Is Tresselball dead in 2009?Saturday's loss upset me more than any sporting event since the 98 MSU defeat. Florida in '07 left me in a state of shock, I didn't think we'd pull out the game with LSU (and their second quarter killed any early hopes), losing to USC last year was numbing and the heartbreaker against the Longhorns actually encouraged me (if we're being frank). But Saturday, oh boy.
Others appear to share the frustration because for the first time in James Patrick Tressel's nine years in Columbus, he's facing some significant heat. Websites advocating Tressel's removal are starting to pop up, as asinine as that sounds -- but more incredibly, fans are starting to seek them out.
Tressel is taking hits from several corners right now, but perhaps the heaviest blow came from a Chris Brown article that appeared on Yahoo! Monday. Entitled "Deconstruting: The grisly demise of 'Tressel Ball'", it was discussed in great detail around here as well as other parts of the web, so I won't go into too many details (if you haven't read it, do so, like now), but I did want to highlight a couple of points.
His first point of contention is the failure to check off to the slot receiver with a huge cushion:
Indeed, the overrated Senator Sweatervest essentially gave away one of his most important tactical advantages by not understanding the concept of constraint plays. Routinely, the Buckeyes lined up with two or three receivers. USC managed to play their preferred two-deep defense much of the game, which should have meant that OSU had a favorable box to run in. Except OSU forgot to make USC care whether it had its receivers split out.
USC literally lined no one up over the slot receivers, and yet not once did Tressel instruct Pryor to immediately take the snap and throw the bubble screen. For most teams this is an automatic check or sight-adjustment, and it is by no means difficult (every high school runs it). Unless you force the defense to care that you are spreading the field, then all you're doing is hurting yourself; Tressel would have been better keeping an extra fullback in the game. Thus the rushing results were obvious. In the diagram above, USC has only one safety back and eight guys in the box, compared to seven blockers for OSU, not counting Pryor. Tressel called an inside handoff that was stuffed -- USC had more guys than OSU could block.
The provided screenshot illustrates this in horrid detail and it's something we, like most of you, had problems with as well. Tressel can be guilty of sending in plays late at times and that leaves Pryor with little time to scan the coverage, checking to the correct play, but there were plenty of times when Pryor just didn't make the read. I have a very hard time believing that he's not coached to look at that, but if he is coached and he's still not doing it, that's on the coaches anyway.
Brown points out other things that have caused their share of heartburn in Ohio this week such as the poor clock management, the stubborn insistence on running Boom again and again and again on plays that are better suited for a Beanie Wells and Pryor's refusal to run out bootleg fakes on handoffs. Guilty, guilty and guilty. There are quite a few more solid, logical points in the piece as well.
While I greatly respect Chris Brown's knowledge and he has a track record of dropping football enlightenment on the masses, I can't help but take exception with some of the other points he made.
His contention that OSU telegraphed the bubble screen has some merit:
But when OSU wanted to go to the bubble screen, boy did you know it. OSU used the most idiotic formation, where they split one running back/slot out wide but kept him back at six yards deep in the backfield, where he was a threat to do nothing but run a bubble screen.
But when you consider the fact that the Buckeyes didn't throw that screen once all night and even used a pump fake on the play to setup the following sequence, which worked well enough to spring Dane on a slick 56 yard post:
Brown calls Mays' over pursuit "boneheaded" but we prefer to appreciate the fake and the fact that Tressel ran the bubble against the Trojans last year (one of the few teams that saw it from Ohio State).
Another point -- and this is just nitpicking -- but, Brown has the Buckeyes down for 2.7 yards per carry on the night, when they put up 2.9. Still meager and worthy of ridicule until you consider the fact that the Trojans, with their vaunted offensive line and stable of five-star running backs only picked up 3.0 yards per run. And that's on 40 tries. But that's an entirely different number than the one "that infected the rest of the simple-minded affair that the Buckeyes called a playbook". Make the argument that Carroll was protecting Barkley and he probably was, but I'll counter by saying Barkley might be more advanced than Pryor is as a pro-style quarterback. Getting the win has a way of flipping perceptions like that.
What surprised me the most about the piece was the general tone of it. I've been reading Chris' stuff for about a year now and he has always appeared to me as a well-reasoned, nuanced observer of this beautiful game that put expertise above snark. Completely professional in every sense of the word. But, "overrated Senator Sweatervest" isn't professional. That's Doyel or Mariotti talk, quite frankly. I don't know. Perhaps he's just as frustrated as the rest of us in seeing the Buckeyes snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I suppose I could be disappointed with the fact that Tressel wasn't given credit in the article for the other small wins he had offensively, like the utilization of Saine as a receiver in the third quarter, or a couple of other things, like the fact that USC has recruited like no other team this decade and maybe, just maybe the talent level on the Trojan defensive side of the ball had something to do with the Buckeye offense's showing (the proprietor of the site -- and another extremely sharp observer of college football -- puts a lot of stock into said ratings) or the the fact that when Mays went out of the game, Tressel went right over the top on a big gain to Posey. In fact, an alleged "insider" with a copy of the coaches tape, no less, posted a rebuttal making solid counterpoints to the analysis. But Brown's piece does make a lot of solid points that are worth evaluating and reflecting on.
So where does that leave us? Clearly, any talk of getting rid of Tressel is crazy, simple as that. I, along with most of you, think he needs to bring in a new offensive coordinator and turn over the playcalling/offensive game management to that new OC (or hand them over to Bollman for a stretch this year to see what he can do). We may get that wish, but we probably won't if the defiance Tressel showed at Tuesday's presser is any indication.
I continue to have a problem with Tressel's philosophy in that it leaves too little margin for error against the elite teams. His signature win at Ohio State, the double OT thriller against the Canes, was a whisker from being a defeat and this ofer-six run is frustrating on many levels. I think a lot of us would also love to see him drop the hammer on teams that have no business being on the same field as the Buckeyes, either. However, we have a guy that is great in the community, loved by his players and manages to beat 99% of the teams he's favored to do so. I'll take that for now.
Besides, as any good coach will tell you, you're only as good as their players. I still believe Pryor will emerge as a great college quarterback. Many seem to forget he just started his 11th game and only has about a year and a half under any type of what you might consider quality position guidance (though it wouldn't hurt to bring in a guy that has a little bit more experience in this realm than what the Buckeyes currently have). At around this time in his career, Vince Young was dropping a 12-0 decision against the Sooners and Mack Brown's job was on the line in Austin. Young, of course, would go on to finish 11-1 that season and would use a coming out party in the Rose Bowl against the Woverines as a springboard to his spectacular junior season.
So, let's continue to hope for small tweaks in the offensive gameplan and/or coaching staff, but let's also know the future looks pretty bright. After all, we're not hearing much about the lack of speed in the Big Ten this week, are we?
Comments
(stands up) *CLAP.....CLAP.....CLAP*
I've said it all along. Tressel can't be blamed for this loss. When your QB has a game like TP had, you are lucky to be in the game. Credit that to the best defensive performance I've seen in a long time.
Hind sight is 20-20 but, you would have to be blind to missed this. My 9 year old son pointed this play out as it happened. No question that JT is a solid head coach, excellent PR man, great recruiter and what OSU needs as a faceman. He is in need of an offensive coordinator that can develop a game plan and then call the plays accordingly. Not an offensive line coach that doubles as a coordinator. A REAL OFFENSIVE MIND!
With less moustache.....
USC Defense was going on their first reads all night long... A pump fake here and there, mix in a quick bubble screen or two when the slot was uncovered , TP would have had open receivers open all night. USC would have been forced to respect the pass, at that point Herron could have ripped them for big yardage on quick hitters.
All of this is beating a dead horse; I just hope the coaching staff learns from this event. They have a very good team that has room to improve, but it is definitely competitive nationally. Florida is the only real team that scares me.
lol! Made me smile, which has been tough to do this week!
Tressel must have lost or burned his Playbook from 2006... Or Troy Smith took it with him when he graduated.
Sanzenbacher: Slot receiver open before snap Saturday, but when OSU checked into a play, USC often rolled its coverage and caused problems
about 22 hours ago from web
From http://twitter.com/kgordonosu
I am interpreting this as USC would roll into coverage trying to catch TP checking the slot guy, yes?
What I'm thinking is he still has it, but doesn't trust TP enough. For obvious reasons.
i actually read his article this morning and almost had the mind to call for his firing as a columnist. how ignorant. it seems as though peopl across the country find a way to hate the buckeyes, it used to be the speed and the lack of talent when all the while we are putting more talent into the nfl than any other college team. now they have have nothing to write about except that it must be the coach and time has passed him by....... morons collin cowherd hit it on the money, maybe you all should listen to him talk about how good of a game jt called
A little off topic, but does anyone have a link to rewatch the game online? I was at a wedding and want to watch the whole thing. I know, I know. Why? I don't know. Morbid curiousity, I guess.
If Tressel wants to play sweatervest ball, then he needs to find a way to win a football game of this magnitude without having to trust TP entirely. In other words, it means coming up with stuff creatively. How about putting Joe Basuerman in the game on that goal line stand and TP as a TE only for Joe to toss it high and let TP's massive 6'6'' frame jump up and get it? How about some 5 wide with a receiver in motion end around to setup the option? What about the fake the Chargers used against the Raiders the other night to get their TD? The possibilities are endless and I KNOW Tress can do stuff like that but WILL HE? NO!
I'm assuming everyone's seen this painful image:
http://menofthescarletandgray....
I saw Saturday's game against USC as a step in the right direction for Ohio State
Sure SC was starting a true freshmen and they were playing in the horseshoe but considering where OSU finished the last few times they played big games I think Saturday's loss was something to build on.
USC should have no trouble maintaining at worst a top 5 position in the polls all season and as a result Ohio State's narrow loss will look pretty good by seasons end.
Is Tressel getting a lot of heat? Sure, but if just a couple of things would have gone differently in what was only a three point loss the entire blogosphere would be clamoring to say that Tressel's back and Buckeye nation would be patting themselves on the back as Ohio State not only slid into the top 5 but also put themselves in a position to write their ticket to the national championship game.
That dream scenario I just described doesn't happen overnight, but it nearly did.
I contend that Tressel is righting what was very close to being a completely derailed train.
It's sad that's even getting as much play as it is. The Good Doctor put it best that the "statute of limitations for whining about first half officiating errors is halftime, at most." It's Toledo week, y'all.
Herron's wasn't a TD either.
Only delusional fans would be calling a win with what was shown by OSU a step in the right direction. I like 99% of the nation including Mark May would say that they beat a crappy USC team using a freshman who didn't have a clue.
What happens this year when USC loses two more games? How will OSU look then?
Scary, isn't it?
Oh, I wasn't even going to complain about the refs - I assume they looked and just didn't see it, those calls are always tough. It just kind of sucks, and, to some degree, makes me even more impressed with how our defense held up over most of the game.
I am completely convinced we will not win another MNC with Tressel calling plays and/or devising offensive gameplans. I do not feel he has figured out how to use Pryor, nor do I feel his ego is willing to let him change. I love OSU and I would like Tressel to remain the face of the program, but his coaching style is best suited to capitalize on mistakes from lesser talented players that you normally find in HS, FCS or lower. I also do not think OSU will keep him long enough to either give in and hire an OC or learn enough about today's style of football to win. I truly hope I am wrong, but in the meantime I am sticking to this. Most importantly, we need to focus on Toledo. They are a powerful offensive team and if we are not prepared, things could get ALOT worse. GO BUCKS!
77 players from OSU have been put into the NFL since 2000. Most anyone should be able to win with the talent that comes through OSU. It's all being wasted.
And Jim Tressel has lost 20 games in 9 years at Ohio State. I think he's winning just a bit with it.
different talent level in 2006.
Go to FireJTressel.com if you want to talk about his shortcomings. He isnt going anywhere, so quit wasting web space with it. Can we move on and talk about the rest of the season, recruits that kind of stuff?
makes me sick
I second that!
At least the runner wasn't flipping while losing the ball and an OSU defender recovering it in the end zone...
That was bad. This was a close call, that might have been overturned with a challenge, nothing less.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/f...
If you did not know, your content (while specialized) is superior to Hinton's content. You dudes and EDSBS should get together and lobby Yahoo! to replace his trash site.
Against who?
This is a comment section for an article about Tressel's alleged shortcoming's? If this was a comment section for an article about the rest of the season and recruiting, then I would comment on that. Are you saying 11w is a waste of web space? Then go read Bucknuts or something.
I would ultimately like to see Tressel hire an offensive coordinator such as Chris Peterson from Boise State. (Just imagine what he could come up with for the athletes that this team has, honestly) It may be difficult to convince him to step down as a head coach and take up the position of Offensive Coordinator, however. Perhaps the allure of a highly prestigious school and maybe a clause that would grant him the head coaching job upon Tressel's retirement may be convincing. However, that may already be in the works with Fickell.
i still think we give pryor until next year. if he's not good by then, i'll call him bust.
Some people here on these forums only care about winning their nice tidy 10 games a year against YSU, Akron, Iowa and Northwestern.
Point out that we've lost 6 straight against top 10 teams and 3 straight BCS bowl games (which they love to point out that we "at least make") and they'll call you a negative nancy. And not a true fan. And why don't you go root for an SEC team while you're at it.
Maybe we just don't want to be fans that blindly follow a coach off the cliff. Sorry if that bothers you.
LOL.
i'd like an offensive coordinator from the B12 or (dare i say it?) the SEC
Top 25 teams. The Vest is 28-11, good for a 72% winning percentage, which puts him at 3rd best amongst active, statistically significant sample size possessing coaches behind only Urban Meyer (a 5% lead at 77%) and Pete Carroll (who is a complete outlier and unquestionably the best in his profession with an unheard of 82.5% winning percentage). Bob Stoops (70%), Les Miles (68%), et al. wish they had the formula for winning against quality opposition that The Vest has.
Giggity and Goo
I just wrote this letter to Matt Hinton, of “Dr Saturday” fame, over his most recent column about the Buckeyes . . . http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/f...
“Matt,
Your blog used to be a shining light. A fan of a small, irrelevant school who wrote about everything. That is why I knew you could be trusted. That is why I knew your columns could be relied on. That is why I knew you weren’t full of shit. And your great writing and analysis backed that up. Like I said in my comment, I have read your various blogs for around 5 years. I’ve always appreciated your point of view until now. I’ve been a loyal reader; check your logs, it was me who tipped you about Maurice Clarett’s blog.
That aside, I am extremely upset that you would write that Ohio State should have been “demoralized . . . and lost by thirty.” I won’t lie. I am one of the biggest OSU fans you will ever meet. But really, they lost a hard fought game by 3 points. Not by thirty. They held “4 first round draft choices” on USC’s line to 3 ypc. The Buckeye offense didn’t get it done. But our defense played lights out for 3.5 quarters, and our fans and band showed the country what CFB is all about. I am proud of my team, and for you to denigrate them by saying that we should have lost by thirty is unconscionable.
This has been a pattern. You have been riding up OSU’s ass for a few weeks now. No one in the Ohio State community has been bitching about the goal line call. And yet you pretend that we have by writing about statutes of limitations and whining. We’re not whining. But we also won’t take your bullshit. That’s why I, and hopefully other OSU fans, won’t read your site anymore.
You are a hack. Your site has been on the decline for awhile now, and I certainly won’t be reading you again. What happened to the non-partisan, evenhanded writer you used to be? Working on the big stage too much for you? Had to cave to that MSM pressure of hating on the Buckeyes?
A former supporter signs off. Later, Hinton.
-Scott Baez”
I encourage all Buckeyes fans to tell him the same. The most prominent college football blogger does not deserve our page views.
That's BS. Those numbers are only if you count what the teams were ranked when they played, not the Final rankings after bowl games. How many times have we played a Big Ten team that's ranked like #17 or #22 or whatever and winds up with a 5 loss season and is unranked? Those "wins" aren't actually against a Top 25 team. Rankings during the season fluctuate wildly and shouldn't count for anything.
If you want to look at our record against teams that FINISHED in the Top 25, Tressel is 13-12 throughout his career and is 6-8 since 2005 (AP poll rankings).
Of course he's also 2-10 against the Top 10 teams, but you don't want to deal with that kind of truth.
I'd like to see some sources for your numbers, Damian, because they just don't add up.
Jim Tressel is one of the top 10 searches on Yahoo right now. How much you want to bet everyone is searching for firejimtressel.com and other such sites?
That was a great game and I was at the varsity club watching it and had to be the biggest group of a$$holes in any venue.
Okay, I'll admit the 2-10 came from my memory of that ESPN graphic they showed for the game, but I can't seem to find it. (anybody w/a screen shot?)
The rest of the numbers i went back to the records and counted up myself (so i have no life...)
But if u really want it broken down,
Top 10 Teams in Final AP poll, Tressel is actually 6-9 for his career and 2-7 since 2005 (maybe this was the number on the ESPN graphic? ...).
2001: 0-0
2002: 3-0
2003: 1-1
2004: 0-1
2005: 1-2
2006: 1-1
2007: 0-1
2008: 0-3
So he started out 4-2 and is 2-7 since
Top 25:
2001:1-1
2002:3-0
2003:2-1
2004:1-2
2005:1-2
2006:3-1
2007:2-2
2008:0-3
13-12 overall,
Started out 7-4 and 6-8 since 2005
So he's 6-8 against top 25 teams since 2005, 4-1 against teams ranked 11-25, but just 2-7 against teams that finished in the top 10,
And then there's the oft-mentioned 0-6 against the last 6 top 5 teams.
As the level of competition increases, his winning drastically decreases.
(All the Final AP Polls)
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.co...
(Our results in this time span)
http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scor...
Count it up yourself,
Actually 15-13 for his career (and it's not like the same doesn't go for all of the Pac 10, SEC, and Big XII opposition the aforementioned coaches play in the EXACT same scenario where they're ranked and wind up unranked) and 7-8 since '05. Not to mention 5-9 against end of season Top 10 opposition for the career, but you pretty clearly only want to deal with truthiness so have at it. Keep moving the goal posts to further your own agenda, I'm going to go ahead and enjoy watching Ohio State win a 5th consecutive Big Ten championship and handle USC or Cal in the Rose Bowl, thanks.
2001:
#12. Illinois L (22-34)
#20. Michigan W (26-20)
#13. South Carolina L (28-31)
1-2
2002:
#10. Washington State W (25-7)
#16. Penn State W (13-7)
#9.Michigan W (14-9)
#2.Miami W (31-24)
4-0
2003:
#8. Iowa W (19-10)
#5. Michigan L (21-35)
#14. Kansas State (35-28)
2-1
2004:
#17. Wisconsin L (13-24)
#8. Iowa L (7-33)
#14. Michigan W (37-21)
1-2
2005:
#1. Texas L (22-25)
#3. Penn State L (10-17)
#9. Notre Dame W (34-20)
1-2
2006:
#13. Texas W (24-7)
#24. Penn State W (28-6)
#8. Michigan W (42-39)
#1. Florida L (14-41)
3-1
2007:
#24. Wisconsin W (14-3)
#20. Illinois L (21-28)
#18. Michigan W (14-3)
#1. LSU (24-38)
2-2
2008:
#3. USC L (3-35)
#24. Michigan St W (42-7)
#8. Penn State L (6-13)
#4. Texas L (21-24)
1-3
15-13. Thanks for playing.
Great quote from the Senator about your whiny e-mails:
"When I read some of them I feel terrible for them because there's no way they're happy," he said. "They've got to be some of the most unhappy people in the world, and I feel bad because we just made them less happy, and I hate to be a part of making someone less happy. I mean, they're already miserable."
ALREADY MISERABLE! Y'all must be as repulsed by this as you were by Rich Rod's "Get a Life" quote. I'm sure you'll say it's different, can't wait to hear why...
None of the 15 wins, except Miami, were elite teams that finished by beating someone in a BCS bowl.
If you limit "elite teams" to "teams that won BCS bowls", you'd find Tressel in the same company as Saban, Stoops, Brown and Carroll.
Great point. Seeing as how evidently Michigan isn't an elite team and assuming Penn State fits your criterion (which is doubtful), Pete Carroll is just 2-1 for his career against elite opposition. Talk about overrated. If only that guy ever played anyone.
Glad you had a sh*tty time...told you not to bother.
And just want to be clear, the sarcasm isn't directed personally towards any of y'all, more my frustration towards the way the fan base as a whole has been behaving this last week. What "saying 11W has sold out" is to Jason, using "revisionist history to somehow paint the Tressel era as some kind of abject failure" is to me.
...so i was off by a few. sorry that I did the calculations on the back of an envelope ... but... 15-13 and 13-12 are damn similar aren't they?
15 wins / 28 games = 54%
13 wins / 25 games - 52%
what's your point?
You said he's 5-9 against end of the season top 10, I actually made a mistake and said 6-9.
He's still 2-7 against top 10 teams since 2005, by your own count. (W vs Notre Dame and W vs scUM , L vs Tex, PSU, UF, LSU, USC, PSU, TEX)
I'm not gonna waste any more time on this, but I'll be willing to bet if anyone would go through the trouble of looking up and compiling Carroll/ Meyer/ etc's stats against end of season Top 10 teams since 2005 it would be slightly better than 2-7.
If you idea of winning is beating the likes of Indian, YSU, etc... I guess. I would personally like to see some out of conference top 10 opponents fall. Tell me, would you be comfortable talking smack to a PAC-10 or SEC fan right now?
Oh, terrific! Since Carroll, Meyer et al. are "slightly better" vs. top-10 teams, we should fire Jim Tressel. All science trembles before the searing logic of your fiery intellect.
That's funny, I thought all the classless Trojan fans in the 'Shoe were the biggest group of @$$holes I've seen in any venue.
Gotta love the slow clap.
Well done, sir.
I guess I am now with the others that are ready to move on and have a great year. We can win the B10, beat Michy and their slack-jawed coach, and compete in another BCS game - or even a cap one bowl against an SEC team
Lots to care about still - so, I'm over the fact we gave away the game. And the truth is, we did earn respect with the game. The author was right (was it Chris or Jason, I can't remember) you haven't heard that we don't have the athletes to compete, have you? This is directly attributable to not being blown out the last two prime-time games against elite opponents.
Why does Jim Tressel hate Ohio State football?!?!?!?!?!
Now that I got your attention, I don't really mean that. What I mean is that if OSU wins, Tresselball toppled the great Pete Carroll. Since we lost, omg Matt Barkley, omg Pete Carroll, boo Buckeyes.
Nothing is going to change, it never will. Should the Buckeyes find a real OC or a QB coach that can give his opinions? Sure. Why do it? What's the reward? Are people going to stop going to games, are we gonna stop getting into the BCS (partially because of the beauty of the fans u saw saturday night)? No.
Tressel has no problem airing it out and having fun when it's a cupcake, even though that's become less and less common. I don't remember the last OSU team when everything was working really well.
Personally, Buckeye football has become, dare I say it, boring. It's not fun to watch. It's not going to change. When things get tough, Jim Tressel is going to pull the guard and try to run it for 3 quarters of football.
There was a story about how Tressel ran the same play (back at YSU) 6 straight times when the AD called down and asked if he had any plays in the playbook. He said he does and he will use them when they stop that one. The problem is that he keeps going back to the plays that aren't working. It's honestly...strange.
Hey Ryan B. you might be overlooking certain key points in all of this such as JT tying TP's hands by not showcasing his star players best gifts in not calling plays that his QB excels at. Try reading the Chris Brown article over again to see what I mean. Unfortunately the fact also is becoming clear that maybe TP should have gone to dare I say Michigan to be showcased properly. I get the feeling I'd rather see Joe B. scrambling around hitting TP deep as a WR. Either that or see JT go to a form of the spread he's used before but JT kinda made a deal with the devil and he's paying for it....stupid move by a desperate man.
So only good offense is exciting? I'm sorry, I *love* 13-10 defensive masterpieces. No one calls the Steelers-Ravens game in the NFL boring, they call it the best rivalry going on right now.
Ken Gordon's tweeted that Siciliano says not to count out Pryor just yet...
how can it be a masterpiece when the buckeyes are on the losing side of the artwork...
"Instant Classics" suck when you're on the losing end...
05 Texas, 09 Texas, 09 USC.
I agree. I'm watching the game right now on B10network and on the drive when we had 1st and goal within the five (7-7 game), Pryor looks like he's going to roll right, but then fires one too fast to Ballard in the back of the end zone. On 2nd and goal, we line up in the I, put Ballard in motion from left to right and run Boom to the left, which looked at first as though he got in. On third and goal from the one, we run the identical play from the identical formation with even worse results. Of course we settle for a FG and go up 10-7.
Regardless of Pryor making correct reads or not, why not spread the field and open up the opportunity of a Pryor run if the first read isn't there. I don't claim to know more about the x's and o's than anyone on staff (and neither should you) but does it not make sense to spread the entire field, considering Pryor is "virtually untackleble" (as Carroll put it)?
Hey what about the Rocket chances saturday? JT this JT that... lets talk Rocket Football. It's not like a Rocket win will put a knife in Tressel's Big Ten run but it will piss every Bucknut off to no end. Hell, Tressel's won't announce his retirement till after the Michigan game anyway. The Rocket's know they need to kick a dying dog while he's down. We are encouraged by a 6-6 2004 Marshall team (24-21) even a 4-8 2008 Ohio team (26-14) ...remember how JT always sent M. Wells up the middle (the Florida scat back who ran up over 2000 High School yards wasted at OSU) JT never used his talent properly on the wing. Pathetic but it gives the Rockets reason to think they can win as long as Tressel is play calling. How bout that 2003 game against BG (24-17).
Rockets are gamblers, full of surprises, hell they spend a lot of their free time in Detroit casinos. Can ya hear Cleveland Stadium 4th quarter... O-h-N-o!!!
You are the worst troll to have ever trolled, and I say that with love.
At least OSU beats Indian(sp), YSU, etc. The mighty SC loses to a lesser opponent almost every year. You would all be stringing the mighty Pete Carroll up to. Fuck all of you who think we should stick with JT as settling but if you think we will win a NC every year you are delusional. Florida hasn't done it, USC, Texas USC have n0t done it either.
Please forgive me as I do not mean to personaly attack any of you.
you guys are going too far with this. give it a rest.
'if' we should stick with JT... Sorry
I usually like what you say but relax dude.
Hey, you guys have a 6.8% chance of winning!
Keep waiting.
Why would Peterson take the demotion? He can just wait until a top tier job becomes available.
"Are people going to stop going to games, are we gonna stop getting into the BCS (partially because of the beauty of the fans u saw saturday night)?"
- Yea, slowly. It costs a lot of money to go to these games - especially bowl games. I know a lot of people that scalped their USC ticketes because they thought we would get blown out. I know more people that didn't go to the last bowl game because they figured it's not worth $2000-$3000 to watch your team get curb-stomped for 4 quarters. The Buckeyes eventually are going to stop getting rated so high because of their name recognition. Changes need to be made somewhere or else, like it or not, the heat is going to get much worse for Tress.
- I'm not advocating the Firing of Tress. I am advocating the hiring of a competent offensive coordinator (like everyone else it seems). I'm really suspicious of Nick Siciliano being hired. He's responsible for the development of the best QB we've ever had (potentially). I don't like what I see so far. Anyway, this is the last time I'm posting about this unless things go to hell. Toledo's going to get a beating like they've never had.
Siciliano? You mean the guy that has developed all of those great qbs?
I figure since the Heisman-winning, eye-black writing, Tebow went 9-4 in his sophomore season (including a loss to a mighty Michigan team that lost to App State, Oregon and the Bucks), we probably shouldn't count Pryor out yet.
Funny how Chris Brown fails to analyze that Florida/Michigan game. Chris also fails to mention Pete Carroll's and USC's loss to Stanford, which I would argue is one of the single greatest coaching failures of the past 20 years. My own personal opinion is that X's and O's are overrated in the college game. Recruiting, practice, and motivation are far more important (ask Charlie W). For all we know, Pryor get told to check off on the slot receiver every five minutes and yet doesn't, for whatever reason. Maybe one day he will; maybe he won't. Whatever. I mean, even if the Buck's go 0 and 11 I'm not about to go support some other team just because they win.
scary, are you guys high!!!
Crappy USC team... Hmmm.... When was the last time they produced
a crappy team?
They have 5 all american lineman, a stable of RB's, Best Saftey in
college football, more second string ESPN 150 recruits than anyone.
You guys are freaking stupid, why post on here???
Like USC sucks ??? Give me a break!
TP is in his sophmore year... He looked like it out there!
Tressell "I don't have to go there"
Defense played extremely well.
Get over it are you still going to be talking about this next week...
let it rest... WE PLAY TOLEDO!
I'm a bit more worried than you appear to be. If OSU's defense lets down their guard
just a litte bit, Toledo can put points on the board. They are a strong offensive team
Listen..... THE SKY IS FALLING..... THE SKY IS FALLING.....
pryor is going to be just fine, even if the best quarterback coach was coaching him it doesn't matter. No one can whisper to you on 1st and goal to not hurry a pass. That is something pryor is going to have to develop into. (Sophomore)
This horrible, dumb, sick of, tired of loss will help him grow into a great, dominant, respectable, calm under pressure, run with anger quarterback.
We need him to take as many reps as possible, bauserman doesn't need to see the field vs toledo... Pryor needs to get all the work he can!
So stop bashing the kid, he had a horrible game! He knows, i know it, you know it... SHUT UP and watch the kid torch teams the rest of the season.
If he doesn't then wine, and complain.
NEWS FLASH JUST IN.........................................
Even if pryor had the best QB coach doesn't mean he can walk out on the field with him, and whisper in his ear to make the right decisons. Check offs, seeing the coverages.
Pryor has to learn himself....!
He played horrible! I know it, you know it..... Give it rest!!!
If he doesn't torch teams the rest of the season then we can start the "SKY IF FALLING ROUTINE".
On a much brighter side...
Who did you like against navy, and trojans?
POSEY... Looked like a NFL wideout in the making.
DANE... realiable. (I swear he looks morelike a mini version of gonzalez)
SAINE... wait can i say it (it's about time) Kid is going to be outstanding the rest of this year. (convinced that tressel is going to start using him all the time)
CARTER... I want to see more (but he looked natural vs Navy.
Question marks??? will we see berry or hall???
Anyone on Sabino, Bell, or Corey Brown?
quit crying.... that did not lose the game....
It's called an opinion.
He, like you and I are entitled to one.
He is just paid to share his.
Agreed.
Damien, feel free to stop "wasting your time" with posting.
Quit drinking the get rid of Tressell Kool Aid - He is not going any place - every coach at OSU goes through this. Get off his case. Start being Buckeye fans again. How many National Championship games has Carrol won? 1 Urban Meyer is getting away with murder in Fla. Let the season play out. As I have said before Penn State will be our turning point.
Go play intramurals, brother. Or, go back to Detroit, stand on West Grand or Fenkell at Meyers and wait for a stray bullet to turn the lights out.
As for you judging the use of OSU's talent: what the hell would you know about talent? If I could go back and trade you MoWells in exchange for ceeding the city of Toledo back to Michigan, I would sign that deal in a heartbeat. Can I go back and give you Lydell Ross, Kenyon Rambo and any other talent that was "wasted". That's a great deal rocket guy, they would be the best recruits you ever got and would likely tear up the MAC for a bazzillion yards and lead you all the way to the papa johns bowl.
This guy is still on here...
LOL...
Listen even if i went to toledo i would not rep them in a football game.
let alone a college degree.
Esp... Coming off a loss to USC... Gibson, Heyward, rolle, spitler, and homan
are going to kill your quarterback.
This team is pissed... Sorry, but you don't have 5 all american huge lineman.
By the way go back, and watch the reply of the game still didn't stop us from
hurting "THE FAKE CHOSEN ONE"
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/...
Apparently you are missing the fact that Toledo leads the league in passing offense?
437 yards per game, versus TP's 417 yards COMBINED in two games.
And they threw for 67 times against Purdue. Tell me oh guru, what's the average number of times it will take to slip up on coverage to beat Tresselball?
OSU has scored a total of 40 points all season, Toledo is ranked 5th in the nation in total offense, their running back is averaging 6.4 yards per carry.
Do I think we'll lose? Not really, but that doesn't mean I can't be worried about it does it?
Anyone not worried about Toledo will suffer the same fate Michigan suffered last year, and Toledo was a lot worse last year!
Pretty sure this "demotion" would result in a bigger paycheck. I think it's reasonable to believe that an offensive coordinator at Ohio State could conceivably make more than the head coach at Boise St.
News flash!! Tressel is overrated. His record is a by-product of the talent that the program brings in every year. If he coached at Purdue or Indiana or Illinois his record would be around .500 and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
JMoriarty,
You're clueless. In 22 seasons Tressel has been to NINE national championship games and won five!!! Let me know when you find all the coaches who are not overrated who have a resume anywhere near this.
When Pete Carroll loses to Stanford, Oregon State, UCLA, etc. as 20+ point favorite is that because he's an overrated coach who would be .500 at Arizona State or Oregon?
What color is the sky in your world?
The truth hurts.
The sky is blue and so are buckeye fans after another Jim Tressel play call.
Do you know something about Urban Meyer the rest of us don't?
Take off the blinders guys. The coaches job is to get the most out of his talent. That has only happened (06') one year since JT got to OSU.
Some of you think Tressel walks on water. You don't have to be the son of god to understand you run the qb sneak from the one foot line.
Tressel can't be blamed for the loss? WTF game did you watch? Who didn't call a qb sneak from the one foot line? Who lines up Tp under center on a critical 3rd down play? Some of you will never get it.
they need to use the hate as fuel for the rest of the year. play angry every down.
http://www.cbssports.com/colle...
Weekend Watch List: If you turn on Tressel, turn in awards
Wow. It's been a long, long time since Dennis Dodd has produced a coherent thought, but he brought it hard that time. Nice article.
I am far from wanting to get rid of Tressel. I actually agree with the over reaction a lot of people had with this last game. However, This article pisses me off. Sports writers like Dodd have helped create this reaction. For years they have labeled Tressel as overrated. Now when fans are questioning Tressel and for the most part agreeing with perception that writers like Dodd help create, they chastise them. It is so ridiculously hypocritical. Dodd is not the only guilty one. So many sprots writers do this, they are as bad as political pundits. I wish they could just stick to writing something informative about the games. I could really care less about the opinion they have of the fans.
huh? dodd is/was/will be an idiot. this article is no different. its logic is ummm, underwhelming. you just give it two thumbs up bc you agree with his thesis and are tired of the backlash.
preach on brother!
Nice article? Total crock is more like it. Without doing the research, I'd be willing to bet he's written many an article bashing Tresselball and OSU as an overhyped, undeserving program that has backed into title games. Now that Tressel is taking some heat for losing his way, Dodd is up in arms at the fans? Funny.
Find one and I'll agree with you. Dodd's an idiot, but he's spot-on here.
Are you a fan of the article because it mirrors your own flop from doom and gloom to silver lining?
You have a long history of being a self-hating Buckeye, toadying it up with Wolverine fans and the like, so it's hard to get with your optimistic vibe all of a sudden.
A defense that was gashed by Navy, of all teams, held up for 3.5 quarters in a game that I honestly didn't think they stood a chance in. If that's not reason enough for optimism, I don't know what is.
That being said, my "doom and gloom" re: the Tressel/Carr comparison still stands. I'm just not sure it's happening as quickly as I had feared.
Here are some of the quotes you've made on this site in the past six months:
"It’s pretty easy to rack up the stats we do against offensive powerhouses like Iowa, Penn State under Morelli, Michigan State, so on and so forth."
"All of my optimism for the Terrelle Pryor era in Columbus is tempered because the Jims that aren’t named Tressel are still around."
"You’re lying to yourself if you wouldn’t trade the last five years of this program for the last five years at USC or the last three years at Florida. Meyer and Carroll win, and most of the accusations tossed their way about paid players and whatnot don’t even stick."
On Pryor: "4 in his first start, eight over the next eight games…. and none against Penn State, Texas, and USC."
And the list goes on. If you've changed your tune, I'm happy for you, but you have to understand why some might have a hard time just gracefully accepting you telling others to quit bitching when you have a two year history of it yourself.
OH MY SWEET GOD THANK YOU FOR FINALLY SAYING WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID FOR THESE PAST MANY MONTHS OF FIRST POGUE MAHONE AND THEN SAM INCESSANT SELF-HATING BUCKEYE MEME, 11W LEADER PWNAGE
Wow, that was spot on and needed to be said in these past many months/years of first pogue mahone then transition to sam incessant self-hating buckeye meme. 11W leader doth PWN.
I still agree with three out of those four statements; my primary reasoning for a "change of tune" is that Heacock is finally getting all he can out of his players. I'm just as pessimistic as I've always been with Bollman.
I don't get it. I'm a "self-hating" Buckeye because I think Meyer and Carroll are better coaches than Tress? The only better coaches than Tress?
That's fine. But you were cheering Dodd on calling out Buckeye fans for wanting to see some changes on offense.
JT has been great to us and we've been adamant that nobody that runs this site is calling for his head, but if you don't think changes are needed on offense, then I don't know what else I can say to you.
Oh, no, I agree completely. I've said multiple times the team needs some form of offensive innovation. But I took that article as more directed at those who wanted Tressel gone completely than those who simply want some staff changes. Perhaps that was my mistake.
If you put JT at Bowling Green, could he accomplish what he has at OSU? No.
If you put JT at Florida, could he accomplish what he has at OSU? Of course. The next step: Could another coach achieve at Florida what JT achieved at OSU? Obviously.
JT is neither necessary not sufficient for the level of success at a program Dodd is describing, including Ohio State. Dodd is right that people over-reacted. Outside of that, dude is an idiot sports writer.