Opinion: Terrelle Pryor Was Not a Traitor

By DJ Byrnes on April 21, 2014 at 12:27p
126 Comments

A r/CFB thread today asks "Who is the biggest traitor to your program?" For whatever reason, some Ohio State fans have replaced the obvious answer of Bo Schembechler with Terrelle Pryor. 

Ironically, Terrelle Pryor was something often confused with traitor; he was a trader. He traded his alien athletic ability and memorabilia for free and discounted tattoos. According to former Ohio State Buckeye Antonio Pittman, Pryor was far from the first Ohio State player to do this.

There is nothing wrong with this outside of the NCAA's inane, arbitrarily-enforced rulebook.

Had Jim Tressel used anything besides his school-issued email address, Terrelle Pryor would've shattered all OSU quarterbacking records. He didn't, however, and the Tressel era deteriorated pretty quickly from there. 

Pryor, like Tressel, fell on his sword for the good of the university. Only the most naive Ohio State fans believe Pryor couldn't have burned Ohio State to the ground by simply picking up a phone and dialing the NCAA or any other national media outlet who would've loved to drive a knife into the gut of the historic program.

No, despite being dissociated from the university while his old coach was getting honored in Ohio Stadium, Terrelle Pryor never sold the university out.

The young man never won a national title at Ohio State, but he did bring Columbus two BCS bowl victories, including one over an SEC team. (Sorry, NCAA, the streets still remember who won the 2011 Sugar Bowl). 

And after suffering through a 6-7 season due to Tatgate fallout, Ohio State hired Urban Meyer. Without Pryor (or the Tat Five in general), Urban Meyer would likely be coaching somewhere else right now. (81% of 11W readers polled said if given the chance, they wouldn't replace Urban Meyer with Jim Tresssel.)

Was Pryor perfect at Ohio State? Hardly, but he was far from a traitor.

126 Comments

Comments

chitown buckeye's picture

Yeah, the hate for this kid seems very misplaced. By that thought process Tressel is the biggest traitor. Pryor didn't bring down OSU over tatgate, Tressel did.

"I'm having a heart attack!"

+12 HS
bucksfan92's picture

I have never understood the hate for Pryor.  He won 30+ games 3 B1G titles and 2 BCS bowl games.  I can't think of any other QB I would have rather had under center during his years here.

The hate needs to be directed at Tressel.  Why on Earth OSU fans still like the man is beyond me.  His incompetence at handling a minor NCAA violation set the program on the downward spiral that was the 2011 season. We are still recovering from it.

-10 HS
J.Mo's picture

It is beyond you that Ohio State fans still love Jim Tressel? The National Championship plus all the National Championship contending years, numerous B1G champions, and the best record in The Game... how any Buckeye fan can't forgive Jim Tressel and remember all the good he did and hate on the man is beyond me.

+9 HS
swainpm's picture

Couldn't agree with you more J.Mo sure we were all a bit angry at Tress and Pryor but time heals all wounds. Great Buckeyes, Tress will always be a favorite of mine. The man did everything for his players, and in the end he lost out for some sorry NCAA rules. I personally still prefer Tressel to any coach, but maybe Urban can change that:)

+4 HS
acBuckeye's picture

Why on Earth OSU fans still like the man is beyond me

It's because we are able to look past his transgressions, and we realize that the positives he brought to his players, the university, and the community far outweigh losing his job based on some archaic NCAA "rule."

Maybe you should try it too.

Buckeye80's picture

While I agree, that most of the blame should be put on Tressel, there are plenty of reasons to still like him.  Did you see the 30 for 30 Youngstown Boys?  He said that he did the right thing once, and he saw Clarrett spiral downward, from getting kicked out of school, all the way to prison.  He said he wasn't taking a chance of that happening again.  Right or wrong, I don't know if I would have done anything different.

+1 HS
chitown buckeye's picture

Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but I like Tress. I was simply pointing out that he was the reason for the harsh sanctions, getting fired, etc.. The hate that gets spread to Pryor is unwarranted as I would expect mistakes to happen to a young 20 yr old man. However, I would expect a man like Tressel to understand the implications on not just him but the University, when he made the decision to lie to the NCAA. Pryors mistake was a boneheaded, dumb thing that you expect from young college kids. Tressels mistake was a calculated decision/ risk at which he knew what the damage would be if caught. Tressel's mistake for the right or wrong reasons, brought down OSU, not the Tat-5.

"I'm having a heart attack!"

mh277907's picture

It is extremely peculiar to me the difference between the narrative about Johnny Manziel and the one written on TP. I would imagine many more people would have been in TP and Co.'s corner had TatGate happened today.

buckeyebobcat

+25 HS
buckeyepastor's picture

Agree about Manziel.  The tide has changed and Manziel has become the poster-boy for opposition to the NCAA.   Which I'm glad for, but also a bit irked by.  Glad that someday players getting some help and support and being able to get a piece of the pie will be legal.  Irked that while many players who truly had financial hardships were severely penalized for breaking the rules over the years, it is a pampered, wealthy, arrogant, disrespectful brat at aTM that is now celebrated for breaking the rules and gaming the system.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

+13 HS
Whosisbrew's picture

I truly believe that it's, at least in part, because Johnny Manziel is white. And I'm not some bitter man playing the race card, it's just what I truly believe.

I'll never forget when Pryor, Herron and the others were marched out in front of the media that day as if they'd all murdered infant children. Pryor wasn't a bad egg, but he was prone to saying foolish things. Writers ate this incident up and spun it as his defining character flaw in a narrative that had several small ones before it. It's all as nonsensical to me today as it was then.

But everyone, for some reason, rallies to Manziel's cause.

+9 HS
jbirmmd's picture

No one here really can know this, but I am also not one to pull out the "race card" on a frequent basis, but I do feel that the difference in treatment (by the media at least) had a lot to due with skin pigment. 

I, for one, will never understand how Manziel got off so easy particularly when one recalls how much OSU was raked over the coals just a few years earlier. 

+1 HS
cal3713's picture

It never hurts to be rich and white.

[Except when you're running for president... yeah, right, Romney]

-1 HS
theopulas's picture

well...being a poor candidate didn't help along with out sourcing jobs....but for some reason i voted for him.....just a bad candidate....maybe Herman....

Theopulas

-3 HS
TheBadOwl's picture

We need a president like Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.

 

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

45has2's picture

Out sourcing jobs? Mitt was a piker compared to Slick willy. NAFTA. Pay offs from the Chinese with Algore as the bagman. Please.

"I don't like nice people. I like tough, honest people." -W.W. Hayes

-4 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Fellas, please...

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

BassDropper's picture

The biggest traitors of the program is the guys who were selling out their former teammates to the the investigators snooping around C-bus. Discounts, free gifts, "hookups" happen everywhere at every major school. I don't want to mention any names, but just last night I saw something crazy that made me realize just how big Ohio State football is in this city. I work at a bar and a bunch of Ohio State players came in for our event that was 21+, over half of the players were underage (true freshman, freshman, sophs) a few were visibly drunk and had no business entering the building. We have police officers outside of the bar who saw how belligerent some of these guys were. The price of admission last night was $15, instead of waiting in line, one of our star players (again, not mentioning names) went up to the police officer, and the next thing I see is a group of 10 or so Buckeyes walking past the line (and me who was checking IDs and taking money) in to the bar. 

These kind of things happen everywhere. I literally watched an NCAA violation take place right in front of my eyes, and out in public. These kind of situations remind me of a quote from one of my favorite philosophers, Booker T, "Don't hate the player, hate the game." 

DIRECTIONER

+3 HS
AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Saw something similar a few weeks ago involving the punter from FSU. At a well known local restaurant, the player was with a group of friends. At the end of the meal, he called one of the owners over to the table and asked for the entire check to be comped. To the owners credit, he declined as said that would be an NCAA violation. He did, however discount the bill) pretty sure it's the same thing).

I was struck how unabashedly the player asked-there was ZERO shame or hesitation in it. Something tells me it's fairly routine.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

+2 HS
LexingtonBuckeye's picture

I was at a bar in Lexington this winter, I walk upstairs and the entire UK basketball team is there (minus the walk-ons and white guys, a little redundant, I know). There are no 18+ bars in Lexington. All of them are 21+... I saw some interesting things going on to say the least. This goes on everywhere, and didn't bother me. If we call out college kids for going to bars underage, no one would field a team.

+5 HS
Osurrt's picture

Ha Angel.......you should have asked for the same discount the FSU punter received so as not to create an NCAA violation of special Priviledges from the restaurant.......better you would have gotten comped.

OSUSMC's picture

I remember seeing a certain 7ft center ripping shots at Panini's, with huge Xs across both hands. To the credit of those serving him he certainly looked closer to 45yo

+6 HS
Tferg's picture

I don't understand "Bassdropper".  If you knew they were under age why did you let the individuals into the establishment?  Looks to me like both parties were in the wrong.

+2 HS
BassDropper's picture

Im not going to be "that guy" who argues with the police because they broke a rule that involves my favorite team... if the police thinks it is ok to let underage kids drink, then who am I to complain?

DIRECTIONER

+1 HS
BUCKfutter's picture

Tough to give these cops crap for looking the other way when we see what happened at FSU...

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

+1 HS
bucndc's picture

Bassdropper

I know if that situation happened to me, that would be a hard story to keep quiet. I am not sure that this is the best place to be telling your story, though.

 

+3 HS
BeijingBucks's picture

I thought you quit or something BD?  Anyway, the irony of Pryor going to the Seahawks is... Interesting. 

a coach many hated (but now have to respect) with the option to develop a player many are undecided if they want to love or hate.

love it. 

 

 

None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. ~ John Milton

+3 HS
BeijingBucks's picture

Ugh. Twitchy thumb double post. 

well might as well edit to say though I'm not a fan of his opinions herbstreit and the plethora of other OSU announcers really does speak volumes for playing sports and getting a degree in sports journalism at OSU. Whether a straight shooter or a douchebag recruits notice these things I bet. 

 

 

None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. ~ John Milton

BUCKfutter's picture

Agree completely.  He could have agreed to talk to the NCAA and who knows what that would have meant.  Staying silent, which essentially meant taking the fall and ending his college career, was a huge solid to OSU in the long run.

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

+6 HS
NW Buckeye's picture

DJ - You are spot on with this analysis.  I don't always agree with you on some of your opinions, but you could not have stated this better.  Thank you. 

+4 HS
MikeNugents BigToe's picture

 

"Remember that 55 yarder against Marshall?" -Not Mike Nugent

+4 HS
JozyMozy's picture

This is probably my favorite #hot #take that DJ has written for this site. Excellent choice of main photo, as well. Well done, m8

+1 HS
AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

I think this belief stems from the DiGeronimo (sp) incident. It occurred reaaaaaly close to him being declared ineligible for the following season and allowed to enter the supplemental draft. Or something like that. Can't remember the details, but I seem to remember some debate over this once upon a time.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

osu07asu10's picture

Pryor was trying to gain acceptance into the supplemental draft.  It was reported that he leaked the DiGeronimo stuff to the NCAA/NFL to show that his eligibility (or lack there of) was impacted by an event that was past the entry date for the NFL draft, allowing him to be eligible for the supplemental draft.

In the end though, Pryor never spoke to the NCAA regarding DiGeronimo or any other allegation.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Just because he didn't talk to NCAA, doesn't make the leak any less 'traitorous'. Not saying he did leak or anything, just saying if he did, that's a little on the traitor-y side.

Besides, if Posey can forgive him, I'm sure we all can.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

osu07asu10's picture

Just because he didn't talk to NCAA, doesn't make the leak any less 'traitorous'. Not saying he did leak or anything, just saying if he did, that's a little on the traitor-y side.

Sure, and nobody knows for sure if Pryor or his camp leaked the info or not and I doubt we ever will.

 As DJ pointed out though, Pryor never spoke to the NCAA and if he did, he very well could have brought the program to its knees. Regardless of his selfish decisions and actions that led to Tatgate, not speaking to the NCAA was one of the least selfish and loyal things that Pryor could have done for the program.

Did he not talk to the NCAA because of his love for the university? Tressel? Teammates? We'll never know that either but the bottom line is, at a time when he was being brutally dispatched by the fan base, students, and university he stayed silent.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Just because he didn't talk to NCAA, doesn't make the leak any less 'traitorous'. Not saying he did leak or anything, just saying if he did, that's a little on the traitor-y side.

Besides, if Posey can forgive him, I'm sure we all can.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

-4 HS
Squirrel Master's picture

actually, Digeronimo had little to do with Pryor's reputation. He was actually more involved with the improper reimbursements to 3 other players that ended up getting suspended. Pryor was the go between but it was well before that Pryor was considered a traitor. I actually blame Digeronimo for what happened to Boom Heron and Devier Posey!

Pryor's reputation was mostly about Tatgate and the stories about getting free cars from a dealership, which ended up being false.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

+2 HS
osu07asu10's picture

SM, Pryor had a relationship with DeGeronimo and you are spot on that he ran the reimbursements to the other players. 

As the rumor goes though, Pryor leaked the DeGeronimo info to the NFL in order to gain access to the supplemental draft. In essence, he  tossed his teammates under the bus for his own self interests.

Nobody truly knows how the DeGeronimo info leaked. The info on the banquet and jobs came after Pryor had left the university.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

-1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Traitor? Not at all.

Was Pryor respectful of the university? The football program? Tradition? Teammates? Coaches? Absolutely not.

Pryor made selfish decisions that ended up hurting the program, his teammates, and coaches dearly. Is the system he participated in and was punished by corrupt? Sure, but Pryor knew that from day 1.

The lasting image I have of Pryor is Jim Tresel resigning and Pryor getting into his 350z, tearing out of the WHAC, blowing a red light and driving off, all in front of a camera crew:

 

Pryor is far from a traitor. He was at the very least extremely unaware and aloof of the consequences his behavior had on players, coaches, and program. Maybe he didn't know, maybe he did, however when you are being investigated for impermissible benefits, and show up in a  sports car well, you just add fuel to the fire and aid the perception and narrative the media created.

EDIT: With that being said, I still support Pryor. He was a buckeye, he IS a buckeye. He is NOT a traitor and I think time heals all wounds and hopefully Terrelle can come home one day in the future.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+14 HS
Furious George 27's picture

I would consider Herbsreit a traitor for some of the comments he has made about OSU away from  football, TP made a bad decision that could have been dealt with appropriately.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

+5 HS
buckeyepastor's picture

Pryor was a selfish, narcissistic young man, which made him like many elite college athletes.   He broke the rules in such a way that he could have been suspended for a handful of games.   It was Tressel's choices that made it into what it was.   I love Jim Tressel, always will.  But that's the truth of it, to me.   I think Pryor has made some poor choices in his life, but he's not a villain.   As for the "we should be THANKFUL because it brought us Urban," I'm not quite ready to go there.   I am glad Meyer is OSU's coach, and am still very hopeful that we'll see him bring a title to Ohio State.   But so far Urban's teams, in spite of the 24-0 win streak, are 0-2 in the two biggest games of his tenure.   He has our program back in the national conversation, but so far under his leadership we've won the games that we were expected to win.   2012 had a couple surprises where we played above expectations.   2013, for all its great moments, was a season where we beat all the inferior opponents and fell short against those who were more our equals.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

+6 HS
Xenia_Buckeye's picture

I tend to think of Jim Tressel as more of the traitor than Pryor. Who doesn't know that the cover-up is always worse than the mis-deed? Jim reports the incident like the rule book says too...this all goes away for the most part. But I digress...even Tressel pales in compaison to the traitorous Herbstreit.

I could and have gone on about what I believe about Herbie and his 'slanderous' attacks on the fine institution that is known as THE OSU...but he still sucks and me just ranting will not change his suckiness.

Buckeyeneer's picture

Anyone who thinks Pryor is a traitor is an idiot.

The answer is obviously Maurice Clarett.

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes

THE Ohio State University

+1 HS
USMC11917's picture

Traitor, no. He was a poor embassador to our program though. I felt embarassed everytime he made an absurd comment. I did enjoy his fake ass Buckeye comment although it wasn't the right thing to say. He was a helluva an athlete and we won some big games. Even though Braxton has failed to win that big BCS game I still am more proud of the way he represents the university.

As others have noted, regardless of the picture of him jumping on Eddies back, I still feel as if Herby is one of our biggest traitors. He doesn't waste an opportunity to distance his affiliation with the school in pursuit of "fair and neutral" commentating.

+7 HS
teddyballgame's picture

On the field, TP was a great QB for us...simply a winner.

He said some funny things and made some mistakes during his time, but I still got love for him.

I've lost a ton of respect for the NCAA since then though.

Hovenaut's picture

I made my peace with it, and I was completely disgusted with the program when it all went down. Time heals all wounds.

I've run into more Penn State fans who felt/feel TP was a traitor (in spurning the chance to be a Nittany Lion) to their program than I do OSU fans (over his role in Tatgate and subsequently leaving the program).

I think the day still comes where Pryor would be (feel) welcome back in Columbus - and I'm good with that.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I am not very smart.

+1 HS
original buckeye's picture

This conversation begins and ends with Kirk Herbstreit.  IMO, the guy has made a career out of trashing his alma mater, trolling the OSU fan base, and getting into Twitter wars with OSU fans.  It's pathetic.

+2 HS
TheBadOwl's picture

The Herbstreit hate on here gets ridiculous.

Sure, it would be nice if someone in the media had the scarlet-colored glasses that we all do and used their position to blow sunshine up our asses, but Herbie is a true professional and one of the best college football analysts in the business.

We have a fanbase here that takes every opportunity to shit all over Fickell and to question Tom Herman's playcalling during a season where our offense set records, yet if Herbie says anything other than "Ohio State should be ranked #1" everyone here thinks that he's being overly critical.

As for the twitter stuff, believe it or not, we have some really awful twitter fans. We have fans who tweet nasty stuff at recruits who choose other schools. Hell, I know a guy who's a prominent member of Block O who tweeted "Wow, we suck" during one of our more frustrating games this year, and then after we won said "Screw all the haters, we're undefeated, go Buckeye Nation."

So, yeah, we have some shitty fans on twitter, and I don't blame Herbie for going after them. He's not trolling our fanbase as a whole, he's trolling the shitty fans who give us a bad name. The same ones that ran him out of town.

I don’t like moving. I love living here. I don’t want to leave. But I just can’t do this anymore. I really can’t keep going like this.

Eighty to ninety percent of the Ohio State fans are great. It’s the vocal minority that make it rough. They probably represent only 5 to 10 percent of the fan base, but they are relentless.

And yeah, "The Ohio State University" is our official name. Believe it or not, Herbie gets it:

I'm in the minority here, but I think Herbie is a great representative for our university. He's the face of ESPN's college football coverage. With all of the players who come into the program looking for degrees in broadcasting, they can look at him as the face of college football broadcasting.

His job is to be impartial, not to promote the Buckeyes. Everyone knows that he's an Ohio State alum. The best thing he can do to promote the university is by doing his job, and doing it well. And that's exactly what he's been doing. He is by no means a traitor to the program.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

+5 HS
AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

I have plenty to say about Herbie, but I'll go with the obvious: was it impartiality that placed us below the Razorbacks in his final poll AFTER we beat them in the bowl game?

Just one valid explanation of that, and I'll change my opinion.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

+6 HS
osu07asu10's picture

I have plenty to say about Herbie, but I'll go with the obvious: was it impartiality that placed us below the Razorbacks in his final poll AFTER we beat them in the bowl game?

Not defending Herbie but that's not a great example of impartiality seeing that many (not just Herbie) felt that tOSU shouldn't have been able to use Pryor, Adams, Posey, Herron.  Do we beat them without those guys? Are we better than Arkansas without  them? I'm sure that weighed on voters minds when filling out their final ballot.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+4 HS
AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

A lot of people outside the south felt maybe Auburn should not play for a title during the Cam Newton situation, but what did that matter? That's a poor excuse.

And speaking of Cam, I remember Herbie imploring all of cfb to wait until all the evidence was out before rushing to judgement on Cam's matter. However, he practically tripped over his frosty - locks to out the Tat 5 situation during a prime time game.

You think I want Herbie to be viewed like this? Hell no. I'm pissed he goes out of his way to look so impartial-as if it gives him some kind of auto-credibility in his role on TV. You know what it does? Among other things, it forces folks like me who live in the south to hear one more example of why we suck so bad - our own alums don't have our back (heard this countless times).

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

+1 HS
TheBadOwl's picture

The Cam Newton investigation turned up no actual evidence of money changing hands or rules being broken. Pryor, Posey, Adams, Herron, etc. all got caught. It's not a valid comparison.

Also, Herbie's job as an analyst demands that he's impartial. That doesn't mean he's betraying his alma mater, it means that he's doing his job.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

-3 HS
AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

You sure? I thought it was just they couldn't tie Cam to it. Even so, pretty sure it was determined his services were solicited-and the attempt is a clear violation-money changing hands or not.

And I would love if he would do his job. The job if objectivity. How is going out of your way to demean your school (for your personal gain) any different than being an unapologetic homer?

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

-1 HS
lamplighter's picture

impartial my ass - he goes out of his way to denigrate the product.  He manages to gush over other products.  If he is a "fan", he is a damn good actor. Kellog is much better as an anlyst and as an alum, imo

-1 HS
I_Run_The_Dave's picture

The NCAA ruled them eligible, so why wouldn't we play them?  Why does our team strength with or without them matter?  We won the game.

+2 HS
osu07asu10's picture

The NCAA ruled them eligible, so why wouldn't we play them?  Why does our team strength with or without them matter?  We won the game.

The NCAA also reversed course, ruled them retroactively ineligible and stripped the Sugar Bowl victory from us, as well as every other game that season.

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have played them. However, tOSU, B1G, and the BCS used an archaic NCAA rule to play the Tat4 in the Sugar Bowl. It definitely wasn't par for the course.

So I wouldn't put much stock into the NCAA rulings. It was absolutely a subjective call from voters and I'm sure that he is not the only one who dinged the buckeyes in their polls.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Didn't this happen because of Tressel? Don't tell me you honestly believe Herbie dropped us in his final poll bc of Tatgate. Or bc he was sleepy. It's called PANDERING. And I have no respect for it or for him.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

-2 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Not defending Herbie but that's not a great example of impartiality seeing that many (not just Herbie) felt that tOSU shouldn't have been able to use Pryor, Adams, Posey, Herron.  Do we beat them without those guys? Are we better than Arkansas without  them? I'm sure that weighed on voters minds when filling out their final ballot.

But that wasn't what he said. He said he was "sleepy" when he did it.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

But that wasn't what he said. He said he was "sleepy" when he did it.

Come on BVTW, and you believe that after he had his public twitter spat with TP during the season?

Again, not defending him here but if we want to use an example of impartiality, using a bowl game where we played players using an archaic and seldom (never) used bylaw to skirt the rules is probably not the best vehicle to get your point across.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
Furious George 27's picture

So we shouldn't question his impartiality because the NCAA allowed them to play and you don't agree with the rules in place? Quite frankly its irrelevant what anyone thinks about their rules no matter how ridiculous they are. The NCAA is who enforces the rules, so it does not matter what Herbie thinks... His job is to analyze the teams on the field, not question whether or not players should play.

I dislike him for his BS away from football, he often does and says things that have no rellevance to football or the forum he is  speaking at " While speaking at Friday’s “They’re Off!” luncheon for the Kentucky Derby, former Buckeye QB and ESPN analyst Kirk Herbstreit shared his thoughts on alumni that add the word “The” to Ohio State University..." I have NEVER said 'The' Ohio State, and I never will. It is pompous and stupid." The guy is entitled to his own opinion, but he has no one to blame but himself for the hate that he has recieved over the years.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

+1 HS
Squirrel Master's picture

I don't think Herbie is a traitor but I do have beef with the guy for going so far out of his way to avoid any nice statement about OSU when the time is appropriate. I don't doubt for one bit he is all buckeye but he really needs to stop it with the "I'm an impartial commentator" stuff. I'm not asking him to be a total homer but don't avoid the moment when asked about something nice to say when the topic comes up. I can't think of a specific moment now but he was asked directly about OSU and he said something sideways and absolutely changed the topic to another game or team. They threw him a bone to talk positive and he avoided it!

It just seems like he goes so far out of his way to avoid any nice comment about them, homer or not. It's not being a homer to say something positive every now and then. And I personally think it makes him look fake, despite my belief he does love the buckeyes.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

+2 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

The same ones that ran him out of town.

Ran him out of town? The same people that believe that also believe LeBron would have been a Buckeye if he had went to college.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

NitroBuck's picture

I agree that Herbstreit gets too much grief from our fanbase.  I'm proud of what our fellow Alum has accomplished.  I wish only that he could be more like Clark Kellogg in being openly proud of his Alma Mater, while remaining completely objective about the action and issues.  The one instance I have trouble with is his role in the Alamo Bowl broadcast several years ago.  The ESPN game crew (including Herbstreit) spent the entire second half ripping on the Buckeyes over Troy Smith's suspension and the resurfacing of the Clarett issues.  They were so intent on calling for heads to roll at OSU that they completely lost track of what was happening on the field.  Herbstreit was not as scathing scathing in his comments as the rest of the crew, but said nothing on OSU's behalf either.  He could have easily done so without coming across as a homer, but chose to follow ESPN's marching orders instead.  After 8 years, I am still pissed off at ESPN.  I am more forgiving toward Herbstreit, as I'm convinced he was told to go with the flow on a night when his partners and network were out for blood.  But I will never forgive ESPN for that debacle. 

Ferio.  Tego.

USMC11917's picture

If his job is a profession then I expect him to act professional, not to bicker with low life's in the public eye and especially not to get in pissing matches with other college athletes that are currently enrolled. That in itself appears to be a major conflict of interests. As far as I can see it, Herbie is far away from but enroute to Mark May status.

+1 HS
original buckeye's picture

No one's claiming that Herbie's job is to promote the Buckeyes, so I'm not sure you (directed at thebadowl) understand the argument.  Let me help--when Herbie, a grown man, is getting into Twitter wars with the starting QB at OSU (who was, after all, a college kid at the time), there's a problem.  And that's just the tip of the iceberg.  Oh, and please spare me the "he was run out of town" BS--you shouldn't be so naive to buy Herbie playing the victim card. 

+1 HS
45has2's picture

There is a difference between running out of town and being run out of town. Herbie performed better than Usain Bolt on his way to Memphis or wherever his SEC mommy lives. You mention people shitting all over Luke. There was also the infamous pizza boy incident. Is the Fickell family still in town? Why? Because he is a MAN, not a whiney little snit with hurt feelings. As far as Buckeye broadcasters go, you cannot get much more fair than Spiels. He may not be the most polished speaker but he is honest and has integrity. When the Bucks are stinking it up he will say so and explain why. Just the thought of any idiot fans, no matter how many, running Spiels out of C-bus makes me laugh out loud and makes me want to see someone try it.

"I don't like nice people. I like tough, honest people." -W.W. Hayes

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

I couldn't have said it any better!

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

Athens BuckCat's picture

While Pryor was no role model student-athlete, I will never view him as a traitor. Sure, he messed up, but so did Tressel and so did other players. TP also won some big games for us (and UFM eventually came along), which makes it easier for me to gloss over his troubles while at OSU

+2 HS
IH8UOFM's picture

I don't like to play Devil's Advocate, but sometimes (especially during this time of year) I can't help but think what might have been had TP returned for his Senior season. Like DJ said, records:broken. Heisman? Maybe. National Champoinship? It was certainly possible. I was/always will be a huge supporter of him. I know his actions set the University back light years and its inexcusable. 

I happen to know for a fact that he would like nothing more than to make amends and be close to the program again. Hopefully when Urban hoists the crystal football in 8.5 months the process will begin.

CGroverL's picture

Sure, his actions set the program back, but he was no traitor. The same with Tressel. When it came down to it, they both did what was best for the program. They kept their mouths shut except for an apology here and there. The whole situation was do to our favorite ENTERTAINMENT network...the SEC faithful still think that espin is a sports news channel because they provide "celebrity" ex-athletes that give their opinions when they should have their mouths shut. Espin made Tatgate their #1 priority for a month and they put more work into it than the government put into the JFK assassination.

Pryor's senior season??? Well you made great points about what that group of Buckeyes could have done if Tatgate hadn't been an issue. In '08...3 losses (lost their BCS bowl game), in '09...2 losses (won their BCS bowl game), and then in '10...1 loss (won their BCS bowl game)...Pryor-led teams just kept improving and went to 3 straight BCS bowls. After those 3 successful seasons, both Pryor and Tressel just split. I'll always think they left the way that they did for Ohio State football, not against Ohio State football.

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

+3 HS
Squirrel Master's picture

National championship? I doubt it! At that point, Tressel was already gone so he would have played for Luke Fickell his senior year. Also shortly after, Posey and Boom get suspended for more games basically removing Pryor's best two weapons.

That 2011 team didn't go 6-7 just because TP wasn't on the team. It had a lot more issues. Maybe he would have gotten the heisman but I doubt that too.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

-1 HS
Waltbuck's picture

TP wasn't the role model we all would have liked to have in his position.   He made his mistakes, I for one hold no ill will.  Bottom line is I was at both his BCS wins and will always remember how much fun he was to watch.

Barnsey69's picture

Pryor is not the first or last Buckeye player to get in trouble for this type of stuff. Tatgate exposed an environment that had gotten a little too lose, but it was nothing that we don't read about happening in other places. Pryor may not be a sparkling ambassador for the program, but he does seem to still consider himself a Buckeye. I don't know if Buckeye Nation would welcome him back, but they should. Hell, Chris Carter might have cost us a national title when he lost his eligibility, but he's the toast of the town when he comes home.

I would call Bo, Charles Woodson, and/or Desmond Howard a traitor long before I applied that label to Pryor.

Thank the Maker that I was born in Ohio, cradle of coaches, US Presidents, confederate-stomping Generals, and home of The Ohio State University Football Buckeyes!

+4 HS
buckeyedude's picture

Dude, you nailed it. I don't know why any Buckeye fan would call Pryor, Tressel or even Herbstriet "traitors." Any person from Ohio that calls themselves a TTUN fan is a traitor, IMHO.

 

 

+1 HS
Larrinator's picture

He was the quarterback of the Buckeyes when they beat an SEC team so I will always like Pryor! 

Larson

+3 HS
Ghbuck23's picture

Herbie is the Judas !!

Win Baby , Win

-1 HS
45has2's picture

Yeah, you probably say "The" Ohio State University in a pompous and arrogant way. (sarcasm)

"I don't like nice people. I like tough, honest people." -W.W. Hayes

Bolt's picture

I've always said TP always gave it his all on the field and bled scarlet and grey while he was here. He made some mistakes and then he quietly went away when he didn't really have to. It blows my mind how ready people are to forgive Maurice Clarett, a guy who did try to go out of his way to burn the school down, people forgave Herron and Posey (even after getting busted again after tat-gate)...and then everyone wants to turn their back on Pryor and act like he was the anti-christ. 

+1 HS
hspbuy1's picture

It was Andy Gieger ,I believe, who gave up on MC.  Granted Clarett told his side to the press,He got in some trouble.  Tress tried to save him. IMO OSU turned their backs on him.  I wish Pryor would've sat out his suspension and returned to the team.
 

hspbuy1

GVerrilli92's picture

 

 

But damn.

Easily one of the most talented players in Ohio State and Big Ten history. With TP, 3rd down and anything less than 9-10 yards was seemingly automatic. Hate it had to end the way it did.

How many cheeseburgers are you gunna drive into that dirty old cheeseburger locker Brady Hoke?

+5 HS
UrbanCulture's picture

Those were the good ole days where we actually sent wide receivers over the middle of the field!

+1 HS
luckynutz's picture

I will admit it openly...I freaking love Terrelle Pryor. The kid was anointed the day he signed his letter of intent. After being chased, sought after and courted by a whos who of college football programs. He was the big ticket for most of his young adult life. And was put into a situation none of us can relate to. Did he make some bad decisions? You bet. But ask yourself one question...if you had the world laid at your feet as a teenager, would you act any differently?

People give the other 4 a pass for something reason, yet harbor ill will towards Pryor. Why? Because he was the most visible of the group? Because he didnt always act and speak in a manner people could accept? Because when it all fell down and he faced a tough situation, he bailed? Well...what else could he have done? If he stayed, he would have had to talk to the NCAA. The reporters would dig up any and every discretion of his...no matter how significant. The media circus would have become even more vociferous and unbearable. He simply cut bait and walked away from a school and program I truly believe he loved and appreciated as much as anyone else who donned the uniform. And what happened? The school was he it hands of him. The fans did the same. But he never turned on ohio state.

+2 HS
prdoctor's picture

Totally agree. His main sin was having a big ego. News flash: We've had a few of those in the program over the years.

+2 HS
45has2's picture

If you do not have a big ego you are not going to be extremely successful. Some people confuse ego with arrogance, they are not the same. 

"I don't like nice people. I like tough, honest people." -W.W. Hayes

Hockey Buck's picture

I agree, he did leave and protect the university, but I highly doubt he cared for OSU more than a means to an end. Love to watch him play for OSU, but unlike Tressel who loves the school and the players, TP was only looking to get his. To sell you first pair of gold pants? Is there anything more sacred? Selling autographs, jerseys, shoes, etc, but your gold pants indicates you do not love The Ohio State University and that is what we cannot forgive. Best of luck TP.

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

I'm still waiting for Braxton to do this (nothing against Brax)...TP was a beast!

 

Or this...

 

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+4 HS
BHT's picture

Braxton caught a ball (for a first down) in one of his high school all American games. I remember thinking, that's our future quarterback? I like him! That being said, I agree with you. I would love to see him do both of these, but I think he is too injury prone for the first one.

Bolt's picture

They're two totally different athletes. Terrelle was huge and strong and has great straight forward speed. Braxton's biggest athletic ability is his quick twitch side to side (and back and forth) agility. I saw Pryor do things Brax doesn't and I've seen Brax do a lot of juking and things that Terrelle never did.

osu07asu10's picture

Yeah it wasn't meant to be a comparison, just used Braxton because he is currently the starting QB.

Was really just pointing out what a beast Pryor was. The guy left it all on the field every single game.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

mrspray's picture

I proudly wear my #2 jersey every gameday and have no qualms about it. He's certainly been made out to be a villain, but like so many have said here, look at the circumstances and the people committing the infractions - it seems so petty now...

Some folks are saying that Tressel seems more of the traitor - after the 30 for 30 special on he and Clarett, I feel like the whole situation blew up with Tressel "protecting" those players because he left like he abandoned Clarett. I think he's looking out for the best interests of the students, and whether he was actually doing so, I think his intentions were at least in the right place.

+4 HS
Angry Panda's picture

Absolutely agree, and look how different TP's NFL career would be had this nonsense been looked at through today's anti ncaa sentiment. He would have been drafted in at least the 3rd round if not the 2nd, maybe the 1st if someone reached, and would actually be given a chance instead of the hole he landed in in Oakland. It was just all so silly.   
 

+1 HS
BucksFan2000's picture

Young or not, he did say this:

“That's my school, but they don't really accept me. I've moved on to what I have now, and that's just football. ... Those guys kicked me out of school after all those things I did for them. ”

And this:

"Not everybody's the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever. I think that people need a second chance, and I've always looked up to Mike Vick, and I always will."

 

Great player, but great person?  I've never gotten that impression.

TheBadOwl's picture

It's tough to be eloquent when talking about something like that.

I have a buddy who had a class with Pryor and used to play basketball with him at the RPAC, and he said that TP was just a goofy, fun dude. I've heard people say that he was a douche, but honestly, if you were friends with him, he was apparently one of the funniest dudes to hang out with.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

THEOSUfan's picture

When TP announced he was going to "The University of Ohio State" I think there was apprehension along with excitement for the talent that was obviously there.  He proved that both initial feelings were legitimate.

 NCAA regs say you can't sell your own stuff.  He did.  If he held The Ohio State University in higher regard than he did himself, he would not have done it.  At the same time, what other situation is there where someone can't sell their own stuff?  The NCAA has some responsibility here for creating scandal out of normal human activity.

Traitor?  No.  A self-absorbed kid with enormous talent who made some mistakes in judgment?  Oh, yeah.  If we put ourselves in his shoes, we might feel exactly how he felt, and do exactly what he did.

 

 

+3 HS
The Rill Dill's picture

He was a 20 year old jackass.  I'm sure he regrets the mistakes he made.  Dumbass, yes-----traitor, no.  I'd start him on my team, TODAY.  In fact, so would everyone on this board.  He was an absolute STUD player for the scarlet and gray.

+6 HS
BHT's picture

He made a mistake that at the time, that he thought was cool. Is he an idiot, maybe, but a traitor, NO. I do not like him though. He has said some things about Ohio State that I don't agree with and them there was this scandal. I do not like him, but he was not a traitor.

+1 HS
theopulas's picture

sometime after feeling that you have been wronged, you to might say the wrong thing while in anger....this kid showed up in Buffalo rooting for our bb team and joined in the chant....,OH........IO.......

Theopulas

+1 HS
BHT's picture

Point made, but it does not make me like him better.

Art Harrell's picture

T.P.never a traitor, I would share my lunch with him any day-Kirk is evil and a traitor he belongs in Tenn. Go Bucks

bleedscarlet's picture

Pryor is no more a traitor than someone who cheats on their taxes, Bo however..........

I'm too drunk to taste this chicken

+2 HS
sivaDavis's picture

The amount of money I'd pay to see Terrelle Pryor in Urban's offense is sickening. Perfect QB for his system. Tall, physical, powerful arm, good awareness, fast... The man was just a total package. Dude was ready for college ball his Junior year in high school and just balled out. And he got even bigger and better when he got here. Homie was David Boston yoked. 

"I've had smarter people around me all my life, but I haven't run into one yet that can outwork me. And if they can't outwork you, then smarts aren't going to do them much good." - Woody Hayes

+4 HS
Deadly Nuts's picture

PRYOR TO THE SEAHAWKS!

LEBRON

+1 HS
Fuzzbuck's picture

Traitor no, but both Tress, TP, and others simply did not use their freaking common sense to keep themselves and more importantly the program out of hot water. I mean really!!! This was about tats!!! A good coach lost his job because these guys had to be get tats. Tress could have hung them out to dry- I wish he would have.

You can't spell chump without UM's picture

I don't think Pryor's a traitor, I still in fact like him, he was the only reason that I cheered for the Raiders last year. If I want to talk about traitors, I'd have to say Charles Woodson at #1 and Desmond Howard and Schembechler tied for #2. I mean, Woodson even has the state of Ohio tattooed on his arm and yet he still chose Michigan... And then to make things worse, he then went to Oakland in the pros, so my vote would be for Woodson as the biggest traitor. 

Brady Hoke ate my comment

+1 HS
AGAB's picture

This young man has been so unfairly maligned. Yes, he made some mistakes, but so do many college students. Those mistakes now seem small and inconsequential today. To those who still have negative feelings about TP, I ask what would OSU football have been like without him ?  His two BCS MVP trophies say it all.  As much as I love Brax, I would take TP over him anyday !! I hope that the day will soon come when TP can be embraced once again by Buckeye Nation.

+1 HS
GoBucks713's picture

3-0 against scUM and 2 BCS victories, not to mention not squealing to the NCAA? TP's sainthood is right up there with Dorothy Mantooth.

-The Aristocrats!

+1 HS
J.Mo's picture

Ray Small is the biggest traitor in Ohio State to the Ohio State program.

I haven't had time to browse /r/cfb lately - Are M*ch*g*n fans still crying about Justin Boren?.... and is water still wet?

-1 HS
FUqUespin's picture

I liked Pryor.

I liked Clarett.

It is tough to be 18/19/20 at tOSU and be the best there is in the game with the most anti-team media in all of the NCAA.  These guys bear the brunt of the media's hatred of OSU going back to Woody.  They didn't hate Reggie Bush.  They didn't say Jack Feces about Chip Stain Kelly and the $25,000 pay for play scam, ESPN let the Cam Newton deal go away.  Yet Pryor and Clarett are scorned.  Still.  They should not be.  Let it go.

Loved watching these guys play - they had to grow through it all and dig deep and forge within themselves some tough lessons and they are young men of character because of it.

Welcome them both back when they can come back and thank them for their time and what they gave us as fans, and forgive their decisions then over the passage of time.

+2 HS
Son of Sevenless's picture

Great player on the field. Poor representative of the university off the field. Didn't like him.

PoKeY21's picture

I don't know if its documented or not but I have a question for the crack research team at 11W. Is TP the only NFL player in history forced to serve a suspension in the NFL that was handed down by the NCAA?? Or is this common place under GODdell?? It's just something you don't hear much with other players. 

When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass - Robert Knight

wyatt's picture

Pryor was just traded to the Seattle Seahawks for a 7th round pick. 

Buck Commander's picture

He is not a traitor he was traded!

Every time I set my DVR to record Biggest Loser......It always records Wolverine Football Games!

+1 HS
hit_the_couch's picture

I still can't believe those kids went to Fine Line Ink. I've seen 5 year olds with more artistic talent than the staff there. 

If they're gonna get ink, that's fine, but they should be counselled and guided on how to find a good artist.

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

+2 HS
buckeyedude's picture

One of Terrelle's tattoos is an Ohio State tattoo. Traitor? Hell no.

Charles Woodson = traitor

Desmond Howard = traitor

Kyle Kalis = traitor.

Ohioans that root for TTUN = traitors.

 

 

+6 HS
Buckeye80's picture

Maybe the best comment in the group! ^^^^^^^

+1 HS
BucksFan2000's picture

I'd rank Woodson as the #1 traitor.  If he goes to OSU, I have to think we get a title.

45has2's picture

T.P. a traitor? HELL NO. As stated in the article, he could have run his mouth and he did not. He kept Omertà. Mo Clarett couldn't keep his mouth shut and I do not think of him as a traitor either. I'll go along with Buckeyedude's thought process on traitors. Spot on.

"I don't like nice people. I like tough, honest people." -W.W. Hayes

BucksFan2000's picture

Just food for thought, but I think it's fair to say we're all still waiting on Braxton to develop into a great passer.  He's good, but I don't think he scares defenses with his arm.

If you look at his stats and TP's stats, they're basically the same.  I think people are remembering TP for his stiff-arms - where he would straight embarrass people - and not remembering that he too never really developed as a passer.  The Rose Bowl seemed to be a breakout, then it never really matured from there.

I'd rather Braxton or Troy any day.

Barnsey69's picture

Pete Carroll must see something he likes, good luck to TP playing for a champion now.

Thank the Maker that I was born in Ohio, cradle of coaches, US Presidents, confederate-stomping Generals, and home of The Ohio State University Football Buckeyes!

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

I always have been and always will be a Terrelle Pryor fan!  What he did at and for the university was astounding and I was sad to see him bolt to the NFL given the amount of records he would have crushed his last year.  It has always bothered me how so many of the Buckeye Nation have blamed him for all that happened.  He was cocky as hell but he most certainly backed it up on the field!  I wish him nothing but luck with Seattle!

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

jamesrbrown322's picture

Pryor has gotten a bum rap IMO. He totally could have rolled over on the program. However, he did not. I keep hoping that he'll pan out in the NFL, but running out of time.

I am not too sure what games everyone else watched, but I felt like Pryor definitely improved as passer. He made some mistakes to be sure, but his decision making improved, and so did his touch on shorter and deep throws. The intermediate route was his real issue. And I'll grant you that he did not improve much in that area.

I am still 100% confident that without the tattoo issues, or had Tressel just suspended the guys for 2 games as soon as he found out, OSU plays for a national championship in 2011.

Playmaker

 

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

-1 HS
HawaiianBuckeye's picture

LOL at everyone who wants to say tattoogate was all Tressel's fault.  If you only knew.

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

I don't think he's a traitor, either.  Him trading his stuff for tattoos and cash was simply poor judgment in the face of a stupid NCAA rule.  What 18-22 year old hasn't exercised poor judgment at some point?  In a way, by bolting to the NFL and not talking to the NCAA, he probably saved OSU from more trouble than what they were already getting. 

I do feel he got more shit thrown his way than he deserved.  Again, he's not innocent in the whole thing.  But take away the arcane NCAA rule, and he did nothing that he or OSU could be punished for.  You might question why he would sell those things, but it would be nobody's place to tell him that he couldn't.  You might question his ego or certain things he said (the "everybody murders people" comment...still cringe at that one).  That doesn't make him a traitor or some big evil guy.  He's a kid that did and said a few dumb things.

Class of 2010.