PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
NCAA. IS. A. JOKE.
If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target
The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009
Wow. Just wow. Academic fraud is a middle-of-the-road offense it seems.
Freaking wow. Academic fraud = 6 schollies worse than memorabilia for tattoos/cash (I think all else was the same, right?). OK NCAA.
Class of 2010.
well, we really got in trouble for lying to the NCAA about our knowledge of that situation. Punishment would have been much less if we would have self reported what was happening early on...just my opinion though
Still, academic fraud is only 6 schollies worse than kids selling their own stuff for ink? Even given that we lied about it and they told the truth...I don't know...I don't even think the NCAA knows.
TOSU DID self report the violations.
i said self report early on..read what i said. Tressel covered the whole thing up instead of reporting it. so what would have probably been a game or 2 suspension for each player, we have a post season ban and loss of scholarships.
@coronas- i read what you said, inaccuracies and all. Reading the ncaa transcripts will help you look before you leap.
He wasn't being innacurate. You just misinterpreted it. Tressel withheld information and chose not to report violations to his higher ups. Yes, Ohio State did eventually self-report the tattoo scandal, but it was revealed that months before Ohio State ever self-reported violations, Tressel knew about them and played ineligable players. Yes, Ohio State did self-report Tressel's violations when they were revealed, but as the head of the football program Tressel holds the biggest responsibility here and is the biggest part in keeping INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL. Ohio State SKATED here by not getting lack of instutional control. With how Gene Smith handled reprimanding Tressel and the entire seperate booster scandal that followed months later, this had LOIC written all over it, and from an objective standpoint we probably should have recieved an LOIC. Count your blessings and stop whining about the NCAA's punishment.
October 20th: National Kenneth Guiton Day
You are 100% wrong--the AD, not the head football coach, holds the biggest responsibility for institutional control. The NCAA report, and your own comment, support that Tressel was acting OUTSIDE of the policies of the institution- and that the institution reported the individual once his actions were discovered.
If you are a Buckeye fan, and really believe your contention [which is, I don't want to say ignorant, so I will say uninformed] that tOSU "SKATED here by not getting lack of institutional control", wouldn't you be saying "Count OUR blessings" as opposed to "Count YOUR blessings"?
I simply disagree. As the head football coach Tressel held the biggest responsibility for the football program. The AD, Gene Smith, has broader responsiblities overseeing the entire athletic department. Look no further than USC's LOIC. Carroll was the one that got them an LOIC charge by harboring a violation and potential violation cest pool. Do you really think Mike Garrett got USC that LOIC? No. Yes, Garrett is an idiot much like Gene Smith is, but Carroll is the one held completely responsible. Which is why I'm surprised and think we got incredibly lucky with Tressel. We were lucky to have a good enough man in Tressel to completely fall on the sword for the football program.
As for the last part of your comment, get out of here with that bullshit, man. You want to get technical? Fine. I said count YOUR (excluding me) blessings because I have already counted mine, thus I would have no reason to include myself with those who still need to "count their blessings." Don't question my fan hood. I don't appreciate that. Call me ignorant, call me unimformed, mock me, I don't care, but don't question my fan hood. Especially over a fucking technicality. I'm sorry I don't live through my fan hood thinking everything is a conspiracy against me. Sports is a whole lot less bitter, and more enjoyable, when you realize that not everybody is on a mission to tear down OUR (happy? I said "our," can I be considered a fan now!?!?!?!) team down.
@ Jake- after you read tOSU's transcripts, read USC's too.
I am completely informed on both situations. We are just at a disagreement. Simple as that. Read my other response to you below.
Def dont want to be in on this argument, but just wanted to make one point. The reason USC got LOIC was because it was across multiple sports. They also had violations with OJ Mayo and the basketball team at the same time. Not on either side here!
We could have understood that you bleed scarlet without the language, bro. I understand how it's easy to say something like "Count your blessings" when you're ranting, but it quite easily could be taken in a different way than you attended. No need to thank me for pointing out this linguistic oversight, thus giving you an opportunity to firmly clarify your Buckeye allegiance.
I'm a believer that we should all count our blessings at least once a day, regardless of what they might be. I'm glad you brought that up.
Here's a hint, just because someone doesn't agree that tOSU got screwed, that doesn't make them a troll. And to correct someone over the use of the word "our"? Except for a lucky few members of this site that were fortunate enough to actually suit up in Scarlet and Grey, none of us should say "our" if you want to get technical.
First, I did not correct anyone. I asked a QUESTION about the particular usage of "your" v "our" and am thankful that original poster clarified the oversight.
Nobody should say our unless they were a player?? Not even if you went to school there? REALLY? IF you are a tOSU alum, you don't have a right to say that's our campus? that's our football stadium? that's our football team? that's our coach? What about if you were born in Ohio? When Urban says, "We want to make the great state of Ohio proud"-- should we respond with" Why would you do that, Urban? It's not OUR team." I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
Is that ban for 2012 or 2013?
Edit, nevermind, read 2012
Favorite Buckeye: Obviously BJ Mullens
I think once again the NCAA shows what a JOKE it is. I hope that the Universities come to their senses and pull out of the NCAA and start their own regulatory body! I think each conference should have it's own over sight. I mean if we are going to make up "punishment" as we go a long, why punish anyone?
We'll see if Miami ends up going to Chinatown
Now players can leave w/o losing eligibility right? If so, could this spark the Gio Bernard transfer rumors?
Good call on that.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I THINK that loophole only applies to players with senior eligibility. They would be eligible to leave without having to sit out a year. For all others, the same eligibility rules would apply.
I am not even sure if this is a steadfast rule for the seniors, though, either. It happened in the USC case, but that was a multiple year bowl ban.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
You are right I believe. It only applies if you can't go to a bowl before you lose eligibility.
Don't give up... Don't ever give up.
I think some (if not most) of you blindy say the NCAA sucks just because its the cool thing to say nowadays. I think the NCAA was sufficient in their handlings of ours and North Carolina's football programs. You could even say both got off pretty damn lightly. Yes, the NCAA has some major issues at its core that need to be fixed, but I don't think that's been reflected in the cases of the aforementioned football programs.
On another note, I hate when I see fellow fans on here complain about "getting screwed" by the NCAA. We didn't get screwed, so stop complaining. We got off lightly. I'm sorry you were suckered into Gene Smith's non-stop bullshit about "being confident there won't be/shouldn't be any more punishment."
Agreed. The conspiracy theory rant is so worn out.
Wrong. People who get paid to advise universities concerning NCAA investigations almost uniformly said the punishment was inconsistent with precedent - overly harsh.
I say the NCAA is a corrupt organization that has long since outlived its usefulness, and no one would confuse me for someone who is, or is trying to be, cool.
The NCAA cannot be fixed, but it can be left behind.
Perhaps it may have been overly harsh based on what the NCAA charged us with ("failure to monitor") according to statistics, but we should have been under lack of institutional control all along. The NCAA completely let us off of the hook. Sorry, and let me preface what I'm about to say with how much I love Saint Tressel, but when the head of your football program withholds information that would make star players ineligable, does nothing (publicly) to reprimand them, and then says nothing about his previous knowledge of the situation months later when the violations of the players are revealed through a federal investigation, that's pretty damn bad. That's not even the worst part. THEN, after Tressel's violations were revelaed in March through a bumblefuck of a press conference, he recieves a joke of a punishment, then an extension of said punishment but still a joke, and then finally MONTHS LATER our completely inept and out of control (hint: lack of institutional control) AD Mr. Gene Smith finally realizes that this program wouldn't have been able to continue with Tressel at the helm. Not to mention an ENTIRELY SEPERATE BOBBY DIGERONIMO SCANDAL ONLY A FEW MONTHS AFTER THE TRESSEL FIRING. That, my Buckeye friend, is a case of lack of institutional control at its worst. So I say we all collectively stop bitching, take our dose, and be happy that we recieved minimal punishment when you take a look at it from an objective perspective. Not to mention that we have the best coach in college football to deal with these sanctions.
@ Jake- I say that you should stop telling people how to feel! I also think that before you rant, that you check actual facts before you tell everyone how they should feel. I doubt you are an expert on the NCAA.
Every fact I presented in that rant has been publicly admitted by Gordan Gee, Gene Smith, Jim Tressel, and Ohio State.
"That, my Buckeye friend, is a case of lack of institutional control at its worst. " IM DYING-- LMAO
Here I thought it was only LOIC at it's medium level! Ahh it was the worst kind of LOIC? S***, wish I had known--- I'd have gotten out the popcorn; I love the WORST kind of LOIC. I thought somethings like USC might have been the worst, you know, when they didn't self-report and multiple people lied to NCAA-- but thanks for showing me that tOSU is THE worst.
You do realize JakeBuckeye that it's pretty contradictory to say "I'm looking at this in an objective way.... [emphasize words with CAPS]...../rant", right?
Speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way
A spell of ranting; a tirade.
I'm glad you got a good laugh today. I'm a believer that we should all laugh at least once a day, regardless of what we laugh at.
As for the rest of your comment; it was (unfortunately) entirely based on minor technicalities taking my hyperbolic words 100% serious. I assume that when someone tells you they are "so hungry they could eat an entire cow," you truly believe that they will eat said entire cow later, just like when I say our situation our situation was "LOIC at its worst" it LITTERALLY MEANS THE WORST CASE OF LOIC IN THE HISTORY OF ATHLETICS.
Oh, and since when are rants not allowed to be objective? This is news to me. But points for hitting up the dictionary on google, bro!
@ Jake- There are many inaccuracies in what you are certain are fact.
Tressel's violations were not revealed in March. In fact, they were reported in January. When they are revealed to the press does not mean anything other than a lack of research.
What is it that you believe Tressel knew, and hid, from the ncaa? Did you read what Tress said he knew in the NCAA transcripts that are easily available online? I would suggest reading them instead of assuming before you tell others what are facts.
Have you ever read the actual description of LOIC that is available on the NCAA website before you asserted your expertise? Reading, and understanding, will go a long way in qualifying your legitimacy as an authority on NCAA practices.
Lastly, telling people how they should feel is not acceptable. People are entitled to feel the way they want, even if you disagree with them.
Tressel's violations were revealed to the public in March. That was the meaning of my words when I said "Tressel's violations were revealed in March," hah. The revealing to the public rushed the press conference and the punishment of Tressel. As for the rest, and the other response to me you posted above, I am informed and have read everything you've said, we are just at a disagreement.
I do appreciate you though, Biggy. You handle disagreement well, and I at least felt some amount of respectfullness in your comments. I don't like having my fan hood questioned just because I disagree with somebody or over a technicality, as that Louie guy did to me.
Go Bucks! All the way in the 2012 NCAA tournament! O-H!
The bottom line is this - the NCAA needs to set ironclad standards. They need to be consistent and fair on administering punishments and gearing their punishments to the infractions committed. We should be able to know that if a program breaks rule A, they will get punishment A, and if they break rules D, F, and J, then they get punishment D + F + J. And the same crime results in the same punishment regardless of the school.
When OSU has players selling their own stuff for tattoos/cash, receiving money for a charity event appearance, and receiving money for work not performed, and UNC has players involved in academic fraud and receiving benefits totalling in $27,000 (OSU players' total from all infraction I believe stays in 4 figures), the difference in punishments between OSU and UNC should be more than 6 scholarships. Yeah, our PR handling of our stuff throughout was bad, but the last time I checked, bad PR is not an NCAA violation.
Nice of them to wait until after signing day.
I really think the Penn State situation is the definition of failure to monitor and lack of institutional control. A cover-up from the top down...including by the coaches, via cowardly inaction. I think they deserve a very severe punishment. I don't say this because I'm an OSU fan, and I do think it's bad for college football and the Big Ten, in particular - (to have a traditional power be severely punished) --- but they deserve it.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
Academic fraud should be punished more severely than just about anything else IMHO.
I would agree to that- the NCAA's recent does a poor job emphasizing how important the student in "student-athlete" should be.
The NCAA is wildly inconsistent in the penalties it lays down. That's just how it is.
Many schools, if not all, willingly violate the rules to gain a competitive advantage. That's just how it is.
Many of the rules are aribitrary and silly. That's just how it is.
I don't care. I root for OSU. I can't do anything about the mess that is the NCAA and its rule system. The UNC penalties in comparison to OSU, USC, Oregon, and Auburn (penalties?) are just one more example of a long chain of NCAA wackiness.
Whatever. Go BUCKS!
The NCAA has proven before that they are not consistent with their sanctions. Yes, that is just the way it is. Their arbitrary way of dealing with violators is comical at times. It used to bother me, but I have grown numb to their ways. However, what I do find amusing is how the media views all of this. When the sanctions were handed down to OSU there seemed to be no end to the "Ohio State got off easy" posts by the national media. Now, there seems to be very little reaction to the sanctions handed to UNC.
What I do know is that you can not have it both ways. If you believe that the sanctions for OSU were too light, then you have to apply the same reasoning to UNC - these sanctions are too light as well. But, there is no huge outcry here. Their violations were more numerous and more severe. And, we are talking about academic fraud - as Maestro stated, that should be among the most grievous of offenses. Yet, no outcry from our esteemed media. Just business as usual.
I am not a conspiracy theorist. However, the treatment OSU gets from the national press is often laughable. Maybe it is the ultimate compliment for OSU that they get soooo much attention on any little thing. But, it sure does get weary.
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