The ‘08 Heisman Pack Is Forming
OSU’s 8th Heisman winner?
The Heisman Pundit recently published his top candidates for the 2008 award and he has Beanie Wells at the top of the list with Pat White at 2nd. Chris Huston, the former SID at USC that runs the site, thinks it’s Tebow’s to lose this season, but strangely doesn’t have him anywhere in his top 7 for next season.
It’s fair to have Beanie as a front-runner next season. Hell, he was banged up all year and could easily have about 1700 if he would have received the rock a little more (Washington, Northwestern and Kent State to name a few). He also has a huge opportunity for an early jump with the September battle in the Coliseum looming.
I’m not so sure I follow the logic of leaving Tebow out of the front of the pack in ‘08, though. A torn ACL is probably the only thing standing in the way of a 55-60 touchdown season for the jort king.
Is Tebow even a lock to win it this weekend?
Small programming note: I’m heading to Hawaii to get married this weekend and posting (at least the football half) may be a little light next week. Chris and Corey will be doing their thing on Buckeye hoops and you guys could probably persuade Mark to stop playing with his Matchbox cars long enough to throw up a football/BCS Championship nugget, so don’t change that dial.
Oh, here’s our registry if anyone would be so kind:
- OSU football season tickets
- OSU basketball season tickets
- This
Heismanpundit is leaving Tebow out due to his adherence to a set of rules he created, called “heismandments”. One of the Heismandments is that there will never again be a two-time winner. Because HP thinks Tebow will win this year, he believes it will be all but impossible for him to win again next year.
Yeah, I realize that. But another Heismandment states that only a junior or senior will win the award. Does he arbitrarily pick and choose which ones to adhere to?
for anyone experiencing football withdrawal and looking for a team to root for — as opposed to all the teams we’ve been rooting against the last few weeks — those plucky Appalachian State Mountaineers play their FCS semifinal match against Richmond Friday night at 8pm on ESPN2.
If Beanie stays healthy he has a great chance to win it next year.
This has nothing to do with next year’s Heisman, but is anyone else worried about the week long lay off for Ohio State (Dec. 19-26)? They reconvene only 12 days before the BCS game and that makes me nervous. I can only hope they don’t follow the Troy Smith diet during their Christmas break.
Congrats, Jason.
Shouldn’t you be going to Massachusetts to get married? That’s the only state where your marriage will be legal.
Jason,
Yes, Tebow’s a lock. Stiffarmtrophy.com has been predicting the winners for the past five years with accuracy ranging from +/- 1.5 to 4.0% based on the publicly announced ballots of voters across the country. This year Tebow leads by almost 20% with 209 voters reporting, which is way outside of SAT’s margin of error so he’s essentially a lock.
I’m not sure I agree with the Pundit on Tebow’s candidacy for next year. It did take a perfect storm for him to win it as a sophomore, and I do concede that winning it again will be unlikely simply because it’ll be hard for Tim to match what he’s done this year, again. But he’s a spectacular talent who’s gotten better with every game he’s played, and while the notion of him being appreciably better as a junior is almost a scary thought, it’s likely he will be better. So I think his name definitely has to be in the hat for ‘08.
This year, every other candidate fell by the wayside. Next year, it seems there will be fewer that need to fall away; Sam Bradford should be a frontrunner, but won’t be because of the soph thing, which sucks. Pundit rightly points out that Tebow winning it as a soph won’t make it easier for future underclassmen; if anything, it’ll make it harder, because look at the standard Tebow had to maintain in order to win the award. Being an excelling quarterback, tossing it for 30 TDs and a handful of picks as a soph simply isn’t going to get it done. Do that as a junior and it’s a possibility. Again, I’m not saying it’s right, but it is the reality.
As seniors I expect Chase Daniel and Pat White to get very strong consideration, especially if they have seasons like they did in ‘07. Percy Harvin is amazing, and might have been this year’s most outstanding player if you judge him based simply on his merits as a player — and obviously I want him to win it because he’s my boy — but he probably won’t because in Florida’s offense too many other players get a chance to carry the ball. The stats are good but not Heisman-like, but the play is definitely Heisman-like.
Colt McCoy will have to play a LOT better in ‘08 to have a shot in my view.
I guess Beanie Wells deserves consideration. I’m not opposed to him but he doesn’t excite me. It’s not an anti-Ohio State bias (at least I think not) but looking at his body of work I see a very good running back, but one who is a far cry from someone like Darren McFadden. Next year Ohio State’s schedule is considerably tougher with USC on the slate so if he has a big game against the Trojans and then plays well all year, I suppose he could be a legitimate top 3 finalist.
And that’s that.
Oh, and I forgot to say, congratulations on the wedding!
Congrats on the wedding Jason! …..and I hope your future wife gets her vision back!
Tebow defimitely has it locked up this year, but a lot of things change from one season to the next.
Thanks for the Appy St tip and congrats Jason. How much did it cost to pay her off?
Gatorpilot, I’m going to have to call you out and say that you do have some “anti-Ohio State†bias. You say Beanie is a far-cry from someone like Darren McFadden. Now I know McFadden did throw for a few touchdowns which DOES give him an edge….however, strictly on a tailback basis I have a hard time seeing how Beanie is a “far-cry†from McFadden….let me show you some stats. I’m going to use McFadden’s stats from last year when he was a sophomore compared with Beanie’s this year as a sophomore.
McFadden: Attempts 284 Yards 1647 Average per carry 5.8 TD’s 14
Wells: Attempts 254 Yards 1463 Average per carry 5.8 TD’s 14
Now remember, McFadden’s stats are over 14 games while Beanie’s are over 12.
That would mean that Beanie averaged 121.9 yards per game and 1.2 TD’s per game compared to McFadden’s 117.6 yards per game and 1.0 TD’s per game. This would actually point to Beanie being further along than McFadden was as a sophomore last year and definitely not a “far-cry†from him. If you throw in the fact that Beanie was playing hurt most of the year and due to that received only limited carries against some of our cupcake teams (i.e. 16 against Youngstown State, 12 against Northwestern, and 4 against Kent State) you can now see how your “anti-Ohio State†bias might be clouding your judgment.
Also remember that McFadden came in 2nd in the Heisman voting with those stats.
Good points Wil. Anyone who doesn’t have Beanie in the running for next year obviously hasn’t watched him perform. And he was running on a bad wheel all year long. Beanie has that rare combo of speed & power that NFL GM’s drool over. He reminds me of Jamaal Lewis when he played at Tenn. You never really see Beanie get stopped or go backwards after contact. He’s always going forward (Pushing the pile, spinning through tackles, or even leaning forward). Getting an extra few yards, or even a few feet, after contact is a beautiful thing.
By the way, congrats jason. I’ll give you words of advice that Harold gave me moments before my wedding….Run! Run while you still have a chance! Kidding…good luck & Aloha.
Congrats on the wedding! Tell Colt Brennan we say hi
Corey,
Good call; however, In-N-Out burger is not located in Lousiana. That was Troy’s food du jour while in Phoenix.
If they stick with some hot & spicy foods that should keep the metabolism revved up, not to mention the gastroentestinal tract.
Keep the fire burning!
This was on the Colin Cowherd show:
Former LSU/Indiana head coach Gerry DiNardo joins the show to try and defend the Big Ten and its an uphill battle!
He explains that if Ohio State and Illinois get off to good starts, they stand a chance at beating their competition.
He also compares Ohio State to last years Florida team, the supreme underdog!
Plus, he explains why the Big Ten will become the BEST conference in CFB in the next 3 years and why Les Miles isn’t a guarantee at LSU!
http://espnradio.espn.go.com/espnradio/show?showId=theherd
Congrats Jason and good luck to you both!
Beanie is all growns up and should be fun to watch next season. If he avoids any major injuries he should have a good chance to finish high in the voting. The fact that he ran his best against the tougher opponents gives him a great shot in my mind. The big games are always focused on for the Heisman. If he runs for 250 against Northwestern no one really cares. Do it against USC and he’s the next Jim Brown.
Wil,
McFadden missed games too. And to me it’s not just about the stats, although McFadden obviously has the edge there. If I do have a bias it is a reasonable one, in my view, in that Ohio State’s strength of schedule isn’t remotely close to Arkansas’ in either year. That isn’t so much opinion as it is an objective eval of both SOS’.
McFadden also shared a lot of carries with Felix Jones over both years.
I need to see Wells and Ohio State get rushing yards against good teams. Next year’s schedule gives “Beanie” the opportunity to do that. If he can run the ball against USC, he’ll have my full attention.
Gatorpilot,
Your obvious unobjective view skews your ability to see clearly. Then again, you would need to actually watch the games to make objective comparisons.
Either way, once you see Beanie run through and around the LSU defense you will understand that Beanie can man-up better than any other back in the country.
Easy there, Ronin. No need to get worked up. I watched all but two of Ohio State’s games this year.
Wells is a very nice running back. If he has a big game against LSU I’ll be the first to sing his praises. All you have to do is play some top competition and the matter will resolve itself. That’s the ultimate measure of objectivity.
By top competition, do you mean Western Kentucky, Troy, or Florida Atlantic? Or maybe Middle Tenn, Tulane, or Louisiana Tech?
I hope we run all day long against LSU. Boeckman passing always makes my heart skip a beat.
Careful, Mark, I believe Troy is on our sched next year. That’s one southern school not afraid to travel north of the Mason-Dixon.
Bowl matchups for the Big10 are never favorable but this year is probably the worst, as far as location…..tOSU in New Orleans vs. LSU….Michigan vs. Florida in Florida and Illinois in LA vs. USC.
That said……I still think we go 2-1 just like last year.
Mark,
Exactly! Only someone biased, that they can’t see through their skewed view would claim LSU has tougher competition for this years SOC.
I find it probable, that Kent State and Akron could beat most of these teams:
Western Kentucky, Troy, Florida Atlantic, Middle Tenn, Tulane, and Louisiana Tech, Louisiana-Monroe and a few others.
Youngstown State could give a few a run for their money as well.
Heck Tulane lost to Army and Akron beat Army.
Anyway, the basis for many to make these erroneous assumptions about the SEC and LSU SOC; is partly due, to flawed perceptions and analysis concerning the Florida - OSU game.
OSU was not ready mentally and they were not in top physical condition either. The play calling was suspect as well. Deviating from the run, when we had success running it. Florida was all about doing everything to win, and they came mentally and physically primed to play and win.
That was the difference, not speed.
The speed argument is an illusion, a fallacy.
That is why you have to watch the games and understand the level of play from each participant. Plus, have a semblance of knowing how the opponents competition is doing as well.
Watch the Bucks dismantle the Tigers in the Big Show!
Go Bucks!!!
Gatorpilot, let me put your objective opinion to rest with some cold hard facts. However, before I start allow me to say that this is not meant to sound negative towards Darren McFadden…..I personally believe he (closely edging out Tim Tebow) is the best player in College Football this year and will be outstanding in the pros. I am not comparing Beanie to McFadden this year, I am comparing Beanie’s stats this year to McFadden’s stats from last year, which would have been both of their sophomore years.
I noticed that you said McFadden has the clear edge in stats….if you believe that you may need to go back to grade school and take arithmetic again. For example:
McFadden: 117.6 yards per game, 1.0 TD’s per game, 5.8 carries per game, and 6 100 yard games.
Wells: 121.9 yards per game, 1.2 TD’s per game, 5.8 carries per game, and 8 100 yard games.
Please tell me which stats McFadden clearly has the advantage in, I can’t seem to them.
Now before you try and say that McFadden did it against tougher competition, lets take a look at the stats:
McFadden: 3 100 yard games against .500 or better teams and 3 100 yard games against less than .500 teams. 2 150 yard games against .500 or better teams 1 150 yard game against a less than .500 team. 1 200 yard game against a .500 of better team and 0 against less than .500 teams
Wells: 5 100 yard games against .500 or better teams and 3 100 yard games against less than .500 teams. 3 150 yard games against .500 or better teams and 0 against less than .500 teams. 2 200 yard games against .500 or better teams and 0 against less than .500 teams
McFadden’s best 3 games:
219 yards against 7-5 South Carolina
184 yards against 1-11 Utah State
182 yards against 10-2 LSU
Wells best 3 games:
222 yards against 8-4 Michigan
221 yards against 7-5 Michigan State
169 yards against 9-3 Wisconsin
Now as for strength of schedule, most analysts determine this by the combined winning percentage of your teams opponents removing the outcome of the match-up with your team. This being said would give Arkansas 2006 opponents a winning percentage (pre-bowl game to compare with this years pre bowl game a winning percentage) at 56% and Ohio States at 54%……closer than you thought I’m guessing.
So I guess what I am saying is: I have taken off my Big 10leven bias sunglasses and am giving Darren McFadden his credit……so have some class (and common sense) and take of your SEC bias sunglasses and give Beanie Wells his due credit.
Congrats on the wedding…thanks for keeping me coming back all season long. You and Kieth at Buckeye Commentary are the two best at what you do
O - H
And Gatorpilot, just because I was bored I went ahead and got the strength of schedules for you of last season after the bowl games…..The Ohio State University and Arkansas both had a strength of schedule of .59 ….however, OSU went 12-1 while Arkansas went 10-4.
I also got Arkansas’ strength of schedule for this year which was a .49…..thats right, their combined opponents had a losing record this year, while OSU’s opponents were at least over .500
However, I will give it to you that Florida’s strength of schedule was an astonishing .63 this year!
And I-O Jimbo!
Congratulations!
congrats!
Thanks guys. I appreciate it. But if I don’t have one of those iced-out Buckeye watches at my crib by the time I get home, I’m gonna be pissed.
Beanie can make me a believer. All he has to do is run well against USC and LSU. That should end the argument either way, shouldn’t it?
When that happens, I’ll come back and give him props.
So the stats he has already put up don’t get him any credit when they clearly show that he is more consistant across the board and does his best work against the better teams he plays?
I doubt you were saying McFadden needed to prove himself in his bowl game last year. Which he didn’t when he ran 19 times for 89 yards for a 4.7 yard average and 0 TD’s against a Big 10 Team called Wisconsin…..where he also got ran down by an obviously slow (Big Ten) Wisconsin defender on a 45 yard break away that he had.
You’re in a pit; stop digging. Beanie Wells is a nice running back. He gets credit for that. However, now we’re talking about the Heisman Trophy, given to college football’s most outstanding player.
He’s no Darren McFadden. He’s simply not. This is not being debated anywhere outside the state of Ohio.
He has a chance to prove he deserves it amongst next year’s field. That won’t include McFadden, so he has a chance to do that.
I’m not in a pit; you just don’t listen well (or can’t read). I’m not saying he deserves the Heisman trophy this year or should even be considered for it, or is better than McFadden is this year. You stated that he was a “far-cry” from someone like Darren McFadden. You are simply wrong and biased because you are an SEC fan. You stated that McFadden clearly has the advantage in stats (which I pointed out again that you were wrong). I stated that statistically Beanie is further along than McFadden was at that point in his career, performed at a higher standard more consistently, and did his best work against better competition on a more frequent basis (see best 3 games for both Wells and McFadden in my previous post).
And per your “this is not being debated anywhere outside the state of Ohio†comment:
Rivals.com, a very reputable site, has him listed as the 4th best tailback of THIS year and put him as a 2nd team All-American THIS year. I would say they think he is more than a NICE tailback.
And as stated by this article, Heismanpundit.com has him listed as the #1 most likely athlete to win the Heisman next year.
But what do they now?….or wait they must be run by people from Ohio and they being biased.
Seriously we could have this argument till the beginning of next season….you could continue to give your OPINION while I show facts and the analysis of professionals……and you’ll probably still say that Beanie Wells is a NICE running back. You are a typical SEC fan, you don’t care for football outside the SEC, in particular the Big Ten. It just comes across as classless when you refuse to give someone the credit they deserve because you don’t like the conference they play in. It would be similar to me saying that McFadden and Tebow are not the best 2 players in the country (I do believe they are) just because I don’t like the SEC.
So please, if you’ve got something else to say, please have some facts, logic, analysis (besides that of an SEC area newspaper editor) to back it up rather than just your OPINION.
P.S. Here’s my shovel if you need to borrow it.
know (maybe I should learn to spell check my stuff before I question your reading)
This just in, the Sporting News has also named Beanie Wells as a 2nd team All-American:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=315722
here are the Rivals.com links if anyone wanted to see what they had to say about Beanie:
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=745108
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/viewCFSE.asp
Wil,
Look, you seem to be wanting to turn this into a slam from a Gator fan on your player.
Last year, if the Heisman Trust had granted me a vote in the selection process, I would have written “Troy Smith” in at #1. And I don’t think his poor play in the national championship game invalidates that in any way.
I don’t hold any prejudice against Beanie Wells. I just look at him and see a player with a lot of potential, and a chance to prove he can convert that potential into production against LSU in January and USC next season.
This season which has just passed us? It was known across the college football world that Ohio State played a weak schedule. Yes, weak. It is not comparable to Arkansas’ schedule, who played the SEC’s best team on their home field and won. No objective outsider believes that the ‘07 Bucks could have gotten through an SEC schedule with only one loss this year.
No one. You know it, and I know it.
Now: I do understand your argument. I promise you, I do. And I am striving not to allow this to become a personal bickering match, because I like elevenwarriors.com and I recognize I’m the SEC “lotus” coming in to prey on your fertile corn (bean? heh) stalks. I don’t really want to be that, but that is what you seem to want me to be.
You’re comparing this year’s Beanie to last year’s McFadden. I’m saying McFadden wins that argument hands-down, especially considering that Arkansas had to play even more top competition in ‘06 vs. ‘07.
You say McFadden doesn’t have the edge in stats; I say he does, because he ran against tougher competition than Wells, and shared the burden with Felix Jones. The “stats” that prove that is the defensive ranking of the teams he ran against. He is also the feature player in Arkansas’ offense which allows defenses to concentrate on him as the #1 threat. He has had a bullseye on his back for two years.
Beanie Wells had a chance to surprise people this year. I am NOT in any way attempting to discredit him. I simply think he needs to prove what he can do against some top-caliber competition before we start talking about making him a finalist for the Heisman Trophy.
As for HeismanPundit.com, Chris Huston is a friend of mine and he runs a great site. He specifically operates that website from the perspective of how the Heisman Race really is, not how it should be. He is showing how the media is likely to view Wells going in to next year’s race. It is not necessarily an endorsement on his part, although for all I know he thinks Beanie is great. But I do know he wouldn’t rank him at #1 just based on his opinion. He is very clear about that.
I hope this helps clear up my position on this and that you have a better understanding of where I’m coming from and why.
Best regards,
GP
One other thing I can’t believe I forgot to mention. I think your insistence on comparing the sophomore years of McFadden and Wells is a really unfortunate comparison for your argument.
McFadden ended his sophomore year as a runner-up for the Heisman Trophy. Wells, in his sophomore year, wasn’t a finalist; and for that matter he wasn’t even in the Top 20. McFadden came onto the scene in ‘06 on a team with very little expectations; Arkansas did better than expected. It’s a similar setup to Wells’ at OSU, yet there was no mention of the Buckeye RB by the Heisman Trust.
It’s a bad comparison and I think it’s far more gentlemanly and fair to Wells to give him the opportunity, now that he’s proven he has the potential, to make his own statement in ‘08.
McFadden and Wells: not even close. Next year, there’s no McFadden, and we can judge Wells on his own merits. Fair enough?
Gatorpilot, thank you again for your OPINIONS about who had tougher defenses and schedules, I’m not trying to make you look like you are SEC biased…..you are doing that all on your own. You simply cannot show me any statistics to back up any of your information and now you are saying that it doesn’t make any sense that I compare Beanie and McFadden’s sophomore seasons….so in a sense you are stating that experience doesn’t matter (when it clearly does). So next time I’ll just compare Troy Smith’s senior season and Tim Tebow’s Freshman season and say that he shouldn’t have won the Heisman (clearly ridiculous because Tebow was very deserving of the award…but hopefully that will help you see my point). I have been comparing their sophomore seasons…..because well Beanie hasn’t had a junior season yet and that is the only fair comparison.
And for the hundreth time (try and actually absorb what I am saying now) I DO think that McFadden is the best player in college football this year (even though Tebow won I would put him at a close second because if Florida had a better than average tailback this year he would not have gotten all those rushing touchdowns). I am simply stating that Beanie (at this point in his career) has statistically performed better and more consistently than McFadden did.
Now if you want to say it’s because McFadden had to share time with Felix Jones I must point out that argument is well……retarded…He still got as many carries as Beanie did and had Felix Jones there to help wear down the defense….which also brings up the “Wild Hog” offense that Arkansas had, in which McFadden took the snaps and the defense had to account for him running or pitching the ball to Jones…..Trust me I don’t think many defense were planning on seeing our quarterback run the option with Wells.
Also, since the beginning I have been saying that I am comparing them strictly on their abilities as running backs…..you know and I know that McFadden’s ability to make the big pass helped his Heisman stock (as well it should have).
I never said that Ohio State’s strength of schedule was great this year…and I never said that they would make it through the SEC with 1 loss so quit putting words into my mouth….but if ESPN is still up to date…..no one made it through the SEC with one loss this year.
Now you can talk about strength of schedule in the SEC till you’re blue in the face…..and in most cases you’ll be right that most of the teams in the SEC did have much tougher schedules than Ohio State (i.e. LSU and Florida). However, not all of them did, and when you try and tell me that an Arkansas team who had a combined opponent record (minus the outcome of their games) of less than .500 had a tougher schedule than Ohio State….well I’m I find that hard to believe…..wait let me repeat that for you so that you can read it again “less than .500 ….yes they played the best team in the SEC and beat them…… but I thought that it was determined a “tougher” schedule by consistently playing tougher opponents….not one really tough opponent. This year Arkansas did have a particularly week schedule as they did not play Georgia or Florida (2 of the top 3 in your conference). Do I believe OSU could have made it through LSU or Florida’s schedules with 1 loss….it’s possible but VERY unlikely and a LOT of things would have needed to go in their favor…..do I believe OSU could have made it through Arkansas schedule with 1 loss….YES.
do I believe that Florida, Georgia, of LSU could have made it through the Big Ten with 1 loss….YES ….do I believe Arkansas could have…..NO.
I will not argue with you that the Big Ten and SEC are comparable top to bottom because they are not and the bottom half of the Big ten outright stinks….do I think the middle to bottom of your conference is better than the top of ours….NO.
I’m not trying to make you look like a “SEC is better than thou” person, I am trying to get you to take off you SEC glasses and see that the Big Ten stills has good teams at the top with good players and that the rest of the country can see that (and notice that Beanie Wells is much better than a NICE tailback) so you should get off your high-horse and see it too.
On a side note, I have no problem with you defending your conference and its players as I obviously am doing the same and I respect the allegiance you show towards them. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t give players from other conferences their due credit.
Now since you have been assuming what MY opinions are without asking I have provided them for you so you won’t see me coming across as to much of an Ohio State homer (if I wasn’t little bit of one I wouldn’t be a true fan).
Now congrats on Tebow winning the Heisman. Although I would have put him 2nd to McFadden I don’t have any argument as to why he shouldn’t win. not only for his play, but also because seeing him speak at all of the awards he has won……he seems to be a generally good kid who will be a good representative and a good role model for the future. (Makes it really hard to not want the guy to do well throughout the rest of his career.)
Lastly, if you were to ask me if Beanie should be one of the front runners for next years Heisman I would say yes….If you were to ask me if he should be THE front runner I would say no….it should be Tim Tebow (and I would have said that whether he had won this year or not).
Don’t know why that came up ANONYMOUS…..that was obviously me….maybe I’m annoying Chris, Jason, and Mark with my obscenely long posts.
Oh, and nice touch on the “beanstalk” joke in there….well played.
No annoyance here. We love the back and forth of intelligent fans arguing on behalf of their players/teams/conferences. Keeps the blood boiling during long bowl layoffs!
I think in your final argument you made some statements we can agree upon. I think Beanie should be included in the Heisman conversation for next year (NOT the frontrunner — yet). I’m glad you agree with me about how tough it’d be for OSU to get through an SEC schedule unscathed or with only one loss. And I do happen to agree that Arkansas, as coached by Nutt, is probably a multiple loss team in any BCS conference.
I guess our central argument revolves around McFadden-vs.-Beanie and there are just too many subjective factors at play on both sides of the fence for us to come to an agreement. I view Beanie as a running back with good statistics but unproven against top competition while I view McFadden as proven multi-year monster player who came in runner-up for the Heisman as both a sophomore and a junior in the nation’s toughest football conference. He had huge games in both years and while he did disappear in a few, both his stats and his style of running were amazing. He’s a 4.3 runner in open space and also a great power runner, and he never gets tired.
So the comparison to me clearly favors McFadden, not just statistically but in other categories as well. I think it’s OK that we disagree about where Beanie is compared to McFadden at this time because Beanie has a chance to prove he does belong. And hell, it’s quite possible that he does.
So let’s watch the games and let Beanie’s actions do the talking.
Fine by me, but I do have to point out your comment “as both a sophomore and a junior in the nation’s toughest football conference” does make you look like a perennial SEC homer. Just because I think the SEC is tougher than the Big 10 THIS year (which can still be proven wrong by bowl games) ….that DOES NOT mean I think it is the toughest conference in the country this year….sorry, but this year that award goes to the PAC 10 (at least in my opinion). But I’m sure the Bowl games will clear that up a little bit.
You think I’m a homer because I’m saying the SEC is the toughest conference?
What about this group of people?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/bill_trocchi/11/07/conference.rankings/index.html
Now before you say it’s some kind of bias, here are the entities who say the SEC is #1:
CBS, ESPN, Sporting News, Yahoo Sports, Athlon Sports, College Football News, and the Los Angeles Times…
Is it a conspiracy? Nope, everyone knows this is where the best football is played right now.
You really think that fans of the SEC are incapable of any kind of objectivity? If I was an ACC or Big East fan and said the SEC was the nation’s toughest conference, you wouldn’t give me any grief?
I just don’t understand that. Let the argument stand up on its own merits, rather than the person who presents it.
No, I think you’re a perennial SEC homer because you, like most SEC fans, seem to like the sound of their own voice saying that as they say it as much as possible. You (the SEC) went 1-2 against the big and slow Big 10 last year and are 6-8 in the last 14 bowl games against the Big 10….but my bet would be that you think the SEC has been the toughest conference in college football for some time now. And I never said that the SEC wasn’t good or didn’t deserve credit for being good. Just don’t agree that they are the best. Maybe I just can’t get over the punch in the mouth Tenn. (who competed in your championship game) took from an average Cal team.
However, in all fairness, I will say that Florida is a much better team than Tenn. but because of a tougher schedule was knocked out of the SEC championship game & Georgia not finding a tailback until it took 2 games on the chin hurt them.
There is also nothing wrong with you being biased….I’m biased and I’ll admit it….I have more knowledge of the Big Ten teams than SEC teams as I’m sure the opposite is true for you. Remember….fan is short for fanatic.
And you’re right I wouldn’t call you an SEC homer if you were an ACC or a Big East fan…….but mostly because that wouldn’t make any sense.
You’re article is also over a month old…..there have been a lot of games played since then…..although I would find it hard to beleive that the SEC wouldn’t be in the top 2 with the Pac 10 if they were to update their picks.
And fo the record: Spencer Tillman of CBS Sports should have his sports analyst card revoked after picking the ACC #2 when almost everyone else picked them as last or 2nd to last.
After the last 4-5 games, I’d be shocked if that same group wouldn’t be even more ardent in their belief that the SEC is the best in the land. For crying out loud, look how many SEC teams are playing in BCS bowls and good January bowls. Look how many are ranked in the Top 25 (6!)
I don’t take credit for Tennessee last year; Penn State prepares well for bowl games and UT does not. In fact, this year, I predict Wisconsin will beat them.
Arkansas lost despite 230+ yard rushing to Wisconsin’s -5. That’s coaching. One name: Houston Nutt. There’s your reason.
Had Nutt won that game as he clearly should have, it’d be 2-1 instead of 1-2 and we wouldn’t be having the conversation.
As for you, Wil, you too seem to like the sound of your own voice insisting that the SEC “ain’t all that”. But where’s the proof? Last year’s bowl record is a weak metric. This year it’s pretty obvious that there are a lot more quality teams in the SEC than in the Big 10, and you even seem to agree with that. I guess your argument comes across as a bit conflicted.
My proof is in 6-8 in the last 14 games. And me not being able to take credit for the Penn State win over Tennessee would be equivalent to me saying you couldn’t take credit for the Florida win because our quarterback and lineman had obviously gotten fat during the layoff. But I don’t believe that matters, I believe the final result is what matters. So that’s why we CAN have the conversation about the SEC going 1-2 against the Big Ten the same way everyone has been saying how Ohio State has been over-rated because we got punched in the face by Florida in the title game.
And yes Arkansas had 232 rushing yards to Wisconsin’s -5 (due mainly to Wisconsin’s inability to block Arkansas’ defensive ends) but Wisconsin out passed Arkansas 206 to 136 and Arkansas was also hurt by pass interference penalties (a main component in their 123 yards in penalties) because of their own inability to cover the Wisconsin receivers (or bad coaching schemes if you so choose to say).
Also, yes I do like the sound of my own voice, but quit stealing my lines, I don’t feel like doing Pete and Re-Pete (if you haven’t seen Super Troopers that’s your loss).
And no, my argument is not conflicted, I’m just a realist. I know the Big Ten is having a down year and unless they come up big in their bowl games they won’t be able to say otherwise. However, I am not buying into the SEC being the almighty conference. I think they refuse to travel out of the south to play other teams (for the most part). When they start coming up to play Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Wisconsin in November and win…….then I’ll shut my mouth.
Also, the Big 10 and Big 12 both have as many teams in BCS bowl games as the SEC, & they each have 2 more in January 1st Bowls while the SEC has 3 (not really more impressive than the Big 10 & Big 12 when you realize that the SEC has ties to 3 of the 4 non-BCS bowl games on January 1st)
Also, according to the BCS rankings (the only one that really matters right now); the SEC has 5 ranked teams with 2 ranked in the top ten……however, the Big 12 has four ranked teams with 3 in the top ten (so which holds more merit is another debate that people will always disagree on).
Gatorpilot, on a side note, there is a rumor going around on the radio up here that Urban Meyer has an out to go to Michigan in his contract…….is that true? If not can you please debunkify that myth for me.
Wil, you do know the SEC has the all-time advantage head-to-head against the Big 10, pretty convincingly at 63-45-2?
I’m glad you are a realist. The Big 10 is unlikely to win more than one against the SEC this year. Yet again, Tennessee draws a good Big 10 team in Wisconsin, and something tells me Bret Bielema will come up smelling like roses again. Phil Fulmer just can’t win a bowl game to save his life.
But the other two - the ones that matter - should be decisive victories for the SEC (Florida vs. Michigan and LSU vs. Ohio State). If that doesn’t come to pass, then you’re right, a lot of SEC fans will have to eat crow, including me. But I doubt that’s what’s in store for us.
By the way, the old argument about “come up to play us in Big 10 territory” is ridiculous. We play plenty tough enough schedules as it is, thank you. And no one wants to play a bowl game in the snow. That’s why they’re all in the south.
That argument is NOT ridiculous as MANY analysts point out that SEC teams refuse to leave the South, & when they do they usually don’t fair well. And I’d REALLY be surprised if LSU has a decisive victory over tOSU. LSU has not had a decisive victory against any half way decent team since Va Tech.
And Florida vs. Michigan that’s going to be Michigan in a landslide! uhhhhm, just kidding, Tebow actually might surpass his Heisman winning stats in that game alone…the Capital One Bowl Selection Committee must HATE Lloyd Carr, they picked the 1 team that would be the WORST match-up for his defense for his last collegiate coaching game.
Oh, also, did you find out if there was anything to that rumor about Urban Myer? Or is our radio host who keeps bringing it up a jack@$$?
Also, here is a funny link from a CBS sports writer (and SEC fan) comparing the Big 10 and SEC…..make sure you check out the 2nd page also.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/spin/story/9007236
Gatorpilot, because our debate has lasted so long that this pic has been added pushed to the second page, posting my most recent comment to this page:
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2007/12/lazy-thursday-caption-contest.html#comments