I think 'Either One' should be an option but I put NC just because Troy didn't get one
I'd take a national championship or even a bowl win over a heisman.
Don't get me wrong I would too I just think a Heisman would put Braxton over Troy because he would match Troys magic season and then you add in the whole career of Braxton which would put him over the top
A Heisman would put him on equal footing at least and with room to argue that Braxton is better. A national championship without a Heisman, assuming it wasn't won in spite of his performance, would elevate him above Smith.
Though I will say that no matter what, Troy Smith will be one of my favorite, if not my absolute favorite, buckeye of all time and I wouldn't want to compare the two.
National Championship > Heisman
Braxton is 0-2 in bowls. Aaaand, Braxton just overthrew Posey in the endzone against Florida again. The only way he could surpass Troy Smith in his final year is to win a national title. These kinds of questions force you to be harsh towards the best players that we all love, so in that vein I hate them.
I love me some Braxton. He will have three wins against michigan. He will have one incredible pass to win a game (Troy v Penn State; Brax v Wisconsin). Both had undefeated seasons. I think he needs the Heisman to be in the discussion with Troy and both Heisman and NC to surpass The Man.
A National Championship will do it for me. I still hold (gulp) Krenzel at a higher place because he won a National Championship.
Troy beat 3 great Michigan teams. It will take both for me to have Brax surpass him.
Braxton has already lost to scUM and also 0-2 in bowl games.
Fair or not, those are sort of the metrics sans a national title. Only thing he can do better than Troy did is win a national title.
Braxtotn is still a great buckeye!
"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick
I have to say both at this point. Brax will hold all/most of the offensive records, but I'm under the belief Troy is clearly above and beyond Braxton at this point legacy-wise.
IMO titles trump individual awards and in winning a title would mean he also won 2 Bowls in the process....Heisman is more of a popularity contest. No matter what stats Miller puts up they will say its against inferior competiton.
Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.
We want the natty. The Heisman is great, too, but I would gladly have the Heisman winner be from some other school (even TTUN) in exchange for a national championship. Craig Krenzel is much more valued in Buckeye lore because of the title than he would be based on his own abilities.
Class of 2010.
Didn't we have a similar poll not long ago?
Looks like it.
I season my simple food with hunger
National Championship will do it. Stats comparison is closer than you'd think, even in Troy's Heisman season:
#10: 2500 yds, 30 TDS/ 6 INTS, 65% passing; 200 yards, 1 TD rushing
#5: 2100 yards, 24 TDS/7 INTS, 63% passing, 1100 yards, 12 TD rushing
Troy won the Heisman in a weak year with (take your glasses off) stats that didn't blow you away. However, Troy came up #B1G, repeatedly, on the biggest stage (until the debacle NC game). Braxton has failed in the clutch more often, though it should be noted that he has been put in that spot more often by his supporting cast. With the caliber of defense Troy had, we most certainly win MSU game last year (and the Clemson game, even though we'd never have been in that game in the first place).
Braxton has failed in the clutch more often? I would think going 24-2 would actually say that he came through more often than not. An offense can only carry a team so far when the defense is as bad as it was. A mediocre pass D shuts down sparty and there is no need for late game heroics.
Yes, I agree, that's why I said "but he's been put there more often by his supporting cast." Whether he should have been in the spot is irrelevant though: he was put there more often, and had some big miscues. Troy wasn't put there as often, but didn't have that many miscues (or at least I don't remember them, possibly because we won most of the games).
I was specifically thinking about overthrows against TTUN ('11), Fla ('11), awful passing performance against MSU ('13), and an INT that sealed the loss against Clemson when Philly is in the clear if Braxton puts some touch on the ball. Those are plays that, despite our relatively garbage defensive performances, could have saved each of those games. Instead we have 4 losses in those games.
2011 he had zero QB coaching so I wouldn't say he was operating on anything more than his athletic ability. So both starting points are vastly different for Miller and Smith from a developmental stand point. He had a bad game against MSU but I can also say that he did a lot on the ground and he had several drops that led to poor passing to where OSU was still in it. He was also hurt in the Clemson game and should not have been in at the end if anything. So there needs to be perspective when we say he could have saved 4 losses. Smith looked terrible vs Florida and lost to PSU so he wasn't perfect either.
Give Braxton Miller the defenses and or the receivers Troy Smith had and I'd say his results would be even better.
"The only good thing about it is winning the d*** thing" - Urban Meyer on The Game The War