Anything Else Forum

Anything Else Forum

Offtopicland. This still isn't the place to discuss politics, religion, or hot-button social issues, however.

Doug Gottlieb

Sebastian's picture
August 25, 2014 at 4:09pm
65 Comments
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This afternoon, Gottlieb compared Sam doing Manziel’s celebration to an offensive lineman mocking the moment when Sam kissed his boyfriend after being drafted.

 

 

 

 

HotSauceCommittee's picture

Gottlieb is a tool. He is beyond a tool. He is a garden shed.

Stick to March Madness buddy.

-1 HS
IGotAWoody's picture

He sucks ass during March Madness, too. He should stick to finding something he actually knows, and go do that, instead.

 - License to kill gophers (wolverines, badgers, etc) by the government of the United Nations

+1 HS
brandonbauer87's picture

I might be in the minority, but I like Gottlieb. I think people might be a little uncomfortable with his tweet, but it's not crazy. Gay athletes want to be equals, that includes being mocked. It may not be politically correct, but I think it's fair game. 

+47 HS
sox33osu's picture

You put it perfectly. Personally, I look at Sam as a player not a homosexual male in football. He's no better or worse than anyone else. I'm not saying it would be the most tasteful gesture, but guys go after other guys' weaknesses. The NFL is far from a league of political correctness, so I think Doug's question was very fair.

+11 HS
IGotAWoody's picture

I don't ding Gottlieb because his comment is politically incorrect, I ding it because it's stupid. That would be a pathetic fail if an offensive linemen tried it.

 - License to kill gophers (wolverines, badgers, etc) by the government of the United Nations

+6 HS
sox33osu's picture

Not if it knocks him off his game.

+1 HS
IGotAWoody's picture

Much more likely to piss him off than knock him off his game. Like I said, it would be a fail.

 - License to kill gophers (wolverines, badgers, etc) by the government of the United Nations

sox33osu's picture

All trash talk is designed to piss people off. If it makes him mad enough that he loses focus, the OL wins.

+1 HS
IGotAWoody's picture

Sure. And often, trash talk back fires. If it pisses him off and elevates his level of play, it's a fail.

 - License to kill gophers (wolverines, badgers, etc) by the government of the United Nations

crusher's picture

I ding him because he has the balls to criticize athletes for their run in's with the law.

A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men

+2 HS
OSU2002Grad's picture

Are you shitting me that this comment received 17 upvotes? Unbelievable.

Manziel gets mocked for the money sign because he does it on the field as a celebration. He opened himself up to it. Mocking Sam for kissing a guy on tv is mocking him FOR being gay. It's not even close to being in the same vicinity as comparable. If somebody wants to talk trash to Sam for anything OTHER THAN being gay, I don't care. But that's a fucking line you don't cross.

+4 HS
brandonbauer87's picture

I don't know that it's mocking him because he's gay, just for the over-the-top display on tv. This topic was a big issue on here, so I won't delve any further. Like someone else said, you go for a weakness. If he's not insecure about it, he'll just brush it off. You could argue that a male/female display like the one he showed would draw quite a bit of attention as well. 

+4 HS
OSU2002Grad's picture

You don't know if it's mocking him for being gay? Ok then, I'll tell you: It's mocking him for being gay.

It's not fair game. There are plenty of things you can say to a guy that might be a weakness. I think I remember one time Duke fans chanting "HIV" to Juan Dixon because his parents died of AIDS. Fair game?

Some lines you don't cross. Race, Religion, Sexual Orientation. You just don't touch that shit. It's so far away from being appropriate trashtalk that I'm stunned I even have to say it.

+4 HS
Crumb's picture

I'm with you man, these are lines you don't cross, and I'm glad you threw in religion too, cause as much as I don't care about Tim Tebow, it was wrong to mock him for his way of like just like it to mock Mr. Sam, or to use the horrible n-word. As a human these are lines I won't cross. At the same time I'm gonna fully expect people to cross them toward me because the world is nasty, and when you expect the garbage it dumps on you, you'll be happily surprised when on occasion the good in people shines through.

"The only good thing about it is winning the d*** thing" - Urban Meyer on The Game The War

+5 HS
crusher's picture

Sam shouldn't be mocked for the kiss thing because it wasn't his fault that ESPN kept playing it over and over again to prove how super liberal they are. The dude was just celebrating the biggest moment of his life with the love of his life. If you want to mock ESPN for trying to shove their agenda down peoples throats I get it but Sam didn't do anything that warrants being mocked. If I was going to mock Sam at all I'd mock him for having a boner at the combine when he ran his 40. That was funny and mock worthy. Not because he is gay but because any guy that popped a chubby while running a 40 is funny.

A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men

+1 HS
Patriot4098's picture

We just spent an entire thread mocking Kyle Kalis for his use of a tampon. Pretty sure that was a knock on his sexual preference, but that was OK?

"Evil shenanigans!"     - Mac

-1 HS
TheBadOwl's picture

Michael Sam shouldn't be immune from trash talk, but...

Mock him for other stuff, then, not for his sexual orientation. You don't see JJ Watt or Jared Allen doing racially-based taunts when they sack black quarterbacks.

Also, isn't that kind of a lame thing to mock him for anyways? "Oh, dude, you were so happy to be drafted that you kissed someone you love. HOW DOES THAT FEEL?!"

I like Gottlieb, but he's trying to create a controversy that doesn't exist.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

+12 HS
Gametime's picture

Well I'll say it's not PC to make fun of someone's sexuality, but hell, guys rip on how ugly someone's wife is or their mom, and some guys cross the line talking about wanting to do some inappropriate things... so there's a line from an integrity standpoint that some guys push, but this one is kinda hard to call given the nature of sports and trash talk among guys...

Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington

TheBadOwl's picture

Mocking someone for being openly gay is nowhere near the same universe as saying "Dude, your mom is ugly."

If a white player said something racist or made racist gestures to a black player on the field, people would justifiably have a huge problem with it.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

+8 HS
brandonbauer87's picture

Alleged racist remarks have occurred on the field/court. Usually, the person who retaliates is the one punished. That doesn't make any of it ok, but it happens. 

+1 HS
Gametime's picture

Sure it is. We're talking about insults, trash talk, whether in jest or just plain mean-spirited. You don't think guys with hot wives don't get trashed talked about what a guy would want to do with her? You think there aren't any racist remarks or anything said questioning a man's manhood is said on the field?

Besides it's apples and oranges - and I hate it when people compare gay issues to black issues because I find it disrespectful to myself and people dealing with systematic racism that has been in place for centuries. We get complimented for being well spoken while a guy gets called a hero for simply being himself?

Not in the same universe indeed my friend...

Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington

+1 HS
KBonay's picture

I find it interesting that you have been a member for almost a year, but recently just started posting a shit-ton of forum topics. I know this joke is getting old, but are you related to the 9er?

If not, can I suggest looking for (searching) for like threads and posting in there?

-3 HS
KBonay's picture

Interesting.....Sebastian's account has been removed since this post......

+1 HS
Seattle Linga's picture

I just looked and you're right - wonder if your analysis is correct.

+1 HS
Calgarybuck's picture

It's ok to talk trash when your on the field, not wearing a suit wearing make-up in front of a Tele-promter.

+3 HS
THE's picture

Gotlieb is still alive?

As much of a turd as that dude is, I don't mind this provocative question from him...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-1 HS
dcbucks's picture

No comment on this, but it made me think: With the amount of players wearing microphones it's only a matter of time until someone gets themselves in hot water from an on field comment directed at Sam. 

+1 HS
OSU_1992_UFM's picture

Ill get hell for this

But if Sam wants to be equal, then this is going to happen. It's the nature of football, nothing can be done about it IMO. The fact he is a gay player is a big deal because we make it a big deal

UFM_Renewal

+10 HS
mh277907's picture

A couple things..

But if Sam wants to be equal

Why does it have to be "if he wants to be equal"? Shouldn't he be treated equally no matter what his sexual orientation is?

The fact he is a gay player is a big deal because we make it a big deal

It is a big deal because he is the first. To pretend that this is all media hoopla is doing a disservice to civil rights advocates everywhere. 

then this is going to happen. 

I am glad you bring this up. The fact that you say people are going to taunt him for his sexuality only proves my point that this is a huge deal that he came out. 

I am sure Michael has already accepted the fact that people are going to make fun of him for his sexuality. And I am also quite sure that he hopes that if he puts up with the taunting, the next gay football player will be taunted because he is too slow or not strong enough. Not because he is gay. 

buckeyebobcat

+13 HS
OSU_1992_UFM's picture

Im just saying that if we didn't make a big deal out of him being taunted, then it wouldn't be a big deal.

Did Sam come out and say this offended him? If so please post a link. If it doesn't bother Sam, then it doesn't bother me.

Perhaps saying "equal" was taken wrong, I mean as a player...not as a person

UFM_Renewal

mh277907's picture

So, if a white player called a black player the "N" word but the black player doesn't get offended, we should be ok with it?

Did Sam come out and say this offended him? If so please post a link. If it doesn't bother Sam, then it doesn't bother me.

I am not sure what you are asking? I never said Sam was offended by this nor did I say he would be offended by anyone making fun of his sexuality. I just said that I am sure he has come to grips with the fact that people very well may make fun of his sexuality. But again, just because it doesn't bother him doesn't make it right. 

And, yes, you are right. He deserves to be treated equally as a player. Taunting him is fair game. Making fun of his sexuality is not. 

buckeyebobcat

+1 HS
OSU_1992_UFM's picture

I hate when people say "The N word"....I dont mean the actual word, I mean THE N WORD. It automatically puts that shit in my head.

Im not getting into a debate about race with you, theres nothing to be gained. I think youre splitting hairs at this point

I never said Sam was offended by this nor did I say he would be offended by anyone making fun of his sexuality. 

I asked if Sam said it...not you

UFM_Renewal

+2 HS
mh277907's picture

Haha, I hate it too but I was trying to prove a point. Reminds me a of a good bit from a Bill Burr stand-up. And I wasn't trying to debate race. I just disagree with you that we shouldn't make a big deal about someone being taunted for their sexual orientation just because that person is strong enough not to get offended. I would hope that we as a society would not accept that. 

buckeyebobcat

+2 HS
droessl's picture

+1 for the Louis CK reference. 

+2 HS
mh277907's picture

Good call. I thought it was Bill Burr. 

buckeyebobcat

Sims_tOSU's picture

MH don't be so butthurt for someone else's opinion. 

-2 HS
TheBadOwl's picture

But if Sam Jackie Robinson wants to be equal, then this is going to happen. It's the nature of football, nothing can be done about it IMO. The fact he is a gay black player is a big deal because we make it a big deal

Before I get killed for this, yes, society is much more accepting of Michael Sam today than it was of Jackie Robinson back then. But it's still a valid comparison, not necessarily an equal comparison, but valid nonetheless.

Jackie Robinson faced shit exactly like this. Trash talked–and worse–because he was black. If the ridiculous hypothetical proposed by Gottlieb was along racial lines instead of being about Sam's sexual orientation, nobody would be condoning it.

There are lines you don't cross – race, religion, and sexual orientation. Go ahead, call his mom ugly. But making fun of someone's sexual orientation in such a malicious way is never, ever okay.  

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

+1 HS
mh277907's picture

We are pretty much on the same page, Owl. No one is saying that taunting Michael Sam should not be allowed. Just saying that taunting him for being gay is not treating him equally. No one is taunting Johnny for being a heterosexual. No one is taunting Russell Wilson for being black. But if someone did, we should not tolerate it.

buckeyebobcat

+2 HS
BROSEPH's picture

His point is completely valid.  But a money making sign is nowhere near as offensive as a poke at someone's sexuality.  Trash talking is usually lighter in tone (a mom or sister joke is light IMO, it's just to get in their head), an "attack" on sexuality, race, etc is a step too far.

If it happens in a game and caught on camera, the media will destroy the offender.  LGBT rights groups will bury the player and the player will eventually have to make a public apology.  Not siding one way or another, it's just the way the media/social issues work in this age.

Does anyone remember the Charlie Villanueva and Kevin Garnett backlash after KG made a cancer remark to CV during a game?  That got quite a bit of media play.

+3 HS
sox33osu's picture

"If it happens in a game and caught on camera, the media will destroy the offender."

Not all the time.

Squirrel Master's picture

Doug Gottlieb + no one talks about him anymore let alone cares what he thinks = saying outlandish dumb statements like this

I agree that trash talk should be fair game but Gottlieb is far from an Olineman talking trash and his analogy is pretty off. Plus, why does kissing his boyfriend have to be his signature move? did he do it on the field? no. he celebrated a big moment in getting drafted. not like he goes around kissing opponents on the helmet after he makes a big play.

but as my first part states, this is Gottlieb trying to stay relevant. Even with March Madness coverage he disappears into the background unless he says something dumb again.
 

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

+7 HS
BTBuckeye's picture

Curious as to what Sam's actual sack celebration move will be though. I'm sure it will be fabulous whatever it is!

I hope nobody makes fun of Sam though on the field. I'd hate to see that (and the public apologies).

+1 HS
DJ Byrnes's picture

Doug Gottlieb is a smarmy clown.

Californian by birth, Marionaire by the Grace of President Warren G. Harding.

bucks_4_life's picture

Smarmy... I don't know what it means but I like it!!

The juice is worth the squeeze

+1 HS
ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

It isn't cool to bash him for his sexuality.  Now if you want to talk trash that doesn't involve that, OK.

Class of 2010.

+4 HS
BUCKfutter's picture

how about when tebow got his hair cut like a friar as a rookie, obviously poking fun at his religious beliefs, which also happens to be a so-called protected characteristic? if making fun of sam is out of bounds, that should have been too

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

+9 HS
CC's picture

from a guy named Buckfutter...

+3 HS
BUCKfutter's picture

hahahaha touche

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

+1 HS
NW Buckeye's picture

It is interesting how people back Gottlieb and equate the Manziel taunt to a sexual taunt.  On the one hand you have Manziel, who allegedly lied about monies he received for his signature then openly used the hand signal 'money sign' to show the world just what kind of person he is.  Then there is Sam, who had already come out to his teammates and decided to come out publicly to put an end to any rumors that may be going around possibly causing NFL teams to have questions about his sexuality.  He decided, for better or worse, to let all NFL teams know exactly what they were getting if they were at all interested in drafting him. 

Let's see, Johnny M openly used the money sign to taunt opposing teams, fans, and for that matter, the nation, to say more or less 'see what I got away with!'  And, Sam was caught for one instance kissing his significant other in a moment of celebration.  Did Sam run around the field after a sack and blow imaginary kisses at the opposing team and fans?  No.  Did Manziel taunt opposing teams and fans with his 'money sign' after running/passing for a TD?  Yes - on many occaisions.  Regardless of where you stand on Sam's sexuality you have to understand that he never used it as a taunt during a game.  The same can not be said for Manziel's blatant behavior on the field - it was televised ad nauseam! 

Another thing that is curious is that Gottlieb is more or less standing up for Manziel here while he did everything he could think of to throw Pryor/OSU under the bus during the tatgate scandal. 

Anyone who thinks Gottlieb is not a tool really needs to look at his track record.
 

+4 HS
Ahh Saturday's picture

First, Michael Sam is a big boy and will take care of himself. He's the first openly gay player in the NFL and I'm sure he's aware he'll get some shit for it. People can argue hypothetically on message boards, but this kind of thing will get sorted out in the locker room and on the field. Second, that Johnny Manziel money finger crap needs to be mocked, and mocked and mocked, until he stops doing it or someone shoves his fingers up his ass, and I say that as a lifelong Browns fan. Finally, rightly or wrongly, the first person to mock Sam with any gay taunts is going to find his wallet a lot lighter after the commissioner hears about it. That's the way things work these days.

+4 HS
zeeman60657's picture

So many homophobes.  Sad.

Zeeman60657

-3 HS
The Rill Dill's picture

Just because someone doesn't believe in, or agree with------does not make them a 'phobe' of anything.  

-3 HS
OSU2002Grad's picture

Not necessarily either way. If you're afraid that all of the attention could make Michael Sam a posterboy for the normalization of homosexuality, then yes, you're a homophobe by definition.

And I would say there are a lot of homophobes who want Michael Sam to fail precisely for this reason. It's sad.

+2 HS
zeeman60657's picture

The mere fact that my comment about homophobes got -5 stickers, says a ton.

Zeeman60657

+1 HS
Rob Reese's picture

Actually, it rec'd 14 DV's.  I don't necessarily agree with those.  Just pointing it out since you're unable to see.  11 UV's.

tOSU class of 2009, College of Arts and Sciences

What Would Troy Smith Do's picture

How in the hell has this thread not been shut down?  Doug Gottlieb posted something really stupid and deserves the crap he gets.

1.  The comparison is just stupid.  Like apples to giraffes stupid.

2.  It isn't the same thing.  It just isn't.

Someday we will be at the point that everything can be mocked because we are all accepting of things that are different/scary/Michigan……Myself, I can't wait for that day because I really could care less and I can and do laugh at anything and everything.  However, I'm smart enough to realize we are not there and some things you just can't go after.  YET. 

+2 HS
ELJTSA76's picture

Another attempt by Gottlieb to be funny, and completely missing the mark. 

+1 HS
HouseHarleyBuilt's picture

The fact that its 2014 and we still have to talk about this shit is just embarrassing. Coming from an actual homosexual, can't we just talk about football? Gottlieb is just doing what every other media asshole with a Twitter does...get people to favorite/retweet. Coming out is hard on its own. Coming out and having an entire nation continue to remind you that you're not equal and half your co-workers are disgusted by you...cant we just focus on football?

+3 HS
FairfaxBuckeye's picture

Gottlieb, the guy that was expelled from Notre Dame when he was charged with stealing credit cards from a roommate and two others and fraudulently charging over $900 to those cards.

Let's face it, the guy is an idiot--and has been for a long time.

+2 HS
Hovenaut's picture

Considering the subject matter, and it being so close to the start of the season, I wasn't sure what to expect here.

In any case, I'm not sure what point Doug Gottlieb is attempting to make there - in any case, he's coming off more the "hey, look at me" type than Michael Sam may have ever wanted to be.

I couldn't care less (see how that's done, Bert?) about Sam doing the "money signal", or any celebratory act in football for that matter.

LIne up and play the game, players.

Line up and talk about the game, commentators.
 

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I am not very smart.

BucksFan2000's picture

If Sam did a kiss move every time he made a big play, then it would be fair to taunt him for it.

Since that's not what happened, this is just another example of someone trying to cause a controversy that doesn't exist.

+2 HS
MordenoftheSith's picture

Would anybody consider the following taunt, which is just as common on school yards as it is on a professional field, to be about sexual orientation if it were directed at Sam?

"You hit like a girl!"

I'm sure some folks would say it is, despite the fact that this phrase is used to attempt to demasculate an opposing male player at ALL levels of play.
 

If you only knew the POWER of the Dark Side.

gobucks96's picture

A. The situations are not that similar.

B. Sam is going to get that treatment every game until he proves it doesn't phase him. If other teams find a weakness, no matter how un-classy it is, they'll find a way to try to use it.

C. Both men get paid a crap-ton of money and they should be able to handle it as part of the job. Right or wrong...