OSU is No. 3 in Coaches Poll; drops to 4 in AP Poll.

November 17, 2013 at 12:42p    by Anonymous (not verified)
75 Comments
Dammit

AP voters were apparently more impressed with Baylor's 60-34 win over Texas Tech than Ohio State's 60-35 win over Illinois.

Baylor received eight more votes in the AP poll than the Buckeyes did. Fortunately for Ohio State, the AP is meaningless in the BCS formula.

Ohio State remained in third place in the coaches poll. 


75 Comments

Comments

BoFuquel's picture

Sham-Pain cost too much. GO BUCKS!

I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

D. Anthony's picture

it's Shampoo for your ain !

D. Anthony

J.Mo's picture

Pardon my French but the AP voters who put Baylor ahead of Ohio State can go f*ck themselves.

D. Anthony's picture

Oh, it matters alright. When other voters see it headlined on ESPN (2nd story listed in the column) and you know other stupid humans are influenced on how the AP votes and ESPiN reports.
F the AP and ESpiN!!!

D. Anthony

smartfootballrankings's picture

Everyone blaming this on the media - 
Why is it that Baylor is higher than the Ohio State in nearly every computer ranking system (including those that include margin of victory and those that don't)?  Are they biased by ESPN?
http://www.masseyratings.com/ranks.php?s=cf2013
Also, Baylor is higher than Alabama in most, as well.  I agree with this assessment.

DaiTheFlu's picture

I know the AP is completely irrelevant, but goddamn does this piss me off. How in the holy hell does Baylor pass Ohio State after allowing almost the exact same number of points? My god, this is just fucking laughable at this point.

We can't stop here; this is bat country...

rock flag and eagle's picture

My guess is that AP voters hold Texas Tech (7-4) in higher esteem than Illinois (3-7). Also, Illinois is ranked 116th In total defense, while TT is 76th.  Texas tech is a top ten offense (7th) and Illinois is not (56th). while the scores were nearly identical, Baylor performed better on defense relative to the competition and better on offense relative to the competition.
That would be my guess. But, I'm not an AP voter, so I don't know for sure.
 

buck-I.8's picture

Stop using logic man, everyone just hates Ohio State and your use of critical thinking is impeding our collective ability to be big, crying vaginas about it. 

DaiTheFlu's picture

Dude, the announcers in the game were incessantly talking up the fact that Ohio State had "struggled" and would get passed over by Baylor or Stanford. Then of course every other ESPN talking head used our game as an opportunity to disrespect our conference and completely ignore a 22-game win streak. Stop pretending that Buckeye fans are making this up.

We can't stop here; this is bat country...

buck-I.8's picture

That may be so, but that's far from the point you were trying to make initially.

smartfootballrankings's picture

LOL at the best post in here getting downvotes.  Baylor is playing better than us (look at the games against Buffalo if you want).  Simple as that.  If they win out, they deserve it.
It's idiot homers who get upset about this stuff that are the reason for the Ohio State Hate Train.

Ramzy Nasrallah's picture

My guess is that AP voters hold Texas Tech (7-4) in higher esteem than Illinois (3-7). Also, Illinois is ranked 116th In total defense, while TT is 76th.  Texas tech is a top ten offense (7th) and Illinois is not (56th). while the scores were nearly identical, Baylor performed better on defense relative to the competition and better on offense relative to the competition.

Ohio State also played in 20mph wind on the road. Baylor played in a dome at home. Matters.

BME_Buckeye's picture

Well, hopefully the computers can factor in the coefficient of wind resistance into their calculations for the remaining BCS polls. 

Look closely, because the closer you think you are, the less you will actually see.

 

otrain2416's picture

Unfortunately our country is full of idiots and don't think like this. They use their brains and say ESPN told me the BIG 10 and OSU is overrated so any win they have is irrelevant.

KBonay's picture

@TIM_MAYsports: Ohio State still No.3 in Harris Interactive poll. Also 3rd in coaches poll. Those are two-thirds of BCS formula, computer avg. other third.

smartfootballrankings's picture

The ranking matters less than the points.  If OSU is 3rd with 1410 votes, and Baylor is 4th with 1409, it doesn't really make a difference, they are effectively tied.

smartfootballrankings's picture

Nit point, but Neutral game in Dallas.

dr green's picture

Yeah, 'cause 100 mi away is just as far as 300+ mi away.

smartfootballrankings's picture

The interesting thing is Baylor's defensive performance was actually *worse* than Ohio State's against Illinois when looking at it from an adjusted YPP standpoint.   But Baylor's offense did a lot better (partly because we went into conservative mode for a while).  This was actually the 2nd worst Offensive game for the Buckeyes (adjusted for opponent), and the 4th best Defensive performance.  Baylor had their 3rd worst offensive performance, and 3rd worst Defensive.
Final scores are rarely telling of how teams played on the day.  Unfortunately, it's hard to dissect the information that is actually useful with so many games going on every week.

otrain2416's picture

There's a reason the AP poll doesn't matter in the BCS

dubjayfootball90's picture

And this is the perfect explanation as to why, haha

smartfootballrankings's picture

The AP poll is consistently better than the LOLUSATODAY poll, though.  It's not part of the BCS because the BCS is retarded, not the other way around.

BuckeyeAZOH's picture

I wouldn't say the AP is irrelevant. All of us thought it was relevant last year when we were hoping for the split NC. Same thing this year seems possible. We just need to go and dominate the rest of the opponents and see what happens.

Purple Raider

ColdBuckeye's picture

It's irrelevant in context to the BCS point system. 

cinserious's picture

And the AP got us exactly where last year? Fuck the AP! Those voters tune into .Espn and take their word for gospel, then vote accordingly.

"Get him a body bag, Yeah!"

Deadly Nuts's picture

If we demolish Oregon in the Rose Bowl and the Bama vs. FSU game is really sloppy do you think we get a split?

Fuck m*ch*gan! That is all.

3cent's picture

Not when the poll that would have to give us the split is the AP.

Buckeye Rocket Sci's picture

Nope. It will be the excuse that Oregon just "didn't play Oregon football," so it doesn't matter, and the NCG would be "sloppy" just because both the teams are truly "elite," especially compared to the Big Ten. There will never be respect for the Buckeyes until we destroy 'Bama/an undefeated FSU/Oregon/etc.

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence" - Calvin Coolidge

DaiTheFlu's picture

I wish you were right, Buckeye Rocket, but I seem to recall shutting down a potent Oregon team in the Rose Bowl and doing the same to a highly ranked SEC team in the Sugar Bowl. How did that work out for us, perception wise?

We can't stop here; this is bat country...

Buckeye Rocket Sci's picture

That's true, but I've heard all sorts of excuses about youth or whatnot as to why we beat Oregon back then. As for beating Arkansas, it's easy: we cheated by selling paraphernalia for some tattoos that, obviously, provided us such a large on-field advantage so as to make it even remotely possible that a B1G team could even think of defeating a top SEC team..
Sadly, your point does remind me that there is always excuses. Oh well, I guess we just have to win 100 in a row!

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence" - Calvin Coolidge

cinserious's picture

If we win 100straight, its because the schedules too week and the big ten its down

"Get him a body bag, Yeah!"

smartfootballrankings's picture

The only way you win 100 straight in college football is by playing a soft schedule.  It would be harder than winning the lottery twice in the same year than pulling off 100 wins in a row with any kind of competitive schedule.

VestedInterest's picture

Honestly, why would we expect anything less from the media types? They're obviously going to lap up the pabulum regurgitated by their brethren. Doing anything else would require independent thought which the media has shown little propensity for.
They'll suckle the teet of Mark May et al until there remains nothing but no more games and zeros in the loss column. This narrative does nothing but benefit us (the team).

KBonay's picture

It's ok. The last team they said should jump us was Stanford & how did that work out. 

Buckeye Chuck's picture

I'm surprised, frankly. A lot of people must have changed their minds, and it's rare for that to happen this late in a season without a team losing. 
But let's face it: if Baylor loses next week, it's unimportant; and if they win on the road against a team with 1 loss, it will be hard to argue that their total body of work isn't superior to the Buckeyes'.

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

Haybucks's picture

if Baylor loses next week, it's unimportant

You're right in the grand theme of things, but it does mean that the AP voters who put tOSU at a undeserving position don't know shit and should have their voting privileges taken away.

I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.
- Edward Gibbon
 

smartfootballrankings's picture

It's hard to argue Baylor's body of work isn't better than the Buckeyes right now, unless you are wearing scarlet and grey colored lenses.
I love the Buckeyes, but let's be realistic and logical here.  Baylor has been destroying everyone, has a better offense than us, and a significantly better defense.  They are a really good team.  I think they are better than Bama.

O-H-I-Owe-U's picture

All our Buckeyes can do is win. If MSU goes to the Big championship game, you know it's going to be a heavyweight tilt.
If we the fans can be of any help to the team, I think it's just play it cool and have faith. We just can't let ourselves get worked up by this BCS BS and contribute to the distraction of the media hype.
Do what we do, one game at a time. That's how we've got here. If we slotted for the Rose Bowl, you can be sure our team will play angry. Than we can watch confetti rain down on our team with a 26 game streak still alive, knowing we will have a very angry team working out in the winter and the spring. 
Dynasty mode.
 
 

Hovenaut's picture

Absolutely
Pathetic

"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

igo43's picture

Agreed. Thankfully, there are playoffs next year.

"The minute I think I'm getting mellow, I'm retiring. Who ever heard of a mellow winner?" - WWH

EvanstonBuckeye's picture

I'm guessing when the Fathers of Football created the game and its rules, they cared not a shit about how a bunch of wonks would rate individual teams.
The focus on voting, SOS, style points, and all the other BS has taken the drama off the field. It's ridiculous that the teams that win all of their games have to seduce the Jessie Palmers and Colin Cowherds of world (not ganging up on them specifically, as it is their job, just using examples) by trampling teams instead of just winning in order to get considered good enough to play for the championship.
The biggest disservice is to the players. I was all on board for just letting this year play out (and still am) and would completely understand if FSU and Bama are 1-2 if we are undefeated as well. Bama has the crowns, FSU still has the best win with Clemson (debatable, but still pretty compelling) and is destroying the competition. The way the spin has become ("will the Buckeyes lose voters because they haven't played a great third quarter?") is out of control, though. Did anyone think Illinois was going to win the game yesterday? No. Enough with the invented storyline, then, that we're anything less than a very good football team.
End of rant. Sorry.

ScarletNGrey01's picture

The win against Wisconsin is looking more and more like a quality win, better IMO than any win by Baylor (Oklahoma? ... please) or FSU (Clemson? ... please).  IF the bucks win the next two games and IF they beat a really good MSU team in the B1G championship who may be ranked in the top ten by the time that game rolls around (kinda nervous about that game actually) then I don't think we have to worry about Baylor.  The Big XII does not have a conference playoff, which could hurt them.  We may have to root for Florida (ugh) though to get to the top two.  Actually, Bama has looked a little shaky at times this season.  Just keep winnin' and see what happens.

The will to win is not as important as the will to prepare to win. -- Woody Hayes

smartfootballrankings's picture

BXII has a 9 game conference schedule, and more than 3 top 50 teams.

BME_Buckeye's picture

And why is FSU win not more impressive than OSU? Let's assume UW doesn't get screwed and has one loss to us, they have the same record as Clemson. FSU goes on the road and hammers Clemson, while we escape with a win after taking our foot of the gas at home. Who has Wisconsin beat to get any respect? Clemson, a full strengthen UGA team that even with injuries beat LSU, UF and USCe. I disagree.

Look closely, because the closer you think you are, the less you will actually see.

 

smartfootballrankings's picture

Wisconsin beat ASU, who is a really good team.

D. Anthony's picture

It does matter, unless you don't think what the AP does affects/influences how anyone else votes in other human polls that do count.
This is some bullshit.

D. Anthony

Kurt's picture

Nailed it.  I was about to post the exact same comment.  It may not calculate directly but it happened and it's influential.
Good news is the Bears will have also seen this.  And perhaps feel the pressure of being one spot away from a birth in the title game.  They also play Okie State, at Okie State in primetime on ABC.  They've never had a stage like that before (Okie State certainly has).  I'm intrigued to see how that goes for them - less we forget we're only 2 weeks removed from Oregon's night road game at Stanford.

40 Degrees North's picture

The media narrative continues. It's always something with these folks. If the Bucks win by 70, the narrative is how dare Meyer and the Buckeyes run up the score. That's no class at all. If the Bucks win by 20 points, the narrative is it was a close game and how dare they not win big. You can never make these press pukes happy. 

BassDropper's picture

The media is winning. They are starting to take the fun out of football. Before this year, I loved college football - I hate it now.

DIRECTIONER

FROMTHE18's picture

Ill take an undefeated season, B1G title, and a beating Michigan over pleasing those asshats with AP votes.

TBDBITL0509's picture

Had a friend that posted a rant on this earlier today. This image is most telling:

Nearly identical scores, but the narratives are exact opposites. 

smartfootballrankings's picture

Look at final score, become CFB expert.

buckeyeguy0615's picture

If you actually roll your mouse over where it says "Baylor Rolls," it says "Baylor Survives."  But whatever.

TBDBITL0509's picture

If that's true (it's a mobile screen capture, which doesn't really let you scroll over), my question is: Why bury that?

kholmes's picture

Regarding the AP poll, its simplistic to just say that alot of individual voters moved Baylor ahead of OSU because of how they looked this week based on Baylor being #3 now and OSU #4...so its interesting to see how they actually passed OSU.
For example, if a voter last week had OSU 3, Stanford 4, and Baylor 5..then Baylor would have gained relative to OSU in that one person's vote just because Stanford lost and having nothing to do with OSU/Baylor outcomes (since they presumably would now have OSU 3 and Baylor 4).
There is such a wide disparity of rankings across voters which I dont think people realize and leads to some crazy movements. Last week there was an AP voter (Jon Wilner) that had OSU #8 and Baylor #9. This week he has Baylor #5 and OSU #7...it looks absolutely crazy and you question the sanity of these voters but this is what you get whenever you have human polls whether they be coaches or writers.
If I look at the results voter by voter for this week, here are the changes for OSU and Baylor
OSU: Across all votes they improved by 10 positions if you sum up the voters. One voter improved OSU's spot from 5 to 3 (having them pass Baylor in process) while 4 voters moved OSU down (worse) a spot. But its not as simple as saying 4 people had Baylor jump them...For example. one voter (Steve Batterson) moved OSU from 2 to 3 while leaving Baylor unchanged at 4. Batterson was the only AP voter who had OSU as 2 last week. So Baylor improved pointwise relative to OSU on Batterson's vote because he had FSU jump OSU but it had nothing to do with any change in Baylor (since he downgraded OSU but left Baylor at 4).
Baylor: Improved 26 spots across all voters...they were lower the prior week in alot of ballots so were able to make big jumps such as the guy moving them from 9 to 5 this week. Also moved from 6 to 3 on one ballot and had a few ballots where they moved from 5 to 3 (where OSU stayed unchanged at 4 as the pollers must have had Stanford at #3).
EDIT: Just for humor sake, the bizarre ballot of Jon Wilner (San Jose Mercury News) is as follows in order: Ala, FSU, Auburn, Oregon, Baylor, Clemson, OSU
 

00Buck's picture

"There is such a wide disparity of rankings across voters"   What koolaid you been drinking, their is NO DISPARITY with voters, they are looking for each and every excuse to put the BIG out of the picture...... IF MSU is so freakin tough why the hell with one loss are they NOT in the top 10.....ESPN controls the majority of press voters across america.... don't believe it google ESPN radio affiliates...  and then google espn Newspaper affiliates...... DAMN !!!! Leroy   now I get it !!  SEE  Yer HONOR  DA DEFENSE RESTS !!!!!!!!! 

Upon this Rock, I build my house....and Let no man put asunder

kholmes's picture

No intention of making excuses for rankings as I was just trying to actually look into the details as to why OSU moved down. No argument here as I totally agree big ten gets screwed because of the weak conference narrative even before the season starts. Regarding disparity, I was just tying to get the point across that movement in the polls isnt just a matter of voters deciding who should be number 3 or 4 between baylor and osu. I was saying the voters are so scattered that even as of last week some had Osu as low as 7 and baylor as low as 9 so movement in polls can occur due to games you think would have no effect on it. 
Just from that last EDIT i had, as crazy as it sounds but if Clemson were to lose it would probably move OSU up relative to Baylor since that one guy had baylor 5, clemson 6, osu 7 so presumably osu would move up to 6 in his ballot.
 
 

Buckabroad's picture

To make sure I understand correctly: Baylor wins one at home under ideal conditions; OSU wins by 25 pts. on the road although it played beneath its potential. How does this make sense. And if we did not bring enough "style", why is Bama still the run away no. 1 after it won vs. a 4-5 team in a game that was closer than the 20-7 score implies?

"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."

BME_Buckeye's picture

For the last fricking time, Baylor didn't play at home. It was a neutral site game.

Look closely, because the closer you think you are, the less you will actually see.

 

Whoa Nellie's picture

Sure.  But the last time I looked at a map, Waco was just down the road from Dallas, while Lubbock was, um, way far away. 
Irrespective of home v. away, Baylor did trail in that game, did have to come back, and did "only" win by a similar margin to the Bucks.  They also had the benefit of a number of questionable officiating decisions, so maybe it was a "home game".

“Don’t fear criticism. The stands are full of critics. They play no ball. They fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down on the field are the doers, they make mistakes because they attempt many things.”

southernstatesbuckeye's picture

<poof>
Time Traveler here.  I see unneeded angst in Buckeye Nation.
Just wormholed in to remind you of a few things...
What is extremely laughable is that the voters put OSU as NUMBER TWO at the beginning of the season!  The strength of schedule was already known to be as bad as Alabama's strength of schedule, yet there it was for all to see.
Why is strength of schedule coming into play at all right now?  One would think that as long as the Bucks won out, just like Alabama, they would remain at #2.
Sadly, the death throes of the BCS and its pundit driven narrative are showing.
Still...Baylor will lose, and Alabama will lose.
Wait until the pundits are FORCED to place Ohio State at #2 again.  That day will be so hilarious to watch them squirm in pain at having to put the Buckeyes in the last place they wanted to put them.
It will be too late for the pundits to get behind whoever the new up and comer might happen to be at that point. 
But hey, Buckeye fans, you should be gleefully looking forward to it.
Trust me, it will happen.
I am, after all, from the future.
Peace and Party Favors!
The Time Traveler
<poof>

Jeeves's picture

Come back Time Traveler there are so many questions I have to ask you, come back!

buckeyedude's picture

So next week we're Okie State Cowboy fans.

 
 

BME_Buckeye's picture

No. We are UCLA and LSU fans.

Look closely, because the closer you think you are, the less you will actually see.

 

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Why is that?

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Menexenus's picture

So you're saying that we're OSU fans?  I think I can handle that. 

Real fans stay for Carmen.

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

South Carolina struggled with 4-5 team at home, yet they're still ahead of MSU.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

BME_Buckeye's picture

And who has MSU beat to be ahead of South Carolina? 

Look closely, because the closer you think you are, the less you will actually see.

 

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

They're 9-1, and didn't lose to a terrible Tennessee team.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

ScarletGray43157's picture

Of course the ESPN link is "Baylor Jumps Ohio State in AP Poll".

In old Ohio there's a team that's known throughout the land...

charles's picture

Just looked at the expanded rankings for the USA Today/Coaches.....
Michigan is ranked 28th.
Um........wat?

BassDropper's picture

Stop complaining. That benefits us. I feel dirty for saying this, but I have been rooting for Michigan all season, just like I have been rooting for everyone we have played. We need Michigan to be good for the B1G to be good. IDK why people dont realize that.
 

DIRECTIONER

charles's picture

Not complaining. Just really, really, really, stunned. They've looked shaky in their wins, and the talk last week was about the ship sinking. I'm all for a good Michigan team, but it that team deserving of a #28?  

amk1616's picture

everybody needs to just relax.  there is still a month of football left.  everybody still has at least 3 games left.