Thursday Skull Session

By Alex on December 9, 2010 at 6:00a

 All's Well That Ends Wells When Thad Gibson left early for the NFL, Keith Wells was thought to have a shot at earning quality playing time this year. That thought ended before the season, though, as Wells had to leave OSU due to academic reasons. The Georgia native didn't go too far though, enrolling at Columbus State to sort out his issues in the classroom. His return has been rumored for a bit, but it's looking more and more like Wells will be back in Scarlet and Gray starting this spring, as his grades are in order and the staff is willing to take him back. This is a good thing, as Cam Heyward and Dexter Larimore depart from the defensive line and there is a lot of uncertainty in who will line up across from Nathan Williams next season. Look for Wells to compete with Solomon Thomas, Melvin Fellows, Garrett Goebel, Adam Bellamy, JT Moore, and Darryl Baldwin for playing time in 2011. 

 Defensive End Savior If Keith Wells can't get the job done, it looks like the Bucks have made ground on someone who can. In addition to locking down a visit from the top JuCo lineman in Cornelius "Tank" Carradine for this weekend, it appears Jim Tressel has also convinced the nation's top high school player to take an official visit. Jadeveon Clowney will apparently visit the weekend of January 28th, according to Bucknuts ($), who confirmed through Clowney's high school coach. They always say "look for the visit" when it comes to recruits, and that has happened here, so interest in OSU from Clowney should not be overlooked. I still think he ends up down south (other visits are to South Carolina, Clemson, FSU, and Alabama), but the fact that he is visiting and that JT gets the last visit is certainly a good sign. 

 Urban Legend Everyone has caught the news now that Florida head coach Urban Meyer has stepped down, effective after the Outback Bowl. Bob Redman of Scout says something must be wrong with Meyer, saying he was shocked at the news after Meyer told his freshman the Sunday after the UGA game that he would be there for there entire careers. Redman must have forgotten who he was dealing with here. On the other side of the spectrum, Will Brinson of CBS speculates a Meyer-Tim Tebow reunion, suggesting Meyer could be a Denver Broncos head coaching candidate. I truly think Meyer is not going to coach next season and will accept an administrative role with UF to help ease in the next coach and help finish off this recruiting class and limit the damage of de-commits and transfers. 

Meyer leaving is great news for the Buckeyes for a number of prospects. Jabari Gorman was essentially down to OSU and Florida, and now the Buckeyes should see their odds to land the good friend of commit Jeremy Cash improve. That could change if either Miami or Florida hire someone to his liking, but stability has to be a factor here. Curtis Grant is another prospect who had UF and OSU in his top two, and being from Virginia, this can only help the Bucks. WR Ja'Juan Story and LB/DE Ryan Shazier are UF commits who had the Bucks high on their list before becoming Gators, so watch out what happens to them as well.

Meanwhile, the stellar freshman class that Urban just signed, including one-time Buckeye lean Sharrif Floyd, appears to be a little freaked out by the news. Makes you wonder if guys like Floyd and Sentreal Henderson would be in Columbus if they had known what was heading their way.

 Minnesota Mustache Man Familiarize yourself with new Minnesota head coach, Jerry Kill, in this question and answer piece (Part I) (Part II) with Adam Rittenberg. I wasn't a big fan of the Kill hire and thought the Gophers could have gotten a bit of a bigger name to come to the Twin Cities, but it will be interesting to see what kind of success he has after enjoying time at Southern Illinois and Northern Illinois. At worst he can bring the Gophers the best prospects from Illinois that Northwestern and the Illini pass on right? Plus, he's downright entertaining compared to the relatively boring community of Big Ten coaches. Oh yeah, Kill also has a kill-er mustache

 Indiana Hired A Coach? Yes they did, and while news didn't really spread far or wide, their man is Oklahoma offensive coordinator, Kevin Wilson. Interesting hire for a team that's offense was pretty solid and needed a tremendous amount of help on defense, but Wilson is someone who can definitely play off his successes with the Sooners and bring some better talent into Bloomington. Rittenberg's take on the hire is here and this will definitely be another situation to keep a close eye on. If he can get IU consistently to a bowl game, he will become a legend there.


Comments Show All Comments

Poe McKnoe's picture

I don't see Tank in S&G, so it would be great to see Keith Wells back.  To me, he was the defensive star of the last spring game (not that that says anything).

Mike Sanders's picture

It's good to see that Keith Wells is doing better. OSU and Columbus State have good student support programs, which have saved my bacon before.

About the rumor that BOBBY PETRINO IS RESIGNING BEFORE THE SUGAR BOWL TO TAKE THE FLORIDA JOB; it's just a rumor! Don't say that he may be leaving, or else you might freak out our Razorback friends down in Fayetteville. It would be very unkind to spread that rumor, especially on Arkansas fan sites, so don't repeat it!

iball's picture

I really think Dan Mullen is the head candidate for the UF job. He's the best bet for continuity of the program/keeping recruits from bolting.

Christmas would be sweet to land Gorman and Grant, along with Barnett coming back and Moeller, the secondary could look pretty good for a while.

I'd like to ask Shariff Floyd about his comments on "a program that will truly stand the test of time" How'd that 7-5 season treat ya big boy? Enjoy your bloomin onion.

I think Petrino would surpass Saban as the slitheriest snake in football if he went to Florida. I don't think it happens tho, I don't see any recruiting ties Petrino has to Florida.

YAAAAWWWNNN. Looks like Minny and Indiana will stay Minny and Indiana.

Stallone belongs in the Hall.

Pitt was stupid for canning Wannstache.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

btalbert25's picture

I don't know about Arkansas, but when Petrino was at Lousiville and had them really rolling, he recruited Florida hard.  Recruiting kids to Florida wouldn't be hard for him to do at all.

Buckeye_Mafia's picture

Listening to Herbstreit talk about how Florida had the BEST coaching job and ANY coach in Division I or II would leave their current position for the UF job and how UF is THE PREMIER school to play and coach at further proved to me his mancrush on Meyer, anything and everything UF and SEC is beyond normal. Please Herbstreit, move out of Ohio, turn in your Buckeye pass, and just live in Gainesville. He has been relegated to Carson Palmer status to many of us. I don't care if he is an ESPN analyst, no other "nuetral" analyst built up Urban Meyer and the Florida Gators like he did. Please JoePa, smash that piece of shit Meyer and the Gators into the earth and help send that program into complete disarray, Wolverine and Notre Dame style. I still think Meyer was crooked. And that he ran a shady program.....28 arrests in 6 years? Classy...

"At critical moments throughout the season, we learned about the character of this football team.  This was a team of true character, of true resilience." -- President Barack Obama

iball's picture

Haterade. Florida is ONE of the premiere jobs/programs in the country. Kirky's just doin his job keepin it real. Herbie grew up in Ohio, played for the Buckeyes and still resides in Columbus. His Buckeye pass is alot bigger than yours or mine is. I bet one of his 4 sons will don the S&G too one day.

Herbie bleeds S&G.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

Nappy's picture

Sometimes keepin it real goes wrong

I never saw a football player make a tackle with a smile on his face

iball's picture

Why does keepin it real always go wrong with my wife?

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

I'm taking Ib's side on this one.  Kirk is classy and a HUGE supporter of tOSU.  I am a little tired of everyone doggin' on Herbie.  We've all heard Herbie talk about his fandom of tOSU and how he struggles to keep that away from his commentary.

Just what he has done with the Classic bringing those speedy Florida kids up to the 'Shoe to play is big.  Let them get a taste of playing in something like the Horseshoe to help us recruit.  Him still living in Ohio has got to be a sign of his commitment to his home state. 


Herbstreit was on talk radio here in south Florida yesterday AM (as he is every Weds AM).  This was 8 hours before the Urban Meyer resignation and he was talking for 1/2 hour about how fantastic the University of Miami Hurricanes job is, and how "several top-notch" coaches have contacted HIM about HIS feelings about the job.  He was saying that there are coaches (I cant mention the names) who really want to come to Miami and just need to have the proper offers made, blah, blah, blah.

In my opinion, Herbie has jumped the shark and actually thinks he is a relevant part of what goes on in the college football world.  He jumps on the bandwagons of the flavor of the month, and has developed an over-inflated sense of self.  Notice that every game he calls ends up with Herbie talking about how HE has seen all the best teams and how HE knows that this team could play with any team in America and how He has talked to the best kids and their families 

I no longer (since 2007) watch Gameday or any college football shows on ESPN as Herbie, Desmond Howard, and Chris Fowler are too much for me to stomach. These shows have become all about them instead of what is truly happening.  Where are the stories about Tressel running the most consistent and winningest program, where are the stories about Ferentz getting all the accolades and having so many arrests??/   Oh, Cam Newton cheated??  Well, we dont have evidence so lets move on.... where the hell was that when Clarrett went thru his stuff??? 

iball's picture

Herbie has jumped the shark and actually thinks he is a relevant part of what goes on in the college football world. 

He doesn't think it, he is. Where would tOSU be if everybody from the state of Ohio was a total OSU homer? Most folks totally ignore all the positives he's had to say about the Buckeyes. Not just anyone gets a seat next to Musberger for mostly every major CFB game. Wanna talk about homers? Have you heard Jesse Palmer lately? Would you rather have that d-bag telling you whats relevant in the CFB world?

There's a reason why guys like Palmer and Andre Ware are where they are, because they're complete closed minded buffoons.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

robert goulet's picture

Herbie does well at striking the balance between being impartial and being a homer.  If we suck, he's going to say it.  If the SEC rules, he's going to say it.  But I think he is trying a little too hard to become a sensationalistic reporter.  A buddy of mine saw him out to lunch in Columbus at the height of the whole expansion talk and Herbie told him, "Notre Dame to the Big Ten; lock it down".  Mix that in with the "Les Miles is going to Michigan" debacle 3 years ago, and he either needs to get better sources or stop trying to lunge at every opportunity.

Natty Light's picture

the rest of the buckeyes might not like it, but as a reported he has to acknowledge that during meyers 6 years in gainsville, he had the best team in CFB.  2 NC's, best winning % during that time even after a 7-5 season, players in the NFL, etc. 

iball's picture

Right, and yes, he did cry his way into the MNC in 06, but it was legitmized by the ass stomping they put on our 12-0 high horse riding asses. Make all the excuses you want. Florida wanted that more, period. That game alone changed my perception of Tress forever.

In 07, LSU d-line just demoralized our o-line.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

btalbert25's picture

I didn't hear those comments, I heard him say it was one of the premier coaching jobs in the country, and well it kinda is.  They have great facilities, they are in the SEC which is the conference everyone talks about, and well you have some of the greatest high school football in the country in your back yard.  Not to mention the in state competition for that talent, just isn't good right now. 

There are premeir jobs in college football and Florida definitely fits that classification.  I have a feeling he'd say the samething about Ohio State, Texas, and Penn State as well.

Jeff @ Fox Sports Ohio's picture

Kirk Herbtreit is doing his job.  He's an analyst, and he's analyst for ALL of college football, not just Ohio State.

When he's on the set, he's a professional for all of college football.

But when's on the sideline, he will always be this guy....

BED's picture

Thanks for this!  People need to remember, we are a family! Granted, our family is 150K plus, but we all have the same mother, and her name is the Ohio State University.

"Tho' age may dim our mem'ry's store, We'll think of happy days of yor, True to friend and frank to foe, As sturdy sons of O-hi-o."

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

tomcollins's picture

What are people expecting out of Herbie, a Scarlet and Grey version of Lou Holtz?  Screw that.  Holtz is a funny novelty but you can't tale him seriously.  I'm not even sure he takes himself seriously.

iball's picture

Exactly, Herbie strikes the balance. On one hand you have comedians like May and Holtz, then you have serious, well informed, honest insight from Herbie. ESPN has to appeal to all demographics.

Although, I really admire and respect coach Holtz. He is a true example of what a man should be. He sees CFB for what it is, a game.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

Buckeye_Mafia's picture

Sorry. Not trying to be a dick. But you guys hold Herbstreit to such a high regard because he WAS a Buckeye. He isn't anymore. And as the above poster mentioned, he only talks about himself and what is the current flavor of the month. He no longer "bleeds Scarlet and Gray" because he doesn't need to. You all have blinders on. The Herbstteit classic has nothing g to do w/helping tOSU land recruits. It has to do w/him getting recognition, him getting paid, and him exploiting tOSU because he PLAYED at tOSU. Dude is not a Buckeye anymore, he is a sellout.

"At critical moments throughout the season, we learned about the character of this football team.  This was a team of true character, of true resilience." -- President Barack Obama

iball's picture

So if someone gave you 10 mil to say UF is good, you wouldn't do it? Gimme a break, Buckeye or not, Herbie's first allegiance lies with his family. You obviously know nothing about Herbie. He goes to HS BBall games to watch OSU recruits for goodness sake.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

tomcollins's picture

You can give me $0 to say Florida has been very good.  It's pretty ignorant to think otherwise.

Being a Buckeye doesn't mean we have to live in Egypt and constantly being in denial.  The Florida job is one of the top in the country.  They have a huge recruiting base, they have fantastic facilities, and they have a ton of support.  It's a destination job.  It might even be the best one out there.  BFD.  How does that affect Ohio State at all?  Who cares.

F O U R's picture

Sweatervester doesn't get it.  It's like arguing with a foam finger. 

btalbert25's picture

I think Herbie goes out of his way to make to be impartial though.  The sad thing about it is, if you talk to fans of other schools, they always say they can't stand Herbstreit because all he does is talk about Ohio State.  At any rate, any time his kids are on the set they are decked out in Buckeye gear.  He talked about going to games to watch Sullinger play when he was in high school.  He's a Buckeye through and through, I just wish once in a while, he didn't go out of his way to be impartial. 

In my opinion, listening to games Spielman does, he stays pretty impartial, you don't here him thumping his chest about the Buckeyes all the time, but at the same time he's not affraid to talk positively about them when he is on a broadcast.  I know he's a total homer on the radio.

tomcollins's picture

Yeah I remember when he picked Miami to win against Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl in 2003.  Knew he was a hater at that point.

btalbert25's picture

Dude, I like Herbie.  I do think he tries to avoid talking about them as much as possible on TV though, and in the end SEC fans, other Big 10 fans all think he is this huge Ohio State homer anyway.  He talks more about the Cincinnati Reds on Game Day than he does the Buckeyes is all I'm saying. 

Chris Lauderback's picture


Isn't that the same game in which he shows up in photos jumping up and down after a big play by OSU? Yeah, hater indeed. Give me a break, people. Herbie is as Buckeye as they come. To think otherwise is flat out wrong.

btalbert25's picture

I think he was being sarcastic.

Chris Lauderback's picture

LOL...probably right. I'm hungover and just read quickly. Herbie used to annoy me a little but I've come to see the light in recent years. I just can't understand why anyone passionate and informed about Buckeye football would think Herbie doesn't love OSU.

Jeff @ Fox Sports Ohio's picture

He picked Miami because it was hard to believe that Miami would lose that game....but a hater?

Look at how he REALLY felt about that game....

Lay off Herbie.  His blood is scarlet and gray.

tomcollins's picture

Obvious sarcasm is not obvious enough. 

He picked Ohio State in that game.  Even I couldn't do that.  I traveled across the country on the hope we could keep it close and I could see a good game, and maybe, just maybe, win.  His Ohio State pick screamed homer at the time (how many point underdogs were we against one of the "Greatest teams of all time"?).

When's the last time he picked against Ohio State on Gameday?

cal3713's picture

Ha!  Nice pic.

tomcollins's picture

I don't see what that picture really shows other than Herbie being a lot taller than I pictured him.  I'm surprised he played football, he looks like he could have been an excellent center in basketball.

Jeff @ Fox Sports Ohio's picture

OK, that time I got the sarcasm.

tomcollins's picture

I think I found the ideal Buckeye candidate for a position on ESPN:

"Pay no attention to the SEC, the Big Ten is the premiere football conference in the country.  Florida, trash.  Minnesota would thump them."

btalbert25's picture

I think there has been only one person disagreeing that Florida would be an elite program to take over.  In fact, my first comment today said essentially the same thing you did, great facilities, great competition, great recruiting.  It would take someone who obviously doesn't pay attention to NCAA football, or someone who is extremely blind to the world outside of Columbus, to no realize this. 

The_Lurker's picture

Living in Florida, I hear all the time about how Herbie is a total Ohio State homer. I guess it's like officiating, if both sides are mad, you must be doing it right. Kudos to Herbstreit. He's a journalist and is good at staying objective. Having been a professional journalist, I know that's not always easy to do. Personally, I think Herbie does a great job.

The fact is that the Florida job is one of the best in college football. The other top jobs are Texas, USC and Ohio State. I'd put those four right at the top. I would not be surprised if coaches were calling Herbstreit and asking his opinion. This happens a lot, and is a sign of respect to the journalist. A friend of mine covers an NHL team for a major metropolitan newspaper and gets calls from GMs and coaches often. The fact that Herbie mentioned that doesn't make him a sellout and it doesn't mean he's putting himself above the story.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I don't mean this to be wishy washy, or to play peacemaker, etc., but why can't both sides be right? On the one hand, no one should question Herby's loyalty to Ohio State, or his tremendous work (90 percent of the time) as an analyst, interviewer, t.v. personality. We appreciate and applaud his high school classic.

On the other hand, Herby's mostly outstanding work and unimpeachable Buckeye status does not erase the possibility that he has a man crush on SECdom, which I feel is kinda short-sighted. Yes, the SEC has been dominant the last 7-8 years, no doubt, but not quite as dominant as the hacks and SEC necks believe. Moreover, let's not assume that it's going to last.

There is a tendency with EVERYONE nowadays, myself included, to have that short-attention span, video-game-age mentality, while also seeing the current champs as head-and-shoulders better than the runners-up (which become "losers"). It's one thing to say that Florida in 2006 demolished Ohio State because of superior speed, speed, speed - which is dubius in itself - but when the Herbies of the world suggest that SEC tailgating is demonstrably superior to BT tailgating, they are engaging in 21st century-style hyberbole. We live in a hyberbolic age, I understand, but when Herby goes a little too SEC goofy, we should be able to call him on it.     

tomcollins's picture

How many SEC tailgates have you been to?  How many non-Ohio State B10 tailgates have you been to?

I do know that Ohio State tailgaiting >>>> Texas.  From everyone I've heard who has gone to an SEC tailgait, especially for a night game, the atmosphere is just plain nuts.  Think about it from their perspectives.  They live in trailers, they have no pro sports teams, work crappy jobs.  This is the only thing they actually have.  Of course they are going to go overboard.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I hear ya (and Herby), but tailgating is a subjective thing, right? It's not like he's being the purely objective analyst when he starts giving his opinions on tailgating atmospheres, where it's more fun to hang out, etc. 

Sure, maybe if we're just doing a straight "head count" on total numbers of tailgaters, trailers, discarded bottles of Old Crow, etc., maybe the SEC tailgates would score higher - I don't know. 

I've been to several BT tailgates; I've been to tailgates in the south; I've hung out in SEC cities; but, no, I've not been to any SEC tailgates. 

My point, though, is what's a great atmosphere to one person might be sketchy to another. Emotionally/spiritually, how could a hard core Buckeye get a better vibe at a Florida tailgate than a Buckeye or even Penn State tailgate? It's not like Herby is saying that SEC are awesome, but so are BT tailgates. He says SEC tailgates are superior. That just seems like HE'S THE ONE talking out his ass - I'm just questining his sense of certaintly on such a matter.   

JakeBuckeye's picture

Have any of you guys read this from Herbie?

“When I'm on the air, I would challenge anybody to watch me when I do a game and try to figure out what school I went to. When I'm off the air I am an Ohio State fan. Sorry. I went to school there, I was a captain there, my kids wear their Ohio State jerseys almost everyday. They wake up singing the fight song. We're an Ohio State family. [About the photo] I wasn't on the air, I'm going to go crazy. My work speaks for itself. The way I'm fair and objective – sometimes I probably go too far in being critical toward Ohio State, but I had a ton of people send me that photo.”

There you go, solves all of this argument. He self admittedly is a bit too critical of Ohio State on air, but he's Buckeye through and through as you can see through that photo Chris posted and this that I posted.


btalbert25's picture

Cool, now on to recruiting.  I'm pretty stoked to see Clowney is taking an official visit.  May still be a longshot, but this is great news in my opinion.

Jason Priestas's picture

We actually interviewed Herbie in August and he had some interesting things to say on his fandom and how it's perceived sometimes:

JakeBuckeye's picture

It seems as if Pryor is starting to get frustrated with getting no love on all-Big Ten teams or national awards due to the stat padding that happens when you're a spread offense QB and the fact that he doesn't do that.

He's just speaking the truth here, honestly. We all know that he'd be doing the same thing Cam Newton is if he ran in Guz Mahlzan's offense. I just wish he wasn't public about it, but then again, I would probably want to go public with it too if all these guys started getting attention for things that he can do better than them.

tomcollins's picture

It's one of those cases where he is likely right (although maybe a bit too cocky in his own abilities), but shouldn't be opening his mouth like that.

I hate all the accolades system players get.  All the Texas Tech/Hawaii joke QBs, Denards, Pat Whites, etc...  It's comparing apples and oranges.  I really hope that Pryor can transform himself into an NFL QB so this journey was worth it for him and other players will see the dead ends that going the gimmick route is, but if he fails, a lot of those types just might go for what they can do now and not think of their future.  Seeing Tebow fail in the NFL is the best thing to happen to Tressel's recruiting.

btalbert25's picture

Honestly, he wouldn't have to be a system QB to put up gawdy stats.  If he would've played the 4th quarter of a lot of games his stats would be better.  If, when the team is up 3 TD's they kept him rolling instead of turning around and handing the ball off, his stats would be much better. 

I don't blame him for being frustrated or sharing his opinion.  I want to see him pissed off and proving to the world he's damn good.  It could be the nudge he needs to push him over the top.  I look for a very dominant game out of him in the bowl game.  We know how hard he works, we know how far he has come, and we know there is no ceiling on how good this guy can be.  Now he has some extra motivation.  Next year we could be saying Cam who?

tomcollins's picture

The part that bothers me is that he thinks he is already that good.  It's almost like an excuse for any mistake he's made.  If it makes him work harder, fantastic.  I want him to have a chip on his shoulder and want to prove something.  But he NEEDS to get better to be compared to the Mallett's and Luck's of the world.  He's a ways off right now.

And no one cares that much about garbage stats.  Look at his stats against the best teams we played.  Besides Oregon, he really hasn't done much.  There is a big dropoff in his big games.  ~50% completions, sub-200 yards passing, a few INTs, etc...  No one cares if he puts up 400 or 500 yards on Indiana just like Denard dropped off the Heisman map once he played a real defense.

I do want him to be hungry and want him to work his ass off in the offseason and not have a sense of entitlement.  I'm not sure he gets it, and this quote might show the opposite of what you are saying.  He thinks he's already there and just is a victim (or rather others are a beneficiary) of systems that don't really mean they are as good as they are.  He's always had a bit of a big head, but he also is critical of himself when he makes mistakes.  When you are as gifted as he is at anything and you start to struggle, it's a really awakening experience.  Some people crumble up and make excuses, others finally have to work as hard as everyone else has had to, and become something great.  I'm really hoping Pryor falls in the second category.  He has a ton of gifts, but gifts alone won't get him to the next level.

dmurder's picture

I think he has faced some pretty good defenses in his tenure.


Miami FL 16th ranked total defense

Iowa 15th ranked total defense

Wisconsin 22nd ranked total defense

Arkansas 34th ranked total defense


USC 40th ranked total defense

Wisconsin 17th ranked total defense

Penn St 9th ranked total defense

Iowa 10th ranked total defense

Oregon 35th ranked total defense

"We have always had the best damn band in the land, now we have the best damn team in the land"- Jim Tressel 1-03-03

tomcollins's picture

I know he's faced some good ones.  Look at his results in them, though.  They are decent, but not stellar.


Miami: 12/27, 233 yards 44.4% 1 TD, 0 INT, 20 for 133 rushing, 1 TD

Wisconsin 14/28, 156 yards, 50%, 0 TD, 1 INT, 18 for 56 rushing

Iowa 178/33, 195 yards, 54.5%, 1 TD, 2 INT, 15 for 78 rushing

USC: 11/25, 177 yards, 44%, 0 TD, 1 INT, 10 for 36 rushing

Wisconsin: 5/13, 87 yards, 38.5% 1 TD, 1 INT, 10 for 35 rushing

Penn State: 8/17, 125 yards, 47.1%, 2 TD, 0 INT, 5 for 50 rushing, 1 TD

Iowa: 14/17, 93 yards, 82.4%, 0 TD, 0 INT, 8 for 29 rushing

Oregon: 23/37, 266 yards, 62.2%, 2 TD, 1 INT, 20 for 72 rushing


Those are pretty poor stats, outside of the Oregon game.  Iowa is acceptable, but it was all short dink passes.  My point is not that he didn't play good defenses, but he struggled against them.    Those are good defenses, and yeah, a lot of QBs would struggle there.  But that's why he's not viewed as an elite QB, and only a very good one.  To improve he needs to have more games like the Oregon one in the big games.  There was a solid improvement from 2009 to 2010 in big games, though.  He just needs to make a few more steps forward.

Kyle's picture

We'll all be saying Cam who because he, Cecil and their bag of cash in the Auburn duffel bag will be headed to the NFL.

dmurder's picture

Urban Meyer is jim tressel replacement in 2 years.

"We have always had the best damn band in the land, now we have the best damn team in the land"- Jim Tressel 1-03-03

The_Lurker's picture

I have no problem with TP's comments. He's confident in his abilities and he's right - he could dominate in those offenses. His passing numbers will never be as good as they could be somewhere else because JT's a conservative coach. In big games, especially. I want him to play with a chip on his shoulder. I'm hope the All-Big Ten snub continues to motivate him. He should have been on the second team. I mean, let's be honest, where would this team be if Bauserman was at the helm all year?

btalbert25's picture

And that's just it, with his banged up knee last year and the quad this year, you really couldn't have him carry the ball 30 times.  That's why I have no problem when he steps out of bounds rather than take a big hit.  This team minus Pryor, is not a good team.  Now the knee brace is gone and the Quad should be fine, I expect to see him running a lot more in the Sugar Bowl.

btalbert25's picture

And that's just it, with his banged up knee last year and the quad this year, you really couldn't have him carry the ball 30 times.  That's why I have no problem when he steps out of bounds rather than take a big hit.  This team minus Pryor, is not a good team.  Now the knee brace is gone and the Quad should be fine, I expect to see him running a lot more in the Sugar Bowl.

tomcollins's picture

What does Tressel's conservative nature have to do with Pryor's performances in big games?

Tressel realized they sucked, and decided to have him throw less (except against Oregon).  Look at Troy Smith's stats.  Where was Tressel's conservative nature holding him back?

There really are a few questions:

1) Are system QBs that TP criticizes overrated due to that system?  Of course.

2) Would TP do just as well as them in that system, if not better?  I think the answer is yes.

3) Is TP an elite QB?  I think the answer is no, at least for now.  It just shows those other guys aren't likely to be elite QBs either.

I didn't take any of this to look like it was motivating him.  It would be nice if it did, but it really comes across as him rationalizing why he's not the center of attention anymore.  No one is calling for Bauserman.  Pryor is our best shot at winning.  He's not progressing quite at the rate we could have hoped, but he is progressing.  If he worked as hard as Denard Robinson, who while fast, is still missing a ton of Pryor's natural skillset, he probably would be sitting in New York this week and not crying to the media about how unfair it is.  But who knows, maybe he is working his ass off and still is not progressing.  In that case, he just might be missing it.

Do I want him as our QB for as long as we can have him?  Of course.  But I wouldn't touch him in the NFL other than a gamble type late round pick.

btalbert25's picture

I guess I didn't take his comments as criticizing those players.  In fact the article went on to say he has congratulated each one of these QB's on a great season.  I agree he's not an elite QB, but he's a damn good one at this point in time.  I'm not sure where you get the notion that he doesn't work as hard as Denard Robinson either.  Everything I've ever heard and read says that TP is relentless in his preparations.  Maybe you know something I don't, hard to say, but I've never seen where anyone has said TP is anything less than a hard worker. 

My opinions about him being motivated to show everyone what he's made of dont' come from comments in this article(although I don't have the same take away you do) but more from a great player getting snubbed.  Everyone carries on about how valuable Denard or Persa were to their teams, but I would counter that TP was much more valuable to his team.  Tate can be plugged in and the offense isn't much differnt for Michigan.  Persa went down and his team was still average.  Remove TP from the Buckeyes and they go from a very good team to bad.

tomcollins's picture

Re First paragraph: yeah, I have no idea what he does with his time.  Only he knows everything.  From all accounts, DR did an absolute crazy amount of work and his improvements showed.  I'm not calling TP lazy, but it's common with entitled super gifted people to not quite *get* how to improve since everything comes so naturally.  He is improving, and might not just have all the capabilities to make it to the elite level, and so be it.  I just want to make sure he doesn't write off hard work to get better and that he's getting some kind of raw deal.

I agree with the 2nd part.  However, losing TP, we lose maybe 2 more games max.  Possibly even just 1 (Iowa, Miami being the maybe).  Even with Bauserman.  We made it to the title game with Boeckman.  We would not be a "bad" team without him, although the drop off considerably and a lot of games become closer.  We would still be a top 15 team without him.  We just definitely wouldn't be top 10.

The_Lurker's picture

JT being a conservative coach impacts TP's passing NUMBERS - not necessarily his overall performance. Although, if you believe in such a thing as a QB's rhythm, it's pretty tough to get into a rhythm slamming the ball into the line twice for two yards and throwing every third-and-long, no? Can't get any rhythm going with only 14 to 18 attempts in a game.

And I don't believe Pryor has a problem with D. Robinson getting his props. I think he feels a little slighted to be placed behind Persa and Tolzien, and rightfully so, in my opinion. But I do believe he'll use this as motivation.

tomcollins's picture

If Rhythm was the issue, you'd see pretty much no accurate low volume throwers in rushing heavy offenses.

But look at someone like Greg McElroy who is not really that talented of a guy.  They throw the ball 25 times per game.  He's hitting 70.6% of his passes with 9.35 YPA, 3.8 TD:INT ratio.

Compare that to Pryor.  Throwing 25 times per game, 65.8% passes, 8.56 YPA, 2.25 TD:INT ratio.

He's had 4 games where he threw under 20 times.  His worst game had him at 64.7% of those.  Rhythm is not the issue.  Consistency is.  Either receivers dropping it or him throwing duds of passes or just misreading the defense.  Maybe Pryor is special and needs extra rhythm, but that's not a requirement for every QB (or even most).

The_Lurker's picture

Comparing Pryor to McElroy is futile, because some QBs could be rhythm QBs while others aren't - and I'm not saying TP is - and McElroy just might be an overall more accurate thrower. However, as I said before, your percentage is going to go down with the more third-and-medium/long yardage situations you're in. So no matter how you slice it, your numbers should NOT be as good against tougher opponents as they are against weaker opponents (or am I oversimplifying this whole thing?).

All you can ask of any college QB is improvement. TP raised his completion percentage 10 points this year. He threw for 500 more yards, his INTs stayed the same but his TDs went up by seven (with one game to play).

I still say by any fair benchmark, he is deserving of second team all-conference honors.

tomcollins's picture

There were a lot of QBs in the conference that were solid.  I can understand him missing it, but could justify him getting it.

But yeah, maybe Pryor is a special snowflake and needs to get in a rhythm and others do not.  I'd like to see the breakdown by yardage situation by Pryor, but that's beyond the work I'm going to put into this.  Do you have the data that he was doing poorly on 3rd and long?  I seem to remember a lot of first down passes that were incomplete against Wisconsin, so I couldn't blame being in those situations on Tressel.  Having some kind of analysis of Pryor vs. other QBs while adjusting for situations would be incredibly useful, though.

Poe McKnoe's picture

You may want to do a quick study of Ohio State quarterbacks in big games under Jim Tressel.  Depending on what your definition of big game is, the results have not been pretty (unless you are Troy Smith against Michigan).

F O U R's picture

Or Pryor against Michigan (3-0) or Krenzel against Michigan (2-1) and in Bowl Games (2-0).  Troy also won at Texas and against ND in the Fiesta.

741's picture

Can I just say I love that pic of Keith Wells getting his proper swerve on.

Leanenaud's picture

Is that what swerve looks like?

nickma71's picture

I just watched about 4 minutes of that long snapper video. About as exciting as watching Steve Alford practice free throws.

Herbie should go because he has to try and overextend to cover up his bias. Lou Holtz just doesn't bother. Jim Nantz and those airheads on CBS don't care if the world knows they hate the Big 10 and especially Ohio State. Maybe he could just drop the whole objectivity and let it fly like they do. Or....

How many know Chris Fowler is a CU Buff fan? You would never know, because he is objective and his intrest does not come into play. Ever.

Tressel's offense lacks flavor. If you need Troy Smith level of play from your quarterback to be above mediocre, you have a problem with the system. Or line of scrimage. And I would never trade the Senator for Urb.

JakeBuckeye's picture

How many know Chris Fowler is a CU Buff fan? You would never know, because he is objective and his intrest does not come into play. Ever.

A) Fowler is not an analyst, so he usually does not give his take.

B) Its Colorado. They're not a topic of discussion much anymore.