Eleven Warriors

Jason, no offense bro, but I HAVE NO, ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH "FRIENDS" IN ANN ARBOR.

That being said, will there be a "special guest referee" at the Rose Bowl half time parking lot brawl? I'll volunteer for 1 ticket to the game....putting in leave chit now...

(Seriously fellas, lighten up!)

Dean, great point. I remember after the 03 scUM game, people where calling for Tress to be fired. Sometimes it ain't pretty, but he wins.

All I want for Christmas is a Rose Bowl win.

I see what you're saying but I didn't say anything about telling people what to think/comment. We were all angry after Purdue, and that's fine. There's just no need to attack other commenters in a personal manner.

I don't see where a comment was made about telling other readers how to feel. Jason's saying if your behavior is out of line, there will be consequences, just like with anything. Challenging fellow readers to fights has nothing to do with how readers "feel." Has everything to do with losing control on an internet forum.

I think in regards to being angry about purdue and the state of the program, etc., he was making more commentary about certain articles and media opinions about ohio state's legitimacy than fan opinions on here. The talk about ohio state after the iowa game, especially in a win, was still very degrading for a team that accomplished what we have in a rebuilding year. At least from Doyel, and Matt Hayes and other pundits.

Mblog is only restricting new users to stop the trolls of opposing trolls. Frequent posters have no problem posting on the site.

That being said I bought my father and brother one of these and had them priority mailed for the Iowa game. They said they were a hit and wore them everywhere, even the Blackwell and Varsity club. I bought a UM and their 2 OSU gloves and they all had official stickers.
There are other sites and I have nothing invested with this one

www.tufglove.com

I've only felt the urge to post here a few times and I love the fact 11W allows me to add my 2 cents every once and awhile despite that. So, I hope I can continue to do so. I think the posts here are fantastic and the commenters for the most part are level-headed and honest, which is great.

That being said, is anyone ready for a playoff now that the bucks are in the "granddaddy of them all" one last time?

I'm cold.

Set our goals higher to what? Expecting a national championship every season?

I mentioned rebuilding because the team had to replace the winningest senior class in history and a core of the offense is made up of sophomores.

This season has been one of the more trying seasons in years and the Buckeyes are still looking at a 10 or 11 win year.

I do realize the Big Ten is down and winning it might not mean as much as it did 10 years ago, but the Buckeyes are right where many of us expected them to be: heading to Pasadena with a chance to use that game as a springboard towards a great 2010.

After reading the comments from that one thread and having witnessed similar ramblings before on this site, yeah, I agree that bans on douche bags and their flaming would be a good move.

That said, I wish Tress had Bill Belichick's balls of steel from the game last night. Ok, that decision to go for it on 4th and 2 from their own 28 probably wasn't a wise move in that situation, but it'd be nice to see that kind of confidence and guts from Tress every now and then. It's not gonna happen, but one can wish, as I was seeing flashbacks and wanting to pull my hair out during the Iowa game.

the problem with this is that Tress actually does do this from time to time, and it ALWAYS bites us in the ass

I will agree with your point that losing beanie is tough to replace but OSU lost 3 Lineman? Who did OSU lose that couldn't be replaced for the same or better production? Last year everyone was talking about how terrible the line was so how is that rebuilding? Its a yearly problem that tress has made the choice not to fix! At what point do you call it a choice and not rebuilding I mean we are coming up on nearly a decade of mediocre line play has every year been rebuilding?

2 Receivers? Did we lose Micheal Crabtree or Dez Bryant? I mean the 2 brians were decent receivers but nothing that needs rebuilding. I actually think Posey is better than both of those guys right now. And if we threw to Ballard more we could replace a slot guy like hartline very easily in my opinion.

Malcolm Jenkins is tough to replace for sure but as far as Laurinaitis and freeman I don't think we have downgraded with Rolle. Freeman was more of a threat rushing the passer but I think our d-line has more than made up for him being gone. Sideline to Sideline Rolle is much faster and teams can't seem to pass as easily on Rolle as Laurinaitis. Do we miss him as a run stopper? Maybe but with our d-line so experienced and getting in the back field I think our run defense is the same if not better so I don't see much of a dowgrade there do you?

Again no offence but to compare the buckeyes to the oklahoma offense rebuilding is apples and oranges.

1.) Bradford was sacked a total of 11 times in 470 passing attempts all year in 2008 so how do you compare our offense line rebuilding to that? I Mean can TP scramble 100 times better than Bradford? The answer is yes and he was sacked over 21 times in about 165 attempts.
(On a side note OU was said to maybe have one of the best O-Lines ever assembled last year not only by college scouts but also Pro Scouts who were worried about drafting Bradford since he wasn't touched in 2+ years.)

2.) Then to throw in replacing Sam Bradford for OU in the middle of a season not to the draft or graduation? How is that comparable? Who did OSU have to replace the comes close to the calibur of Bradford? He had one of the most prolific passing seasons in NCAA history last year. Our best player was Beanie and he was hurt most of the time and no where in the same league as bradford in importance.

3.) And lets not forget throwing in Gresham in your argument. I mean this kids going to miss THE ENTIRE YEAR and still projected top 10-15 pick as a Tight End! In the last 10 years of the draft 2 tight ends were drafted in the top ten and this kid may go in the top 10 without even playing!!!! Neither of the brians are even in the same league as this kid.

Again, if everyone takes the time to really look at what we have lost to the draft or graduation we are really not rebuilding considering what we have on the field this year. We lost 2 guys Beanie and Malcolm Jenkins that are tough to find replacements for I will agree with that.

Laurinaitis was a second round pick but yet every OSU fan thought we were watching the second coming of the Big Cat. He was a good linebacker but very easily replaced with the depth of OSU's recruiting at the LB spot.

The Big Ten in the dumps? Garbage conference? You're joking right? I've got two words for you: availability cascade. There's more depth in this conference than anyone thought there would be at the start of the season, which is why you have teams like NW and Purdue winning against the top programs. Purdue's record is not telling of the type of team they are. Did you happen to catch their game at Oregon (not to mention all their other close losses)? I guess that's the difference between watching games and watching scores.

If any conference is down this year it's the SEC. LSU is only ranked as high as they are based on the quality of their losses, not wins. They are horrible. Most other BCS programs would have at least the identical record with LSU's schedule. FL and AL, that's it. And even they aren't invincible like ESPN made them out to be earlier in the season.

I like the Big Ten's chances come bowl season.

The PAC-10 looks similar to the Big Ten, the Big East is as lopsided as usual, but with 8 teams, that's what you get. Everyone in the ACC continues to beat each other and the Big 12 is a one horse race. All of the other conferences continue to get better and it's not a coincidence.

Scholarship limitations and the internet allow parity to rule and it will continue to do so.

Do you really think there is a such thing as a dominant conference this year?

The only thing hurting the Big 10 right now is Michigan. (You know the team that beat the shit out of your Tebow/Urban Meyer-led Florida team two years ago in their bowl game?). Illinois is clearly an anomaly and picking on Indiana gives your statements even less cred. Every conference has its bottom.

They're not talking about anti-OSU commenters, just those who get into these ridiculous, immature back-and-forths that just flood the comments section. I agree with it too, it's annoying. Especially when it comes from regulars who should know better than to engage in it.

Now if we're being invaded by another fanbase, that's another story. The KSU thread last year was epic.

The thing about it is, if he wins those other 2 BCS titles, I get the impression that people would still be bitching about his coaching style. Bottom line is, what other coach has taken they team to 7 BCS bowls in 8 years? If they win this year he is 4-3 in the BCS. I'm sorry, it can ge aggrivating but it works and works very well. I guess if they played wide open full throttle all year, there may have been some huge scores, but there would've been many more mistakes as well and the record may be 7-4 or 6-5. But it's ok because in a couple of games we got 70 points. I guess I just don't understand what some people want.

I was working on a response to stu300osu and abandoned it for a bit to watch the Office episode where Michael goes to Ryan's business school and Jim uses the occasion of a bat in the ceiling to pretend that he's turning into a vampire for Dwight's benefit. The main reason this is awesome is because there's a short but powerful dose of Creepy Creed. Anyway, I see now that Jason's called out this foolishness a bit, but not nearly enough, and now there's some bonus wrongness and unreality to fisk. So: let's take this one by one, shall we? We'll start with the original post:

"(T)his isn’t even close to what you would call a “rebuilding” year for any team if they were returning some of the postions (sic) the buckeyes (sic) returned" - You mean like two All-World linebackers? An All-World cornerback? Two NFL receivers? A Heisman-caliber running back? A left tackle who, while a huge disappointment, still kept any sort of heir apparent from getting any real game experience?

"a complete dominant D-Line back (maybe 2 first round NFL picks on the same d-line)" - Well, sure, except that this was the unit that was supposed to allow us to hang on by our fingernails WHILE WE REBUILT the REST of the D. Find me ONE person who thought that D-line was one of the position groups that needed to be "rebuilt".

"2 returning at Safety" - One of whom was Anderson Russell.

"(A) QB that was the top recruit 2 years ago starting (and I don’t mean he is just back but he has significant time under his belt behind center) nearly his second full season" - This is so syntactically muddled that I hardly know where to begin, but I'll try. The people who gripe that Tressel has failed thus far to fully utilize TP's natural gifts are probably right, in the sense that to do so, Tressel would have had to install some sort of RichRod-style offense and used TP as a bigger, badder version of Pat White. I'm not about to say that there would have been anything WRONG with that, per se, but I'm damn sure that it's not at all what either Tressel or Pryor wanted from the get-go. This particular discussion could go on for hours/days/weeks/months, and has, in fact, but: Can we maybe get an explanation, now that TP's gone three weeks without a turnover and we've seen significant improvement in his judgment etc., how this doesn't fit in to the "rebuilding" meme? The kid is still, obviously, learning how to be an actual QUARTERBACK in a scheme that seeks balance, which fits nicely into the idea of a "rebuilding" team - what does stu300osu want? That's an actual question looking for an actual answer - what would satisfy you, stu300osu?

"(T)he O-Line has been the week (sic) link since the tressel (sic) regime has (sic) started" - Whaaa? Explain this, please. The Tressel "regime" began in 2001, and thus could only be said to have been ENTIRELY accountable as far as personnel/coaching since 2006, and we've had pretty badass rushing and passing offenses in some of those years that probably aren't ENTIRELY attributable to the awesomeness of our skill positions - so I'm interested to know exactly WHICH O-lines over the past nine seasons, and WHICH players on WHICH O-lines, year-to-year, that stu300osu "thinks" are/were subpar. And what proportion of responsibility for the subpar-ness is due to poor coaching and what proportion is due to recruiting errors (on the prior coaches' parts as well, please). Again, this is an actual question looking for an actual answer - if there's not an answer then stu300osu is just farting discontented and ill-informed words.

"(W)ith the big ten (sic) in the dumps doesn’t it say a tiny bit about Tressels (sic) program that its (sic) still a struggle to win it? Shouldn’t it be easy to write a ticket to the title game every year with a conference like this?" - I really don't know exactly what this means (a "struggle"? Are we supposed to win every single Big 10 game by multiple-touchdown margins?), but it's certainly ignorant of history. Exactly one school ever in the history of the conference has won more consecutive conference titles than this year's Buckeyes have, and that's another string of Buckeye teams. Should we beat Michigan Saturday, three of the five in a row will have been outright titles - an oddity, if not a statistical near-impossibility (somebody better at stats than me is gonna have to do the figurin'), in an era of 11 teams playing only eight conference games. Lest we forget, we were "only" Big Ten co-champs with Iowa in 2002, which doesn't seem to affect our enjoyment of the NATIONAL championship we won that year. Maybe that bothers you, stu300osu, but it doesn't bother me. We've lost just four conference games in five years, and not one of them has COST us either a league title or a "ticket to the title game". And what's up with this "every year" nonsense? We're supposed to be in the BCS Championship game EVERY YEAR or you're not happy? For Jebus' sake, man - the win against Iowa last Saturday means that we will have been to BCS bowls - the standard of excellence we're dealing with these days - in SEVEN of Tressel's nine years at OSU. Of the six so far, we've won three. THREE of them HAVE been "title game(s)", and we've won one of them - for the FIRST National Championship in over 30 years, I might add. Tressel, for all his faults, has done something more than simply "a good job with this program".

I'll just digress from the fisking for a moment to give everybody - maybe Joe, and others, can chime in if he/they want to - an "old guy" perspective: I turned 40 this year. I saw Archie play in the 'Shoe, even though I can barely remember it. I heard so much from the family and friends that brought me up to be a Buckeye about the glory days of the Woody era, but those were mostly done and gone by the time I was old enough to appreciate what was going on in the present. Some younger guys without an appreciation of what it was like during Woody's twilight and eventual implosion, Earle's tenure, and Cooper's early years (finished UNRANKED JC's 1st four seasons, including a 4-6-1 record his first year*) combined with his 2-10-1 vs. Michigan, might not understand: Tressel has returned us to a position where our program is one of the five or six that perennially PROJECTS power over the rest of the country whether the rest of the country, or espn.com, likes it or not. This is something that hasn't been true since the mid-70s. Earle and Cooper each had a few years here and there, but trust me - add The Senator's 7-1 (soon to be 8-1) record vs. Michigan to the seven BCS bowls, three National Championship bids (one successful), and it ought to be clear that we're experiencing a Golden Age of Ohio State football right now. AND one that's likely to continue for at least two more years.

*Imagine what it must feel like to absorb a 4-6-1 season...never mind, for TWO reasons: 1) there's no more ties anymore, and 2) that's just a little too close to imagining what it must be like to be a modern-day Michigan fan. HA!

Back to fisking - this time stu300osu's "responses" to Jason et.al.'s objections:

"I guess my point would be this is the time to be racking up national titles because the conference is in the toilet" - What?

"So to admit the big ten (sic) is not as good as 10 years ago and yet OSU is still having a lot of the same problems against lesser competition are we really moving our program forward by cheering going to a Rose Bowl that probably wouldn’t pick us if it didn’t feel obligated?" - Wow. That one "sic" is not enough to encompass how crazy jumbled-up this is, but I'll try to deal with the "ideas" expressed: "10 years ago" puts us beyond anything Tressel is responsible for, right? And, again: please explain what "a lot of the same problems" means - we've lost some games to inferior teams (and some to superior ones), that's true, but I'd be interested to know what the "same problems" are that both tie ALL of these "problems"/losses together AND can be pinned on Tressel, given that the timeframe precedes his tenure - not to mention that the Rose Bowl doesn't "feel" obligated to offer us a spot this year, the Rose Bowl IS, as a matter of fact, obligated to offer us the spot that we've EARNED by virtue of winning the games we needed to. And what's with this "probably wouldn't pick us" bullshit? How do you know THAT, stu300osu? Are you friends/family with anyone on the Rose Bowl selection committee, and thus in a position to say that they were only GIVING US ROSES last Saturday because they felt obligated to? Unless you can answer "yes", then - again - you're just farting words.

"We all know that Urban Meyer is going to struggle when he loses this core group of guys he has on his team right now but losing 6 games in four years and 2 national titles (with an SEC schedule including a conference championship) in that span is taking care of business" - What do you even mean, for fuck's sake? That Urban was able to TCB just because of this current crop of players, but we should exalt him over Tressel anyway because he's lost one fewer game than we have over four seasons? Or that when HE "struggles", as you claim to KNOW he will, that his "struggles" won't matter the way you "think" Ohio State's "struggles", as YOU define them, do? Are you even aware that Florida is dealing with an inexplicably anemic offense of its own this season? Again, what are you talking about?

(Actually, I see now that stu300osu cites eight losses for us "in that period of time". Whatever that period is. Starting from 2005 - Meyer's 1st season at Florida - he has nine losses overall [including an embarrassing bowl loss to Michigan], and Tressel has ten)

"Laurinaitis was a second round pick but yet (sic) every OSU fan thought we were watching the second coming of the Big Cat. He was a good linebacker but very easily replaced with the depth of OSU’s recruiting at the LB spot" - Really, stu300osu? You KNEW that our recruiting meant that there would be no drop-off AT ALL from losing two NFL linebackers, including the one you denigrate as a 2nd-rounder (and accuse "every (!) OSU fan" of being deluded about - including yourself, apparently, since it was "every OSU fan" who was deluded and you're ostensibly an "OSU fan") who's a legit candidate for NFL Rookie of the Year?

"(T)he 2 (sic) brians [sic] were decent receivers but nothing that needs [sic] rebuilding" - Again, both in the NFL.

"I actually think Posey is better than both of those guys right now" - well, good for you. Lots of people 'think' lots of things. Have you ever seen Posey make a block like Hartline did on Gonzo's catch-and-run TD @ Kinnick? Or block downfield like Sanzo? If you have, please point me to the plays where that happened. This is not to say that Posey sucks, but that he's young/inexperienced, and that right now his drops/penalties are about equal to his big plays.

"And if we threw to Ballard more we could replace a slot guy like hartline [sic] very easily in my opinion" - Yep, and if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, it'd be a Merry Xmas every day.

"Last year everyone was talking about how terrible the line was so how is that rebuilding?" - Um, because the (O-)line wasn't very good and we knew nothing at all about the line coming into this year other than that the only settled position was Brewster's? Can you maybe define your definition of the word "rebuilding"? Because - in the words of Inigo Montoya - I do not think it means what you think it means.

"Its (sic) a yearly problem that tress (sic) has made the choice not to fix!" - Okay...details, please, on how you KNOW this to be true - that Jim Tressel has taken a deliberate CHOICE to have a bad offensive line every single year of his tenure at Ohio State.

"Malcolm Jenkins is tough to replace for sure but as far as Laurinaitis and freeman (sic) I don’t think we have downgraded with Rolle" - Is there an "are concerned" - not to mention a couple commas - missing here? Anyway, the logic is impeccable - ONE unproven, inexperienced LB (no matter HOW well he's turned out with hindsight) is ABSOLUTELY the equal of TWO NFL draft picks.

Finally:"Again, if everyone takes the time to really look at what we have lost to the draft or graduation we are really not rebuilding considering what we have on the field this year. We lost 2 guys Beanie and Malcolm Jenkins that are tough to find replacements for I will agree with that." - Well, OK then! Glad that's settled, more missing commas aside!

I'm not going to bother with the ridiculous hypothetical (if that's even the right word - "fantastical" might be better) comparisons of us and Oklahoma.

Look - this is just an incredibly ignorant assessment of what's going on. I'm one of those who thought - BACK IN AUGUST - that Terrelle was going to make "the leap", whatever that means, and that we had an excellent chance to run the table, given that we had USC, PSU and Iowa in the 'Shoe - "rebuilding" year or not. I was proved wrong after USC, and adjusted my expectations accordingly. When Purdue Harbor happened, I was forced to adjust them yet again - and I realized that this is Tressel's youngest Buckeye team (arguably - 2004 MIGHT be in that discussion) yet, and that young teams sometimes lose games they shouldn't.

None of that is to say that the losses this year have been ACCEPTABLE, or that they bug me any less, but: to think that just a month ago we'd lost to Purdue, and that now we're headed to Pasadena...to me, that speaks well of both this team's resiliency and the job Tressel's done to get the season back on track. And if this is what qualifies as a rebuilding year around here, then we're in pretty good shape. Like the post title says: Enjoy the roses, already.

I was very frustrated during and immediately after this game because of what I perceived to be conservative play calling which allowed Iowa to get back in the game, but...

I soon realized that we were playing a 10th ranked, one-loss Iowa team that was ALSO one game away from an outright title and Rose Bowl Bid. Sure we were favored, but this wasn't Minnesota or Purdue... This was a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME against a top ten opponent! I mean if we win the ROSE BOWL by a field goal would anyone be pissed that we should have won by more?

Honestly, we exploited two of the best defenses in the nation, in two consecutive weeks. His plan worked perfectly against Penn State, and it would've worked against Iowa, had it not been for the kickoff return. (We would've ran down the clock and ended Iowa with ease without that score.)
Sure, if we had been up by THREE! touchdowns or FOUR! the kickoff wouldn't be a problem, but like I said Iowa is a top ten team because of their DEFENSE, one which we scored 3 TD's on and didn't turn it over to once.

The fans boo! every time Boom or Saine run up the middle and get stuffed, but they chear everytime t

Tress does show "balls of steel" and "guts" . . . in his Defense. Conservative Tressel ball isn't sexy, but it wins games. As 3b indicates, when Tress has deviated from this path, it has bitten him in the ass.

Nobody has been banned yet. And honestly I hope we never have to ban anyone.

I know I that my nose isn't completely clean in this fan on fan rage thing so I will issue an apology to anybody who wants it.

However, I will make it clear that I didn't challenge anyone to a fight. I'm a drinker, not a fighter.

I hear what you guys are saying. Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic to be going to our first Rose Bowl under Tress, but Brian said it. Every little bounce was in favor of Iowa yesterday, which is why we were very lucky to have won the game. If this was against a much superior team + our conservative play, the outcome most likely would've been much different and we'd ALL be singing a different tone in these comments à la post USC game.

Lastly, Tresselball, as of late, only wins games against conference opponents and lesser foes. I guess if you're satisfied with those results, fine. But I know many others like me aren't. Let's not forget, Tresselball doomed us in the previously mentioned game.

Oregon will be a tough opponent in Pasadena. I hope Tresselball will deliver.

I don't have the energy to get to all of the points you've mentioned.

In general, I think you are explaining away osu's ability to replace key players a little too easily. Just because the drop off in talent isn't severe doesn't mean the drop off in experience or leadership may not be severe. Say what you want about the 2 brians, laurinaitis and freeman, and our offensive linemen, but those were a lot of snaps those guys got over their tenure here, and that's difficult to ask new guys to come in and pick up right where we've left off. That would be the case for any program.

In regards to OU, no, I wasn't saying take a look at their situation and our situation and notice how identical it is. It isn't. The basic point there is that filling gaps vacated by productive starters is never easy. No, they haven't had spring or fall practices to replace the losses of Bradford and Gresham, but inexperience is still inexperience. I'm not sure lack of spring/fall practices excuses away a 10-3 loss to Nebraska, just like how it doesn't excuse a loss to Purdue.

you must also remember that we didn't really play all too conservative in 2006. Maybe that PSU game(poo pants game) we did, but we put up a lot of pts that year, passed a lot and still managed to fall apart.

I'll just take the W and hold on for the next white-knuckle ride at this point.

what does kill me though is how Capt Douchebag(M May) could love Iowa so much for winning ugly and yet at the same time hate the Buckeyes for the same thing.

Something I've come to realize is that the BCS national title is a joke. It's not a joke in the sense that it doesn't pit the #1 vs. #2 teams, or that it doesn't crown a true national champion - because I'm of the disposition that it does that fairly well (maybe better than a playoff).

The reason that I think that it's a joke is because we've been on both the winning side and the losing side of that game, and it has never benefited us nationally. People dog us for winning in 2002 because of that PI call, and they dog us for losing in 06 and 07 (even though we shouldn't have even been there in 07). It's a joke because it's been a lose-lose for Ohio State, but for other teams like Oklahoma, they can do no wrong. Teams that won the damn thing with 1 or 2 losses (SEC teams) get more prestige than the teams that won it won it while going undefeated (in our case, a record 14-0).

They can keep their national title game. Our team gets to participate in one of the coolest traditions in America. We don't have to worry about the national title, we don't have to worry about playing an SEC team. We just get to enjoy some tradition, and there will be tremendous upside if they can go out there and keep a Pac-10 offense in check.

"The SEC is terrible outside of Bama and Florida, and those teams are beatable."

I am in Florida and therefore wind up watching more SEC football than I otherwise would. The SEC is not terrible outside of those two teams, nor is it down. The same was said last year and they went 6-2 in bowls despite one of their premier teams getting upset. The South Carolina team that lost to Iowa is better than last year. The LSU team that waxed Ga. Tech is better than last year. Auburn and Arkansas are both better than last year. People continually underestimate SEC defenses and how physical these teams really are.

"Lastly, Tresselball, as of late, only wins games against conference opponents and lesser foes."

Exactly. If we were beating the good teams I wouldn't complain about Tresselball. I never did before 2007. It just looks like the other coaches have caught on and they know how to defeat it. You're not going to beat good teams by just out executing them. Those days are long gone.

I can understand the frustration, but you have to remember how we're getting that "more" -- these top-notch players aren't just falling into Tressel's lap, his recruiting skills, and his success on the field, are bringing them to us. Could other coaches win more games with these players? Maybe. But could those other coaches attract these players in the first place? No. You can't argue that Tressel is a poor coach who only succeeds because of the team's superior talent, because he's the guy who brought in that talent in the first place.

Given that, I'd argue that a coach has only two real goals: 1) success on the football field, and 2) making sure the players stay classy and out of trouble off the football field. Tressel has achieved both of these admirably, and the first, at least, better than any Ohio State coach in recent memory. I don't really know about the behavior of players under previous coaches, I wasn't old enough to care about that until the end of the Cooper era, and there's no good way to compare players' behavior, anyway. I don't think I'd trade him for any coach in the country right now.

This has to be a real men of genius bud light commercial. We salute you "corrects grammar on an internet forum guy!!!!" I am not sure if you are trying to prove you are smarter than a poster by correcting grammar or prove that you are a sixth grade english teacher but either way thanks for the commercial idea. Oh yeah relax its an internet forum not a thesis!