Penn State Decimated by NCAA Sanctions

By Kyle Rowland on July 23, 2012 at 9:39a
210 Comments
No longer college football's winningest coach. 

For years the NCAA has been roundly criticized for not punishing college football’s powerbrokers harshly enough when a severe blow was warranted. Those criticisms can now rest.

On Monday, the NCAA hit the Penn State football program with a $60 million fine, four-year postseason ban and the vacation of all wins dating to 1998, effectively removing Joe Paterno from the top of the all-time wins list.

When Paterno was fired in November he was atop the list with 409 wins. Now he is credited with 298. Bobby Bowden assumes the top spot with 377 victories.

Penn State also must slash 10 initial scholarships and 20 total each year over a four-year period. Players will also be allowed to transfer immediately to another school. All combined, the penalties are akin to a living death penalty. Penn State will be afforded the opportunity to play in games, but any hope of being competitive is all but lost.

In statement, the NCAA said Penn State’s fine “must be paid into an endowment for external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university.”

NCAA president Mark Emmert and Oregon State president Ed Ray, also the chairman of the NCAA’s executive committee, revealed the penalties at a news conference NCAA headquarters in Indianapolis.

Emmert used the words “perverse” and “unconscionable” to describe the actions Jerry Sandusky and those involved in the cover-up.

"No price the NCAA can levy with repair the damage inflicted by Jerry Sandusky on his victims," Emmert said.

"We cannot look to NCAA history to determine how to handle circumstances so disturbing, shocking and disappointing. As the individuals charged with governing college sports, we have a responsibility to act. These events should serve as a call to every single school and athletics department to take an honest look at its campus environment and eradicate the 'sports are king' mindset that can so dramatically cloud the judgment of educators."

The NCAA’s actions were swift and decisive, coming a mere eight months after news first broke of the Sandusky scandal and 10 days after former FBI director Louis Freeh published an investigation of how Sandusky’s actions were hidden from the authorities and public by Penn State employees.

The Freeh report was highly critical of Paterno and other high-level university and athletic department employees. It said allegations of child sex-abuse made against Sandusky were concealed and said the motive was to keep the university and football program’s sterling reputation intact.

The most damning part of the Freeh report centered on university officials not alerting the appropriate authorities in 2001 after assistant coach Mike McQueary saw Sandusky committing a sexual abuse against a young boy in the showers at the Penn State football facility. That came three years after the university first became aware of initial allegations against Sandusky and two years after his sudden retirement.

The famed Paterno statue outside Beaver Stadium was removed Sunday morning.

The Big Ten also announced sanctions against Penn State, banning the school from appearing in the Big Ten Championship Game for four years and making the school forfeit its share of bowl revunue split evenly among the conference's 12 schools. The money, estimated to be approximately $13 million, will be donated to Big Ten area charities dedicated to the protection of children.

"Penn State University is a great institution and has been a valued member of the Big Ten Conference for more than 20 years," the Big Ten said in a statement. "Since early November 2011, it has been working very hard to right a terrible wrong.  There is more to be done. The intent of the sanctions imposed today is not to destroy a great university, but rather to seek justice and constructively assist a member institution with its efforts to reform. From this day forward, as Penn State continues to make amends, the Big Ten conference and its member institutions will continue to engage with them in every aspect of conference membership."

The NCAA’s timeframe and decision-making process was unprecedented in that a Committee on Infractions hearing never took place, nor was there an issue of allegations or university response. The process can take more than a year.

Instead, it was widely reported that Emmert had full authority to levy the punishment. The Freeh report was used as the document and investigation of record by both the university and NCAA. The report was commissioned by Penn State’s board of trustees.

The case has received attention from around the world due to the high-profile individuals involved, but also because of the uniqueness. None of the traditional NCAA rules were actually violated, but in terms of ethics and an institutional cover up, it was groundbreaking.

210 Comments

Comments

Seabass1974's picture

I think the punishment is about right. They should be glad it wasn't me in there though. I would have pushed for a little bit harsher penalties.

The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender. - Woody Hayes

O-H Kee Pa's picture

BIG sanctions coming later today. Can someone break down the exact number of schollies they're losing? Is it 10 in 2013, and 20 per year thereafter?

tennbuckeye19's picture

The way I understand it, its 10 this year, then 20 for the next 4years.

O-H Kee Pa's picture

So, it is in fact 90? If so, goddamn.

onetwentyeight's picture

Just turned on Mike & Mike on ESPN radio on the way to work and they said it was 60 total. (Disclaimer: I never listen to them but my phone was getting flooded with texts about this and I had to know what exactly the punishments were)

Ethan's picture

They lose 10 per year, so each class is capped at 15 players. They also lose 20 total, so the maximum amount of players on their roster is 65 (instead of 85) for the next 4 years

CincyOSU's picture

They can have more than 65 players on their roster, they remaining players must pay their own way or be on some sort of different aid from the school, ie academic scholarship.

Crimson's picture

15 incoming limit for 2013-2014 until 2016-2017 academic year
65 cap is 2014-2015 until 2017-2018
65 probably won't matter until 2017-18, if that.
Here's the link:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/20120723/21207232

tennbuckeye19's picture

Can Bill O'Brien leave Penn State without penalty? If I were him I would leave. There is no way when he took the job he could have anticipated something like today's ruling. He will hardly be able to field a team in the coming years. I wouldn't blame the guy for leaving.

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

Why leave?  He's getting paid well and no one will expect many wins.  He can golf all day.  Gravy.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Has it been confirmed that the NCAA will not receive a penny of the $60 million? Hope that's the case.

tennbuckeye19's picture

I'm pretty sure it was said that the fine will be given to organizations which deal with child abuse issues and will not go to the NCAA.

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

Urban's phone may be ringing quite a bit today

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

buckeyeEddie27's picture

its ten immediately and then 20 divided into the next four years.   right?

I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.

O-H Kee Pa's picture

Th is is what I'm trying to figure out as well. Is it 90? Is it 70? Or is it what you mentioned above?

UFest57's picture

buckeyeEddie27...yes, that is how I understand it to work out. I have a feeling that Urban will be picking up a recriut or two from all of this...

buckeyeEddie27's picture

ok, thanks ufe.   I think you're right about urban.   His cell has to be blowin up right now.

I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.

Rooster Buckburn's picture

that sounds like 30 total in the next 4 years.  Those saying 60 or 70 - am I missing something??

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

Holy.  Crap.  I don't know what to say.  Certainly harsher than I ever expected.  I can't disagree with them too much, though.  But DAMN.

Class of 2010.

Colby3333's picture

Welcome to NASCAR on astroturf.  The NCAA has now placed itself in new territory.  This is a criminal case, not an NCAA issue.  This is what you get when you mix ESPN into the equation and they gain more (ratings) from this punishment then any other party.  I would have rather have seen Congress intervene.  The only reason the wins are erased is to keep JoePA off the top and make the NCAA feel better about itself.  So political and so predictable in the times we live in.

jenks's picture

The NCAA can't do anything, but congress can? I don't follow your logic.

Seabass1974's picture

Actually it's an NCAA, Big Ten, Dept. of ED and Law Enforcement (maybe even more than that) issue.

The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender. - Woody Hayes

schooey's picture

"NASCAR on astroturf", well put. Agreed. 

Rooster Buckburn's picture

It absolutely is an NCAA issue.  PSU not only violated the 'morals' clause in the NCAA rulebook, but it also gained a competitive advantage by not reporting any of this - FOR 10+ YEARS.  Good grief people.

Colby3333's picture

Not sure where the competitive advantage was gained in any of this? The NCAA ruling on a criminal matter makes just about as much sense as Congress getting involved, thats the point. It is absurd. The NCAA has just utilized powers that have never been used before and people are okay with this. Two wrongs dont make a right. If morals and ethics were really the center of this, NCAA football and athletics would not exist.

BuckeyeBoyer85's picture

I disagree. The competitive advantage was gained in not reporting the sex abuse, thus avoiding bad press and the possibility of losing recruits. Plus the fact that PSU was built on "Success with Honor" makes it more of a sham. They recruited athletes with the "Penn State Way" pitch. Although I agree the NCAA took new punitive measures that would set a new precedent in power welding, the PSU scandal is in itself an unseen criminal AND institutional tragedy that needed strict measures. Do you really expect the NCAA to stand by and do nothing after hammering USC and OSU over monetary improprieties? Don't be coy, the NCAA is all-powerful and that is not what is on public trial here. The culture of football over children's safety is the problem and it is a federal crime, per the Cleary Act. Don't blame the NCAA, even if they took dictatorial measures to quash this epic failure of leadership.

Wayne Woodrow Hayes

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

due to the sanctions joe pa last win was against Winconsin in 97, and the QB of that team Mike McQueary

Hardly home but always reppin

buckeyeEddie27's picture

seems as though fate isnt without a sense of irony.    -i cant remember what movie thats from but its a great line.

I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.

Powers's picture

Good quote! It was Morpheus from the Matrix

buckeyeEddie27's picture

thats it!   thanks, that was drivin me nuts.

I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.

Paul's picture

Talk about Karma and cosmic irony!!!

There are winners and there are losers, and then there are "THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY"

FOOTBALL BUCKEYES!

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

I love the fact that they vacated every win that Paterno got from the start of when Paterno lost his integrity.  I thoroughly believe that was necessary to avoid this POS from being the most winning coach.  I'm just sad he died before it hit!  Rest in hell Joe

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

onetwentyeight's picture

I love how they did that too because it's actually a pretty toothless, imaginary 'punishment' compared to the concrete bans, schollie losses, fines, etc. Everytime something is vacated we always hear about how it doesn't "matter" because everyone will still remember, etc. Remember how USC just didn't seem to give a f*ck about the vacated wins? Because they're USC. What's genius about this is the PSU is probably the one school where this will ACTUALLY enrage the fanbase. They're the only school that obsesses unreasonably on these records and just taking a nuke to their record books will totally make them RAGE in a way no other fanbase would (in reaction to vacated wins). 

pompano buckeye's picture

128 - "They're the only school that obsesses unreasonably on these records..."  Are you KEEDING me?  Have you never read a UM blog...never, ever?  Ask any scUM fan about the winningest progaram of all time, and in spite of the fact that they have to go clear back to the flag-football game on the Ark  (they will point out that the Wolverines won...) they never fail to scream about all of their wins.  Other than that, you are correct. 

“...indomitable in victory, insufferable in defeat.” Woody Hayes

USMCBUCKEYE82's picture

Sweet the Big Ten just added another IU to their ranks!!! Way to go happy valley. Penn State you should now chant we are IU#2!!!

Run_Fido_Run's picture

IU will roll PSU over the next 5-10 years. The Big Ten added another Youngstown State.

onetwentyeight's picture

Random Crazy prediction of the day: 
If you're Notre Dame, this is perfect chance for you to weasel your way into the B1G without giving up your pride by looking as if you're begging to get in/giving up your VAUNTED independent status. Sure ND is doing fine now but down the road, what with super conferences and ever-expanding playoffs looming, they know they'll eventually have to join up. However, if they do so now while we push PSU out, they get to smugly paint it as "Oh, you plebes NEEDED us to replace PSU and we'll GENEROUSLY chip in and act the savior", etc. 

SPreston2001's picture

I honestly think ND is too terrified to join a conference....

Bucksfan's picture

Appropriate.  The reactions from former players and current students they're showing on BTN is absolutely astounding.  They still don't get it.  I really wish they weren't in the Big Ten.  They're certifiable.

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

It is just astounding!  They seem to disagree with an investigation that interviewed 400 or more people and reviewed millions of documents and emails that point to a disgustingly corrupt and vile group of leaders, including Paterno.

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

btalbert25's picture

The kicker is, Penn State hired Freeh because of all of this.  It isn't as if the Freeh report was an investigation by a rogue journalist.  Wasn't he the head of the FBI for a while?  This is someone who had nothing to gain by drumming up some BS report.  His company is reputable and had a lot to lose, by coming up with something that was false.  It just kills me that the fans and former players are so outraged by the report, when these guys were working on Penn State's Dime.  Outrage of a report that their school payed for is just ludicrous

Poison nuts's picture

This whole "no one has all the facts" bullshit being spit out by every Penn Stater is becoming a little disgusting. They will say anything in order justify their belief in a man who covered for Sandusky. Nobody likes being wrong but this is a shining example of not how to act when you find out your hero is not such a great guy.

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

avail31678's picture

The bowl and postseason bans are almost redundant in that with all those schollies lost (and the likely large number of recruits that jump ship), PSU will be lucky to win 6 games any time soon. 

beserkr29's picture

Don't forget current players.  Some may stay loyal, but it is hard to see underclassmen and some of the upperclassment wanting to stick around to basically play for the chance to avoid getting hurt.  Going to be a very dark period for Penn State.

Sean N's picture

Braxton was OK last year as a freshman. But if you're Meyer and someone like Matt McGloin is now availabe don't you have to get on a plane right away?

cplunk's picture

Braxton is better than McGloin. 

flipbuckeye's picture

But... we could use the moxie.

onetwentyeight's picture

If ole Tressss was still in charge, I'd be legit. worried we'd go after Moxie McGloin. 

Oakland Buckeye's picture

Bahahaahaha - Moxie McGlion should stick. or Ginger Mcgloin...

cronimi's picture

Maybe ol' Moxie will end up at Akron..... 

Jugdish's picture

No. Let him go to Wisky. We don't have room and they are not Buckeyes.
 
Edit: I missed it.

Remember to get your wolverine spade or neutered. TBDBITL

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

Players transferring because of this will not count against our numbers.  We can grab as many as we can!!!  When Urban gets done dancing - he will be working the phone relentlessly.

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

bassplayer7770's picture

Additionally, the NCAA is considering waiving scholarship limits for programs to which these football student-athletes transfer, provided they reduce proportionately in the next year. For example, the limit is 25 new scholarships per year to a total of 85 scholarships. If the limits are waived in 2012-13 to accommodate one Penn State student-athlete who wishes to transfer to a particular school already at the limits, in 2013-14 the school will be limited to 24 new scholarships and 84 total scholarships 

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/20120723/21207234

jenks's picture

Will they waive limits on schools who have punitive limits? I mean, I see where it makes sense for schools who aren't currently being punished, but that would effectively vacate the NCAA's punishment on OSU, USC, and similar schools, which I doubt they want.

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

Moxie aside, no, f*** him, Braxton is so much better.

Class of 2010.

OSUBias's picture

Wait...this is a joke right? We have enough moxy on the team already.

Slider...you stink

Sean N's picture

Yes. Definitely a joke. 

TNBuckeye1421's picture

Braxton was OK??? What are you talking about... this kid stepped in and was the the only reason we won the games that we did... What happened when he got hurt in Nebraska? Played lights out at tsun. Sure he had some freshman mistakes and needs to work on his throwing but what freshman doesn't... McGloin is a turnover king and could not run Meyers offense.

goodlifesean's picture

From the NCAA:
Institutional control refers to the efforts institutions make to comply with NCAA legislation and to detect and investigate violations that do occur. NCAA member institutions are obligated to maintain appropriate levels of institutional control.
 
If you can tell me that there was institutional control here and having a rapist running around campus wasn't done to keep the football program safe and prosperous, then yes the NCAA got over involved. I don't think anyone can tell me that though. 

4dorr's picture

The powers at PSU covered the rapes up knowing that if this got out it would cause damage to the football program and image of JoePa.  Would you like more connections?

Tomorrow

Jack Fu's picture

I am not going to bother to look up whether or not your quote "from the NCAA" is correct, but the problem as I see it is that "institutional control," as you have defined it above, refers to institutions making efforts to comply with NCAA legislation, not criminal or civil codes. How did the cover-up fail to comply with NCAA legislation? It was possibly criminal and undoubtedly will lead to civil liability for those involved, but that's what the courts are for. What "NCAA legislation" did PSU fail to comply with? What "NCAA legislation" did they not make efforts to comply with?

AC1972's picture

While I beleive the NCAA needed to do something (and something with teeth), I am still struggling with what exact NCAA legislation PSU broke.
This is a serious question.  Lack of institutional control as stated above would indicate that PSU did not monitor the breaking of NCAA legislation.  What NCAA rules, did PSU break?
Can someone please find out?
Again, I beleive something needed to be done, but take the emotion of the PSU context out, and you have an organziation that appears to be levying a penalty "just becasue we need to do something", and not for a specifc violation of rules or laws.  If that is the case, the precendent of this ruling is extremely scary.  Society abides by the rule of law for a reason.
Please someone point out the NCAA rule that was broke, which the NCAA has the legal right to enforce?
Is it appropriate? No debating that what happened is serious and PSU as an instituion f'd up.  However, I don't want the NCAA to start penalizing in cases where there is not a clear violation.  Could be any member school, and for a less serious matter.
I don't want anyone commenting that I don't get it...I get it, I have three kids and if it was my kids I would want the place to burn down.  I am simply asking a question, because there is a fine line between doing what's right "because", and abusing power.

Jack Fu's picture

Agreed on all counts. To paraphrase Bilas's twitter, the NCAA stepping in here accomplishes absolutely nothing, and raises quite a few questions about what exactly the limits of their authority are.

CowCat's picture

The way I see it is Penn State was using the cover up to maintain an "advantage"  in recruiting.   They were using Paterno's wins and selling a BS squeeky-clean image to land top-tier recruits in order to stay at the top of the game.
This hypocrisy can be seen in the notes McQueary sent to recruits after TatGate -- this was the same guy who saw the 2001 shower incident first hand, after all!  So, it was OK for them to sell a lie to recruits and kick us while we were down, in order to gain an advantage?
Had Penn State acted on the allegations in 1998, it's reasonable to guess that there would have been a serious scandal / fallout from the news.   Also, it's unlikely that Sandusky turned into a child molester suddenly in 1998 -- So only 14 years of vacated wins could be seen as getting off lightly.  It could be just the tip of the iceberg. 
 

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

4dorr's picture

Perfect punishment for PSU!  Removed Joe from the books back to 1998, the cover up was a football decision from day one!

Tomorrow

741's picture

Wow. 
Initially this felt like way more punishment than I would have believed possible, but the more I process it the more it seems the level of the punishment is about right.
(Full disclosure: I still have not read the whole Freeh Report.)

4dorr's picture

I only read the first 100 pages.

Tomorrow

741's picture

I read 63 or so pages I think.

J.Mo's picture

Joe Paterno was like the Queen of England (head position, didn't do anything) from '98 to 2011 so not like he deserved those wins anyways. Well maybe he did stuff from like '98-2000 or so.

William's picture

Good. This is deserved. Has anyone checked out BSD? I took a peak, and the commentary is sickening.

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

I have and agree!  They are absolutely in denial and are delusional! 

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

BrewstersMillions's picture

"The hotter the fire, the stronger the steel"-Matt McGloin via Twitter.
EFF YOU MATT.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

Jdadams01's picture

McGloin has to act resolved for PSU because no other D1 school wants him.

OSUBias's picture

Assume he's talking about the flames of hell, where the "deity" that was the previous coach, is now roasting. And the steel must be the frames of those coke bottle glasses.

Slider...you stink

flipbuckeye's picture

Sounds like a line he uses when girls find out he's a natural redhead.

NC_Buckeye's picture

Surely the Paterno family has released a press release on the NCAA sanctions. They've issued statements on everything else re the Sandusky cover-up.
BTW, I think McGloin is the biggest douchebag on a Big Ten roster. I've heard things that make me want to see if I can knock him unconscious. (I know what you're thinking. A bigger d-bag than Denard. From what I hear... yes, he's the top.... Denard's up there though.)

Nick's picture

His teammates would agree for they have already done this

AltaBuck's picture

 Sexual abuse is reprehensible, especially when it involves children, and no one starting with Joe Paterno condones or minimizes it. The horrific acts committed by Jerry Sandusky shock the conscience of every decent human being. How Sandusky was able to get away with his crimes for so long has yet to be fully understood, despite the claims and assertions of the Freeh report.
The release of the Freeh report has triggered an avalanche of vitriol, condemnation and posthumous punishment on Joe Paterno. The NCAA has now become the latest party to accept the report as the final word on the Sandusky scandal. The sanctions announced by the NCAA today defame the legacy and contributions of a great coach and educator without any input from our family or those who knew him best.
That the President, the Athletic Director and the Board of Trustees accepted this unprecedented action by the NCAA without requiring a full due process hearing before the Committee on Infractions is an abdication of their responsibilities and a breach of their fiduciary duties to the University and the 500,000 alumni. Punishing past, present and future students of the University because of Sandusky's crimes does not serve justice. This is not a fair or thoughtful action; it is a panicked response to the public's understandable revulsion at what Sandusky did.
The point of due process is to protect against this sort of reflexive action. Joe Paterno was never interviewed by the University or the Freeh Group. His counsel has not been able to interview key witnesses as they are represented by counsel related to ongoing litigation. We have had no access to the records reviewed by the Freeh group. The NCAA never contacted our family or our legal counsel. And the fact that several parties have pending trials that could produce evidence and testimony relevant to this matter has been totally discounted.
Unfortunately all of these facts have been ignored by the NCAA, the Freeh Group and the University.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/statement-paterno-family-ncaa-sanctions-16838313#.UA2sxKDhdVA

I have been known on occasion to howl at the moon. - Crash Davis

Poison nuts's picture

Had a feeling it would be harsh...These are tough penalties no matter how you view it. Bobby Bowden likes it for sure.

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

Jugdish's picture

Lou Holtz said that O'Brien should tell his players not to go elsewhere because they would not be welcome with open arms. I hope O'Brien is not a dick and use underhanded tactics to keep his players. It is going to be tough for PSU, now just deal with it.

Remember to get your wolverine spade or neutered. TBDBITL

OSUBias's picture

That gnome creeps me out. Like the travelocity one. Cool hat though, I would rock that.
I'm assuming O'Brien is going to make an emotional pitch. Let's show them who PSU men really are, what we value, how we act, and how we play football. Nobody believes in us, but as long as we believe in each and stay true to this team blah blah blah.
It has to be a play to emotions doesn't it? Because any rational analysis would tell the players to leave in droves.

Slider...you stink

Doc's picture

I hope the B1G dumps them today.  They need to go away.  The sooner the better.

"Say my name."

CincyOSU's picture

Not possible as this kills the BIG Championship game, not to mention creating a scheduling nightmare. Not saying this isn't a future possiblity, but for at least this year and next they aren't going anywhere.

hail2victors9's picture

The B1G Championship game is killed this year, anyway.  They need to take the top two teams from either division instead of one from each.  They have to get rid of the divisions or realign them.  I think the leaders was the weaker division to begin with, but now you're looking at a 2 horse race starting next year, and Wisconsin probably can't keep up.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Hail, I like and respect you, but please do not start preemptively whining about this year's lopsided divisions. I have no issue with a realignment begining in 2013 - probably makes a lot of sense.
But this year you're stuck with Michigan, MSU, Iowa, and Nebraska brutally battling amongst themselves for one invite to the Badger Invitational.
For you to even imply that some pre-butthurt might be percolating ALREADY suggests a lack of confidence in the 2012 - 2013 Wolverines. Sorry, but an old-school Michigan team would have no trouble with that division.

CincyOSU's picture

I don't think he was whining at all, at least about UM. His point is very valid...THIS year Wisc is basically guaranteed a spot in the title game due to sanctions at PSU and OSU. I think if an OSU fan posted this opinion it would've been met with a diff response.

btalbert25's picture

Meh, maybe not whining but definitely implying that it's not fair that the next several y ears the leader's division will basically be an OSU/Wisconsin battle.  I'm not sure, though, that it ever would of been much more than that anyway.  I'd argue with michigan starting to recruit their own state and Ohio Better, that MSU will be mostly irrelevant like they've always been in the coming years and that the other division will be a Michigan and Nebraska or occasionaly Iowa.  I don't see a long list of contenders over there either really. 

rdubs's picture

I actually thought the divisions were well aligned, see below...
Ohio State - ttun
PSU - Nebraska
Wisconsin - MSU
Illinois - Iowa
Purdue - Northwestern
Indiana - Minnesota
Obviously this is shaken up a bit now that PSU will be down for a while.  And sure there will be fluctuations, but you can't go messing with the alignment based on cyclical success.  This year will be an anomaly, but I would leave it alone for now.  Because either way one division is going to have PSU in it which should be an easy win for the top teams every year.

hail2victors9's picture

Didn't mean to come across whiney, and I do agree RDUBS that it was aligned very well.  And yes, I agree that you can't just constantly change alignment to keep things on an even playing field.  But, how many comments have we seen on 11W to the effect of: This will make PSU non-competitive for the next 5 to 20 years?  Clearly, OSU is just a one-year ban with little to no affect on future years.
I personally expect to see Wisconsin and MSU both slide and Nebraska take an upswing.  I guess I just feel like Penn State should be replaced by a Oklahoma, ND, or VaTech type of school because PSU will become just another bottom feeder sooner than later.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Cincy/Hail: I was just teasing Hail - semi-sarcasm, semi-ribbing, although I can see how that didn't come through (sarcastic "tone" often gets lost in email and/or internet comments). 
Hail believes that Michigan is going to win the West Division (or whatever it's called) this year and go like 10-2 or 9-3. I have Michigan finishing 3rd or 4th in the division and going 8-4 or even 7-5. So, I was just giving him a hard time - i.e., if Michigan is as good as he is predicting, they should be able to make it through the "group of death" and into the Wisconsin Invitational.  
In the mid-to-long term, yes, they probably should realign after what went down today. Plus, if they put Michigan and Ohio State back into the same division, we won't have to worry about them messing with The Game (like moving it to earlier in the season).
Or - purely hypothetically (probably not going to happen), replace PSU with ND and the divisions are pretty good again.

hail2victors9's picture

Still nowhere near the gimmee for USC every year.  The have the challenge of competing with the likes of Arizona, ASU, Colorado, UCLA, and Utah.  Those 5 combined for a whopping 27 wins, last season; an average of 5.4 wins (below the bowl eligible threshold).  For comparison sakes, Legends bottom 5 = 36 wins, 7.2 avg and Leaders bottom 5 = 30 wins, 6.0 avg.
I hope it never gets that bad in the B1G.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

Poison nuts's picture

Yeah RDubs - they were actually aligned very well.

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

I'm not sure that the Leaders was weaker to begin with, but obviously, it is now.  OSU and PSU were supposed to be the Big 2 in the Leaders, with Michigan and Nebraska being the Big 2 in the Legends.  Wisconsin could potentially jump into that role, but they're not consistently good enough to always be there.  If you think historically, the divisions are a good balance.  Recently, though, and with what is happening to PSU, not so much.
If the B1G is really going to 9 conference games (I forget if they are or not), they can get rid of the divisions for all I care, since we'll be back to not playing 2 of the teams in the regular season.  I've never been a fan of those or conference championship games (unless two teams tie for the best conference record and did not play each other, then I think there has to be one).  I think a season-long display of performance from conference record is a better indicator of who should be the conference champion than a one-off game where anything could potentially happen, possibly between teams with unequal conference records that may have already played each other.

Class of 2010.

OSUBias's picture

Am I the only one that thinks the monetary penalty was too small? It's PSU, they can pay it however they want, they have an endowment (this is off memory so I hope it's not too far off) somewhere in the 4-5 billions of dollars. I posted this in a different forum too, or maybe the poll, but I'd like people's thoughts. If the NCAA and PSU are trying to help this problem by throwing money at child abuse, let's make it an astronomical amount of money that will both a) make a serious difference, and b) maybe actually sting the university a little bit. $60M doesn't seems like enough to do that. Maybe it will do part A, but certainly not part B.

Slider...you stink

cplunk's picture

Their endowment is 183 billion, not 4-5 billion.
http://live.psu.edu/story/54960
 

cplunk's picture

1.83 not 183- can't type apparently

onetwentyeight's picture

WELL on BSD they've speculated the total cost of the civil suits, using the Catholic cases as a reference point. ~100million, which they confidently predicted the endowment would cover. Add in this 60m and yeah to me it's still chump change in the grand scheme of things. Remember, 60m is supposed to be ONE YEAR of revenue. ONE. 

tennbuckeye19's picture

I get what you're saying. But the 60 million is the estimated total of a year of revenue from football, but with these sanctions they stand to lose A LOT of money in the coming years with how bad the teams will be. 
It might sound small, but remember Penn State will be sued for MUCH more money in the coming years by the victims and their families. 

OSUBias's picture

I guess I'm thinking that PSU losing money is only accomplishing one part of a two part goal: punishing the university and helping victims. Specifically, the victims of this tragedy or going to get huge civil suits, but obviously that doesn't make what happened to them any better or any less painful/scarring/traumatic. I see the fine portion of this as their effort to help a broader base of kids, and I think they should be putting more effort into that front. Yeah, PSU is going to lose money on lost revenue and lost civil suits, but when the dust settles from that, what difference have they made in the grander scheme of things? The only piece of this that's doing anything long term to help victims is the 60M. And i think it should be larger. That's all.

Slider...you stink

OSBuckeye222's picture

So, will Jim Delany and the Big Ten schools agree to remove the division names of "Legends" and "Leaders"? I never liked them and thought of them as arrogant! I believe after what happen with Jim Tressel and of course now with Penn State and Joe Paterno this should be very humbling to the Big Ten Conference. Dont get me wrong though, I love tOSU and the Big Ten!
I preferred the division names of "The Great Lakes" and The Great Plains"!

bukyze's picture

"The Great Lakes" .....  hmmmm ....  puts me in the mood for a Burning River.

OSUBias's picture

It's 5 o'clock somewhere

Slider...you stink

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Great Lakes Monster = Maker of Men

bassplayer7770's picture

Amen!  That stuff is delicious!

hodge's picture

So much this.  One of my favorites from GLBC.  Their Blackout Stout is orgasmic, as well.

hodge's picture

The problem is that grographically, this division is loaded one one side.  Even with the addition of Nebraska, you have to split Michigan and Ohio State.  At any given time, they're the two front-runners in the league.  To maintain that competitive balance, they needed to be split up, and--unless you wanted North and South divisions (which would still need to be geographically gerrymandered to maintain equivalency)--they needed to be separated by other means: hence Legends and Leaders.

OSUBias's picture

Splitting OSU-Michigan had to be done for competitive balance, for sure. Otherwise you get the Big 12 North (pre-realignment) where the winner of the OSU-Michigan side just won the champ by default (with the random occassional good Wisky/MSU teams at least making it a game).

Slider...you stink

NC_Buckeye's picture

The only good that could come out of Sandusky Cover-up == B1G changing division names to "Great Lakes" and "Great Plains". lol

BrewstersMillions's picture

ESPN really missed the ball on a killer headline.
"Better off Dead" would have been GAAAANGSTER. Instead we get "Penn St. Penalized"

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

toledobuckeyefanjim's picture

Does anyone out there remember ESPN's headline when the NCAA announced its penalties on the Buckeyes? I wouldn't be surprised that it was not as tame (and lame) as the one for Penn State.

jenks's picture

Any news on the B1G presser? I can't seem to find any info on what they're sasying.

BuckeyeChief's picture

Wow, just wow. Trying to get BSD to load, interwebs are ATROCIOUS were I am...the one PSU fan i am stationed with said they should've got a 2 year death penalty...at least he is level-headed.

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

TLB's picture

I was trolling there just to read.  I don't like the gloating they gave us so won't give it back to them.
Just looking at the comments, they are having a hard time processing the fact that the entire administration covered up criminal acts.

TheBadOwl's picture

There's a whole thread along the lines of "What if Curley and Schultz are found innocent and the Freeh report is found bogus?" Except they're stating it as if they expect it to happen, and like they ACTUALLY think Freeh was lying.
 
They're also calling for the new president of Penn State to resign, and the entire board of trustees to be fired for agreeing to the penalties. And apparently, a LOT of people have been flooding their president's phone lines, demanding a resignation. These people are so delusional.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

avail31678's picture

Wow.  That's way beyond denial.  It'd be one thing if one said, "This report could be bogus, I'm not going to give up on my school just yet..."  But they're actually demanding resignations!
Someone else said it on here, and I don't knot if it's true, that PSU actually hired Freeh. 
So delusional.

superbuck's picture

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE PENN ST BE TOSSED FROM THE BIG

OH-IO

BuckeyeChief's picture

Agreed. They seem to cling to the "woe is me, nobody likes me, we're better off in the Big East" attitude 24/7.

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

jenks's picture

It's always "the refs have always been out to get us in the B1G" or "nobody has ever liked us in the B1G" or "the B1G administration never treated us right" or "the other coaches were always mean"
You couldn't be more right about the woe is me attitude over at BSD

onetwentyeight's picture

I always felt it was a "we have no natural rivals in the B1G so we always tried to start sh*t up with OSU" , coupled with some "hay we're a legendary program that used to be INDEPENDENT and beat Miami once when they wore combat fatigues".
 
Btw, remember when wearing combat fatigues made Miami the "bad" guys? Simpler times.

luckynutz's picture

Can't fault a kid for trying to show support and loyalty to his school. I feel for the victims of sanduskys pedophili, and hope that the men who kept their voices and cries for help from being heard and stood in the way of justice for those children. Those men now will have this as their legacy...as morally bankrupt fools who's own arrogance and desire for the ncaa record books led to the basic levelling of penn states program. It won't heal the wounds, but it will hopefully begin the process of changing the culture of deceit and immoral acts surrounding state college, pa. I also feel bad for the players currently at penn state. Think that the ncaa has pretty much given the death penalty under the guise of a hefty fine, crippling scholly reductions and basically telling any kid currently there you will not have a chance to win anything of an significance here. And we will let you leave now with no penalty. The death penalty would most definitely been the lesser of two evils here.

UFest57's picture

I would love to see a grey box update on a flipped recruit. Anyone worth bringing over?

jenks's picture

Press release from the B1G:
http://www.bigten.org/genrel/072312aaa.html

Today, we have read the NCAA release on Penn State University. We note in the release, and have independently confirmed, that Penn State has accepted the factual findings in the July 12, 2012 Report of the Special Investigative Counsel prepared by Louis Freeh and his firm (the Freeh Report). Based on the findings, as accepted by Penn State, we fully support the actions taken by the NCAA. Further, following a thorough review of the Freeh Report, the COPC has voted to impose the following additional sanctions on Penn State, effective immediately:
1. Censure: The accepted findings support the conclusion that our colleagues at Penn State, individuals that we have known and with whom we have worked for many years, have egregiously failed on many levels--morally, ethically and potentially criminally. They have failed their great university, their faculty and staff, their students and alumni, their community and state--and they have failed their fellow member institutions in the Big Ten Conference. For these failures, committed at the highest level of the institution, we hereby condemn this conduct and officially censure Penn State.
2. Probation: The Big Ten Conference will be a party to the Athletic Integrity Agreement referenced in the NCAA release, and will work closely with the NCAA and Penn State to ensure complete compliance with its provisions over the 5 year term of the Agreement.
3. Ineligibility: As referenced in the NCAA release, Penn State's football team will be ineligible for postseason bowl games. It will also be ineligible for Big Ten Conference Championship Games for four years, a period of time that runs concurrently with the NCAA postseason bowl ban imposed this morning.
4. Fine: Because Penn State will be ineligible for bowl games for the next four years, it will therefore be ineligible to receive its share of Big Ten Conference bowl revenues over those same four years. That money, estimated to be approximately $13 million, will be donated to established charitable organizations in Big Ten communities dedicated to the protection of children.

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Where's # 5? The one where they kick them out of the conference.........

Hoody Wayes's picture

I wouldn't be surprised if the B1G reserves the right to review the standing of all members and hold another vote. These actions by the B1G may only delay the inevitable and set up the announcement of Penn State's dismissal, at the end of the 2012 season.

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Why give them a season though?

Hoody Wayes's picture

Dumping them now, would be complicated. The cynic in me is lead to believe the B1G would want to buy itself time to - not only, launch Penn State - but find a suitable replacement. 

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

But haven't we been courting several teams over the past year or so?  Notre Dame seems like the logical choice.  Replaces some of that revenue that was just lost and then some maybe.

tennbuckeye19's picture

I don't think Notre Dame is the answer. And I don't think they are close to being interested in joining a conference.

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

I agree that they may not have an interest, but why wouldn't Notre Dame be the answer?

Hoody Wayes's picture

The B1G dropping PSU is a real possibility. Remember, criminal/civil cases have yet to be tried. Plus, there's the Department of Education. The DOE's judgment of PSU - in light of the school's many Clery Act violations - could result in the suspension of its participation in Federal Student Loan Programs. In light of all this, I'm sure the B1G could justify dismissing PSU.

OSUBias's picture

They should take all of the bowl money they got from '98-'11 too. And maybe donate whatever equivalent salaries the people implicated in this scandal received during that period of time as well.

Slider...you stink

SPreston2001's picture

So basically they cant recieve their share of bowl money? Any other additional sanctions im not getting?

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

What's really additional other than donating their revenue?  I'm slightly dissapointed by this.

Hoody Wayes's picture

From BSD:
"On the upside
We should be able to beat Ohio University and end our 108 game losing streak. That’s something to look forward to.
by tzuker on Jul 23, 2012 10:34 AM EDT reply"

Buckeyefan52's picture

Wait, does this mean that we didn't have a losing season last year?

tennbuckeye19's picture

As far as I know, vacated wins don't give a win to the losing team. 

Buckeyefan52's picture

Yeah but we are 6-6 instead of 6-7

tennbuckeye19's picture

It still counts as a loss for us but not a win for them. The game still happened and we lost. Penn State won but that win is now vacated. Our record stays the same. 

SPreston2001's picture

In my book we were still 6-7. The games were played on the field and we played terrible last year....

MDBUCK's picture

It does mean we were outright champs in '05 and '08

buckeyechad's picture

I'm actually curious if this is true? That's awesome if it is

Poison nuts's picture

Actually - that is their lone win in all that time. They were being coached by Bradley so they gave them the win...sucks it was against us. We were 6-7 last year no matter how you slice it.

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

Hasbro's picture

"living death penalty"
This is the new Zombie Penalty.

chitown buckeye's picture

Quick Trademark that!

"I'm having a heart attack!"

BuckeyeEd's picture

Big Ten Leaders (Still hate that name) just got real weak. Badgers are a shoe in this year, with OSU being banned from The Big Championship game as well as PennState. Look for Many Big Championship Games for Urban and The Boys in years to come. This Year I  would place a Grand on the Badgers. Is it too late to petition to get rid of that name.....Leaders.....

btalbert25's picture

Wow, Desmond Howard with a nice tweet and giving a nice opinion on ESPN now.  This is a crazy day.  Howard and Jesse Palmer make sense?  WTF is going on here.  Aww thank goodness Lou Holtz opened his mouth and didn't make any sense.  All is right with the world again lol.

GlueFingers Lavelli's picture

Well that was a fun scandal, When's the next one. Love me some off season drama. Hopefully TMZ can merge with ESPN and get their own segment. Maybe Skip Bayless can host?
Something tells me we might be hearing big news in the case of Craig James killing 5 hookers while at SMU. Mybe even Mark Way wearing womens underwear.

Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.

nickma71's picture

I didn't think they would come down like they did vacating the wins and the huge fine. I am really glad to be wrong in this case.

NoVA Buckeye's picture

These penalties... seem just about right. Can players transfer and play immediately?

The offseason begins when your season ends. Even then there are no days off.

rdubs's picture

yes, that is standard procedure with a bowl ban

OSUBias's picture

Did our guys get that option?

Slider...you stink

rdubs's picture

Yes, but it would have only been seniors this year and I think most people would not want to transfer for one year.  Also a chance to be coached by Meyer would be exciting.  

OSUBias's picture

Interesting, I didn't realize they had an out. Good message about how excited kids are for the new regime that nobody dipped (or did someone that I forgot about?).

Slider...you stink

GoBucks713's picture

Im sorry if someone else already said this because I'm too lazy to read nearly 200 comments, but the death penalty couldn't come down from the NCAA because it would completely decimate every other Varsity sport that PSU offers. It would effect volleyball and soccer and golf and archery, etc. The death penalty will never come down on an revenue generating sport. Ever. That being said, the $60mm will definitely hurt the athletics department, but there's enough booosters that they will get the money, but maybe the golf team doesn't get all new equipment and maybe the football team will have to wear the same socks twice in a season. The ticket sales will still be there to keep the department afloat, but this is a huge penalty. I'm just glad that they still get to keep the rest of the sports.
 
As far as the Statue being torn down, I for one don't understand erecting a statue commemorating someone that is still alive. Secondly, it needed to come down. If they didn't take it down, someone else would have illegally. Also, why have a monument to someone that allowed children to be hurt?
 
*endrant

-The Aristocrats!

klfeck's picture

Herbstreit said this is effectively a 10 year penalty on the football program because of scholarship loses. Can't say I disagree.

Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University

Bucksfan's picture

Could be a conservative estimate, too.

Buckeyefan52's picture

Lets stay classy, especially when we travel to state college. Home games there could be rough.

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Are you thinking the PSU fans will act worse than they already do?

Jdadams01's picture

This. We got a lot of grief from PSU fans, but that does not at all mean we should retaliate. Their punishments are harsh already, they don't need crap from us, too.

buckeyeEddie27's picture

Spot on.   

I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.

Buckeyes_Terrapins's picture

Also, there is no higher measure of a person than how they act when an opponent is down.  PSU is down.  Let us act better towards them during their MUCH worse time of pain than they did during ours.  They mock us for free tattoos?  We repect them and congratulate them on a hard-fought game (loss).  That's how classy people do things.

AltaBuck's picture

Cannot wait for the inevitable Paterno Family rebuttal press statement. I wish they would just STFU and crawl under a rock for the next 4 years.
 

I have been known on occasion to howl at the moon. - Crash Davis

Nappy's picture

So much butthurt at BSD.  I almost feel bad for them.  Almost.

Fan of bacon since 1981

cronimi's picture

I have some friends who are State Penn grads, and I was going to feel bad for the BSD commentariat ... until I saw the BSD post on tat-gate about Ohio State losing its moral compass and that was the difference between OSU and PSU, that PSU did things the right way. after reading that, I got really comfortable with the NCAA sanctions. 

Nappy's picture

Couldn't agree more. 

Fan of bacon since 1981

Irricoir's picture

What is the general opinion throughout Ohio right now? In SEC territory everyone is moaning stating that the penalty is too light. They want to see the death penalty. There is a lot of other talk but I haven't heard one broadcasting agency here state that the penalties were steep enough. I care about the victims but not enough about PSU to wish them greater punishment. I thought the punishment was pretty steep and fair but I also believe that if this were a lesser school, not so entrenched in tradition, that the death penalty would have been issued for the same egregious actions. You will never see the death penalty again.

I don't always take names when I kick ass but when I do, they most often belong to a Wolverine.

Bucksfan's picture

I think it's too soon to tell.  As far as SEC territory goes, this penalty could actually be worse and more damaging to a program like Penn State than a 1-year suspension of play.  The death penalty worked so incredibly at SMU because it is a small private college.  They didn't know what was going to happen as a result of that.  "Death Penalty" isn't even a good name for that...it's more of a "Nuclear Bomb Penalty."  But you're right, you'll never see it again.  Penn State's sanctions are going to be long and very tough to overcome.

BrewstersMillions's picture

I'm fine with this. I do have an issue with SEC folks thinking they got off easy. They didn't. Penn State got obliterated by this. When you start to play it out, the scholarship restrictions in concert with the bowl ban is devastating. How hard will recruiting be for at least the next 4 years when you have only a small handfull of schollies available and you have to sell your school without the possibility of a national championship to guys for the duration of their collegiate careers? Once that number starts to lessen (three years from now a kid will only have to lose one year of bowl games, and so on) you have to recruit kids to a team comprised of mostly walk ons who will have spent the last few years under the heel of Ohio State and Michigan and Wisconsin and MSU with HISTORIC beatings on the history books. (I am assuming in the next few years Penn State is going to lost a lot of games by bad scores). You are effectivley forcing them to start over.  Another interesting thing-this STILL isn't over for Penn State yet. What happens to Penn State football when it finally comes out of this coma. I'm presuming the civil action that is going to come will really hurt the University as a whole, then the football team as a secondary victim. What will remain of PSU when Civil Action is completed? They are in for a long, long dark few years. For Penn State, winter isn't coming......Winter is here. They are damaged beyond repair for at least a decade in my amateur opinion.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

Poison nuts's picture

It's a very serious, very tough penalty.

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

btalbert25's picture

Honestly, SEC country has the same parnaoia we're seeing out of PSU and it's fans right now.  They always think the world is out to get them.  A program in one place gets in trouble and they scream will if that were an SEC school they'd have been nailed, or got the death penalty.  Could you imagine the backlash in Alabama if over 100 of Bear Bryant's games were vacated?  The penalties Penn State got, basically bombed the program back to the Stone Age.  They're going to be bad, for a long time.  
These days, with TV money being what it is and a whole conference is tied to the contract, you can't very well give a TV ban.  It would hurt the whole conference.  Suspend play for a whole season and you absolutely crush the local economy and put people out of work.  Even if Penn State has 25-30,000 empty seats on a Saturday now, they'll still have 70-75000 people per weekend in town, that's a lot more t han 0 because football isn't being played for a season or 2.
I can't see how anyone would look at these penalties and say Penn State got off easy.  This is going to be a crushing blow.  I don't see, though, how it would make sense to take Penn State out of football and hurt the local economy and jobs it creates(as these people REALLY have nothing to do with the mess that happened up there) and the other 11 schools of the B1G, who would lose out on TV money. 

BuckeyeBoyer85's picture

I vividly remember the backlash against OSU for "Tat-gate", and the coverage on ESPN was non-stop. We were reviled as a "dirty program" and most of the criticism was leveled by the holier than thou PSU fans. "Success with Honor" "The Penn State way" and all the high horse ideals that was championed, is all for naught. I feel bad because we lost a high profile B1G team for years, which hurts the conference overall. However the intense hatred OSU received is fresh in my mind, so I have no pity for PSU. The fans on BSD are going through the stages of grief. Denial, anger, shock, confusion. All I hear from PSU fans is.." Not an NCAA issue" "not a football issue" "freeh report is an opinion" "Paterno did what he was required to do" "don't punish the players" and "JoePa made a mistake". Just sickening to see the blind following.

Wayne Woodrow Hayes

avail31678's picture

Agreed.  And I still remember when their fans threw crap at our band when they beat us back in '05 when they had their stupid "White-Out", and there were no scandals. 
When Tat-gate happened, I ate my humble-pie.  They need to eat theirs too.  I don't really care for PSU fans (most of them - I'm sure there are some good ones), and that started even before all this. 

NC_Buckeye's picture

All I hear from PSU fans is.." Not an NCAA issue" "not a football issue" "freeh report is an opinion" "Paterno did what he was required to do" "don't punish the players" and "JoePa made a mistake". Just sickening to see the blind following.

Don't forget "penalties will kill State College's local economy which relies on football" also "Paterno reported to head of PSU police force, Gary Schultz."
(Can't believe I had to debunk the latter one yesterday. For the record people -- Gary Schultz is not a sworn law enforcement officer. This is the equivalent of calling the town mayor to report a murder... when you know the mayor and victim were engaged in some shady business deals.)
 

CincyOSU's picture

Only a true Death Penalty would have killed the local economy. With PSU games still on Saturdays, those that may have been affected will now be spared.

Buckeyejason's picture

Well...that's one less foe to worry about. One less rival too get in our way and one less ridiculous fan base to spout how they have a "superior" program over ours.

BUCKEYES BABY!

BrewstersMillions's picture

Even though 12-7 in favor of the good guys would say we are clearly superior.
Where are my manners. It's 12-2 now!

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

cplunk's picture

Nope- they vacate the wins, but we still have the losses. Statistically, OSU is 12-7 versus PSU, but PSU is 2-12 versus OSU.

BrewstersMillions's picture

Derp. Thanks for the clarification.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

superbuck's picture

They basically got the death penalty . It will take 10-15 years for them to rebound from this . No real athlete with the hopes of getting into the NFL or wan'ts to be considered for the Heisman, or other super awards would consider going there. And most would not wan't to be affiliated with Penn State. So you might as well say they are dead no Death Penalty is needed. I do hope they get tossed from the Big 10 so we can hold our heads high. We don't need to be affiliated with baby rapers. I would like to see Sandusky set on the 50 yard line and take a hit from every defensive lineman in the Big 10

OH-IO

OSUBias's picture

They are the Walking Dead, or the Zombie Nittany Lions, for sure.

Slider...you stink

Hoody Wayes's picture

From BSD:
"Oh good.
NCAA is removing scholarship limits for teams that take PSU players. Poached PSU players will not count against the limit for other schools.
by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 23, 2012 9:57 AM EDT reply 

you can see Urban Meyer's boner from space
by swiggy04 on Jul 23, 2012 9:58 AM EDT up reply"

Poison nuts's picture

But I wonder if they will allow OSU to take the kids - with the current sanctions & all. I suspect they may say OSU cannot benefit the way others can. We'll see.

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

BED's picture

My reading of the NCAA presser was that you had to count the PSU refugee against next year's scholarship limit if you took one.

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009

Nappy's picture

Yep.  Better be selective if you're going to take someone, especially for schools that already have scholarship reductions in place.

Fan of bacon since 1981

Poison nuts's picture

Thank you.

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

I chuckled.  Hey, in bad situations like this, you need a laugh here and there.

Class of 2010.

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

For all those complaining about the PSU fans who understand that this is a huge unforgivable event, but think Joe Pa is pretty clean, why? What facts are there other than an email from Curley to Schultz (or vise versa) saying they talked to Joe and he wanted them to go straight to the source.  Does anyone remember Mark Chmura?  Why wouldn't Joe want to be 100% sure before destroying someone.  Should he have done something else in hindsight?  Hell yes.  But to say this man is burning in hell seems a bit harsh if that's all that report has other than the tons of Dorhmann type assumptions i read.  I hate Penn State fans, but on this, they seem right.  Unless someone else can come up with something from that report that has any substance damning Joe?  I've glanced through it twice and it doesn't seem very factual to me (on the JoePa being a problem related to the children victims.) There is another email mentioned, but all it seems to be is an email with Joe Pa as the subject, and the body of the email just says -- He wants an answer soon -- or something along those lines.  Could be completely unrelated to this. You could probably go through my emails and assume I am the Dark Knight if that's all it takes. 
I am in no way trying to defend what happened, I want Penn State out of the conference after this.  After glancing through the report, I'm sure the school could have done something more.  I'm also not trying to argue with anyone, I just don't understand why everyone is so pissed off at Joe (and his family) if that email is all there is.  I'm not talking about the assumptions made in the report, or what any media outlet is saying.  Any factual information (and a level headed response) would be appreciated.

hodge's picture

Well, based upon his emails listed in the Freeh report, his testimony to the Grand Jury would have been a complete fabrication (saying that he'd never heard of anything implicating Sandusky as a pedophile): seeing that he's been shown to have kept close tabs on Sandusky's '98 investigation and actively participated in the decision to not turn Sandusky over to authorities in '02.  Spanier's testimony was shown to have had "too many lies to count".

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

Thank you kindly.  That is pretty damning. 

tennbuckeye19's picture

FWIW: Former players (including Michael Robinson) have said that when they spoke with Joe Pa prior to his death, he still maintained that he didn't know anything, because if he did he would've done something about it. The man had been lying about all of this for so long that it sounds like he believed his lies to be the truth. 
If the Freeh Report information is true (which I believe it is), he lied about what he knew and when he knew up until the day he died. 

NW Buckeye's picture

I think Hodge hit the nail on the head.  There was sufficient evidence in the Freeh report to indicate that Mr. Paterno had knowledge of the Sandusky incidents in both 98 and 2001.  Yet, he told the Grand Jury that he had no knowledge of any such activities by JS.  This alone is perjury.  Also, in your previous posts (Is it Saturday Yet) you acknowledged that some "lady" said that Mr. Paterno did not want her to discipline athletes.  That "lady" was the Sr VP of Student Affairs at PSU who was forced out of her job by Mr Paterno because she wanted athletes to be held responsible for their actions just like any other students on campus.  Yet, the players involved in the 2007 brawl never had to face the consequences that any other student would have to face for the same actions.  While this revelation was not central to the NCAA sanctions, it did help paint the picture of an individual who treated his personnel as separate and above university policy.  He may have thought his justice was handed out instead of what normally would occur, but this overall policy is essentially what got him into trouble. 
As far as other hard evidence, you will probably not see much.  Freeh had to dig deep to find the emails that implicate Mr. Paterno.  These were emails that Spanier and Curley thought had been deleted, and in fact Spanier was suing to prevent them being used in the report.  Mr. Paterno did not use emails - as his family will readily admit and claim as their defense - as he conducted most of his business face to face.  When Dr Triponey (the lady you have referred to) tried to communicate her intentions via email, she did receive a response from Mr. Paterno via email, but it was from one of his assistant coach's accounts.  Funny that he could figure out how to have others send emails for him, but could not send them by himself.  (Sorry, I know you asked for a level headed response, but I just had to throw that in.) 
And, as far as the B1G and the NCAA acting swiftly on this - they actually were privy to the Freeh report as the investigation was going on.  The B1G had one of their Atty's in the Freeh group - so they and the NCAA were apprised of matters much sooner than the rest of us.  The "facts" that you are looking for are indeed in the full report, and the conclusions of the report are pretty much on target.  The report was accepted by PSU and the NCAA admitted that it was far more thorough than any investigation they could put forth. 
Lastly, one of the reporters interviewed on this matter on BTN kind of put it in perspective.  He was from the Harrisburg paper.  Basically he said that the premise that Mr. Paterno was as involved as the report suggest is really difficult for anyone who knew him as an icon from afar - in other words, the common PSU fan.  But, speaking as someone who knew him and had run ins with him from time to time the findings of the Freeh report may have been shocking, but were really not surprising.  He painted Mr. Paterno as a man who frequently cloaked his system in secrecy when someone was asking the wrong questions. 
I don't know if that helps or not.  I am not a Mr Paterno apologist or hater.  I do not like this entire situation.  I can see both sides here and understand the concern of too harsh of penalties (from both the PSU faithful and others like yourself), yet I also understand the cry for more severe sanctions from many others (both rival fan bases and non fans who just want PSU heavily sanctioned because of the nature of the crimes).  I have stated all along that the NCAA needed to get involved, and I thought the news conference today conveyed very eloquently why they needed to act.  Did the punishment fit the crime?  Time will tell.  One thing that is certain is that this has been the biggest University scandal ever.  And, I really believe that without football, this scandal never happens.  The administrators would have stopped JS long ago (most likely in '98 when they first found out) if he had been employed in any other capacity at PSU. 

Crimson's picture

+1
Nice summary for those who haven't read any of the Freeh report.
Also, Schultz had Sandusky documents removed from his office by his secretary, and it took about six months for investigators to find them (see pp. 69-70 of the Freeh report).

Is it Saturday Yet's picture

This is good info.  For the record, I never said the punishment was too harsh.  I do sort of feel bad for the kids who committed to this program though.

Doc's picture

Delaney didn't pull the trigger and boot them from the conference because of $.  He needs them as the "12th" team to have his championship game.  The problem with that is, the B1G doesn't have 12 real teams now.  The conference has been significantly weakened today.  State Penn is done for at least 10 years.  IU isn't getting any better either.  Minny is another bottom feeder.  Northwestern is middle of the road as is Purdont.  Those are 5 teams that aren't helping the rest of the B1G.  Happy Valley is a nuclear waste land as of now.  Who wants anything to do with them?  Even as a Buckeye fan I wouldn't be travelling there for a game.  Not this year for sure, but not anytime soon either.  Why go there for a game?  It is not going to be fun.  It is going to be a very sad reminder of what went on there.  To be honest I think all visiting teams fans should boycott PSU.  Watching the game this year on tv will be brutal as well.  Three plus hours of ncaa violations and JoePoo chatter.  For the good of the B1G they need jettisoned.  As long as PSU is in the B1G, we will be attached to this travesty.  Delaney needs to make a bold statement and wash his hands of this.

"Say my name."

onetwentyeight's picture

I'd like to think it's just a matter of time before we boot them, (aka have to find a replacement first aka delany is showing up at ND's front door holding a boombox over his head). 

LadyBuck's picture

I'm happy that the $60 million are going to charity and not the NCAA. That is a very sound decision. As for the rest, at least Penn State still has a football team and media rights. The Penn State faithful will still watch their games. Hopefully, the fan base doesn't start blaming the Big Ten for any of this. At least they have judgement now, and they can start moving on. 

FROMTHE18's picture

ha...Penn State lost a basketball commit yesterday...

pannich's picture

The Big Ten is going to have to move forward to strengthen the conference.  I don't know if keeping PSU is good/bad/right/wrong - probabaly too soon to know-- but moving forward I think they'll have to look at how to attract additional successful programs - (Like Nebraska) to keep the conference relevant. 

Buckeye living in SEC land. 

Buckeyeneer's picture

I don't think getting rid of Penn State is the answer. I think that is a knee jerk reaction. It is easy to say today we should get rid of them but what then. In 5 to 10 years when these sanctions are in the rear view they will eventually make it back to prominence and the last thing we would want is to have kicked them out and have them now in the ACC/Big East/SEC or whatever conferences are around at that point. If Notre Dame can live off of accomplishments from 20 years ago and older, I think Penn State will survive the bumpy decade ahead of them and with luck, they will be a viable member of the B1G.

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University

BED's picture

Yes to this.  Move forward, add Texas and ND, and keep the infinity billion dollars we make from TV deals in the conference.

The Ohio State University, College of Arts & Sciences, Class of 2006
The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, Class of 2009