The Patron Saints Of Hubris

By Johnny Ginter on June 2, 2011 at 1:00p
68 Comments
Saint Brutus the Intractable

In the coming days and weeks the names of Jim Tressel and Terrelle Pryor are going to become slowly intertwined forever. The sins of one are going to be linked the the downfall of the other, but the truth of the matter is that both men are guilty of the kind of hubris that comes with not recognizing the new reality of college football: there's no such thing as "handling it internally" anymore. Sooner or later, the piper, in the form of the media, or fans, or the long arm of the NCAA will come calling. And he will be paid.

As far as Pryor is concerned, his motivations seem to be nothing more than what you might expect; a combination of a desire for what he felt was owed, a willingness to go out and get those things, and a generous helping of ego appear to have led Pryor to break a number of NCAA rules and, if NBC4 is correct, actual laws as well. Maybe in time the full story will tell us otherwise, but for now the Terrelle Pryor story is unfortunate, highly annoying, and predictable in hindsight.

Jim Tressel's role in this kind of hubris is much more interesting to me, because his obfuscation and reluctance to make his players' indiscretions subject to widespread scrutiny and punishment seems to be part of a pattern on his part to try and solve problems in house. Born from a genuine desire to teach his players a lesson in the manner he felt was best and coupled with a desire to maintain the integrity of his program, Tressel was naive enough to believe that the same methods he used to run his program in 1993 were just as adequate in 2010.

His intentions weren't entirely pure, but I truly think that Tressel felt that his methods were for the overall benefit of his players, by protecting them from punishment from a faceless and uncaring entity and by allowing him to teach them the kind of lesson he felt was appropriate.

The problem is this: none of that matters, because there is no "in house" anymore. Eventually something will come out.

Since both Jim Tressel and I have our Master's in Education, let me put it this way: when you're a teacher in a classroom, oftentimes you'll have a student who does something that might warrant sending him to the office to get yelled at by the principal. Except you know that sending the kid off every time he screws up doesn't do a thing for him in the long run; the principal doesn't know anything about him, and the student respects you a hell of a lot more than some faceless administrative entity. So you punish the kid on your own terms. Make him clean up the classroom, give him extra homework, talk to his parents, whatever. And you do this because you know that while technically that kind of punishment wasn't "correct," you made the right call, for a number of reasons.

Unfortunately for Jim Tressel, as much as he'd like to be one (and believe me, I understand the desire), he's not a classroom teacher. He was the coach of an incredibly popular and visible college football program in the year 2011, and the current climate dictates that every kid be sent to the principal.

Tressel's occasionally rocky relationship with the media is no secret. The constant push and pull between the press and Tressel was in part a result of his desire to only reveal as much as absolutely necessary, even when there was nothing to hide. The problem with this is that people talk, now more than ever. Twitter and Facebook and the internet in general has changed the way people disseminate information and rumors; a single picture of Terrelle Pryor standing in front of a nice car might never have surfaced 15 years ago. Combine that kind of flow of chatter with a press corps who already find it difficult to obtain information and you've got a perfect storm for an environment where each violation by a player, be it perceived or real, has a cumulative effect on how people view the program.

I don't know that Jim Tressel ever understood this, that the ability to control information and the direction of his program was no longer fully in his hands. Now, in a time where the NCAA seems to be going after teams like a blind man with a shotgun, there really isn't a whole lot that coaches can do to make sure that their team avoids looking down the barrel of a gun when their turn finally comes up. Except, of course, to be as honest and open and compliant as they can be.

The truth is that neither Terrelle Pryor or Jim Tressel are the Patron Saints of Hubris. I'm not going to become apoplectic about Tressel wanting to do right by his players, even if it was in a naive and outdated fashion. I'm also not going to act shocked by Terrelle Pryor and his other teammates' apparent attempt to milk the college football experience for as much as he thought he could. What both men have done was wrong, but in hindsight not surprising.

Ultimately, it's us. We're the Patron Saints of Hubris, because as fans we have been equivocating and making excuses for players and coaches who are less than compliant with NCAA rules. Are many of those rules completely asinine and need to be changed? Without a doubt. But a case for that change needs to be made, and every violation of NCAA rules strengthens the resolve of those who enforce them.

"Everyone is doing it" is not an argument, even if it's true. I find it extremely ironic that Pryor has been made fun of and vilified for this comment:

"Everyone does -- kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me."

When many Ohio State fans have made the same leap of logic in an attempt to explain transgressions by players and coaches. Just because what happened at Ohio State pales in comparison to agents infesting USC or Cam Newton's dad shopping him around the SEC does not make it any less of a big deal or the media any less justified in wanting to uncover as much as they can.

The culture of winks, wry smiles, and shrugs when it comes to talking about what kind of rules violations that players are involved in and the people who help facilitate them has to end. If we want the offseasons to stop being an 8 month game of Russian roulette, we have to demand better. Rules violations by players and coaches are never going to go away, but as fans we have the ability to make sure that we won't tolerate anything less than openness and honesty when it comes to our team.

68 Comments

Comments

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Agree on many levels.  However, there is simply NO JUSTIFICATION for the media barrage in this case, but not with USC and Auburn. 

The media did not seem interested in uncovering anything with Cam Newton--just took at face value his statement that he didnt know what his father was doing. I dont remember a single hard-hitting article about Pete Carroll's role in the USC situation (yeah, I know he went to the NFL, but pretty sure there are reporters and TV sets in Seattle). 

I hate what TP has done, but I can accept it for the reasons you stated.  I hate what Tressel has done, also for many of the same reasons you stated, but I can accept it. What I cannot accept however is the systematic destruction of one man's legacy by a media who have gone well beyond the scope of covering a major news story.  If they had been even 1/10 as voracious in either of the two examples I gave (could also throw Boise State in there too), I might give them a pass, but they didnt, so I cant and no one else should either.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

Denny's picture

No justification? There was plenty of media coverage of USC, and of Carroll jumping ship. Nothing definitive has come out of Auburn. Come on now. Blaming the media is deflecting.

Taquitos.

btalbert25's picture

I have to agree, USC got quite a bit of coverage, especially if you include the basketball problems they had too.  As much as we all like to think we know about Auburn, no one has ever come up with a smoking gun.  There's no cancelled checks or evidence.  Just verbal he said she said stuff.

We know Jim Tressel committed a major violation.  There's no doubt about it.  Not only did he commit the violation, he was so bad at cheating it was like he wanted to get caught.  Don't be pissed at the media for covering a major story.  To be sure Ohio State is probably the most or 2nd most powerful member of the NCAA, it's a huge story.  Even the SI article that has been used to expose Tressel acknowledges that he has done some very nice things.  This isn't about Jim Tressel the man though, it's about Jim Tressel the rule violator. 

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

So the media's coverage of this has been fair and is completely in line with the amount and ferocity of the coverage at USC?

Really?

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

Johnny Ginter's picture

the thing is that i dont think the coverage has to be proportional to the coverage of another schools' scandal to be considered "fair"

Denny's picture

Yes. If you're sitting down and comparing the amount of time or articles that cover your school vs. another, you've got a serious problem.

Ever notice that time *seems* to pass much more slowly when being subjected to how much you school screwed up? That could be part of your complaint.

Taquitos.

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Again, I am not talking about the amount of articles or press coverage, I am talking about the veracity of the media in this case.

If you can tell me that you feel the things that are being perpetuated in the media about the totality of JT's character are fair, you sir have the problem.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

dr green's picture

I get what you're saying, but I think you mean voracity and not veracity. Although, many of the stories can arguably be characterized by both terms.

jamikoons's picture

Amen.....I guess we have learned as long as your parents are the ones getting paid and not the athelte it is ok with the media and with the NCAA...of course we believe that Cam never knew anything about any of it...whatever!

This is a product of the media never liking Ohio State, listen to ESPN and the major networks they are always aming for Ohio State, they have the "yeah they are good but...." attitude. Well what would the media do IF and I say if because depending on how the season works out I believe Fickell should get a fair shake at the job. BUT if the almight Urban Myers gets the job what will the media say with an SEC coach in the Big Ten....because we all know or at least we are told by the media that the SEC is far superior to the Big Ten, it will be interesting to see if the ESPN announcers rip on their former co-worker.....that is if he can handle the pressure, if he were to get the job, the stress of college football took him down before, oh wait he is back, no he is gone!!!.....

Buckeyes for Life!

BuckeyeSki's picture

He got a text message from God telling him he was destined to coach the Buckeyes

Banned from BlackShoeDiaries since 2008. Crime: Slander/Defamation of Character Judgement: Guilty

Denny's picture

We all know G-d doesn't txt. He's big into Google Voice these days. Said something about the speech-to-text technology being 'better than those yahoos who transcribed his word into scripture'.

Taquitos.

btalbert25's picture

Seriously, there is no media conspiracy against the Buckeyes.  Sure Mark May hates Ohio State, but he's not representative of everyone else on the network.  In fact, people on that network pick Ohio State as one of the preseason BCS title game participants every year.  When Ohio State stunk up the field in 2 national title games and at USC, it made us see that yes they are very good for most of their competition but not as good as the best teams in America.  That really wasn't up for debate.  Not everything that has come out from ESPN the last 5 or 6 years about Ohio State has been negative. 

JIM TRESSEL BROKE THE RULES AND GOT CAUGHT.  ESPN didn't, fox sports didn't, and no other radio show, newspaper, or tv reporter broke the rules.  JIM TRESSEL DID.  If you are going to be pissed, be pissed at him.

DrewVA's picture

well said, sir!

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

No one said the word conspiracy but you. I AM pissed at Jim Tressel, but my comment is not about him.  It is an observation of the media's actions during this time.  There are countless examples of an overall general dislike for the Buckeye's on ESPN.  I would not have stopped watching the network a few years ago if not.  There is an overall general dislike at SI.com, again stopped giong to that site a few years ago. 

Oh and your right, EVERYTHING  that has come from those two places in the last 5-6 years has not been negative.  BUT THE MAJORITY HAS.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

cal3713's picture

Well, we shouldn't have gotten blown out in a national championship game after they started arguing over us being one of the best teams ever.  Then we shouldn't have gotten blown out in a national championship game in our next shot.  The media got on us because we were the top positive story for 2 years and blew it both times.  That's when this "negative bias" happened.  We've been working on national perception ever since, and now this happens right when they start considering us one of the top teams again??  No shit they're on our case.

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

I'll give you 2006, but no way the media was on our side for the 2007 game (pretty sure this is about the time the 0-9 stuff started revving up). Oh, and 2007 was NOT a blow-out.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

The media's conspiracy is to get cash and blowing this shit out of proportion is doing just that! How many hits did SI get that night? 11w was so slammed I couldn't hardly open the page. Money, making loads off of it, is what is behind this.

Johnny Ginter's picture

honestly my feeling is that even if the alabama media hadn't done any sort of reporting on the newtons, that doesn't influence what the columbus media or anyone else in the press corps should be doing at all.

reporters investigate and report. that's their job. if what they're coming out with is factual, getting mad at them for reporting it is weak as hell

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Again, not mad at the reporting, mad at the manner of the reporting.

Sorry, talking about rigging raffles from 1985 and branding it some kind of revelation that will sink the program is reckless and predudicial.   

Do you think the image that is being portrayed in the media of who Jim Tressel is, is an accurate depiction of his character (again, not talking about what he did--that is a separate issue)?

I would feel differently if someone outside of Buckeye Nation were writing Ramzy-esque articles.  Hell, I'd be happy with a 3:1 negative to positive ratio.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

Johnny Ginter's picture

no, i agree with you on this point, and that's something to be mad about. major media outlets don't have a lot of time for nuance, and yeah, that's a problem, especially when it comes to something like this.

on the other hand, that's basically an indictment of the entire concept of the 24/7 news media. it sucks (and the SI piece was not that well done), but being negatively portrayed in the media isnt what got tressel fired

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Then what got him fired? After admitting to the "lie" or whatever you want to call it, I'm pretty sure that Gee and Smith said Tress was safe at the press conference...

The only thing that has changed has been the onslaught of media badmouthing Tress and OSU.

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

I think we will know soon enough what really got him fired.  I think tOSU knows a lot more has become known regarding equipment from the WHAC and such.  Maybe the SI article scared them a bit thinking Dorhmann had more than he did. 

I can say this tho.  If there is NOTHING else that comes out, some body will have some 'splain'in to do when it comes to why JT resigned.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

cal3713's picture

I know this feels like a special, unique case, but remember that stat about all the other coaches who committed the same major NCAA voilation Tressel did, and 95% of them lost their job?  Unfortunately, this is par for the course for Tressel's act...

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

Did those other schools hold a press conference to show their support for those coaches?  Did they continually pledge their support in the press?

That is why this is special.  And I DO mean in a short-bus kinda way.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

Buckeye_Mafia's picture

Still sad. Tressel was a good man, a great coach, and helped take a lot of kids (troubled or not) to bigger and better things. Regardless of his and his player's violations, the barrage of negativity being shot at him and the program are beyond warranted and necessary.

Adolphus Washington is half grizzly bear and half dragon | Noah Spence kills quarterbacks, just to watch them die.

btalbert25's picture

There are a lot of high profile coaches who were made to be villains when they ultimately were forced to leave their program.  Many did great things for the university, players, and fans.  It always is a little more than deserved I guess, but it still doesn't discount that fact that he cheated.  I loved Tressel, but he had to go.  It sucks.

I doubt this was the first time he lied or covered up something for the sake of a program he was coaching.  When you spend a long career preaching about values and doing the right thing, and then you do something like this, you are going to get a lot of heat and deservedly so.  I don't think anyone has really called into question that he's done many great things.  They just question, what he the clean cut by the book guy we all thought?  The answer to that is quite obviously no.

bcWEcouldn'tGOfor3's picture

I don't think the negativity would be as bad had Tressel not preached about having all this integrity and discipline.  Then he stands behind the Tat5 and makes them sign a document stating they would be returning.

The higher you hold yourself up...the farther the fall if/when you make a mistake.

Bundrew's picture

Um...

"His intentions weren't entirely pure, but I truly think that Tressel felt that his methods were for the overall benefit of his players, by protecting them from punishment from a faceless and uncaring entity and by allowing him to teach them the kind of lesson he felt was appropriate."

What exactly did Tressel do "teach" the Tat5 a "lesson?"  What "methods" did he use?  So far as I can tell, Tressel did nothing to intervene to stop his players from continuing to receive improper benefits after he learned about this mess in April 2010 (except, of course, forward a Cicero email to Pryor's "mentor"). 

Johnny Ginter's picture

i was speaking in general, and the fact that you don't know any of what tress did in response to those e-mails is kind of my point

Bundrew's picture

I think Tress doesn't exactly get the benefit of the doubt at this point. Absent evidence, I would not assume he was a behind-the-scenes disciplinarian in this case.

OHIOinME's picture

Well I'd say the 500 word essay the YSU Qb had to write,as mention in the SI piece, is proof. Also reading and listening to media reports the past 10 years Treesel would only comment that a certain player knows what he needs to do to get out of his dog house. Tressel and other coaches would always mention this doing extra stuff for "violating Team rules" Thed refer to steps the plays have to take etc.

Bundrew's picture

I think this is a fair point.  A couple of things though:

(1) If Tressel did impose discipline on the Tat5 behind-the-scenes, it certainly didn't include loss of playing time.  This seems pretty soft in light of what Tress learned from Cicero / the U.S. Attorney's Office;

(2) If Tressel did impose discpline on the Tat5 behind-the-scenes, one would think he / the University would have mentioned this mitigating fact at some point during the last several months.  Their silence on this point seems to indicate there was no in-house discipline in this case.

OHIOinME's picture

Well to Tressel's argument, he said the kids didn't lose playing time because he didn't want the "criminals" involved in the federal investigation to close their loose ends.  He says he was protecting his players from the criminals and didn't want to compromise the federal investigation.  That is if you believe his argument.

Regarding the discipline, I can't say if Tressel actually did anything regarding disciplining the players besides making them sign a promise to come back for the following season and take their 5 game suspension.  Throughout the spring, summer and the football season, I figure that Tressel knew the players were going to be eventually punished by the school or the NCAA because Pryor and Pose were mentioned in the email.  There is no way in hell a federal investigation involving 2 prominent Ohio State football players was not going to be made public at some point.  Tressel may not of known about the other players involved in tattgate since they weren't mentioned in the email.  Also, we may not have heard of any punishment (if thee was any) because Tressel is still being investigated.  It sounds like any actions taken by Tressel in response to the email he received would probably be part of the investigation and therefore shouldn't be made public. 

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

When I was in the Marines I got handed some shitty jobs when I broke the rules. Didn't go on my record but I stopped messing up....

OHIOinME's picture

See it worked for you.  The public didn't know you got into trouble until you told us and we still don't know what you did.  Besides some people need several mistakes to learn.  And then as you know there is the nasty 10%.  Those shitbags never learn and continued to get into trouble. 

Also we must remember, tattgate happened a few years ago, Officially.  We'll see if anything else recently mentioned can be proven (i.e. cars, more tattoos, more money and weed).

Bundrew's picture

Re: "Tressel's argument" -- He could have suspended the players for a generic "violation of team rules" without any reference to the federal investigation.  His argument was pretty clearly a post hoc justification.

Re: Discipline -- When the school self-reported Tress' violations to the NCAA, this document was made public and did not mention any internal discipline.  If there had been any, the University seemingly would have mentioned it; it would have been a good fact for Tress. 

btalbert25's picture

Plus, anything about the YSU stuff is irrelevant.  The QB came out and said he never talked to Dorhman and everything about him in the story was basically BS.  I'm not saying he didn't do stuff like this behind the scenes, but if you find out players did something that made them inelligible, a 500 word essay is hardly adequate punishment for the crime.

OHIOinME's picture

The 500 word essay was for a speeding ticket.  I'm not going to argue if it was actually done or nor or if it was adequate.  You and I are not the judge of that.  Besides, speeding tickets get waived all the time, even reckless driving tickets get waive with a drivers safety classes.  It's isn't really that big a deal.

OHIOinME's picture

Well if Tressel was teaching lessons or using alternative methods for discipline we wouldn't know.  Some of the football players may not know either.  That is the whole point of doing this, to keep it under the radar.  We did this in the Marines, so to avoid the CO having to get involved on petty sh*t and getting negative marks getting put on a young Marines record and my wife does this as a special edu. teacher.  Knowing when and how you can protect your troops the tricky part.  It's a balance.  It's knowing what battles to pick.  Most to all good leaders and mentors do this.   I hope this is Tressel's way vs. a blatant disregard of NCAA rules.  In either case he got in over his head.

 

bcWEcouldn'tGOfor3's picture

Where is Pryor getting the money to pay a Lawyer?

LAWYERGATE!

NW Buckeye's picture

If I were a lawyer I would be happy to represent TP on a contingency basis for this. Talk about deep pockets - SI would be a pretty interesting target. And, the right atty could make a great defamation case if even 1 thing was awry in the article. And, players are now coming out of the woodwork to refute their claims. A hungry atty could really make some bucks.

bcWEcouldn'tGOfor3's picture

Does anyone see a drastic change in Athletic Departments across the country after the USC and OSU scandals? 

Will there be more questions regarding athlete's vehicles, tatoos, clothing and accessories? 

Will compliance office's grow to have a greater impact on policing violations?

Denny's picture

Jay Bilas had a tweet yesterday equating the inevitable rise of compliance/air of skepticism surrounding student-athletes to the security theater going on with the TSA. It's a pretty apt comparison IMO.

Taquitos.

Buckeye_Mafia's picture

The institutions don't need to change. The NCAA does. They are the dinosaurs that continue to stumble along w/their extinct rules and regulations while the rest of the world has evolved.

Adolphus Washington is half grizzly bear and half dragon | Noah Spence kills quarterbacks, just to watch them die.

BuckeyeChris's picture

I am not an "IT guy," but couldn't IT set things up such that (going forward) any email sent to any head coach is automatically copied to Compliance? Just a random, drastic thought. 

 

Rooster Buckburn's picture

that actually sounds like a great idea.  In this age of lightning quick electronic communications, something like you are suggesting would provide some nice accountability for a coach.

Denny's picture

Hooray NCAA Patriot Act! Shall we call it the 'Amateur Act'?

Taquitos.

Scott K's picture

LOVE the "Luke Head" on the banner guys...

"There's a fine line between stupid, and....clever.  David St. Hubbins/Nigel Tufnel

Buckeye in Athens's picture

Yeah, good work guys. I lol'd pretty hard. 

NC_Buckeye's picture

John Porentas from the ozone interviewed Andy Geiger for his take on the Tressel situation. It's worth the read.

http://www.the-ozone.net/football/2011/Tresselaffair/geigerpiece_1.html

Quotes from Geiger:

"He is, in my view far more than a football coach. He is in many ways a mentor, and would try to correct the problem from within and rectify the situation rather than have it become a 'cause celebre'. That fact is at once admirable, and (at the same time) the wrong thing to do."

"What happened in my view from 40,000 feet away, as you know, I'm not there, I'm 3,000 miles away, but what happened was it became in the world of college football, in the instant news cycle and non-stop kind of look at these kind of things, it became paralyzing.

"It became a situation from which they couldn't extricate themselves and Jim became the absolute focus. I don't think The University could effectively move on with him in the chair as football coach."

BTW, Geiger is living in the state of Washington and sounds really happy to be there.

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Just saw that Simon is suing SI...

So much for fair media coverage......DERP

BuckeyeChief's picture

Wow. Good for him.

Funny story:

I didn't get promoted, and was kind of bummed yesterday. My kid says to me "Rough week dad; Macho Man dies, Jim Tressel gets fired, and you didn't make Senior Chief".

Awesome. I am taking Speil's advice though.

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

What's Speil's advice Chief?

BuckeyeChief's picture

"Sit in the corner and cry or come out swinging"

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

RBuck's picture

Hey Chief, did you moderate your own signature?

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

JakeBuckeye's picture

That is awesome for both him and Klein.

Imagine if this gets turned around on the media.

NC_Buckeye's picture

And there is a second part to the interview. Andy talks about how the Athletic Dept and compliance and what he thinks happened.

http://www.the-ozone.net/football/2011/Tresselaffair/geigerpiece_2.html

Quotes from Geiger:

"I do not think that there was any laxity, or any corruption or any of those kinds of things that are officially part of what has taken place. I never experienced that, I never believed it and I will take it to my grave that these are basically very good people who are doing their best to try and do it the right way. It certainly is within the instructional ethic and culture to try and do it the right way."

"There isn't anything much more complex about this. They can dig and dig and dig and dig all that they want to, but they're not going to find intentional instructional corruption, or even not paying attention, as part of this. They do pay attention," Geiger said.

 

 

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Storm's suing too......wow. Good job media....

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

My apologies for going off path, but anyone heading to Phish in Detroit tomorrow?

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

Just to clarify, I don't need a ride or tickets or anything.  Just would like to put a face to some of the names on here.  Holla a hearty O-H and I will follow the beautiful sound with scotch in hand.

AngelHeartsBuckeyes's picture

This is how I know ESPN hates us.  Click their link to the Storm Klein article.  Read the name of the video "Storm Klein's theatens action."  There is a video commercial and then a two minute segment on....wait for it.....TP and his mother meeting with the NCAA. 

NOT ONE TIME DID THEY MENTION STORM KLEIN!

The article however is about why he may have to sue a member of the esteemed media.

So lets just make sure that when there is an article which REFUTES that abmonation of journalism in SI, there is something negative playing in the background. You know, in case highly emotional fans such as myself might just not want to hear all that shit.

....or it could be a mistake and they just linked the wrong video to the story.  Either one.

Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.

euge.choi's picture

To be fair, ESPN has been playing related video stories in succession along with articles. (since Storm's news was a short one, a related video wasn't in created), so TP's video happen to be on top of the list, it was either that or probably the tress-related stories.

Although I do agree with the notion of 'HATE' provided by ESPN, or the national media; I think Knowing my first statement, it shows that this particular case wasn't a hate campaign by ESPN, yet people are quick to jump up on it.

It's mentality like this that lead us to kick Herbie out of the heart of Buckeye nation, and it's mentality like this is what keeps our heads in the dumps.

 

Keep your head up Bucks, the conspiracy isn't as bad as you think, and we're not even close to being done. You have to believe that Coach Hayes still smiles down on us.

 

JakeBuckeye's picture

I am sorry Angel, but this comment makes you look silly. It was neither a mistake nor a hate campaign towards us.

Denny's picture

If you keep looking for it, you're going to go insane. Just chill out.

If you don't, pretty soon you'll be running around screaming 'Who cares about ESPN anyway? Van Pelt has only one look, for Christ's sake! Blue Steel? Ferrari? Le Tigra? They're the same face! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I created lots of media conspiracies, I created them! What have you done, Derek? You've done nothing! NOTHIIIING!'

Taquitos.