. I am not saying that LF is blameless or that he is an elite DC. I just think your criticism of Fickell is overly broad and without foundation, and essentially boils down to this: everything bad about the D was Fickell's fault, everything good about the D was because of Urban.
This part isn't what I'm doing...I'm just saying, he's the head DC and things better change this year (those articles have UFM quotes in there...if your read them...you should know I have a foundation...not to mention the style of play, ie tackling is solely on coaching technique. If not, then those players diving like they're on EA sports College football 2013 should be benched. They play how you coach them). Sorry if my opinion on Fickell makes you uneasy...remember what I said about the end of the year (Fick didn't seem the same without Heacock on the sidelines at times last year...and I'm not sure Fick stays at the end of the year if Heacock has to step into more of a role than a consultant/observer). If that happens...look out for Fick's future...it's a fact Urban wasn't happy with the defenses performance last year and frankly I wasn't either. OSU is not a bend don't break Oregon style defense...and I never want them to be categorized as one of those...
http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2013/03/10/defense-can-overcome-departures.html
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
The whole source citing thing is getting a little out of control... I understand it is 11W policy, but if I see something on the crawl on ESPN I'm not writing "source is the ESPN crawl". I'll post the info and that's it. Not trying to be a pain, but I think it's crazy to source every bit of information we get. If it is from a pay wall on ESPN, Scout, 247, or Rivals then I understand.
Maybe it's the journalist in me coming out, but I'll respectfully disagree. While it appears the info in this thread is accurate, these types of claims - without sourcing or at least a comment that identifies the intel as from a personal source that will remain anonymous - are often wild-ass guesses disguised as news.
Sourcing is important in maintaining the credibility of the info we get on this site - if you read something on 11W, generally it's bankable information. Not so on so many other sites/forums.
Moreover, sourcing/attribution is important so we as posters are not unintentionally ripping off someone else's work, which is wrong. It's not that difficult to say "per ESPN," or, "I saw this on First Take/Sportscenter/etc."
While I think sourcing is definitely desirable in this context, I don't see why it should be required. If you read 11W commenting policy, I can't see where the OP has violated it. Unless he/she is being untruthful, the information they shared can't be shown to have come from a premium source.
This is only forum post and the OP is not purporting to be a journalist. There is a level of acceptable risk in taking a forum post as the truth. I think most of us are smart enough to take these posts with a grain of salt until they are eventually verified or sourced.
For the record, I'm not of the opinion that the OP did or did not violate the commenting policy. That was not the point of my comment. I'm simply disagreeing with the distinguished gentleman about the importance of sourcing your intel - it is important, for obvious reasons and those already mentioned.
Yes, Forum posts should in and of themselves be held to a level of suspicion, but as with recent threads on topics such as OSU vs. Clemson in Nashville, unverified rumor has a way of being taken at face value.
As I said, I very much agree that sourcing intel is important. Personally, I really wouldn't take a post of this sort as much more than rumor without it. However, I don't think that 11W policy or customary forum rules dictate that it is required here.
I was not trying to put words in your mouth about the 11W commentig policy. I was referring to the edited note on the original post. It would appear that staff believes the policy was violated. However, I am unsure why.
You cannot say something is definite without a credible source. The OP's definity is what is wrong. It would have been more apt to say "rumor is from ______ that Heacock will be added to the staff".
It's quite specific, and not attributed:
Yes, it would have been more apt to say that. But this is a forum post not a newspaper. What is it that requires that a statement of fact be sourced?
IMHO, it is nearly as incumbent on the reader as the poster to evaluate the factuality of the information. We are, after all, talking about an internet forum post.
@OSUStu, yes, but you shouldn't represent it as fact. He did not say "this is a rumor" like every other rumor thread does, to differentiate from factual information. Honestly when I read this a few days ago, I just assumed I missed some big news on Twitter because he was firm about it.
In general, on 11W, it's best to cite a source so people know what you mean: it's a fairly standard practice that helps differentiate facts from rumors. It's not required, but is generally done as a courtesy to other users.
It's not hard to say, "over on TOS, there's some rumors that...blah blah blah". Or per @BCastOzone, Heacock was at practice today, adding fuel to the rumors.
And looking back at the OP in this context, the statement "Jim Heacock will be announced as a support staff or administrative staff member and offer assistance to the full time staff in any capacity," is a statement of fact without any attribution.
The simple fix would have been to say, "I'm hearing from reliable sources close to the situation..." or some other qualifying statement. The OP did offer such clarification in the comments later, but the point is that the original post was a statement of fact with nothing to back it up.
Edit: Urbz beat me to the same thought :)
Great minds think alike! Go Bucks
This was announced on Scout's pay site last week from one of the mods/insiders. I believe it to be accurate. I was gonna post this info but I try to minimize the amount of stuff I post from other pay sites. But since it is up here already . . . . I'll confirm a source.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I saw this yesterday and some guy got scolded anyway for posting it.
The interwebz tough guy police will get you for posting rumors.
Tomorrow
They made me captain.
Commander and Chief of the interwebz tough guy police.
Tomorrow
I'd vote everyone up if I could
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=145&f=1079&t=11354258
Bill Greene of scout also commented saying that Heacock would not be an assistant. He has no desire to get back into the grind that coaches must do to be successful. He will be watching teams one or two weeks ahead of schedule and formulating a defensive gameplan. Basically a head start for Fick and Withers.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University