Boise Handles the Bulldogs

September 3, 2011 at 11:48p    by Johnny Ginter    
48 Comments

Comments

TLB's picture

still not drinking the Boise Blue Kool-aid.  They were favored in this game and at 19, it could be that Georgia was riding SEC coat-tails because they were not good.

Brady's picture

I am not sure what to think about Boise St. now.  Usually they win by going all trick play on everybody but for the most part they just lined up and hit Georgia right in the mouth.  It would be nice if they had a couple more games against legite competition to see what they could do instead of coasting to a double digit win total against inferior talent.

 
 

Johnny Ginter's picture

georgia isn't a very good team, but BSU has some kind of higher level ninja offense and honestly i hope they end up in the NC game and beat the living hell out of another SEC team. the entire BCS system is predicated on the idea that certain teams and conferences will be great forever while others will suck forever and i would love for boise to blow that up

NC_Buckeye's picture

As a fan of team/conference "great forever" (which I might remind you includes our team), I agree with Delany. We've been working for 100+ years to get cfb to the point where it is today. Boise and the other MWC teams have been in the picture for 20 years (maybe 30 if you include BYU). Fill your stadiums with 100,000+ every week for 12 weeks, then do it for 50-60 years. How about just getting at least a million viewers per game for the next ten years, then maybe we can talk about the inequality of the system.

This will all be moot as soon as OU, Okie State, TTech, and TU (????) join the PAC and form the first superconference. We'll have the superconference superplayoff and that will put an end to these interlopers.

NC_Buckeye's picture

Better yet. Let's start paying players and see how long the MWC interlopers can hang with the "great forever" teams/conferences at that point. They won't have the resources to even be in the picture.

Johnny Ginter's picture

lol i have no idea why you're so threatened by boise and schools like boise

the current system was created under the pretense that it would reward the "best" team in a given season, which was a false promise that made about as much sense as when it was created as it does now.

the broncos could draw 100 fans to their games, much less 100k, it doesn't matter to me. if they're good they deserve a shot at a championship without some whiny blueblood BS that excludes teams because their history doesn't match up to whatever lame arbitrary standards that we think matter somehow (it's pretty funny that if indiana somehow became an annual 10 win team, they'd be seen as more legit than BSU just by virtue of being in the big ten)

seriously, if i thought games that were played before my parents were born have any bearing on college football now, i'd probably just give up on myself and become a notre dame or michigan fan.

NC_Buckeye's picture

OK, hindsight. My response was a totally knee-jerk reaction.

But... you can't deny that history and tradition play a part in this high art that occurs every Saturday in the fall. It's as much a part of the fan's involvement as the actual games. I mean seriously would any of us give a shit about Hoke if it weren't for the century of games played before him. You might not think that the 1947 Michigan game has any bearing on us today (Wes Fesler's Buckeyes were shut-out by Fritz Crisler's Wolverines by a score of 21-0... thanks Wikipedia). But I guarantee that some santimonious, asshole Michigan alums tortured our forebears with their version of the Ohio-State-pizza-boy joke as a result of that game. Their resulting hate got passed down from father to son, mother to daughter. To us. It's why the Tressel era was so delicious and the Cooper era so miserable.

Boise's program didn't move up to Division I-A (now FBS) until 2001. They've had two very good coaches (Hawkins and Petersen) that made them very competitive in the WAC and their bowl games. (I still think that if you take Boise and put them in a better conference, they become a middle-tier team very quickly. Hawkins is exhibit A. Utah will soon be exhibit B.)

It's getting late so I'll just end by saying again that it looks like the current system will soon end and a new one will start. And it's likely that Boise and the other MWC teams won't be a part of that system either.

Seth4Bucks's picture

Yes tradition plays a part in CFB and I'm very proud of the traditions that encompass and surround Buckeye football. But tradition won't help you win ball games. USF a team with even less tradition than BSU beat one of the the bluest of the bluebloods in Notre Dame. Hate ND all you want, and I do, but there's no denying that they have a lot of tradition. But that hasn't helped them out recently. Princeton, Yale, Chicago, etc have all gone the way of the buffalo despite their tradition. Minnie used to be a player in the national title picture back before most of us were born and where are they today?

To deny a program simply on pedigree seems ludicrous to me. Teams like BSU, Utah, TCU, etc have consistently passed any of the tests placed before them. BSU alone has beaten Oregon (several times),  Georgia, Utah, VT, Oregon State, and TCU over the past several seasons. Place them in a BCS conference and I doubt they run the table. But they won't slip down to mid-tier level either. They'll win games and have as good of a shot as anyone not named Michigan in taking a conference title.

The BCS conferences will always be given the benefit of the doubt when you're talking about whether to send a mid-major and BCS conference team with similar records to the NCG. And rightly so because they play a tougher schedule. But my vote will be on a zero loss BSU, TCU, etc vs a 1-2 team from one of the blue blood conferences. As long as it's not a case of Hawaii a couple years ago getting into a BCS game with no big wins.

NC_Buckeye's picture

Minnesota's fall from the elite realm corresponds to the creation of the Vikings. College teams in cities with successful pro teams almost never get any following. And is a huge reason why Delany needs to give up on expanding into the NY/NJ area.

BTW, I think Hoody brings up a good point about the media infatuation with underdogs. Delany and Slive are very smart guys. I think 1984 was very much on their minds while creating the BCS.

Seth and Johnny, do either of you believe that BYU deserved to be crowned National Champions in 1984 by beating an unranked 6-5 Michigan squad in the Holiday Bowl. I imagine the fans of Washington #2, Florida #3/7, and Nebraska #4/3 might have something to say about that. A look at BYU's schedule has their only signature victory in the first game of the season against a #3/7 Pittsburgh Panthers squad who were then exposed as a mediocre by going 3-7-1 and finishing unranked.

What strikes me now is that this has become Boise's formula as well. Beat a school with credentials early then rely on that to propel you thru the rankings the rest of the season.

Johnny Ginter's picture

i don't think you really get my argument. i love history more than anyone (my real life job is a social studies teacher), but there's no reason to exclude Boise from anything just because they largely lack one. they've proven over and over and over that they can run with the "big boys" and at this point if you can't recognize that it's an elite tier program you pretty much have your head in the sand.

also i don't really know how a guy coaching another team in another conference with completely different players is exhibit a of anything, and your exhibit b hasn't even happened yet.

anyway, i think i'll just leave it with what matt hinton had to say about boise:

That doesn't mean [Boise] has some kind of golden ticket to 12-0 (the Broncos still have to play the games, some of them — Nevada, Air Force, TCU, at San Diego State — more than a little prickly), much less the culmination of a system that only allows two teams inside the gates of its self-appointed championship game. If Boise State doesn't deserve to be one of those two, that's first and foremost an indictment of a system that can't handle every worthy contender. Whether the Broncos ever get or deserve a shot under the current, two-team championship structure, they've proven worthy (again) of the discussion between the lines. Hate their schedule, hate their nouveau riche hype. But it is increasingly impossible to hate their game.

Hoody Wayes's picture

Or, this is a sports writer defending his rep, amid growing criticism.

Brady's picture

I just hate the blue turf.  That shit needs to be outlawed.  I seriously get a headache when trying to watch a game in Boise.  They do deserve a shot at the title if for no other reason than to take the first step at eliminating the BCS.  Viva Playoffs!!!

 
 

Bucks's picture

Personally, I'm amazed they made the conference move w/o ensuring they could keep it. The field can be a pain but since I hardly watch them, doesn't affect me!

 

Unless something changed, their new conference said they had to get rid of it?

Brady's picture

I didn't know they were in danger of losing it.  Shows how much I know.  I think it is rediculous that they can have that turf and wear their all-blue jerseys that match the field.  There has to be some sorf of competetive advantage gained from that right?

 
 

Bucks's picture

Don't hold me to it b/c I can't find anything on it with a quick search, but could have sworn I remember the conference saying they had to get rid of it recently. Maybe I was smoking my tennis shoes.

Hoody Wayes's picture

Johnny, somebody is trying to make Boise State the 21st century's equivalent of Notre Dame.

Again, ESPN comes to mind. Curiously and currently, ESPN's "Grantland" website - it seems to me - Is ESPN's somewhat tacit admission, that it's trying to repeat history.

Grantland Rice - ostensibly - elected Notre Dame to the papacy of college football, back in 1924, with his "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" write-up.

Johnny, you seem to be using Boise State in arguing "out with the old and in with the new."

But, Boise State ain't really nuthin' new.

Johnny, you're sounding very old-fashioned.

Hoody Wayes's picture

Johnny, football fans who don't like Boise State see them as a media fabrication, given an inordinate amount of exposure and praise by ESPN (probably spurred by Disney's quest to make a feel-good sports flick) and too many news agencies and journalists desperate to scoop the next big thing, in college football. Every Boise victory over a traditional power is blunted by the fact that, each of these wins precedes or proceeds, one of the weakest regular season schedules, in college football.  

So, fans who hate Boise see them as unfairly advantaged.

The next big thing in college football - the super conference - exposes Boise State as anything but "worthy."  What conference will extend them an invitation? Their market share is minimal. Bronco Stadium will be expanded, but only to a cap of 55K. That's not a big house. Boise will need to offer more than its blue turf, to induce the likes of the Buckeyes, to play there.

Johnny Ginter's picture

yeah but how many wins over traditional powers do these guys need to pile up to prove themselves? anyone who watches them play can see that this isn't a team beating other inferior teams solely through trickery and coaching. it's a really, really good team. period.

Hoody Wayes's picture

If Boise were in the SEC, Boise would not play for the SEC Championship.

Johnny Ginter's picture

if Ohio State were in the SEC we wouldn't play for the SEC championship either, but if OSU runs the table i kind of doubt any of us would be talking about how we aren't really worthy of playing in the NC game

Hoody Wayes's picture

Perhaps, you should imagine the 2011 Ohio State football team being one of three undefeated teams - including an SEC team and Boise State - at the end of the year.

I would be a very uncomfortable Buckeye fan, at that moment.

Johnny Ginter's picture

sure, but you'd be uncomfortable because of OSU's losses coloring how people think of the program. boise fans would be uncomfortable because of their wins coloring how people think of the program. that's what's so stupid about all of this.

NC_Buckeye's picture

Boise State could go the BYU, Notre Dame independent-route (at least until superconferences happen). Schedule a bunch of schools that would basically be the equivalent of a tough conference. I don't think that's even on Boise's radar though due to limited resources (and good luck getting teams to come play on the smurf turf). They would have to do some pretty elaborate deals to make that happen.

Petersen is a good coach. He ran roughshod thru the WAC and now looks to do the same thru the MWC. He's great at recruiting. Has a phenomenal ability to get his team ready for their two team schedule (their annual non-conference game against a BCS school and their bowl game).

Would he be able to survive the weekly grind of a BCS conference? We'll never know. He won't entertain offers from other schools. Hawkins didn't though. And Petersen, it appears, is willing to wait and see if ESPiN and politicians can get the Broncos a special seat at the big-boy table.

Can anyone in this thread speak as to Boise's ability to get players to the next level? How have they done in the NFL? I ask because Petersen's recruiting abilities have always been somewhat of a mystery to me.

741's picture

Chris Peterson can recruit.

Hoody Wayes's picture

Ultimately, all this debate is about one question: should the press have a part to play in the crowning of a college football champion?

To me, the notion the press still does, is well beyond its expiration date.

Take the press out of the equation and Boise State's path to a championship is much more difficult.

If, today, what happened on the field determined the college football champ, Boise State wouldn't be on top.

Johnny Ginter's picture

haha why?!? because of their 61-5 record in the last five full seasons? yeah they're terrible.

Hoody Wayes's picture

Boise State's not terrible. They're undeserving of their acclaim, due to the inequity of their regular season schedule.

In 2010, Boise lost to Nevada. Ohio State lost to Wisconsin. Ohio State - by virtue of a tougher regular season - earned a much better berth. There. There's an example of fairness prevailing.

Johnny Ginter's picture

how? fairness would be giving both teams an equal shot at a championship and not base their postseason games off of one loss that happened literally months before the end of the season. it's just an arbitrary subjective comparison of relative conference strength

Hoody Wayes's picture

Well, maybe we agree. I mean, who makes this arbitrary, at all? The press.

Johnny Ginter's picture

sure, but again, i've got eyes. boise state is a really, really good team by any measure. like hinton said, hate on their schedule or their hype all you want, but at this point if you can't acknowledge that the boise state is worthy of being called a great program, you either are being willfully ignorant or haven't actually watched them play

Hoody Wayes's picture

Allow me to use your argument against you: what do your eyes tell you about the B1G vs. The MWAC, Johnny?

Johnny Ginter's picture

who cares? i'm taking about boise state, not the MWC. the MWC is crap. boise state is not. did you even watch them play last night?

Hoody Wayes's picture

Yes, I watched them beat GA, last night.

Again, if it's own conference is crappy, how can we take Boise, seriously?

Hoody Wayes's picture

Boise is a great program and unworthy of playing for a national championship.

Hoody Wayes's picture

I have followed Boise, since the 2007 Fiesta Bowl.

Ask yourself, Johnny: Why don't Boise State and TCU step up and lobby the Dan Beebe for admission to the Big XII? Why doesn't Boise call Mike Slive, right now. The SEC needs one more team, right?

Johnny Ginter's picture

look, i don't think we're gonna get anywhere with this. i don't think you actually watched the game last night and you seem way more interested in talking about boise state the idea than boise state the 2011 college football team.

i get your point, but to me the only thing that matters is how good the team is. if last night is any indication, boise is very, very good.

Hoody Wayes's picture

Again, I watched Boise beat GA, last night. Trade schedules between Ohio State and Boise, Ohio State goes undefeated and Boise St. does not.

poop's picture

Boise is somewhere between as overrated as fans think and as awesome as the media thinks. They have excellent coaches and solid football players. Not an NC caliber team imo but not a basement dweller anymore. They can beat a decent number of the "big boys" on their best days. The problem is, when they average a brazillion points per game against conference opponents, it tells me the conference is pretty bad. Much like Oregon, they don't have to face a decent-good defense each week like SEC, Big12(?) and Big Ten teams do. Sucks for them but it's not anyone else's fault either.

Nick's picture

I will say Boise State is a great team with a great coach. Whether or not they are a great program is to be determined. They have a lot of work to do academically and have to continue to have winning seasons.

741's picture

Boise State joining the PAC-12 when it expands to 16 teams ends this theoretical debate. I think they deserve to be elevated to that level as much as Utah did if not more.

Hoody Wayes's picture

The news refutes your opinion. Indications are the PAC wants TX, TTECH, OK and OSU. Unless the super-conference structure expands to 20 teams, Boise's not going to the PAC, nor any other major conference.

741's picture

I'm pretty sure the B1G and the SEC also want Texas and Oklahoma. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see how things unfold.

NC_Buckeye's picture

The B1G is interested in Oklahoma, yes. But not Okie State and I don't think there is any way to cut the politically-imposed ties between the two.

As far as Texas, if that's the case I'm going to start writing emails now. Those guys are toxic. I think most Huskers would freely admit their preference last spring would have been to return to the Big Eight days without Texas.

Good luck to Larry Scott, he's going to have his hands full with DeLoss Dodds and the Texas administration if they end up in the PAC.

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

Could it be that Boise won't get into a 'major' conference because no one wants to play them? I will tell you that I would rather have a home and home vs. the U and WVU than Boise. No AD or coach wants to be 'that guy who lost to Boise'. Its a lose/lose for traditional powers. Boise is the kid who doesn't get picked for kickball because the cool kids don't want to risk looking bad by losing to him.

gwalther's picture

Completely agree. Texas' arrogance destroyed their conference. The arrogance is reflected in many of their Alumni. They're toxic; everyone should stay away.

Class of 2008

Bucksfan's picture

If you substituted late-2000's Boise State with late-1970's Miami, and removed the names, you wouldn't know the difference in resume.  Miami was a nothing program that suddenly went to top of the college football world, and people were just as skeptical about how good they actually were as they are with Boise right now.  Only, in Miami's case, they were able to achieve VOTED NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS after their mega-bowl wins over teams like Oklahoma and Nebraska.  Unfortunately, Boise State needs votes BEFORE the national championship opportunity. 

And that is unfair, if only because it is clear that Boise State could beat the SEC champion if given the opportunity.  They've pretty much won every opportunity against a big-time ranked opponent over the last 5 years.  If they were mediocre, they wouldn't have gone 7 for their last 8.  But they did.

No one who knows anything about college football is able to legitimately build the case that the Pac-12, Big-12, ACC, or Big Ten champion can beat the SEC champion on a "neutral" field in January.  I feel that it is time to give Boise its chance because basically there is no one left over the last 5 years that has risen to the occasion.

Riggins's picture

Boise might not go undefeated in the SEC, B1G, etc.  But they are a legit team with plenty of talent. I have no doubts that they could be a perrenial 10 win team in any conference.

It amazes me that there are still people out there who think Boise is a 6-6 squad if they join an AQ conference.  They have NFL bodies out there. Open your eyes.