Jon Waters Featured in TBDBITL 2014 Trailer

By 11W Staff on August 14, 2014 at 11:05a
101 Comments

Man, this video really gets my juices flowing...

But... there's something... hmm... awkward about this production....

Comments

cdubs's picture

How officially affiliated is the site that made it (OhioStateVideos.com)? The WHOIS info looks like it's just registered to some guy.

(Serious, genuinely curious)

+1 HS
OSUMBGunner's picture

This was not released by the OSUMB or the TBDBITL Alumni Club.   It was released by a small family business that films and documents performances and events for the members of the OSUMB. Almost all the footage was from last season (2013-2014), a season which Waters was director of the OSUMB. 

I dont believe this was a statement piece or a targeted message of support. This is a trailer for the upcoming season, using highlights from the previous season, made for the current band, not BY the current band.

ibuck's picture

Did the university ok this video? And why doesn't it feature the band's own music?

Our honor defend, we will fight to the end !

If you can't win your conference, just quietly accept your non-playoff bowl game.

jpbuckeye's picture

I get a "Page Unavailable" note. Is it me or has the page been (re)moved?

Woody16111's picture

The Alumni Band and current Band needs to figure out how to strike back at the Empire and Darth Drake. He isn't budging, despite putting all his eggs in a bogus report.

Alumni Band should not perform at all, if they are serious and this support for Waters is wide spread. The current Band should not do halftime shows either, if this is a real movement.

Something has to be done, to up the anti as the Brass have dug in and doubled down. 

This is about saving face, and finding a scapegoat. Waters' last performance review was all positive, from news reports so that adds more fuel to the fire. Ohio State committed a wrong with this, it's clear to everyone but the nervous nelly's driven by the gold standards of the political correct crowd.

I'd like to see the band come out, first home game, with white sweatbands that say "Waters" on them, ala what the football players did for Earle Bruce to show support in 1987.

+9 HS
BuckGnome's picture

Regardless of right or wrong, the deed is done.  Waters will not get his job back.

+7 HS
bucksfan92's picture

Very well put.  This is far from over, and a walkout or a quiet halftime, would be an awesome show of support. Drake needs to admit his mistake, eat some crow and do the right thing. This is Waters's band no ifs ands or buts about it.

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

16 more days and nobody will be talking about this anymore...

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
Mhennin2's picture

Completely disagree, the band alumni is the largest alumni group at the university. What is being threatened by the waters outing is much greater than many think and could ultimately ruin tbdbitl. The reason there is such a struggle is cause the alumni realize this and won't back down. There are people who refuse to donate because of this and won't until drake is dismissed. How many times did the band get brought up last year during the season? Quite a bit ask over the country. This is going to end with Jon getting his job, or getting a fat settlement check, and I'm going for the former

+6 HS
osu07asu10's picture

This is going to end with Jon getting his job, or getting a fat settlement check, and I'm going for the former

Thanks for the laugh. Look, Ohio State doesn't do things brashly. They have a whole army of attorneys who made sure they had the legal recourse to fire Waters.

Waters may get a settlement to avoid a public battle but he absolutely 100% will not be getting his job back. 

As for the 4,000 alumni band members...there are 500,000 living alumni of the University, which means this is a hot button issue for approximately 0.8% of the University alumni.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

-2 HS
Jack Fu's picture

This assumes it isn't an issue for non-band alumni. As a non-band alum, I assure you this is wrong.

+15 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Not assuming that at all, just pointing out that the "largest" alumni group is but a fraction of total alumni for the University.

I guess my point in saying this won't  be a topic in 16 days is that 11w covers tOSU athletics and when the season starts our focus will shift to the football team and I believe the Waters discourse will die down.

I just know from dealing personally with the University, from an employment standpoint, Waters is done. He can kick, scream, sue, fight, garner alumni support...he will never work for Ohio State again.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
Jack Fu's picture

You said it's a hot-button issue for 0.8% of the fanbase. That's wrong.

+3 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Ok, fair enough. It is probably an issue for about 5% of the total alumni base.

The bottom line is Waters did enough to justify his firing and for that reason he won't get his job back. 

Think about it, do you think the alumni is more upset of Waters' firing, or Tressel's firing? I'm pretty sure that there was much more uproar over Tressel and the football scandal and that got him no where.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

-3 HS
MrMeanMan's picture

Unfortunately, I agree that Jon won't get his job back. President Drake's remarks can be read as essentially saying "even if it turns out that the Glaros Report is as accurate as A Million Little Pieces and was written by a crazy witch doctor that has had it out for the Waters family for 300 years, there's no way he's getting his job back because reasons."

However, the TBDBITL alumni association is the most passionate and most active alumni association at Ohio State. They are not going away, and they very very good at making enough noise to ensure that they are heard.

+3 HS
osu07asu10's picture

They may be heard, but they won't make a difference.

The university had justifiable (not necessarily fair) reasons for letting Waters go. It's a moot point, he won't be back.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
MrMeanMan's picture

Even if he's not going to get his job back, there's plenty left to fight for from an alumni band standpoint. They have legitimate and serious issues that really should be brought to the attention of public. Even if you don't think they can win, it doesn't mean you have to poo-poo on everything that comes up about it. Let the rabble-rousers rouse the rabbles.

+4 HS
Furious George 27's picture

Jim O'brien won his settlement against OSU when he was fired for paying recruits a clear violation.... So don't just assume that because you have more lawyers,$$$,  etc that OSU will just win. I agree he most like will not get his job back, but the report used against him seems to have so many holes and discrepencies in it that he could fight it and win.

The Alumni Band is probably the most visible of the 500,000 alumni base so its irrelevant to say they make up >1% because so far they have pretty much led the charge to get Waters in the National spot light to defend himself.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

+7 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Jim O'brien won his settlement against OSU when he was fired for paying recruits a clear violation.... 

That is incorrect Furious George.

For starters the two are completely different type of employees and contracts. O'Brien was fired on the grounds that he committed an NCAA violation, a stipulation of his contract.

He sued on those grounds and won a decision that said his violation in regards to the NCAA were not egregious enough to warrant him being fired. He sued for lost salary compensation plus interest.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
Furious George 27's picture

Actually they are not different... Both were fired for percieved violations and both can sue on being fired fired for erroneous findings. O'Brien litterly loaned money to go to a recruit and used the excuse that he did it out of the kindness of his heart which is why he won his appeal. The NCAA said it wasn't a violation because of his bs excuse in that the he knew the loaned player lost his amatuer status and could not sign. O'Brien was dirty, he just got away with it because OSU busted him for the wrong recruit. Do you really think that Waters cannot go through his reviews that praise him and not say that he was not fired with just cause? I think you are trying too hard to dismiss a very vocal alumni base rather than admit you are wrong. All I said is that Waters most certainly has a case he can win and has already gone National with it more so than what you thought was a clear case of cheating in which backfired in the O'Brien case.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

jwh7's picture

I disagree. From reliable sources, with Waters out the School of Music is in which means a probable change from the high step type style (8 steps every 5 yards) to a low step corps style used by most high school bands. So what you ask! It means that Script Ohio and the Band Entrance will not be the same and you will not be happy. The world' s largest all brass band will no doubt include clarinets, flutes and the like all for the sake of diversity and control by the SOM. This story has legs as the university's largest alumni group is the band and they have been violated by a horse spit report that does not report the facts nor the truth. Waters is a hero and whether he is retained or not, he is going to get a lot of money...title IX was not violated by the director and the traditions of the band but by the university itself due to arrogance and incompetence. The truth will set you free. Go Bucks.

buckeyboy

+7 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Waters is a hero

Wow

title IX was not violated by the director and the traditions of the band 

You may wish to brush up on Title IX

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+4 HS
andretolstoy's picture

If Title IX was violated, it was violated by Drake (among others) as much as Waters by virtue of inheritance. Except, it turns out Waters ACTUALLY tried to change the culture.

Which is why Waters got fired. ...

GoBucks10's picture

High school for me was low step but we still stuck with 8 steps per 5 yards.  I was not a member of TBDBITL, however I would be really disappointed if high step style was taken away and would probably raise hell if we went away from All Brass.

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

+2 HS
AndyVance's picture

With Waters out the School of Music is in which means a probable change from the high step type style (8 steps every 5 yards) to a low step corps style used by most high school bands. So what you ask! It means that Script Ohio and the Band Entrance will not be the same and you will not be happy. The world' s largest all brass band will no doubt include clarinets, flutes and the like all for the sake of diversity and control by the SOM.

This is perhaps the single most important, least-reported and least understood aspect of this entire debacle. My biggest fear from this absolute disaster of a firing is that the two or three key traits that absolutely define this band will be gutted by the academic muckety-mucks who will now - after decades of hoping and wishing they could keep TBDBITL under their thumb - finally have the control they've long desire. I hope and pray I'm wrong, but my Spidey-sense is going off like the bells of Notre Dame.

+11 HS
andretolstoy's picture

What are the chances that Waters is keen on this theory? If so why is this not being mentioned via his campaign?

MrMeanMan's picture

He's trying to win the right way, not mud slinging. He also has a professional working relationship with the people at the School of Music that he wants to keep up should he win. He was also a paid SoM employee.

+2 HS
DRAKE008's picture

Part of why I am willing to pay to go to a game (as opposed to sitting in the comfort of my home with a giant tv and beer) is the band.  Maybe it's just me, but when I hear the drums start and the band come down the ramp I feel the electric in the stadium.  I think the band is an important part of the game day atmosphere and if it were to change from high stepping and all brass, I think the number of games I attend would be greatly reduced.

+10 HS
CGroverL's picture

You aren't alone. I asked the people here at 11W to help me out with "where to sit" and "places to go", etc. as I have never been to Ohio Stadium to see our beloved Buckeyes and almost every person's comment was alike in one way. That one way had something to do with the band. Everyone mentioned certain places to sit to see the band's performance. There is no doubt that the #1 suggestion that people made to me had something to do with the band whether it was where to sit, where to grab a hot dog, or where to take a leak almost every suggestion had something to do with "where to be when the band does this, that, etc."

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

BuckeyeVet's picture

I wouldn't count on that.

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."          - Groucho Marx

 

HerbieTheHighest's picture

Sorry, but this story is just beginning. It's not going away any time soon.

http://americans4innovation.blogspot.com/2014/08/ohio-states-michael-v-d...

Herb

-10 HS
Citrus's picture

I read an amazing article on this whole affair long but recommended. 

https://medium.com/@thomasafine/the-anatomy-of-a-scandal-7e222a66bbc7

+22 HS
DRAKE008's picture

I would up vote if I could.  This article was worth the read.

+5 HS
GoBucks10's picture

I think this article pretty clearly lays out many of the issues going on in this whole scenario.  The listing of potential openings for legal cases I think is also summarized well.  With the Band Alumni having such a large community from which to gather information and evidence, I expect their own investigation results to be in support of what this article has stated.  I hope that if the alumni or current band members want to protest in some way, they do not do it at the expense of the band's performance or reputation.

While I personally support Jon Waters in this matter, I do find it hard to imagine he will get his job back.  As I've mentioned on another article on this site, the University will most likely find an "outsider" to direct who is not directly connected to the band to try and show that "a corner is being turned."  That will however, in my opinion, be a shame and disservice to TBDBITL which has thrived for decades on the constant leadership of those closely connected to itself and Ohio State.

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

+6 HS
chitown buckeye's picture

Great read. This mess is far from over and is going to be very interesting to see what happens in the coming months.

"I'm having a heart attack!"

+5 HS
Gametime's picture

This is an OUTSTANDING article.

I can't stand the mentality of "dems the rules" or "dats the establishment".

Wrong is wrong, period. Ohio State wasn't "justified" in firing Jon Waters, period. 

Justice should trump everything, & quite frankly upholding justice has been broken in this country for a LONG time.

Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington

+3 HS
LILBUCKEYE's picture

It's a shame that stories like this won't get the same amount of attention. The problem these days is that people watch the biased news reports and suddenly think they are an expert in the subject and won't listen to any other P.O.V.  I, for one, support Waters even more after reading this article.

I would love to see Drake comment on this article

The Ohio State University '17

+3 HS
CGroverL's picture

+1....thanks for the info. I honestly did not know that this issue had so much going on and I merely thought it was a "going through the motions" kinda thing. You miss a lot when you live in Florida. When you have to try to break up a pajama party to try to get to the heart of a school, that's sad. I've been screaming "conspiracy" since Tatgate started. Oh well, when the quality of your school is graded upon how good your football/basketball teams are, I guess that puts a huge magnifying glass over the entire school. To think that putting "member of TBDBITL" on a resume to get a job is a bad thing is 100% ridiculous.

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

RedStorm45's picture

I think that part is overblown.  With the story only coming out last month and more facts coming to light from current former band members, I think that it truly remains to be seen if band members are getting negative backlash for putting that on their resume.

But I agree with everything else in the article.

+1 HS
RedStorm45's picture

But remember, if you disagree with the firing just take a walk around the block.

+6 HS
Citrus's picture

Funny, a certain very outspoken 11dubber has been strangely silent on this matter lately.

 

+2 HS
Tater_Schroeder's picture

Awesome article. Thanks for sharing!

How Firm Thy Friendship

+1 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Thanks Citrus. Great read. Man, this situation is a sad shame...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+1 HS
BuckeyeVet's picture

@Citrus - Bless you for posting that article. The attached references include the letter by my neice, nicknamed "Donk". I'm damn proud of her, and have attached her letter to Dr. Drake. ( https://www.facebook.com/jocelyn.smallwood/posts/2286388165784?fref=nf )

"A Letter from Donk."

Dear Dr. Drake, Dr. Steinmetz and Dr. J,

I have spent a great amount of time the past few days weighing whether or not I should write to you. I ultimately chose to do so only because I felt my comments would add a unique and valuable perspective to the conversation regarding the recent dismissal of Jonathan Waters. Like several of my female colleagues in the band, my name was included in the 23-page report released last week. However, so far as I know, I was one of the few who were actually interviewed during the investigation.

While I take issue with much of the report that was compiled by the university, my greatest concern was echoed recently by several of my female colleagues in the band. Many of us were surprised to find ourselves included in a list of “sexually explicit” nicknames. Even more surprising to me was that at no time during my interview can I remember being asked about the details of my nickname, the circumstances under which it was given to me, or, perhaps most important, my feelings about my nickname. While the authors of the report may feel confident in their ability to draw their own conclusions about the feelings, opinions and intentions of others without asking them, I would argue that in this case, their clairvoyance has failed them miserably. Thus, I feel it is my right and duty to clear up several issues about the fourth name listed in the report: Donk.

Donk is not a malicious or offensive nickname. Donk is a person. Donk is a five-year member of the band, a former i-dotter, and a two-time squad leader of KL-Row, which also happens to be a predominately male row. Donk is a daughter, sister, friend, a woman and, most importantly, an independent, clear-minded person. Donk is not a moniker that was placed upon me without my consent, and it is most certainly not something of which I am ashamed.

What angers me the most is that, in spite of my feelings, I along with several others on the list have been mischaracterized as victims of “sexual harassment” without being asked directly for our input. Never in my life have I felt uncomfortable being known as Donk. It has appeared on shirts, social media, in papers for classes; in the label I stuck in my band hat and on a piece of duct tape in my raincoat not because it is a joke, but because it is my name. It is who I am.

Although when I say “never in my life,” what I really mean is never before last Thursday. I now find my nickname listed in myriad news reports as proof of the alleged horrible, sexually aggressive culture of the OSUMB. While I am just as disappointed in the media for not bothering to do their homework, I would hope that a report dealing with an issue as serious as terminating the employment of one of the university’s most visible, respected figures would have been undertaken with more care. In my five years in the band and since my graduation, I’ve discussed my nickname and where it came from with my friends, family, coworkers, bosses, alumni and random people passing me on the street. Odd then, that seemingly the only people who were uninterested in learning more about my nickname were those responsible for putting together a report about sexual harassment in the band.

But, at the center of this issue is an investigation that I feel was deeply flawed and executed with great carelessness and little concern for finding the truth. As someone with a deep understanding of the band, I would think that the hour I spent in the interview would have been used to gather the information I have about these issues and experiences. But as I recall, I was asked only a few general questions about the majority of the content in this report. Had you asked me, I could have told you that many of the examples in the report occurred long before Jonathan Waters was director. I could have told you that before we name rookies, we speak to each of them individually to ensure that nothing in their name touches upon any area they might find offensive. Had you bothered to ask, I could have told you that a large amount of the evidence on which the report relies is outdated or inaccurate. Or, perhaps, that is why they didn’t ask me?

I am well aware of the fact that the opinions of individuals often differ greatly. And I would guess that few people are making the argument that there is nothing in the culture of the band that needed to change. I am also certain that you have heard numerous examples of how the man you fired last week was the fiercest advocate for culture change in the band, joined in his efforts by Chris Hoch and Mike Smith and the majority of the band members. And had I been asked, I also could have offered numerous examples.

The truth is that this band makes strong women. It makes strong, smart, witty, confident and, therefore, beautiful women. As I have said before publicly, this band creates strong women because it treats us as equals. To make the band, individuals must be proficient in two areas: they must play well and march well. Gender, race, sexual orientation, religion, political view and socioeconomic status do not matter. In November, 2012, an African-American woman named Donk dotted-the-i against Michigan. It wasn’t because the men in my section decided to let me. It was because I worked hard and emerged on top. And on November 24th, when I realized my dream in front of more than 105,000 screaming fans, my fellow band members celebrated alongside me, not because I had broken a gender/racial barrier, but because we’re family and that’s what we do. Appropriately, last Thursday night, I once again found myself being supported by those same people. They are not nicknames on a list. They are not details in an investigation. They are not examples of harassment. They are my family. And the report does little justice to the truth that this band supports and nurtures women.

Please do not insult me as an individual by suggesting that I am so ignorant and so helpless that I somehow have managed to spend five years being consistently sexually harassed and not realize it. Do not treat my name as something that should be condemned when it is something I will continue to wear as a badge of pride.

There are negative things in our world—this is a fact of life. That does not mean that nothing can or should be done about them. However, it seems a shortsighted response to paint an entire organization with a broad brush when you only bothered to interview a handful of people about what has happened. The characterization of my name is simply one facet of this carelessness.

In closing, I still care deeply not only for the band, but for my university. That is why I write to you. The manner in which this report was put together is alarming. And if it is alarming to a twenty-three year old recent college graduate, I would hope that after hearing my story you as leaders, would, at the very least, look at this report and the manner in which it was produced with more scrutiny than you have up to the present time. Good management decisions must be based on accurate, well-researched, timely information. The report produced by the University’s compliance office, which served as the basis for the decision to fire Jonathan Waters, was none of those things.

I hope that in the future I can continue to serve my band, my university and community with pride and honor, and I will do so as a proud alumna both of this institution and of its band. Someday, if I am lucky enough to have children, I hope that I can share a love for Ohio State with them, just as my parents did with me. To echo the sentiment of another band alum I heard recently, I am certain with every fiber of my being, that if I have a daughter who wants to try out for this band, I will drive her across the country to try out. Moreover, when I do, I will make sure that she knows her value is not determined by what is said in a report, or in the news, or behind closed doors in a meeting. For that, I will tell her, look within yourself.

Respectfully yours,

Donk
Jocelyn Smallwood
TBDBITL, 2009-2013

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."          - Groucho Marx

 

+9 HS
DRAKE008's picture

Made a mistake and deleted, hopefully. Also, IMHO this letter should be a forum topic in and of itself.

+1 HS
BuckeyeVet's picture

@Drake008 - https://www.facebook.com/jocelyn.smallwood/posts/2286388165784?fref=nf

Also, at the end of the article referenced by CITRUS, and written by Thomas A. Fine,  it is footnote number 3.

Not a problem, Drake008. Thanks for your input. It probably should be a forum (a little long for this comment section).

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."          - Groucho Marx

 

Citrus's picture

Wonderful letter. I remember that day, Donk! I was there in the student section going bat-shit crazy because I was damn proud! Just like I do every time that i is dotted! I love the Buckeyes, I love Ohio State, I love football. But, the most stoked my friends and I got all of last year was during that amazing half time show vs Penn State. I said to a friend "wow we just scored over 60 points but I am most impressed with TBDBITL." 

On the letter, great points.

+2 HS
FunZone's picture

I was lucky that my 5 years in TBDBITL coincided with Jocelyn's. When a university employee accused us of having a sexist culture in a closed-door meeting at a rehearsal last year, she and countless other women in the band stood up to defend us. I'm as thankful as I am proud that they continue the fight to this day against a report with outdated, handpicked and incomplete information.

I asked Braxton how his knee was before halftime at Berkeley and he said, "What up, man."

+4 HS
1967Buck's picture

This young lady touched my heart, more ways then one. I think everyone needs to read this story and maybe Dr. Drake needs to fine another job himself. Peace.

+2 HS
MrMeanMan's picture

This video was a collaborative effort between a few current band members and alumni. One of the alumni's family runs the company OhioStateVideos.com and produces the band's video yearbook.This was going to be submitted to the university for approval to play at games before the band comes onto the field, but that is highly unlikely now. The band has been searching for a new trailer since the university stopped playing the old one in 2010 or 2011 because (direct quote from the athletic department) "it didn't feature the cheerleaders enough." Here is the previous incarnation of the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5m7BITRD7Y But I'm glad it was still released anyways because this new one is ridiculously awesome.

+4 HS
GoBucks10's picture

Thanks for the background on this one.  But seriously though..."it didn't feature the cheerleaders enough."???   Come on.

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

MrMeanMan's picture

Dead serious. They wanted a more "all-around gameday experience inclusive" video...even though it was the intro for the band...and was going to be played right before the band came out. It was also cut by the same lady who after finding out that Script Ohio was 75 years old suggested that it was "about time the band started doing something else." She has since been reassigned within the athletic department. 

+4 HS
GoBucks10's picture

Dear God, are you kidding me?!?!?  Ohio State is BUILT on traditions like those.  Changing the athletic logo was one thing, but I'll be damned if I'd let this stuff change without raising hell.  As another 11W'er commented above, I go to the games for football, but a huge draw is the band and losing high step and all-brass would really hurt my enthusiasm.

All you have to do is listen to the intro section of the 2013 Hollywood show when they form the Superman logo to know just how great the all brass sound is.

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

+1 HS
CGroverL's picture

Well no one agrees with me but in my opinion, the NCAA itself is against tradition. It isn't just Ohio State. It is the entire nation.

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

GoBucks10's picture

I don't think anything more accurate concerning the NCAA & nation has ever been stated so simply.  +1

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

cdubs's picture

Thank you for the on-topic info.

apack614's picture

Would you guys want him to get his job back?

Serious question, no pun intended.

"If we worked half as hard as our band, we'd be champions." - Woody Hayes

+6 HS
DRAKE008's picture

As things appear now, yes.  However, I think it's highly unlikely

+3 HS
Citrus's picture

President Drake, is that you???? 

+7 HS
DRAKE008's picture

No, just an unfortunate coincidence.

+2 HS
jwh7's picture

You are no doubt correct. But while at Cal-Irvine, Drake fired a staff member but do to relentless pressure from the alumni and national media, he had to retain the person. For those that think that the band alumni is only a small fraction of the total alumni universe, this is true. But to all Buckeye faithful, what is the Ohio State Buckeyes is not only the football team, but the band itself. The band gets it's funding from the athletic department and if the control falls to the School of Music, look out; politics and power grab at its finest. Since coach Hayes to Urban Meyer, the OSU coaches have supported the band, but Urb seems to have a special allegiance and I would guess he is following this situation closely. As he reports directly to the BOT and not Gene Smith, perhaps any input from him would be worthy.

buckeyboy

osu07asu10's picture

The band gets it's funding from the athletic department and if the control falls to the School of Music, look out; politics and power grab at its finest.

This is actually pretty damn interesting...

Prior to 2013, the band's entire budget was covered via the athletic department. In 2013, that changed to about 20% of total funding came from the athletic department, with the rest coming from the Colleges of Arts & Sciences.

That is an interesting dynamic indeed...

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+3 HS
MrMeanMan's picture

1/3 comes from athletics, 1/3 from Arts & Sciences, and 1/3 from the President's office.

osu07asu10's picture

I'm not trying to join in conspiracy theory conjecture but the timing of that funding split couldn't be worse for that narrative...

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
MrMeanMan's picture

You should hear some of the conspiracies floating around the alumni base...

osu07asu10's picture

I think people are taking from my comments that I believe that Waters should have been given the ax...and that couldn't be further from the truth.

There is absolutely an undercurrent at the university. There is a shady side of doing business/working for them. I would go as far as to say that everyone has dirt on everyone. If I wanted to, I could call up the lantern and drop bombs about the athletic department (and facilities) all day long. 

I experienced it first hand. I sat across the table from the Associate AD and my two direct bosses who hadn't had issues with anything I was now being let go for. At first, I was incredulous and then I realized it really didn't matter I was the sacrificial lamb.

This is how I feel about Waters, and just speaking from personal experience I can't see the situation ending well for him (meaning, getting his job back).

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

NW Buckeye's picture

Thanks for explaining your posts.  Most of us had no idea you were coming at this from a 'been there' perspective.  Nobody deserves to be used as a scapegoat.  My hat's off to you, good sir!

Tater_Schroeder's picture

Absolutely.

How Firm Thy Friendship

BuckeyeVet's picture

Yes. Under conditions that he fulfill whatever guidelines the university wants to get the band to where they think it should be so this doesn't happen again.

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."          - Groucho Marx

 

Buckeye in Illini country's picture

Absolutely he should get his job back.  The report has been shown to be inaccurate, out-dated, and lacking in basic statistics.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+1 HS
FunZone's picture

I want what Jon wants. I believe the current band (barely 22 hours old) overwhelmingly wants him back. 

I asked Braxton how his knee was before halftime at Berkeley and he said, "What up, man."

+1 HS
Menexenus's picture

HELL TO THE YEAH!

I am going out TODAY to get myself a TBDBITL license plate.

Real fans stay for Carmen.

+1 HS
FLAMikey's picture

Drake is making Karen Holbrook look comparatively benign.

osu07asu10's picture

Me thinks you weren't old enough to tailgate pre-Holbrook...

 

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+7 HS
ExpressiveBuckeye's picture

However, Pres. Drake has never used the phrase "drunken orgies" when talking about students...

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

+3 HS
BuckeyeVet's picture

Give him time.

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."          - Groucho Marx

 

+2 HS
GoBucks10's picture

I think the amount of discussion going on here is evidence of the importance to which we hold TBDBITL to the football program and the university.

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

+5 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

You would not find this amount of discussion for any other school's band.  TBDBITL is TBDBITL for a reason, and we are damn proud of it and don't want that fact to change.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+4 HS
GoBucks10's picture

Another good article from the same author who wrote the one which CITRUS linked to.

https://medium.com/@thomasafine/our-honor-defend-69d869011337

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

+2 HS
CGroverL's picture

Thanks for posting that. It shows EXACTLY how the band feels about TRADITIONS that TBDBITL should be able to keep. I'm a Buckeye by birth only. I moved to Florida before my 8th birthday and have been here for 33 years. I only wish that I had the HONOR to be a TRUE Buckeye.

The band is pissed...and someone needs to do something about it. If someone decides we should riot, I'll be there. I have a feeling that Waters is gone for good and he has a big paycheck coming for his troubles. Ohio State makes me proud to be from Ohio and the band plays a big part of that. If the band is pissed, I'm pissed, too. Both of those articles taught me most of what I know about the entire situation. Thanks again to GoBucks10 and Citrus for the enlightenment. Go TBDBITL!!!

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

buckskin's picture

People laugh at me because I have the all brass opening for Carmen Ohio as my ringtone. Drake is similar to Holbrook in that he doesn't understand what makes Ohio State, Ohio State. He doesn't understand the strength of the bonds between the football team and the band. I am being dead serious, lets bring Gee back for a 3rd go around and get rid of some of the burdening political correctness. Hasn't OSU learned from the past people (Cooper-TTUN) who just don't get it?

+3 HS
Mhennin2's picture

Gee was such a competitor for OSU he was even challenging the nuns, he got IT. Nobody is safe, Gee is coming for you. Screw PC it's ruining this country

+2 HS
GoBucks10's picture

My ringtone is tbdbitl playing Hang on Sloppy and I wake up to the ramp entrance...

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

jwh7's picture

See that 610 is reporting that Waters and attorney as asking for a meeting with the BOT. This is getting hot and heavy and don't think it will be resolved anytime soon. Sound like Waters is seeking reinstatement. 

buckeyboy

+1 HS
BHT's picture

BEST AD/TRAILER EVER!!!

I could watch this all day. No offense to the football people, but this trumps all of those football hype videos.

Oneida54's picture

If the  School of Music gets their way we won't have a marching band at all!! My daughters school doesnt have one because"  Marching bands teach nothing and have few redeeming qualities." according to the Music Experts,

+1 HS
BeijingBucks's picture

My mom was in the band... Circa 50 years ago. I started to ask her how she felt about all this and whether she ever rand around at midnight in her und.... Then suddenly all I could think was 'lalalalala... I'm not listening!... lalalala...' Couldn't deal with the imagery. Didn't want to know

 

 

None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. ~ John Milton

Maceyko's picture

Our local school's band director is an OSU Marching Band Alumni and pretty good friends with Waters.  His issue is like most others - a small sample size was used to issue a report that embarrasses the entire history of the band.  For a school like OSU to go public with that report without truly doing their due diligence is disgusting.  What would we be saying if ESPN did this to our football team?  Yeah I guess maybe they have in the past - lol.  It's really not different though and it wasn't even an outside force that did this!  He claims that in all of his years he never saw anyone forced to do something they didn't want to do and of course things got a bit crazy at times - it was college as he put it.  However, he said that Waters actually was taking heat because he was trying to slowly change the culture because he realized that in today's world some of those things could come back to get the band - guess he didn't think it would be him as the scapegoat.  I'm embarrassed by this whole thing, but mostly I think our new President failed as a leader in his first test or at the very least the people that supplied him with the information is a major concern.  I hope Waters does get his job back although who knows! 

+1 HS
RedStorm45's picture

Not only that, Waters received glowing reviews just a few months back in trying to curb the culture.  So he gets remarks (positively) on his review for trying to change some of the traditions and culture, then a few months later he gets canned for allowing the culture to exist.  WUT.

+2 HS
GoBucks10's picture

And to boot, he was called out for "not doing enough or anything" to curb the culture.

So disappointed in those that made this decision.

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

Mhennin2's picture

Another link written by a former band member and current lawyer. Long, but it puts the report to shame http://www.westandwithjonwaters.com/jeffrey_r_cox_esq

+1 HS
DRAKE008's picture

Thanks for the link. Would love to see this guy go through the whole of it.

GoBucks10's picture

Anyone on 11W staff considering doing a bit of their own investigation into the Waters matter?

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

M Man's picture

Start with a FOIA of all emails between the Office of Compliance and University Intergrity, and the Department of Education.  Look particularly at all communications involving Chris Glaros, and any possible communications between Glaros, the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights, and also the Justice Department.  Check to see who in the DoJ used to work with Glaros and Richard Cordray, and whether they had any contact with anyone at OSU, and most particularly Glaros.  Glaros at one time worked with Eric Holder; follow that historical connection into the present case.

+1 HS
Mhennin2's picture

At this point I have such little faith in the BOT and Drake, I feel like this was planned a while back and they knew they couldn't get this going with Gee. I bet they took extra precautions with communications and the likeness. Both the BOT and the president should go cause clearly they aren't Buckeyes, they're selfish power hungry morons who are at best incompetent

GoBucks10's picture

That's a bit ominous, there.  M Man, I'm curious where your thoughts lie on this whole matter, since you have more of an 'outside' perspective compared to my somewhat biased view.

"Because I couldn't go for three."  - Woody Hayes

M Man's picture

My theory is simple.  That the OSU Board of Trustees is under massive pressure from the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights and the Department of Justice to respond with some massive reaction to any documented complaint about any "culture" of harassment, even from someone as remote as a single band member's mom.  (In the Gibbons case at Michigan, the complaint was brought by a local blogger, not the purported victim.)

Chris Glaros is an intensely political guy.  Since 2011, sexual assault and sexual harassment issues have become an intensely political battlefield.  The clearly-defined (by any and all accounts) pressure points in the case of Jon Waters are the Department of Justice, the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights, the OSU Board of Trustees, and the OSU Office of University Compliance and Integrity.  And Chris Glaros is a player in each of those arenas.  He is of course the Assistant Vice President of Compliance Operations and Investigations, and the apparent author of the Investigative Report that sank Waters.  His old mentor Richard Cordray is now a senior member of the Obama Administration in Washington, and the federal judge that Glaros clerked for, Algenon L. Marbley, is on the Board of Trustees.  It would be interesting to know if any of the Glaros-contemporary attorneys who used to work with Cordray switched over to any of the following: the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights, the staff of Sen. Sherrod Brown, the staff of Senators Claire McAskill or Richard Blumenthal, or the staffs of any of the Senate committees that have spent the last year working on a new bill to hammer universities with multi-million-dollar funding losses for failure(s) to handle sexual harassment and sexual assault claims the way that the Administration wants.  This is a very aggressive area for progressive political activity.  And one avenue in which Chris Glaros, who went to Columbia and Stanford, might feel would boost his political career.

The New York Times has opened an entire section for debate on this general subject.  I won't vouch for the Times' editorial neutrality -- in fact I'd strenuously deny any Times neutrality -- but it shows you what a big issue this is for the cognoscenti of power Democratic politics.   

HerbieTheHighest's picture

Jon Waters and the band are a straw man/smoke screen/sacrificial lamb. Stop looking at the band.

What we are dealing with here is a two-headed monster- the administration and the athletic dept. Those two are the cultures that are corrupt and need changed. There's no way Gene Smith isn't involved in this. Look how badly he messed up Lenee Buchman's situation, which so conveniently preceeded the Glaros Report.

Herb

-10 HS