Hall Can Make It Rainey in 2012

By Alex on January 4, 2012 at 12:30p
103 Comments
Makin' it Rain(ey)Chris Rainey showed his versatility in the Gator Bowl

Looking at the line of 16 carries for 71 yards and 3 catches for 31 yards, you wouldn't think the player who recorded them was too impactful, but if you watched any part of the Gator Bowl on Monday, you knew who Chris Rainey was.

Recruited by Urban Meyer as a running back from Lakeland High School, Rainey (5-9/175) has developed into a hybrid running back/wide receiver who, like on Monday, has had a large part in Florida's success throughout the last four years by defeating opponents both by ground and by air.

The fifth year senior has rushed for 2,464 yards and 13 touchdowns on 396 carries (6.22 avg) and has caught 69 passes (56 in the last two seasons) for 795 yards (11.52 ypc) and 6 touchdowns during his career in Gainesville. He also has 2 punts returned for scores to go along with a career 204 punt return (6.6 avg) and 454 kick return (25.22 avg) yards.

Those numbers may not seem so impressive on the surface, but when you consider the fact that injuries took away some opportunity during his first and fourth years and that Rainey split carries with multiple backs, they show just how versatile the Gators' little weapon has been in keeping teams off balance. That trend continued Monday as Rainey seemed unstoppable at times against the Buckeyes and often delivered a crushing blow when the Silver Bullets needed a stop the most.

While he did play for the Florida Gators and Will Muschamp this season, Rainey learned how to become the hybrid star that he is today under the tutelage of Meyer, as well as Stan Drayton, who was UF's running backs coach during Rainey's first and fourth year's in Gainesville and who focused on his backs catching the ball both out of the backfield and the slot.

Playing for those same two coaches who helped mold Rainey, Jordan Hall (5-9/195) has a unique opportunity in 2012 to provide Ohio State with a weapon that is has been lacking since Ted Ginn left Columbus following the 2007 National Championship Game: a play maker who can make defenders miss in space. Hall was expected to be virtually a wide receiver heading into 2011, but due to suspension to Boom Herron and a case of the fumbles by Rod Smith, was forced to line up more in the I-formation than in the spread formation. 

That changed as the season went on, as it became more apparent where Hall was a threat for Ohio State. That change will continue to evolve under Meyer, who puts an emphasis on getting his play makers in position to make plays, and you can expect Hall to be featured more in a Rainey-like role than he has been in the past. Today we look at Jordan Hall and the likelihood of him adding a missing element to Ohio state's 2012 offense as the Urban Meyer era officially begins this week.

Take aside Urban Meyer's offense and you can still see the trajectory for where Jordan Hall's career was headed if you follow the 2011 season.

In the first four games he played in before Boom Herron's return, Hall recorded 67 rushes for 265 yards and 1 TD on the ground, good for 16.75 rushes and 66.25 yards per contest. In that same time frame, he caught just 1 pass for 4 yards and 0 TDs, good for 0.25 receptions and 1 yard per game.

In the next five games he played in prior to the Gator Bowl, Hall notched 28 rushes for 116 yards and 1 TD, good for 5.6 rushes and 23.5 yards per game. In those five games, he then caught 8 passes for 98 yards and 2 TDs, up to 1.6 receptions and 19.6 yards per game during the time span. 

Finally, in the Gator Bowl, Hall notched just 4 carries for 24 yards, but did more damage in the air, catching 3 balls for 12 yards, including one that went for a score.

The numbers on Hall aren't ridiculously eye-popping, but you can see the concerted effort by the Ohio State staff to try and get the ball in his hands other than by running the Dave play, especially when you take into consideration 12 of those 28 rushes came in the Illinois game, Boom's first game back.

Hall was clearly made more of a factor in the passing game, coming up with a few big receptions down the stretch and in crunch time during the second half of the season and in the bowl game. While Walrus ball couldn't exactly figure out how to perfect this craft, it was clear that even the most vanilla of offensive staffs was able to recognize Hall as a play maker not just a running back.

Almost Holy Buckeye part deuxHall had success down the stretch as a receiving threat

Bringing Meyer's offense back into the picture, it is a foregone conclusion that Hall will be used much like Rainey was for Florida. You can expect Hall to be moved around the field, as that hybrid running back/receiver and the ball will find him one way or another.

The Ohio State version of the spread will be slightly altered from the Florida version of the spread, but the principles will remain the same. The question Urban Meyer will ponder when looking at Jordan Hall is how to put him in a position to get a schematic advantage to utilize his speed and agility to give the Buckeyes' the opportunity to hit a home run on every play. While that is likely a topic for off-season discussion among the coaching staff, one can start to speculate now based on Meyer's past offensive formations.

First, as a running back, expect Hall's speed to be utilized in space and to the outside of the field. One of the many frustrations I shared with a majority of the fan base this year was that Carlos Hyde was used too often outside the hash marks, while Jordan Hall was bottled up inside on Dave or other plays between the tackles. Expect that to change under Meyer, as Hall will be featured in the zone-read and option plays to the outside out of the shot gun, as well as the sweep and counter when Braxton Miller is under center.

Second, as a receiver, expect Hall to line up in a multitude of positions. I anticipate he will line up out wide, in the slot, and out of the backfield to keep opposing defenses off balance and create match-ups in which he has an advantage (i.e. against slower safeties and linebackers). By running slants, screens, wheel routes, and fly patterns, Meyer and Tom Herman will be able to utilize Hall's speed in space and get the ball in the hands of one of their best play makers so that he is in a position to succeed every time he touches the football.

I think big things are in plan for Jordan Hall as the Jim Bollman era comes to a close and the Urban Meyer/Tom Herman era begins on the offensive side of the ball for Ohio State. There are many players who will benefit from this change in both scheme and philosophy, but maybe none more than Hall who has shown glimpses of what he can do when used properly and put in a position to succeed.

103 Comments

Comments

Maestro's picture

I know you don't want to tip your hand, but I think Hyde will be the primary ball carrier and Hall will be utilized more as a hybrid.  Hyde has nice hands too.  Both are good dual threats and I expect to see them on the field at the same time much more.

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Alex's picture

Agree Mestro...I think Hyde/Smith/Dunn will be three guys utilized more as RBs next year, while Hall is the hybrid who maybe sees 4-5 carries a game and about 5-6 passes per game....10-12 touches per game isn't much to ask

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Do you think then that Ball is a redshirt candidate?    And are you convinced Smith is coming back?   The whole "missed charter" nonsense has me very concerned, maybe moreso for his younger brother than Rod himself....

Alex's picture

I do think either Ball or Dunn will redshirt, yes...I like Dunn slightly more than Ball, in addition to Dunn enrolling early..... so I'll say Ball redshirts

I do think Smith is coming back...would I be surprised if he leaves? definitely not, but I do think he's coming back as of today

Maestro's picture

I hope that if we are right in that regard that we see KR-Jordan Hall carrying the ball rather than RB-Jordan Hall.  What I mean by that is when I watch Hall return kicks/punts he looks for daylight and is very shifty/explosive.  When I see Hall take a ball up the middle I see him look to protect the ball and gain 5 hard yards.  Of course the vision of the field is different in those various settings, but I just think that RB-Hall was drilled/coached to be safe and plod forward vs. KR-Hall who is looking to take the ball to the house.

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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Hit the nail on the head in regards to the "Two Jordan Halls".   RB Jordan is head down, two hands on the ball, get positive yards.    KR Jordan is a dangerous slippery, shifty guy, heads up, looking for a slot to slither through.    That being said, did you think he was incredibly slow in the Gator Bowl on kick returns?   Seemed like he was running in cement.   Maybe longer cleats were slowing him down?   Field conditions didn't seem to affect FLA.

William's picture

He' just not that fast. He's very shifty or elusive, but he has no breakaway speed.

Irricoir's picture

He did look slow and he looked a lot less elusive this year than he did last. I wasn't much impressed with him this year. I thought he was very creative on that touchdown catch at the Gator Bowl though. His Kick Off Returns toward the end of the year were very unimpressive. Maybe our return team wasn't blocking well enough up field? I can tell you those screen plays were horribly blocked. Our tight ends were not taking the physicality to that Florida LB, nor anyone else close to the runner. They stood around looking at the received as the defender ran past them for the tackle. You have to take your blocks to the opponent, not wait for them to bust it up. Screen passes are not meant to have pass blocking.

I don't always take names when I kick ass but when I do, they most often belong to a Wolverine.

Poison nuts's picture

I think the Florida special teams guys just seemed to get to him much faster on kickoffs/punts than we got to their guys...thats what it looked like from my vantage point anyway. Obviously we were truly aweful on special teams play in general.

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

rdubs's picture

On the returns in the bowl game, it seemed like we were giving their gunners a free shot.  Often the lead blocker would leave the first guy and go for the next one.  Maybe that is what they are supposed to do and Hall is supposed to make him miss, but it seems to me that the first guy down the field is going to be the fastest and therefore the hardest to elude without anyone getting a hand on him.

We did get to see his elusiveness on the TD catch at the end of the game.  He had a shot to just run out of bounds and save the clock, but he cut back, spun around and lept into the endzone.  Hopefully we'll see more of that in the coming year.  It seems like he could drop 5-10 pounds if he really weighs 195, that ought to help the speed.

Squirrel Master's picture

Dr., I loved how the tv coverage pointed it out, over and over again about the cleats! but it did look a bit like that was the problem or perhaps the lack of "SEC speed" that OSU obviously did not have! :P

**sarcasm**

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

buckeyedude's picture

It seems to me that J. Hall has pretty good hands. Not Dane-type hands, but almost. That is what OSU was missing this year: a receiver that actually could get open and then catch the ball. I like Hall on PRs, KRs and as a receiver. The trainers can work on his explosiveness to help improve his breakaway speed some too.  

 

 

slippy's picture

I wonder if he'll try to work on his top end speed in the offseason.  He seemed a step slow on the kickoffs in the bowl game.  I've always liked Hall and felt he never got a fair deal - mostly from fans who were waiting for Berry and the other young guns to show up.  He's turned plenty of -1 or -2 yard runs into 2 or 3 yard gains because he consistently makes the first guy miss.  He's great in traffic and those middle screens the team tried to run for him in the bowl game were perfect plays for him - just need to execute on the blocking better.

bassplayer7770's picture

I look forward to seeing how the Offense will run, period.  Hall could certainly be a big part of it.  As for KR-Hall, I agree he seemed a step slow in the Gator Bowl.  I wonder if he'll still be a KR next season.  Aren't there faster guys on the team?  Like Devin Smith perhaps?

themostbrian's picture

So who are the top 6-7 must-see-the-ball playmakers that Urban will write on the white board the first week?

1. Braxton

2. Jordan Hall

3. Jake Stoneburner

4. Carlos Hyde

5. Devin Smith?

6. Philly Brown?

7. Verlon Reed? Jeff Heuerman? Brionte Dunn? Michael Thomas? Rod Smith? Jaamal Berry? Chris Fields?

Alex's picture

I think Philly Brown will be a big time player under Meyer, IF he commits himself to the system...

I think Braxton is #1 for Urban with Stoney #2....he LOVES Stoney

themostbrian's picture

That's fair enough. I think it's clear that Stoney/Hall are 2/3 behind Braxton, though.

Maestro's picture

Looks good.  I would substitute Reed or Thomas for Philly Brown at this point.  Perhaps the offense just isn't/wasn't designed to suit his skill set, but Philly hasn't really shown me much of anything yet.

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NYC Buckeye's picture

yea I agree with you on Philly... looks to be heading the way of Brandon Saine, but not even as productive.... just a guy we keep waiting on every year to do something and never does, at least Saine did produce a big play here and there...   unless Meyer finds a way to just throw screens over and over to Philly, I think this kid has already showed us his best...

I do like Verlon Reed a lot... was terrible that he got hurt and missed almost a fill years experience...

Alex's picture

Philly is in year 2 in this program at the wide receiver position...he played RB in high school not receiver so not only did he learn a whole new position but he is only in year two of his college career.....I think year 3 under Meyer will be solid and then year 4 he turns himself into an NFL prospect....just my opinion

 

Also NYC Buckeye, you livin in the city?

NYC Buckeye's picture

I hope you are right, I just don't see much in his play...

 

yes sir, born and raised here, currently living in Park Slope, class of '03 ... yourself?

Alex's picture

Nice...from Jersey but living in the city now...65th and 1st...

NYC Buckeye's picture

Do you ever hit Tonic for the games?  I hate that place, I go once or twice a season for Indiana/MAC matchups... can we team up and get them to find a better bar or something!?  lol

Alex's picture

yeah I went to Tonic a bunch last year and for the Miami and one other game this year...not a huge fan...I've been hitting up Manny's on the UES (92 and 2) for games...it used to be the official Buckeye bar as Blondie's East and is still all OSU even though the alumni club moved to Tonic....definitely come join next year, I'll buy you a beer

As for hoops, I know the alumni assoc does SideBar for some games...it's in Union Square and they do an open bar an hour before tip...never went but sounds tempting

jedkat's picture

88th and 1st for me...born in columbus tho.

"I was tired of trying to work my way around the back, so I just ran him over"

~ Joey Bosa

Alex's picture

JedKat you can join us too...maybe i'll organize an 11W meet up next year

jedkat's picture

Thanks Alex. I just moved into the city about 2 months ago, and discovered this site not long after so I'm doing a lot of back reading (11w) and walking (yorkville) to try and get caught up with everything.

 

I gotta tell you tho, I'm engaged to a Husker and was at memorial stadium this year...that was an akward trip home :/

"I was tired of trying to work my way around the back, so I just ran him over"

~ Joey Bosa

NYC Buckeye's picture

I was there also JedKat, with a Husker grad buddy of mine, so not as awkward...lol..

werent the people so nice??!!? I couldn't get over it...

jedkat's picture

It was actually the 3rd (?) game I've been to out there, but first for big 10 reasons. I was (am) still a husker fan to some degree just from rooting for them in the Big12 and because their fan base is so great. You'll always have the crazies but for the most part they are fantastic.

I don't know how many people realize that if their opponents play a well fought game they give a standing ovation when they're leaving the field. Love that.

 

I'm trying to get her to Ohio stadium next year so she can see what real football tradition is like though. lol (little known fact but memorial stadium was modeled after ohio statidum).

"I was tired of trying to work my way around the back, so I just ran him over"

~ Joey Bosa

faux_maestro's picture

Inní mér syngur vitleysingur

NYC Buckeye's picture

I've never been to Sidebar, been meaning to check it out...  If you guys wanna check it out for a game this season let me know, Im down... always good to know more Buckeye fans in the city, which is over run with Michigan grads...

Ohio Guy in Jersey's picture

Count me in. Live in NNJ, work in mid-town, raised in Columbus, tOSU class of 1990.

Pam's picture

Don't forget me. I am in Princeton

Buckeyejason's picture

475 west 57 here

BUCKEYES BABY!

Alex's picture

Also, Jaamal Berry will likely not be on this team...was not at the team meeting yesterday and is still dealing with legal and personal issues....feel kinda bad for the guy--could have been great if in the right mindset playing for Meyer

themostbrian's picture

Didn't know he wasn't at the meeting. Too bad. Perfect type of player for his offense.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Yea, I have been under the assumption he will be gone.   Change of scenery is probably best for him, and it's too bad, I think he would have done well with Urban.   Above all, hope he gets his personal stuff squared away.

OldColumbusTown's picture

I think guys like Philly Brown and Verlon Reed (if his knee has reacted well to rehab) will really thrive in a more wide-open offense.

One thing I noticed Nebraska did in their bowl game, and something I could see Urban/Herman fiddling with is putting more of a power-runner under center or taking the shotgun snap, and using Braxton as the option man.  Nebraska did this with Burkhead taking the snap and running a speed option with Martinez as the "pitch man."

Urban likes his power runners to work in the trenches (Tebow) and his speed guys out on the edge (Harvin/Rainey/Demps).  Who else is a better speed/shifty runner than Braxton on this team?  It's obviously a bit of a radical idea, and not something I expect to be a major staple of the offense, but instead a piece that may create more running opportunities in space for Braxton.  If you get Hyde or Smith or Dunn running the zone read, you have one heck of a power-runner playing the role that most QBs would play.  And you could run several gadget plays as well with Braxton taking the pitch or handoff, and then looking to throw.

Maestro's picture

In the case of the RB taking the snap and Brax being the pitch man, the ball might actually get pitched.  Miller left several yards on the field by not pitching the ball on Monday.

vacuuming sucks

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Forgot about that....I noticed several times late in the year that it seemed like the pitch man had a better chance at yards, but Braxton seemed to have no intention of giving up the ball....on one play in the bowl, with Hyde I think it was, Hyde's body language was almost like "dude, come ON, I had a huge lane over here", when Brax held it and got stuffed for a 1 yard gain....

NYC Buckeye's picture

I saw this too!  I noticed it with Herron though, twice during the bowl game...  the cameras showed him literally throwing his hands up looking at the coaches after Miller was tackled...

It made me wonder if there might have been a little bit of resentment amongst the older players towards Braxton as the season closed... based off the little bit I see of his personality, its not a stretch to think some guys might interpret his attitude as cocky, especially as the offense became more and more of him alone...

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

You're probably right - it may have been Herron in the bowl game, I just know that whoever it was, it was pretty clear he wanted the ball and Braxton did nothing with it on his own....rb seemed frustrated.....

Funny about the resentment thing, I wondered the same thing about Braxton, he seems so reserved that some guys will see it as arrogance....I'm sure we are reading too much into it, but food for thought....

William's picture

I go to OSU and you guys are reading way too much into the whole "arrogant" thing. The guy's quiet, and reserved, not arrogant by any means. He's not like TP who comes into a party and is a massive douche the whole night. I think Bollman and Siciliano drilled it into his head so much, that he is absolutely afraid to do almost anything that involves risk, such as a last second pitch on an option. 

buckeyedude's picture

Exactly what I was going to say, William. The kid is not anywhere near cocky, from everything I've read and seen. More likely, he was just afraid of turning the ball over and tucked it.

 

 

RBuck's picture

I also think he was leery about throwing the ball away in fear of being compared to Bauserman.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

Does the air smell a bit more crisp and clean now that Bollman and party have vacated the campus?

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I suspect that's mainly an issue of (lack of) confidence/repititions: making that pitch at the last possible split second is somewhat of an artform and can be daunting task for a kid who is still learning the finer points of the college game.  

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Or one who is deathly afraid to turn the ball over?   That's a possibility as well....

MediBuck's picture

And we certainly have Big Man Luke and The Walrus for shattering his confidence in the Miami game for that one :/

"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes

Maestro's picture

Verlon Reed as the QB and Brax as the pitch man.......now that seems really intriuging (assuming the rehab is going well for Reed).

vacuuming sucks

flipbuckeye's picture

Definitely sounds intriguing. Reed as the QB and keeping Brax on the field would be a nice little wrinkle, considering it was the Dark Horse's position before moving over to WR for OSU.

Maestro's picture

For the record, that Cracker has no chance of tackling Rainey in the above photo.

vacuuming sucks

Buckeye06's picture

Anyone would look slow next to Debose and Rainey honestly; those guys are burners that not many in the NCAA can touch. 

I'd say Miller, Hall, Hyde, Stoneburner, Philly in that order.  Our TEs are that good and Stoney will see more in the slot next year IMO.  If they can do that and Philly stops dropping catchable balls, then he could be a much needed deep threat

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

I don't see why Hyde wasn't used more this year. Then again Stoneburner was almost completely forgotten in some games and he was the best/most consistent receiver. It's partly what made this season so frustrating.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Maestro's picture

I think Stoneburner is a much less effective blocker than Fragel and that is why he wasn't on the field all the time.

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Squirrel Master's picture

hence why Fragel will become a tackle and Stoney and Hueurmann will start at TE. also, I love how we are a power run team but how many times did any of us see a double TE formation on those first down DAVE's. lol

 

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Squirrel Master's picture

yeah, its hard to really evaluate the talent that is currently on the team because of the horrible play calling. Way too many times did I see Hall as the back in the I and Hyde as the back in the proform! HUH? even a simple mind would know you use your bruiser in the I and your scat back in the proform and have him run out for a screen or IDK perhaps run up a seem when you see the defense bring extras at Brax. A monkey fucking a footbal would get better results than Bollman this year (as well as every other year)!

I really do like the talent on this team and can see great strides under Urban. That is why I am glad he is going so hard after line players, O and D, and linebackers. Those are the places we need help on and sad to say our D-line needs some speed!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

NC_Buckeye's picture

Squirrel, I kept pointing out to people (at gamewatches) that I think our D line wasn't getting much penetration after Nate Williams went down. At least compared to previous years. IMO Simon was good and Hankins was sufficient. But nothing spectacular like in years past.

So is it just me or did it seem that opponents weren't worried much about us getting into their backfield? And how much of that was due to LB play and the fact that Heacock wasn't blitzing much this year?

Also IMO, Hankins is going to have to drop some lbs and get quicker if he wants to measure up to Meyer's standards.

 

Squirrel Master's picture

Williams truly was a hit to the D-line success! Simon and Hankins did the best they could but you can see that offenses were putting 2 guys on them knowing OSU didn't have much else. It was too easy to double team them! Shazier has the talent to be a great blitzing linebacker if used properly. Here is hoping that happens with Adolphus Washington coming in opposite Williams during obvious throwing downs. Washington may not be rated as high as Spence (and I do love Spence) but he is that speed rusher that Meyer loves to have and can be a Carlos Dunlap clone! This defense will be different!

So what I imagine is starting line-up this year for D-line is Williams, Simon, slimmed down Hankins and whoever comes out of Spence/Steve Miller. Then on 3rd and long bring in the line of Spence/Miller, Williams at DT, Simon at DT and Washington. That would be a fast and nasty line in passing situations. Who knows but I love talking about it! :)

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Jdadams01's picture

I think you'll see a lot of the D losing some pounds in the offseason. I think Meyer will want Sabino trimmed by 10-15. Klein needs to lose his gut. I honestly don't expect him to get much playing time next year, though I could be wrong. Meyer likes fast, athletic backers and Klein is the opposite. I'm hoping for a combo of a slimmer Grant, Shazier, and a slimmer Sabino as our starting backers. I think Sabino was better than Klein this year and could have been better used. I've always preferred him as a blitzer half of the time he's on the field.

Squirrel Master's picture

I would like Grant, Shazier and Sabino but I don't think any of them play like a middle linebacker to me. They all seem like outside linebackers. OSU has really got to fix the problem of not having a leader at the middle. What ever happened to the Rolle, Lairinitis and Hawks we used to have? Williams and Simon are great leaders but you gotta have that guy in the middle who can read the plays. Shazier was going on just pure talent and Sabino and Grant are not leaders as of yet.

With all the talent coming in on the D-line, Linebacker is starting to look scary thin! Hopefully can grab that Williams kid and Bam Bradley steps up at the STAR!

Oh, and forget Klein! he is a decent player but not the caliber that is needed for this defense!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

buckeyechad's picture

I don't think Klein will be playing much in the future unless he does some crazy speed drills over the offseason

bassplayer7770's picture

Somebody retweeted that Stoney is watching Aaron Hernandez highlights and is looking forward to getting started with the new offense.  Nice.

JakeBuckeye's picture

Hall is WAAAAAAAAYYYY too slow to make it Rainey in 2012.

Jdadams01's picture

This. Rainey is a 4.3-4.4 guy. Hall is a 4.7-4.8 guy. Hall may have more wiggle, though, but he'll never be a player who regularly busts 40-50 yard runs. He can with good blocking on a return because he has the shiftiness to make a few free running guys miss, but he'll never run away from people. He'll be a good positive yardage player, but never a homerun threat.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I seriously doubt that Hall is a 4.8 guy. From what I could tell, Hall was a bit banged up against Florida, but let's not get carried away. He's probably a 4.5 guy, at worst 4.6.

Btw, Hall averged 6.0 yds/carry against Florida, whereas Rainey averaged 4.4 yds/carry. Meanwhile, Boom outgained Rainey while rushing for 6.4 yds/carry. Ohio State out FD'd Florida 20-14. And that was with Walrus calling our plays and with Florida's offense playing against our so-so defense.

The reason DeBose returned that kick 99 yards was because not a single player on the Ohio State KR coverage team got off his block. Zach Boren would have run that one back for a TD.

I'll admit that the WRs had trouble getting separation this year and Ohio State could sorely use a sub-4.5 playmaker, but we don't need to undersell Hall in making those points. 

Alex's picture

Jordan Hall at WORST is a 4.5 guy...I would say he is in the 4.4s

Squirrel Master's picture

yeah, hall is much faster than you guys think. Just shows the difference between a 4.4 guy and a true 4.3 burner. Hall isn't that burner but with some training from Meyer and Co. he could become that. There is room for him to build on. That shiftiness is something Urban can work with to create Rainey. Granted Rainey was all time fast but he still needed to be taught how to use it. Hall can get there amongst some other players i.e. Devon Smith, Philly and Reed.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Alex's picture

Also, football speed is different than track speed....Hall can run a 3.8 but if he cant do it on the football field that doesn't matter too much

Squirrel Master's picture

exactly. There are players who are just straight burners but can't seem to learn how to use it properly. Then there are guys who are really not that fast but can constantly get by people with football smarts. Dane Sanzenbacher was never someone we confused with being fast but man can he create space and get around people.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Jdadams01's picture

Corey Brown is a 4.4 runner. He'd beat Hall by 2-3 steps in a 40 yard race. Hall is quick, but the kid is not that fast. There is not a single play on any film of Hall outrunning a defender. When he gets tackled on a breakaway run, it's from behind. Think back to the game at Minnesota two years ago, when he had a breakaway punt return and got ran down from behind. There's no 4.4 player that gets chased down like that. If he's a 4.4 player (he's not), it's in shorts and then when he puts on pads it drops to 4.7. Remember, Hyde ran the fastest forty out of the running backs with a 4.4. Watch for Jordan to give a 4.6 at best at the combine after his senior year.

Also, Ginn was timed as fast as 4.28 at OSU and if Jordan is 4.4, that means he's just a step or so slower. There is no way Jordan would be within 4 steps of Ted Ginn Jr. in a 40 yard race.

M tots's picture

Yes.  Hall also got chased down and tackled from behind inside the 10 on a kick return against Colorado this year

Squirrel Master's picture

basically what we are saying is he may not be that fast now but under Meyer's tutlage he can become a 4.4 guy and that type of player. It's not out of the possibility and with that ellusiveness he could be one dangerous weapon.

Gotta remember, Bollman couldn't get it out of his head to beef up the talent so they will not wear down with a more conservative offense. Meyer wants his guys lean and mean and fast!

 

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

According to Scout, when he was recruited, Hall ran a 4.50.....that's a mammoth difference from 4.7....

poop's picture

It was pretty shocking to see him return kicks against Florida. It has me believing the whole "slow Big Ten" meme. Maybe he's banged up?

timdogdad's picture

it's just hard to believe some of the formations and plays we ran this year.  urb and the new

coaches will watch film and say what were they thinking? can't wait to see what the new staff will do with this team.  looking forward to much improvement.   hate to say it because we should have just skipped this years bowl so we can play in one next year but instead we basically mailed this game in and now we have to wait 2 years for the next one.  that sucks

 

 

 

btalbert25's picture

Ya Know, It's hard to judge the quality of the receivers this year because the offensive coaching staff refused to let Braxton throw the ball.  I thought Reed looked really good, I really like Devin Smith as well.  I think Philly is going to be really good too, dude can flat out fly and I think he has the capability of making really athletic plays.  In the end I agree with Alex, I think Philly is going to be awesome. 

There are a lot of extremely talented guys on this team that were young, inexperienced, and quite frankly just not used properly this season.  It'll be nice to see Stoneburner utilized correctly.  He may be as good or better than Aaron Hernandez was.  Devin Smith and Corey Brown just weren't given the opportunity to build any chemisty with Braxton this year. Jordan Smith was used as a Dave RB this year, that's not his game.  There are less talented guys than Jordan Smith how have been great players coming out of the backfield. 

These guys are finally going to get be utilized correctly.  We won't see guys being under utilized anymore.  That's not only for this year's offense either.  I see guys like Jake Ballard playing so well in the NFL and thing WTF was Tressel and staff doing?  I watched a Packers game and the announcers went on and on about how much the Packers love Brandon Saine, and ya know what, he looks like he belongs in the NFL.  I always scoffed at the idea that Tressel just wasn't developing talent adequately and ya know now that I look back on some teams and players, and think about how they are doing now, I'm not so sure I disagree with that.  We're going to go from this season where offensive talent wasn't allowed to shine at all, and the Tressel era were guy's talent wasn't maximized, to a guy who is going to build an offense that completely utilizes all the amazing talent these athletes have.  It's going to be impressive.  

btalbert25's picture

I also think this year's team just fell victim to the constant barage of BS and negativity that followed the program this season.  Coaches were calling out other coaches, players called out playcalling and other units of the team, there were a lot of injuries, suspensions and extra suspensions, rumors constantly flying about who their coach would be, and looming NCAA sanctions hanging around out there.  That kind of crap can creep in on a team's psyche.  I don't know that it explains the poor bowl showing neccessarily but if you think this was a trying season as a fan, imagine being a player and having to put up with all the BS all year long.  Many of us expressed happiness that this year was over, and I have to imagine many on the team felt the same way.

Jdadams01's picture

Agree with you and Alex, Philly could be special in this offense. And did you mean Jordan Hall?

Also agree with you on how much some playmakers weren't used correctly in Tress/Bollman's offense. Saine especially, I think, is an intriguing case. Great hands, good straight line speed, occasional power... the right coaches will find a nice niche for a player like him.

btalbert25's picture

Yes, I did mean Hall.  I had Devin Smith on the brain.  

johnblairgobucks's picture

Sorry to be Debbie Downer, here folks.  I'm not sure it is realistic to think that Urban will be able to mold this team, as it stands today, into what it is being projected.   We had a horrible offensive line, and we are losing 3 starters off that.  Can't say it's addition by subtraction, because the depth was less skilled than what we are losing.

I've heard the same things regarding Stoneburner for 4 winters now.  The Same exact things...

I like Braxton Miller, but after watching this year go by and watching dozens of QB's throw the ball to WR's that were covered and still complete passes, Miller needs to improve alot.  It's hard to believe that none our WR's were able to get open other than Posey.  Miller needs to get confident enough to throw a pass to a WR that has a defender on his hip.

It's gonna take Meyer some time to work things out.  2012 will be a growing pains season.  2011 was painful.

BTW:  I'd like Hall at a slot WR/wingback, where i would have liked to have seen Saine.  Get Hall in Space against LBers and Safties.

MediBuck's picture

I agree with you that there will be growing pains for the team as they adapt to the new Meyer/Herman way of doing things, but I disagree that it's going to take a significant amount of time. Many of my scUM friends have been crowing about "the RichRod of Columbus" but frankly, I don't think Coach Urbs is that much of an idealogue when it comes to winning. Fig 1: OSU-UF National Championship 2007 on the backs of Ron Zook's recruiting classes :)

"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes

btalbert25's picture

What TE did Tressel ever use as a key part of the offense though?  Jake Ballard was a HUGE recruit coming in and I can remember exactly 1 play the dude made his entire career at Ohio State.  Now look at what the guy is doing.  You've heard alot about Stoneburner and not seen many results simply because the coaches have refused to use him.  

Stoneburner is a player who hasn't been given the opportunity to live up to the hype.  I don't see his lack of production as an indication of what kind of player he is.  When given a chance to shine he has.  Those chances have just been few and far between.  When they actually decide to look his way, he has impressed. 

I often get tired of hearing about how it's going to be a certain player's year.  I keep waiting on that out of Sabino(although he looked pretty good Monday) and there are always players who tear it up in the Spring game every year and we keep hearing they're going to be great.  Thing is, none of those guys, when given the opportunity make much of it.  Stoneburner is ready for greatness, he just needs the opportunity. 

Buckeyejason's picture

He needs to catch the ball half the time if he is going to be a special player

BUCKEYES BABY!

BoFuquel's picture

BM ain't the answer.Cardell will have to be it even if he can't spell ban.We be in trouble.

I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

blazers34's picture

huh???  Braxton had a GREAT year for a true freshman QB starting in the B1G.  I have confidence he will get a TON better over the next few years.  Why the hell are people so down on him?  Do you guys forget some of the good perfomances he put on this year?  The Wisconsin game was pretty awesome, and he did lead us to what should have been a game winning score in the Purdue game.  He may not be Troy Smith, but the dude has a lot of upside.

cplunk's picture

I don't think you're properly judging talent and potential. He can do things most QBs can't do (see: 80 yard TD run), and the things at which is he is bad are all things that are teachable (when to pitch, when to abandon the pocket, better touch/air on deep balls). He also has things that most QBs don't learn for years- primarily that he keeps his eyes downfield even when scrambling. Additionally, he was cool as ice under pressure and protects the ball from turnovers at a level not usually seen in freshmen.

If you think Braxton Miller isn't going to be a great college QB, with all due respect you really don't know much about how to judge a football player's ability potential.

buckeyedude's picture

I agree CP. I wonder if someone could post TP's stats from his freshmen year, and the stats from Braxton's? Would be interesting to compare, I believe.

 

 

Seth4Bucks's picture

He did look lost at times and he definitely has issues that'll need to be worked on over the next several seasons. However, a lot of QBs would look pretty bad/mediocre as a freshman playing in a Walrus offense with several key and experienced playmakers (Adams, Stoneburner, Herron, Posey, etc) out for stretches at a time. Don't forget that he didn't have the luxury of starting from the beggining and getting eased into playing against cupcakes. He also didn't get starters' reps in practice. He didn't have a QB coach worth a plugged nickel, heck he really didn't having any coaching at all.

Despite all these handicaps he still shined at times. BM is simply a playmaker and has ice in his veins. He's not as good as Troy Smith was  . . . yet. But he's got that potential to be special. We've seen wasted potential in the form of Pryor. Pryor was good, but didn't quite live up to his potential. Braxton will have to work at it, but he'll have Urban and Herman to help him tap into his full potential.

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

We went from 12 - 1 to 6 - 7 in one year.  This was not because Tressel left the cupboard bare - this was because of some graduations, this was because of some suspensions, and this was because of a loss of a great coach.  A coach that drove us nuts at times because he was conservative and because he did not pile on when he had an opponent beat.  I doubt that there are many coaches that can study a team, find their weakness, game plan to take advantage of it, and execute that plan to win better than Tressel.  We lost that leadership this year and it was GROSSLY evident!!! Way more than any of us thought!

Having said that - Urban Meyer is a coach that has proven is at LEAST as good as Tressel at game planning with a very nice side benefit - he does not take his foot off the gas until the final second is gone.  He is an aggressive coach on the field, and more importantly, on the recruiting trail.  He is a Buckeye from birth until now.

There is NO doubt in my mind that the entire Buckeye Nation will see a totally different team this coming season.  They will be in the best condition they have ever been in, they will be hungry to crush the opposition, and they will be both mentally and physically aggressive and hungry for the kill!  We had a horrid season this year with an incredible tsunami of shit on every single level - but we survived, and our future is incredibly bright!!!

AND - we have a great basketball team to get us through the next three months!!!!

 

 

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

johnblairgobucks's picture

Yeah Tressel was superb.  He coached us in 3 BCS NC Games and 5 other BCS games in 10 years folks.  Yet, it took him a full season to get a few of his recruits on the roster.  Took him a season to change the atmosphere that hung in Columbus as the John Cooper era eroded.  Do you recall the John Cooper era eroding, poor performances on the field, some off field issues, lack of discipline with players..... seems kinda similar to this past year.

I hope the best for OSU.  It's just hard to imagine Meyer changing everything around in the next 9 months.  I feel it will at least take 21 months till full steam ahead.

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

John - I'm an old guy!  One of my best friends was (and still is) married to Dick Lebeau's niece so we use to get his tickets to the game at Ann Arbor Community College.  I was in the front row when that fucker Desmond Howard did that pose a mere 10 feet from me and it was my best friend that kept me from hit him with the frozen bottle of Bud Light I was about to hurl at him.  So, when you ask me do I remember the Cooper era - yes I do because I was there for every single one of those 13 games.

Earle Bruce left the cupboard bare for Coop - which prompted Coop to say we had too many slow white guys on the team.  Cooper was a great recruiter and did not leave the team in a lurch and it took Tressel 1 wasted season to get this team in shape. 

Tressel left the cupboard pretty well stacked and that is why I believe Urban comes in and gets this program immediately back on track.  I do not believe it will take much to get this team in shape, especially since they went through this year and are elated to buy into what Urban is selling.  I don't think this coming year is going to be anything less than amazing because the Big Ten teams are not going to be prepared for Urban's system built on the great athletic ability that we currently have!

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

johnblairgobucks's picture

Hope you're right about OSU in 2012.

Buckeyejason's picture

What makes you think we have this amazing athletic ability all over the roster..besides a freak one at QB, because I haven't seen it all year? I see so many athletic teams in college football..we're nothing special..yet at least.

BUCKEYES BABY!

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

I am looking at a team that went 12 - 1 in 2010 and Tressel had a fairly decent recruiting class coming in.  Yes, we lost talent from graduation but we were looking to seriously compete for the national title in 2011 prior to the implosion.  I would not read one iota into what went on the field in 2011 regarding talent.  This team was lacking everything required to complete in a big time college environment.  They had NO real coaching, no real direction, no real motivation, and no real game plan, either offensively or defensively.  The coaching staff was in a state of disarray to say the least so in the end, you have a group of very very young athletes, with little or no senior leadership, going out and playing teams that were much better prepared an much better coached.  The Buckeyes were basically playing street ball and competing on their own raw talent. 

What I am saying is that given Urban's amazing coach skills, as proven with every job he has had, he will be able to whip this program and players in shape, game plan with incredible expertise, and take advantage of the players he has, which are quite young, and quite talented.  Unlike the last season where these kids were set up to fail, this coming season, these kids will have a great foundation to be successful.

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

Doc's picture

I totally agree. This year was lost. There was no offensive plan, other than not to turn it over. The team is young and in desperate need of coaching/leadership.

"Say my name."

buckeyedude's picture

C'mon, Jason! I know it's not always a good measuring stick, but weren't most of Tressel's, if not all of his recruiting classes in the top 10 every frickin' year?  If you are consistantly pulling in top players from around the country, you have talent. I mean seriously, this Buckeye team has potential, it just wasn't used properly last fall. Urban is going to turn this team around in a hurry.   I have no doubt. No doubt.

 

 

cplunk's picture

I'll give you a better measuring stick- there are more OSU players in the NFL than any school other than the U. Trust me, we're loaded with talent. The issues were this year, and to some extent always, 1) How it was used, 2) How it was developed.

bucknut24's picture

What I am curious to see is if any players leave the program because they don't want to commit to what Meyer wants from them.  Some of these players are used to taking it easy at times and I don't see Meyer letting that happen.  He is going to push these kids all the time and I'm wondering if they will be able to take it. 

My guess on the next season is we will be a better team but I really don't know by how much.  I have rewatch several of the games and at times this team looks so bad even against mediocre competition its hard to believe.  Sometimes I am surprised we even won 6 games.  I way overestimated what this team could do in 2011 and so I am going to be a bit conservative with 2012 even though Meyer will improve the team.  I think 2013 or 2014 will be when he gets it rolling.

As far as Braxton goes, he did an amazing job these season IMHO considering he was coached by a Audio/Visual guy who had no previous experience.  Also, I think the WR's will be better because they will be coached by a WR's coach not a converted RB coach which never made sense to me to have Drayton do that.

The good thing is we will be better with Meyer and staff.

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Maestro's picture

Don't disagree that this team was incredibly frustrating at times and played some bad football.  Yet, there was only one loss all season by more than 7 points.  Under the solid leadership of an experienced head coach even this year's patchwork team wins more than it loses.....and might have won 10 games.  Sure you could say that a few of the wins were very close too, but the point is that even this team was a few breaks away from playing in the B1G CCG.  It won't take Meyer long to right the ship.  2013 team will be preseason top 5.

vacuuming sucks

btalbert25's picture

Meyer is a better coach that Tressel, and he showed it in Tempe. He prepares for big games better.  He recruits better, and he maximizes the talent he has.  It's not a knock on Tressel, and Tressel was a great coach.  Meyer, however, may be the best coach in the college game.  So, with that said, there is a lot of talent on this team.  The O-line is going to be an issue, but running plays out of the shotgun with short quick tosses to Hall or Stoneburner will make up for some of that.  Braxton will need to improve, but he seems like a really bright kid who works pretty hard.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is much improved next season.  

This team could look pretty good next year. 

nickma71's picture

You would think that idiot Bill Belichick was designing the running plays last year. He did the same thing with Eric Metcalf. (being a cheater and learning the play before hand does not make you smart)

BrewstersMillions's picture

Come on man, you can't really be calling Belichick an idiot. I know Browns fans are salty but Belly might go down as the NFL's all time best. Sour grapes to think he is an idiot.

Do I come off as arrogant? Shame on me, I was hoping it would more obvious.