Ohio State football talk.
What down was that?
Did we win - Yes
Does this call matter anymore - No
Paralyze resistance with persistence. - Woody Hayes
I think it matters, 34-10 over Navy is better than 34-17. Say we lose to VT on Saturday, then we finish off the season 12-1 and find ourselves on the bubble for the playoff, every point is going to matter.
I just don't like dawning on individual calls in games that we won handily. Didn't mean to be a hard ass in that comment haha.
If we lose to VT on Saturday, the Navy score still won't matter - the selection committee will not put a 1-loss B1G school in the playoff.
Unless another conference champion has two losses, not too likely but it has happened.
We will not lose to VaTech or anyone else during the regular season. 13-0 here we come.
That would be a 37 game regular season win streak !!
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 1 Corinthians 9:24
Let's Go BUCKEYES!!!!!
Luke Fickell? Is that you?
That was 4th down.
Just being honest, to me that's not definitive. I do believe that the correct angle existed to potentially overturn the call, but it was only shown on the broadcast at the very last second before the review was finished, and it was not in the necessary slow motion.
So glad the officials took the appropriate time to get the right views to make the rIght call. They were very quick on the trigger on the reception out of bounds on the same drive.
If his knee was down or not, he deserved that TD based on determination alone.
That's not how football works
well put, haha.
You can feed a bobcat all the chili it wants. That don't mean it's going to crap out diamonds.
Not everyone gets a trophy to help their self esteem.
"Greater love has no one than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends"
The same could be said for OSU: even if Navy did score on that play, they didn't deserve the TD because of OSU's great determination on the goal line stand for 4 straight plays.
I'm not sure this warranted down votes to lock lol.
11w folks are trigger-happy with the downvote
It's 2014. Everybody gets a trophy.
My bad I forgot to put "in my opinion" before I wrote this. My apologies to everyone I offended or angered with this statement.
Sorry, but your red circles cover up the knee
Looks like his knee may have been on top of one of our defender's hands, actually.
When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.
This picture is amazing. I was trying to figure out yesterday if the pylon is inside or outside of the out-of-bounds line. In this picture, its obviously out. The ball hit the front of the pylon as far as I could see yesterday. Hitting the front of the pylon would not actually mean the ball crossed the plain anywhere in bounds. That would only be the case if the pylon was inside of the out-of-bounds line. Any rules experts out there? I know we won the game, and I honestly thought the refs got this one right, but I think this is a flaw in the rules.
The Dude abides.
I was wondering that exact same question. It doesn't make sense to me that people say if you touch the pylon it's a touchdown when the pylon is out of bounds. The inside or backside of the pylon? Sure. The front or outside? I don't think so. But would also like to hear from someone that has a better understanding of the rule than I do.
The pylon's outer edge is the outer edge of the endzone. Therefore, touching the pylon would be considered touching the endzone. As we all know, the tip of the ball just has to touch the goaline to be considered in, same goes with the pylon.
"Quit skipping leg day bro" - Dr James Andrews
It looks like the outer edge of that pylon is 2 or 3 inches out of bounds. The inner edge of the pylon is the edge of the end zone. Therefore, touching anything on the inner edge makes sense to me. Touching the front or outer edge should be out of bounds.
He touched the outside of the pylon which is out of bounds in the picture. Why would that count? Never understood that.
It's the entire function of the pylon. The pylon is there so the ref know where the end zone ends and where the in-bounds line begins. Touching it with the ball while inbounds is a touchdown by rule. I don't know why this is discussed so much on buckeye boards; it's football 101. If the pylon is not in the current place then that's a problem with the ground crew and field judges, and I would hope both teams would have someone responsible for going around and making sure everything on the field is correct by the rules.
We know the rule, but there is nothing wrong with discussing why it is bullshit and doesn't make sense.
BULLSHIT. The pylons sits on the boundary line. If you have to only 'break the plane' of the goal line to be called IN, you also only need to TOUCH the boundary line, to be considered OUT OF BOUNDS. The rule is BOGUS. If you touch the inside of the pylon, you had to have 'broken the plane'. If you touch the back side of it, you were OUT OF BOUNDS----that is the line it touches. The rule sucks, although it is the rule that is in place.
My initial reaction was that it was not a touchdown. The pylon fell toward the playing field which means it was hit on the out-of-bounds side. This whole thing is moot really since we won, but I would like to know if it makes a difference on which side the pylon is hit. If hitting the pylon makes it a touchdown, then clearly it was a touchdown. We are making more of this than Tyvis did. He accepted the play and call.
Remember to get your wolverine spayed or neutered. TBDBITL
Assuming his knee wasn't down, if he touched the pylon it's a td. This is not up for debate. If it were Devin Smith going into the endzone and he touched the pylon it would be the same thing, TD.
Whether he was down or not, that's a different story.
I once heard a commentator say that the goal line extends "infinitely" in each direction so even if the pylon was sitting out of bounds it could still count if this is true. I've never taken the time to actually research the rule for myself.
That picture is sweet, I stand corrected.
Great picture, thanks for sharing
“Being average means you are as close to the bottom as you are to the top.” John Wooden
I'll say this- I don't really care about the call, but that pic does show of much Navy wanted to win- I'm glad we could get past them!
The rule should be that the ball needs to be on the inside of the pylon. He barely touched the front of the pylon and it happened at the same time his knee touched out of bounds. It should have never been called a touchdown on the field. IMHO
“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” -Urban Meyer-
the official who called it a touchdown didn't even see it happen either. He was knocked down by the players and just got up saw the pylon down and threw his hands up lol
Thank you for the footage.I thought that was a bad call but now I definitely know it was!!
Did you not see the pic that BadOwl posted? Kind of makes it look like they got the call right.
Either way, the pic the OP posted was not clear or definitive at all.
he still hadn't touched the pylon yet in the picture. we need the video from the opposite side to see exactly when the knee hit. ironically with the technology now a days they can sync up the videos in the replay room. it would be great if it was figured out though bc 34-10 looks a lot better and it would have made the narrative that we are going to hear on ESecPN all week about us squeaking out a win
I know i was on the phone with my a friend like always because we talk every game and have been doing that for Yearsssss and we never have not lost a game when we talk on the phone. But is was going nuts over that miss call and a few other call's that went Navy's way from the review booth.
I told right from the start when they said where the up there was from i knew then any review was going to go to Navy. But one of the things he was bitching about was the angle of the camara and keep saying don't they have a better angel fron the other side of the field or a camara over there?
But even i could tell from what i was seeing that the knee was down down just a split second before the ball hit and i knew the ref's on the field would not catch it with the game moving that fast.
But i also knew that the review booth ref would not over turn it because who was up there. All i know from the games i watched so far there is going to be a lot of that shit going on this year with the ref's. There was a lot of no call's i saw in the Bama game as well as a few others.
So all i can say is hang on becuase this is going to be a wild season where ref's are invold in out come of game's from the SEC and the Pac 12 to make sure a few teams stay at or near the top to get them into the top 4 at the end .
don't dv the previous comment. It was hilarious watching the Bama game and the crazy advantage they had against WVU when it came to officiating. Bama seriously was getting 95% of the calls and most of them were hilarious because then the next drive a Bama player would do the exact same thing a WVU player was flagged for and there was no call
There were several occasions where it was obvious CBS Sports doesn't cover the game the way ESPN/ABC do. Seemed like CBS had half as many angles/cameras as you would see in an ESPN/ABC game. I remember one run where Danielson said we don't have a camera angle from the other side of the field, which seemed odd to me... Fortunately the only people affected by the touchdown/no touchdown on 4th and goal were bettors in Vegas.
I agree with you, but I did love the coverage of the game.
The only part of the pylon that is physically in the field of play is the very inside face of the pylon. The rest of it is in the out of bounds portion of the field. Most of the time you will see players trying to reach on the inside of the pylon and not just to touch it anywhere.
Do Hokies like donuts? Sorry, been working out in the yard today and got a little over heated. Do they ?
I still think some of this is on Powell for taking a terrible angle. They had that play well defended and he should have taken the pylon awa, but he ended up diving on his own teammate. I guess it doesn't matter now, but it was something I noticed yesterday. The frustrating part is that the d-line did a hell of a job on those for plays.
seize the carpe
You can go here, to download (free) the ncaa football rules book. I searched the document for "pylon". As far as I can tell, in every scenario, it just discusses hitting the pylon and not any particular side of the pylon. There is also a picture showing its placement and how it does sit outside the line.
End Zone as defined by the linked rules book...
a. The end zone at each end of the field is the rectangle defined by the goal line, sidelines and end line.
b. The goal line and goal line pylons are in the end zone.
c. A team’s end zone is the one it is defending (A.R. 8-5-1-VII and A.R. 8-6-1-I).
In the end, a W is a W and I think that's what it is going to take for us to make the playoffs.
Still doesn't make sense because they are not actually in the endzone lol.
I agree. I mean, it literally shows the set up of the pylon outside the end zone. It wouldn't seem hard to distinguish the difference of sides but by the rule book as long as his knee wasn't down... TD.
Do you really want to get into deciding which part of the pylon was touched? This has happened hundreds of times since I started watching football, just don't let them touch the pylon! When we're trying to score our guys try to do the same thing.
I think the point is, if the pylon was positioned on the actual goal line instead of out of bounds, then hitting it in any way/shape/form makes sense to call a TD.
Rules as they are, it was called correctly. But the rule makes zero sense. Here you got 2 inches from touching the goalie, have a participation trophy touchdown.
7 yards and a cloud of dust is a beautiful thing
Exactly! I like to think of it this way: a receiver's foot has to touch the green of the endzone to come down with a legal catch. If his toe comes down on the line, he's out of bounds. It should be no different with the pylon. Put the pylon on the endzone line, INSIDE the sideline. Then there's absolutely NO dispute that you broke the plane and were inbounds.
“The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.” ~Carl Rogers
Like mentioned many times in this thread, the game is over and the good guys won, but I still think the ruling is interesting enough to think about and discuss. After thinking about this for awhile, I have come to my own opinion that the pylon is old technology and needs to go. When I watch tennis and there is a question whether a ball is in or out, they have the ability to see exactly where the ball hits. How come this technology hasn't been utilized in football?
I can only guess, but in tennis the ball needs to impact the court to be measured whether or not it was "in" or "out" on the play. A football need only cross an imaginary 'plane' to be measured whether or not it was in. In essence, tennis balls are counted in a 2-D world, footballs in a 3-D world.
"Momma told me there would be days like this."
I have always hated the "break the plane" qualification, anyway. I wish the rule said you had to touch the ball or a part of your body IN the endzone to score. It would make touchdowns more definitive, and we wouldn't waste so much time looking at reviews to try and determine if the guy crossed the IMAGINARY line in the air.
Key: Kick over the pylons when the opposing team is going to the corner.
Station a man right in front of the pylon at all times.
Why are we debating this? For as long as I can remember, if you touch the pylon before going out of bounds, it's a touchdown. End of story. It was ruled a touchdown on the field and there was no replay that proved conclusively otherwise. It was close if the knee was down first, but nothing to prove it was. If this was reversed and it was OSU getting the touchdown we wouldn't be talking about it. We'd be saying, "what an athletic move my Dontre or EZE" or whoever. You can't tell anything from the OP's picture. Little red circles and arrows don't prove anything. If the runners knee is half an inch off the ground, he's not out of bounds.
True. Your point about it being reversed and it was Ohio State that got the call. How much you wanna bet the replay official waits as long as possible and scrutinizes every bit of the frames to see if the knee was down first and overturn it? There needs to be some serious oversight when it comes to replay officials and if they are going to review a play then they need to have some tv standards on where cameras need to be placed to get maximum coverage/angles to make it easier. Whether it be from 20 to 20 or in the red zone there should be no excuse to not get at least 6 angles to look at every single play. 3 at different spots on each side of the ball would reduce the amount of "inconclusive" plays that we get constantly. It won't totally alleviate the problem but it sure would help. With the amount of money these dang tv companies make the NCAA should make them foot the bill for it too. Either that or reduce the amount of tv timeouts
It was a TD, who cares though. We beat a good Navy team.
Buckeye fan from PA
I'm way more worried about the other 368 rushing yards we gave up
I'm a friend of thunder is it any wonder lightning strikes me
I said it was a gift to Navy when it happened. Should have been OSU ball.
I know we beat this topic to death, but 2 cents anyhow. Live got him, pylon moved maybe not. Replay inconclusive, TD, great play running back.
Then I see pylon not in field of play (great post to ???) so I ask how the replay booth didn't catch it. Possibly not their call. at any rate it is the officials job to catch that and not the coaching staff. At any rate you are not going to get all the calls. Sure made it more interesting.
"There are 3 things that can happen and 2 of them are bad" - the Curse of Woody Hayes
Something I didn't actually realize or hadn't thought about in a long time was that the pylon never actually sits within the rectangular field of play. Only the inside edge touches the field but by definition the entire pylon is in play.
You are correct. The rule makes no sense, IF you hit the damned pylon on the side that the Navy player hit it. On the INSIDE of the pylon, the rule makes perfect sense. Whoever made the rule must have a Michigan education.
Quite frankly it was one hell of effort and desire to score by the offensive player! Initially I thought we had him stopped way short of the goal line.
Make Will-Way your Way!
The defensive effort to keep him OUT of the endzone, was equally impressive.
+1 good sir.