Ohio State men's and women's basketball discussion.
"...and that's all I got to say about that"
You left out the part where he's the son of one of the all-time Buckeye greats. I still remember the first time I heard about Traevon Jackson. First thing I thought was, "Jim Jackson has a son going to college? Man, I am getting old." Then I thought, "Well, he must not be that good if Ohio State doesn't even want him. Wait, he's going to Wisconsin? Oh, this is going to end very, very poorly..."
What if Seibert would have made it. White (Iowa), Adrian Payne and Trae Jackson all wanted to be Buckeyes...everyone forgets Aaron Craft went to Tennessee 1st. This topic bothers me so much its nice to see others get involved. We are losing too many guys in our back yard that WANT to be here its pathetic. It rests with Matta but somebody else is evaluating talent for this team that shouldn't be. If it is only Matta doing evaluating, this better be a wake up call. Losing Kennard isn't the best but he didn't want to be here.
From what I've heard/read I don't think Payne really wanted to be a buckeye. I mean he was on an AAU team with sully, craft and Seibert, and I know we recruited him. I think he just wanted to go somewhere else
Being in the same class as Sully, would you want to commit to being someone's backup? People forget we had Deshaun Thomas and Jared Sullinger...would you want to compete with them for time? And from what I've heard, Jackson wanted to carve his own path and not follow his dad.
Treat every opponent as if they are capable of beating you, because guess what? They are.
Payne DID NOT want to be a Buckeye if Jared Sullnger was on the team.
Well if you're going to put it THAT way....
Yeah...I also left out where Sibert came pretty close to making it 3 in the last 2 years. :)
That's a bit different though since Sibert actually enrolled and saw time on the court at tOSU.
And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!
And while here, played well below expectations.
I guess he needed the new environment to wake him up but he still didn't show up in the last game
i aint trying to start any arguments here, but that is an untrue statement. He didn't want to follow his dad to osu and sit on the bench behind craft. He wanted to have his own path and to create his own legacy.
lets go bucks!!
I would take craft over jackson. Traevon has a plethora of 3 point shooters to distribute to along with nigel hayes and kaminski making him look good.
When craft had weapons at his disposal, this team was special to watch. Why the buckeyes didn't strongly pursue nigel hayes is a bigger issue to me
Nigel Hayes ... Also from OH.
OSU had 2 scholarships this year. Cam Williams got one, Mark Loving got the other. Loving, the #1 player from Ohio in his class, committed when he was a Sophomore. Hayes was unheard of then, More highly thought of as a football player.
...it was his dream to play for Ohio State. They never offered and didn't think he was good enough to play here. Of course when he realized and offer wasn't coming he took the best one available and said he wanted to blaze his own path etc.
lol, no, maybe it was your dream but his dream was to create his own legacy. He's a final four point guard now, so he obviously knew what he was doing.
No D, no play for Matta.
Great point TP - you got to bring it on both ends if you're gonna play for Thad.
He never wanted to play for OSU, he wanted to play ANYWHERE but OSU...
You are right and that is unfortunate, but there's no way to predict the future. There is so much nuance with college recruiting, especially in basketball. After the "sure things," there are too many unknowns. No one in the country thought Trey Burke was going to be as good as he turned out. This year was a let-down for sure, but no elite team is immune to let-downs. Not UNC, not UK, not Duke.
I know that recruiting is far from an exact science, but Burke was Mr. Basketball in Ohio in 2011 and he played in Ohio State's backyard along with Sullinger. Our coaches had plenty of opportunities to get an in depth evaluation on Burke as he was rising during his junior and senior years in high school. I don't get how our coaches could not see his potential.
And Traevon Jackson...from what I recall, we just never offered him. Not late, not ever. And Nigel Hayes, we offered late. Our best starting five in recent memory was Diebler, Craft, Sullinger, Buford, and Lighty -- all Ohio kids who were playing with a purpose. I'm not at all suggesting that we should never branch out, but recruiting from our own state is where The Ohio State University tradition lies. I, like many others, hope we do not stray away from this. Coach Matta and Coach Meyer, sign those Ohio boys up!!!
He told matta sophmore year he wasn't coming to OSU, it was never going to happen.
You obviously followed his recruitment more than me and you make excellent points. If it was that simple, that's a pretty big miss by our coaches. I do know especially with basketball, teams like Dayton can make the Elite 8. Schools that shouldn't be there make it and it goes to show that simply stars in a recruiting evaluation cannot predict future success. Your points are excellent and i am not debating those, but rather how teams with guys who are suppose to be nothing end up being quite good without parade all-Americans. I think basketball recruiting is the hardest because one miss and the team can be drastically less than what it was hoped by the coaches. Sullinger was a huge success for us, but look at Amir, he's not good. And we needed a better inside presence and never had a consistent outside scoring threat. Now I support Matta and I think he's a great coach, but this team certainly was not what he thought it would be prior to the season.
Hahahah yah guys remember that time we offered Shannon Scott and not trey Burke? Wow.
Your hindsight is impressive.
Class of 2008
Jarred Sullinger, THE best post player in the country in his class played with both Burke and Craft. Sullinger wanted Craft to be his PG, Craft always was looking to pass it into Sully, Burke preferred shooting over assisting Sullinger.
It's true that Thad Matta never showed interest in him but at the same time even if he did, who knows if he would have still even considered the Buckeyes. But I guess if we are being literal, Matta never showed any interest in Jackson so we let a guy get away that's the starting PG on a final four team but we don't know if he even wanted to be in Columbus. So the title is only half right.
"I've had smarter people around me all my life, but I haven't run into one yet that can outwork me. And if they can't outwork you, then smarts aren't going to do them much good." - Woody Hayes
I said it before and I'll say it again Matta's starting to remind me of John Cooper.. He missed on Burke, Jackson, Levert, Payne and the kid at Wisky.. Cooper missed on Woodson, Howard, Ennis, Grbac and Carter.. They both won a bunch of games but weren't the best tacticians. Both had alot of assistants go on to bigger and better things and both sent alot of guys to the pro's.. It's uncanny..
You forgot to mention that Cooper got guys like Eddie George, Orlando Pace, Shawn Springs, David Boston, Terry Glenn, etc
and Thad got Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Evan Turner, Jared Sullinger, Jon Diebler, Aaron Craft, etc.
Unfortunately you can't get em all regardless of where they're from but as fans we can enjoy the ones we've got
I was going to say the same thing. I'll add one thing, just because a kid is from Ohio doesn't mean they want to play for Ohio State.
The juice is worth the squeeze
Matta did not "miss" on any of those players, Sullinger wanted Craft, not burke to be his PG. Jackson wasn't going to sit behind Craft and Scott AND no good recruiter takes 3 PGs in 2 years. LeVert? He was only 2nd team All-Ohio when he was a Senior, He was a 3 Star and 2 Star. He was all of 6-4 175. He had committed to Ohio U. when Groce was head coach. Groce went to Illinois and didn't think LeVert was good enough for Illinois.Payne DID NOT want to play for Ohio State and sit behind Sullinger. If Sullinger didn't go to Ohio State THEN and ONLY then was Payne going to Ohio State.
Went to Westerville South with Trae, he was never going to be a buckeye...because he did not want to be. He wanted to make his own path in life and not constantly be compared to his father. Stir in the fact his relationship with is dad is not the greatest due to numerous reasons, and it was never happening. Trae is an amazing person, he works hard at everything he does and is one of the most humble human beings I have ever met. He is a winner in every aspect of life.
Thanks for the insight. Did some digging, and read that Jimmy and his son had a late start in building their relationship, and Traevon has always been his own man. Good read: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2011/01/28/jackson-works-hard-to-make-his-own-name.html I still wish we would have at least offered, though. Never know til you try.
Some of you want to rewrite history... He (Jackson) never said he didn't want to come to OSU until people were asking him about not getting an offer (his best offers after Wiscy, were Arizona St and Dayton)...Thad, like most other coaches at big D1 programs didn't see him or Trey Burke developing into high level guys.
Not mad at Thad...he did a lot right. This past year could've been Sully, Craft, DeShaun, and Q...he's brought in the talent. Just not having your McDonalds All-American bigs develop along with no outside shooters stepping up, really limited the potential for this team.
if Bo Ryan or John Belein get a ncaa title before Matta and the Buckeyes it will make me sick. Especially after the one shot we had against florida and the crappy year the committee decided to put Kentucky in our bracket when we were the #1 overall seed
Its recruiting and unless you are the Duke's of the basketball world, its rare these misses are that noticeable as you tend to have a stockpile of excellent players in your arsenal anyways. It is annoying that players like Scott and Amir, after some time in the program, appear to have no developed at all. Is the coaching or is that recruiting? Not sure, but who is to say had these 'misses' come to OSU, that they would have been as impactful as they are showing? Lets just hope this incoming class/transfer and the freshmen we had this past year are ready to take over because I am highly doubtful that Scott will be the PG we need, and Amir will figure out how to play basketball.
Hindsight is 20-20. It's crazy to think about how different things would have been had Pearl not gotten in trouble at UT. Still, I don't think we got a raw deal at all. Thad has had plenty of 3 star guys that have turned out to be solid contributors. As can be seen with the current junior class, he's not a perfect evaluator of talent. With the guys he has coming in next year and the start he is off to for 2015, hopefully Thad is back on track.
When I was 13, I really hurt the feelings of my best friend, a girl who lived on my road and I'd been friends with since kindergarten. She never forgave me and unfortunately we didn't stay friends. She was kind of an ugly duckling who turned out to be the hottest girl in my school as a senior. Hindsight is 20-20 and for many reasons, I wish I could tell my 13 year old self not to be an ass that day, but I can't. We live with the hands we're dealt and the decisions we make and can never look back.
Ah, the one that got away..
So what is the consistent factor of the two teams in the Final Four so far. Many analysts considered these guys 2nd tier players. But they excel in the system they are in, play as a team and have all hung around 3-4 years in their programs. Not many early NBA entry guys.
The "sticking around" part is the most consistent part. They excelled because they stayed to learn the system, were patient for playing time and had the team mentality.. This is what earns championships, or the opportunities for them.
And here I thought this thread was going to be about Caris LeVert...
Did Julius Randle want to be a Buckeye?
Next year is going to be a telling year in basketball...Matta is a good coach but he is stubborn to point. He has one of his best(2nd) classes coming in next year.Next year we could range from making the NIT to the Final 4. Watch very closely what Belien and Izzo and Ryan do also. I do not think tOSU will be satisfied finishing 4th every season. They also will not be happy watching passed on homegrown talent go to rival universities and flourish. Next year will be monumental in the trajectory of tOSU basketball.
I speak the truth but I guess that's a foreign language to yall.~~Lil Wayne
I'm more upset about nigel HAyes. Dude is a man in the paint
stark county football
Last year you knew Hayes was going to have a better FRESHMAN year than Loving??? Why in the hell didn't you tell us THEN?
So much of this debate centers around the notion that incoming freshman trying to decide on a school cannot account for which players will leave early and schools don't know what players will become. Nobody was complaining when we got Shannon Scott, he was a great talent, he may be a world beater next year. Amir was a high school AA just like Scott. If every team in the country would have whiffed on the same player (and I don't think Amir is anywhere near the lost cause everyone else thinks he is, he just needs a ping pong paddle to hand transplant) then how can Matta be held accountable for that. Throw in your Adreian Paynes and Trae Jacksons (guys I'm pretty sure never would have been Buckeyes anyways) and it's obvious that recruiting is such an inexact science. Maybe Fred Taylor should've recruited Oscar Robertson harder. Maybe we should've recruited Gordon Hayward or Norris Cole or Russ Smith or whomever.
You hope for the best prepare for the worst. But mainly you have to get a little lucky sometime. Do you guys really think Thad and Urban won't bring us a NC in the next five years? Haven't we been just a good bounce or two away the last few years (what if Noah and Horford leave a year early and Oden Conley doesn't have to play them, what if West Virginia doesn't lose to woeful Pitt in 07 and we face them instead of LSU for the NC, or Turner or Sullinger comes back one more year et al.)
Yeah, I still can't believe we miss on Robertson. And c'mon, shouldn't the coaches have convinced LeBron that the NBA wasn't for him?
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill
How did we miss on LeBron? Right out of Akron and then he commits to play for another in state team, Cleveland. SHAMEFUL
And OSU has been to the Final Four under Thad as much as Wisconsin and TTUN have been combined over the same period, so...
Class of 2010.
We had a flawed team this year, some you guys need to step away from the cliff if we replaced jackson with craft we would be worse jackson have a better cast around him
Actually 3rd year in a row. Aaron Craft wanted to be a Buckeye ... And was in 2012.
I'm pretty sure Frank Kaminsky going for 28pts, and 11reb had more to do with it.. :/
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
Look, basketball recruiting is very different from football recruiting. You cannot cast out as large a net and hope you get the fish you want. Thad has to pick and choose who to offer, given the current roster and skill sets of his current players. It is easy to talk about OSU "missing" on other PGs, but you have to stop and analyze who was on the roster and who committed to OSU prior to the discussed recruit, as well as future recruits whom they had a chance to land. I still would take Craft, and given their games coming out of HS, Scott, over Jackson.
Also, it is about systems. Perhaps Jackson was a bad fit. Or perhaps, just like Payne, Jackson really didn't want to come here anyway, so why waste time and resources that you need to drill down on recruits that have interest, and fit OSU's needs.
BTW, I guarantee there are starters on each team, from other states, that may or may not have had interests on our of state schools. They could easily be the topic of a similar post on a different school's blog.
There are reasons to indict Matta and the coaching staff, but recruiting is certainly not one of them. They get phenomenal recruits who are consistently better than 95% of the country. What happens after that, we may question. But he is unquestionably one of the 10 best recruiters in the nation.
Missing AC already.