Anything Else Forum

Anything Else Forum

Offtopicland. This still isn't the place to discuss politics, religion, or hot-button social issues, however.

BuckeyePoetLaureate's picture

That's the great thing about literature...you get to decide for yourself.  There's no wrong answer. 

Was Tony shot in front of his family, poetic justice for a man who harmed so many others?

Did Fate protect him once more?

It's up to you.

Proud alumnus of the Ohio State Creative Writing MFA Program.  Creator of the writing craft site Great Writers Steal.

+2 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

There is a wrong answer though. The guy who wrote it had a thought about how it should end, and to him this ending was obviously open to interpretation but how did he think it ended? That's what I want to know,

BuckeyePoetLaureate's picture

David Chase's thoughts are certainly interesting, but they don't ultimately matter.  He gave us his work and now it belongs to us.  This is how literature works.  

Let's turn it into more of a real-life example.  Say a significant other cheats on you, but he or she says, "I only slept with my co-worker because I love you so much!"  Would you simply nod and accept the clearly stated intent they've attached to their narrative?

I don't think you would.

Proud alumnus of the Ohio State Creative Writing MFA Program.  Creator of the writing craft site Great Writers Steal.

jeremytwoface's picture

Exactly...

That's what any art is. Music is the same way... the artist has a reason for writing a song, but I might find a different meaning behind it depending on what's going on with my life. You could ask the person why they wrote a certain song, but what's the fun in that?

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+1 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

And that's all well and good, but the ending was a cop out. I've heard every different way of looking at it, and I don't care. Shoot him or have him riding off into the sunset. This ending is nothing but a cop out. It isn't artistic it's horse poo.

Ahh Saturday's picture

I won't presume to tell anyone what the "point" of the ending was, but I'll say that it's most satisfying if you view its uncertainty as a representation of the continual anxiety with which Tony Soprano lives (lived?) his life. I know the article says that David Chase says Tony Soprano survives those onion rings, but honestly, David Chase doesn't get to say. If he wanted the ending to be explicit, he could have made it explicit. Now, his guess is as good or bad as ours, and as pointless.

+9 HS
Rob Reese's picture

I'll say that it's most satisfying if you view its uncertainty as a representation of the continual anxiety with which Tony Soprano lives (lived?) his life. 

Excellent take on one of the most talked about finales of all time.  I don't necessarily agree with the rest of your thoughts on it. But this one is an outstanding thought.  The emotional investment for viewers that historic night was palpable.  

"All I have known at Michigan is failure.  That's all I know." - Taylor Lewan

+3 HS
Hoody Wayes's picture

As the creator of The Sopranos, David Chase can say whatever he wants. And he can be criticized. 

And he should be criticized. Up until that last moment, the writers of The Sopranos confront. Hence, fading to black equates failing to confront. 

Ahh Saturday's picture

I should clarify. What I meant by "David Chase doesn't get to say" is that he can no longer determine the meaning of the ending for us. The ending is what it is, and that is ambiguous. His saying otherwise doesn't make it otherwise. Of course he has the right to speak on the matter, but his words should be considered as no more than another thoughtful opinion.

Rob Reese's picture

When Chase was asked if Tony's dead in an interview with Vox, he begrudgingly responded, "No. No, he isn't."

Thank you, God.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.  +1 UV for David Chase and sparring Tony and the Soprano family.    I'm actually in the midst of watching all 6 seasons again on DVD for the 4th or 5th time.  The Sopranos never get old.

"All I have known at Michigan is failure.  That's all I know." - Taylor Lewan

+1 HS
Groveport Heisman's picture

Too bad they waited too long to make the follow up movie and James actually passed away in real life. Would have been a movie I surely would have shelled out the money to see.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

+2 HS
TURD_BUCKET's picture

How true. I was hoping to see  3 or 4 films after the series ended.

“Being average means you are as close to the bottom as you are to the top.”

+1 HS
logamaniac's picture

JG was adamant about not wanting to play Tony anymore.  i remember reading more than a few interviews he gave about other characters in other projects that he even felt were too similar to Tony and didnt want to do those either.

-1 HS
ponder10's picture

What's the point in telling us now though? Since he is dead and all.

I think the point of keeping it alive was because a lot of people wanted there to be a movie to tie it all up in a bow but obviously that cant happen now. Why doesnt Chase just say yes? Does it really matter?

“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.” ~ Baba Dioum

-1 HS
What Would Troy Smith Do's picture

Hard to go against the creator, but it doesn't really jive with the way the scene was filmed.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but...........

The last scene was Tony in a diner with his family.  It oscillated between 2 views, Tony's POV and the camera facing him from across the table.  I think people speculate the guy who entered the diner (I think with the hat) could be a/the killer.  We see him coming out of the bathroom near then end.  The last view with a picture was the one facing Tony.  The next thing we get, which should have been Tony's POV based on the flipping back and forth was pitch black.  To me, that is Tony's view and it is a whole lot of nothing because he was killed.  There is your answer.

Apparently I'm wrong.  Oh well, I'll stick with this theory cause it makes sense.

Ramzy Nasrallah's picture
Hoody Wayes's picture

C'mon Ramzy! That's not the issue!

When millions of viewers wonder if a cable service outage coincided with The Sopranos denouement, that's bad writing.

-2 HS
logamaniac's picture

except youre still talking about it today which means its relevant writing and the popularity and acclaim would tend to shine towards being a "great" work as well.

Hoody Wayes's picture

Being relevant is not necessarily a virtue.

Cutting to black to conclude The Sopranos was a choice anybody could have made. 

The Sopranos is a marred masterpiece.

-1 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

Preach on brother. 

People still talk about a lot of things that happened a lot longer ago, that doesn't mean they were great. The guitar solo in cinnamon girl comes to mind.

-1 HS
kareemabduljacobb's picture

Sort of like Walter White... his fate is left unknown.

+1 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

His cancer was about to kill him, and then he got a machine gun bullet in his belly. He dead.

kareemabduljacobb's picture

That's what was to be believed but we never really saw.  Even Cranston himself left the door opening saying who knows if he died.

IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

The abrupt way it ends and the talk of it being a dream does make sense I guess. I'm old enough to remember how the show "St. Elsewhere" ended. It was all the imagination of a child. Of course Tony is alive, he just woke up that's all. THAT would suck if that's what it was. Maybe it remaining ambiguous is for the best in this case. :(

"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest Civil War analogy EVER.

KBonay's picture

Ah, the untold ending.  One of my all-time favorites with that cliff-hanger ending was Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.

+1 HS
IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

When I play 3-card poker when I go to Vegas this movie is the first thing I think of LOL.

"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest Civil War analogy EVER.

+1 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

That conversely was a great ending to me.

+2 HS
Mean Mr Mustard's picture

In the end, life is just a one big nothing.  That was a huge theme of the Sopranos. Everyone is a hypocrite is the second most common theme.

That is the way I saw it at least

Wilkins78's picture

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/27/david-chase-sopranos-misconstrued/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

David Chase says his remarks were misconstrued.  Still no definitive answer on what happened.

PittBuckeye's picture

I didn't take it to mean Tony didn't die either. That's just people really wanting an answer.

BTBuckeye's picture

^^Excellent point at the end of the NY Times article about 2001: A space Odyssey. I truly felt that when I read the VOX article that Chase wasn't been quoted correctly. Thank you for posting. I wrote the following yesterday morning when I read the VOX article.

The Sopranos ended when it ended. It's mysterious and left to your imagination. Literally, Tony is not dead because the story ends before anything happens to him. Indeed, Tony is alive at the end of the Sopranos. Chase left open to your interpretation whether you think he died AFTER. It was all set up by the clues previously given by Chase. Truly, Kubrick-esque. He didn't spell it out for you. No easy road. The "third layer" of storyline, the hidden, the "open to interpretation", which makes the Soparanos a true work of art. I don't care whether Tony's dead or not as much as others do. I will say that Chase had a lot of balls for finishing the Sopranos the way he did. In retrospect, just fantastic. Do I think Tony died after the screen went blank? Absolutely. But that is just my interpretation.