Thursday Skull Session

By Jeremy Birmingham on October 13, 2011 at 6:00a
118 Comments

Today is Thursday, October the 13th, and you are not in some horrible, horrible nightmare. This is your life.

The Ohio State Buckeyes football team is 3-3, have lost two games in a row and could potentially be looking at three in a row, and if three is realistic, then four is a darn near certainty.  

I am sure that most of you have plenty of friends who pledge allegiance to TSUN, and I am sure that most of them are chirping in your ear nearly every single day. How are you dealing with that? Do you lean on the last ten years to deflect their mental illness, knowing that if the Bucks can pull one out against them in November all the struggles of this year will be significantly easier to digest? Do you shrug your shoulders and say "Whatever dude, there's nothing else I can say about it at this point"?

Remember Buckeye fans, things are never as good as they seem, and they are never as bad as they seem. Last weekend was a tale of two halves, and this weekend will likely be the same way. Look to the future, don't forget the past and know that come December, the fates will turn their ugly head in a different direction. It's always harder to be the team at the top, and as we are knocked off the perch the focus will disappear.

Until Urban Meyer is named head coach.

WELCOME HOME, AGAIN In a season full of reminders about how life and sports always seems to be about ebb and flow, there is a recurring theme that has shown up throughout the first half of the Buckeyes' season. Former Buckeyes coming home to take on the Buckeyes.

 Tim Beckman coached at Ohio State. Mark Dantonio coached at Ohio State.  Bo Pelini played at Ohio State.  Now, it's the Zookster, who was born in Loudonville, Ohio and played football at Miami of Ohio as a defensive back and eventually coached the defensive backs at Ohio State under John Cooper form 1988-1990 before heading to Gainesville, Florida, where he served as Steve Spurrier's defensive coordinator on two separate occasions. 

Zook scored perhaps the biggest win of his career against Ohio State in 2007, and looks to continue to the unfortunate pattern of opposing coaches who are intimately aware with the Ohio State program having pretty good success against the scarlet and gray this year.

NO EXCUSES, EXCEPT FOR THESE EXCUSES Take a moment and think back to signing day of this past year. The Buckeyes were facing impending NCAA sanctions and dealing with five guys suspended for five games a piece. Tough to deal with, sure, but manageable. Having a a seasoned head coach like Jim Tressel and a group of assistants who knew their roles and had worked together for a while would make it much easier, right? Couple those positives with a roster full of talent and depth, and Ohio State should still be 5-0 after those five games regardless of the celebrity status of the suspended five, many thought.

Fast forward to the start of the 2011 season, and my lordy, how things changed for the Buckeyes. We all know the sordid details of every transgression committed by an Ohio State representative in the past twelve months, so I won't bore you with those details. It is, however, relevant for Buckeye fans and outsiders alike to recognize a seriously altered landscape of football in Columbus before popping the tops on celebratory libations because of the Buckeyes demise. Not only did JT get replaced by a guy who had never been a head coach or a coordinator (not co-coordinator),but the four year starting QB who was supposed to be back for the battle in Lincoln was now in the NFL; and those two things might have been the easiest to deal with.

When the season began, Ohio State added Travis Howard, Corey Brown and Jordan Hall to the suspended players list, along with LB Dorian Bell, who had departed for Duquesne after being unable to stay out of the doghouse at Ohio State before his difficulties with the NCAA. OG Corey Linsley was also suspended for the season's first two games for unrelated team violations. 

Remarkably, it's not gotten better since then. In week two alone, when the Buckeyes nearly fell to Toledo, Ohio State played without fifteen scholarship players. Since then, Philly Brown has missed two games, Jaamal Berry has missed games and Boom Herron and Devier Posey, who were scheduled to return to duty following their suspensions last year, had extra time tacked on for new moronic decisons. Marcus Hall took a seat on the suspended bus just as soon as Mike Adams got off. 

Now, take all the missed time and add into it these players who were slated to be on the roster during the spring, and for a variety of reasons, are no longer with the team:  Pryor, WR James Jackson, WR James Louis, LB E'Juan Price, LB Dorian Bell, and LB Jonathan Newsome, who have all transferred out of the program. 

JT left a cupboard for Luke, but perhaps it wasn't quite as stocked as we remember it being when Tressel "retired".

(Those fifteen players in week 2? RB Boom Herron, WR DeVier Posey, OL Mike Adams, OL Corey Linsley, OL Antonio Underwood, DL Chase Farris, DL Solomon Thomas, DL Nathan Williams, DL Melvin Fellows, LB Scott McVey, LB Conner Crowell, DB Corey Brown, DB Travis Howard, DB Donnie Evege, and RB Jordan Hall)

 

My dream coach has a first name, it's U-R-B...

 WHAT IF URBAN DOESN'T TAKE THE JOB? Ok, sure, maybe I am being a bit unfair to Luke, but I don't think I am going out on too much of a limb when I say that it doesn't appear as if he will be retained as Ohio State's head coach after this season. Yes, we all know that Luke is a dyed-in-the-wool Buckeye, and I for one will always remember him fondly for stepping up and taking on the role of whipping-boy this season. 

Urban Meyer appears to be considered the leader in the clubhouse among Buckeye fans, and with good reason. First of all, he's a winner, second of all he's from Ohio and finally, he's available. What if, though, Urban wasn't available come December? While it's definitely not likely, there's a remote possibility that he could seriously consider taking a job somewhere else; Penn State and Arizona both immediately come to mind. Those programs do not have the lure of Ohio State for Meyer, but those programs are not facing NCAA trouble and will not be saddled with NCAA penalties to hinder his program.

In Happy Valley, he would be taking over for a legend in Joe Paterno and be able to do so in a place that is football crazy, but not pressure-packed like Columbus. In Arizona, Urban would be a dominant force in recruiting and coaching in the Pac-12 or 18 or however many teams they have now, and would be able to do it in a great location; a location that might help him spend more time with his son as he continues to grow into a baseball star. 

So, what then, Buckeyes? The most recent name being bantered about as the "second choice"? None other than Tony Dungy. How would that make you feel? Would you prefer him or Jon Gruden if the next guy didn't come from a college?

 WILLING AND VRABEL. On Wednesday, Mike Vrabel got before the media and talked a bit about the Buckeye defense and how the first-year coach thought things were going. According to Vrabel, the biggest difference he noted between the NFL game and college was the amount of time that they were able to spend with the players. Due to the limited time spent with the guys, it becomes important to be more precise in the way the message is being communicated to avoid it being lost in translation. When he was asked about how he can move his players past the breakdown in Lincoln, Vrabel recalled a devastating loss that the New England Patriots were dealt in the 2006 AFC Championship game. Let's hope the Buckeyes rebound like that Patriots team, they  won the next 18 games they played.

Most interesting to me was how Vrabel talked about the team's lack of leadership.  When asked what type of leaders the team needs, Vrabel identified a lacking component on the defense: someone who is willing to call out other guys when necessary. 

 WHY'S KING SOLOMON (NOT PLAYING?) Solomon Thomas, the hero of the 2011 Sugar Bowl (What? What was that? That game never happened, man!), was eligible to return to action following his NCAA timeout, and made the trip to Lincoln last week with the Buckeyes and the rest of the Silver Bullets. If you're anything like me (uninformed, neurotic and skeptical) you probably figured that he didn't play because the coaching staff just didn't want him to. Along those lines, if you're anything like me, you are also wrong - a lot.

Thomas, who suffered a broken leg in the spring game, is still recovering and was not yet "ready" to go in game action, and that was the reason for his absence on Saturday night. With the news that Nathan Williams will miss the remaining games, Thomas could fill a big hole in the Buckeye defense if he is able to get back to playing soon. The fact that he traveled to the game is at least a positive indicator that he might not be too far off, one would think.

 QUICK SLANTS. Judas thinks Urban will end up in Columbus.... Sporting News thinks Buckeyes could finish up 5-7... Star Wars fans (nerds like me) enjoy... As if her career arch didn't already lead to dancing on poles.... Truth in fake advertising.

118 Comments

Comments

thorvath22's picture

If Luke can somehow managed to make it to or even win the B1G championship game I say keep him around and let me him build his own staff.... Anything less than that unfortunately means it's a nation wide job search.

faux_maestro's picture

Somebody explain to me how we can make it to the B1G championship game.

Inní mér syngur vitleysingur

Rooster Buckburn's picture

Hmmm...Tony Dungy...I like the ring to that

Mental Desperado's picture

It would be a great fit for Ohio State, certainly, but I think it's quite the long shot. I can't imagine him coming out of retirement for us, since he has no connection to the program and hasn't expressed any serious interesting in returning to coaching that I've heard.

 

It would be fantastic, though. *sigh*

luckynewman13's picture

I would call Dungy 1000 times before Gruden. I don't really get the fascination with Gruden anyway, yes he won the Super Bowl...

...with Tony Dungy's players and system

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

The players on D are probably taking the 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything' approach.

original buckeye's picture

I'm getting a little tired of these "cupboard was bare" and "Luke inherited a horrible situation" excuses that I'm hearing.  No one is irritated at Luke for these reasons--they're irritated at the indefensible personnel decisions that continue to be made under his watch, such as leaving Joe B in the Nebraska game when it was clear 3 games ago that he doesn't have what it takes to consistently complete passes and lead the offense (worse yet, he's still the backup on the depth chart, even after last week's 1-for-10 with a pick performance), and now leaving Boom off the depth chart when he's clearly the best running back on the team. 

Jugdish's picture

I agree. It seems that Fick and crew cannot evaluate the talent that they have. Baus is not a talent like Miller and I can't believe that Baus is better than Guiton or Graham. It seems to me that they are trying to keep older players in the game over better quility younger players. Fick said that the best players would play, but I have serious doubts about that statement.

Remember to get your wolverine spade or neutered. TBDBITL

AcrossTheField11's picture

Dungy could be a force on the recruiting front.  Could there be a better guy to sit down in a recruit's living room and sell the parents on a football program / school?  He's a proven winner with the morals, integrity, and the people building characteristics of Tressel.  It might be like Tressel 2.0 (albiet hopefully without that one big mistake).

P.S. Urban's daughter is hot. 

Time and change will surely show how firm they friendship... O-HI-O.

acBuckeye's picture

'Also, two very well-connected sources separately informed SportsRappUp.com of the following: Friction has set in between Fickell and Bollman, and first-year linebackers coach Mike Vrabel recently picked up the playbook during a staff meeting and fired it across the room at a group of offensive assistants, yelling “This is sh**!” '

I read this from an online article. Don't know if its true or not, but if it is, it would help explain why Fickell has been so passive in his decisions and actions. I think Bollman and Heacock are actually running the team right now, and without Tressel, they are being badly exposed like Ramzy said. I think Fick is masquerading as the Head Coach even more than we all originally thought. I bet the two Jim's want to do things their way, and b/c Vrabel and Fick have no experience at their current positions, they have no respect from the elders of the coaching staff. This, along with Christian Bryant (i think) calling out the offense a couple weeks ago, signs of a divided lockerroom are starting to pop up.

Also if this is true, then i'd prefer Fickell and Vrabel (who i love as a coach) to remain next season, and tell everyone else to take a hike, including Gee and Smith. Then these two guys can bring in their own staff, and the team would finally have some sense of direction. Of course, we could also get Meyer, which i'm still not sure what to think about that.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

I'm so glad Vrabel is with this team. He's the only one with the balls to call out Bollman and Siciliano.

I told you a few weeks ago that his quote about the booing wasn't a knock on the fans, but an indirect shot at Bollman and the offensive staff.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

If possible, would you please reference/link that comment from Vrabel? I don't remember seeing it.

acBuckeye's picture

Here ya go Fido:

http://sportsrappup.com/sections/stories/11-10-07/The_Messy_Pursuit_Of_Urban.aspx

I've never heard of the author or site before yesterday, but read it after a google search of Urban Meyer rumors. Worth reading all of it. The Vrabel comments are about halfway through it.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Thanks for providing the link. I didn't find in that article, however, a quote from Vrable addressing the booing in Ohio Stadium. Did I just gloss over it?

Doc's picture

Vrabel (who i love as a coach)

AC, I'm not trying to stir the pot, but what makes Vrabel such a good coach?  The linebackers haven't been playing lights out.  I'm sure he brings a players mentality and some fire, but what other than that?  Don't get me wrong I like Vrab's, but I'm not sold on his coaching performance yet.

"Say my name."

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

I say look at what he's working with. This could be the weakest group of linebackers we've had in a decade. That's not necessarily Vrabel's fault.

Doc's picture

I'll agree.  I'm not trying to find fault with the guy.  I'm coming from a background of not playing one single down of organized foosball.  I'm just wondering if there has been positives to his hire, other than a Buckeye coming home.

"Say my name."

acBuckeye's picture

I understand Doc. But Vrabel brings an intensity level that has been allegedly lacking on the team for years. Don't get me wrong, I don't want a basket-case like Will Muschamp stomping the sidelines and barking at his players non-stop. But someone who has had major success as a player, is young, passionate and can light a fire under his players can only be a good thing. Plus he's a homer..... even better.

Jugdish's picture

Why isn't Grant and Shazier getting a chance? I think these two are hungry for playing time.

Remember to get your wolverine spade or neutered. TBDBITL

SLVRBLLTS's picture

Shazier especially. Kid's got game. He must be missing assignments in practice or something. He's got speed and he's a headhunter, two things we aren't seeing this year yet from our LB's.

"Because we couldn't go for three"

Rooster Buckburn's picture

I agree with this - we all love Vrabel the player and the man - but after only 6 games why the love as a coach, seriously??

RBuck's picture

I don't know if this is on Vrabel or Heacock, but the LB's were totally out of position (lanes) last Saturday in the 2nd half.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

Rooster Buckburn's picture

agreed - linebacker play in general has been underwhelming this year.  They've flashed a couple of times, but to this point not the standard we're used to seeing at this position at TOSU

acBuckeye's picture

True indeed, but Sabino isn't a great tackler, and Sweat and Kline are just slow. The potential with those 3 is far out-weighing actual production. Shazier would be a nice shakeup.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I don't know if we - as fans - are in a position to unvravel all the moving parts, assign the right amounts of blame to this or that coach, and/or determine how stocked is the cubbard versus how difficient is the coaching, etc.

For example, It's been pretty obvious that Bollman was having a rough time, but then he called an excellent 2.5 quarters against Nebraska, until Braxton went down.

Meanwhile, Heacock is an excellent coach and yet this defense is probably underperforming; the last 1.5 quarters against Nebraska was pathetic and inexcusable - I don't care how bad the offense is, that should never, never happen to an Ohio State football team. Still, I have confidence in Heacock going forward.

Another seemingly obvious coaching difficiency is the new receivers coach; yet, it is his first time coaching that position.  

RBuck's picture

I called out Drayton the other day. The receivers aren't helping out the QB's at all...coming back for the ball..a lot of running to a spot and standing....etc.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I agree, but it's not unusal for inexperienced receivers to run poor routes, not have a feel for when to improvise, etc. It's pretty clear that, right now at least, Drayton is not yet a high-caliber receivers coach (if he's ever going to be), but it's also not necessarily clear that he's bad, either.

flipbuckeye's picture

Why keep Fickell when he continues to make awful coaching decisions?  He is in a position to step in and do something about the offensive offensive play calling (c wut i did thar), or cast Bauserman to the end of the bench, or call a freaking timeout even.  There's only so much blame we can put on everything and everyone else, when underneath it all, Fickell just doesn't know what he's doing yet.

acBuckeye's picture

But what if Fickell and the other, more established coaches are so much at odds in private, that Fickell is deferring to them at the moment in anticipation that those guys are gone next year? He doesn't want that infighting to be made completely public, which is possibly what could happen if he is seen squabbling with the other coaches during a game. When he was named Head Coach, he HAD to keep the guys already on board b/c there wasn't enough time to find anyone else.

Look, i agree his decision-making and leadership has been awful, but who's to say these things wouldn't change for the better if the other guys were gone? Of course, most of what i'm saying is just speculation, but its also hard to rip Fickell so much after only 6 games and a bunch of incompetent assistants. The poor dude probably feels like he has to do everything himself, which he obviously can't.

My outlook may change if we get curb-stomped by Wisky, then go to AA and lose.

Rooster Buckburn's picture

Well of course if you read it on the Internet it must be true ;^)

William's picture

I can understand saying Smith should go, but Gee? Really? So many people on this site are so clueless as to what his job is. I'm sorry folks but there is so much more to OSU than its football program, a lot of OSU's recent academic advancements are due to Gee. He's the best University president in the nation, why the Hell would you want to fire him? That's just stupid to even suggest honestly.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Not if you take the argument that he's the head of the university that completed botched and mishandled a situation numerous times.  Just like a football coach is responsible for everything football.  The university president is responsible for everything university.  The situation that we are in spans multiple university departments and has been poorly handled in every aspect.  That is a very understandable viewpoint and you don't have to agree with it. 

And next time, how about you present your own case instead of calling people clueless and being destructive by indirectly calling the opinion's of others stupid.

William's picture

Its not entirely understandable when you consider the scope of Gee's responsibilities. Football is not everything to this university. I guess it doesn't matter that under Gee's term OSU has risen amongst the ranks of public universities in the nation. It doesn't matter that because of him our Medical Center has been consistently ranked as one of the best in the nation, or that our Business School is one of the best, as is our College of Engineering, or our Vet School, or that due to his recent in increase in funding of rec centers and programs at the university we are now considered the fittest university in the nation. You're right Gee should go because he made a mistep when it came to this football mess. As a student I want Gee as my University's president, when I graduate, the work he has done as president will only make my degree that more valuable. But once again you're right, here it's all about FOOTBAW and nothing else. 

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

+infinity for William.

Gee has made some boneheaded comments concerning football. That we agree on. But this is still an academic institution, and Gee is a blessing to this university in that regard.

I have a venture I've been working on that concerns human resources, and one of the members of my advisory panel (not an official board) is high-up in HR at a Fortune 50 company. He said while some people may still have their biases based on history, their HR department now treats an OSU degree as being on par with a degree from UNC-Chapel Hill, Michigan, and UCLA. He did say that Cal-Berkeley and Virginia are sort of in a "class of their own" and are seen as on par with the Ivy League schools.

Your degree means more because of Gordon Gee. We're the 15th best public university in the US according to US News. We were 35th in the early to mid 2000s. Now we will press on and crack the Top 10 and hopefully the Top 5 until people say THE Ohio State in the same breath as "Virginia, Berkeley, Meatchicken"

Doc's picture

I've heard that Meatchicken's academic reputation has taken a hit in the last couple of years.  Any truth to that?

"Say my name."

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Yes it has, partly due to the decline of "hard sciences" and the expansion of their arts and humanities programs. OSU has invested heavily in the hard sciences and Fisher and is consequently graduating more engineers, researchers, and businessmen with practical skills whereas Michigan is graduating a lot of people with fine arts and humanities degrees.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Check this out:

http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=1195&profileId=6

http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=2007&profileId=6

Focus on the ACT scores (since that's what the highest percentage of kids submitted). Ten years ago, the numbers were not this close. We're breathing down Meatchicken's kneck yet again. Not bad when you consider we have 15,000 more undergrads as well. If we were to dwindle our admission spots down to Michigan's size, I bet our numbers would actually be better than Meatchicken's.

Baroclinicity's picture

I believe the majority of football players were majoring in kinesiology, and there were slots in the program being left open deliberately for them.  Article below is from 2008.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/academics/stories/index.ssf/2008/03/kinesiology_reserves_slots_for.html

cronimi's picture

Good points, Humble and William. Gee has done great things for the university, and the university has been so much better off with his leadership.  Compare what he accomplished during his first term as president vs. what his successors accomplished vs. his second-term accomplishments.  He undoubtedly has been one of the best university presidents in modern history--of any university.

Yes, Gee made some mistakes over the past year related to the football team, but those are isolated incidents in one department of the university -- it is not a systemic issue (bad Gene Smith joke).  Yes, Gee as president is over the entire university, including the athletic department and football team, but that doesn't mean he needs to be, or should be, replaced because of problems with the football team and a few unwise comments he made related thereto. 

Now Gene Smith, on the other hand -- that dude has to go, and soon.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Yes, exactly, my post was all about Footbaw.  Except for the points about this situation being one of the biggest PR disasters for the university and the fact that the people in the compliance and enforcement department as well as the athletic department have come off as completely incompetent, which was basically the entire post, but yes, all about footbaw.  It is apparent that you side with Gene Smith in that these violations were not a systemic problem, that must be your opinion and I disagree with you on it - my opinion of the problem is that it is much larger. And if it were a systemic problem, you look to the head of the system.  So while OSU is larger than football, football is a part of OSU and the president is ultimately responsible for all university parts, including football.

And again, way to insult the opinions of others.  Smith, being the direct head of athletics is the one in the most direct line of sight to the football violations, but after him, it's Gee.  I'm not even arguing for Gee's firing, although I wouldn't mind it and have been a proponent in the past, he's the ring leader of the recent circus.  I'm arguing that I can understand why he could be fired, which you are biased in your stance that you can't understand any other viewpoint and attack other's opinions.  

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

How bad would it look to the academic community if we fired a university president over issues concerning football? There would be a lot of academics, including the powers at the AAU, that would be asking "Does that university have its priorities straight?". A lot of parents saying "Do I want to send my kid to a place that cares more about football than academics?".

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

That is very true and I see your point.  However, some could say that Gee has had his share of public stupidity including the mishandling of this situation.  There could also be some parents saying, "Wow, how is OSU considered to be such a great academic institution when they can't even get themselves figured out? How are they going to guide my kid to greatness when they can't handle themselves?"  I do think Gee has been a great president.  When his time comes, he won't be easy to replace, but he will be replaced - everyone is replaceable.  Just like Tressel leaving OSU, another great coach will come in and lead the football team.  Same goes for Gee as long as we find an ambitious, imaginative and aggressive president.

William's picture

No, I disagree with Smith, this is a systematic problem, far too many football players have been hit with suspensions for us to not deserve FTM or LOIC. Your post is all about football, you're discussing football compliance, PR in respect to football, and the AD and his control of the football team. I'm sorry but it seems like compliance has had a problem with the football team, and only the football team as of late. Also if you wouldn't mind for Gee's firing then you really don't seem to want what's best for the university, because as of now Gee is proving himself to be the best president OSU has ever had. He is what is best for this university. He won't be easily replaced at all. The two men that could justifiably be fired right now are Gene Smith, and Doug Archie, they're the ones who have looked like complete fools in this mess.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

I am talking about football related matters - football players (also OSU students), football PR (also OSU PR), and compliance (also a part of OSU). I need you to realize that the perception of any part of OSU is still a perception of OSU as a whole. 

The way you sound about Gee right now is how many sounded about Tressel before he was whatever he was - let go - I thought Tressel should have been let go almost immediately. Like Tressel was not, Gee was not supernaturally sent to guide OSU.  He is and will be replaceable.  OSU is bigger than just one man, right?  We were fine before him, we are better with him and we can and will (eventually) survive without him.

I agree with you about the ones who can be justifiably fired right now.  My point on top of that is that Gee is next in line after them.  It depends on how far some (Board of Trustees) would want to take it.  I'm not starting a site "Fire Gee Now," but I can certainly understand why he could be fired and after this fiasco, I'm not opposed to it.  Just like people are calling for Fickell's head because he ultimately has all the responsibility and should make the final decisions for the football team - calling timeouts, playing Bauserman, offensive play-calling, etc..., Gee is this way for the entire university.  And honestly, throughout the entire situation, Gee has looked like Fickell - both are surrounded with incompetence, but only one is getting called out on it. Now I will acknowledge that the situations are very different, but I think there's a point be made there - Gee should at least get some shit for all of this - he must, he's the one ultimately responsible for OSU. You allowed to disagree with my opinion, but at least do it respectfully and without calling it stupid and me clueless.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Great points. Gee deserves much credit, although many other people contributed to the university's rise as well.  

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

The recession has contributed to the rise of public universities in general as many talented kids are opting for in-state tuition or scholarships from their State U as opposed to taking out exhorbitant loans to go to Northwestern, Duke, or an Ivy League school. The public university environment as a whole is more competitive than ever, and yet Gee is leading a charge to the top.

acBuckeye's picture

You all make good points, and in retrospect, i could live with Gee staying on as prez. But like most others have said, Smith MUST go. All he did was ride on Andy Geiger's coattails, who also left amid scandal.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

I'm torn between Meyer or Gruden.

Meyer is a proven college coach and I salivate when I think about what he could probably do with Braxton Miller. Meyer is very technical. I don't believe he is as charasmatic as Gruden, but he certainly passes the "this guy knows what he's talking about" test if you listened to him boradcasting.

Gruden strikes me as a guy who could be an unbelievable recruiter. He's charasmatic and charming, but he knows how to criticize guys and does so in a positive way. It seems people listen to him because they genuninely like him. He's one of those guys you listen to because you're like "Damn, this guy knows what he's talking about". If you're a recruit and Jon Gruden walks in your living room saying he wants you to play football for him, how do you say no? After all, this is the guy you've seen on MNF, and Gruden's QB Camp, and he's flashing a Super Bowl ring.

I think Meyer will bring stability and some level of certainty as to the direction of the program. But I think Gruden would bring some MUCH needed energy and charisma to a program everyone loves to hate. I'm leaning towards Gruden.

 

WTf? Tony Dungy? Sure, he's a solid delegater. But I see no Peyton Mannings around Columbus. Everyone and their brother knows that Peyton ran that offense. I'm sure he'd be a great recruiter though (or AD... hint hint).

SLVRBLLTS's picture

I know Gruden personally. He will never coach in college football. When asked about the Miami job when it was open, he responded "when was the last time the University of Miami won a Super Bowl?"

"Because we couldn't go for three"

BoFuquel's picture

Do we really need UM, after all you can't spell dumb without UM.

I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

klfeck's picture

+ 1,000,000

Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University

JLP36's picture

There is no indication that Urban Meyer wants to coach.  If he did, is there any indication that a spread offense coach without spread super hero Tim Tebow would be successful at Ohio State or in the Big Ten?  The spread game is now for the little guys trying to nuetralize a speed advantage.

Urban Meyer could not cope with the pressure in Gainesville.  In Gainesville, he was a hero who won 2 NCs in 3 years.  He could get away with answering questions about his players endless problems with the law by saying that wasn't his problem.  If he couldn't cope in Gainesville, how could he cope with these off the field pressures?

Gruden is not going to coach one day of college football in his life.  What does he have to gain?  He can make more money working 20 days a year and that "working" is actually watching games!

Before you fire your coach, you have to KNOW who you can get.  See Michigan, Rich Rod...

 

JLP36

RedQueenRace's picture

If he did, is there any indication that a spread offense coach without spread super hero Tim Tebow would be successful at Ohio State or in the Big Ten?

I'm with you on this.  I always felt that what Tebow provided was the big power back that is generally needed for success in the SEC.  After Tebow graduated he was left with guys like Demps and Rainey when he needed to run between the tackles.

jenks's picture

This urban meyer talk is getting out of control. It makes us all sound like desperate teens who were just dumped. It sounds pathetic. Everyone knows. Can we please stop now?

Rooster Buckburn's picture

you just described a big percentage of our fan base :)

Denny's picture

Along the lines of your analogy, would it be better to be abused spouses who just go along and ignore the signs of a bad relationship?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but to completely ignore the fact that we're in a shitty relationship and just think things will get better is as silly as sounding desparate. Unfortunately, there doesn't really seem to be a particularly good middle ground - especially when you take into account how DERPy Gene Smith has been this whole time (our dad? I don't know how to keep this analogy afloat anymore).

Taquitos.

jenks's picture

Fair. I'm not advocating that we should completely stop talking about coaching changes though, or even Meyer for that matter, but this drooling over him (like the website that was posted) is a bit too much.

The_Lurker's picture

Gruden would only be a viable candidate if he completely simplifies his system. It's pretty well known that Gruden's offensive terminology is among the most complicated in the game. When he was in the NFL, he didn't want young quarterbacks. He wanted veterans who would have less trouble translating the new terminology into what they had already worked with. (Seriously, did he ever develop a QB as a head coach? He used guys like Gannon and Brad Johnson.) There's a great section about this in Pat Kirwan's book "Take Your Eyes off the Ball" (HIGHLY recommended reading, btw). 

If Gruden didn't think a young NFL QB could handle his lingo, how could someone a year or two out of high school? In the NFL there are a lot fewer restrictions on how much time coaches can spend with players. There would be about 15 delay-of-game penalties every week and countless times a back or lineman would run the wrong way or a receiver run the wrong route. I just don't see Gruden as a college coach unless he dumbs down his system significantly.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

You're correct here, and a more powerful underlying message here relates to the ability of NFL to transition down to the college game.  I think this transition is being overlooked by many who want to bring in an NFL coach.  Coaching in the NFL and in college are entirely different beasts - I think we should stick with a college coach with no NFL experience.  And for the record, I'm not a proponent of Meyer.  I'd rather stay with Fickell and turn him into our JoePa - why can't he learn on the job?  Or are we that superficial that we'd rather immediately win games  instead of having a guy who may give a chance to win games, but will also be a large advocate of OSU as a university.

Rooster Buckburn's picture

And really the thought that Gruden would be a 'good hire' for OSU is totally speculation based only on his name.  What has he ever won in college football?  He won in the NFL, but like you point out - its a different game on this level.  Urban Meyer, on the other hand, has name recognition AND has proven himself on the college level at a couple different programs - that's why I like Meyer (no I'm not a jilted teen either).

klfeck's picture

Gruden love is not based on his name. It is based on his experience and success as a HC. Something LF does not have. BTW, I am not a Gruden groupie and I have no idea if he could be successful with college kids. Coaching in the NFL and the NCAA does seem to be apples to oranges. Given Meyers recent issues at UF, I am not sure he has the stamina to be a good pick for OSU.  Although, I will take him for 5 years if he can get us 2 NC's in 3 years.

 

BTW- Gruden won the SB in Tampa with Dungy's players. Dungy left Tampa and won in Indy. Clearly, Dungy is the superior coach......

Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University

BacknBlack's picture

Gruden or Dungy?? Name me the last NFL guy that has taken an NCAA head job and impressed?

We need an AD that will do his homework before this move.

Smith must go, bring back Andy.

Rooster Buckburn's picture

I continue to say this - but how Smith still has his job is beyond baffling to me.

BacknBlack's picture

I could answer that, however this place would be up for grabs!

Rooster Buckburn's picture

naked pictures of Gee??

BacknBlack's picture

What impressed you the pimp like recruiting tactics, maybe the player payments or was it the vacated titles and Heisman...........forget it I don't have the time. Glad you were impressed!

RoweTrain's picture

All of the #winning impressed me.

Doc's picture

Come on BnB gimme a break...  We all know Pete Carrol had a lot of success at USC.  Just like Tress had here.  Not calling him a success is just jealousy or homerism.  Like him or not he made a good transition from the NFL to College and back to the NFL.

 

Gruden might not be able to do it, but who knows until he tries.  Hell, Urban might not do it in C'bus either.  No matter who gets the job it will be a crap shoot.

I think the NCAA is going to give us at least a two year bowl ban, giving Fick the job for another couple of seasons.  This will give him the chance to get his staff, but it will hurt recruiting in the long run.  Making us a second tier B1G team.  JMHO.

"Say my name."

btalbert25's picture

In any of the NCAA findings at USC, did Pete Carol's name ever get mentioned for wrong doing?  Here at Ohio State, Tressel got the program in trouble, but I thought the stuff with USC had more to do with Reggie Bush and agents. Is there a show cause for Pete Caroll, there's probably going to be one for JT.  Just saying, in the NCAA's eyes, Caroll didnt' really do anything wrong, and is more desirable than JT. Fair or not.

Buckeye in Athens's picture

I actually don't mind old Surfer Pete and I like his winning. Don't think he'd ever be considered though because he captained the last major ship to sink by the NCAA. 

btalbert25's picture

I'm not saying he should be the coach, just answered the question posed above.  Who was the last NFL guy who had success in college football.

chitown buckeye's picture

Pete Carroll?

"I'm having a heart attack!"

Indy_Buck87's picture

Reality Check: By the way I am Colts season ticket holder and know a little about the man. Tony Dungy is not interested in coaching. If he were he would have not left the colts and the winningest NFL team during the past 10 years (maybe not after this seasons 0-16) headed by arguably the greatest quarterback to ever play the game (Manning not Painter). I know dreaming of this coach or that coach is a nice distraction from the bauser bombs and bollman but the chances of Dungy coaching again are less than hitting the power ball.

I know of only two things that are infinite, space and human stupidity.....and I'm not sure about space". Albert Einstein.

Rooster Buckburn's picture

here's to no more bauser-bombs or bumbling bollman

BoFuquel's picture

Our man Eugenius is only a puppet.This pile of stink goes way higher than a little department head.Whomever heads the hire UM movement.There you have the head, lop it off. Always go to far, because that's where you'll find the truth.

I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

Doc's picture

I think Wexner is the head that needs lopping off.  He was the guy that forced Tressel out.  He is the head of the Trustees.  He's the guy that will fire/hire the next AD and HC.  No doubt Genie needs to go, but who wll be the next AD?  Geiger ain't coming back.

"Say my name."

btalbert25's picture

Tony Dungy ain't gonna happen.  When Michigan was looking to hire someone this time around, I saw an interview with Dungy.  He was talking about how growing up he always rooted for and loved Michigan.  Essentially, they were his favorite college team.  The guy doing the interview said, so if the phone rings and it's Michigan do you take the call?  Tony smiled and said, I'd answer the phone and give them a list of names who I think would be terrific coaches.  So, in my opinion, if his favorite school tried to land him and he turned them down, I don't see any way on earth he would end up at their most hated rival as the head coach or AD or anything else.

M Man's picture

RE:  Tony Dungy and Michigan.

Tony grew up in Jacskon, MI, sort of equidistant from Ann Arbor and Lansing.  He was a flat-out star in high school in the late 1960's.  He essentially grew up in an era that was borderline pre-Schembechler.  The football power, not just in the state, but also in the Conference had for many years been Duffy Daugherty's Michigan State program, filled with Texas kids who were barred from SEC  and [the old] Southwest Conference scholarships due to the last vestiges of segregation.  Dungy really did want to play for Daugherty and his staff.

Tony Dungy may have been a Michigan fan (not surprising) but from a recruiting perspective, he had been a Michigan State lock.  One of Duffy's assistants had made such a personal project of Tony, that when Dungy graduated and Duffy was suddenly fired at MSU, the former assistant went to Minnesota, and as he did, he brought the recruit Dungy with him.

Dungy's playing career as a Gopher and then as a pro and a coach, is history.

Fast forward to 2007.  Lloyd Carr is retiring from Michigan.  And AD Bill Martin is looking for a new Head Football Coach.  Martin (by background an Olympic sailor and a vastly successful developer and banker) convenes his own special search committee.  And he astonishes all of the committee people (mostly old Michigan football guys) by suggesting that the kind of coach he'd like to get is "Tony Dungy."  Which left absolutely everybody scratching their heads and wondering why Martin or anybody else would even think that Dungy would have any interest in coaching a big college program.  (Dungy had no such interest.)  It was simply Martin, talking.

Tony Dungy was not otherwise a remotely serious candidate for the Michgan job.  Ever.  I don't think he was ever offered the job.  And so I don't think he ever turned the job down.

If people in Columbus are talking about Dungy now, my guess is that it has about the same level of seriousness.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

I also think OSU is farther away from hiring a coach.  Not just in time but in mindset.  We're all a little frustrated with Fickell, but that's not to say that the university won't keep him around pending NCAA sanctions.  Say (hypothetical) we beat Illinois, lose a good game to Wisc and win out. We've got a young team and if he can start to win with the youngsters, I say give him a few years to at least make his own attempt.

Nappy's picture

I cant see Dungy making a return to coaching, let alone college.  He's too involved with his foundation and he really likes his gig at NBC.  I'd say Gruden is a better possibility

Fan of bacon since 1981

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Anyone else notice how Urban Meyer has only done noon games (except this past week) this year, has only worked with Spielman, and has generally stayed within an hour and a half flight from Columbus? I'm sure Spielman probably hits the road or takes the next flight home right after each game to get home to his kids. Perhaps Urban has similar motivations and the two were paired with this in mind.

 Here are Urban and Spielman's stops this year:

Week 1: Columbus, OH

Week 2: Madison, WI

Week 3: Clemson, SC 

Week 4: Pittsburgh, PA

Week 5: Dallas, TX (2 hr 40 min flight)

Week 6: State College, PA

btalbert25's picture

It cracks me up that people somehow think that Columbus is so much more pressure than Gainesville.  Hell the damn basketball team won back to back titles and it was still 2nd page news to what Tim Tebow had for breakfast.  Whether people would like to admit it or not, Florida is as premier of a program as any other football program in America and pressure is as great there if not greater than anywhere else in America.  Huge expectations with an extremely difficult league means a ton of pressure.  A case can be made that it would be more pressure down there than in Columbus.

BucksfanXC's picture

I think you're making some sweeping generalizations yourself. I don't live in Columbus or Gainesville, but I know that in both places football is king, basketball takes a backseat. In Florida they have at least three, traditional premier football programs, not to mention bordering GA and Alabama with a few huge schools/rivalries.

I don't think you can compare the two. But pressure would still be great, maybe not as great, but maybe greater.

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

btalbert25's picture

I just find it laughable that people just assume well he couldn't handle the pressure there(which we really don't know exactly what was going on down there that put him in that position) Columbus would kill him because the pressure is so much greater down there.  Because of so many powers near Gainesville, it's harder to pull in recruits not to mention when schools like OSU start plucking kids from Florida too, and the competition is just much greater in the SEC whether we like to admit it or not.

In my opinion, retaining top level talent in state at Ohio State would be much easier, so recruiting wouldn't be so stressful, and lets face it, the conference isn't nearly as grueling.  Fans expectations may be high as they are every year, but I do think a case can be made the Columbus wouldn't be as high of pressure for Meyer as Florida was. 

NC_Buckeye's picture

BT, you and I have traded barbs about Urban many times now.

You want to know what worries me the most about Meyer: his offense lives or dies by the system he uses -- the Spread Option. I think all versions of the spread are a gimmick that eventually good defenses figure out. Afterall this is the same system that Rodriguez used at UM, right? Heacock/Fickell seemed to have figured that out pretty easily the last couple of years.

Besides that though, once you commit to a coach who has that as his system, you are now committed to keeping him around until he has the personnel to effectively run his system (3-4 years). Everyone talks about all the young talent we have on both sides of the ball and that Fickell's replacement should be able to win B1G championships right away. I guarantee that Urban isn't going to see it that way. He's probably going to say that while we have offensive talent -- we don't have the right offensive talent to effectively run his system.

Then after Meyer is burnt out on coaching again (around year 3 JMHO), his replacement is stuck with players recruited for the Spread Option. Replacement coach now has to run some hybrid version of the spread until he can just get back to normal position players. Sound familiar? Look north to AA.

[edited - Removed Gruden comments after reading wise advice from Maestro.]

btalbert25's picture

For what it's worth, I've never been an Urban Meyer or bust guy despite what you may think.  In Fact last week I even said Gruden would be my first pick, then Meyer.  I'm mostly just commenting on the fact that people automatically assume, well this happened in Florida so by default it will happen here.  I totally understand what your fears are about Meyer and they are legitamate.  I'm also just commenting on the fact that people are making it sound like coaching at Florida would be like coaching a MAC school if you compare it to the pressure the Ohio State job has, and it's just not true. 

If Meyer coached here for 6 years and brought two national titles, but there 3 seasons where a BCS bowl was missed, I think that would be a wildly successful 6 years.  The type of atheltes he could bring in here to run his offense would be similar to what he brought to Florida, and top to bottom, in my opinion, the quality of defense he'd be facing overall is lower than the quality of defenses he faced in the SEC.  Plus, he practically had a boner over Braxton Miller on TV.  He has the QB in place here to run his offense.  That's all I'm saying.  We could have quite a bit success. 

That being said, I agree with you, I'd like a guy who is going to be here for a while, not just 3 or 4 years, but again I can't comment on what Urban will or won't do at his next job because I really don't know what the circumstances were at Florida that made him have the problems he did.  We know his health wasn't great, and obviously family pressure had a lot to do with it.  However, in Columbus he's at home essentially, and I really do think recruiting and conference competition wise, the pressure would be down a notch here.  Not saying recruiting is easy here, I just think it's easier to keep Ohio kids in Ohio than it is in Florida. Plus he'll be able to pluck kids from Florida as well. 

You are also correct though that it'll be hard to know what kind of hunger and intensity he'll have now.  I do think, though, a year away from coaching may work positively and he may have more fire now, than before and his batteries will be recharged a bit.  It's really impossible to know either way, but if you are going out there and trying to hire a great college coach, why not grab one who has basically been successful at every stop he's every stop he's coached.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

^This.

Ohio State fans are passionate, sometimes to a fault. But the folks of Gator Nation can be downright retarded. The pressure Urban felt from the fanbase and the media was immense.

You'll find many more people with decent jobs and college degrees in Columbus and its surrounding areas than you will in the trailer parks that border Gainesville (and I'm being literal when I say trailer parks).

BucksfanXC's picture

Man, ever fan base has trailer park idiots. Florida has jorts wearing rednecks, Michigan has Walmart Wolverines, and guess what, we do too! Any college team has fans of their teams that didn't go to school there, some that didn't go to school anywhere, or couldn't if they wanted to and are idiots. When you have a good team and big program, there is pressure. How much pressure depends on a lot of factors. I'd argue the most important variable in how much pressure a coach feels isn't the media, fanbase, rival schools win percentage, bowl games, or any of that, it's the coach himself (or herself)! How much do you think you are being pressured is really how much you are being pressured.

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong about the relative breeding of Ohio State fans v. Florida fans, per se, but the logical basis of your point is flawed.

It's simply not true that "every fan base has [about the same number of] trailer park idiots." Do the fan bases of Stanford University and West Virginia University, respectively, include roughly the same percentages of "trailer park idiots" on a per capita basis? 

Now that we've established that not all fan bases are the same (or equal in terms of the trailer park quotient), how do Ohio State and Florida compare? My money is on UF having a much higher percentage of fans who are high school dropouts, inbreds, residents of trailer parks, have IQs south of 100 points, etc. 

klfeck's picture

 Do the fan bases of Stanford University and West Virginia University, respectively, include roughly the same percentages of "trailer park idiots" on a per capita basis?

 

^ No because most WV fans can't afford a trailer.....

WV, the only state that KY can make fun of.

Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University

timdogdad's picture

so i'm guessing the  best deal on jorts is at walmart?  would go good with my mullet. or aka in arkansas as an arkansas waterfall...   

klfeck's picture

I had a dream once that my Bucks beat those razorbacks and shut up their slop slinging fans.

Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

In his career at UF, Meyer had a 3-loss, a 4-loss and a 5 loss season in his 6 years at UF. I'm not so sure OSU fans would accept these seasons, granted if you placed 2 NCs in there they would be more forgiving.  I mean when JT would lose a single game, whispers started up. 

Buckeyejason's picture

Tressel also had an easier schedule compared to what Urban had to face year in and year out.

And why do people keep saying that you can't win with a spread offense in the Big Ten?

Of coarse you can, obviously you have to be able to run the ball..but if you an elite Defense(Something Meyer had every year at UF) than yes, you can definitly win in the Big Ten with an "spread" offense.

The problem with most spread offense teams is they don't have great defenses..the only one that I could think of year in and year out is Oklahoma.

BUCKEYES BABY!

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

We're comparing apples to oranges.

What if Tressel had the recruiting advantages of coaching a team in Florida?

Also, how would Tressel's defenses look against a spread if they had to encounter it every week? I'm sure they'd be more prepared.

And one could make the argument that the Big Ten was a tougher conference from 2001-2005 than the SEC, but then it fell off from 2006-2010. In those years though, Tressel won 10+ games three times. One also has to speculate why the Big Ten went from Sagarin's toughest conference in 2005 to a mediocre BCS conference from 2006 onward. My theory is that a lot of talented kids who may have gone to Iowa, Penn State, Michigan, or Wisconsin decided to go elsewhere because they knew that with Tressel at OSU, they probably would never win the conference. From 1999-2002, SEVEN different schools won or shared a Big Ten title. That number dwindled considerably after Tressel exerted dominance over the conference. Same thing happened to the Pac-10 when Pete Carroll was at USC. It went from well-balanced and strong conference to mediocre. From 1995-2000, SEVEN different Pac-10 schools won outright or tied for a Pac-10 title. Then from 2002-2006, that number dwindled to three, with USC winning a share of 2002 and 2006, and winning outright 2003, '04, and '05. Who's to say a Pete Carroll or Jim Tressell wouldn't have done the same thing to the SEC? One could argue Saban and Miles are having a Tressel/Carroll effect on the conference right now. LSU and Bama look great. The rest of the conference looks very very average when compared to every other conference. We could very well be seeing that the 2011 SEC is in the same place as the 2006 Big Ten.

btalbert25's picture

The case could also be made that recruiting in Florida would be much harder than recruiting in Ohio(which is also a talent rich state) because Ohio State had no competition.  Most great Ohio players want to go to Ohio State.  In Florida you have 3 major universities all of who continue to pull in great recruits.  Then the proximity of a lot of powerhouse schools.  Hell people criticized Tressel for the few high profile Ohio kids who opted to go elsewhere in his 10 years, instead of praising his ability to keep most of them at home.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Not disagreeing with you there. Beating The U int he Fiesta Bowl and the decline of FSU would have gone a long way towards helping Tressel.

What are your thoughts on my other point concerning the Tressel/Carroll effect? Do you see this possibly happening right now with Saban and Miles pretty much claiming a death grip on the conference? Will this drive recruits elsewhere?

klfeck's picture

And one could make the argument that the Big Ten was a tougher conference from 2001-2005 than the SEC, but then it fell off from 2006-2010

 

^ My point exactly.

Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Florida fans are irrational. It is as simple as that.

When Urban took over, they had exactly one national championship in their "storied" history, and even that was a gift to them from John Cooper (1996 being the year). Before Urban took over, they had only won the SEC six times. They've never had an undefeated season (unless you count 1911 when they were 5-0). When Urban took over, Florida had a losing record all time against Tennessee, and they still have a losing record against Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Ole Miss, and in state rival Miami. When Urban took over, they were 14-18 all time in bowl games, including 0-3 in their previous three bowl games against Big Ten teams. You think 41-14 is bad? Florida was embarrassed by Nebraska 62-24 in the 1995 Fiesta Bowl, their first appearance in a National Championship game. They only had 24 consensus All-Americans in their esteemed history before Urban (31 after Urban... compare that to our 78 consensus All Americans). They had finished in the Top 5 only eight times pre-Meyer, compared to our TWENTY-ONE Top 5 finishes in the final polling (seven since 2002 alone).

Yet the Gator fans pressured Meyer as if they were Alabama or Ohio State. They're not. Meyer brought them to that level, but the expectations got to be ridiculous.

Florida is not Ohio State, Alabama, Meatchicken, Texas, USC, or even Penn State in terms of history. Hell, they were the third best team in their own state in the 90's. But the fans down their think and act like they should be a contender every year. What is Florida though? Well, they have a .632 winning percentage all-time and zero undefeated seasons. They're a 7-5, 8-4 team each year. Every once in a while they'll give you double digit wins, but they'll be 7-5 in the next year.

 

Doc's picture

Meyer going to PSU would suck donkey balls.  That would give their errogant fan base even more reason to walk around like the cock's of the walk.

I honestly believe he would be the best fix for the program right now.  The university needs to be talking to him in private and making sure he doesn't get away. 

We think C'bus is the most pressure because we are fans.  I'm sure Gainsville, or Talahassee, or any other place is just as stressful as tOSU.

The problem with Meyer coming in the pressure will be pumped up to unbearable levles.  He is a rockstar with a history of winning.  He will have to do it quickly here or be under fire.  If he wins MNC's with us, well he was supposed to.  If he doesn't he will be a failure.  If he goes anything more than one losss to TSUN he will be a failure.  Think about it. 

"Say my name."

btalbert25's picture

Some of JT's 2 loss or 3 loss if you count bowl games, teams would've certainly been 4-6 loss teams in the SEC.  Look at how bad the Big Ten has been for the majority of the last decade.  Sure there have been quality teams at the top, but get below 2 or 3 teams and it's been mostly garbage.  Look, Georgia and South Carolina in mediocre years were probably still good enough for 4th in the B1G most of the last decade.  Throw in a matchup every year with LSU, and the possibility of playing Auburn and Bama too, and there weren't a lot of just easy games in conference.

Now put those same Florida teams up against a slate that includes Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois most years, Michigan State, Michigan the last 3 years, even Northwestern and see what the results are. 

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

For as speculative as your comment is, you can't use the word certainly and you really can't make that argument at all because we have no idea what happened in games that weren't played.  I think you are discounting the Big Ten a bit and overplaying the SEC.  There is a disparity, but not like you present.

btalbert25's picture

I'm just saying if you compare the schedules of the two teams.  Ohio State would've had similar results.  It's hard for any  team to win 10 a year, but if you plop Ohio State into Florida's schedule every year, they probably don't win 10 games 8 out of 10 years.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Well, we would never lose a nonconference game, I can tell you that much.  And their bowl games, I believe we defeated most of the opponents they played.  So put us in with Tenn (been down longer than UM), USC (played in 1st SECCG ever last year), Georgia (met expectations once in past 10 years - 2007), vanderbilt and kentucky and still think we do fine.  I don't think we win the NC's that UF did, but I bet our "off" seasons were better than theirs.  I think UF football is more of an ON/OFF thing than the SEC is that much better of a conference.

Doc's picture

There is truth to this statement.  The B1G has been lowsy for some time now.  Wisky is the cream of the crop this year, and everyone else is just mediocre, or worse.  We are a few plays short of being 4-1 or even 5-0.  Think about that for a minute.  That isn't a rousing indorsemant of OSU football as much as it is a big 'ol slap in the face to the B1G.

JT had the good fortune of running rough shod over a weak league.  It doesn't look to be getting any better in the near future.  Hopefully the next coach can right the ship quickly and get us back to winning Championships.  Even if your the King of the Dipshits, you are still a king.

"Say my name."

klfeck's picture

Please see comment above you for similar list of SEC dipshits.

Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University

JLP36's picture

FIRE GENE SMITH.  FILL THE VACANCY WITH THE HIGHEST QUALITY NAME POSSIBLE, EVEN IF THAT PERSON WILL ONLY DO IT ON AN INTERIM BASIS TO RESTRUCTURE THE DEPARTMENT.

Then and only then, discuss the possibility of a coaching change and then the first step is to determine who is available.  The first step is not to fire the coach and then look around.

Do you want GENE THE DESTROYER SMITH hiring the next coach?  NO THANKS!

JLP36

RoweTrain's picture

If that coach happens to be Urban Meyer, then yes.

Doug Buckles's picture

The staff as a whole is to blame for the current mess. It is the staff's job to prepare the players. Their first error was allowing baus to see the field. It doesn't matter what little he showed in spring or summer, everyone knew what baus could(can't) do. The first two games should have been full on prep mode for braxton to get reps because everyone and their mother knew the full capabilities of baus. That was the first of many errors by the staff. It has been a trickle down effect from there. You do not want to switch quarterbacks at any point in the season. It was evident if baus was going to qb the season was going to be a steaming pile.

The offensive coordinator and quarterback coaches are jokes. This leads to bad play calling, bad adjustments, and bad quarterback play. This will not change until the two are removed.

Oklahoma usually manages to offer an efficient offense tailored to what they have talent wise. And it is usually effective. Rarely the case with Ohio State.

On the defensive side of the ball, sweat, klein, and sabino are not getting it done and look slow. Instead of hoping they get faster, perhaps a 5-2-4 should be looked at. Sweat isn't coming out bc he's the senior backer but the other two are underperforming. Put Shaz out there w/sweat and let him run around hitting people.

And finally, my favorite player, Moeller, is a strong safety. The Star position is a catchy moniker and all but he is a strong safety. Use him as such. Blitz him off the edge or have him run with the tight end or provide zone coverage. Do not ask him to walk down and man the slot receiver. Do not put him in the box at backer because he is not a linebacker.

If Heacock(terribly overrated as a def.coordinator) is going to stick with the nickel d, he needs to send Moeller off the edge and Sabino through one of the gaps. That is really the only option to have the base 4-2-5 d be effective in dictating to the offense. Bring heat since nobody has shown the cajones to be a playmaker.

Defenses like LSU and Florida always seem to play pissed off and in attack mode. OSU's defense hasn't played like that since Hawk and co were in jersey.

-Staff needs to be overhauled in the off season. Tressel has his fingerprints all over this staff. Tress was also overrated as a football coach. Pick a name out of a hat and they could have coached the same exact players the past decade to the same, if not better, results. You may disagree but until you can justify kicking a field goal at home from the one yard line in a season defining game, with a 6-5 240 lbs qb vs a team that EMBARRASSED you the previous year, you argument is moot. That play, to me, exemplified everything Tress did as a coach. I am gratefull for the 2001 run and title but he needed fired after the florida game. 

klfeck's picture

Pretty good viewpoint except for this:

 

 OSU's defense hasn't played like that since Hawk and co were in jersey.

 

Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University

Maestro's picture

Man I am tired of this discussion. Fickell is the coach. Support him. This is a discussion for the OFFSEASON, not the MIDSEASON.

vacuuming sucks

NC_Buckeye's picture

+1000

And with that, I'll go back into lurk mode for a while.

JLP36's picture

Absolutely.  Enough of the defeatism.  Yes, the team and staff is deeply flawed this year.  Look around, how could it not be?  This season would be rough if none of the crap happened just based on the injuries.  Given all that, they can still go out and kick ass, especially Michigan's ugly ass, and do some good things.  Look at the schedule!  Only Wisconsin is a truly good team. 

Let them play some football, then worry about the staff.  All this talk makes it looks like we need to hire someone in the open week.

I could probably tick every loss in the last 20 years off the top of my head.  I hate that they are struggling, but I plan to watch Big Hank and John Simon kick ass and enjoy watching all the frosh and other young players turn the corner.  Look closely and you will notice a lot of them are growing up to become real Buckeyes!

JLP36

Maestro's picture

Yes, yes and more yes. There is still 1/2 of a season to play. Press on and look for improvement. The future is bright.

I am someone who would argue that Ohio State is the most consistent program (if not top 3) in the history of college football. In the grand scheme this is just a blip on the radar.

Support the team and focus on the NOW. There aren't going to be mid-season firings. Let the offseason happen THEN.

vacuuming sucks

CliffordTheBRD's picture

Kind of funny how lots of other fan bases are fantasizing about hiring Tressel, while we dream about Urban, Jon, and Tony. Probably all about as realistic.

JLP36's picture

I am sure that Gene Smith and Tressel will team up again at Smith's next job.  They have to be tight the way Gene stood behind him because he knew what kind of man Tressel was...

JLP36

RBuck's picture

You're only as good as the people around you. With that, I'm beginning to not care who the next coach is. Tress micro-managed and was the OC, QB coach etc. Bring in some good assistants and things could improve immensely. I want a coach who can recruit and evaluate staff.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)