Turner had no room to operate resulting in a season low four points. (AP: Robert K. O'Daniell)Though I was convinced tonight would result in a loss, I didn't expect Ohio State to roll over and die but that's exactly what happened as Illinois handed the Buckeyes a 67-49 beatdown tonight in Champaign.
How bad was it? Consider:
- The Buckeyes actually had more turnovers (20) than field goals (19).
- The guards (Hill, Buford, Diebler, Simmons, Offut) combined for 9 field goals against 11 turnovers.
- Ohio State shot 46% from the stripe (7/15) thanks to the 2/9 masonry from B.J. Mullens.
- Jon Diebler officially reclaimed his "Ghost" status failing to score more than seven points for the fourth time in five games. The Ghost didn't score his first points until 28 minutes into the game proving once again he's virtually incapable of creating his own shot.
Even with all that bad news, the Buckeyes actually clawed to 38-30 early in the second half before Illinois center Mark Tisdale started abusing the Ohio State front line scoring seven points during an 11-4 run that increased the lead to 49-34 with 14 minutes to play.
Matta's squad showed little heart the rest of the way hitting only six field goals including zero by leading scorer Evan Turner.
After reaching double figures in 15 straight games, Turner had his worst night of the season finishing with a season low four points on 2/7 shooting with two turnovers. He did manage 10 boards but was effectively taken out of the game by Bruce Weber's defense.
I'm rarely critical of Matta but it appeared Weber had the upper hand all night.
Offensively, Weber's squad repeatedly attacked the Buckeye zone getting the ball to the elbows with those players either shooting short jumpers or forcing a back line defender to help leaving the low block unattended time after time.
I also found it curious that Matta seemed reluctant to play Lauderdale and Mullens together for extended minutes until the game was out of reach even though Turner was constantly being over powered on the block by Tisdale and 6'10" Mike Davis (4/6 FG, 6 boards).
Though it was only for three minutes, I'm also puzzled by the fact Matta would have both P.J. Hill and Kyle Madsen in the game at the same time. All sarcasm aside, if you are struggling to score, why would you ever put those two on the floor together?
Weber, as you can bet the rest of the conference will mimic, exploited Ohio State's lack of a decent point guard by turning up the ball pressure on Simmons and Hill as they tried to initiate the offense. The approach helped create six turnovers and even when those two weren't showing their low level juco skills the entry passes were so far from the hoop that the offense could never sustain a flow.
Reaching for bright spots as I wrap up, Wil Buford scored 13 points, albeit on 5/14 shooting but he continues to show he's not afraid to try and make something happen offensively which is more than I can say for at least one supposed scorer on the roster. Buford actually kept Ohio State from getting blown out in the first half scoring 11 of the team's 26 points.
Even with the rough night from the line, Mullens managed a team high 14 points (6/8 FG) and seven rips though his lack of toughness inside influenced a team high four turnovers.
I guess the good news is Thad has plenty of teaching moments and the fact is Illinois is a pretty good team. They play better than the sum of their parts, they're physical and always tough at home.
With Sparty coming in Sunday, it'll take a much more spirited effort than we witnessed tonight to keep from getting embarrassed. Something tells me the Buckeyes will bounce back with the proper effort but I doubt they can pull the upset.
A loss would drop OSU to 3-4 in conference but they have two very winnable games after that with Michigan coming the Schott followed by a roadie at Indiana. Hang in there. It's a tough conference this year and we'd be foolish not to expect peaks and valleys with such a young and depleted roster.
Comments
Matta has brought a little national respect back to the program, but it is beginning to appear that his coaching star was just a fast meteor passing in the night.
I'm not ready to go that far yet but I think it's safe to say his recruiting prowess far surpasses his coaching prowess.
College basketball is in my opinion a very tough business to succeed in right now. With that being said, Matta is holding his own. By the end of the year this could be a sweet 16 team.
Lets have an entire class stay longer than one or two years then get back to me. Matta has basically had a new job every year for 3 years.
A little diversity would be nice from Thad something other than the 2-3 zone he has been running for his whole buckeye coaching career , yeah the same
2-3 zone that steve lavin picks apart everytime Ohio State is on Espn, how bout some man defense, all these great athleates and he wont let them use their athleticism...... and it seems like late they cant shoot freethrows deibler score 49.5 million points in high school and can hit a 30 foot three but cant shoot free throws.... i know everygame cant be perfect and you cant win them all but it is hard to win games when every team in the big ten knows how to beat your defense and forces your offense into driving the lane leaving their feet and shooting of balance layups and fade-away 3's just try something different thats all
Unfortunately for these guys, it's a preview for the rest of the year and for another berth into the NIT. It's not their fault they don't have a true point guard, and it's not their fault David Lighty is injured.
The good news is, I'm sure they'll suck it up and play hard the rest of the year and will be tough to beat in the NIT.
Very tough indeed when there are so many "one-n-done" players.
This is what you get from a young team. They can play with almost anybody but if something bad happens they force it and then it snowballs into a 18 point debacle. Thad is doing what he can but when your most experienced player is a junior college transfer he's trying to hold it to gether with chicken wire and bubble gum. Lighty would help, but what they really need is some experience. If they go .500 in the big ten they can make the tourney. They beat Notre Dame, Butler, and Miami. They took out Michigan on the road in a game that I thought they would lose. They need a few more road wins, playing at Northwestern and IU will help that, and they need to win the games at home they should win and they will be fine.
I learned last night NONE of these guys should talk about going pro. Mullens can't shoot at all and half the time he can't catch. Turner forces too much, and starts spinning around when the team is in trouble. They all need to stay and work on their game. Then maybe tOSU will have some stability.
How is Poopie Crater feeling now? PJ Hill is getting almost 15-20 minutes a game in Big Ten play, I could only assume that the majority of those minutes would be his, what a cry baby.
PJ Hill should be the starter. PJ earns playing time by not taking bad shots and playing good defense.
When will we start to play man to man? What are we afraid of? We have two 7 footers in the paint. We have the athletes. Scrap the zone and go man and maybe we can get some turnovers and get out on the break.
Buford is looking good and so is BJ when they get him the ball. He still needs to work on posting deeper in the paint but I like how he is getting better and better along with buford.
I felt like the refs let them bang our guys a bit too much especially turner who drew contact on almost every drive. Start hitting the post guy more often and it will open up the 3 point shot for us. Not really a big loss here and I feel like Ohio State is really the better team. Too many careless passes and the Illini had a very good night shooting the ball(49%). We need to bring the A game every night because the bigten is as deep as any league out there.
Don't get me started on the JUCO transfer. He sucks. He takes the worst shots Ive seen since butler. He plays weak defense on the ball. He can drive. Atleast you get some solid d from pj hill. Nice charge he took last night.
They will be fine tonight was a night when the offense didn't get off to a good start and Lighty would have been a big help. We miss his ability to get to the basket. He gets alot of guys open that way. Turner wasn't himself and buford alone wasn't enough. They will be fine they just need to move better without the ball and hit the post everytime down. Also Man to Man would be welcomed every now and then.
It's not like he lost a bunch of guys from last year's team. The trifecta left 2 years ago and he has not filled the void. I realize he was counting on Conley for at least 2, probably 4 years but when it became apparent in the middle of that season that he would be a lottery pick, he should have been beating the bushes for a new point guard.
It's hard to believe he would put all his eggs in the Noopy basket but that is what appears to have happened and that was a major mistake.
12 games remaining, and every game having long scoring droughts I only see 3 "for sure" wins. This team will struggle to make the tournament and, frankly, I don't think at this point they are a tournament team.
I guess we reap what we sow. Most of us were probably banging on OB for not going after 1 and done's. Perhaps now we know why.
PJ Hill has no offense. Diebler has no defense, and only has offense every other night. Only Buford and Turner can shoot free throws. And they give up way too many 3 balls. There is no leadership/experience on the team with Lighty hurt, and even with him, he was only half ready to fill that role this year.
If I had a "what-a-team-needs-to-suceed-in-the-tourney" checklist this team hits maybe one or two checks for having the ability to hit 3's (some nights anyway) and a 7 footer.
IF, and that's a big if, every that can returns for next year (which IMHO they all should, even Lighty), they will be a conference champion contender and an Elite Eight(TM) team.
For a while, it looked like Diebler was trying to start Club 35 Trillion. That guy is near worthless right now. He doesn't even try to shoot.
And Chris, thanks for pointing out the retardness of Madsen and PJ getting minutes at the same time. This is the second game in a row Matta's done that. When it happened against UM on saturday, I turned to my dad and said it was like Michigan was on a 5-on-3 power play.
"Matta has brought a little national respect back to the program, but it is beginning to appear that his coaching star was just a fast meteor passing in the night."
one of the most ridiculous things i have ever read in my entire life. what planet do you live on? this is ohio state basketball, not north carolina basketball or ohio state football. we have played in the national title game and won the post season NIT championship the last two seasons, and that is DAMN good considering where we were when thad (who is beyond rad) took over for OB.
seriously, wake up and smell the coffee. if you are upset with the play of thad mattas buckeyes, you havent been watching ohio state basketball for very long.
...completely and totally out of hound.
how many ohio state games have you guys watched this year - and be honest. the big ten is the second best conference in america, and we have three big time resume wins against miami (fl), butler, and notre dame. and saying we have only three wins left on our schedule is outrageous. have you looked at our schedule?
this team should be dancing in march. granted, anything can happen - but this team should be dancing in march.
Yeah, this team will dance in march. But it better get the act together by then or it will be an embarrassing first round loss.
Amen. I mean, can we at least try a man-to-man defense? Especially when they were flat out ABUSING us in the middle of our zone. I will take a possesion here or there, something to change it up a bit. This is D-1 basketball, hell D-3 basketball preaches defense, I know they have to up on the big stage as well...
Anyone noticed this stat? I am pretty sure we are 1-4 in NCAA Championship (Bball) games 1939,61, 62, 07, with 1945, 1968 and 1999 as other Final Four loses, so as far as elite for a long time, we've made it a lot more than the so called elite teams...Think about it, we have the most Final 4 Championship game losses, and the most #2 Final AP poll rankings in Football history (Followed by Notre Dame and Bama)...
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.c...
I agree with all the points made so far. I'll add that I think some of the players don't play tough or aggressive enough at times. Occasionally you'll see the bigs, Lauderdale/Mullens, play like bigs. Then there are times, most notably when they're down in a game, you'll see them play as if they're the last guy on the bench, always looking over their shoulders to see if they'll get yanked. Also, as much athleticism and potential as Mullens has his basketball IQ just doesn't seem to be all that great. Granted it could be because he's still learning as a freshman, but I just get the strong feeling that he just doesn't have it.
Turner and Lighty (before he got injured) seem like the only players who consistently aren't afraid to take it to the hole, draw some fouls and play tough. But like someone said before, Turner at times does tend to get lost as well when the team is losing. And we must not forget, Lighty was exceptional at taking charges on defense and hustling for loose balls. We really need him back.
Hill plays good tough defense, but isn't much of an offensive threat. Simmons is more miss than hit and often times not very aggressive with the ball, which in order to be a good PG you have to be. I think our team plays better with a more up-tempo style, but I don't think any of our PGs have the ability to push that kind of play.
Buford seems like he gets better each game and once he starts to become consistent, Thad Matta should really consider on how to use him and Turner together as the main focal point of the offense. Maybe more slashing/cutting and inside/outside with the bigs.
Then we have Diebler... one word... SOFT. I understand he's more of a perimeter player who likes to spot up and shoot, but you'd think the career points leader in Ohio HS history would be much more aggressive and have more confidence on offense. I've seen a few games where even on a fast break he's taking it to the rack like if he's in the WNBA and allowing the defender to catch up to make a play at the ball.
So yeah, this team needs more toughness and aggressive play.
Been watching them since the days of the Bellaire Bomber. That long enough?
I am not asking to be UNC or Duke, what I am asking is for a team consistantly in the top half of the Big 10. At this point, to finish 5th would be a good season.
I did not say they would win 3 more games.......I said there were 3 "for sure" wins, which leaves 9 games.
Of those 9 do you think they will win at Purdue, Iowa or Wisconsin?
That leaves 6. Northwestern on the road is not a lock because it is on the road.
That leaves 5. Mich St., Purdue, Minnesota and Illinois at home are no locks. If they go 2-2 in those games, they make the tourney.
Take off your Buckeye glasses and look at it objectively, not as an irate fan because someone has disrespected your team.
Interesting notes about PJ. I know you've been a fan of his, but I feel he had about his worst game this year and your trumpeting him being starter caliber. He doesn't take bad shots, because he has NO shot, which in turn leads to 4-on-5 on our offensive end.
Totally agree on the zone. Why can't we attempt man-to-man defense? We flat out got anally raped in the middle of our zone last night, and it wasn't pretty.
Buford was solid with his mid-range game. Boy can shoot! I think he fell in love with the arc a little too much though. Mullens better already be in the gym with about 250 FT's under his belt by 8am.
First game that ET really, really tried to force the game to him. He never got in the flow and didn't let it come to him. Seemed like he was trying to force EVERYTHING. Most of that goes to Ill's D.
I'm a basketball junkie so I've watched every game so far, and will also agree that WE WILL make the tournament this year.
If you look back at those big games that we've won, we've played really well and looked very good. It's just inconsistency along with other little problems that WE CAN fix.
finishing in the top five this season will get into the dance, and im not going to get into a pissing contest over predicting wins and losses.
and my lack of "buckeye glasses" is what gives me the ability to be excited about the direction of the program. multiple 20 win seasons. NCAA tournament births. an NIT championship. a national title game.
if that is being "irate", then i guess we differ on our personal definitions of that word.
I'm tired of everyone griping about Diebler. He plays within the system, as the coaches ask him to, and he must be doing a good job or Matta wouldn't be playing him 34 minutes a game. That was even before Lighty got hurt.
I agree that the problem is he's not taking enough shots BUT my take, from watching the games, is that he's doing that because the coaches have banged into his head to play within the system and his job is taking 3 pointers. AND DON'T BITCH ABOUT THAT! He's shooting almost 50% from 3-point range during Big Ten play. That's the best in the Big Ten for anyone shooting at least 2 3 pointers a game.
I don't think any of you really watch a game. We set crappy screens and the big guys and driving guards don't have a clue on how to pass a ball back out to a 3 point shooter. I probably counted at least 6 times when a big man had received a pass, and defenders moved in to guard them, that Diebler was just standing there, with no one near him for an open 3 pointer. NO PASSES OUT!
I think Matta and his coaches are great coaches BUT they have to figure out how to get Diebler open. This running him off of screeners and trying to shoot 3 pointers running 100 mph is for the birds.
The Big Ten coaches understand this or they wouldn't guard him as close as they do.
"Weber, as you can bet the rest of the conference will mimic, exploited Ohio State’s lack of a decent point guard by turning up the ball pressure on Simmons and Hill as they tried to initiate the offense."
This was the most disturbing thing I saw in last night's game. What happened to Turner bringing it up the court every once in awhile? I can't remember seeing it last night. Early in the year when our guards were being pressured it was a nice change of pace to have him do this. Not only does it get the offense going earlier in the shot clock, but also seems to get Turner into the right frame of mind. I love the fact that he likes to draw fouls and get to the rim, but with Weber's defense last night he needs to pull up for a short jumper or kick it back out before getting stuffed (or mugged) at the rim. He seems to play better when he is a distibutor early and a scorer late.
They will make the tourney and last night was a loss even if they played better. They have a few good resume wins and no bad losses at this point. Protect the home court will be key from here on out (although MSU will probably be a loss).
This type of loss happens on the road in conference play. As frustrating as it was to watch, it is the type of game that can re-focus a young team and give Thad plenty to teach.
I too wish they would show a different defense every now and then, but Lighty's absence is missed most on that side of the ball.
With all due respect to Tampa Buckeye and his lone membership of the PJ Hill fan club, neither one is doing the job and IMO is the main reason OSU struggles on offense. Simmons had a couple of decent games last week, but reverted back to his old ways last night (yes, he chucks up bad threes). As for PJ, his energy and hustle are great, but he can't shoot, dribble or make timely passes. His stat line form last night: 12 minutes, 0-1 shooting, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 3 turnovers, 1 charge taken. There is no leader at the point like Thad has had the last three years, neither one can effectively use the high screen/roll and neither one can penetrate. It is difficult to run set plays when your PG has trouble dribbling the ball to the 3-point line. The sad reality is, Crater screwed us and the JUCO transfers started their careers at that level for a reason.
With that said, the rest of the season may have games like this, but I still wouldn't trade Thad for anyone. This is a close knit, hard working team, who show signs of greatness, just not consistently enough. We can only hope this whole team comes back next year, we saw first hand last night in Illinois, what a team can do if that happens.
So we are national runner-up in 07, Nit Champs in 08, and have lost 4 games this year to good teams, plus wins against good teams and everyone on this board is acting like its the end of the world.
If we cant cover good ball movement in a zone then how the hell will man to man fix that?
This is the second year now since 07 that Thad has basically a new team, add that to losing your most experienced player and not having a true D1 PG, I think Matta is doing a HELL of a job.
This isnt football guys, you can go through dry spells and still have a quality season, consistency is what you look for and with all the changes this year alone, we've got a good team.
We will finish no less than fifth, and make the dance with a 7-10 seed. End of story.
I'm not freaking out. I'm just pointing out (probably obvious) weaknesses. Everyone should have known we would be in a transition/rebuilding year this year. We have all freshmen and sophomores. Then the only solid rock returner from last year gets hurt. I'm definately not calling for Thad's head. Thad is the man and I hope we lock him up for decades. I think we are exceeding expectations this year. I really hope they all come back next year and I have high hopes.
Its gonna be damn hard to not be in a transition year, one of the drawbacks of being a stud recruiter.
Well, there really isn't any other player behind Diebler to even take his minutes. Matta has no choice but to play him.
I highly doubt as "good" a shooter Diebler is (at times) that his sole job in the offense is to take 3s. Where's the midrange game? Plus, I don't think Matta would yank Diebler if he was being more aggressive and trying to at least create his own shots. He is one of our main offensive options and Matta would be happy for any kind of production out of him.
Plain and simple, Diebler is just not very good. Granted some of the other players aren't doing a good job of gettng him the ball, but I don't think anyone would say that Diebler could be a decent NBA player in the future. Some have it, some don't. He doesn't have it.
The guy has proved he can play, just give him some time to develop into DIV I college ball.. he has the talent and brains, he just needs to develop a bit more into the speed of the game..
I am far from ready to criticize Matta and his staff. 3 guys who were expected to be regular contributors have not been available. Lighty - hurt, Kecman suspended then hurt, and Crater - quit.
that's a significant amount of offensive and defensive fire power not available forcing the use of Hill, Madsen and Offutt and extra minutes and hence fatigue/pressure on the rest.
[...] match up between OSU and Illinois this season after the Illini took Ohio State behind the woodshed thrashing the Buckeyes 67-49 in Champaign on January [...]