If we aren't in the playoffs, I expect Tate will be starting the Bowl game.
Boy, I got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals! - Butch Cassidy
You got DV'ed for this but I could very easily see Haskins sit out the bowl game like Denzel Ward did. Dremont Jones and a few others, too.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
Yeah it's a trend and I expect it to continue. I don't like it, but I understand it
im fine with it. higher our guys get drafted the more people wanna come here.
And often play heartless football that is probably part of the reason for our many struggles this season.
I agree. I may be way off on this, but I’ve read it on here a hundred times that OSU runs a business like NFL factory. A possible downside to treating your program like a business is you can lose a lot of passion and toughness.
So does Alabama....
"And often play heartless football that is probably part of the reason for our many struggles this season."
Yep. Cause & effect. We are an NFL prep academy at the moment. That's gotta change.
Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0
Unless Haskins shows improvement when moving in the pocket and avoiding the rush when Michigan comes to town, he ain't sitting out a Bowl Game because he isn't a 1st round pick. He has slowly been moving down draft boards due to his inability to avoid the rush.
Completely agree. Unless NFL scouts are completely blinded by "measurables".....and perhaps some are, I would think his draft status has been falling like a stone. It'll be interesting to see how he finishes the season.
Josh Allen went 7th overall, tells you all you need to know about what scouts look for in a QB.
Haskins makes Allen look like a 5th round pick, from a talent standpoint.
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
Exactly. I'll be stunned if he isn't a top 10 pick.
All donate $50 to your favorite charity if he's drafted in the top 10 in the 2019 draft
If this were last year, I'd take that bet in a heartbeat. This year, the number of teams drafting in the top 10 who need a QB is small, as in like, as it stands I only see 1, MAYBE 2 teams drafting in the top 10 who will be taking a QB:
New York Giants (1-7)
San Francisco (2-7)
New York Jets (3-6)
Oakland - from Dallas (3-5)
If Herbert comes out, he'll go first to the Giants. After that the only team in the top 10 who MIGHT take a QB is Denver. Haskins is anywhere from 2nd to 4th on the QB board, depending on who you talk to. Herbert is the consensus top guy followed by Grier/Haskins/Lock. The 4th QB went 10th overall last year. This year, the 4th QB, albeit more talented than the 4th best QB from 2018 (I'd take all 4 guys over Allen), probably won't go until early-mid 2nd round.
Outside of the top 10, here are the other teams that could potentially draft a QB in the first round, in my opinion:
Jacksonville (currently 12th)
Tampa Bay (currently 13th)
Chargers? (Rivers is 37 next month, currently 27th)
Patriots? (Brady's age comes up every year, and there was rumors they debated a QB last year round 1, currently 29th)
Exactly not even first round if he leaves after this year. I love the kid but completely inexperienced for the first round of the NFL
No reason he cant move. I think he wants to avoid getting hot and injured at all costs. You don't ever see him.scramble for 5 yards, even though he did just fine against michigan last year scrambling...WTF Is up with that?
Joel Klatt spent some time on this topic today. I just don't see Dwayne leaving after this season. After the first 3 games I would have guessed yes but since then no way. He has regressed as a runner, he panics when rushed, and would get eaten alive in the pros. He would have less success and money in the pros than Cardale at this point. He should stay another year unless he absolutely carves up the next 3-5 games, which I am hopeful for but simply don't see - especially with more mention of Tate playing directly from the head coach.
Not like he will actually get hit if he slides 5 yards before contact.
Slide? More like crumple.
I'm not so sure. I really think that Haskins has got to show up the last part of the year. The Nebraska game was not a good look for him and not just because he was off that day. He looked scared to me, after he got hit he was throwing off his back foot, throwing it too early, and that slide 5 yds before anybody was in the picture was pathetic.
I think he is going to have to show that he can stand in the pocket and deliver passes under pressure. We all know that he is very good in a clean pocket but you don't always have a clean pocket. These last few games will tell a lot IMO. Will he be able to complete passes under pressure? Will he panic when he gets hit? There are no Oregon St's and Rutgers in the NFL. The stats over the last five games and those of the same games over the same time period for JT last year are very similar.
Dwayne's passing stats in these last five games:
66.8% completion percentage
18 TD passes
8.0 yards per attempt
12.0 yards per completion
Pass Efficiency Rating of 152
2017 Opponents (@ Rutgers, Maryland, @Nebraska, Penn State, @ Iowa)
JT's passing in those 5 games:
70.6% completion percentage
18 TD passes
8.8 yards per attempt
12.5 yards per completion
Pass Efficiency rating of 176
The bigger difference is in the rushing game comparison with a talented Zone Read QB. This issue is real, and very present as they go into the tough part of the schedule. Urban's #1 focus right now along with shoring up the D against Big plays.
Same 5 games in 2018 - Dwayne and JK combined to rush for:
115 combined carries,
378 combined yards rushing
3.3 combined yards per carry average
2017 same 5 games - JT and JK combined to rush for:
108 combined carries
737 combined yards rushing, and a
6.8 yards per carry average
Will we see Tate? Who knows but there is little doubt that Urbans teams have done better when the QB is able to run.
So passing wise they are similar which is surprising to me. What is more surprising is that you knowing that Haskins is not a runner feel the need to compare their running numbers.
Would you like to compare Vick vs. Brady? because I know which one I would choose if I needed to win a game.
The running game is NOT Haskins fault.
Seriously the fact that people think that let alone utter it out loud makes me fear for the future of the world.
Do the Patriots need Brady to run to have a running game? No
You don't need a running QB to have a running game, you just need a coach who is willing to adapt to a players strength.
Which one of these is unlike the others? Smh.
Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!
Admittedly, I lifted these numbers from another board and it would have been a better comparison to compare both the running backs yardage to JT and JK's yardage. The fact remains that the running game is what is missing and the QB accounted for a large portion of it last year. You are correct that you don't need a running QB to have a running game and the players strengths are what is in question. Let's face it the line is nowhere near as good without Price and Jones. Just lining up and handing it off to the backs is not working. The question is was it worth going away from an athletic QB to a pass only QB? That question will be answered when we play better defenses. So far we have played against the 19, 29, 53, 76, 79, 105, 111, 127 rated pass defenses. You would never guess which one is 19 without looking it up.
I will admit that there were several times the last couple of years I was frustrated with JT's inability to pass the ball. I wondered why they didn't play one of the other QB's that could. It's all starting to become a little clearer to me now. The running QB creates much more problems for the defense than a one-dimensional offense.
This team has way more problems than not having a running QB but these numbers were surprising to me. I would have never thought that JT's and Haskins numbers would be anywhere near each other.
Do the Patriots, Bengals, Saints, Rams, or Steelers participate in NCAA football?
The last time a pure running QB won a NC was...
Watson isn't a running QB
Hurts isn't either
Tua can move but doesn't usually have to
Would you consider Jones to be a running QB?
How about Newton?
I'm thinking off the top of my head but is Tebow that last "running QB" to win a NC?
"pure". I'm sorry, but I'm not arguing "pure running". I'm arguing "threat". A championship qb in college needs to be a threat to run. Look at our friends up north this year. Shea is no JT, but he can make it happen and it has totally transformed the team.
Aaron Rogers is a "threat" to run but no one fears his ability to do so. QBs who can throw the ball down the field are the furture (and ironically the past) Haskins will go in the first round and it will be in spite of our HC and OC, both or who I think are great but too stubborn.
Kirok. Please don’t bring reality into this. There is nothing that drives me more crazy, than the fact that people think you need a running QB to run ball. I have said the same thing. Brady Brees and The browns don’t need a running QB. But but but those are NFL teams. Ok you got me. Neither does Alabama (I know Tua is listed as the almighty DT) look at the last ten years, Clemson, Georgia, Michigan, Washington, Stanford. Don’t think these guys read option.The people clamoring for Tate never liked Haskins, never will, wanted Joe Burrow, loved JT. Instead of putting fire at the feet of the coach where it belongs they wanna blame the QB. The most absurd thing I’ve ever seen. Unfortunately these fans are so blind you can’t talk reason with them.They will bring up some worthless stats. Stats are so skewed it ain’t funny. They don’t take into account game flow,penalties, suspension, previous weeks opponents, play calling, defense m, field position, yac, o line play, a blow out or not. They just go by some stupid stats. Looking at game tape it’s clear the running game is bad play calling/ o line play. A team as Uber talented as OSU should be able to impose their will on 95% of opponents. The argument of RPO is a computer generated response of something they heard or read at a press conference.
So, what happens if Haskins receives wise council and decides to stay for another year to become a more NFL ready QB as opposed to the one dimensional pass-only player he is currently? The truth is that his one dimension happens to be the one that pro teams covet most, and it would greatly enhance his growth and OSU's national championship potential for next year.
Judging from the general tone of the replies I'm seeing here, most of Buckeye Nation would seemingly be tickled pink to return to Meyer's comfort zone with yet another tailback who can sort of pass lining up behind center; but even Saban understands where the game is heading and has adjusted accordingly by the cold-blooded replacing of his JT Barrett with a player whose passing ability has revolutionized Bama's offense. Dabo's doing his version of the same dance at Clemson with Lawrence over Bryant.
It seems like Columbus has the only elite level D-1 school whose fans (and coach) are clamoring for the chance to go "Back To The Future" as soon as possible. To start Martell in any game for any reason other than injury to the starting QB would be an insult to Haskins and might reaffirm the reasons that elite passers have chosen to disregard scholarship offers from TOSU.
--Wakey, Wakey Y'all
All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions. -Adlai Stevenson, governor, US ambassador
This is a weak QB draft year. I think scouts will fall in love with the measurables and arm talent, and he will be a mid-late first round pick.
I think the NFL loves quarterbacks that are pro style, but they don't want a qb that has lead in feet and runs scared.
Tate ain’t starting the bowl game. Why in the world would he?Unless Haskins is not playing. The Tate is gonna improve the running game is insane. No team in America pros or college would start Tate over Haskins. The running game can be fixed by the coaches. Would the Patriots start A running threat over Tom Brady because they can’t figure out how to run the ball. What about the Saints do they bench drew brees so that tatum can jump start the offense. It’s absurd. Haskins is not Brees or Brady however in college he is one of the best QBs. He is an elite college player. People that want Tate to play because of the almighty RPO or read option have no clue about football. No coach in the land would sit Haskins for Tate. To go to Tate you would probably see 20+ QB runs. You would probably see a QB with 200 total yards a game that struggles to even get to red zone. Teams would load up the box. Why the infatuation with Tate.
I think he's saying Haskins would sit the bowl game on his own. At least that's how I took it.
Tate would start because Haskins would do what Josh Rosen did last year and sit out to prepare for the draft and protect himself. Not 100% guaranteed that's what Haskins would do but with his draft stock being as high as it is you've got to think he might at least consider it if the team is playing for anything less than a Natty.
Rose Bowl = Haskins might play
Outback Bowl = Tate
Do these guys even think that way though? Yeah, its logical to you and me, but if a player is considering sitting out for the bowl game because of the millions of reasons they can dream of, why should they care more for the Rose Bowl? Playoff maybe, but some of these players aren't thinking about it like some of the lifetime fans would.
I wish the real world would just stop hassling me...
wow you just compared an NFL offense to a college offense. specifically a college offense that has used running QBS for 5+ years now.
That offense was ineffective at best the last few years
Our offense was ineffective at best?....41.1 ppg #1 in B1G, 506 YPG, #1 in B1G, pass efficiency #1, rush offense #1
Interesting signature line
And yet the offense that won the National Championship was the one suited for a QB who could throw the ball down the field.
Note: Not saying Tate can't
Cardale rushed 17 times against Bama and 21 times against Oregon. The QB who is a threat to rush is important in Meyer's offense and generally important to NCAA success. Haskins is less of a rushing threat than any of us. Maybe he's protecting his career, maybe he's saving for it MI, maybe Meyer think Tate sucks and won't risk the injury. Whatever the reason, Haskins isn't tucking the ball and making a move toward the line, and every opponent knows it.
This is true and if you watched the NFL game last night between Pittsburgh and Carolina you saw Big Ben ( one of the least mobile QB's in the league ) pull it down and rush for two first downs.
Try to keep in mind some of those attempts are not real attempts, meaning not designed runs.
I would think that Jones versus Haskins 40 time would go to Haskins.
Why isn't he running? I have a several theories
1) He doesn't want to get hurt because a) NFL b) Tate is really good and Meyer will be more comfortable with him should he go down.
2) He is hurt and everyone on this site shitting on him look like a-holes.
3) He has seen over and over again that the NFL values a QB who can throw the ball and therefore he is refusing to run and treating this season like an NFL interview.
I admit, all those scenarios but 2 do not look good for him. I like Haskins he is a pleasure to watch on the field, I just hate seeing him get the blame for the running game when the real problem is:
I agree with what you're saying. Cardale wasn't going to bust out 100 yards against Bama, but they thought he might and changed the way they played enough to give us the game. No one is changing things up because they think Haskins is going to run. I think number 3 is the most likely scenario, but I like 1b the best.
Zackly.well said. Much more likely than a DH rush is a successful hook and ladder play. And as you said Everyone in attendance knows it
That's not what Clemson thinks they saw. (twice in those 5 years)
Tell me what it did against Wisconsin,Michigan, usc, Oklahoma rest of scrubs don’t matter
If Haskins tries to slide again he might end up with a broken leg!
If we think our tendencies are too hard to change with the current roster, then something needs to be done. I just hope we don’t get ourselves into a Cooper loop, where Germaine ran the passing offense and Jackson ran the running offense Coop used to think that forced opposing teams to have to work harder in defensive prep, but it really narrowed down the playbook for whoever was in.
Tate necessarily so.
The future will be very Martelling.
It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.
I read the headline pretty fast; might have thought it was the word you subbed for above. Would have made for an interesting sighting.
That's a whole different kind of party.
Why are u posting "MOD"
Those who stir the shit pot should have to lick the spoon.
I agree. He’s always haskins for trouble
I always slide well before the trouble hits.
You should jump to conclusions
He's only happy when it Dwaynes.
It simba bag.
pretty clear our playoff chances are circling the dwayne
"The future is bright at Ohio State." - Urban Meyer 1/1/15
And not likely to be strengthen with a tater-tot !
Such a tease
Shandy is not beer
Take a guess at what I'd like to see.
I had to run away high, so I wouldn't come home low...
You're not wrong.
Nothing cleanses the soul like a no call pass interference.
Fields of Dreams
I had to think about this one for a few seconds. Could not figure out why Tate Forcier would be needed by Michigan this year. That's how much I've tried to avoid thinking about this team for the past 3 weeks. Forgot about Tate.
Tater's gonna Tate
Urban would say my grandma is practicing hard, and obviously she wouldn't play. His words mean very little until players magically see the field due to someone's injury or ejection
She's gotten bigger! Heck, she was only 6' 210 back in my day. Still drivin' that Mack Truck tho
Leave one wolf alive....and the sheep are never safe
That flick...just about know line to line.
Which is astonishing since I doubt I've ever seen it sober.
"His words mean very little until players magically see the field due to someone's injury or ejection" OR sit out bowl game to get ready for draft
It would not hurt to have Tate get some playing time. Will it happen? We shall see.
It would make so much sense from so many angles to see Martell in, in certain situations. I could write a forum about it! But alas I don't think we'll see him this season unless Dwayne is sitting out a Bowl to go pro.
"The only good thing about it is winning the d*** thing" - Urban Meyer on The Game The War
Coach speak 101
Why is your post in quotes? Did UFM say that?
But did he actually mean it?
I believe 0% of what Urban says. He always drops lines like this and then we never see it happen.
They have been saying White has been improving and was practicing real well, and voila, he blows up. This is a good sign for some point in the future. Meyer clearly wants Tate to know we need him and to keep at it.
A funny, funny man.
It's not that the wind is blowin, its what the wind is blowin.
At Ohio State, the best quarterback is always the one on the bench (record setting years be damned)
I think there are only a few that believe Tate should start over Haskins at this point. However, I have been wanting to see Tate run a few series a game for some time now. I just think it changes the look, especially the way the run game has been struggling.
The first three games of the year, nobody seemed to complain when he did get a few series before garbage time.
But I wonder if Martell would ad lib as he did on the one play where he flipped the ball!
But I wonder if Martell would ad lib as he did on the one play where he flipped the ball!
Fair counterpoint. My guess is he learned his lesson, but who knows.
That is a good point, NY brother.
This is a lie, and a distraction from the more important issues everyone is talking about.
Only way it happens is if Haskins gets dinged up or they are blowing out Maryland. If Haskins leaves early and does not start the bowl game, unlikely, than maybe there.
He is the favorite to start next year but not sure you should bench your best offensive player. Haskins is the reason this team is 8-1. Well, as much as anyone can be responsible. The WRs and line have played well too (with pass blocking anyway).
i think the likliest scenarios for Tate playing Saturday is if Haskins gets blind-sided and knocked out (more likely with our OL) or is completely ineffective and just gets benched (less likely)
While I agree Ohio State has nothing to lose, not sure how much help he would give in two huge games. He hasn’t played for weeks. He didn’t play well the last time he played.
Tate will see mop up action in the next 3 games because we are CRUSHING the other teams.
Yep, name checks out.
Hells yes Ironballs. Tell these chicken littles what's up!
Montana Silver Bullet
Tate was the number 1 recruit at his position in his class, and there he sits on U's bench, week in and week out. Only a coach who has lost his way does that. Playing Haskins and Tate at the same time, wow, that doesn't make any sense, esp. when we can't run the ball and D's line up to crush the qb because they know he's going to throw it. Face it, the team never really jelled because of the issues with U in August. Haskins masked all the deficiencies. Then, the wheels came off at Purdue. This team is what they are and what they are is not very good by OSU and U's standards.
Unless Tate plays with Haskins, UM is going to punish the Bucks. U is to blind to do that so get ready for an old fashioned beat down.
Do we really think Haskins is ready for the NFL? I don’t. He’s like a statue back there. Doesn’t move around the pocket really well. Gets away from the fundamentals at times by doing stuff like throwing off his back foot
The first couple of games I thought he looked ready (even with the putrid level of competition in mind), but then the Penn State game came along. I think another year would go a long way for his development. The raw tools are there but he's got a ways to go. I think he's probably gone though in this relatively weak QB class.
Haskins has a dilemma. Does he go, possibly being considered not ready, or does he stay and see where the Offensive scheme STILL doesn’t change to better suit his abilities in 2019.
Meyer’s summer issues aside, once Burrow left, he knew the QB ability be had. It appears the staff didn’t nothing to adjust the passing game to his skills.
I could see the Staff re-recruiting Haskins to stay, only for him to stay and nothing changes and/or they scheme where both he and Martell play next year.
When in doubt, I say bet on yourself.
Meyer is a hell of a pitchman, he can sell sand at the beach!
Tom Brady doesn’t move well. Peyton Manning didn’t move well. Joe Montana didn’t move well. We can go back as far as you want and find highly successful NFL QBs who didn’t move well. It’s a fallacy that an NFL qb has to move well to be successful.
Yes, it's the scheming and the O line. We currently don't have one or both of those. So what we were doing worked great against crap teams because no one had any film on us. After a few games people got film and realized we were trying to run a zone read offense with a statue for a qb. That allowed them to match up more effectively. But if we're honest, the offense isn't really the problem with the team, is it?
They move well in the pocket which young QBs have to learn. Brady is ridiculously good at stepping into the right spots within the pocket depending on how the protections moves and breaks down.
We will turn loose the GOAT on offense! The diamond formation will be killer. We will feature the tight ends. Braxton will throw....etc.
Our people are everywhere, Esto Dignus.
my two thoughts on this subject:
1) Let us see what Tate can do. Haskins is a beast, but such a beast that will probably leave for the NFL after this season. Get Tate a little action in real games, not just mop up to see what we have next year and oh by the way it will put stress on the opposing D trying to figure out what package they should have in.
2) Let us see Haskins run some more. He has decent legs, he isn't going to outrun a lot of people but run enough to keep opposing D's off-balance. Maybe UFM is awaiting the Scum game to do that, maybe not. In this scenario, we need the threat of the RPO to be able to throw downfield and get the RB's free to do their thing.
Change is not always a bad idea.
"Tough times don't last, tough people do" - Gregory Peck
I'd certainly at least like to see him as some portion of the game plan. Not sure what situations best warrant him coming into the game, but he's shown some pretty nice flashes.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
The backup QB is always the most popular player on a team that is struggling offensively.
i want to see the tebow/haskins/tate jump pass in the red zone. coach! where'd it go?
I'd like to see Haskins actually keep the ball and run on the option to the empty side of the field that no team concerns themselves with!!!
Mark my words...Buckeyes opening drive will feature Tate Martell at QB and DeMario McCall at RB.
Looking at all of the posts here, I think we are confusing with mobile QB rather than a running QB. Haskins is not mobile at all that not to say he can't run but he doesn't get any respect from opponents just because of that. They load up the box within 7 yards and just rush him. Hard to throw because of mobility and hard to run because of the box being loaded. Tate loosened up the line just because he is a threat to run, not saying that he will but a threat.