NCAA Penn State Announcement Open Thread

By 11W Staff on July 23, 2012 at 8:55a
230 Comments
Mark Emmert will take an unprecedented step when he hands down a punishment to Penn State

Remember to stay classy, Buckeye fans.

Comments

FROMTHE18's picture

Very excited about this opportunity to listen to everyones opinions

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Before anything happens, I'm still in the boat that the NCAA is abusing their authority on this and overstepping their boundaries.  
And to further clarify this point, I think someone or something should have gotten involved, just not NCAA.

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jenks's picture

me too. but a lot of me also doesn't care.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

I understand the "don't care" aspect, but our sanctions are so fresh in my mind and I still have one foot on the "The NCAA is on an inconsistent powertrip" soap box.  I feel bad for the 99% of PSU that have done nothing wrong and will suffer because of the actions of a few.  They are in the same position as we were, just that the matter is infinitely more serious than ours was.

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O-H Kee Pa's picture

The biggest problem is no one knows who this should fall to. The BIG? The Dept. of Ed? The NCAA? Since there's no "Section 183.1: Addressing Massive Institutional Pedophilia" that anyone can refer to, naturally the NCAA (bolstered by the media calling for PSU to get the gallows, and the NCAA wanting to reassert itself) feels that it should step up. There's no real penalty that sufficiently and appropriately addresses this, unfortunately.  

cplunk's picture

I don't think it is overstepping the NCAA's bounds for them to rule/punish on this. A simple look at the PSU commits that ended up coming to OSU this off-season shows that the coverup had quite a bit to do with competitive advantage.
I do, however, think it is overstepping the NCAA's bounds for them to go ahead and punish without following their standard investigate-notify PSU-listen to PSU response-decide practices. I understand that is largely because they simply can't allow PSU to trot onto the field this year as though nothing happened and speed is an issue if they wish to allow PSU players to transfer, but I'm still uncomfortable with it.
 

Maestro's picture

Pretty sure the NCAA asked PSU to answer questions and received responses prior to making these decisions.

vacuuming sucks

FROMTHE18's picture

A lot about the idea that the sanctions are 'on par' or worse than the death penalty... i hope this isnt another example of poor reporting

Carolina Buckeye's picture

Talked to one of my closest friends last night who is a PSU fan, after listening to him spout off about ohio state and defend PSU,...i'm giddy excited for this

FROMTHE18's picture

i share your sentiment 

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

Mark Emmert is about to become the most hated man in PA

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

jenks's picture

a lot of psu fans do seem fairly delusional about all of this. can anyone quickly explain what their beef with the freeh report is? reading BSD, it's clear they don't like/trust it but i can't really tell why.

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

Here we go

Hardly home but always reppin

Charlotte Buckeye Chip's picture

This is going to be big.

~Charlotte Buckeye Chip

oregonianbuckeye's picture

FYI- Ed Ray was at Ohio St. from 1970-2003 as a professor of economics, then eventually Provost and Vice President before heading to Oregon State. 

FROMTHE18's picture

"not only does the NCAA have the authority to act in this case, but also the responsibility..." - couldnt agree more

jenks's picture

of course my feed cut out just before this started and i cant get it back.

FROMTHE18's picture

thus far, sounds like the NCAA is of the opinion that they absolutely have the power to punish Penn State... seems like the sanctions will be rough...hope so

LouBuck35's picture

RIP Penn State football.  Holy ban hammer.

I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Ed Ray just openly admitted that this was a UNIVERSITY problem/conspriacy.  UNIVERSITY problems are not NCAA jurisdiction. NCAA protects amateur athletics.  This is unprecedented and I hope the NCAA is ready to deal with other instances where coaches break laws, because media will apply pressure there as well.  Surprised that no one has mentioned Petrino...

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flipbuckeye's picture

I've been thinking the same exact thing throughout this whole ordeal, especially with Petrino's situation. Where do they draw the line?

chitown buckeye's picture

If you are of the mindset that by covering up Sandusky, they were gaining a competitive advantage by not taking bad publicity and recruiting stayed strong. Then that is the line. With Petrino it was a negative effect on him personally. He didnt gain or sustain recruiting or benefit from having a coach on staff that helped performance on the field. I think that is the difference.

"I'm having a heart attack!"

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

But they weren't obligated by the NCAA to report the Sandusky thing.  You can't punish them for not doing something that was not required.

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jenks's picture

The requirement was to be moral and ethical, and that they were not.

hodge's picture

The issue is that it was a coverup by the UNIVERSITY'S top tier, but 50% of that conspiring top tier was out of the athletic department, in Curley and Paterno.  I think the real smoking gun here is how Paterno was instrumental in not reporting Sandusky in 2002, thereby making a criminal case also an ethics violation in NCAA terms, to bolster a competitive advantage.

PortlyOSUMan's picture

This buildup is sounding pretty bad for PSU...

vidstudent's picture

*boom*

Nicholas Eckert

vidstudent

FROMTHE18's picture

ESPN is way ahead of the game, already posting sanctions... 4 year bowl ban, 60 million dollar fine, vacate all wins from 98-2011

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

OUCH - 60 Million

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

FROMTHE18's picture

10 schollies lost per year over 4 years

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

60 million 4 year bowl ban 10 per year scholly ban wowwwwwwwww

Hardly home but always reppin

Texas Buckeye's picture

And with that, a bomb has just been dropped on Penn State football.

It's true... We really are a bunch of nuts!
Go Bucks!

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

WOW - all records gone!!!  Nicely done!

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

all wins vacated from 98 to now wwwwwwowwwwwwww

Hardly home but always reppin

Wobble in our Shoes's picture

$60 million fine
1998-2011 wins vacated
40 total schollie lost
4 year bowl ban
5 year probation
All players can transfer without penalty

jenks's picture

oh my, didnt expect them to vacate

FROMTHE18's picture

5 year probation... thought itd be more...NCAA is going to investigate individuals and could add more punishments after legal proceedings... I like that 

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

I don't care what no one says this is the Death Penalty.

Hardly home but always reppin

flipbuckeye's picture

Wow. Unprecedented was an understatement.

dubjayfootball90's picture

JoePa no longer has that elusive 400th victory....

You can feed a bobcat all the chili it wants. That don't mean it's going to crap out diamonds.

jack's picture

congrats to Eddie Robinson, once again career leader in Div 1 college football victories with vacated wins from JoePa

Oakland Buckeye's picture

That'd be Bobby Bowden

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

What is the NCAA going to do Miami now?  Miami actually violated NCAA bylaws and snapped the idea of amateur athletics in half.

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flipbuckeye's picture

They SHOULD get hit harder because of their direct, blatant, and repeat violations. Will they? I don't know. Some awful things happened at PSU no doubt, but I think the severity of their punishment was influenced by the media and public's thirst for blood, which was very much warranted but not at the hands of the NCAA (IMO).

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

We share a similar opinion.  Now there needs to be some consistency in the NCAA in terms of UNC and Miami, both showing utter disgregard for the holy and pure nature of amatuer athletics.

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Maestro's picture

Do you know the NCAA by laws by heart?

vacuuming sucks

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Wow.

Read my entire screen name....

Maestro's picture

Just curious.  All you have to do is read a few of them to see that PSU egregiously vilolated several.
e.g.
2.1.1 Responsibility for Control. [*] It is the responsibility of each member institution to control its intercollegiate athletics program in compliance with the rules and regulations of the Association. The institution’s president or chancellor is responsible for the administration of all aspects of the athletics program, including approval of the budget and audit of all expenditures. (Revised: 3/8/06)
2.1.2 Scope of Responsibility. [*] The institution’s responsibility for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program includes responsibility for the actions of its staff members and for the actions of any other individual or organization engaged in activities promoting the athletics interests of the institution.
2.8.1 Responsibility of Institution. [*] Each institution shall comply with all applicable rules and regulations of the Association in the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics programs. It shall monitor its programs to assure compliance and to identify and report to the Association instances in which compliance has not been achieved. In any such instance, the institution shall cooperate fully with the Association and shall take appropriate corrective actions. Members of an institution’s staff, student-athletes, and other individuals and groups representing the institution’s athletics interests shall comply with the applicable Association rules, and the member institution shall be responsible for such compliance.
2.8.3 Penalty for Noncompliance. [*] An institution found to have violated the Association’s rules shallbe subject to such disciplinary and corrective actions as may be determined by the Association.
Unethical conduct by a prospective or enrolled student-athlete or a current or former institutional staff member (e.g., coach, professor, tutor, teaching assistant, student manager, student trainer) may include, but is not limited to, the following: (Revised: 1/10/90, 1/9/96, 2/22/01)
(a) Refusal to furnish information relevant to an investigation of a possible violation of an NCAA regulation when requested to do so by the NCAA or the individual’s institution;
11.1.2 R esponsibility for Violations of NCAA Regulations. Institutional staff members found in violation of NCAA regulations shall be subject to disciplinary or corrective action as set forth in the provisions of the NCAA enforcement procedures, whether such violations occurred at the certifying institution or during the individual’s previous employment at another member institution.
11.1.2.1 Responsibility of Head Coach. It shall be the responsibility of an institution’s head coach to promote an atmosphere for compliance within the program supervised by the coach and to monitor the activities regarding compliance of all assistant coaches and otheradministrators involved with the program who report directly or indirectly to the coach. (Adopted: 4/28/05)
I understand that this is uncharted waters for the NCAA, but you can't deny that the by laws of the Association allow for them to punish PSU in this case.  If Jerry Sandusky had been a history professor and the Dean of the History Dept had covered up for him the NCAA would have no business getting involved.  However, we know that wasn't the case and the NCAA was compelled to get involved.

vacuuming sucks

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

The problem I have with your argument is that all of these bylaws refer to to compliance and laws of the Association, not criminal laws. The NCAA does not and should not pretend to enforce criminal or moral law - it governs amateur athletics and athletes.  What happened at PSU had to with the breaking of criminal law and the failure of an institution to report this - neither of these things envoke the NCAA.  
The only way you can garner a link between the scandal and NCAA is to take the line of thought that PSU football benefitted from not reporting these actions.  While I can see this rationale, as stupid as it sounds, the NCAA has no laws about child molestation or how the breaking of criminal laws by AD staff should be handled.  We have the breaking of a criminal law and people who know about it.  But there's no law that says the people who knew had to do something, at least in the NCAA laws you posted.  So if they knew something and were NOT required to do anything about it, then you can do nothing about it, no matter what the motive.
I will agree to the extent that it's a jurisdictional gray area and I have stated that I think someone should have gotten involved.  I just don't think it should have been the NCAA because now the NCAA has enter a completely new area, enforcing criminal law within athletics.  There was no consistency in the NCAA previously and this will only cause a greater disparity.

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Maestro's picture

The coaches are part of amateur athletics and the coaches violated NCAA by laws.  It's not mutually exclusive to break a criminal law and an NCAA by law.  You can do both.  Penn State did both.  Just so happened that amateur athletic coaches were involved in breaking both criminal and NCAA laws.

vacuuming sucks

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

this is where we disagree.  no ncaa laws govern child abuse or reporting of such instances.  ncaa governs amateur athletics.  

Read my entire screen name....

Maestro's picture

Not specifically, but they govern the coaches who are expected to promote ethical conduct within their programs.

vacuuming sucks

Maestro's picture

Oh, and the institution completely failed to monitor the football program/coach.  Don't think that can ever be overstated in this case.

vacuuming sucks

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Again, failure to monitor according the NCAA has nothing to do with criminal law.  It is in place to ensure that th instution is enforcing NCAA bylaws, is made aware of violations and handles them properly.  
I'm guessing that a proper NCAA investigation would not have found any violations as we saw in with OSU, where there we actual bylaws cited.  The reason that the NCAA acted in this manner was to avoid actually citing which laws were broken, because there where none that were actually broken.  

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jenks's picture

Your point is arguable, but I think it is weak.  There are still bylaws requiring moral and ethical conduct and the totality of the circumstances clearly indicates they were not. The NCAA at least has jurisdiction regarding that matter and given the unprecedented nature of the "crimes" it is understandable that the penalties were also "unprecedented." As a result, I think the NCAA is squarely within their power here.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Is it moral to be in a position to hire a woman into your athletic department and then have an affair with her (Arkansas)?
Is it ethical be use your position to consume alcohol with underage employees of the athletic department and attempt to molest them (Wisconsin)? 
 
This is "unprecedented" territory because the NCAA has never enforced it before.  Lack of prior enforcement only reinforces that they should not be there now.  Someone should have stepped in, but not the NCAA, its not their jurisdiction.
 

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Maestro's picture

Just because you feel it is the first time that the NCAA has enforced 10.1 to this extent doesn't mean that they are out of bounds in doing so.  This case obviously crossed the line of NCAA tolerance for moral bankruptcy.

vacuuming sucks

Maestro's picture

10.1 was violated by Coach Tressel and certainly by Coach Paterno.

vacuuming sucks

Maestro's picture

and the Freeh report was as good as any NCAA investigation.  The school agreed with its findings and the NCAA acted upon the schools response.

vacuuming sucks

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

If Paterno violated 10.1, it's certinaly not stated in here, whereas Tressel's violation is.  At best, it's a gray area of 10.1
10.1 UNETHICAL CONDUCT
Unethical conduct by a prospective or enrolled student-athlete or a current or former institutional staff member (e.g., coach,
professor, tutor, teaching assistant, student manager, student trainer) may include, but is not limited to, the following:
(a) Refusal to furnish information relevant to an investigation of a possible violation of an NCAA regulation when requested to
do so by the NCAA or the individual's institution;
(b) Knowing involvement in arranging for fraudulent academic credit or false transcripts for a prospective or an enrolled studentathlete;
(c) Knowing involvement in offering or providing a prospective or an enrolled student-athlete an improper inducement or extra
benefit or improper financial aid;
(d) Knowingly furnishing the NCAA or the individual's institution false or misleading information concerning the individual's
involvement in or knowledge of matters relevant to a possible violation of an NCAA regulation;
(e) Receipt of benefits by an institutional staff member for facilitating or arranging a meeting between a student-athlete and an
agent, financial advisor or a representative of an agent or advisor (e.g., "runner
(f) Knowing involvement in providing a banned substance or impermissible supplement to student-athletes, or knowingly
providing medications to student-athletes contrary to medical licensure, commonly accepted standards of care in sports medicine
practice, or state and federal law;
(g) Failure to provide complete and accurate information to the NCAA or institution's admissions office regarding an
individual's academic record (e.g., schools attended, completion of coursework, grades and test scores); (Adopted: 4/27/06)
(h) Fraudulence or misconduct in connection with entrance or placement examinations; or
(i) Engaging in any athletics competition under an assumed name or with intent to otherwise deceive.

Read my entire screen name....

Crimson's picture

"may include, but is not limited to, the following:"
Oh, now I get it.  Wait . . . what?

Bucksfan's picture

Optimistic, you're failing to understand that the NCAA is not a completely independent entity.  It is a form of self-regulation empowered by all the universities who participate.  It's THEIR rules that the NCAA enforces.
They have domain in this case because universities allow them to have it.  They have domain in this case because Penn State allows them to have it.  They are allowed to use the Freeh Report as the basis for their ruling because a university commissioned it.
There is a fundamental error in your understanding of what the NCAA is, what it does, who empowers it, and why this is well-within their umbrella.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

The NCAA governs athletics.  Please inform me if this is incorrect.  I was just on their website and got the same feeling that its all about athletics and fair play.
 

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Crimson's picture

What if the head coach and AD lie to a grand jury?  They seem to be related to athletics.

jenks's picture

This is on page 4 of the manual  (http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D112.pdf):

2.4 THe PrinCiPLe oF sPorTsMAnsHiP AnD eTHiCAL ConDuCT [*]
For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of
higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these
athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and
responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum
of activities affecting the athletics program. It is the responsibility of each institution to: (Revised: 1/9/96)
(a) Establish policies for sportsmanship and ethical conduct in intercollegiate athletics consistent with the educational mission and goals of the institution; and (Adopted: 1/9/96)
(b) Educate, on a continuing basis, all constituencies about the policies in Constitution 2.4-(a). (Adopted: 1/9/96)

OSUBias's picture

Is the title of section 2.4 some sort of copy/paste error or did a 5 year old kid type that up for the NCAA? Good lord, it looks like one of those ransom letters that is cut from 50 different magazines.

Shitter's full

jenks's picture

Haha, I think OCR still has a way to go but I wouldn't put it past the NCAA to have a 5 year old write the rules.

Bucksfan's picture

Optimism, that is exactly right, the NCAA governs athletics and the fairness of play.  Engaging in immoral and unethical conduct to protect the winning reputation of the football program or its coach is the most eggregious violation of fair play in athletics that the sport has ever seen.  The emails that were described in the Freeh report very clearly highlight that this was the motive of those who were involved in the cover-up.  You seem to be in the very small minority of people that don't see the connection.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Bucksfan, you would be correct if I hadn't written this above

The only way you can garner a link between the scandal and NCAA is to take the line of thought that PSU football benefitted from not reporting these actions.  While I can see this rationale, as stupid as it sounds, the NCAA has no laws about child molestation or how the breaking of criminal laws by AD staff should be handled.  We have the breaking of a criminal law and people who know about it.  But there's no law that says the people who knew had to do something, at least in the NCAA laws you posted.  So if they knew something and were NOT required to do anything about it, then you can do nothing about it, no matter what the motive.

I see the connection.  And as I have stated over and again and others have ignored over and over again, someone needed to step in, but I don't think this was for the NCAA.  I think the NCAA essentially had to stretch themselves out and I would hope that you and others are paying attention to the articles that are being published that reference this extension of power and essentially break from the norm.  I would hope that most would admit that what happened at PSU was awful, but it went beyond the football program.  And while it did include the football program, this was a full blown university problem with people outisde of the athletic department.  That is the reason I believe that someone else should have been involved, maybe not independently involved, but perhaps a committee should have been formed consisting of figures/organization with academic and athletic protection interests because what happened and what went wrong went beyond the NCAA.
 

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Maestro's picture

The DOE has not weighed in yet.  They will most likely.

vacuuming sucks

Bucksfan's picture

That is the reason I believe that someone else should have been involved, maybe not independently involved, but perhaps a committee should have been formed consisting of figures/organization with academic and athletic protection interests because what happened and what went wrong went beyond the NCAA.

That's what the NCAA is!  The NCAA board is comprised of university presidents and former university presidents and athletic directors.  You can't get more academically/athletically oriented.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

You're missing my point again bucksfan.  The NCAA does not govern the non-athletic side of all of this.  And while we disagree on the handling of the PSU stuff, I think we will both agree that people not involved in athletics were a part of the cover up.  Consistent with my point all along that this was a university problem, including football but beyond.  I see this as important because academic administrators were also part of the problem.  This should invoke, as Maestro said, the DOE and perhaps some higher up academic or funding organizations, for instance the AAU.  Additionally, someone a while back posted something about what happened at PSU violating the Clery Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clery_Act).  The involvement of academic administrators and "higher-ups" should, in my opinion, register that PSU be examined beyond athletics.  The punishments made by the NCAA, and I really hope we can agree on this, affect the PSU athletic department, not academics.

Read my entire screen name....

Oakland Buckeye's picture

 Opto-buck - It is COLLEGE football, not the NFL, they are subject to the institution - & this is an institutional control issue.

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

dubjayfootball somewhere bobby bowden is smiling

Hardly home but always reppin

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

And what about UNC?  Academic fraud.  

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FROMTHE18's picture

1 year bowl ban hurts the program big time, 4 years, see you later Penn State... be interesting to see what O'Brien does, I imagine he stays

Wobble in our Shoes's picture

I thought I read that he had basically an "out" clause negotiated in his contract, saying in the case of serious penalties he could void it and leave. It would say a lot about the man if he sticks around to coach essentially a I-AA team with no BIG ToneG or National Championship hope.

Ethan's picture

The vacate is the most appropriate part: Joe Paterno is no longer the NCAA career wins leader. Might be the only time vacating wins has meant something. 
Didn't USC get docked 10 scholarships per year? 

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

The Modern Version of the Death Penalty RIP TO PENN STATE'S FOOTBALL PROGRAM FOR A FEW YEARS

Hardly home but always reppin

UrbzRenewal's picture

Holy. Mother. Of. God.

btalbert25's picture

Wow, they got drilled.   60,000,000, imagine what tuition is going to be at that place.  Especially, when the civil suits start coming in and donors start dropping off. 

FROMTHE18's picture

very good point about the civil suits, its going to be astronomical 

cplunk's picture

Doesn't make even the slightest dent in Penn State's coffers
http://live.psu.edu/story/54960

Doug Funnie's picture

I believe Emmert said $60 million is what the football program makes in one year.  So essentially the athletic department will be hurting without football making any money for a year.  We will see how bad that hurts b/c they had record donations last year

btalbert25's picture

A reporter asked the question though and he also said, it doesn't have to come strait from the Athletic Department though.  So, maybe 60mil can come from something else and not impact the athletic department too much. 

Doug Funnie's picture

I didn't catch that, interesting. thanks BTALBERT25

sloopy88's picture

I'm worried about the "something else."  Even a big endowment is usually already spoken for by the various obligations and future plans of a public university.  I'm betting some departments are going to be mightily pissed if/when they try to spread around the damage of this fee, especially since the academic/student affairs faculty have chafed with Paterno before and been shushed.  It's a pretty sobering example of how tightly athletics and academics are tied in higher ed, and how dependent the university is on the revenue athletics to bring in money and to refrain from crashing the entire school down a canyon in a blazing fireball.  As somebody working in higher ed, I hope this leads to some changes across the board for oversight in athletic programs... I love college athletics, and I love how they can be somewhat independent, but if my tiny salary were going away because the trustees needed to protect the football program's funds after they caused the problem, I would be furious.

Crimson's picture

Supposedly (saw it on these boards), the money cannot come from academics.  However, that leaves athletics and other money not directed for academics.  There are so many types of money at universities that we can't tell where it will come from, but one thing they can do is take it from other athletics; that is, football can distribute less than it usually does to other sports.  However, universities do have protections for the academic section from athletics and hospitals.  They are also assigned someone to watch over them, so hopefully will fund the penalty responsibly (and apparently it's coming out in installments, not all at once).

Oakland Buckeye's picture

They are doing 12 mil per year for 5 years///

FROMTHE18's picture

Miami will get torn to shreds as well...need to let the NCAA get done with Penn State and then focus on Miami, their day will come

jedkat's picture

I'm confused is it 10 schollies a year/4years or this as quoted by ESPN:
 
"Penn State must also reduce 10 initial and 20 total scholarships each year for a four-year period, the release said."
 
10 initial and the 20 per year for 4 years for a total of 90 Scollies gone in that time period?

“The teams that don’t respect their coaches and don’t trust their coaches are the teams that go .500"
~Zach Boren

OldColumbusTown's picture

Also...  Emmert mentioned the yearly scholarships available for the football program to hand out - 15 instead of 25 for the next four years. 
Currently there should be 85 on scholarship.  All 85 are available to transfer immediately, as in today.  Let's just say 50 guys transfer out of PSU.  That leaves 35 on scholarship for this year, with the ability to only add 15 more next year.  That's 50 scholarship players next year, less any who leave/graduate/etc.  The new scholarship limits (loss of 40) is hard enough, but the ability for the entire team to stand up and walk away today is staggering for the program's future.
This is WAY worse then the death penalty, because PSU basically has to give away everything they earn from football, and with a now de-valued product, the football program's earning potential has just taken a massive hit.

FROMTHE18's picture

10 schollies per year over the course of 4 years i believe... 25 to 15 for 4 years

FROMTHE18's picture

I believe htis was a plea deal from PSU... i wonder what the NCAA was going to consider had PSU not agreed

BuckeyeBoyer85's picture

This^

Wayne Woodrow Hayes

FROMTHE18's picture

WOW... they would have used the death penalty and OTHER sanctions.... if they did suspend it, and then add more on, wow PSU would have been dead

btalbert25's picture

I hope the 60,000,000 goes completely to this endowment and the NCAA doesn't take a tax or fee.  If so, that would be ridiculous.
 

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Endowment? I'm not watching live. Did they say the $60 million will go toward something other than the NCAA's war chest?

cplunk's picture

Yeah, ESPN says it is going to an endowment that will work to prevent child abuse

Doug Funnie's picture

Will be interesting to see what Penn State looks like in 2 years, when they are in the middle of the sanctions.  I wonder if any current players will transfer out.

FROMTHE18's picture

I believe a bunch will...anybody there right now wont go to a bowl game while at Penn State for the rest of their stay, that 60 million dollars will massively impact the football program as well, I dont think the upper classmen will as much as the younger guys...at USC i believe freshman and sophomores werent allowed to transfer without sitting out, Penn State freshman and sophomores are, so you figure they will be the first to seek transfer

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Do we know how the $60 million will be directed? NCAA general fund? Or is it earmarked to a specific program? Otherwise, it sounds like the corrupt NCAA clowncar posse just got a huge payday.

btalbert25's picture

My thoughts exactly Fido.  If every penny of that 60mil isn't put in the endowment Emmert mentioned then these penalties are a sham and all it is, is the NCAA kicking the program while their down.
 

buckeyemondo's picture

don't remember the specific verbage, but the $60M is to be dispersed amongst programs that champion against child abuse... someone else can clarify.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

That's much better than the NCAA putting $60 million in its general fund. Still, I'm with Albert - I also don't want to see the NCAA getting a 10 percent tax/fee ($6 million) on this, either. Unless the NCAA gets $0.00 from this fine, it's a shady fine.  

rdubs's picture

Has to go to preventing child abuse or victims of child abuse.

BuckeyeMark's picture

they got smoked.  absolutely blown up.  what recruit will go there for the next four or five years?  Indiana will get kids before the do.  it's going to be a long, long time before Penn State is a threat to anybody on the football field.
 

kperry316's picture

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!!!!!!!!! RIP Penn State Football. 

“The minute we stop expecting greatness from our football program, we become Wisconsin.”
Craig Krenzel

Northbrook's picture

Lets see the new PSU recruiting letter.

hail2victors9's picture

^^^ B-e-a-u tiful ^^^

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

BigMoosie's picture

Glad they didn't give the "Death Penalty." Suspension of the program, even for a year, would be so hard on the local economy.  Think of the businesses in the area, jobs that would probably be loss, etc.  Those people who had nothing to do with the scandal would be punished as well.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

These sanctions will have hugely negative long-term effects on socioeconomic variables as they are.

btalbert25's picture

I was thinking the same thing.  I read last night that the businesses in Happy Valley basically have 80 percent of their revenue come in during football season.  There would of been a lot of innocent victims there.  A lot of people losing jobs and livelihoods because of it. 

onetwentyeight's picture

I don't think so. I think this is exactly why they didn't just go all out Death Penalty. PSU still has every right to hold every home football game for the next however many years. The fact that they will SUCK isn't anyone's concern. Their supposedly uber-loyal fans can still fill up beaver, still buy stuff from the local businesses on game days, etc. Postseason games weren't going to be held in State college anyways. If the local businesses suffer it won't be because the NCAA stomped them down, it's going to be because their own fans won't bother to show up and support their team when it doesn't win. Potentially, this NCAA ruling could have 0 consequences for these local business, if every single PSU fan still loyally shows up to cheer their rag-tag band of amateur walk-ons every saturday. 

BuckeyeMark's picture

$60 mill to be used in various funds to help victims of abuse.  Emmert was very very clear about that.

jkrk's picture

Sanctions still rolling in. School chant must be changed to "We were!"

buckeyeEddie27's picture

ncaa really moved on this.  kudos to them for that.   psu...you are f'd. 

I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.

FROMTHE18's picture

Think about how much losing 3 schollies hurts us, losing 10.... wow

vidstudent's picture

And we stay on news break in the CBus area because of the threat of an actual bomb at the Franklin County Courthouse...not that this result isn't figuratively a small nuke.

Nicholas Eckert

vidstudent

Arizona_Buckeye's picture

Mr. Obvious - BSD is on fire with delusional anger!  Reality will not shed its light on PSU for a long long time!

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

FROMTHE18's picture

Penn State media and other supports still complaining... the school signed an agreement with the NCAA to accept these sanctions, they need to accept it and move on

Wobble in our Shoes's picture


Gif from Black Shoe Diaries. That place is going to be uninhabitable for the rest of the week.
I understand their feelings (not their opinions). It took me a good few months to get over our sanctions, I can't even imagine this scenario.

FROMTHE18's picture

I have a lot of respect for Mark Emmert now...not just the NCAA's sanctions, but the way he is addressing this issue, very impressed

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Are you impressed with this guy, too:

DCBuckeyeFille's picture

Only Wisconsin, Purdue and Indiana are eligible to win the Leaders division this year.  Wow.

DCBuckeyeFille's picture

Whoops, Illinois too!  I always seem to forget them.  Anywho, Congrats to Wisky for their Leaders Divsion win.

hail2victors9's picture

I wouldn't be surprised to see some re-alignment or even Penn State replaced.  If you stick ND in place of PSU, the B1G would simply carry on about its business.  Of course it's doubtful ND will ever join, but it would work.  Let PSU be independent, for all I care.
 

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

111 wins for joe pa vacated

Hardly home but always reppin

jedkat's picture

This now makes PSU winless* since 1998.

“The teams that don’t respect their coaches and don’t trust their coaches are the teams that go .500"
~Zach Boren

simpson203's picture

One of the reporters actually asked "What should other universities learn from this?"  Really moron... how about "don't let one of your coaches violate little kids and cover it up."

Alex's picture

Matt McGloin is still winless vs OSU

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Big Ten needs to kick PSU out of the conference AND then stealthily work toward the replacement of the corrupt NCAA clowncar posse with a more sensible model for intercollegiate athletics governance. 
Now, because of the sanctions, the Big Ten cannot work to undermine the NCAA if PSU remains a conference member - it would look like the Big Ten is defending the indefensible. Part of the reason why the NCAA jumped-the-line here was to put their opponents off-balance.
Well, take away that leverage by booting PSU from the conference.   
And, yes, I know the NCAA has been chattering about how its in the process of major reforms, blah, blah. Maybe they'll use part of their cut of the $60 million fine to expedite that reform. Yeah, right, bwaaahaha!   

FROMTHE18's picture

I think Penn State will be the most hated team in college football for a very, very long time

flipbuckeye's picture

I don't know about that. They will probably be forgotten. PSU will be irrelevant for years to come.

hodge's picture

After this 4 year debacle, they'll be fine.  They'll learn from Ohio State and Michigan, money talks.  Penn State can pay lots of money for a quality guy, and I'm sure that there's a few men out there who would take on that kind of challenge for the right dough...

onetwentyeight's picture

Really? Do you know any SMU fans? 

cplunk's picture

Exactly. I don't think younger people today realize that SMU in the early 80's was on par with teams like Penn State. They just now made their first bowl after he death penalty. It took that long to come "back" and by "back" I mean make a minor bowl and still be irrelevant nationally.
PSU is done for 20+ years. This season will actually be their best year since many of the Juniors and Seniors will probably stay.

NC_Buckeye's picture

I'm calling shenanigans on this statement:

I don't think younger people today realize that SMU in the early 80's was on par with teams like Penn State.

SMU is a small private college that wasn't even the third best program in their state prior to the death penalty. They were buying their success and got caught. They are the equivalent of Miami. (The fact that Miami keeps doing the same thing over and over is proof that the Hurricanes SHOULD have received the death penalty, BTW.)
Penn State is THE college football program of PA and the northeast and probably the upper mid-Atlantic as well. Top tier recruits will keep coming to State College. just not as many for 4 years. I see this situation being very similar to USC and Alabama after they got hammered.

cplunk's picture

Miami to SMU is actually a good comparison. 

CincyOSU's picture

SMU was only successful because of rampant cheating and blatant payments made to lure players to campus. They really had very little history until the mid 70's and their run was only about 10 years. PSU is very different in the resources currently available as well as the tradition they carry(though 14 years have been erased). PSU will be down significantly for 4-6 years but after that you will once again see them begin to improve. It's a different era than what SMU was in and PSU has the money to get past this.

hodge's picture

^ Thank you, Cincy and NC.  SMU's sanctions were FAR more draconian than this, especially given the size and scope of their school and its athletic department.  SMU was the second-smallest institution in the SWC (aside from Rice), and has nowhere near the resources that Penn State has (a massive endowment, and the largest and most active alumni network in the world).  For the sake of comparison, here's SMU's sanctions, per Wikipedia:

  1. The 1987 season was canceled; only conditioning drills were permitted during the 1987 calendar year.
  2. All home games in 1988 were canceled. SMU was allowed to play their seven regularly scheduled away games so that other institutions would not be financially affected.
  3. The team's existing probation was extended until 1990. Its existing ban from bowl games and live television was extended to 1989.
  4. SMU lost 55 new scholarship positions over 4 years.
  5. SMU was required to ensure that Owen and eight other boosters previously banned from contact with the program were in fact banned, or else face further punishment.
  6. The team was allowed to hire only five full-time assistant coaches, instead of the typical nine.
  7. No off-campus recruiting was permitted until August 1988, and no paid visits could be made to campus by potential recruits until the start of the 1988-89 school year.

Due to their docked schollies and lost season, SMU would cancel their 1988 season.  The lack of television exposure through 1990 conspired to make the world forget about SMU.  Their small, Dallas-based fanbase wound up taking solace in the Cowboys and moved on.  Penn State has a massive, dedicated fanbase, television exposure, a vast alumni network, dedicated program boosters, and money to spend.  I'm sorry, but the thought that they're going to tumble into obscurity after these sanctions wear off is delusional; they'll be down for probably 5-7 years, they'll be back to their current level (a second-tier B1G team) after that.

Squirrel Master's picture

I thought it was fitting that "Pony Excess" was on last night (probably running 24/7 now on ESPNU). I watched it for the 10th time or so last night. Love watching that show. It is absolutely amazing everything that went down. and opposed to this situation which was all suppress for the past 14 years, SMU was blatant and everyone was aware what was going on the whole time. It was a wild story. This is going to be different. Much more of a sad scenario! SMU was just funny. Just like I laugh at the stupidity of Miami. PSU, not funny by any means!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

buckeyedude's picture

With all due respect, if you think PSU is just going to pick up where they left off in 4-6 years, then I think you might be crazy. If they don't get booted from the B1G, they are going to be battling Indiana for the worst team. Look at all of the scholarships they are going to lose! There is no way they will even be respectable in 4-6 years! I think it's going to take at least a decade before PSU starts to put this story behind them(sorry about that) and start to lure top recruits. They'll likely be in the Big Least by then or just Independent. Maybe ND and them can form their own two team league.

 

 

harp35's picture

Joe Pa now 12 all time in wins, good knowing u psu football.

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

409wins  to 298 wins

Hardly home but always reppin

RBuck's picture

Glad they didn't get a TV ban as that would hurt the other B1G schools; and also my pleasure of watching them get their ass rolled over for the next ten or so years.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

FROMTHE18's picture

scholarship penalty is still confusing...10 initial, 20 total? need more clarification on this

Wobble in our Shoes's picture

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/20120723/21207232
This says its 10 initially lost, then until 2014-2015 they are capped at 65 total scholarships per year. Basically it seems that they lose 20 total schollies a year.

vidstudent's picture

You normally get 25 new scholarship athletes per year.  They now only get 15 new scholarship athletes per year.
There is also a total number of scholarship athletes each year; normally, this is 85 in Division 1-A.  They now are at 65, which is around the number for Division I-AA.
Otherwise noteworthy is that, since they have 85 scholarship athletes at the moment, that some people will have to give up their scholarship status, but will *still have to have their tuition paid by Penn State* if they choose to stay.  If, instead, they want to go somewhere to play, they're more than welcome to transfer freely.
I see a good number of people taking option 2, with some players still stuck with option 2 because 20 people is quite a lot.

Nicholas Eckert

vidstudent

Crimson's picture

Look at the timing in the link one above (currently).
15 incoming limit for 2013-2014 until 2016-2017
65 cap is 2014-2015 until 2017-2018
ESPN and Scout are listing Penn St. at 12 comittments for 2013-2014, so no one gets pushed out, unless they are over 65 for the 2014-2015 academic year.  If they can only bring in 15 instead of 25 for the next two years, having over 65 should not happen by then.

Wobble in our Shoes's picture

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/20120723/21207234
NCAA considering waiving scholarship limits for institutions taking on PSU players.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

What players might the Buckeyes want to "rent" from the PSU roster? If the Buckeyes didn't have a bowl ban, themselves, maybe senior LB Gerald Hodges. How good are LBs Glenn Carson, Michael Mauti, or Ben Kline? OL depth?

ArTbkward's picture

So is Fickell's record now 6-6?  6-5 if Miami gets their win vacated too?

We should strive to keep thy name, of fair repute and spotless fame...
(Also, I'm not a dude)

flipbuckeye's picture

Vacating wins is mostly pointless to me. The games still happened. You can wipe them off the books but you can't take them away from any of the players or fans.
We still won the Sugar Bowl against Arkansas. We still lost those games against PSU.

simpson203's picture

Good point in most cases.  But here, this hurts JoePa's legacy and actually serves a purpose.

flipbuckeye's picture

Definitely agree that it hurts JoePa's legacy. I was just addressing those who are trying to somehow undo our losses.

JKH1232's picture

I think it only really matters in a case like this- now Joe Pa isn't the winningest DI coach, Eddie Robinson is.  In other words, this might be a case where it matters, but, usually, I agree with you.

cplunk's picture

Doesn't work that way. PSU vacates the win statistically, but their opponent does not vacate the loss statistically. 
In our case, that means we never beat Arkansas in the bowl game but Arkansas did lose to us in the bowl game.
Not saying it is logical, but that's how the stats work.

FROMTHE18's picture

How good is Wisconsin going to be over the next few years? Their recruiting is so terrible that they gobble up transfers

Maestro's picture

If I am a kid who is currently committed to PSU there is no way I go there.  Bowl games are a special and unique part of the experience of being a college football player.  Might as well go to an NAIA school.

vacuuming sucks

FROMTHE18's picture

The investigations are not over, if more comes to light...PSU may get hammered even more...I still believe that there is plenty left uncovered, will be really interesting to see if anything else happens

mclovin's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91FYF_iWyqk
Wish the NCAA could have made them go back one more year in vacated victories.  15 years and I haven't gotten over this.

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

This is Crazy but i feel it's Deserved

Hardly home but always reppin

Olemissbuckeye's picture

Oh God, there's so much blood...
The NCAA reacts to a massive abuse of power with...a massive abuse of power?

Seabass1974's picture

How are they abusing their power?
 

The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender. - Woody Hayes

Olemissbuckeye's picture

Which bylaw was violated?
I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit here but whether the NCAA could and /or should have stepped in is open to reasonable debate, as is the punishment.
I am in the camp that thinks that the decision to harbor Sandusky DID confer a benefit on the program, even if the result is somewhat diffused and therefore immeasurable. It certainly isn't akin to the direct "on the field" benefit of playing ineligible players in a Sugar Bowl.

Seabass1974's picture

They violated core values of being a member institution of the NCAA.
 
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/About+the+NCAA/Who+We+Ar...
 
A mentality of football above all else pretty much violates most of the core values listed.

The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender. - Woody Hayes

Olemissbuckeye's picture

If that is really the sole basis for the imposition of massive penalties by the NCAA then God help us all.
 

Seabass1974's picture

Do we really need a bylaw that says "Don't rape little kids and don't cover for child rapists."? If so then you are damn right with "God help us all".

The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender. - Woody Hayes

Olemissbuckeye's picture

"We" do not but that is what our criminal justice system is for. I would submit that the NCAA's authority to thrust itself into criminal matters is more limited. They are stretching a bit under bylaw 10.1.
Again, I'm playing devil's advocate but the power being wielded is "unprecedented" in the current context.
We WERE...

buckeyedude's picture

That's a good point Seabass, but I think maybe it's time to have an amendment or addition to the bylaws regarding child rape.  

 

 

schooey's picture

Yep, but you knew it was coming, its the NCAA after all. 

Olemissbuckeye's picture

^ This
Everyone had to know the NCAA couldn't resist. I'm surprised people are surprised.

LouBuck35's picture

Continued delusion from BSD..."Honestly, I feel like the NCAA saw that PSU was still able to get a great recruiting class and thought “oh shit, we have to do something to make sure they can’t bounce back. That would mean they never got it” and so they decided to take care of that."
Crazy talk.

I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

sharkvsghost's picture

BSD commentariat = cacophony of delusion

swing hard in case you hit it.

Wobble in our Shoes's picture

BoneG Conference press conference at 10 am

builderofcoalitions's picture

I agree, but who can we get to replace them? I suspect the B1G doesn't want to lose their championship game and you 12 schools for that.

Because we couldn't go for three.

flipbuckeye's picture

Read this as 'bone jee' and tried to figure out which player, coach, etc had such an odd nickname.

jenks's picture

I guess the biggest question now is, who from PSU can we convince/do we want to come to OSU?

builderofcoalitions's picture

FWIW, a PSU grad on a FB thread had this to say in response to the sanctions...

This life member of the PSU alumni association thinks the punishment is just. The football program from 1998 onwards was partially built on the bodies of raped children. It was a horrible and violent fraud.

Because we couldn't go for three.

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

Its Crazy to think that people thought that the NCAA would sit on there hands and do nothing.

Hardly home but always reppin

pannich's picture

Just digesting all of this. 
Super surprised they vacated the wins. I get why they did it, but I just didn't think they'd go there. 
The Big 10 is in a tough spot IMO.  I don't see how they can keep PSU in the fold since they are likley not going to be competitive for years. 
Still trying to wrap my head around everything else. 

Buckeye living in SEC land. 

Wobble in our Shoes's picture

B1G Ten press conference starting within the next few minutes, stay tuned

btalbert25's picture

The only way they boot Penn State is if they have someone big ready to step into Penn State's spot.  No way Delaney kicks them out without having a Notre Dame or Oklahoma(I know they aren't AAU) to step in their place.

BlazeTheBuckeye's picture

due to the sanctions joe pa last win was against Winconsin in 97, and the QB of that team Mike McQueary

Hardly home but always reppin

builderofcoalitions's picture

Wow.

Because we couldn't go for three.

buckeye76BHop's picture

Saw that too...epitome of irony huh.

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987 

FROMTHE18's picture

great point by Jesse Palmer... cant recruit troublemakers, cant recruit busts, and have to hit on every recruit or its a massive set back

btalbert25's picture

It's definitely a bizarre day if someone says Jesse Palmer actually said something that makes sense.

20sider's picture

Penalties are all warranted.
Anyone claiming the NCAA has no authority here is missing the point and intention of the NCAA. Ideally they exist to enforce and keep a higher standard in college athletics. The issue at PSU is an athletic cultural issue. Similar to those of any elite program in the country. There are those who feel that their football program is above all.
The fact that a PSU coach and certain administrators felt that they should choose the wellfare of the Penn State football program over that of children is the issue at hand.
The criminal courts took care of handing out justice to Jerry Sandusky. Curley and others will have their day in court also.
The mindset that nothing should happen to the university itself is wrong in my opinion.
This is not about an advantage on the field of play. This is about morality.
Higher education should demand more of itself.
Cheating and impermissable benefits are one thing. A culture that fosters an atmosphere that would allow for concealing and enabling a pedophile is completely something else.
 
Just my ramblings and thoughts.

GO BUCKS!

schooey's picture

 A "culture" requires more than a handful of people. It is not as though the entire school or even football program knew about it. The players did not buy into a culture that much more different than most big programs. 

20sider's picture

Valid point. As I said these are my rambling thoughts... I agree those folks knew nothing of the crimes or of the fact that people were concealing the truth.
I would argue that the "culture" is what allowed those in charge to assume the mindset that the program needed protecting.
I do honestly feel for those PSU alumni. This is a horrible thing that has happened.
As a proud Buckeye alumn, I felt a certain amount of embarrasment and shame towards our violations last year. I cannot begin to imagine how the students, faculty, and alumni are feeling now. I know what it is to love your alma mater and realize it's impact upon your life, then and now.

GO BUCKS!

Run_Fido_Run's picture

. . .  missing the point and intention of the NCAA. Ideally they exist to enforce and keep a higher standard in college athletics. The issue at PSU is an athletic cultural issue. Similar to those of any elite program in the country. There are those who feel that their football program is above all.

Okay, then, so how well has the NCAA performed over the last several decades in pursuing its mission of raising standards in college athletics? Auburn occasionally managed to outbid its more prestigious neighbor, Bama for LBs in the 1970s; just recently, John Copeland "joked" that Auburn managing to outbid Bama for the #1 LB in the 2013 class.
And so this begs the question: Who's mission/role is it to promote a higher standard in college athletics governance? Or is the NCAA beyond accountability?    

20sider's picture

I do not think the NCAA has performed well in the past. My point was idealogocal one. Practice of the ideal is much harder. Does the NCAA need some sort of governance? Probably.
There are a lot of things wrong with ametuer sports in America. It also has mostly to do with money. Actually, probably has everything to do with money.
Not an NCAA homer or anything, but someone needed to do something. If you read between lines I think you can infer that this is not Emmert doling out the punishment. He is the tool being used by the NCAA member university presidents, and by defacto, those universities.

GO BUCKS!

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Fair enough, but one of my qualms about the NCAA jumping-the-line on this is very much ideological/philosophical.
We tend to approach these matters from an individualistic, deontollogical perspective = bad people need to be punished, regardless of the consequences. 
When it comes to "public policy" (and these sanctions have massive socioeconomic implications), I'm more of a consequentialist (although not so much when it comes to individual morality). Okay, then, will these sanctions cause more harm than good? I'm not sure, but I haven't heard much discussion on this point. 
Moreover, the NCAA has a terrible track record in terms of pursuing its own broader mission. Are they accountable to any kind of performance standards? What is the net value in further empowering this corrupt organization? And unlike when we refer to PSU/Paterno as "corrupt," I don't mean that the NCAA is staffed with bad people. I mean that their mission is corrupted by "structural factors" which are just as worrisome, if not much more so, than the PSU "culture" (in fact, they're probably intertwined). 
These sanctions do nothing to correct those deeper structural problems and, if anything, only bolster the NCAA to thrive in spite of them.     

20sider's picture

Sure, I think I agree with your assessment of the NCAA. I have not formed a position on how I feel about (or think of) the governing body to date. There are many flaws.
All of Penn State is going to be hurt from this. Community. Students. Faculty. Local businesses, etc.
As flawed as the NCAA is, I think there is something to be gained from their actions today. From what I have read from the current PSU AD... I think that PSU is taking the right track in efforts to accept responsibilty and move forward in a positve direction.

GO BUCKS!

Squirrel Master's picture

Not much more I can say after you guys but I will say this, it was a very harsh penalty. I definitely think Death Penalty can be described here. The 60 million dollar fine and lose of wins is the best part of the penalty. postseason ban and lose of scholarships is football related. The fine and records is what will hurt the most.
but as harsh as that was, still in no way makes up for what happened. It is just ugly all around and there is nothing good out of this. Even OSU will feel the pain of this as well as the rest of the B1G. Nobody should be happy from this! Nobody! No one wins!
 

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

20sider's picture

Agreed. No one wins. Nothing to be happy about.
Let's hope that something good can come of it one day.

GO BUCKS!

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Exactly! It's not technically the "death penalty." Rather, PSU has been cryogenically frozen.
Of course, when we go to unfreeze and "wake up" PSU about eight years from now, if that Nittany Lionsicle doesn't jump right up and roar, with all vital signs fully intact, it won't be because the NCAA killed it - it will be because of cryogenic malfunction. 

Squirrel Master's picture

HUH? LOL Okay Demolition Man! LOL
I do like the Lionsicle though!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

BuckeyeSki's picture

Mmmmmmmmmmmm BSD outrage tastes delicious

Banned from BlackShoeDiaries since 2008. Crime: Slander/Defamation of Character Judgement: Guilty

schooey's picture

Talking heads saying that the $60,000,000 will come out of academics, because the football team won't make that money. 

Bucksfan's picture

No.  That's a provision in the penalty that the money absolutely CANNOT come out of any academic program funds.

cplunk's picture

BTW, this does mean our shared conference titles in 2005 and 2008 are now outright titles.
Not that that is important here, but interesting to note.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

No, for '05 and '08, the Buckeyes will retain only shared Big Ten titles, while the party with whom they're sharing won't be sharing with us because they won't have anything with which to share.

Bucksfan's picture

I think vacated wins are stupid.  The losses still count, meaning the games are still on record in some way, shape or form.  It hurts Joe Paterno's win record.  BFD.  He's dead.  He's the only one for whom that matters, and he claimed year after year that he doesn't care about that record, which may or may not have been a fat lie.
Overall, though, these are SEVERE penalties, and appropriate ones.  This might be worse than a 1-year suspension of football, through which a program as big and resourceful as Penn State could probably withstand.  It is very possible that this cripples their program.

CincyOSU's picture

Typically I, and most others, would agree. But in this case removing joey's wins takes yet another achievement away for PSU...they can no longer claim to have the winningest coach in CFB and his legacy suffers even more. This was a VERY strong symbolic statement.

cplunk's picture

^ Agree with Cincy. Normally they mean very little but in this case they mean a ton.

CincyOSU's picture

Dude, thats twice in two days. Are we awake? :)

cplunk's picture

My girlfriend is getting jealous...

Bucksfan's picture

Look, it's all a matter of your point of view.  If you choose to not recognize those wins.  Fine, you can do that.  If you choose to say, "hey, I watched those games, they really happened, you can't erase history," then you can say that, too.  College football, by and large, is a big exhibition anyway that crowns its champions in a convoluted way that no one respects.  Erasing their wins is dumb because they didn't really mean anything in the first place.  That's my opinion anyway.
I still recognize that Michigan beat Cincinnati in the 1992 Final Four.  I recognize USC's national title in 2004.  I recognize our Sugar Bowl win over Arkansas.  And I'm going to recognize Penn State beating Ohio State in 2001, 2005, 2008 and last year.  All of those games were tough pills to swallow at the time, and I refuse to acknowledge that they didn't count for Penn State.  The NCAA might not recognize the winner as having won, but they still recognize that the game happened, who participated in it, and who lost it.

CincyOSU's picture

I completely get what you are saying(I watched us beat Arkansas for example), but like I said this much different. This is more of a symobolic penalty and is aimed at paterno's legacy and those at PSU who can no longer say he is the winningest CFB coach. Taking away a career record like that is a lot different in it's meaning than taking away our win vs Arkansas.

pannich's picture

I feel like the B1G as a conference may need to address this futher.  

Buckeye living in SEC land. 

rickyu22's picture

I think they should have banned them post season for as long as they hid the scandal. 10+ years. 

BuckeyeBoyer85's picture

How will the victims feel when Beaver Stadium cheers for a touchdown? When the fans chant "We Are..."? When the money rolls in from Alumni in support of the team? I could care less about the football team. Do more to help the victims, not just sums of money.

Wayne Woodrow Hayes

buckeye76BHop's picture

The 60 mill will go to pay a victims advocacy/awareness program...the victims will win their $$$ in civil law suits.  Read up on how many class action law suits are being filed against PSU (including one by Mike McQueary) and you'll see what I'm talking about.

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987 

BuckeyeBoyer85's picture

I know about the money, but how does that make a child abuse victim feel better? I would be upset that the fans get to continue to enjoy drunken Saturdays watching the Lions play. I would be haunted by anything involving the PSU football team, and no amount of money makes it better. Only thing that would give me solace is not seeing those ugly white helmets, and a huge memorial to child abuse victims where the JoePa statue was. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the victims being happy with loads of cash while the beat goes on for Staters on Saturdays.

Wayne Woodrow Hayes

buckeye76BHop's picture

I'm not going to get on here an write on of my book long blogs...there's no need for one on this.  It was necessary, warranted and not too harsh.  NCAA had to set a precedent so something like this won't happen again....and I tend to think it won't.  IDC about it punishing the ones who had nothing to do with it (look at OSU and USC...someone has to get the punishment because NCAA takes SO much time to bring down their verdicts).  That's what needs changed IMHO.

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987 

Jeremy91's picture

PSU - "Why didn't you just kill me?"

NCAA - "Your punishment must be more sever!" (In Bane Voice)
 

"Do not pray for an easy life. Rather, pray for the the strength to endure a difficult one" - Bruce Lee