Anything Else Forum

Anything Else Forum

Offtopicland. This still isn't the place to discuss politics, religion, or hot-button social issues, however.

What is Most Important: the University or the Football Team?

Citrus's picture
May 27, 2014 at 2:04pm
41 Comments

I love Buckeye football. LOVE IT. However, I am more proud of what The Ohio State University accomplishes as a university. In recent years, Ohio State has become more impressive academically. I am confident this trend will continue. 

Because we need off season distraction, I offer the following question: If you could transform Ohio State into Stanford (decent football team that every now and then is dangerous but not quite elite + elite academics) would you? Why or Why not?  

All Ohio State traditions would remain the same. This isn't about Stanford per say. Rather, it is a question of trade offs. Would you be willing to trade football success for academic success? 

osu07asu10's picture

Love buckeye football but the football team didn't provide a higher education and open the doors to opportunity in life for me.

Without the University, there is no football program.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+6 HS
Citrus's picture

So, would you make that trade off? Move the football team down a tier (not much) but further improve academics? 

osu07asu10's picture

So, would you make that trade off? Move the football team down a tier (not much) but further improve academics? 

See, that is what makes Ohio State a beautiful institution...we have a top notch academic research institution AND first rate athletic programs and facilities.

It isn't just athletics, it is academics, research, medical center, etc.

There is NO trade-off with tOSU. 

 

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
osu07asu10's picture

I did attend a University for graduate school (Appalachian State) that was steeped in football glory but just a blip on the college football radar.

I furthered my education through one of the premiere public administration programs in the country and enjoyed some 1AA FCS football Saturdays.

While attending ASU, I always wore buckeye gear and never wore app state gear. I had numerous people tell me over and over that they never met someone, or a sect of people, who have more pride in their home state, than Ohioans.

I took it as a great compliment and as an alumnus, former employee, and proud citizen of Ohio I can tell you there is only one place I was going to school and one state I want to represent.

I can't separate the two because greatness is intertwined. 

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
Citrus's picture

I see the football team as a manifestation of the greatness of the university. Certainly, the success of one has fed the others. I am proud that academic prestige increased in near lockstep with football success during the Tressel years. 

Bolt's picture

I had a similar experience while living abroad. Overseas I had friends from every corner of the world and they were always taken aback by how proud Ohioans are. All of my friends knew everything there was to know about Ohio State, the school, the sports, the band, the traditions and Columbus, Ohio after spending time with me. We'd be at a soccer match in Olympic Stadium in Seoul, South Korea and I'd be getting perfect strangers shouting O-H to me throughout the day (I was wearing an OSU shirt) and it blew their minds. No matter where I traveled to I'd always get an O-H or something sooner or later and they couldn't believe it.

hit_the_couch's picture

We'd be at a soccer match in Olympic Stadium in Seoul, South Korea and I'd be getting perfect strangers shouting O-H to me throughout the day (I was wearing an OSU shirt) and it blew their minds. 

I have some fond memories of Seoul as well, but mine involve time in Itaewon and a combat bottle of Soju.

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

+1 HS
Buckeye06's picture

Football is more important to me at this point.

OSU is a great GREAT school as is, top 50 in a ton of those ranking magazines.  I have never had an employer or interview where someone commented on OSU about it not being good enough. 

To me now that I've graduated and no one cares about where i went to school (no one cares after your first/second job...then they care about your work results), I wouldn't trade OSU football Saturdays for anything. 

+3 HS
Citrus's picture

Ohio State is a great school. No doubt. However, certain schools have such a high academic reputation that it makes it difficult to fail an interview. If a kid from Harvard applies to most jobs, he/she is going to get a strong look. 

+1 HS
BroJim's picture

Good question. I can't imagine being anything but Ohio State; I can't imagine things being different. I guess to answer the question (In your terms) the football team is more important. However, I do value education more than football  but not when it comes to Ohio State. . .  I guess.

 

Then again, it could be that the success of the athletic department contributes to success of our academics.

I season my simple food with hunger

luckynutz's picture

It would be easy for me to say football...due to the fact I did not attend the university. But its not that cut and dry. Mainly because of the research being done by the James. Cancer affects all of us...and has done a number on my family. And the James is at the forefront of research and treatment of this dirty b*#ch of a disease. Which to me is far more important than anything that happens in the Shoe on saturdays.

Also, it has granted an opportunity to succeed in life to members of my family through their education at The Ohio State University. And to many members of this site and family members as well.

+4 HS
Citrus's picture

This is a terrific answer. Here's to your family. Kick cancer's ass! 

+3 HS
BME_Buckeye's picture

I would leave it the way it is.  An University first that is gaining in academic prestige and excellent programs that is backed with an excellent football program. We aint broken so don't fix it. 

Edit: Education is more important than the program.  Being an almunus, my degree has affronted me many opportunities the team didn't beside traveling to road games.  While the football team is great, ohio state football serves it's purpose to continue communication with friends, alumni and allow others to experience the University in a way they may have never have. 

Look closely, because the closer you think you are, the less you will actually see.

 

+1 HS
Citrus's picture

Haha seems to me that you're saying "we are going to have both so why should I settle?" I like your moxy. 

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Transforming Ohio State into Stanford would take away educational opportunities from thousands of students each year. So no I don't doing so would best serve the State of Ohio.

A more productive goal would be to move The Ohio State University system closer to the University of California model.

(FWIW my degrees are from UCSD & Stanford)

 

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Transforming Ohio State into Stanford would take away educational opportunities from thousands of students each year. So no I don't doing so would best serve the State of Ohio.

The university is actually doing this already. In the 70s & 80s pretty much all Ohio HS students with college aspirations could come to tOSU. Today, you really do have to have your academics in line if you are to make it to Columbus as a freshman.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
Citrus's picture

If a student doesn't cut it academically, they can attend OSU Newark and then transfer to main campus. Also, the university hasn't shrunk that much, more smart kids are staying in Ohio - a good thing. 

+1 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

@Citrus - Exactly.

Ohio State has done a tremendous job of improving it's academic profile but the point remains that if it were to magically transform into the Stanford model there would be 40,000 fewer undergrads.

We're talking about the difference between a public University with an enrollment of more than 55K that accepts almost 2/3 of applicants and a private institution of under 16K that accepts a little over 6% of those who apply. There is a massive chasm between the two models.

As I said before the University of California system is a far better model for the flagship University system in Ohio.

+1 HS
Citrus's picture

I am not suggesting that it have fewer graduates. Stanford is just a proxy for the idea of elite academics and great football. The size of Ohio State is important. 

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Stanford is still a bad proxy for improving Ohio State academically as it represents a very different academic mission. There are public Universities that serve as better stand-ins for 'elite' academics.

Perhaps a better way to phrase the question would be which would you prefer Ohio State to more closely resemble, the University of Chicago or Boise State?

osu07asu10's picture

If a student doesn't cut it academically, they can attend OSU Newark and then transfer to main campus. Also, the university hasn't shrunk that much, more smart kids are staying in Ohio - a good thing. 

That was exactly my point, more and more Ohio kids are being deferred to the satellite campuses. It is becoming increasingly harder for Ohio kids to go to Ohio State.

If you look at the diversity of the freshman classes coming in, 70% are instate and 30% are out of state or international students. I can't find a diversity breakdown from the 80s, 90s, 00s, but I would feel comfortable that it used to be a much higher percentage of instate (probably in the 80s).

Ohio State used to be the school all Ohio kids could go to, and today that just isn't the case. An in-state student with the same grades, accolades, and test scores as an out of state or international student will be deferred in lieu of the out of state or international student.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

Buckeye in Illini country's picture

An in-state student with the same grades, accolades, and test scores as an out of state or international student will be deferred in lieu of the out of state or international student.

I feel this is absolutely not the case.  Ohio State, or any land-grant institution for that matter, will take in-state students over out-of-state or international students without question, if they have the same grades, etc.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

osu07asu10's picture

I feel this is absolutely not the case.  Ohio State, or any land-grant institution for that matter, will take in-state students over out-of-state or international students without question, if they have the same grades, etc.

You would think that to be the case but it isn't. It isn't just a problem at Ohio State, Out of State students mean more diversity, and more important, increased revenue.

Approximately 15% of current Ohio State students are from out of state, and the 2013 class had a 70/30 ratio of instate to out of state. The trend is toward accepting equally qualified, out of state students in lieu of the lesser paying in state student.

And in 2013, for the first time, Ohio State received more out of state applications than in-state applications

The university built an enrollment plan three years ago, studying the demographics in Ohio, the Midwest and across the country.
Evanovich said that in Ohio, the number of high school graduates has been decreasing over the past three years. The state is losing 2 to 3 percent of high school graduates every year. He said “the same picture is very true in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Illinois.”
The solution was to make investments in states, such as Florida, Texas and California, that had “double-digits growths in high school graduates,” Evanovich said. The university already has recruiters placed in Los Angeles, Dallas and Atlanta.
“What we really want to do is keep the best Ohio kids here and create a brain gain of really smart students from across the country and now across the world because we are using our gateways that we opened up in Shanghai, China and Mumbai, India,” he said.
OSU President E. Gordon Gee was recently in Sao Paolo to lay the groundwork for a third center.
OSU is becoming more national and international.

The goal is to have about 25 percent of OSU’s freshmen be from out-of-state with about 18 percent of that 25 being domestic and the remaining being international, Evanovich said.

OSU is pushing to include the best kids from Ohio, the nation, and across the world in order to create a healthy competitive environment and to diversify the university’s population.

 

So per their own plan, it isn't to provide an opportunity for all Ohio students to attend Ohio State. It is to keep the brightest Ohio kids in Ohio, and pull from the best both nationally and internationally. 

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
Citrus's picture

Part of this is economics. Out of state students pay the full price tag. Instate is subsidized. Let's assume that more out-of-state students are attending Ohio State. Is this bad? Ohio is suffering from a decreasing population. Many out-of-state students will stay in Ohio after graduation. This could stem the tide of Ohio brain drain. essentially, making new smarter Ohioans. 

+1 HS
SOF_Buckeye's picture

Diversity is great; until we are so diverse we don't remember who we were. Take Washington DC for example; our nations capital feels like a foreign city due to all of the diversity. I'm sure many would argue that's a good thing. Me, I want my capital (or my state university) to emanate with a home grown, All American/Buckeye aura. Just my two cents.

"The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender." Woody Hayes

FROMTHE18's picture

without the football team, there'd still be a university, without the university, there would be no football team. Enough said. The football is a nice part of the University but the University is far, far, FAR more than OSU football. Those of us who were lucky to attend OSU know this too well.

+2 HS
buckguyfan1's picture

We are fortunate to have excellence in both!

+3 HS
Seattle Linga's picture

And there is so much more to the university than Football and Academics. 

+1 HS
Hovenaut's picture

The football team impacts our lives (let's talk August through January).

The university impacts the world.

"Success...it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

+4 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Well put Hove! (As if I needed to doubt someone with that kind of wisdom)..

 

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
InvertMyVeer's picture

If we're being honest the football team impacts many of our lives year-round :) but you are very right the things the University accomplishes extend far beyond the football field.

Football is complicated...

+1 HS
causeicouldntgo43's picture

What is this, some kind of demented Kobayashi Marou? I'll take the Capt. Kirk route and cheat the system by saying I'll take both - great Football and strong Academics, not either/or.

teddyballgame's picture

We ain't come to play school

+2 HS
Jason Priestas's picture

This is a great question. If Ohio State was Stanford, the money being generated in Central Ohio right now would be insane. Silicow Valley.

Citrus's picture

Agreed. There is a correlation between the increasing academic rigor at Ohio State and Columbus managing so well during the recession. If Ohio State takes it to the next level, there will be a dramatic increase in the Central Ohio economy.

Haha Silicow Valley. I imagine this becoming at thing.

William's picture

"Silicow Valley" should be a shirt. 

+1 HS
William's picture

Football is a child's game. As a student at OSU, I would take Stanford's academic and athletic situation over OSU's in a heartbeat. 

+2 HS
osupolo's picture

So, Ohio State would get a boost academically and play "Stanford football". Sounds like a win win to me. 

+4 HS
ISURVIVEDCOOPER's picture

I think it's relative.... I live in NYC and though I am happy withy degree from tOSU, most people I work with are from the Ivy League, top EU universities or small Liberal Arts schools that have strong academic reputations, and as much as I'd like to say how my education was great, these guys have a different standard... So it's relative to who you ask... Then again, these guys have no clue on the meaning of football tradition... More like rowing traditions or other less popular sports.

That said, I'm torn but leaning toward having the academic reputation over a 'slightly less' reputation of the football team given impact on careers and doors opening.

"I don't apologize for anything.  When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

+2 HS
KBonay's picture

THE University provided me with an education, an avenue to befriend some amazing folks and the opportunity to network with the largest alumni in the country. 

THE Football team provided me hypertension & drinking problems....

+2 HS
Denny's picture

I didn't meet my wife because of the football team. I didn't meet some of my best friends because of the football team. I didn't grow up because I attended some football games. I didn't learn what I wanted to do when I grow up because of the football team. I learned all of those things because I was at the university.

The university is and will always be far, far more important.

Taquitos.

+2 HS