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Wiggins for Love?

SeattleBuckeye20614's picture
July 17, 2014 at 4:19pm
138 Comments

Interested to hear your opinions on the possibility of Wiggins being traded for K. Love. It was originally being reported that Wiggins wouldn't be traded in a deal for Love but Jeff Zillgitt (USA Today) and others have been reporting today that he's already been offered in a trade with the Timberwolves. So who would you rather have for the long haul? Wiggins or Love?

sharks's picture

Torrence Gibson

The postgame show is brought to you by... Christ, I can't find it. The hell with it...

+22 HS
Chief B1G Dump's picture

No doubt.  I know Torrance is better at wing but he refuses to move from his point guard spot.  Do you still want him then if he refuses to play wing?

+4 HS
brandonbauer87's picture

You don't say no to that kind of athlete. Let him run the point. Trade Kyrie. 

+1 HS
ITWASME's picture

Wiggins Wiggins Wiggins.

+4 HS
TresselourgodUrbanoursavior's picture

Kevin Love is a hall of famer. Kevin Love is a hall of famer. Kevin Love is a hall of famer.

+2 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Can you get into the HoF without ever making the playoffs?

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+2 HS
TresselourgodUrbanoursavior's picture

Thats a good question. Do you expect him to have a career ending injury this season? If not, I think its more likely that he make it to the HoF than retiring some 8 years from now without ever having played in the playoffs.

+2 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

In sports, nothing is guaranteed.

Besides Michigan sucking.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+9 HS
jeremytwoface's picture

Ask me in 5 years.

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+7 HS
Groveport Heisman's picture

Which player will make us a better team for the next 3 years? Thats who I want right now.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

+3 HS
Gametime's picture

It would be dumb of the Cavs to trade Andrew Wiggins, especially when they could get Love next year.

Right now they have enough to contend, and plus w/ tutelage from LeBron, Wiggins will likely be one of the best players in the league 5 years from now when LeBron & KLove will both be in their 30s. You keep that guy (Wiggins) around and set the Cavs up for a decade plus, rather than go all in now for what might likely be half that time.

The Timberwolves have ZERO leverage because K-Love can dictate who he will & won't sign a long term deal with which kills any potential trade. It seems obvious now that he wants to go to the Cavs, but the last I saw, the Cavs were trying to find another team that would allow them to get KLove with what they've already offered.

Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington

+13 HS
Chief B1G Dump's picture

As Colin Cowturd so annoyingly pointed out 948383838495933 times, Wiggins is like LeBrons own version of Scottie Pippen. 

Those dudes would be sweet growing together. 

+9 HS
Buck my Nuts's picture

If Wiggins can be as good as Scottie Pippen, then the Cavs are going to be great for the next 5-7 years

+5 HS
Gametime's picture

They would.

If I'm the Cavs, I would just wait until the trade deadline. I know injuries could be risk regarding the players involved, but if we assume they're all healthy, that would be the best bet, otherwise the T'Wolves risk losing K-Love for absolutely nothing.

Then if they don't trade him out of spite, no free agent worth his salt will want to go there.

Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington

+3 HS
TMac511's picture

Agreed. Sending Andrew Wiggins to Minnesota would be the worst thing that could possibly happen to his career. I think if he stay with LBJ, bring in Love before the trade deadline or wait until free agency next summer, would be the best thing that happens to him. Gets sent to Minnesota= average career, never reach potential. Stays in Cleveland= learn from the best player in the world, become "Pippen to LeBron's Jordan," become a perennial All-Star, and take over the franchise during LeBron and KLove's twilight years.

Trade talks involving Wiggins frustrate the crap out of me. Send Tristian Thompson and Bennett. Anyone but Wiggins, LeBron, and Kyrie.

buckguy10's picture

Cavs cannot sign Love next year. They are currently at the cap and that is before Kyrie's extension kicks in next year. The only way they could acquire Love would be thru a trade. 

That being said, I don't understand why the Cavs can't wait until December/January to see what they have in Wiggins. Maybe he turns out to be the superstar everyone expects and the Cavs don't feel like they need "another piece" in order to contend for a title. Maybe Anthony Bennett turns a corner and begins to play like he was worthy of the #1 pick, and the Wolves change their mind about not accepting a trade without Wiggins. There is no hurry here no need to make a trade right now. That's the point of the trade deadline!

EDIT: Sorry for stating almost exactly what Unky Buck said below.

+5 HS
jeremytwoface's picture

Not only that, but Love will almost certainly not be available next year. Minnesota would be stupid not to trade him this year which is why I don't understand why the Cavs are willing to give up Wiggins. They should just wait it out because they have the upper hand.

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

Gametime's picture

You're exactly right & that's how they could sign Love - in a sign and trade. They could still shed the salaries of Bennett and Waiters which would give them about 9mil (at 5.3 and 3.8 respectively) for K-Love on a (pseudo)MAX deal at 15mil, while having shooting peaces locked up for at least 2 years with all of your exceptions available to you, plus LBJ, Kyrie, & Wiggins for 5+years, then Cavs would be golden!

Now of course I believe Minnesota can decline to opt for a sign and trade in order to strap Cleveland, depending on if they can. However truthfully, getting another team involved that has to shed salary for talent wouldn't be too hard (The New York Knicks for Amare Stoudemire [MAX player at 18.2mil]  come to mind). You could trade Waiters & Bennett plus a 1st round pick the Knicks giving them youth that Phil could build with & Melo could lead, while clearing the space by making use of the amnesty clause to get Amare off the books for total of 27mil freed up, and sign love straight up Love.

The Cavs have way too many options.

Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington

Unky Buck's picture

I've certainly been reading less and less on ESPN and typically just go there for fantasy baseball but I did catch a Grantland article on it and, to my amazement, I agree with Bill Simmons. Why not just wait? Kevin Love and Cavs hold all of the cards in this deal. I think, as they stated in the article, that if Love was seriously considered to be traded, he would have been already. So let's see what we have with Wiggins and how these guys mesh. Maybe Bennett turns a corner (as it is believed could happen with him losing quite a bit of weight and showing focus and determination) and then we don't have to give up Wiggins (possibly).

I think the addition of Love would be amazing, but I also don't think there is really an hurry to do this. Right now, with the core group that they have, even being young, pulling the trigger finger so quickly could be another bullet point in the long list of bad moves the Cavs have made. So try something different, let things settle, and see where they're at come December.

...

+9 HS
unknownmusketeer's picture

Would Cleveland have enough cap space to get KLove next offseason?

+1 HS
Baroclinicity's picture

And I think every day that goes by, the T-Wolves lose that more negotiating power since they already know he won't stay.

When you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

+4 HS
Buckeye06's picture

My issue with this is that LBJ only signed for 2 years.  Let's say you wait on Love, that means POTENTIALLY you may only have both of them for a year.  I'm not saying LBJ leaves Cleveland, but would it be the first time?

I assume LBJ stays in C-land for his career now as he sees what he wants but who knows
 

-3 HS
buckeyecityterror's picture

LeBron signed that contract for more money in the future and for flexibility if it's needed. I don't believe he will leave Cleveland again.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress.

+3 HS
OSU069's picture

Lebron is not leaving Cleveland again unless Dan Gilbert goes completely crazy.

+1 HS
ToetotheFace's picture

Let's be honest, there is pretty much no scenario where getting Kevin Love for Wiggins is going to be a "bad move"(unless they package every youth along with Wiggins, which isn't going to happen). Love is too dominant and too good of a fit with LeBron for that to be the case, he is one of the most underrated players in the league. The guy averaged 26 points, 12 rebounds, and 4.4 assists last season, he was legitimately a top 5 guy in the league production wise, and he is only 25 years old so he should continue to produce at an elite level for quite a while. People act like he is just a very good big man, when really he is the best PF in the league right now, and the only ones even close to him(off the top of my head) are Griffin, Davis, and Aldridge(all in west). He will be a significant mismatch vs. almost any PF in the East.  

However, there is a situation where this isn't a good move. That is if there was a good chance at waiting them out with the leverage, and only reacting if another team begins to seriously offer Minnesota. In my opinion that is the move to make, especially with all the picks and young talent this team has. I don't think Minnesota is stubborn enough to allow Love to walk for nothing.

+1 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Love is too dominant

So dominant he's never made the playoffs. :/

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

-2 HS
ToetotheFace's picture

Oh come on. He doesn't have much around him and they were good enough to get there last season, but were crippled by injuries and lack of depth(caused them to blow leads) in a vicious western conference.  Kahn was an awful GM, but I don't see how that can be blamed on Love. Put Wiggins on Love's teams for his first six seasons in the brutal west, do you really think they would make the playoffs?

Love does so much for them with his time on the floor.

+2 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

but were crippled by injuries

So were the Knicks. Did Carmelo get a pass? Nope.

OKC? Russell Westbrook missed the majority of the season.

Put Wiggins on Love's teams for his first six seasons in the brutal west, do you really think they would make the playoffs?

If he's the player most think he is, why wouldn't he?

Just curious, but where do you rank Love? Top 5? Top 10-15?

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

-2 HS
sox33osu's picture

Who is giving Love a pass? His team was awful last year and he still won 40 games. The difference between him and Carmelo is he did it in the West. Carmelo won 37 in the ridiculous weak East. If you're making the comparison, Love was good enough to make it to the playoffs last year, he was just in the wrong confernce.

OKC also has a ton more talent than Minnesota, so I don't know why you're acting as if those two things are related.

Nobody has a clue how many games Wiggins would've won in Minny over the last 6 years, so it's irrelevant.

+1 HS
CTBuckeye's picture

Wiggins - from a financial standpoint you get a good young player that could develop into a perenial all-star at a rookie level contract.  It's hard to build a championship roster that can compete each year just paying for one or two superstars (though tough to argue a Lebron/Love/Irving combo).  I think in the long run it would be better to keep Wiggins and try to trade draft picks for Love.

"Because we couldn't go for three"

+3 HS
BucksFan2000's picture

Allegedly LeBron is pushing this.  However, we know he has a connection to Tristan Thompson, and he specifically mentioned TT in his letter back.

I'm not trying to say he's in Love's class, I'm just saying I wonder if LeBron is really pushing for this.  On one had, LBJ/Kyrie/Love makes them contenders right now, and Love is only 25.

On the other hand, you may be trading away the next great player in the league.  And if he is a lockdown defender, that frees up LeBron from taking on those duties all the time.

Welcome to the big time David Griffin.

+2 HS
bucks15's picture

I am all for trading an unknown rookie for a 25 year old who averages 26 and 12, especially since he has openly said he would sign an extension to play with LeBron.  Take the guaranteed star now during Lebron's peak years.  

+3 HS
SeattleBuckeye20614's picture

I'm not sure I would call Wiggins (The #1 pick in the draft) an unknown rookie...

+2 HS
Youngbuck85's picture

Anthony Bennett....

-1 HS
Deadly Nuts's picture

We all knew that was a bad pick the second it was announced... Not so much with Wiggins.

LEBRON

ToetotheFace's picture

In that draft? No we didn't. The only guys producing from that draft are Oladipo and Carter-Williams; neither of them fit on the roster at all so that wasn't an option. Otto Porter, the only other guy capable of playing the position we needed most then(SF), has been an even bigger bust than Bennett so far. Olynyk and Plumlee are the only big men producing but for obvious reasons there is no way they would have been considered by any team that high up. So the only realistic option other than Bennett that can be argued to be better for the Cavs is Noel, but who knows whether he ever gets healthy or develop skill on offense.

brandonbauer87's picture

I see no downside to slow playing this. If you get Love, great, but it's not a necessity. 

+7 HS
bigbadbuck's picture

Kevin Love if you are in pursuit of championships....

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here its a war room

+3 HS
Baroclinicity's picture

I'd sacrifice some points for the expected defense from Wiggins, for sure.  But look at it this way... you have LeBron and Wiggins... man, look how long you are on the wing...

Do not trade Wiggins.

When you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

+4 HS
teddyballgame's picture

I want to keep Wiggins.  Nobody else is offering them a player with as much potential as him.  We don't need to overbid.  Minnesota is going to have to take a deal or get nothing for him eventually.

Cleveland can come up with a package for him as good as anyone else.  IF Love really wants to come here then he should start to force their hand.

+5 HS
UrbanBuckeye's picture

Great deal in the short term. In the long term? We won't know for a while. That said, I think Wiggins has a "scary high" ceiling. Could be a superstar in 5 years.

In Urban We Trust!

+6 HS
1stYrBuckIClub's picture

I say no way am I trading Andrew Wiggins... yes, we need the low post presence more than we need a secondary (to Lebron) shooter, but given the amount of facilitation that Lebron does, his skill set in addition to scoring would be very helpful (read: also plays defense). Plus, think of the salary cap implications: you have Wiggins for four years starting w/ his rookie contract (I believe paying him less than 1/3 of what Love would demand). And after next year, Love will definitely want a max deal (making 3 players, Lebron + Kyrie as well). You need salary space for the other players, because as we saw w/ the 'Big 1/Little 2', if you don't have any extra to pay role players you're in trouble.

+3 HS
TresselourgodUrbanoursavior's picture

They won 2 championships

+2 HS
ToetotheFace's picture

Yeah, people trying to use them as an example just aren't very knowledgeable. I hated the heat for every minute of those 4 years but it doesn't change the fact that 4 finals in a row and 2 championships is a prolific run. Only one other team has had more than 4 in a row, and that was at a time when there was no balance in the NBA at all.

Love(25) + Kyrie(22) + LBJ(29) isn't really comparable anyway considering they would be much younger with a younger surrounding cast. Probably wouldn't produce AS immediately due to youth, but would have way higher potential over time.

+1 HS
ToetotheFace's picture

Nor is Kevin Love really as much of a "no defense" player as people think, even if he is only average on that side of the ball. Besides the fact that they would rarely come in contact with PFs that are hard to defend in the east. He is also a much better shooter with much better range than Wiggins right now and most likely for their careers, so that is an advantage. He is one of the best rebounders in the league, the top PF in the league with only the trio in the west even close to him, and he is great at outlet passing with would be devastating with LeBron. He is an elite player right now, Wiggins is a potential star in the future. Now I'd love to see Wiggins with the advantages that he brings(Athleticism, fast break, defense, etc.), but you can't deny that the Cavs are a MUCH better team right now with Love than with Wiggins.

 I don't think the reasoning as to why they won't trade him has anything to do with what you tried to argue, it has to do with the fact that Minnesota has no leverage unless another team provides them with it. Cavs can wait them out and by all means should. The only reason for the Cavs to give in would be another team putting together a serious deal and that is somewhat unlikely. I don't think Minnesota is stubborn enough to shoot themselves in the foot by letting him leave for nothing.

+1 HS
HouseHarleyBuilt's picture

You have to believe we're playing to win now, which means trading for Kevin Love. Its not about looking at it player for player, its looking at it by team. Varejao and Love are two of the best rebounders in the game. If you make the trade, our team becomes:
PG - Irving, Dellevedova
SG- Waiters, Mike Miller
SF- LeBron, James Jones
PF- Love, Thompson
C- Varejao, Haywood

Without trade:
PG- Irving, Delle
SG- Wiggins, Waiters, Miller
SF- LBJ, Jones
PF- Thompson, Bennett
C- Varejao, Haywood

Sorry, but I see more potential for success in the first lineup. We are chasing the Spurs. We need someone inside who can score and tire out Tim Duncan if we want to win. Kevin Love pulls defenders out of the paint, giving LBJ lanes to drive at will. If a second defender closes for help, you have an abundance of shooters who can kill you from deep. Wiggins could be an All Star. But Love already is one.

+2 HS
zoetaite's picture

Let the dust settle and see what cards you are dealt. K.Love won't be returning to Minny, so really their hands are tied. Wait 1 year until he becomes a FA and then strike. As far as lineups are concerned imagine having all the pieces mentioned above. To beat the Spurs you need decent BIGs and you need depth.

Imagine the following starting 5:

PG - Irving SG - Wiggins SF - Bron PF - Love C - Varejao,

Depth you would have: Waiters, TT, Bennett

ZT

+5 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

Can't keep that depth, and afford Love as a FA.

Jbucks's picture

Dion will be traded, he cant get with being Robbin to Kyrie's Batman, how is he going to be in the locker room being the third option? or 4th option behind KLove LBJ and Kyrie? hes already stated on Twitter he refuses to come off the Bench so id wait till deadline and try to sell Waiters to Wolves before i give up Wiggy. Also ive been more impressed with Bennet in Summer League than Wiggy. Bennet kinda reminds me of a bigger Antwan Jamison and i think he will be a huge asset for us in the future off the bench behind 2T. Were starting to add vets to this team and it could be a great mix of young and old. Mike Miller, James Jones possibly Ray Allen... were slowly turning into the Miami Heat and we know how that worked out... i just hope we dont have to keep rotating bandwagon players every year ive always been a huge fan of the way the Spurs are run... they have their stars but arent shy of adding the young talent in the draft or FA and they keep the team together. Thats the way id hope the Cavs ebd up doing this... A Dynasty... not rent-a-player

Light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it-John 1:5 SEC meet Ohio State, Ohio State meet SEC

+1 HS
BUCKfutter's picture

the only way you don't do this now is if you get solid intel that klove is willing to openly refuse to sign anywhere else, and then as the trade deadline approaches, all of a sudden you have the twolves' nuts in a vice.  trade klove on your terms, or lose him for nothing at the end of the season.

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

+1 HS
TraSmith4's picture

As long as Golden State refuses to part with Klay Thompson the Cavs can play the wait game for Love up until the trade deadline but I'm telling you if Love becomes a FA he is going back home to Cali. That being said I am more intrigued by keeping Wiggins and having salary cap flexibility to help your team whenever needed. When you have 3 max contract guys you are handcuffed and if 1 of them gets hurt you can't really go out and get the help you need. Having just 2 max contract guys makes more sense especially if you have a ridiculous amount of talent who are all under 25yo like the Cavs do and all of those draft picks come in handy at the trade deadline as well. Obviously the best possible outcome is getting Love and keeping Wiggins!

+5 HS
BoFuquel's picture

For the long haul Wiggins; but The Cavs only have two years to make it work, and it won't happen this season. So Love is a better option for quick help, but I don't think he will want to come to Cleveland. Rise Up Cavs.

I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

-1 HS
Rob Reese's picture

but The Cavs only have two years to make it work

^lol^

Wrong.

tOSU class of 2009, College of Arts and Sciences

+1 HS
TresselourgodUrbanoursavior's picture

Lebron signed only a two year agreement because he is waiting on the new CBA under which he will be able to make more money.

+2 HS
Rob Reese's picture

Exactly.  An understanding most people globally share. Some people just look for reasons to hate.

tOSU class of 2009, College of Arts and Sciences

+3 HS
Dweinz's picture
+3 HS
Nick's picture

Wiggins looks like a star in the making, I wouldn't trade him. The T-wolves will get desperate in Feb. and take Waiters/Bennett and a 1st round pick.

+6 HS
KingsRite's picture

Don't break up The Nasty Boys! Keep Wiggins!

“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” -Urban Meyer-

+3 HS
irishfury's picture

I'm a Pistons fan.  If it was my call.  I wouldn't trade Wiggins for anything.  I think he will be a top 5 player in 3-4 years.

+4 HS
SaltyD0gg's picture

Love is a top 10 player now and he's only 25. Make the trade.

Pain of Discipline
Pain of Regret
Take Your Pick

Go1Bucks's picture

Absolutely NOT!

Go Bucks!

+2 HS
js2378's picture

There's no reason to trade Wiggins for Love now. At the very least, you give the current team a few months before you trade Wiggins. Golden State will not give up Klay Thompson for Love; why would the Cavs give up Wiggins???

+2 HS
PasadenaBuckeye626's picture

I don't think it's reasonable to think that anyone would be able to sign Love after next season.  I would think that it would be a sign and trade scenario.  No team would give up what the Timberwolves are asking without having a guaranteed extension for Love.  As for Love or Wiggins, I'll take Wiggins.  He's good, younger,  and inexpensive while he's on his rookie contract.

Go Bucks!

+2 HS
sox33osu's picture

I'm making this trade and as soon as possible. 2 reasons -

1. The argument has always been Andrew Wiggins' potential vs. Love's proven ability. Kevin Love is only going to be 26 this season. There's nothing that suggests he has definitely reached his peak. He is already the best PF in game without question. He put up numbers this season that have never been put up since the ABA/NBA merger. He is unquestionably elite, and still arguably hasn't reached his peak.

2. Love has already said he wants to sign long-term. Has Wiggins? There's nothing to say after 3 years that he won't want to opt out and go elsewhere and become The Man. I am going to take the elite superstar that wants to be here long-term over the guy with potential who might want to be here for a few years but might not after.

buckguy10's picture

1. I think Lamarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin might have a question about Love being the best PF in the game

2. Wiggins will be a restricted free agent after his 4th season. At which point, the Cavs could match any offer he gets. As long as the Cavs want him, he isn't going anywhere

+1 HS
sox33osu's picture

1. You can have either of them, I'll take Love. Love averages more points, rebounds, assists, and commits less fouls than Aldridge or Griffin. He isn't as good defensively, but offensively he is in his own world.

2. My bad on the contract stuff. Don't know why I was thinking 3 years was the number. I guess the main point I was making, though, is that we know Love wants to be here. We don't know that about Wiggins.

logamaniac's picture

lets not pretend that Bron isn't the best PF in the game just because he can play other roles.

also in Minn the offense runs through him, so of course he's going to get points.  Love is really good - but id rather take what having wiggins develop within your own system could bring and thats championships, Love been to any playoff games yet?

-1 HS
7costanza's picture

Simple - wait til next year and have them both.

Why pick one when you can have both?

Let the young talent sort itself out this year, gain some chemistry, let Wiggins get his sea legs slowly but surely.  If the Summer League is any indication, which it sure is, then his time is coming very soon.  

Come next season, Love is a free agent and Wiggins is a 2nd year player with a little experience.  

I know Cavs / Cleveland fans are in a hurry to win a championship asap.  I get it.  Love is a stud now, I get that.  Adding Love now makes a championship MUCH more likely this year, no argument.  But with LJ here, these opportunities will absolutely present themselves... why not swing for the fences?  

To quote the Robert Duvall character in the movie Colors, "Then the older bull says, 'No son.  Let's walk down then and f#ck them all'."

+2 HS
sox33osu's picture

2 reasons why this is not what you do -

1. There are several teams that would love to make a move, and one of them will get him from Minnesota. They aren't going to just let him leave for nothing.

2. If he somehow made it to free agency next year, the odds of him deciding to sign with Cleveland over a team like Golden State or even the Lakers is slim to none, regardless of Lebron.

+1 HS
robobuck's picture

I would do anything for Love....but I won't do that

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.  1 Corinthians 9:24

+11 HS
ponder10's picture

Wiggins.

You can potentially get Love next season and will have the upper hand at the time. Sure you'll be competing with other teams but at that point it's up to Love. If he tells the Wolves he wants to go to the Cavs in a sign-and-trade what options do the Wolves have? They certainly want to get something in return, and at that point the Cavs and Love have the upper hand.

“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.” ~ Baba Dioum

+2 HS
danbrown7665's picture

get love. im sorry but Wiggins didn't show me anything at Kansas. You cant teach size and Love is a better fit for LeBron than Wiggins. Cant win a title without size.

"limitations, like fears are often just illusions"
-Michael Jordan, the greatest athlete of all time
 

-2 HS
OSU069's picture

Didn't show you anything? He averaged 17.0 PPG as a freshman in the big 12 on a good team. He won big 12 freshman of the year. Against WVU late in the season he had 41 and had like 30 in the second half. I think you just weren't watching enough or paying attention. 

+4 HS
danbrown7665's picture

Those stats don't say greatest all time player. Sorry. Did you see all the other games? specifically, the Stanford game when he went MIA

"limitations, like fears are often just illusions"
-Michael Jordan, the greatest athlete of all time
 

-1 HS
Rob Reese's picture

No one said anything about greatest of all time.   You don't have to be.   That's just kind of silly.   

tOSU class of 2009, College of Arts and Sciences

+1 HS
OSU069's picture

No one said anything about the greatest of all time. He just could be a superstar in today's game and had a very good season last year at Kansas. And everyone has bad games. Even MJ. Overall, those stats show that he was a consistent performer throughout the year. 

BucksFan2000's picture

Love is 6 10 with a 6 11 wingspan.  Wiggins is 6 8 with a 7 foot wingspan and a 44 inch vertical leap.

If you want size, keep Wiggins.

+1 HS
rdubs's picture

And about 4 times as fast and better at defense right now.  He's raw and can add some weight, but his ceiling is twice as high as Love's.  

+1 HS
ToetotheFace's picture

hahahahaha, this is getting ridiculous. Love averaged 26 fucking points, 12 rebounds, 4.5 assists  PER GAME(only 25). He is a top 10, arguably top 5 player in the league right now, and the best PF in the league with only the trio in the west coming close. I'm sure with LBJ mentoring Wiggins will be an all-star eventually, but there is no way his ceiling is twice as high as that, Love is an ELITE player not some low level star. Wiggins has a slightly higher ceiling, but there is no guarantee he will reach it. There is no way this team wouldn't significantly improve(championship favorite) in the short term if Love is here and Wiggins is in Minnesota. I get the reasoning behind why one would want Wiggins over Love long term, and totally agree with the wait and see plan given that the Cavs have leverage which may allow them to keep Wiggins and get Love, but people need to do some research before they open their mouths.

By the way, why would it be relevant at all that a wing is 4 times faster than a PF who can play at C? Love is a 4 times better rebounder, 4 times better scorer, etc. That is such a ridiculous point to try to make.

-2 HS
Groveport Heisman's picture

Damn son,Don't give them the whole Toe all at once.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

danbrown7665's picture

his ceilng is twice is high as Love's???? What are you talking about!!??? Love is a top 10 player RIGHT NOW. Wiggins potential isn't Michael Jordan because he has NO jumpshot! Great athlete but he isn't LeBron. He could be a top-10 player like John Wall or T-Mac or Vince Carter but Love is a top-10 player right now. His ceiling is not twice as high as Love's.

and whoever said if you want size get wiggins, you are crazy. That is blasphemous. Love can get 10-12 rebounds a game and is a 6-10 center!!! Wiggins is a 6-7 shooting guard!!

"limitations, like fears are often just illusions"
-Michael Jordan, the greatest athlete of all time
 

-1 HS
rdubs's picture

I'd rather have 1 Lebron or 1 Durant than two Kevin Loves, obviously I was exaggerating for effect and while I agree that Kevin Love is a very good player Wiggins can be much much better if he develops properly.  As you'll see below I would trade them one for one because Wiggins isn't a known quantity yet.  But also Wiggins is already a better defender and fits Lebron's uptempo game a lot better than Love given his far superior athleticism.  Did you see the summer league spin move that Wiggins had, or his nasty step back a couple games before that?  Love cannot do that.  If Wiggins can develop to do those things more consistently he will be much more dangerous than Kevin Love.  Definitely not a given, so one for one I'd take Love for sure, but if much more is involved I would start to waver.

+1 HS
danbrown7665's picture

you make no sense. You are literally arguing that Wiggins is a better big man than Love and he is the best PF in the game right now. Love gets 10-12 rebounds a game and is standing 6-10!!!

Obviously Love has more size than Wiggins as a better rebounder.

Can Wiggins guard Tim Duncan? Can Wiggins guard J.Noah? Howard? No, but Love can.

Wiggins cant score on the block like Love. He cant hit a jumper like Love and he cant get rebounds like Love. '

If you want an elite athlete that can play defense then go get Trevor Ariza

"limitations, like fears are often just illusions"
-Michael Jordan, the greatest athlete of all time
 

-2 HS
OSU069's picture

With how poor of a defender love is, I doubt he could really guard any of those guys.and Ariza isn't even in the same planet as Wiggins as an overall athlete. And you keep naming big man and saying wiggins can't guard them. What if I said can Love guard Westbrook, Paul, Curry, Wall, Rose, etc? Wiggins can guard them but love can't. 

danbrown7665's picture

I was referring to when he said that if you want size then keep wiggins. Plus, LBJ and Irving can guard all of the guys you just mentioned.

Plus, Wiggins isn't that much better an athlete than Ariza and athleticism can only take you so far. Look at Gerald Green.

Go get the proven all star at a position of need that fits well next to LeBron. If Love (him right now not in college)  was in draft he would have went number one and everyone knows it. Come on now.

"limitations, like fears are often just illusions"
-Michael Jordan, the greatest athlete of all time
 

BucksFan2000's picture

Well, if you trust these defensive stats, Love was barely ahead of TT last year.  He also ranked behind Oladipo, who Wiggins should be able to match.

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?pageNo=5&rowsPerPage=25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Love can guard Duncan or Howard?  Um, no.  Regardless of a trade, that will be Andy's job.

+1 HS
Furious George 27's picture

I think Wiggins will be good. However, the Cavs picked him up only after Embiid got injured. So had Wiggins been their guy the whole time with the #1 pick, then I would hesitate to trade him. I still think though with draft picks and Dion Waiters it should be enough to get Love.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

+2 HS
Go1Bucks's picture

They were never going to take Embiid.  Smoke and Mirrors, baby!

Go Bucks!

-1 HS
Furious George 27's picture

With the #1 pick who were the Cavs trying to fool?

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

+1 HS
robobuck's picture

Themselves. Trust no one.

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.  1 Corinthians 9:24

+5 HS
MichaelJ721984's picture

Sometimes you just gotta trick the hell outta yourself to keep ya on your toes...

BuckeyeLurker0509's picture

Bird in hand vs two in the bush.

Kevin Love proven...

Wiggins not.

no brainer.

+1 HS
rekrul's picture

I vote Keep Wiggins.

Love will be expensive and strap us cap wise for the next 3-4 years where Wiggins is CHEAP.  Love also has missed 20+ games 3 of his years in the league and only played 18 games one year.  He is a defensive liability, him and Kyrie on the court will drive James nuts trying to defend...

While Wiggins is young, he has an NBA pedigree and his dad taught him DEFENSE first.  With Lebron and Kyrie there is no need for him to be an offensive phenom.  He plays good defense, has sick athletic ability, can get to the rim and the line, as proof from last nights game. 

Love is a proven top 10 player, but there are also negatives he has proved, like his ability to play defense and his contract price.  If they do trade Wiggins for Love, this has GM Lebron all over it IMO.

Out Work, Out Think, Out Play!!!

+3 HS
Boom777's picture

I think we should keep Wiggins. Has anybody ever heard the story of the old bull and the young bull? Old bull and a young bull are on a hill looking at a herd of cows. Young bull says "let's run down and F*** one!" Old bull replies "let's walk down and f*** them all." And I believe this is the Miami Heat and the Spurs. I would rather be the Spurs. Rush it for one, or try to build something bigger and long term

Wherever you are, there you be!

+1 HS
ISURVIVEDCOOPER's picture

I'd love to have both Wiggins and Love, but seeing that it is a 1:1 type of trade offer, I think it's coming down to how realistically can they win a championship now versus waiting a few years for Wiggins... I think the long-term play is more wise of course, but maybe they feel they need an instant impact with rebounding, passing, and scoring support.

"I don't apologize for anything.  When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

GlueFingers Lavelli's picture

I really think they should wait until next year and get Love. Build chemistry with our young roster now. Figure out who's who this season, then make a huge push for Love. Doing it this way would probably give us the best option to figure out who needs to go now, opposed to bringing in Love and having unknowns on the bench.

Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.

+2 HS
OSU069's picture

I don't think the Cavs will be able to afford Love as a free agent. If he is their player from a trade, they probably could. 

+2 HS
apack614's picture

Keep Wiggins let LeBron mentor him over the next how many ever years and let's see what happens. I am all for the up and coming rookie and believe that he can be the next big thing in the NBA. Especially with someone like LeBron teaching him.

"If we worked half as hard as our band, we'd be champions." - Woody Hayes

+1 HS
TraSmith4's picture

Maybe I'm old but if anybody remembers Scottie Pippen and his tenacious D well Wiggins is a more athletic Scottie Pippen in the making. If he gets traded for Love it's because LeBron convinced Griffin to make the deal. Barkley says if Love comes to Cleveland the East is a wrap. Remember Love is only 25.

+3 HS
OSUnathen's picture

I think Love is an essential piece in order for this team to win titles now. If all else fails and Wolves won't trade Love without getting Wiggins then I thinks you have to pull the trigger and do the trade. Love is a top 15 player in the NBA and is only 25. Love is an immediate upgrade and makes the Cavs a contender now! Wiggins might be a great player but he might just be average or worse. I'm more intrigued in an established All-Star 6-10 250lbs big man with post moves and a really nice outside shooting game over a Wiggins. 

+1 HS
rdubs's picture

I think my vote would be for Love if it were a 1 for 1 trade (I am a Kansas fan so I would love for Wiggins to stay in Cleveland).  But if you have to start adding draft picks or other key players, pretty soon it becomes too steep.  

+2 HS
jamesrbrown322's picture

The only way that they should deal Wiggins is if they do not have to include draft picks. There would still be a chance that Love plays one year with Cleveland and then walks.

IMO, there is no way I include Wiggins in the deal. He has insane upside, and I just don't like the idea of giving him up for Kevin Love, unless they get a pick out of it. I love the idea of Wiggins and Irving as the future, and LeBron as the present, raising their play and teaching them what it takes, especially on the defensive end, to win a title. Is Love really good defensively? I am not positive, but I am not sure that he's that great on that end of the floor, so one may have to weigh that, as LeBron doesn't need an offensive force in the post, nearly as much as he needs more of a "rim protector" in order to save some energy on that end.

However, if the Love deal happens, and the Cavs don't have to mortgage the future to do it, they immediately become overwhelming Eastern Conference favorites.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

+2 HS
ToetotheFace's picture

There is no way they are doing the deal if Love doesn't sign an extension before it, so I wouldn't worry about that.

+1 HS
TraSmith4's picture

They won't deal for Love if they don't already have a contract extension in place so there wouldn't be any one and done. I wonder however if he wants the 2 year deal like LBJ and if so then keep Wiggins. Only deal for Love if you get at least a 4-5 year commitment from him. In my opinion with the additions of Gasol, McDermott, Mirotic and a healthy Rose the Bulls are the favorites in the East as of right now. If Love goes to the Cavs I may reconsider that opinion.

+1 HS
jamesrbrown322's picture

Yes, the Crying Spaniard puts them over the top!

I have to respectfully disagree. LeBron, Irving (thanks for the correction) and Wiggins still make the Cavs the favorite IMO. No one knows what the Bulls will get out of Rose. McDermott and Mirotic are not proven yet, and you never know if it might start to click to Anthony Bennett (optimistic, I know).

Plus, I CANNOT STAND Joakim Noah. I think that guy yells about absolutely everything that happens in life.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

Groveport Heisman's picture

You think the current Cavs lineup as stands today is favorites in the East? Sorry to respectfully disagree but I think the Pacers would also have something to say about this.They went to the East finals 2 years straight and gave a loaded Miami all they could handle. Unless they lost a bunch of players that I havent seen about. Most of their players were younger and still improving too.

Ps. Its Kyrie Irving...He is a All Star and I can't see how you could keep misspelling his name.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

OSU069's picture

Pacers lost lance Stephenson who was their second best player last year. He was also the only one on Indiana who came to play each game during the playoffs. That is a huge loss for them and I think they will take a step back unless Paul George becomes a superstar. 

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Pacers lost lance Stephenson who was their second best player last year.

If you ignore David West, sure.

He was also the only one on Indiana who came to play each game during the playoffs.

Again that was probably David West. Stephenson had 10, 9, 12, and 11pts in Indy's last 4 games. That's not coming to play.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Groveport Heisman's picture

Was about to say I seen Stephenson talk a big game during the finals then completely disappear. Paul George and David West are both better then young Lancelot.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

OSU069's picture

How is david west better? West is not the player he once was any more. I mean, he averaged less rebounds per game than Lance even though he's got like 4 inches and 40 pounds on him! In addition, Stephenson is a good two-way player who can score, pass, rebound, and defend. 

Groveport Heisman's picture

While they have similar rebound and scoring averages West is the better defender in my opinion. Not to mention the better leader and better human all around. One is a great leader and warrior and one is considered a self centered cancer.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Did you watch the playoffs last year? Without West, they lose long before the ECF.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

jamesrbrown322's picture

Okay, you got me on Irving, I'll give you that. My bad.

However, IMO, LeBron is just that good, and the East is just that mediocre. I've seen Pau Gasol in person, in his prime, and he's just too soft. Until we see something from Hibbert on a consistent basis in the postseason, from top to bottom, I like the Cavs, and I'm not the only one -

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/07/early_favorites_to_win_nba_cen.html

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24617754/seeding-the-new-look-eastern-conference-teams-playoff-style

www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-futureswww.nba.com/2014/news/07/11/lebron-cavs-oddsmakers.ap/

With Love, they are prohibitive favorites, but without them, I still like their chances, especially if James can get Irving and Wiggins to buy in 100% on the defensive end. I guess we'll find out in about 10 months...Either way, I am just glad that the Cavs are relevant again.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

+2 HS
Groveport Heisman's picture

Highly respected opinion. While I wish I felt as confident in the Cavs as you did I  just feel there are too many unknowns and not near enough low post depth. Some of those Vegas odds are probably counting on the Cavs adding Love,if not they  are capitalizing on the huge over-reaction of fans. The first year if the rosters stay put I would  think the Bulls,Pacers,and maybe one other team will finish ahead of the Cavs regular season. But if those rosters stay put I would expect more growth out of the Cavs on a year to year basis with their talented youth. Maybe second year or maybe 3rd they will be ready to take the league by storm. Its fun to debate it and nobodys opinion is better then anyone elses but Kevin Love right now with James and Kyrie would hands down be favorites.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

+1 HS
logamaniac's picture

to be fair, when you include vegas odds etc its important to remember that they make odds to ENCOURAGE gambling not just solely on who they think its best.

+1 HS
Earle's picture

I've been pretty impressed with Griffin so far (in that he hasn't done anything obviously stupid like Chris Grant).  Until he proves otherwise, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will be able to land Love without trading anyone named James, Irving, or Wiggins.  Any other combination of players/picks for Love would be a huge plus.

Just say no to italics abuse.

+1 HS
DefenceWinsChampionships's picture

Don't get me wrong, its not because its a bad trade. If you can swap a rookie for KLove you do it. Its a good deal. The issue I have is that its not necessary. Unless the warriors change their stance and offer up Klay Thompson there is no reason for the cavs to blow their load early on this one. You wait it out and the closer you get to the trade deadline the more the price will drop, especially if they find themselves in a struggle for the 8 seed (which is likely). The wolves already know the market for Love is thin, and its unlikely that a new team jumps in with an offer thats better than what the cavs are putting up. Boston? No. Houston? No. Dallas? No. Phoenix? No. No one but Golden State is a threat. In the meantime, a lineup of PG - Irving, SG - Waiters, SF - Wiggins, PF - LeBron, C - AV could be terrifying for other teams. You roll with that until Minn caves and sells for Dion, Bennett and picks.There is no reason for the cavs not to have their cake and eat it too.

+1 HS
FROMTHE18's picture

Cavs have quite a bit in the cupboard to use to acquire Love, Wiggins will be a monster in the league, you can keep Wiggins and get Love, theres no sense IMO of trading Wiggins when you won't need to

+3 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

Offer the farm, everything is available except Wiggins, Irving, and James. Wait into the season if you have to. The Cavs can offer a ton of first round draft picks next year, and their own for 2 years from now. If some combination of pieces from the rest of the roster and 4 first rounders isn't enough I say you pass. 

TRADING WIGGINS IS A MISTAKE. They're going to do it, but it's a huge huge mistake, and makes me sad.

+1 HS
Groveport Heisman's picture

Looks like the ticker said the Cavs are willing to give up Anthony Bennett and Andrew Wiggins the last two #1 picks to aquire Love. As much as I want  Love I think that would be a huge mistake. Bennett actually looked in way better shape and to be playing well during the Summer League.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

jamesrbrown322's picture

I think that they're mortgaging way too much on the Love acquisition, and could slow play it a little more. I'm gonna go ahead and speculate that LeBron wants Love badly, and that the pursuit of Love was even part of what Cleveland may have promised to entice LeBron a little more to come home.

If it happens, it would be pretty amazing to have two of the ten best players in the league in a market like Cleveland, as opposed to LA, NY, Miami, and the likes.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

OSU069's picture

There is absolutely no way they should trade Wiggins for love yet. There is still a lot of time and no other team is coming up with a really good offer. I highly doubt the warriors are going to trade Klay Thompson. The cavs should wait it out until the wolves cave and accept a trade without Wiggins.

Groveport Heisman's picture

I think they are trying to drive the price up on Love by putting out false information. They really want Klay Thompson badly.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

+1 HS
KingsRite's picture

Based on what I have seen on the internet it appears the majority of fans don't want Wiggins traded. Hopefully management sticks to their guns.

“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” -Urban Meyer-

+1 HS
Fly Patterns's picture

I get the sense everyone would prefer to keep wiggins but the majority of people I have talked to outside this site want the championship opportunity now and if that means having to give up wiggins so be it.

edr4225's picture

I don't understand all the hype for love.  Yes, he can put up nice stats, but where is the defense!  Love averaged .5 blocks per game last year, that puts him in the same category as zack randolph .3 block per game, david lee .4 blocks per game and the cavs own Tristan Thompson at .4 blocks per game. While all the players i just named give you at least 9 boards and 10 pts per game, they can't guard anybody.  Where is the defensive effort!!!  Defense wins championships!!!  The spurs locked up the heat!!!  Then people will say, but Love averaged 26 pts 12 boards and 4 assists a game, but he aint shutting anybody down.  Thats why i say keep Andrew Wiggins, thats right i said keep Andrew Wiggins!!!  6'8 elite athlete who can defend!!  With his athletic ability alone, he would be able to help lebron shutdown the league top backcourts.  You would have two 6'8 freaks of nature flying around making defensive plays all over the court, now thats what i wanna see.  The Lebron Wiggins defensive combo would give offensive players major major issues!!!  Put in my vote for Keep Wiggins!  

lets go bucks!!

+1 HS
danbrown7665's picture

1. Kevin Love is a proven all star

2. Position of need

3. Cant teach size

4. Wiggins unproven

5. Wont get Love next year because he will get traded to Warriors even if they don't include Klay Thompson and at least he will opt-in. So stop thinking they are getting love and wiggins...

6. is this really how we want to start new with LeBron? Remember when we couldn't give up JJ Hickson for Amare because Hickson was going to be a star?? FYI: we traded Hickson a year later for Omri Casspi and waived Casspi shortly there after.

"limitations, like fears are often just illusions"
-Michael Jordan, the greatest athlete of all time
 

+1 HS
Groveport Heisman's picture

Reality...In large doses can be very dangerous to the fragile human ego. Good job Dan. Both are probably not an option. Most people seem to be very very greedy at the moment and just think we can acquire and keep everyone.If not Love now, then a dominant low post presence option needs to be discussed.  Wiggins is going to be a All Star...Eventually...Love would make this team  so much better for the next 3 seasons. If the Cavs prove the front office cant make the right decisions to make this team a title contender does LeBron leave again? Huge gamble and we all have to hope the front office knows more then us and will make the right decision.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

+1 HS
Adam21's picture

6. is this really how we want to start new with LeBron? Remember when we couldn't give up JJ Hickson for Amare because Hickson was going to be a star?? FYI: we traded Hickson a year later for Omri Casspi and waived Casspi shortly there after.

Remember when this wasn't true?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/cavs-bid-stoudemire-falls-flat-013400768--n...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4913305

http://www.morningjournal.com/general-news/20120128/nba-insider-suns-vet...

+1 HS
bethmowins's picture
Dweinz's picture
buckeyeguy0615's picture

Don't tell me the cavs gave up Wiggins...

Edit: The cavs just signed Wiggins to his rookie contract, today. He can't even be traded for another 30 days. I don't think any trade went down.

bethmowins's picture

It can't formally go down for 30 days if they do trade him but they can still verbally agree to it during that time. Apparently this is actually a better move from a trade standpoint since Wiggins now has an actual salary value which he didn't before. This would help if evening up the money numbers for a potential trade.

+1 HS
Groveport Heisman's picture

Cavs will give up Wiggins,Bennett,and future 1st,and another player to be named. Sources saying its pretty much a wrap. Sucks monkey balls to give up all that.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

+1 HS
js2378's picture

Wow. So that basically means Golden State values Klay Thompson more than Cleveland values Wiggins. 

+2 HS