Friday Skull Session

By poguemahone on September 17, 2010 at 6:00a

 Through two games, one of the best features of this Ohio State squad is its ability to hold on to the ball. The coaches made it a point of emphasis over the summer (likely still smarting from Purdue Harbor), and as Ken Gordon writes, it appears to be having an effect:

After a 36-24 win over the University of Miami last week, the Buckeyes lead the nation in turnover margin, at plus-3.5 per game. They have seven takeaways, which is impressive enough to tie for seventh nationally. But maybe more significant is they are one of just four teams (out of 120 in major-college football) to have played two games with no giveaways.

If the Buckeyes are going to get bit by the turnover bug at any point this season, you have to hope it'll be over the course of the next few weeks, with games against Ohio, Eastern Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois. These teams are wretched, and the only ones remaining on the schedule (excepting perhaps Minnesota, who is similarly awful) who Ohio State can afford to turn the ball over against. Everyone else - and I'm wary bordering on paranoid after the aforementioned Purdue game - will be able to make them pay for stupid mistakes. Best to get it out of their system now.

 It appears Michigan's basketball team has become a haven of sorts for the progeny of ex-NBA stars. Jordan Dumars (son of Joe), Tim Hardaway Jr., Glenn Robinson III, and Jon Horford (brother of Al and son of Tito) all will be suiting up someday soon for the Michigan Wolverines. I'm not sure if it's all coincidence or what, but Rivals has each of them ranked at three stars apiece. Funnily enough, Michigan did not land a kid who many would assume to be a shoo-in:

If recruiting the sons of NBA players is going to be coach John Beilein's unusual niche, then maybe the greatest irony is the lone legacy he tried to bring to Michigan but failed to land. That would be Glen Rice Jr., the son of the former Michigan star who now starts at guard for Georgia Tech.

Rice Sr., of course, won a national championship for Michigan a little under two weeks before I was born.

 There are three big Pac-10-Big 10 match-ups this weekend, and Adam Rittenberg and Pac-10 blogger Ted Miller go over each of them here. Ohio State should take care of Ohio rather easily, which leaves us to focus on and root for the rest of the Big Ten. Two of these games are litmus tests for some of the Big Ten's best. It's a given that USC will do mean things to Minnesota, but Iowa and Arizona should be excellent, and Wisconsin needs to play better than it did against San Jose State if it wants to impress against Arizona State. ASU is likely no better than mediocre, having housed not one, but two FCS squads as tune-ups for the trip to Madison. Whether we like to admit it or not, how the Big Ten fares in these three games will reflect on the strength of the conference, which in turn will reflect on the Buckeyes. The Pac-10 is probably down this year, and going 2-1 this weekend is a must.

 This is pretty cool, fluff piece or not: DeVier Posey will be squaring off against his brother Julian this Saturday in the 'Shoe. Big brother is a starting cornerback for the Bobcats and played in the 2008 game against the Buckeyes. And as anyone who has a brother knows, talking crap is inevitab

"It's going to be intense," DeVier Posey said. "It's probably going to be the most intense game I've ever played in just because I know the guy going across from me is going to be going 120 percent every play just because he doesn't want to get embarrassed."

When a reporter told him that his older brother was quoted as saying that DeVier should "bring his ‘A' game" and that he "was ugly," Posey — who leads OSU in receiving with eight catches, 146 yards and two touchdowns — shot back.

"Well, one, he knows I'm not ugly," Posey said. "And two, I'll bring my ‘A' game. He just needs to be sure he brings his ‘A' game. I'm not too worried about (Number) 9 this week, tell him that. He's the one who needs to bring his ‘A' game."

Ah yes, the old "ugly" jab. Timeless, no? If one of these guys holds down the other and farts on him in the middle of the 2nd quarter, brothers everywhere will raise a glass to cherished memories.

 Unsatisfied with Pryor's performance against Miami, the Buckeye staff is looking to give him some help in the coming weeks. They're not specific (are they ever?), but I'd expect a little more Stoneburner, encouraging fewer Grossman moments ("screw it, I'm going deep") and more passes to the backs, a la the Brandon Saine touchdown against Miami. I doubt the playbook will be emptied for the Poor Sisters of Mercy, but "padding completion percentage" would be a good way to get Pryor's confidence up for the Big Ten season. 


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blazers34's picture

Thats an interesting take.  Would turning the ball over against those teams be 'getting it out of their system', or a 'huge problem going forward'    I'd think it would be a huge problem unless it is just a fluke fumble here or there

poguemahone's picture

Obviously, it could be either. My personal thinking is that if turnovers become a problem against those teams, it'll be corrected and guys'll get coached up to the point where it isn't a problem against the meat of the Big Ten schedule. If it has to happen some time, I'd rather it happen against Eastern and Illinois rather than Wisconsin and Iowa.

Normal Buck's picture

"Rice Sr., of course, won a national championship for Michigan a little under two weeks before I was born. "

Thanks for starting my Friday off by making me feel old.  I was overseas in the military at that time. . .

buckeyedude's picture

That was my exact thought too, Normal. LOL.



Chris Lauderback's picture

Yeah, I was about 14 years old. I remember that team well. Definintely not a one man show. Beyond Rice, Rumeal Robinson was good and I thought Sean Higgins would have a much better NBA career than he did. I remember they also had that white 2-guard that seemingly never did anything offensively but took probably 3 charges a game. Screw them.  

iball's picture

I think Terry Mills went ahead of Rice in the draft? Anyway ,Terry Mills just completed his degree last year. The fab 5 weren't the only scUM team to get paid.

That was a good time for b10 bbal tho, I'll never forget the "Flyin Illini". Although, I hate them.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

Chris Lauderback's picture

Rice went 4th overall in the '89 draft. Robinson (10), Vaught (13) and Mills (16) went in '90 draft. Lou Henson definitely had some bomb squads at Illy. Kendall Gill was sick but Kenny Battle was probably my favorite to watch back then. Man, Nick Anderson could bomb threes too.

BucksfanXC's picture

That made me go "damn, he's young" and I'm not that much older.

They couldn't afford Rice, Jr.

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

German Buckeye's picture

TP needs all the help he can get.  I think our WR's had a hard time getting open against Miami.  He needs to find the 3rd checkdown quicker (and when he does, don't throw it at his feet or 4 feet over his head). 

Off topic - So is TP really 6'6?  I'm looking at a pic of him and Jake Stoneburner and 'Burner looks to be an inch or more taller - Jake is listed at 6'5....Also see a pic of him and Browing and they look exactly the same height - Browning is listed as 6'4....just sayin...not that it really matters, but I sort don't like the games teams play in listing incorrect personal stats.  If he's truly 6'4, great.  Still a big kid, just don't list him at 6'6 if he's not. 

iball's picture

Pic links?

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

dr green's picture

I think it depends on whether or not you measure from the top of the fade.

Chris Lauderback's picture

haha. excellent point, doc

RBuck's picture

I don't think TP throwing more short passes is meant to pad his stats. He actually needs improvement in that part of his game.

Long live the southend.

iball's picture

Sam great read.

1. TITO HORFORD??!! I thought my name was bad.

Hopefully we'll see Berry a little more in the upcoming weeks. I know Tress was sticking with his usual suspects with the Miami game only in week 2. I was glad to see his trust in Berry and Hall with KR's, great way to utilize that athleticism.

I hope Sweat is ok, but if Sabino picks up an extra snap or two I think the team will be better for it.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

BuckeyeSki's picture

Hall and Berry handling kick returns is great. Im actually excited about the kick returns for once. Berry is gonna break one real soon

Banned from BlackShoeDiaries since 2008. Crime: Slander/Defamation of Character Judgement: Guilty

BTwrestle04's picture

On a completely unrelated note.... Where are all these bandwagon Cincy fans now that their program is 1-2 soon to be 1-3? (They play Oklahoma next week). Funny how Cincitucky comes out of the woodwork when they have 2 good seasons in their program's history.

Chris Lauderback's picture

Yeah. I miss the Cincy trolls. Obviously, their "coming out of the woodwork" was the result of having absolutely no experience with knowing how to handle winning.

tomcollins's picture

I used to pull for Cincinnati when they were the little guy.  What a huge mistake.  I grew up in Cincinnati and Cincinnati fans were intolerable in basketball and I always cheered for Xavier in the cross-town shootout.  I should have known that if their football program got any level of success, the football fans would be just as obnoxious.  I'll root against them every week now.  To put it in perspective, I rooted for Michigan against Teblow a few years back, and couldn't have been happier when Florida wafflecrushed Cincy in the Sugar Bowl.  I hope the Big East collapses and the end up back in CUSA.  I love how their basketball team has turned completely irrelevant since they got rid of the drunk they had leading the program.

Very few things are worse than Cincinnati fans in sports.  They are the biggest bandwagon hoppers out there.  Bengals, Reds, Bearcats- doesn't matter.  They will latch onto whoever wins, forget who loses.  If all their teams suck, then time to jump on UK, Ohio State, or Notre Dame.  At least with Michigan, I can view them as an "equal" and give them some bit of respect even if I hate their guts.  Cincinnati gets none and I love them getting stomped every time.

btalbert25's picture

I've lived on the N.Ky side of the river from Cincinnati my whole life and I honestly think that this attitude comes from years of bad teams.  When I was a  kid and both the Reds and Bengals were pretty good, Cincinnati had great fans.  I'm not sure the Bengals and Reds fans ever went away in terms of no long following and loving their teams, but I think they quit paying to see such a garbage product.  I do wish Reds fans would come out more, but attendance usually doesn't rebound til the year after when Season Ticket sales go up.  Anyway, when the people of the city hand the owners of the teams brand new stadiums and get nothing in return, I understand the frustration.

I think that's why you see people latch on to teams when they are sucessful.  I know last year when UC was good, peopel who didn't give a damn about UC or college football for that matter all of the sudden were fans.  When they Cyclones, minor league hockey, were in the title game this summer, 14,000 people came out to see them win the Kelly Cup.  This town wants a winner and needs one for that matter.  I do, however feel that if the Reds and Bengals maintain success UC football will never be as popular as it was last year, whether they are good or not. 

tomcollins's picture

That's my point.  It's all bandwagon fans.  Cincinnati has had winners.  They were in the Super Bowl in 88 and Reds won the Series in 90.  Then within 5 years, no one cares about either team.  You can't contend every year.  Absolutely no loyalty.  Cincinnati fans are only visible when their teams can contend (or so they think).  I'm not talking about just going to the games.  And it's not about sucking.  Back in 88 when the Bengals went to the Super Bowl, there was Bengals stuff everywhere.  5 years later, it's nowhere to be found.  They get Carson Palmer, and all of a sudden, they come out of the woodwork like cockroaches.  They love to support winners, but drop off the bandwagon any time it turns bad.  You didn't see Ohio Stadium drop when we were 6-6 and missing a bowl game.


It doesn't come from bad teams, it comes from bad fans.  Cincinnati desperately wants to be something it will never be - relevant.

btalbert25's picture

The Bengals fans came back when the team went 7-9, I hardly think that is jumping on when the team is good.  They had 13 years of teams that were routinely the worst in the league or at least bottom 5.   The Reds won a world series in 5 years later they were in the playoffs again and no one came out, why? The strike in 94.  Add to it the team has had all of 3 winning seasons in 15 years and that's what kind of reaction you get.  What city doesn't react that way to years of suckage?  Detroit doesn't fill up the stadium anymore for their games.  Pittsburgh has given up on the Pirates and did so long ago. 

People have always loved the Bengals and Reds, but too many years of saying "Next year is our year" has lead to this.  Again, I just don't know what city has had teams that for the better part of 15 years have been pretty bad, that actually continue to support the teams with the passion and love of when they are competing. 

Right now Buckeye tickets are virtually impossible to get other than through ebay stub hub etc.  However, if next year marked the first in a 5 year stretch of losing seasons, I'd venture to say it would be very easy to find tickets and you wouldn't see as many people selling and wearing jerseys.  Look how quick Michigan has forsaken their team?  Remember all the scarlet in the Big House last year.

tomcollins's picture

Michigan fans have forsaken their team?  Not the ones I know.  They still watch every game and wear maize blue.

Good fans don't abandon the team when they are down.  That may be an excuse for the fairweathered types, but not for any real fan.  But it was great for me growing up, I got to see TONS of Browns games on TV when the Bungles got blacked out.  Your excuse is fine for the late 90s, but in the 80s, the Bengals were decent.  Still, one down year and they drop like flies.  Yet the Browns, who have been pretty awful all but 1 year since 1999, still continue to sell out most games.  Half the season already sold out in a year where the Browns are 300-1 dogs to win the Super Bowl.  The only time that happens to the Bengals is if the visiting team buys all the tickets or there's a free Jimmy Buffet show afterward.  Take a look if Lambeau Field ever is empty when the Packers are down.  It just doesn't happen when you have true fans.

Baseball is a tough sport due to the way it's structure, it's nearly impossible for some teams to EVER make a team that can compete.  I view the empty stadiums for baseball more a statement about the downfall of the game itself.  Unless you are a Red Sox or Yankees fan, what's the point?  All you can do is try to get a good farm squad, hope they develop in 5 years before they all flee for more money in the big markets.  

btalbert25's picture

I guess I just dont' remember it being one bad year for the Bengals and then no one cared anymore.  If selling out the stadium isn't the only guage for fandom, I would say then that the city never abandoned either team. I know when games were blacked out friend's parents, uncles, and my grandpa always had it on the radio at the house.   I don't think people ever stopped loving the Bengals, they just quit wanting to line Brown's pockets while he constantly refused to put a worthy product on the field.  Again, I just don't remember it being one bad year then no one shows up. 

Until the economic down turn the Bengals seemed to sell out quite a bit the 7 or 8 years and that was on the heels of 7-9 and 8-8 seasons.  Don't get me wrong, I've have often criticized the fairweather fans around here, but I don't think it's accurate to say they don't care about their teams. 

btalbert25's picture

I also don't disagree about the Browns and or Packers fans, but those are 2 of the exceptions more so than the rule.  Especially since the economy has taken a hit.  I mean you can't hardly get an NFL ticket for under 50 bucks, then beers get closer to 10 bucks a pop each year.  If you are going to drop 3 or 400 bucks to go to see your team play you should expect to get some quality.  Especially for the perceived even playing field the NFL has.    Honestly, that rabid fandom, in my opinion can keep the Browns content with being bad.  Who is holding them accountable for terrible years?  I don't think people voicing displeasure with their team's situation= bad fans who only love their teams when they win.

tomcollins's picture

I was mostly shocked with coming back to Cincinnati for the first time in 5 years and seeing Bengals stuff EVERYWHERE.  News coverage was all about the Bengals when it was barely a footnote before that.  Ochocinco has his own cereal now.  It was like an entirely different world.  This never existed for 15 years prior to that.   They do care about their teams (as long as they are good).  If they aren't any good, then it's time to latch onto NASCAR or UK basketball.

M Man's picture

The 11W crowd might be interested to know why and how there came to be so much scarlet in Michigan Stadium for the 2009 OSU game.  I can explain.  I'll try to keep it short, but it is a bit complicated.

As part of the Michigan Stadium renovation, which is technically still underway, the Michigan Athletic Department has been "banking" all season tickets that were not renewed.  The reason for that, is that along with the construction of the two gigantic flanking structures (the new East and West Concourses), the Athletic Department was undertaking a project of widening aisles, creating aisleway handrails, and widening the seat-spacing in the main bowl.  On one side of the stadium (the east side), that work has been completed.  That is where I sit, and it is great.  Much more comfortable than before.  The west side of the stadium will be completed for 2011.

The Michigan Athletic Department "banked" that large number of what used to be season ticket seats, because there would be a net loss of seats for the aisleway and seat-widening work.  Knowing that those seats would not exist after 2010-11, those seats were parceled out in three-game packages, for public sale.  Annual, one-time sales, not season tickets.  It's been going on for about four years.  I presume that ticket brokers and clever/dedicated fans snatched them up, for resale.  Large numbers of scarlet-clad Buckeye fans bought them for the 2009.  (Where would you sell them, if you were the broker?)  It was indeed an impressive showing of fan support for a road game.  Unprecedented, and probably never to be repeated.

Those seats will no longer exist for 2011.

Even a lot of Michigan fans never understood this story, and the less-fortunate fanatics who didn't possess season tickets were accusing the regular Big House season ticket holders of lacking the True Faith.  (They thought everybody sold out en masse, to the Buckeyes.)  A lot of intramural allegations got tossed around.  But it never had anything to do with faithless Wolverines.  It was all about the business of ticket brokering under some unusual and temporary circumstances.

By the way, the attendance records that Michigan sets this year will not be broken for a long time, not even by Michigan, since the completion of the west-side main bowl work will again reduce our capacity back to near-2009 levels.  I expect that the U-M v. MSU game on Oct. 9 will be the largest crowd in the history of college football, and that it will be a record that stands for some years.  Too bad you boys aren't coming north again this year.  I'd sort of like your name to be part of that record, rather than Little Brother.

J.Mo's picture

No faithless Wolverines? I bought my two tickets at face value from a season ticket holding Michigan fan. They're weren't family or friends. Just a co-worker of my sister (who is just an acquaintance of my sister, not her friend).

M Man's picture

In that case, would you please supply us with their name(s), social security numbers and home addresses.

btalbert25's picture

They are back to cheering for Notre Dame and Ohio State. Don't insult my great state by calling it Cincitucky please.

741's picture

"Best team in Ohio" my ass.

Buckeye Ben in Tampa's picture

speaking of Pryor checking down to the backs, what happened to all these passes to Boren I was hoping to see? Out of the FB position, Homan has 1 catch for 7 yards. I was pretty excited about getting Boren involved in the offense a little. Did something happen that I don't know about? Or is it play calling/not getting open?

tomcollins's picture

Boren dropped one last week, right?   I was a few beers in by that point, so my memory is not super clear on that.

tomcollins's picture

Fumbles are a lot more random than most people give credit for them.  There are a few cases where fumbles are caused by poor technique, but very few people at the DI level have those problems for long (and if they do, they stay off the field).  Smaller teams will be more likely to cough it up against bigger teams due to harder hits, but "not fumbling" is one of the most overrated skills in football.

Buckeye Ben in Tampa's picture

I am still pulling for an Iowa win, but I am trying to make myself into a minor Arizona fan this year. I will be out that way for a few months for some arrrrrrrrrrrmy training and went ahead and got some tickets to the Arizona vs. USC game on Nov 13th. I would LOVE to go and see the Wildcats kick Lane Kiffins ass.

And, not knowing who would be in this class with me and assuming there would be a few football fans, I went ahead and got 4 tickets. So if anyone lives out that way and wants to go to that game, let me know.

SouthBayBuckeye's picture

you know who else is a Zona fan? THE HOFF!!!



Banned from ATO since June 3rd 2PMish PST

SouthBayBuckeye's picture

Banned from ATO since June 3rd 2PMish PST

SouthBayBuckeye's picture


Banned from ATO since June 3rd 2PMish PST

Jason Priestas's picture

Fixed. For embeds, you have to click the "Source" button on the top left and paste it in that way.

Also, +1 for proper use of FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU.

SouthBayBuckeye's picture

ahhh thanks


and thanks.

Banned from ATO since June 3rd 2PMish PST

ColonelCS's picture

You guys gonna admit you spend everyday on /sp/ now? or pretend not too, haha

Jason Priestas's picture

Not following?

Luke's picture

Jason's a secret b-tard.

Jason Priestas's picture

Oh, that.  Yeah, I never venture outside of /b/.

ColonelCS's picture

/sp/ is uhhh, better. you should venture over there