Jon Waters Unleashes Vulgarity-Laced Tirade on Drum Major

By DJ Byrnes on July 25, 2014 at 3:09p
175 Comments

On the heels of band director Jonathan Waters firing from Ohio State, The Columbus Dispatch obtained audio of Waters cursing at a drum major.

The audio, recorded without Waters' knowledge, was handed over to Ohio State on July 9th, more than a month after Ohio State had initiated its investigation into the culture of the band.

From The Dispatch:

Context behind the recording is limited, but the 23-page investigation report says the student was called into Waters’ office along with Christopher Hoch, the associate director of the band, during the week of Sept. 23, 2013. Investigators wrote that there had been a disagreement during practice. 

In the recording, Waters does not sound too pleased. After what sounds like a door slamming, Waters gets down to business.


Waters: Alright, Kyle, who is he? What is his position here?

Student: Associate director.

Waters: And what am I?

Student: Head director.

Waters: And you fucking better realize who you’re dealing with. We told you to do something on the field and you outright disrespected him and me. Now, this will not stand. We tell you to stand on your head, and as drum major, you’ll stand on your goddamn head if you want to be drum major. Do you understand?

Student: Yes I do.

Waters: Are we completely clear?

Student: Yes we are.

Waters: Again? Done. On the spot. Done. Do you understand?

Student: Yes, I do.

Waters: You gotta know, when I walked over there... we, we know you gotta practice the ramp. And that's why we did it a second fucking time.

Hoch: Which we didn't have time to do. But we did that for you, alright?

Waters: We as a staff selected David to do the interview because you had a problem with the goddamn media. And that's why we chose him to do it. We understand you're coming down the ramp this weekend. 

You ever do that again after we've given you a direct goddamn order and you're done. Do you understand?

Student: Yes, I do.

Waters: That's it. Goodbye.


Underhanded tactics to record somebody without their knowledge, and you can almost feel Kyle's hidden smirk as the tape rolls. It wouldn't have been enough to oust Waters on its own — after all, who hasn't been dressed down by superiors? — but it doesn't make Waters look any better in the wake of Ohio State's 23-page report.

175 Comments

Comments

buckIalum's picture

HE SWORE!! OUTRAGE!!! OUUUUTTTTTRRRRAAAAAGGGGGEEEEE!!!!

+35 HS
whiskeyjuice's picture

"Championships are not won on Saturdays in November. Championships are won on Tuesdays in August." -- Kerry Combs

+4 HS
Buckeye Knight's picture

The band don't F around

+31 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

Nothing to see here.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+12 HS
InTressITrust's picture

What is the problem here exactly?  If you violate a superior's order you deserve to be chewed out.  Some people user vulgar language some people do not.   

"I'm not going to lie. We're anxious to be a part of a matchup like that. It's two states that love the game of football." -Jim Tressel

+18 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture
It's ok because it's a cat.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+45 HS
mmounts's picture

Not a fan of cats, but my favorite GIF

+2 HS
CGroverL's picture

Not a fan of cats myself either...But since I am a fan of sex and my wife loves cats (we have 5 cats, 12 kittens and we are currently fostering 2 mother cats with a total of 13 kittens between them as well through the Volusia County SPCA and we also give $25 monthly to their national chapter, the NSPCA), I put up with cats and do their morning feedings and my wife does everything else. Then again, I should probably be asking myself if sex is worth the 32 cats we now have (not counting the 5 outside cats that eat here but don't live here). If you got a peek at my wife, you'd guess that the sex was worth it, but I won't go any farther on that issue. My jealous ass wife goes through everything I write on this computer so I'll be chewed out about this soon enough. Maybe she'll cut me some slack about me hinting about how hot she is and there will be no actual chewing to it. Did I just say that out loud? I know....I'm a male chauvinist pig, but in the end, I was just trying to be serious and funny at the same time....so everyone out there, please try and cut Grover some slack for this comment. Thanks. Go Buckeyes!!!

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

awarren84's picture

Weird

"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"

+1 HS
buckz4evr's picture

  I don't normally like to swear but that's some funny shit

Abe Froman's picture

Thanks for making me spit my coffee all over myself.  Great start to the day!

Basking in the wake of mediocrity.....

cbusbuckeye's picture

I might be in the minority but I see no problem with this conversation...TBDBITL is big time, a lot is expected. Waters is essentially the coach of the band and coaches talk to players this way all the time, it's called tough love. 

+19 HS
mh277907's picture

Hopefully you aren't in the minority. The best coaches I have ever had have had similar conversations with me. I don't condone the culture that was created (not necessarily because I think that it adversely affected kids' lives, though it seems they pushed the envelope at times, but because in today's day and age, the leaders of the band simply should have known better that this stuff would not fly), but I have no problem with what was said. You aren't going to be coddled if you want to be part of something as great as the OSU marching band. You should know that and accept that going into it. 

buckeyebobcat

+3 HS
CGroverL's picture

In high school, we had a very good baseball team with a coach that had a way of coaching that he truly believed in. We started every practice with a five mile run and ended each practice with a 5 mile run while our strength and endurance coach ran with us like a drill instructor as he constantly called us names, called our mothers names and generally treated us like total shit. When we lost a home game, our coach immediately looked at his watch, as 30 minutes later, we owed him another 5 mile run with our strength and endurance coach....when we lost an away game, we would have to drive back to our home field to run our lovely run while being screamed at by our strength and endurance coach. We ran 10 miles on every day that had no game and 5 miles on game days when we lost...and we were always chastised during our runs, especially when we lost to Orlando Boone, Orlando Apopka, and Orlando Dr. Phillips who had Johnny Damon at that time (and that kid was awesome then...he and future pro Brian Barber ate us up).

During my 3 years, we lost a total of 10 games. Our coach's look at baseball was "Get in shape and everything else comes easy". Now, I'm not saying that what happened on my high school baseball team excuses what is going on with TBDBITL...but they may just be TBDBITL for a reason close to my coach's outlook on baseball. I can tell you this for sure though: I ran back to back times of 4.38 and 4.44 in the 40 yard dash as a junior and I was 2nd on the team (I broke my wrist severely and had my baseball and football careers taken away because of a broken wrist playing against Warren Sapp in my senior year of high school football because my wrist was in a cast for 18 months) with those times. That team had 4 players play at major baseball schools with the best and fastest player playing for both the Miami Hurricanes and the L.A. Dodgers. We are all old now as we played during Sapp's high school years and his old, janky ass just went into the Hall of Fame. Trust me...there is no one out there that hates Warren Sapp more than me. During our football game, I got into at least 10 fights with him and broke my wrist while trying to punch inside his helmet but hitting his helmet instead. Just a note: If you are going to get into a fight with someone wearing full football gear, grab his facemask and push up while trying to hit him in the chin.....or you can always hit him in the throat like Woody did against Charlie Bauman. Regardless...try to get his helmet off first, especially if he has kicked your ass the whole game and is on his way to the Hall of Fame.

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

+2 HS
Codeezy's picture

You must have been a running back?

CGroverL's picture

I played CB and WR....but I played on a team that went (0-10) and I really played only CB but ended up against Sapp the entire game as we played a 4 WR set which meant that myself, like Warren Sapp almost never got a play off as he played on both sides against us....we were chumps and Sapp played many positions against us. I think Sapp playing LB was just their coach's way of taking it easy on us. With Sapp though (Sapp and myself) we fought early and he ran at me to fight after EVERY play. Sapp got 2 penalties for hitting me late that I turned into offsetting dead ball fouls because I couldn't control my temper. Hey though...I finished the game and two practices the next week before going to the doctor and finding out that I would never play sports again.  My scars on my wrists finally healed when I was 37...I'm 41 now. Sapp's Apopka team beat our squad 49-0 and they were the 3rd best team in our "Metro" conference. We play very good football here in central Florida. Even my (0-10) 1991 team had a player go to Florida State (OL) and started a few games for them and our QB that started as a freshman, ended up as the starter at NC State for a couple of seasons.

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

Codeezy's picture

That's sweet man! Love hearing those stories. 

Stinson's picture

I don't understand what the problem is with this...?

"The height of human desire is what wins, whether it's on Normandy Beach or in Ohio Stadium." -Wayne Woodrow Hayes

+12 HS
CGroverL's picture

I don't either and my wife would like to say that she agrees with you, too. The way my wife and I see it, you have to be ultra super tough if you want to have the best damn band in the land...and we Buckeye fans want the best damn band in the land each and every year and there is no excuse for NOT having the best band year in and year out. If you are going to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs, a sousaphone or two and possibly a drum major's feelings, right? The end justifies the means sometimes...hell, TSUN covered up a rape of sorts, Texas A&M covered up Manziel's wrongdoings, and whatever really happened with Miami giving recruits prostitutes (and our beloved school did wrongly by putting Andy Katzenmoyer in Sex Ed. classes? I'm sure that he learned to not use prostitutes and to wear condoms in that class)?

It just seems like the world truly does hate Ohio State. They can't stand it that a school has honor and tradition so much that they try as hard as they can to tear it down. Buckeye students are adults and have heard the "F-word" before, ya know? See, now they (the NCAA and ESPN) think they can tear the school down because the band director demands excellence and may have an anger management issue. Maybe we can get Mike Vrabel back to coach the band...the next thing ya know, players will be taping practice sessions to try to get their coaches put down. This is all ridiculous.

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

Buckeye419er's picture

Join the military and get back to me. 

+14 HS
jpbuckeye's picture

Exact;y; been there heard that. It is business not personal. Deal with it.

+2 HS
ibuck's picture

Despite the uniforms, this isn't the military, where a screw up or loose lips can cost lives. It's entertainment. 

Military behavior is generally not acceptable in civil society. My dad was a military lifer, buried now in Arlington. On multiple occasions, I've seen guys fresh out of the service being corrected for their behavior—by former military people.

Our honor defend, we will fight to the end !

If you can't win your conference, just quietly accept your non-playoff bowl game.

+1 HS
CGroverL's picture

I do agree. But do you think TBDBITL would be what they are without someone there to kick them in the butt when needed? They are close to perfect and there is something beyond mere coordination that makes all of that happen, don't you think? I do. And that little extra something may just be an ass chewing or something of that effect.

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

TBDBITL0509's picture

Pretty much. The band is deeply rooted in ROTC beginnings, but it's not the actual military. Still, the regimented, highly intricate and precise routines of this band that make it TBDBITL are only achieved through amazing discipline. This type of leadership (and tongue lashing) is required to get shit done. 

+6 HS
osu78's picture

I disagree. One of the best CO's I had never raised his voice, never swore and yet our boat was a top performer. We simply never wanted to let him down and didn't; he was one of those rear inspirational leaders.. While I am not saying swearing and yelling can't accomplish the same thing it is not the only, nor sometimes the best, way to lead; and too often people in power confuse leadership and swearing like a sailor.

+1 HS
DaveStephens's picture

Most leaders, especially the good ones, in the Marine Corps, don't need to swear, especially in anger or in a display that they've lost control. That's for rookies. 

The Dude abides.

+1 HS
Young_Turk's picture

Whatever.  Nothing to see or hear with this.  If I'm the next Director, first thing I do is kick this dude off the band.  Next man up!

+5 HS
jeremytwoface's picture

Pretty sure he's already done... with being the drum major anyway. I think there's a limit of 2 years and he's already done 2.

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+2 HS
Crumb's picture

Cursing got him fired? Seriously? They're called TBDBITL for goodness sake!

"The only good thing about it is winning the d*** thing" - Urban Meyer on The Game The War

+6 HS
DJ Byrnes's picture

cursing did not get him fired.

Californian by birth, Marionaire by the Grace of President Warren G. Harding.

Crumb's picture

It took me a while to read that report. They have to change this and someone had to get in trouble for it.

"The only good thing about it is winning the d*** thing" - Urban Meyer on The Game The War

Urban Nation Army's picture

I highly doubt it's what got him fired. If so the most of the coaching staff for almost all sports would be canned.

Bet you can't say "Bert Bielma is a bumbling buffoon" five times fast.

+2 HS
buckeye_chick's picture

Aren't there laws about recording someone without telling them?

+7 HS
InTressITrust's picture

"I'm not going to lie. We're anxious to be a part of a matchup like that. It's two states that love the game of football." -Jim Tressel

+3 HS
Osurrt's picture

Usually the one doing the secret taping------lol.

+1 HS
vidstudent's picture

Usually, yes.  It means that you cannot tape secretly as a third party (wiretap) without consent of one of the parties, however.

Nicholas Eckert

vidstudent

+1 HS
BierStube's picture

Seems a little dramatic ... reminds me of this ..

"No matter where you go, there you are." B. Banzai

+15 HS
Maestro's picture

That's all I could think about as well.  

vacuuming sucks

+4 HS
Baroclinicity's picture

This thread should be re-titled "Maestro has made an appearance!"

When you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

+3 HS
chitown buckeye's picture

Small potatoes in my opinion. These conversations happen all the time. This should have nothing to do with the firing or the 23 page report.

"I'm having a heart attack!"

+3 HS
unknownmusketeer's picture

If you read the report, he wasn't fired for yelling or cursing. Waters claimed during the investigation that he had never yelled at or used profane language when addressing a student. This tape recording proves that he lied during the investigation.

+13 HS
chitown buckeye's picture

Thanks on the clarification. I certainly realized he wasn't fired for cursing or yelling but didn't look close enough at the report to realize he had made that statement. This is damning evidence to his credibility during the investigation for sure and certainly didn't help his cause. I was taking the conversation as face value and these types of conversations go on quite a bit in the world.

"I'm having a heart attack!"

+3 HS
cronimi's picture

While the cover-up is often (always?) worse than the crime, I would be extremely disappointed with University management if this tape, or Waters' lie about yelling/cursing at band members, had more than a negligible factor in their decision to terminate him. Sure, he should have said, "yes, it is possible that I have yelled and/or cursed, though I cannot recall any particular instance" rather than make a blanket denial, but the accurate (though inappropriate) follow-up form him should have been, "and who gives a shit if I did?" We have hours upon hours of video/audio of coaches of nearly every sport yelling at their Buckeye players, some with expletives bleeped out, and none of them have been fired, and probably haven't even been reprimanded. Some of the findings in the report are bad -- the one about him yelling/cursing simply is not. And if any band member couldn't handle loud/bad words, it's he/she who should be gone.

+1 HS
unknownmusketeer's picture

All that I keep thinking is that I grew up in a very different way than most people who condone yelling and cursing at kids (defined as anyone 10 years younger than you). I understand that some people think that this is the only way to instill discipline, but I know that it is not.

+4 HS
Young_Turk's picture

Best coach I ever had was a multidimensional leader.  He knew when to yell, he know when to have fun, he knew when to challenge a kid and when to boost him up.  Sounds to me like Waters and the Assistant Director were giving a kid a clear warning not to challenge them, and also it sounds to me like they were giving him a 2nd chance.  

From the report, it sounds like Waters allowed and encouraged fun, and from the audio tape sounds like he could enforce discipline as well.  

I know next to nothing about the circumstances, but if the kid had a beef, that meeting was the time to raise his concerns.  Gripes go up the chain of command, not across. 

+6 HS
THEOSUfan's picture

Actually, in the military gripes from the bottom don't go anywhere.  The chain of command is a one way street.  Things go down and rarely go up.  It is a CYA system.  The correct understanding can be summed up by: "Shit runs downhill."

+3 HS
741's picture

So if you are a 41 year old manager, and you raise your voice and use the "F-word" while having a sit down with a 30 year old employee (with the assistant manager in the room with you) is it child abuse in your world?

+1 HS
Go1Bucks's picture

But he dressed him down in a closed room, with an ADULT, not a child and not on the field in front of everyone.

This was a disrespectful drum major who was unhappy and decided to try and fuck with Waters.

Go Bucks!

+11 HS
Mizzillion's picture

This doesn't bother me at all.  This is just a leader instilling some discipline.  

The stuff that got him fired is a different story.  But this? Nothing to see here.

+7 HS
German Buckeye's picture

Supervising sucks.  That is all.

+10 HS
Fatpants's picture

Seriously. Punks walk around with recording devices to rat their boss out to the paper.

+4 HS
Fugelere's picture

As far as ass chewings are concerned, that wasn't even that bad.

+9 HS
741's picture

Three band nerds in a closed door meeting. Riveting stuff.

Amalgamate's picture

So basically the student likely screwed up on purpose, knew he was going to get chewed out and then recorded it? He then turned it into the media? What a weasel. 

+14 HS
jeremytwoface's picture

I know him... It wouldn't surprise me at all.

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+7 HS
741's picture

This is the kind of kid you would not want to hire.

BUCKfutter's picture

try recording a discussion like this in any competitive sport then setting foot in another locker room as long as you live. absolutely cowardly on the kid's part.

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

+10 HS
jeremytwoface's picture

He's burning his bridges, that's for sure.

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+6 HS
BUCKfutter's picture

yes, bridges over troubled waters

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

3GB's picture

Somewhere in Texas, Mike Vrabel chuckles...

+16 HS
sharks's picture

I have a problem with midnight underwear practice, but not this.

The postgame show is brought to you by... Christ, I can't find it. The hell with it...

-1 HS
Max's picture

Yeah, if you're in your skivvies, it should be at the beach when the sun is out.

+2 HS
simpson203's picture

I keep hearing people taking issue with midnight ramp and I think this tradition needs to be understood in context.  The point of this is to be prepared to perform in front of a crowded stadium, for which there is no dress rehearsal.  It's not like the band can sub mid show for a member who wilts in this situation (unlike the football team).  If you can do it in your underwear, you can handle the crowded stadium.  This isn't to say that the tradition hasn't morphed into something else over the years; just referring to it's original purpose.  And to be clear, I was not in the band, but have heard of this tradition and it's origins from actual band members, so any TBDBITL members feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

+8 HS
Chip's picture

The purpose of the tradition doesn't really matter.  It's obviously inappropriate.

-4 HS
TBDBITL0509's picture

You are correct. It's also a celebration. 

FitzBuck's picture

Fitzbuck | Toledo - Ohio's right armpit | "A troll by any other name is still a troll".

+10 HS
BTBuckeye's picture

What exactly is the problem with this? The "F BOMB" who gives a....Hoot?

+4 HS
AkronBuckeye13's picture

This would sound like a pretty friendly conversation when compared to some of the stuff that Urban probably says during practice.

+3 HS
OSUbonobo23's picture

Why is Elevenwarriors reporting this? I've been yelled at before by my boss, took it, and moved on. Seems like they are just adding fuel to the fire and doing their best ESPN impersonation. Don't become ESPN Elevenwarriors.

I put the The, in The Ohio State Univeristy.

+10 HS
DaytonBuck1980's picture

Good god! I almost said the same thing but was afraid I'd get castrated for comparing us to ESPN. Kudos to u bonobo. This is some skip bayless type shit. 

Still not giving a damn for the whole state of Michigan. 

+1 HS
OSUbonobo23's picture

Haha thanks. I don't mind if I get yelled at for comparing them to ESPN (will Waters yell at me?) only because this is a rare case where they slipped. 99% of the time this site stays on topic with great articles and postings. 

The thing to pay attention to is what he did regarding the sexual harassment issues. You can't analyze every outburst or "infraction" that's unrelated to a firing or a crime or some other unfortunate event and somehow lump them all in as evidence. If this sexual harassment stuff had never occurred and he was never dismissed, this yelling at the drum major would have never made the light of day.

I put the The, in The Ohio State Univeristy.

+1 HS
D. Anthony's picture

Urban better start saying "he's a grown-butt man". 

D. Anthony

+1 HS
Michael Citro's picture

Not sure what the Dispatch gains by releasing this other than making Waters look bad. Although nothing he said in this particular tirade was necessarily terrible. 

He said bad words. He did not call the kid bad words though. Pretty important distinction. 

Buckeye in Illini country's picture

He said bad words. He did not call the kid bad words though. Pretty important distinction. 

I wish I could upvote you Michael.  My mom and uncle were coaches for various sports mainly for my sister (soccer, volleyball, softball).  They always made the distinction that they were not yelling "at" the player but yelling "to" the player, if that makes any sense.  Giving them constructive criticism and instruction to improve, not berating them (though they never cussed since they coached high school and younger, and in view of the "public" and their younger son/ nephew - me - on the sideline).

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+4 HS
jeremytwoface's picture

My 8th grade basketball coach cussed all the time.... And I was in the 8th grade.

These people are adults. This is not a big deal at all.

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+3 HS
40 Degrees North's picture

After reading this transcript, I thought back to all the adults in my life as a youth who used much more graphic language than Jon Waters did. 

+1 HS
Young_Turk's picture

The audio gave me insight into how hard his job must have been.  Imagine trying to correograph in minute detail the innovative formations and maneuvers.  Now imaging trying to coach hormonal-addled teens and twenty-something year getting their first taste of freedom and the right to challenge discipline.  Jon was underpaid.

So, it actually increased my sympathy for him.

+6 HS
TBDBITL0509's picture

Band member support is overwhelmingly positive for Waters right now. Local news seems to be scrambling for more info and commentary from band members who have something a little more rational (or negative) to say. I was contacted by a few media members last night because of some private Facebook activity on friends' pages. I think they'll publish anything right now. 

+3 HS
741's picture

I find it more offensive that the Dispatch deems it necessary to redact the word "damn" (which I think Waters used twice). Also, I probably drop more f-bombs before finishing my morning cup of coffee at the office than Waters used in this entire so called "tirade".

jedkat's picture

Good thing the coaching staff doesn't cur.../so much for that argument

"I was tired of trying to work my way around the back, so I just ran him over"

~ Joey Bosa

+2 HS
Jbuckham94's picture

At first I had the same thought as most of you guys, "why does it matter if he cussed him out?" But if the reason he was ousted was lying during the investigation and he said he never swords at the students, this is kinda a big deal.

Also, do you guys think this tirade was actually caused by the drum major's refusal to stand on his head, or do you guys think that was hypothetical? If that was the real issue, it seems pretty juvenile to force students to do that and then get so angry over it.

Class of 2016. Go Bucks!

+1 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

I'd assume hypothetical, but it could also be referring to the "touching of his plume" to the ground.  Who knows.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+1 HS
Mercurius's picture

From Reddit user mermur, not me:

OSU marching band female alum here. I was a member from 2003-2007 while Jon Waters was the assistant director. I never had an offensive/sexual rookie name or trick, nor was I ever sexually harassed. I can address every claim made in the dispatch article and most of the official 23 page report if anyone wants, but instead I'll say OSU band was one of the best experiences of my life. I came from a very sheltered upbringing and was definitely surprised by some of the traditions, but never felt threatened or uncomfortable. I was immediately told by the older male members that I didn't have to participate in anything I felt offended by or uncomfortable with. I chose to participate in midnight ramp (marching in my underwear), but I was never forced to drink or perform sexually explicit acts. I always felt like my best interest was kept in mind, protected by the older members, and met a lot of great people and lifelong friends. Jon Waters was always the toughest of all the directors about inappropriate nicknames, tricks, and questionable traditions. In fact he was often criticized by members as being lame and form wanting to change our long standing but offensive traditions.

One whiney ass family is happy with his sacking, but I guarantee the band will suffer without his leadership. He's simply the scapegoat for these accusations, just being the director at the wrong time. I stand behind him 100% and hope to see the university president make more terrible decisions so HIS ass will eventually be canned.

+23 HS
Tater_Schroeder's picture

Thank you for posting. Glad to read stuff like this.

How Firm Thy Friendship

+4 HS
Jeeves's picture

Thank you for sharing this I have seen similar sentiment all over the interwebs today from former female band members. This is starting to make Ohio State "leadership" look really bad. Shocking I know.

+4 HS
Chip's picture

It's nice that this girl didn't feel offended or uncomfortable, but it's also completely irrelevant.  Her entire argument is "I wasn't bothered, therefore he shouldn't have been fired."  That's not quite how it works.

-2 HS
Jeeves's picture

Young woman is more appropriate than 'girl' when referring to an alumna, (lest someone accuse you of being politically incorrect.).

I disagree, her experience as a young woman in the band is a perspective that needs to be heard.

+2 HS
Chip's picture

It really isn't.  It's already obvious that not every single band member was not offended by these traditions.  Her "perspective" adds nothing.

-6 HS
irishfury's picture

I'm want to post the link for this hope you don't mind.  It was a good read and a lot of active band members posting.

http://www.reddit.com/r/OSU/comments/2bm195/ohio_state_fires_band_director_jonathan_waters/

jeremytwoface's picture

I see more of a problem with Kyle secretly taping their conversation and releasing it.

I know Kyle personally and, although it's very disappointing that he would do something like this, it doesn't surprise me. And I'm sure he deserved this lecture.

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+8 HS
DefendYoungstown's picture

I'm pretty sure conversation of this nature take place on the athletic field all the time, not sure what the big deal it.  Life and the real world is not always a box of chocolates, this is preparing this young person for reality someday.

What we can't do in the air we'll do on the ground.

+2 HS
ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

I'm not sure what the "interview" and problem with the "goddamn media" was all about but outside of that, sounds like Waters was just being a tough disciplinarian.  To truly be THE BEST DAMN BAND IN THE LAND, you need that kind of discipline.  I don't know what the point of releasing this audio was outside of Waters potentially lying (or potentially just not remembering) that he yelled/cussed at a student.

Class of 2010.

+1 HS
TheBigCat's picture

A very unfortunate by-product of smart phone technology, the ability to record video and audio at any given time, and often discreetly without the knowledge of the subjected party.

If this trend continues, everyone will have to pull a Jeter, and ask folks to leave their electronics at the door.

Hopefully at some point in the near future, society will refrain from listening or watching these unethical recordings, regardless of how juicy the content may be.  And then suddenly, media outlets will no longer be willing to pay 6 figures for them.

The only backlash from this story should be directed at the cowardly douche who recorded it, and the paper who was willing to publish it.

Ohioste's picture

I haven't listened to the audio yet but feel bad for the students future. His name has obviously been leaked somehow, which it should be. Take responsibility for your actions and live with your consequences. As a person who hires people, I google everyone before I interview. This comes up and he doesn't get an interview from me. Simple as that. 

+5 HS
741's picture

This. Except I don't feel bad for the student. Reap what you sow.

Prickly_Pete's picture

From that recording, it sounds like Waters did not put up with a lack of discipline, which makes it seem a bit odd that he was fired for NOT disciplining enough.  While the recording does not put Waters in the best light, it shows that he did discipline the band members somewhat.

+4 HS
Unky Buck's picture

I guess we're not allowed to say goddamn no more.

...

Squirrel Master's picture

well, gosh darn it!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

+1 HS
andretolstoy's picture

Why this piece?

OH yeah. The guy is getting ready to fight back so a nice little hit piece to further smear his name that runs on Facebook, Twitter... etc

+2 HS
Squirrel Master's picture

yeah Title IX violations I can see being an issue, especially with the US dept of Ed investigating everyone,

but this is weak sauce my friends. I talk worst than that to my lawnmower, it never listens to me on the ramp in my back yard. never!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

+1 HS
M Man's picture

"We're stretching... And you're a drum major!"

+22 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+3 HS
ExpressiveBuckeye's picture

Band geeks don't curse, but the Count does...

http://youtu.be/B-Wd-Q3F8KM

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

+1 HS
Bucksfan70's picture

lol that was hilarious!

“Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can accomplish what others can't.” - Jerry Rice

+1 HS
FitzBuck's picture

So great,  I'm sharing that one.

Fitzbuck | Toledo - Ohio's right armpit | "A troll by any other name is still a troll".

Poison nuts's picture

Yep, agreed with all. I've been spoken to like this by authority before - but maybe 100x worse. If anything, this will in many ways help his cause. I imagine people will say "well if that's all the video/audio dirt they could find, that's nothing at all." I understand this has nothing at all to do with the firing & all, but I don't even see the point of putting it out there regardless.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+1 HS
AndyVance's picture

See, when things like this get leaked, and then you hear from a number of band members and alumni that this report has made the proverbial mountain out of a molehill (I'm not saying it did or didn't but saying that members and alumni have expressed that sentiment to me), one can't help but think that someone or someones had it in for Waters.

As I said before, I think the faculty in the School of Music are probably thrilled behind closed doors right now. We are witnessing either the toppling of the Ohio State University Marching Band as we know it, or will likely witness a radical change that we might not like five or 10 years from now (and that is not in any way saying you can't have TBDBITL without alleged "sexual harassment").

+7 HS
cronimi's picture

Andy, I agree with your first paragraph and hope to god you're wrong in the second paragraph (last sentence, anyway). 

+1 HS
AndyVance's picture

See my comment further down for more on why I fear this is the reality to which we're awakening...

+1 HS
DaytonBuck1980's picture

Andy, I could not have said this better. I am worried for tbdbitl, our football team and osu as a whole

Still not giving a damn for the whole state of Michigan. 

+3 HS
theshoe's picture

Well then, I guess our only choice now is to also fire all the football coaches because they're being too hard on the players

-1 HS
Urban Nation Army's picture

This isn't why he was fired.

Bet you can't say "Bert Bielma is a bumbling buffoon" five times fast.

+1 HS
Woodywasking69's picture

I have been dressed down much worse than this. If he lied oh well he should be gone. If he knew about the supposed hostile environment and did nothing he should be fired. If the traditions were truly a way of building cohesion and didn't truly over step any boundaries then he should not be fired.

+3 HS
Buckeyebrowny919's picture

The kid that recorded this needs to stop being a bitch..........

And I will say I frickin love this site, but I am really not a fan of feeding into this story. "Vulgarity laced" is wee-bit of a stretch.

To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift - Steve Prefontaine

+3 HS
Buckeyebrowny919's picture

AndyVance...can you ellaborate? I'm unfamiliar as to why the music school would want to bring down one of the greatest things out there? And I mean that seriously.

To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift - Steve Prefontaine

+2 HS
AndyVance's picture

Here's the gist of the struggle between the School of Music and the Marching Band, from a former band member's perspective (emphasis is mine):

Part of the reason for TBDBITL’s reputation of excellence is that it has been fortunate to have a series of very talented directors who mostly held the position of director for an extended period of time, thus providing a sense of stability and continuity. 

There have been factions in the OSU School of Music who have been jealous that the marching band received more attention that the concert bands or orchestras and considering this scandal, I imagine the School of Music will have much more power in supervising the marching band in the future. This could pose a problem if those factions who don’t care for the marching band win out and to see what could happen one only has to look to the north. 

The position of director of the Michigan Marching Band has essentially become a revolving three year position and the lack of stability has resulted in their band no reaching the same heights that it used to in the past. If something like this were to happen at OSU, I imagine it would be hard to hire the best directors to lead the marching band and that means that the students in band would miss out on valuable educational experiences that come from having a highly talented director in place over the long term. 

This is not the first time I've heard of this struggle, for what it's worth. A former officemate had a son in the band, and he related the same power-struggle/jealousy issue five or six years ago. And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense: the Marching Band gets all of the attention, the money, the fame and fortune, so to speak, while several if not most of its members are not music majors. Add to that the latest insult that the director - Waters - is not a Ph.D., and it's easy to see why the hooded class in the School of Music might want to see the titan toppled.

+7 HS
TBDBITL0509's picture

Andy, you're not incorrect about the jealousy, but this feels a bit too sinister for the School of Music. I was in the School of Music and OSUMB. SOM faculty didn't like when their performance track students would join the band, but the real issue was when the band got a brand new multi-million dollar facility while the SOM students were/are still dealing with asbestos in the walls and exploding ancient radiators over at Hughes Hall. 

Still, Jon taught concert bands over at the SOM while he was a grad student. I believe he generally had a great relationship with the SOM. I'm really not sure the SOM has this much sway. 

Oh, and 25% of the band is music majors; it's a recruiting tool for the SOM, as much as they'd hate to admit it. Blaming the SOM just doesn't strike the right chord for me. 

+4 HS
faux_maestro's picture

Thank you for this perspective. I'm a graduate from the School of Music and have done graduate level work there too. Hughes Hall is a dump and quite frankly dangerous. There was concrete crumbling in one of the stairwells this year and it had to be closed off to student traffic. He didn't get fired because anyone in the SOM had it out for him.

Inní mér syngur vitleysingur

+4 HS
chitown buckeye's picture

If I'm reading what Andy wrote correctly, He is not stating someone in the School of Music was involved in the firing. I believe he's stating (I don't want to speak for him) that this scandal may open the door for the School of Music to have power over the marching band. Which in turn could change the marching band as we currently know it.

"I'm having a heart attack!"

+4 HS
AndyVance's picture

You read me loud and clear ChiTown. I don't think the SOM faculty caused this situation, but I doubt they were in the Title IX office begging for Waters' safe passage either.

I'd be curious to know if the people who stirred this up were music majors, but your read of my comment is exactly how I meant it.

+3 HS
TBDBITL0509's picture

I think it's more about what I read from quote you posted, but it was late after a few bourbons. My bigger point is this: it's not in the SOM's best interests to see TBDBITL falter. Not like this. 

The complaint that triggered the investigation came from the mother of a band member. I don't know if she was a music major, but you can likely divorce SOM influence from that angle.

+1 HS
Nuts4Bucks13's picture

I'm a recent graduate of the OSU School of Music in orchestra and I can honestly say that no one that I interacted with, faculty or students, in or around the orchestra had anything but genuine pride in the marching band.  We did completely different things and nobody had it out for the band.  Occasionally their (frankly well-deserved) pride would annoy us but I can definitely tell you that the last thing on our minds as non-band people was what the hell the band was doing. I can't speak for concert band people but fairly frequently I saw the head of the SOM (a concert band person) on the sidelines supporting the band.  I know that the person talks of "factions" but from my experience I do not know what he or she is talking about.  I spoke to my professor to make sure I wasn't crazy and he didn't know of factions either.  Again, however, I'm a string player so it could be that the wind people had a different experience.

+2 HS
cajunbuckeye's picture

Vulgarity-laced tirade? Amateur!

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

+2 HS
IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

I was never in the military, but everyone knows this kind of "tearing down and building back up" has been a cornerstone of training for over a century. Yeah I know, this is a marching band and not the Army. But to be the best at anything you have to have a level of discipline and efficiency that is above everyone else. I get that kind of culture. It has a purpose. If she was sexually harassed that's one thing. If she just couldn't handle getting yelled at that is something else entirely. I have a feeling we're never going to know the entire story. No doubt lawsuit(s) are coming, too.

"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest Civil War analogy EVER.

DaytonBuck1980's picture

Ibleed, I didn't want to bring it up but since u did I will concur. I went through 10 Xs as much while in the army.  What the band did was, in everyday society, unacceptable, but this is not everyday society. In regards to my experiences in the military, I feel that those responsible for protecting the freedoms of the this country, should be expected and willing to sacrifice those same freedoms which they protect. I believe that the same thing goes for those that wish to join an exclusive organization like the band or even the football team for that matter. The rules that apply in the classroom do not apply on the field of play or march. 

Still not giving a damn for the whole state of Michigan. 

Norwalk's picture

I went through AF basic training in 1986. Not once did I hear  a TI use profanity at a trainee. Those SOBs made you feel an inch tall without using profanity. I think they took pride in seeing how creative they could be in dressing down trainees. By the time they started building us back up, they had earned respect from all of us, not just fear. It was important from the AF perspective that they teach good leadership, not just intimidation. If this recording was an isolated incident, I would have very little problem with it. The fact that someone put effort into recording it tells me that he knew what was coming and that this is Water's style of leadership. It would be difficult if not impossible to change the culture without having respectful relationships.

+1 HS
Chip's picture

I agree with the Waters firing, but not because of this.  This is nothing.

-1 HS
causeicouldntgo43's picture

DJ, I bet you've heard worse at an 11W staff meeting.......This is starting to get like Watergate - "what did the band director know, and when did he know it?"

+2 HS
CentralFloridaBuckeye's picture

Yeah, I would agree that this really isn't that bad.  Seems like a non event.

+1 HS
DaytonBuck1980's picture

I've held my tongue for 2 days but I just can't take it anymore. I know Ill get a down pour of DVs for this but this is just ridiculous. "OMG he cussed at someone"! Who the eff cares?!?! I've been cussed at by superiors everywhere I've been and I'm no worse for the wear. Get an effing grip and get over it. Life isn't easy. Sometimes u need to be slapped in the face. I don't agree with everything the band has done but this public crucifixion needs to stop. 

Still not giving a damn for the whole state of Michigan. 

+5 HS
FairfaxBuckeye's picture

He used a few bad words and was very stern. He did not call the student a bad word. 

i don't have a problem with any of it. 

+4 HS
Dirty419Boy's picture

In the long run, the most damage to the school's reputation may come if Jon Waters sues the university, and the administration ends up looking like morons when a parade of former and current band members testify in his favor.

+3 HS
Jeeves's picture

And I hope that is exactly what happens.

+5 HS
Chip's picture

Sue them for what?

-1 HS
Dirty419Boy's picture

Wrongful termination or breach of contract, whichever applies.

Chip's picture

Neither applies. 

-1 HS
Jeeves's picture

Jim O'Brien won his lawsuit after committing NCAA infractions...

+1 HS
Chip's picture

Jim O'Brien wasn't an at-will employee.

MAVBuck's picture

I say worse by the time I shut my alarm clock off most days.

+2 HS
SpielmanForPres's picture

My wife talks to me like that all the time. 

+3 HS
teddyballgame's picture

You know you like it

+4 HS
CarolinaBuck's picture

I've been an observer of Ohio State sports longer than most of you have been alive. The Columbus Dispatch, while better than they used to be, has always run cover for Ohio State. The reason the Dispatch released this audio tape now was to back up Ohio State's decision to fire Waters and further cement the idea that Waters and his program were out of control and had to go.

+6 HS
Earle's picture

Bo Pelini thinks this is such @+?!ing bull#@+).

Italics are for emphasis.

+3 HS
ghalephoto's picture

This conversation was not what got him fired.  There will be more to come out, because if you lose your job calling out a leader behind close doors who obviously ignored a command, there are a lot of folks at OSU and everywhere else in trouble.  The truth better be more than what we have seen, because what I have seen is enough for a guy to lose his job.  This tape is a non-issue.

+1 HS
M Man's picture

"Don't you fuck with me, Wayne!"  ~ Woody Hayes, speaking to then-Big Ten commissioner Wayne Duke

+1 HS
BigBuck623's picture

TBDBITL is a band. Cursing and ridiculous amounts of pride are band culture - everywhere.  As is the turf war, because the sanctimonious mouth-breathers who play the violin assume based on zero data that they should have equal say in anything.  I'll listen to those morons when they get 100,000 people to cheer for one violin performance.

This is pure BS, and Ohio State is worse for it.  Yes, worse.  Waters did not deserve to go - period.

A culture of sexuality?  What is that, precisely?   A live cam at a frat house? Playing MTV's Jock Jams Volume 9 on a loop? If the worst thing he did is force freshmen to run around the campus in the cold with underwear on, that's less hazing than the initiation for OSU's non-varsity club sports and third-tier frats that throw terrible parties.

Everything successful has haters. That doesn't mean it's right to bring it down. Now what, 1940's morality administrators? The point isn't that Waters "was bad" - they now need to provide a solution.  And I don't think they have it.

+1 HS
Chip's picture

Zero data?  There are 23 pages of data in the report.  Waters condoned/encouraged very inappropriate sexual behavior among his students that met every definition of hazing.  His actions would've gotten him fired at any university in the country.

The bottom line is that the OSU marching band is a professional, well-respected organization that's part of an outstanding state-funded university, not a frat.  If you don't like it, well, welcome to 2014.

-2 HS
Bucksfan70's picture

i don't see the problem here. they guy was out of line, wasn't following instructions and was clearly bucking (no pun intended) the chain of command.

this is the best damn band in the land. if people think they're going to just walk in here and do whatever, they are not only going to disrupt the environment that makes our band great, they will also be spreading the idea that others can do that as well (poison). if this happens we will eventually wind up with garbage for a band just like most other schools.

to hell with that!

waters was right, screw that other guy. and tbdbitl does not = democracy.

“Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can accomplish what others can't.” - Jerry Rice

DefendYoungstown's picture

I envision the first day of band camp at tOSU to go something a little like this:

Waters: I am Senior Director Waters, your senior drill instructor. From now on you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and last words out of your filthy sewers will be "Sir". Do you maggots understand that?

Recruits: [In unison in a normal speaking tone] Sir, yes Sir.

Waters: Bullshit I can't hear you. Sound off like you got a pair!

Recruits: [In unison, much louder] SIR, YES SIR!

Waters: If you ladies leave my band room, if you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon. You will be a minister of music praying for Saturdays. But until that day you are pukes. You are the lowest form of life on Earth. You are not even human fucking beings. You are nothing but unorganized grabastic pieces of amphibian shit! Because I am hard, you will not like me. But the more you hate me, the more you will learn. I am hard but I am fair. There is no racial bigotry here. I do not look down on clairnets, flutes, oboes or saxophones. Here you are all equally worthless. And my orders are to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved TBDBITL. Do you maggots understand that?

What we can't do in the air we'll do on the ground.

+1 HS
buckeyehamilton's picture

In the OSUMB in the 80s
This drum major should have been kicked out right then and there. Waters did him a favor by only yelling at him

+4 HS
buckeyehamilton's picture

And I was a music major a well. This is not a school of music and marching band dispute. Waters was a graduate of the school of music too. This is a title 9 issue.

+3 HS
faux_maestro's picture

What a lot of posters here seem to be forgetting here is this: Waters LIED to the investigators. He said in his first interview that he NEVER cursed. The day after the report comes out, and we hear of him possibly fighting to get his job back, we hear tape of him doing exactly what he claimed he hadn't done. That puts a big damper on any of his claims and denials. The tape itself is, in my opinion, not bad at all. But he said nothing like that had ever happened, when in fact it did. 

Inní mér syngur vitleysingur

Jeeves's picture

Was this recording made prior to or after Waters was interviewed by the investigators? Has anyone asked the drum major why he secretly recorded this? Was the drum major one of the handful of people in the band  questioned about the culture?

+1 HS
Murse_Corps's picture

Sounds like Kyle needs some wall to wall counseling 

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Brutus's picture

Sounds like Kyle is a bit of a bitch.

+3 HS
Brutus's picture

I've read the report and listened to the recording and all I can think is BFD. I get that the University had to act after conducting this investigation.  It's an enormous publicly funded institution that is much bigger than any coach or team or band director or whatever. The part I question is whether the University ever really needed to conduct this investigation in the first place. They uncovered exactly what they should have expected: stupid college kids doing stupid college shit, none of which was under the direction of Waters (the underwear ramp thing being the exception and frankly I don't see the big deal, especially since being in your underwear was obviously not mandatory). But in the end, I get that they had to fire him. The University couldn't find out all these things and just let it go. I think the more appropriate course, however, would have been just to tell Waters to clean this shit up and make sure the worst of it stopped from now on. Then they revisit the situation again in a few months and if the nonsense continued, fire and publicly shame him as they've done.

+2 HS
IH8UOFM's picture

The
Best
Damn
Blown-out-of-proportion, berating
In
The
Land

+5 HS
BuckeyeDevil's picture

The recorded tirade didn't get Waters fired. That is a slap on the wrist offense with a warning to clean up the language and to play a little nicer in the sandbox. It is pretty tough if not downright impossible to survive a 23 page report with those types of allegations in 2014. The amazing thing to me is that it took so long for such complaints to take place. I got the impression from reading the report that a lot of what went on was not random but more organized, structured, and known about which was probably the tipping point. It will be interesting to see if TBDBITL remains that or if we will start to see the decline of the band.

+1 HS
M Man's picture

"[O]rganized, structured, and known about [sic]..." ...and completely consensual.

Which would also describe the 'mass nudity, public urination, excessive alcohol, vulgar language and dangerous water-related stunts' known as... The Mirror Lake Jump.

I love this photo and I wish I knew how to credit it; it looks like one of Breugel the Elder's paintings:

+1 HS
Chip's picture

Consensual among some.  Others obviously found it inappropriate and humiliating, which isn't surprising.  Marching band members shouldn't be forced to choose between taking off their clothes and being called explicit nicknames or being ostracized from the rest of the group. That's exactly the kind of hazing that universities are supposed to work hard to protect against.

-2 HS
M Man's picture

You've raised the right question, Chip.  Who was forced to do any of the things that the press has found so salacious?  What we now seem to be getting from band members themselves is that things were a bit wild, and raunchy, and nobody was forced to do any of them.

Where is the large class of injured and abused plaintiff/complainants?  Where are the reports of hundreds of individuals, all claiming to have been traumatized by any abuse?

Here's what the last 24 hours have revealed to me; some female members of the OSU Marching Band used the occasion of "Midnight Ramp" to go shopping at Victoria's Secret.  Former Michigan band members have been saying that, yeah, that culture stretches across all bands (Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio State) although Michigan's band succeeded in confining it to "the Glock bus" (Bus #6 when traveling; volunteers only for that bus.)  Many Alums of TBDBITL observe that the traditions have been going on a long time (and known to everybody who seriously tried out for the band, with more than two applicants for every spot, every year).  And just about all of them have observed that the most outlandish of the traditions were strictly voluntary.

So, yeah, Chip; let's pursue your question.  Who, exactly, was forced to do anything?  The newspapers and the mainstream media will naturally presume that based on the description of events in the leaked report from the Office of University Compliance and Integrity, everyone and anyone was humiliated and offended.  It should not be hard to find complainants.  As a matter of fact, Chip, I expect some of those people to surface now.  Spiking the football, for Title IX Compliance and all.  Actually, it wouldn't be a matter of fact.  It will be a matter of ex post facto.  The real key is figuring out who, before this thing became a statewide media circus, seriously complained that they didn't consent to any hazing in the band.  My guess; practically nobody.

+4 HS
Chip's picture

You should read my comment a little more carefully.  I'm not claiming that any band members were forced into participating in these acts.  However, given that these traditions were ingrained in the culture of the band and that most other students were participating, new band members were forced to make a choice:  Either take off your clothes to march, be called sexually explicit nicknames, be exposed to mock sex acts and heavy drinking while under the watch of band directors, OR do not participate and become ostracized from the group.  That is not a choice that new members should be forced to make.  The fact that you defend this culture and appear to dismiss Title IX as a barely-necessary inconvenience only cements the notion that you aren't unqualified to be giving an opinion on this matter.  Then again, I'm not entirely surprised given your previous defense of Brendan Gibbons.

-1 HS
M Man's picture

Chip, I'm not big on any comparison of the Gibbons situation to the OSU marching band situation.  Gibbons was simply the context in which I warned that Title IX issues would soon find their way to Columbus.  Not because you guys were bad; but because Title IX is going to overrun higher education everywhere.

I was right, it turns out.  Right with a capital R.

And I never defended Gibbons per se.  What I said is that I could not be certain about what happened.  Neither I, nor any of the online cfb fans calling Gibbons a "rapist" could know.  What I said is that nobody had any business presuming that there had been a sexual assault when the prosecutors declined to even take the case after a completed investigation by the police.  And I said that the ONLY reason that Gibbons' case was revisited as a "student conflict resolution" matter within the University of Michigan, was because of the politicization of Title IX since April of 2011.  I am thoroughly correct about ALL of that.  It is the officially-stated position of the University of Michigan; they changed everything in response to the "Dear Colleague" letter.  And now, by the unambiguous terms of the OSU band investigation, they are operating under the new Title IX dictates.  The investigation report says so.

+3 HS
faux_maestro's picture

I knew many band members back in the day (mid 1990's) who felt uncomfortable participating in some of these rituals. Male and female. They complained to/commiserated with friends rather than take action because they didnt want to take on the previous director or cause themselves to become ostracized among their peers.

Inní mér syngur vitleysingur

+1 HS
bucksfan92's picture

LOL calling this a "tirade" is one hell of a stretch.  It sounds a lot more like someone who was goofing off got caught and was disciplined.  He is not yelling in this audio, barely raises his voice once.  Yeah there is profanity, but I have heard much, much worse in the workplace.  My God we have become a nation of pansies who can't handle anything anymore.  

+4 HS
SilverBullet-98's picture

Way to many anal-retentive parents and authoritarians abusing their power .

I blame the media, they can make a candle flame into a forest fire , the use these so called writer's and blogger's mentality with Salem Witch Trial eugenics in their blood vessels.

People fight the disputes they can win easy instead of the hard ones that are more a gray area and need debated. It's sad social media has turned into such a polarizing force the totalitarians.

"The Past Builds the Future"

-1 HS
Chip's picture

When are people going to stop blaming the media for every bad thing that happens to OSU?  When O'brien was fired, it was from a witch hunt in the media. When Tressel was fired, it was the due to the media blowing the scandal out of proportion.  When Gee resigned, the media forced him out.  When Hyde was suspended, it was because the media pressured Meyer into it. When we're ranked too low or a recruit doesn't have 5 stars, it's because of ESPN's crusade against OSU.  When Waters is fired, it's all the media's fault.  

I think it's time to consider the possibility that every now and then, people affiliated with OSU act badly. 

-3 HS
Fear The Elf's picture

This is starting to remind me of when Bob Knight was fired from Indiana.

The incident that "got him fired" was relatively minor. A random IU student said, "Hey Knight" to him. Knight grabbed him. In a vacuum, it's not a big story. The kid deserved to be reprimanded, but Knight could've done it without grabbing him.

During the press conference, Miles Brand listed numerous similar, recent incidents. None of them were firing worthy, but when added together, it was the proverbial "straw that broke the camels back."

This incident here is not a fireable offense. But when he's already under suspicion, it might the final push.

+4 HS
Arizona_Buckeye's picture

I believe any coach that has been employed at any university has utter the same or worse - not sure what the big deal is with this other then trying to sling more dirt on his grave.

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

+1 HS
toledobuckeyefanjim's picture

Waters sounds like a former mayor of Toledo in that tirade excerpt. I won't name his name. Anyone from Toledo on this site will know who I mean.

You don't talk to people like that. If Jon were talking to an adult, he'd get punched out. He's lucky on that not happening to him. He got away with a lot of crap. As much as I enjoyed TBDBITL's halftime shows under Waters' direction, he deserved his comeupance.

+1 HS
tracyre's picture

Why is this a story?  Love 11W, but this feels like they are just perpetuating a non story.   

+2 HS