Grinch Talks About White - Was It a Mistake He Wasn't Playing Sooner?

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RK84's picture

He kinda gives off a shitty vibe. I think it was talked about earlier this week, sounded like he was grasping at straws for an excuse.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

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steve-OH's picture

I agree with this. You'd definitely have to think the coaches feel on the defense about not playing him sooner.

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fishleehooker's picture

He was getting defensive sure. But he is taking on a lot of blame. Things like this, you can't really blame the coach unless you attend all the meetings and practices.  Then you know if he deserved it. Maybe he was better earlier, but Grinch and the other coaches thought he needed even more motivation to become an even better player. Its not like we have lost a ton of games. With all the suspension and all the stuff that has happened, we still can win out and take the Big Ten. If we had lost 3 games and this happened, I'd be a LOT more concerned, but one loss happens to nearly every team ever. So you have to lose to the right team, basically. Anyway, on one hand I can't blame Grinch for getting defensive about starting this player earlier, when every coach has had to do more to cover for the suspension, and those things can't always be helped.  BUt on the other hand, I have just as big questions regarding Grinch's unit as Davis'.  Also, Grinch costs more and had more accolades and hype, while Davis is taking all the criticism.  

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stxbuck's picture

Coaches are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation w/ the media on questions like this. Completely honest answers aren't always the best for team chemistry, but the more zealous fans won't take anything less than virtual hari-kari for not verbally confirming their armchair QB takes 150%.

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Buck68's picture

What does a coach expect from fanatics, wannabes, and media with an agenda on a which witch hunt?  ;-{)}

An old joke punchline goes:  "when you're goin' after buzzards... you have to play their game"!

When a questioner 'gets your goat'... you're playing HIS game.

Agree about the 'completely honest answer' - many tactic and technique specifics, injuries, relative weaknesses, personal adversities are none of the public's business.  So...tell 'em...and those things are fertile fields for humor and 'oh...if only you were me' asides.

And if our coaches are simply doing their job, available player and scheme assessments abound.  Summarize in part at a higher level of abstraction.  Discuss concepts and tradeoffs and relationships.  Consider the logic & assumptions in many  questions, and solid responses... suddenly abound.

Teaching moments... all.   And what fanatic, media personality, and other narcissists ... couldn't use a little reality education at university?   For 'there are no dumb questions', but dumb questioners reveal themselves out of their own mouths.  ;-{)}

Buck68

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bd2999's picture

We are not at practice or anything. So, I assume there is a reason that OSU did not put him in. If they had a great answer on the bench, one has to think they would have tried it by now. Seemed like one of those moments that we all love, when a guy puts it all together and then goes and plays well.

It would be nice if he can make a habit of it now.

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Cincity Buck's picture

Brendan White looked terrible in the spring game last year and looked like an All American against Nebraska.  In fact, he looked more instinctful than Fuller has all year.  My guess is that the light has turned on for him.

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seyekcuB's picture

Might have something to do with being a wideout when he arrived on campus.

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NHBuckeye's picture

And then a linebacker.  

Fields of Dreams

 

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fishleehooker's picture

Brendon himself seems to be blaming the fact that he didn't understand some plays and was being too hard on himself.  Football isn't rocket science. The playbook isn't easy, but its still football. I just think he didn't know the plays well enough, which caused him to hesitate or lose a step. Now he is letting it fly.  

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stxbuck's picture

If someone is playing S-and has the requisite athleticism-success really is about filmwork and recognizing the correct response/hole/target as the play unfold from their assigned position. It just takes a while for the film reads to translate into second nature on the field.

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Buck68's picture

2999, are we looking for a needle in a haystack?  THEE answer?

Should we 'have' or 'get' a moment?  Or are we exhorted to "win the moment" as in each moment?

If we respond to a question by reacting, we have instinctively done just what the animals do.  Start with What Comes First... and that provides perspective on the size & shape of things... while you harnass that instinctive angst or defensive feeling.

useful ref:  "IF", a poem by Rudyard Kipling

Buck68

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oztintacius's picture

How else you expect someone to answer a question that is basically "Is it possible you weren't doing your job very well?"

Also, so much of practice is reps.. sometimes it's hard to see the "instinctual" plays until they're on the field in live action.

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fishleehooker's picture

Further, I think its kind of crappy that instead of getting credit for coaching Brendon into this moment, as well as seeing improvement in Pryor, we are all wanting answers. This is a tough gig, but that is kind of cold. 

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chris's picture

I agree with this.  On another note, it's gotta go through fall camp without the boss around.  Just working in a school, it takes a while to adjust to a new principal and vice principal.  I feel like I have to calibrate my classroom to the new culture of the school.  If I were to move to a new school and be told that the school leader was going to be out for 5 weeks, it'd take me a while to adjust... and what I do isn't broadcast in front of millions... just about 25 (who mostly aren't paying attention anyway).

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BUCKAROOTIMESTWO's picture

Chris, Why did I chuckle out loud @ your last comment about them not paying attention.

I guess every now & then, someone’s candid and truthful comments will just make you laugh!

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chris's picture

Haha, cause the truth is funny, man :)

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Buck68's picture

hmmm....

then wile your while,

and you won't wile away your precious time allotted.

And what's the ol' 80's classic management saying...

"work expands to meet the time allotted"?

And the enduring classics,

1-"Why is there never enough time to do it right... but always enough time to do it over...and over...and over?"

2-Isn't it 'uncomfortable' to walk into your boss' office and see him doing what you just told him 'couldn't be done'?

Buck68

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chris's picture

In this case there wasn't a boss to say "this can't be done" to, so then the boss was unaware of any staff doubts or deficits at the time when the boss could've shown how it can be done during fall camp. Without that kinda help from my coaches and boss, I'm not as good at my job. I'd bank that this is the case in this scenario as well.

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Buck68's picture

Chris, thanks for your straightforward and strong response.

Background:  we were ordered to 'teach leadership' to junior officers at the Air University, in what we fondly called 'the Aerospace Kindergarten'.

there we a number of guest lecturers brought in.  One was Gus Economos, and his lecture was entitled "Informal Leadership in the Formal Organization."

in any human group, there are leaders and followers... in any situation, where 2 or more people are trying to go in a similar direction.

Suggestion: "can't" is an attitude of self that depends on the choice of that self in any situation.  Rationally, it's tough to compare 'not as good' to a hypothetical that was not there. ;-{)}   But it is true we can 'punch out' of any situation for any... reason or feeling.

 As for scenarios... we would to well to examine each before we 'yank and bank', as they say in the fighter pilot biz [speaking for a couple friends in that biz].  I have a dead friend who crashed proving how good he was...and killed his follower back-seater all by himself.

Perhaps this will help:  After all that expensive training, continuing training, checkrides, experience, briefings, manuals & checklists and leaders of many types all over the place... you still go on each mission with a Dash One full of Notes, Cautions, and Warnings... that says at the beginning:  "You are the aircraft commander.  Nothing in this book substitutes for 'analyzing the situation and taking the proper action."

IOW...reality is 'tag, you're it'!'

So, in any kind of whether... there's always a boss.  If we say there isn't... we just confirmed it's... me.

p.s. A whole lot of people of all kinds... contributed to trying to relate these thoughts into a sense of perspective.  Not one input... is... 'mine'.

Buck68

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chris's picture

Aerospace Kindergarten is a fantastic term. Sorry to hear about how your friend and his passenger went out.

Bank was too strong a word... replace it with guess in my first response to you. There's always a boss, but some bosses are better than others. Urban is one of the best in this biz. I'm just still wondering the extent to which his absence (and knowledge of his return) generated some/most of the relative struggles with this team. I also question whether it is fair to place blame on any one individual. To me, it seems like they're out of sync - mis-calibrated and the absence might explain most of it.

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Buck68's picture

Seems like we're pretty close on how we view blaming.  "Blame" tries to project accountability elsewhere, when each of us have no excuse if we are 'sentient'.

Agree with 'guessing'.  IDK who's 'better', in other than a mano-a-mano moment.  Makes football outstanding 'reality therapy'!

Agree we are 'out of sync'... and narrating makes it worse.  At best it converts cohesion and synergy to... fractional addition.  

But, trying to figure it out using our preferences, instead of comparing to a common standard and measure... is like the blind 'leading' the blind.  And in about 2 hours, we need to be prepared for the next test....

Buck68

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chris's picture

40 minutes to the test now... hopefully this mano-a-mano moment works out in our favor and we finally get a much needed A before Tuesday's evaluation results.

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stxbuck's picture

Agree-this is the point i always try to hammer home on here-you are probably more diplomatic about it than I am!

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Buck68's picture

Oztintacius...

debate class [and google searches] is full of terms to describe illogical & trap questions such as the classic loaded 'when did you stop beating your wife'.  How could a top coach at such a fine uni-versity not 'be' well-versed and prepared in those skills?  ;-{)}

agree designing practices to test "things that it's hard to see ... until they're on the field in live action"... is a good idea...  ;-{)}  Don't complain about it... remedy it!

and our prescription [aka preference] glasses have 1 focal length, whereas football is a dynamic, 3D sensory game.

Buck68

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Byaaaahhh's picture

Honestly I think his answer is probably closer to the truth than a lot of you are willing to accept. Is it more likely that the coaches are seeing bad safety play and saying "Eh, Wint tries his best, it won't be too bad." or "Look, Brendon/other safeties, you gotta step up your game here. Practice harder, study harder. We need to improve this position." And it took time to do? In the program where everything is a competition and the expectation is to be a championship contender every single year, which is more likely?

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Buck68's picture

"you need to do better"?

what an inspiring, helpful, skill-learning and developing...

... in put.     /s

Reps is the concept of practicing the identical skill as defined.

There is no sense or purpose to "likelies"... they are 'like' 'lies' be cause they say nothing about how to 'win the [each] moment'.

Buck68

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TomD's picture

Who ultimately makes the decisions regarding the starters, and those that play the most, especially on defense?  I doubt very much if it is Coach Grinch.  More likely Coach Schiano with strong input from Coach Meyer.  Coach Grinch was probably sent out to answer, what everyone knew, would be some very pointed questions.  That's what happens when you're, shall we say, lower down the totem pole of authority.

"I love football.  I think it is the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose."  WOODY HAYES

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WestSideTower'79's picture

I respectfully disagree.  HC and DC have position coaches for no other reason than to watch every rep on the practice field and be alert to all off-field issues - - diligence in film study, weight room, classroom and interactions with teammates - - and report upward.  Higher parts of the chain are there as back-ups and re-inforcements, positive or negative, as needed. There's not enough time in the day for the tops of the pyramid to be micro-managing every positional decision.

North until you smell it, west until you step in it

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TomD's picture

Ideally, I hope you're right. And that's how it should usually be done.

I suspect in some key decisions Coach Meyer does, in fact, micro-manage more than he probably should.  But it's his team. Sometimes I get the feeling that Coach Meyer cares so much about his players, especially the ones that have, to him, earned his trust and loyalty, that it gets in the way of running a fully performance-centered football team.  That may be part of the dysfunction that Eddie George alluded to recently in his radio interview that was included as a site article.

And to clear up any doubt about my ultimate opinion of Coach Meyer, if given a straight up choice between Coach Saban and Coach Meyer to be the head coach at Ohio State, I would easily choose Coach Meyer.

"I love football.  I think it is the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose."  WOODY HAYES

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Bratwurstcapitalbuckeye's picture

Did someone say say linebacker. Put him in coach. Can't be any worse.

Go Bucks!

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fishleehooker's picture

 He seriously has some size and pop....that isn't a half bad idea actually.  Maybe in the future at least. 

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RMLogic's picture

Its a response from a lousy coach that results show he has not done his job. Just as Schiano and Davis have been incompetent. Any defensive coach  that starts 2 LBs as bad as Werner and Borland should be fired.

Meyer's mental issue has prevented him from acting properly and firing these coaches that have screwed up this defense.

Does anyone in their right mind think Nick Saban would put up with this?

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TomD's picture

Who do you suppose makes the final decision regarding who starts on defense?  Coach Grinch? I doubt it. Coach Schiano? More likely, with heavy input from Coach Meyer. And I suspect that the defensive coaches are not ultimately making the decision regarding Pete Werner and Tuf Borland as starting LBs. Now, if you want to question the compatibility of the defensive scheme and the abilities and weaknesses of the players who start, that is more likely centered on Coach Schiano.

You're right, there seems to be something dysfunctional going on, just as I believe Eddie George alluded to yesterday (was it?) in a radio interview referenced on this site.  And Coach Saban is all business . . . Coach Meyer just isn't wired that way, IMO.  There is a personal side to Coach Meyer, that is admirable but, IMO, may influence how he approaches football decisions.

"I love football.  I think it is the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose."  WOODY HAYES

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WestSideTower'79's picture

While Borland and Werner ain't knockin' many peoples' socks off (neither people who are NCAA football players nor people who post on this site), I'm also betting that their combined TFLs, caused fumbles and recovered fumbles stand head and shoulders above any other combination of 2 LBs in the roster.

Just sayin'.

Harrison looks fabulous in pass coverage and lateral movement to contain wide runs. Hilliard and Browning seem to be the only ones who can occasionally meet a runner in a hole near the line of scrimmage and at least slow them down before a safety arrives.

My take is that there are just too many guys getting too many snaps with too many combos of players.   Does the sam need to make a half-step in any direction based on which guy is at mike? Intuition tells me that no single piece of the puzzle is shaped exactly the same, so the picture changes slightly depending on which 3 pieces you lay out there on any given play. And it's nigh impossible for each player to figure out the subtleties when there so much rotation going on around them.

North until you smell it, west until you step in it

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Ortonhallalumni's picture

Grinch needs to go if he cant admit he could be wrong. Look how bad the safety play has been
Must be feeling the heat...should first a guy making 800,000 and the poor performance he is responsible for. Too bad, takes an ejection to see the field....

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Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

I have no problem with his comments. Everyone has a role. He knows his. We, as fans, should know ours. It’s not that it’s an unfair question, but Grinch hasn’t been around long enough for much responsibility and accountability. Either put the torches down, find a different target, or try to understand what he’s stating. 

Read my entire screen name....

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BELLEFONTAINEBUCKEYE's picture

Meyer invited too many cooks to the kitchen. It is really that simple.

There can only be 1 head coach. Let the 2 other go, the best man, and hire another upcoming coach for the LB's.

I used to play sports, then I realized you can buy trophies.

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aj99's picture

I think you're right.  It should be easy for anyone who has senior level responsibility in their career to recognize this problem.  Too many people competing for authority and trying to prove they can make it to the next level.  I've said it before but having two failed head coaches as Co-coordinators is just plain stupid.  Most 9th graders wouldn't make that mistake.

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RMLogic's picture

Sick of this crap coach speak. With a defense that has been this bad get the lousy players that stink out of the lineup and try other guys.

See what happened when White got in- but it was not a coach decision it took an ejection and an injury.

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Madaris32's picture

These coaches need to man the heck up! I ultimately don't know how White will perform this Saturday or the remainder of the season. However, these coaches need to make better personnel decisions, implement a better scheme, put players in a position to succeed, and make better in game decisions. It all starts at the top. Too much loyalty and pampering grown men. I don't have to sit in practices or meetings to see something isn't right. The product on the field, speaks for itself. There's no reason for this team to fight for a victory every game. This is the worst coached team I've ever seen in my life. Coach, develop, and play the best players. It's not that freaking difficult. Who gives a rip about these practice heroes. Tuf and Werner have no business starting at linebacker for this program. Knox shouldn't ever see the field as a starter. Prince should've been benched three years ago. Jordan is a all american guard, not center. Wyatt Davis should be the starter. Sheffield and Arnette have no ball skills. But hey, let's keep starting these non-performing players. Schiano, Davis, Taver, Wilson or Day, needs to go. 

Ivan Madaris

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

Not practicing hard is a thing, I get that, but when you have guys like Wint, and Pryor struggling as bad as they have been, even if you know a guy isn't a practice stud, I think you still at least give him a look, and the fact that White hadn't factored in, in that manner, to this point, is mind boggling.

White and Proctor both should have at least seen a nice % of snaps when it was clear that Wint and Pryor just weren't getting it.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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oztintacius's picture

Also, all this makes losing Woodbey to FSU worse.. dude is really good.

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DroneBuck's picture

Lol, you think Woodbey would be playing here? Lack of talent isn’t the issue. We have dudes. Totem pole entitlement and lack of upward mobility is the problem here. If Woodbey had enrolled at tOSU he’d be hidden down the depth chart right next to Proctor. The only possibility of seeing the field would be through a rash of injuries & ejections.

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Sanitarian2's picture

White had better play the game of his life today or this forum will grind him into hamburger, based on a single game he's become the best safety in NCAA football in the last century. If he takes a single bad angle or misses a tackle or gets burnt deep this group will turn on the young man like piranha. Good luck sir, please play well. 

Sani

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