PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
It's between Craft and Conley. Conley was a little better offensively (although not from 3); however nobody disrupts an opposing team's offense like Aaron Craft. Therefore I went with Craft.
He plays offense well, can get to the hoop quickly like Conley, plays incredibly tenacious defense, and has a motor that never quits.
35 hours to Pasadena! Go Bucks!
Yeah, Craft's defense is incredible. Nothing disrupts a good, timely offense like someone who can defend the point.
"Because we couldn't go for three"
We only got to see Conley for 1 year so it's hard to judge what he would have looked like coming back. Craft's D and hustle is off the charts. He can dribble his ass off and passes well enough. Craft is more fun to watch and really pisses the other team off. I voted for Conley because he's a solid NBA pg but I think Craft has more value at the NCAA level when I think about it. No Jamar Butler option? Can PJ get some love?
"It's game time baby!"
- PJ Hill
Craft. Defense, defense, defense.
How firm thy friendship
+1 Felony Charge
Conley's first step: ACL snapper and ankle breaker. Also, as I recall, he kept us in a lot of games single-handedly when Oden was battling injuries...
Don't text while driving.
I did it for his family too
If Denard Robinson isn't careful with spooning all that food into his mouth, he's going to end up lookin' like Whoopi Goldberg
ummm don't you mean BYRON?
Banned from ATO since June 3rd 2PMish PST
Has to be Conley. I love Craft but Conley is the most talented overall PG in OSU history.
It's been a while but did he disrupt other teams like Craft? He passed the ball better, was more of a scoring theat, and had better handles, but what about intangibles?
Here are the stats for Conley in his one and only full season and how they stacked up against the rest of the B1G - including both conf and non-conf games:
Conley was 23rd with 11.3 ppg. (oden was 6th at 15.7 and Lewis was 17th at 12.7).
Conley was an amazing 5th in FG% at 51.3%. Looks like he was the only guard in the conference to shoot over 50% from the floor on the season. (yes, they were mainly deuces because his 3 ball was just as bad as craft's was last year).
Conley led the conf in assists at 6.10 per game - a full half assist better than #2 Travis Walton.
Conley led the conference in steals at 2.23 per game. He had 87 steals. The next closest B1G player (chris kramer) had 63. Conley was an absolutely ridiculous balll hawk.
Conley led the conf in asst/TO ratio at 2.77 (2.2 TO per game). Only 2 other B1G freshmen were in the top 13.
I didn't look at Craft's numbers last year yet to see how they compare. Just from the eyeball test, I still say Conley was the #1 PG in OSU history. Craft will have the best legacy though, and he's definitely and incredible player.
I recall this summer, and maybe it was just Craft being an awesome dude in general, but Craft was talking about Conley saying he's pretty sure Mike was only going about 80% speed during summer pickup games (they guarded each other) and still dominated the game more than any other player. FWIW.
Both and special players and fantastic Buckeyes.
I forgot about him plundering the sh*t out of other teams. I guess that's what happens when a player only plays a year. I remember Cook disappearing near mid season and not playing up to his potential. I remember Oden being hurt FOREVER but playing like a man in a losing effort against Florida. I remember Conley improving during the season and really running the show near the end. Tennessee in the sweet 16 ugh.....stressed out. I remember that Memphis game and thinking we were going to lose with Oden in foul trouble but then Calpal got smoked. Georgetown had Oden once again in foul trouble.... then back to back losers against the Gators, gridiron then hardcourts. painful stuff
Toss up between Craft and Scoonie.
Burson---lack of D
Conley---one and done
"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)
Craft for shizz. His defense is unreal and his motor is always on full throttle. Plus, he'll be here for all four years.
"Say my name."
Pretty sure he wants to be a surgeon, heard it pregame last year (an announcer asked if he wanted to be a coach since he's so smart during their pregame talks and he said nope, he wants to be a doctor). I don't have a link, but I think you need 4 years for that.
Not true. I know a guy that will perform surgeries out of the back of his van for you and he only went to community college for 3 semesters.
Thanks for the info though :)
Link to where it's not true? At this point, it's mostly just speculation on everyone's part.
Its Conley. He gives the best combo of O and D of them all. Craft and Scoonie are very close 2a and 2b. Cant go wrong with any of them but if you had to win one game or a series you have to take Conley.
People forget Conleys dent in the record books in just one season and the fact his squad made it to the finals gives him the nod. If you want to compare Craft and Conley, Conley doubled the production of Craft in asst and steals and its not close in points.
For what it's worth, that article was written in February. Conley still has an a pretty sizable edge in most stats at season's end though.
Those stats don't break down opponent's FG percentage when guarded by either Conley or Craft. What I'm interested in is what would happen if you did something similar to Wynn's turnometer he's doing on Craft this season. A lot of craft's pressure doesn't always end up credited as a steal for him. And you can't measure hustle.
Either choice would be a great one as they're both very good PGs. The choice you make depends on whether we're talking NBA or NCAA and whether you're more defensive or offensive minded. I love defense and so chose Craft.
Old school, break my friggin neck hustle and grit.
lol at anybody voting for Craft over Conley.
Californian by birth, Marionaire by the Grace of God.
LOL all you want DJ...I'm not voting for a one and done.
I agree with this whole-heartedly. That and I value D over O out of a point guard. I don't think either one of them shot well as Freshmen, and maybe Mike would have improved, but he didn't give himself the chance. So I pick Craft already and I think we have the best yet to come with him.
“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.” - Woody
Conley actually shot the ball over 50% on the year, but his 3ball sucked. The numbers are pretty comparable and there are a lot of stats that they're neck and neck in. PPG is the biggest difference as Conley had 11 in 31 MPG vs 7 in 29MPG for Craft. Obviously Conley won the assist margin as well as he set the freshman record for assists in a season.
I'm definitely with DJ in that Conley is my decisive choice over Craft. I guess it really goes back to the poll itself. It's written as "take your pick and tell me why" instead of asking who is truly the better point guard. Maybe some of you wouldn't take the better PG because of other off the court variables like one and done but that's really the only valid reason I can see for taking Craft over Conley. The numbers don't lie when you compare their freshman seasons. I summarized Conley's freshman numbers a few replies above and here's how their freshman seasons stack up against each other.
PPG: Conley 11.3 (23rd in conf), Craft 6.9 (not in top 40)
FG%: Conley 51% (5th in conf), Craft 46% (not in top 15)
APG: Conley 6.10 (1st in conf), Craft 4.78 (5th)
SPG: Conley 2.77 (1st in conf, 87 total), Craft 1.97 (1st, 73 total)
Asst/TO Ratio: Conley 2.77 (1st in conf), Craft 2.24 (4th)
(Edit/Add): Minutes Per Game: Conley 31.6, Craft 29.6
Conley basically took over down the stretch his freshman year from what I recall. I'd argue Conley has better handles than Craft. Again, no disrespect to Craft - I want to have his children - but Conley was a freakish talent and without a doubt the best PG in OSU history.
Do you have minutes/ game comparison? Because I know Craft came off the bench last year and Conley started his freshman year.
True but Craft always came in for Dallas early and played virtually rest of the game. There's a difference - it's pretty small at 2 minutes - but still valid point:
Minutes Per Game: Conley 31.6, Craft 29.6
I noticed you left out 3P%, FT%, and TOs. Areas that Craft edged out Conley.
Craft - 180 FGA vs Conley 309 FGA. I would hope Conley scored more points per game.
I only left out those stats because Conley nor Craft were listed on the Big Ten Leaders / Stats link I was using for a quick/dirty comparision.
Conley took more shots per game because he was a better scorer /offensive threat in general. Nothing to get salty about. It's just fact. He was much more skilled in the lane with his floater and using either hand while shielding his shot with his body. He dominated the basketball either by scoring or assisting at a greater level than Craft. I don't know how it can be argued.
Totally agree Craft shot better from 3 but I think any sane coach would've preferred that neither one of them shot three's their freshman year.
I don't have the actual drill-down stats but I'd bet both of them shot FT's at a much higher precentage in the last 5 minutes of games than they did in the first 35. Both seemed to be clutch in that area.
I'm not hating on Craft. I just think Conley was clearly the better, more valuable player when comparing their freshman seasons.
And I respectfully disagree. :-)
Conley was more of an offensive threat, but I like defense more. Craft's motor never stopped, he never gave up on a play, and he simply shut down the opposing PG. I don't have the stats to back it up, but it seemed like every player he defended always had one of their worst games in the season.
Fair enough. It's like choosing between two supermodels though I think Conley's D gets underrated because he was so sick with the ball in his hands. Regardless, I'm just glad to see passionate hoops chatter more consistently on the site to be completely honest.
Conley stole the ball like Stockton, J.
I was gonna comment on here to say Jeremy had an excellent question of the day for the poll, great job Jeremy!, but I also like this comment. Love the basketball talk on here now. It happens every year, but usually waits til January. I'm so happy to see this site get tons more hits, and I'll be extremely excited if it includes basketball fans! Something tells me it is because the football wasn't great this year and the basketball team is, but I hope this enthusiasm for bball continues throughout the OSU fanbase for a full season. Go Bucks!
I will definitely want to see the comparison between Craft and Conley by years end (Craft soph. vs. Conley frosh). In my mind, although only through a short season, Craft has improved his game dramatically especially on the offensive end (not scoring necessarily but in passing and command of the offense). Of course he is just as tenacious if not more so on D this year.
I'll take Craft just because of the fact that he's going to stick around and only get better. Conley was a beast, but was one and done. Burson fought hard and probably would have better numbers with better players around him, but sometimes took a break on D.
I loved Scoonie Penn. Penn and Redd were a hell of a 1-2 punch. Plus, Scoonie Penn is a great name.
DISCLAIMER: I am a female student attenting The Ohio State University. This is going to be kind of biased, but I tried my best to use basketball logic. Really, I did. Promise.
Oh God, where do I start? Aaron Craft is so drool worthy it isn't even funny. While, yes, Conley is definitely quicker, had better overall stats, and what have you, I will take Aaron any day of the week and twice on game days. Here's why.
First and foremost, his defense. I personally love defense (cheer for them more in football, too), because it is where you show hard you are willing to work. It isn't glamerous, most of what you do never makes it to the box score, and it's exhausting if you do it right. However, it is so much fun to watch as the opposing team is visibly frustrated, irritated, and annoyed. Boy, does Craft now how to do play defense. He plays that hard-nosed, in your face, fundamentally sound defense. This was the first thing that caught my eye last year, as a freshman band geek coming from a semi-catastrophic event to the Walsh exhibition game. He has, far and away, been my favorite player since.
Second, his poise and maturity. Last year, both Jared and Aaron went to Gainesville, for their second real college game, in a more than hostile environment, and whooped them good. From there on, Craft had very few "freshman" moments. True, I can remember fouling a 3-point shooter in one game, and having a few head-scratching turn-overs in another. On the other hand, I remember being at Illinois and at Michigan when, in the last few minutes, game on the line, Craft went perfect (or almost perfect) on all of his free throws to help clinch wins at hostile conference venues.
Third, his intensity. The energy he brings to the court is absolutely electric. Having gone to pretty much every home game I possibly have been able to (plus Northwestern -what a fun trip), you can literally feel it in the air. Granted, it could just be overall situations. Last year, he was our only pg, thus when he was out, our offense was helter-skelter, unbridled, and kind of disasterous at times. After that first time out, everything calmed down as Craft ran the show, controlled our tempo, and brought insane defensive intensity to the other side. This year, for whatever reason, that feeling (for me) has just multiplied. He's brought that same energy from defense, and is starting to channel it to his offense, too. Aaron is just slashing into the lane whenever. Plus, his hustle is second to none. That play from the MSU game last year was second to none.
I am not discounting any of the other PGs on this list. They all have their pros and cons, and each were enjoyable to watch (though I didn't watch all of them). Plus, my gut feeling on athletes tend to be dead on. I got one the first time I saw Sanzenbaucher and Shazier play. I like to think those were good picks for personal favorites.
Admit it, you picked Craft just because you think he has a tight @ss and cute cheeks. It's all good.
Just kidding. Excellent analysis.
Darn, and I thought I disguised it with enough sports jargon to get away with it, too. ;)
Thank you. I'm sure I could gush more, but can't think of anything comprehensible or relevent to go off on right now.
Dear lord, my wife will not stop talking about Aaron Craft's "pinchable" cheeks, and how sad she is that he grew out of them this year.
I picked Craft, but it's close. He's my personal favorite for those special moments he seems to have a couple times every game that we've come to call "Aaron Craft is faster than you." Those ridiculous steals where you just wonder how he magically teleported his hand under the ball before he goes sliding across the floor and into a camera-man. The joy I get in those plays is worth what he gives up in points per game to Conley.
I voted Craft because I am bias towards him because he is playing right now and although this is a GREAT team with tons of talent....... Conley's team had more star studded players and veteran leadership at the same time, it was kind of the perfect storm....... Conley is most likely the better point guard....... so really I have no justification for my vote other than it has been a while since I have seen Conley play...... I blame the NBA lockout.
hard to give an opinion with the question. I voted conley as the better pg. but if i had to pick between 1 year of conley and 4 years of craft then thats a pretty easy answer...
Conley. The guy just had unbelievable body control and balance around the rim. Can't teach it. God-given.
All those guys are great, and I wouldn't trade Craft for any other PG in the nation.
But, Mike Conley is special.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
Conley is the better NBA talent. Craft is and will be the better college player.
Here's an honorable mention vote for Jay Burson
The problem with Burson being part of this poll is that he wasn't really a point guard like the others. He had the ball in his hand a lot, but he usually shot it or drove the lane. The main assist guy on those teams was Curtis Wilson.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Craft. I know it's easy to pick him because he's here now, but I like his overall game more than any others listed. Can score on occasion, but runs the offense with confidence and vision, and we all know his defense is superior.
If you have to win one game with your PG, no way you don't take Craft.
After deliberation: Scoonie Penn > Conley > Craft.
If I have the guy for 4 years, I want Conley.
If I have the guy for 1 game, I want Craft.
Had Conley been at OSU for 4 years, he would've shattered evey point guard record at OSU and we would've renamed the building for him. People forget how good he was defensively as well - he had such long arms and quick hands that he was alwasy disrupting the ballhandler.
I love Craft, but he doesn't have the ceiling nor the offensive repetoire nor the sick first step that Conley had.
Conley. His first step and ability to score at will is too dangerous. Don't care if he was "one and done". That right there should tell you enough, first of all..
Craft. Simply because I've never loved watching someone play defense more than Aaron Craft.
One thing I'll say about Craft, and people can/will disagree with me I'm sure, is he had a ton of support in the starting lineup as a freshman PG. He had great upperclassmen in Bufford, Lighty, and Diebbler. Also, he had an insane talent to feed the ball to down low who played much older than his Freshman age.
I think Connely played a more vital role, was more valuable to his team his one year here. Of course he had some sick talent but it was mostly very young. It's really hard to compare the two. When it's all said and done Craft will go down as a better PG probably, but he's likely to be here for 3 at least one more year. Can't really go wrong either way though.
I still liked Scoonie!
I would have possibly voted for a Scoonie/Redd duo as they really were a tandem PG.
Conley; You know why we didn't beat FLA? He get into quick foul trouble. If he doesn't, we don't get into a hole and win a tight game.
Love Craft's game, and Burson...wow. He broke his neck and came back.
All week long, Meyer preached to his team that he wouldn't pity Buffalo (4--8 in 2012). "I didn't schedule this game," he insisted. "I'm not going to feel bad for them."
It's close between Craft and Conley, but I would take Craft because he's sticking around longer. I harbor no ill-will towards one-and-dones, it's perfectly understandable that they leave when the money is good, but a guy who's going to be here for a couple/few/four years is just worth more to the team over time.
I'm Team Craft because he's there now, and SUPER CUTE in drag!!! TEAM CRAFT 4EVER!!!
I will take Jay Burson and his ability to drop 40 on somebody if needed. I love Craft myself. He is the motor on this team that will take them. There is nothing like having a guy that can run a full sprint for 20 minutes before taking a break that is really hard to deal with in basketball.
Burson also took 40 shots to get those 40. Not exactly the poster child for being a selfless team player
If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target
Or 18 less than Tank. And 41 less than Jordan.
Jimmy Jackson his freshman year. Hands down.
Could Evan Turner be on the list, he was practically a PG his last year here.
Great point. He did it all.
Very great point. He was a great point guard, but more in a scoring sense rather than distributing sense.
I base my vote on one thing and one thing only. How deep in the NCAA tourny did the pg take his team. Right now Conley gets that nod, however, I voted for Craft because it would be too hard to hack into the system and change my vote in a few months ;)
Conley is a great defender in the NBA. In their series with San Antonio last year he took Tony Parker out of most of those games. That is no small feat. Give me the NBA quality disher and defender any day. Craft's hustle is great, but give me 1 game, 1 year, or 1 career and im taking Mike Conley.
"Who cares? Go Bucks." - Aaron Untch
Aaron Craft for the simple reason that I heard he can sing better than Susan Boyle.
Two blondes were driving to Disneyland. The sign said: Disneyland Left... So they started crying and headed home.
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