Skull Session: Ohio State Dumps Cincinnati, Eddie George Thinks There's Dysfunction at Ohio State, and Isaiah Pryor's Tackling

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Silver Sniper's picture

And if he can achieve what he did with last year's team and then have this team dumping power-five teams on the road to start the season, folks should be terrified of what's coming next year.

Especially with all of Duke’s starting roster headed to the NBA after this year... 

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Buckloving's picture

Maybe we can have Holtmann talk to the football team

bobbyd

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Silver Sniper's picture

Anyone else pained to see coach Fick back once realizing that he was at the game for Cincinnati and not OSU :,(

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Cerainily not the #firefick crowd. Man obsioulsy can’t coach a lick.  /s

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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Kyson12's picture

I hope Jimmy is the Browns coach next year. Not a Browns fan at all, just a Buckeye fan. 

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TigerSweat's picture

What? Hell, I hope Jimmy stays there for 20 years. He is 0-3 against OSU.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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Kyson12's picture

 Tiger, I hear you but do you honestly think we will win this year? 

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I am Kirok's picture

I'm not Tiger, but I do. Harbaugh has everything to prove right now, the B1G runs through us right up until it doesn't. We are the team to beat. Period.

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Love this attitude.  Maybe, just maybe, OSU is in the head of a team Harbaugh has never beat.  Maybe they play their best game of the year in that one.  Getting tired of the soft whiny fans.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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BbBnD's picture

Hey, at least the attitude of the fans matches the team right now. Whiny might not accurately describe the team, but soft sure does. 

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NuttyBuckeye's picture

Hate to say it but even a broken clock is right twice a day.  This year may be the broken clock's one "right".  With that said, Hairball is still an ass.

What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!

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Gobucks2112's picture

Name UM's best win. Wisc?? They lost at home to BYU, they are a 6-3 team. PSU? 6-3 as well, McSorely was hurt too. The best team UM has played was ND, which to whom they lost to. UM has not face a potent offense yet this year. Again that is why their defense is thought to be so good. Has not been tested. Their offense is not that great, yes they can run the ball decently well, but their passing game is not overly exciting. If we are stout against the run and make Patterson try to throw to beat us I think we are just fine. If we can't stop the run, then I think things get interesting. It all comes down to the LB's. Do they show up this year? Do we try different guys who are more athletic than the current 3? If we stay the course scheme wise I think its gonna be a disappointing game for us. 

"You got barbecue back there? Hurt my feelings!"

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Very good post. 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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NuttyBuckeye's picture

Thank you for the reply Gobucks.  You state a big IF here.  IF our defense is stout against the run...  Unfortunately that has not happened much at all this year.  Scum's defense is TOUGH against the run and for that reason only, I am not feeling very confident this year.

Prove me wrong guys, PLEASE!

What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!

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Gobucks2112's picture

I agree, we have not been good against the run, I think its a scheme thing more or less and not putting our LB's in good run defense position. However, I said this last year when we played PSU. All the pundits were saying how PSU had a top 5 defense and that it would be hard to score, which we put up 39 points against them and a ton of yards, but what everyone forgot was PSU had played no high powered offenses up to that point in the season, so their numbers were clearly inflated. My point is, yes UM has a good defense, but the only good offense they played against they lost to, that being Notre Dame, so while I will give them credit, they have not truly been put to the test. Same with Wisconsin in 2014, 59-0. I just think a lot of people look at stats and rankings of those stats without looking deeper. OSU would have a top 10 defense if we play teams with the offensive capabilities of Rutgers week in and week out. Just keep that in mind when you hear UM having an amazing defense. 

"You got barbecue back there? Hurt my feelings!"

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

Man, eddies comments sting but they ring true. There is just something not quite 100 with this team. They better figure it out quick 

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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OSUnathen's picture

Something internally ain’t right and I have about 5 percent belief that they fix it enough to win out. I think we lose to both Michigan teams and end up barely ranked if at all. Because we are OSU we get a decent Bowl game but not optimistic we win that either. Sound like a downer but trying to be realistic. 

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TigerSweat's picture

This is a very real possibility. Urban Meyer has never lost more than one regular season game at OSU so he's getting the benefit of the doubt from me. I still believe that they'll figure it out, i only wish they would have done so earlier but there is still time to turn it around.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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iowabuckeyes's picture

Let’s not let facts get in the way.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

It certainly could go that way, but you never know. Resolve is a tricky thing, how many cats on this squad have it? That will be the question to answer.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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NuttyBuckeye's picture

Nathan, I hate to say it, but I agree with you.  There is something very wrong with this team.  The problems are so big that we won't fix them yet this year.  It's going to take an off season and quite possibly some firings to get this fixed.

On paper, we should be dominant and easily a top 4 team.  The reality - we are WAAAY off.

What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!

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fear_the_nut70's picture

What you mean to say is that Eddie is repeating what you and a lot of other players "believe."  Read it again, he is basically saying he doesn't know what the problem is and he is speculating.  You think it is more significant than it is because of who he is, but that doesn't make his speculation any more or less likely accurate.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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JMeadows's picture

I guess Eddie means well with his comments and they have to be tempered by the fact that nowadays he gets paid for talking and that can be hard to do for extended periods of time.  I'm just curious how what he's putting out there helps the Buckeyes this year.  For someone who has rightfully earned a place of honor in the annals, those comments should be post season in my opinion.  No one is getting fired right now and as unacceptable as missed tackles, missed assignments, dropped passes, missed blocks and fumbles are, how is any of that corrected by saying that there is a bad culture at OSU.  I guess I wish he would have limited the during-the-season words to something like- "this team hasn't yet learned what it means to be elite and hasn't even learned how to be suitably pissed when they're not playing at an elite level."  I agree they need to figure things out in a hurry and maybe the coaching is as bad as so many think it is, but this team is supposed to be better than it is and in spite of schemes or assignments or whatever, that's on the players.  

Never place a bet on anything that can talk.

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BuckNutChicago's picture

I agree with you, and I agree with Eddie.  After the Nebraska I said that there is a dysfunction and my hunch is that either the coaches don't like each other or the players don't like each other or maybe both scenarios.  I stand by that opinion, although I am a no-nothing fan.

However, I wish Eddie would have taken the route you suggested rather than the route he took.  Had he flipped his words to your quote:

"this team hasn't yet learned what it means to be elite and hasn't even learned how to be suitably pissed when they're not playing at an elite level."

it likely would have motivated the team.  But now there are a bunch of people in the Woody asking "WTF Eddie?"

Go Buckeyes!!!

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Silver Sniper's picture

Really good podcast where they go into detail around the frustrations being stated here. They have even stronger takes than most here. They pose the question, who else do we have sitting on the bench like White?

https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2018/11/6/18068568/ohio-state-football...

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Dillon G's picture

I think the defense and the offense can be diagnosed. The inability to run the ball is the scheme. The big plays are what happens when the linebackers can't tackle at the second level.

#walkaway

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TigerSweat's picture

Consistently poor LB play can and will paralyze an entire defense. They'll continue to struggle until they make personnel changes there.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

So I was in Mexico for a few days. Got home last night and catching up....I just read this....

“I see improvement,” Meyer said of the linebackers on Monday. “I see a group that was all four — three new starters. Tuf [Borland] was a returning guy, but Baron [Browning] playing and Malik [Harrison] full-time starter, and Pete Werner a first-time starter. So I’m seeing improvement, but we still have far too many missed tackles. We had six or seven tackles for losses that we missed. So that’s what I’ve seen.”
 

https://theozone.net/2018/11/urban-meyer-seeing-buckeye-linebackers/

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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ceejaygrey's picture

I don't think it's just missed tackles. They seem to get caught up in the wash a lot too.  Either they are falling for PA too often, shooting into wrong gaps too quickly, or the line isn't keeping them clean.  Seen a number of runs where they just weren't where they needed to be to make a play and the "missed" tackle would've taken a miracle to make.

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MAVBuck's picture

Remember when Pryor was recruited and there was talk he may move to LB. Talk about the only possible way a bad situation could've gotten worse.

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brutus0717's picture

Poor play is correct, but don't forget the defensive line in that regard. They're the ones leaving the LBs out to dry.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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NuttyBuckeye's picture

Brutus, I don't agree that the D-line is hanging the LBs out to dry.  (I upvoted you for your opinion).  I really think the problem is the LBs stepping up and getting caught up in the wash of the linemen.  Not sure if this is a scheme issue or the LBs making the wrong choice.  Seeing that it has happened all year long and there is no change in LB personnel, it makes me believe it's a scheme thing.  But everyone can see it is NOT WORKING.  Why can't we correct this?

What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!

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fear_the_nut70's picture

You need to let Meyer and the coaches know.  Walk right into the WHAC and lay it out for them.  So silly they pay all this money for coaches' salaries when some internet dude has it all figured out. 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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wyatt's picture

The position coaches can't coach these guys. Maybe the replacements for Fickel, Coombs, Vrabel, Warinner, and Ash hurt the program more than we thought. 

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Knarcisi's picture

The only chaos we need is us playing well.  

Chaos is mass/unexpected losses by the teams in front of us.  We have 4 weeks including conference championship games, with a lot of built in losses.  Let's even assume Alabama, Clemson, and ND all (3) win out, as they will be heavily favored in each of their games.  LSU is out, sorry.  2 losses and no conference championship for them.  Georgia should lose to Alabama (bad scenario there is if Georgia wins). Oklahoma and WVU play each other, maybe twice with a conference championship rematch..  We play Michigan, a loss for them with an assumed win-out by us. Washington St. is not good enough to win out.  Even if they do, their schedule/wins won't have anything better than (or as fresh as) a win over Michigan.

So we need what, maybe 1 or 2 losses other than what is already built in?  In 4 weeks?  It happens, every single year.  I'll call it unlikely, as with what we have seen in our performance would make it unlikely that we win out.  But chaos, no.  

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FunZone's picture

I'd say us playing well seems like chaos at this point.

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FunZone's picture

Sorry, in my morning haze I left off my "I agree with you" qualifier. For me, a complete performance from this team now would be unexpected instead of cathartic (The Game, 2015).

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Blackcoffee's picture

Yep exciting no idea what team will show up this year becoming better then Netflix drama.

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TigerSweat's picture

If they win out there most likely in. Georgia beating Alabama in the CCG would be very bad but outside of that (and depending on what ND does) a one loss conference champion Ohio State is going to the damn playoffs.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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BuckeyeInOrlando's picture

I think a 12-1 Big Ten conference champion with wins over Penn State, Michigan State and TTUN would be in over a 12-1 NON-conference champion Alabama... the B1G East gets respect from the committee with 4 teams in the top 20, next best would be the SEC West with 4 teams in the top 24. Including conference championship games, Ohio State would play 12 Power 5 opponents and 1 Non Power 5 FBS opponent... Alabama would play 10 Power 5 opponents, 2 Non Power 5 FBS opponents and 1 FCS opponent. I think Bama's weak schedule and lack of a conference championship would hurt them at this point. That said, I don't see Bama losing the SEC championship game to Georgia... and I don't think it'll even be close. It would be nice to see Bama drop one of the next 3 (2, really... see above mention of FCS opponent) to make the SEC championship an elimination game.

No worries here if the Bucks handle their business...

Step one: Beat Sparty!

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Buckeyebrowny919's picture

Hate to tell ya, but everything we have seen to this point shows how much the committee thinks of the SEC and Alabama. A one loss (could imagine it would be close) will be in over a BIG Champ OSU. Hate that I believe that, but it would happen.

"It's so easy to be average...to HELL WITH THAT" - Urban Meyer

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BuckeyeInOrlando's picture

We'll agree to disagree here... only time will tell, and none of it matters if the Buckeyes don't win out anyways.

+1 to offset the DV for stating your opinion.

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Buckeyebrowny919's picture

Much obliged...

"It's so easy to be average...to HELL WITH THAT" - Urban Meyer

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BigBuckFan25's picture

Totally agree with you. 1 loss Bama will be in over one loss Big Ten Champ OSU. In all of the games they've played this year, Bama has only trailed their opponent for a total of 1 min. OSU, only other hand, has trailed for 2 hours and 15 minutes of game time. Bama has dominated and controlled every team they've played against. OSU has not. OSU will need to win out and win big in every remaining game in order to jump Bama. This week is a very big test. Hope they can pull it off.

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fear_the_nut70's picture

It is amazing to me that people can't look at 4 years of data and draw conclusions from what we have seen so far.  People pretend like the committee does what it wants and moves the target, but here is the truth:

Every 1 loss conference champ has gotten in, every 2 loss team has been kept out.   Until he committee does something different, than this should be the measuring stick.

People need to stop obsessing over the playoffs anyway.  I agree with many to date this team has NOT looked like a playoff team.  Go out and get better this week, beat Sparty, and go from there. I hate one game at a time, but for now, that is where we are at.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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brutus0717's picture

Orlando, that's very well thought out, but I think you're crazy. If UGA beats Bama in the SEC Championship, that will fulfill the prophecy that ESPN and the CFP Committee have been pushing all along in that the SEC is the best conference ever created. Never mind that it's the same story it has been for a while; 2 top teams and everybody else. LSU is better this year, but not by a lot.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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CincyOSU's picture

Why would the committee have SEC bias? The SEC has gotten two teams in the CFP one time, and that's only because we lost TWO games by more than 15 points.

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fear_the_nut70's picture

And oh by the way, the two SEC teams won their semis last year and battled almost even in the final game.  It is fair to say that one should not look at this as the decision has to be made prior to the outcome of games, but let's be realistic, people do look at this.  I have heard more than 1 Buckeye fan claim that our selection over TCU/Baylor was vindicated by us winning it all. 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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NuttyBuckeye's picture

Hahahahahaaaaa!! Fat chance with that, Orlando!!  The committee EASILY takes a one loss NON-conference champ 'Bama over Ohio State.  We got PASTED by Purdue and 'Bama's lone loss would be to UGA.  (I also UV'ed you for your opinion.)

And for the third year in a row the committee would have lied about "conference championships matter".  Two years ago they took Ohio State over conference champ PSU and last year, Ohio State was left out to SEC conference championship loser 'Bama.  I wished the committee would stop lying about "championships matter" and tell us the TRUTH; they are selecting who they feel are the best four teams.

What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Actually, we don't know who Bama would lose to and how.  Auburn could beat them too.  What if Auburn blew them out?

You are committing fanboy error # 12, trying to make an argument with rank speculation (we don't know who the committee would put in under your scenario.  What we do know is what has happened to date).  See below.

Repeat after me: no one loss conference champ has been left out in 4 years.  If and when what you say happens, then you have a point.  There is no ESPN/SEC BAMA conspiracy to prop Nicky and his boys up.  What we will never know for sure is what would have happened if OSU beats Iowa last year. But had that happened and the committee picked Bama, then you might have something (or even better, Iowa routes us but we beak Oklahoma--this would be almost exactly the situation this year assuming OSU wins out).  Until then, you are just burping chicken.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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NuttyBuckeye's picture

Hahaha!!  Thank you for the "burping chicken" phrase!! 

Yes, I know, it's all speculation.  That is what makes the playoffs and the possible scenarios so much fun!

Another very real possibility is: Alabama goes unbeaten, loses to UGA in the SEC championship.  ND goes unbeaten.  TTUN wins out and has the one loss.  And now for the $64 question: does the committee select Bama or TTUN??

What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!

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fear_the_nut70's picture

My problem isn't with you speculating, that can be fun.  It is ignoring data from the first four years.  Hell, the Committee might do it one day, but until they do, seems relevant.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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BigBuckFan25's picture

Bama didn't even make the SEC championship game last year. Auburn beat Bama in the Iron Bowl the last week of the regular season and Auburn lost to Georgia in the SEC title game after beating Georgia in the regular season.

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Right, but you can't just throw that out there out of context.  Ohio State was a two loss team, which is totally different from your claim they would beat out a 1 loss Ohio State conference champ.  I am not saying you are 100% wrong, just that so far the committee has not done that and your comparison to last year is off the mark.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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BigBuckFan25's picture

If you read up the thread you'll see that NuttyBuckeye stated that Bama made the playoff as the loser of the SEC championship game.  I was stating the fact that Bama never even played in the SEC championship game last year so yeah I can throw that out there.  The point is you don't really know which criteria the committee is going to value from year to year.  After the first two years of the playoff no non power 5 champion was included in the playoff.  So based on your line of thinking someone could have said in 2016 that the committee won't exclude a power 5 champion because history shows they won't do that.  Well low and behold OSU loses the head to head to Penn St and doesn't even play in the  Big 10 championship game but makes the playoff over league champ Penn St.  Boom, blows that theory out of the water.  In 2014 a previously 3rd ranked TCU team was bypassed by OSU because it didn't have a championship game to win and OSU had a better strength of schedule. They said championship games mattered and strength of schedule mattered.  Last year at the time of the selection OSU had the 2nd best strength of schedule and a conference championship.  Bama had the 10th best strength of schedule and didn't play in a conference championship game.  Bama is in anyway.  Boom, strength of schedule and championship don't matter as much.  The selection is more about gut feel/eye test than metrics.  So no, I disagree, a two loss OSU is not totally different from my claim that Bama would beat out a 1 loss OSU conference champion and not off the mark from last year because if anything,the committee has shown the are not consistent with how they select the teams.  I think you're off the mark thinking you know how the committee will decide based on past history.

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LCT's picture

Eddie George doesn't know anything about football, he's never even coached.

Also, I almost went to a Halloween party as Jim Harbaugh. My wife said "Who will I be then?" Answer: "Sarah Harbaugh." Response: "We're not doing that." We were the couple in Jurassic Park instead & our son was a dinosaur.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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buckeyedude's picture

I wouldn't wear an "M" sweater or shirt for Halloween or even a joke. Thumbs up for not doing it. There's too many people up here in the 419 that wear those ugly things. 

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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denniscolumbus's picture

Bless you BD. Grew up during the 70’s and 80’s in Toledo outnumbered by ichigan fans. +1 to ya!

Class of 2001 - classless since then.

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NuttyBuckeye's picture

Dennis, I grew up around Cedar Point (Bellevue) and I could not believe the number of TTUN and ND fans in our little town.  Makes me sick!

What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!

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FalcotoyourMartel's picture

This is only acceptable if you wear a broken headset

Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory lasts forever. -Falco

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LCT's picture

That was part of the plan

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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BuckeyeInOrlando's picture

and you'd have to hold your hands like this the WHOLE time!

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LCT's picture

Woody ripoff glasses too

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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Ole Buckeye's picture

I can't criticize the Harbaugh costume, since I was Coach Tressel  for Halloween about 10 years ago. 

Living in TSUN, I was not very popular at the Halloween party.

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LCT's picture

You might as well have gone as the devil himself.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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Buckeyebrowny919's picture

I decided to embrace my sorrow that year. Went with fake tattoo sleeves and money stuff in my belt. Sometimes laughter is the best cure.

"It's so easy to be average...to HELL WITH THAT" - Urban Meyer

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

Eddie George doesn't know anything about football, he's never even coached.

Your comment is breathtaking in its presumption, LCT.

Lacks

Common

Thinking.

Go Bucks.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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fear_the_nut70's picture

LCT, you don't even have to attack the man.  He basically said he is speculating.  People on here want to conflate the fact that he was once an OSU great with some belief that his speculation somehow is better than anyone else's.  He basically admitted he doesn't know what is going on, but because he is theorizing what others believe, somehow this is gospel.  Welcome to internet discussions my friends--actual facts don't even really matter.  Your belief = solid reasoning. 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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MichiBuck12's picture

Eddie is right. Clearly there is something wrong. Perhaps it stems from the preseason mess that the team had to deal with. Seeing what we've seen over the course of the season, its hard to imagine there is no lingering affect from that. I've also heard rumblings that some guys aren't happy with their playing time and that position coaches are afraid for their jobs and are unwilling to risk putting younger and potentially more talented guys on the field. Ironically their unwillingness to play younger more talented guys could very well be what costs them their jobs. I'm looking at you Bill Davis.

I had a trick or treater last week that was dressed as Jim Harbaugh. I was really really close to not giving him candy. I did but I gave his little sister 2 pieces. I told my wife that good costumes get two pieces, bad costumes get one.

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LCT's picture

I'd point to the PT issue. The offseason was a mess but that stuff's been done for a long time. There's no way we're putting our best personnel on the field at every spot.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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MichiBuck12's picture

I would agree with that. With all the 4 and 5 star recruits there is simply no way that Tuf Borland and Pete Werner are the best we can do at linebacker. 

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kmp10's picture

The stats nerds, of which there are many around here, are too funny (one in particular used to love to cite his nerd stats to show the rest of us how good this defense actually is... I haven't seen him on here in three weeks). The eye test is often better than the statistic. Ohio State is 8-1, and they're bad, at least relative to the standard against which they measure themselves. There's a good article in today's Dispatch about Joe Bachie... he's the kind of player that Meyer almost always overlooks, but he's playing better than any linebacker on Meyer's current roster by a wide margin, and he has a chip on his shoulder because he's an Ohioan who grew up loving Ohio State. Eddie George is right... there's something wrong inside the walls of the WHAC, and there are lots of examples to cite as evidence... from the apathetic play every single week, to a captain disappearing like a fart in the wind, to Meyer's tepid presence, to Grinch's defiant 'no, stern NO' bullshit regarding Brendon White and his group's performance. 

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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LCT's picture

Not everything can be Numbers-ized. This is especially true of football. Even moreso college football.

Woody Hayes would have truly hated attempts at nerdifying the sport.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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kmp10's picture

Woody Hayes would have truly hated attempts at nerdifying the sport.

I don't think 'hate' fully covers it, LCT. Despise is hate with a twist of contempt. I'd go with Coach Hayes despising the stat nerds. 

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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TigerSweat's picture

I had a guy call me out for saying that the coaches know damn good and well that Werner isn't one of the best LB's on the team. It seemed to anger him.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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fear_the_nut70's picture

That guy is right here.  That is beyond an ignorant comment and you should be shamed and ridiculed every time you say it.  They aren't intentionally playing the second or third best guy.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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okiebuck's picture

Kmp; I'm curious, who's the captain that's disappeared like a fart in the wind?
 

The only hard day was yesterday

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fear_the_nut70's picture

You mean the guy that got hurt and had surgery, who probably couldn't have come back until sometime in December?  You wanna be butthurt, that is on you.  At least demonstrate you have a grasp on relatively well known info.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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Wargor's picture

I was just answering his question.  You might want to check your grasp on your hostility.  

As for well known information, sure, he couldn't have played, but leaving the university and the team in the middle of the season wasn't required.  His free choice and potentially the more lucrative one.  Who's to say how much his earning potential would have been hurt by rehabing in Columbus and spending Saturdays in the cold November air?  I can't find a Mel Kiper opinion on that, so perhaps that isn't well known info.  Still, while I wouldn't push either of my children to play before they were ready, quitting the team in the middle of the season isn't something we would seriously entertain unless we were having problems with an abusive coach.  Doubly so if they had been made captains.  

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I am Kirok's picture

This is sarcasm, right? I have no problem someone shutting down play on the field (after an injury or to avoid significant re-injury) but the fact that he quit and left the team entirely should have been a red flag to everyone. This wasn't some rando player this was a Captain of the team.

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Turfgrad's picture

Bingo, we have a winner!

"I think Alabama would beat Ohio State if they played next weekend!" Clay Travis Fox Sports Post Championship Show 1.12.2015.  Needs no explanation.

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fear_the_nut70's picture

I call bullshit on this.  There isn't one person who would tell Nick that he should stop recruiting high 4 and 5 star kids and get the 3 start Bachie types with a chip on their shoulder.  The reason for this is sound logic--with either good or bad coaching, you will always take the elite prospect/athlete.  With good coaching that elite recruit can become an elite player.  With bad coaching, that elite recruit is in the best position to possibly overachieve because of his athletic advantages. 

I have been around long enough to remember people claiming that Tressel relied too much on the Ohio kids at the expense of not getting enough elite athletes.  Now, this argument is being turned on its head.  No coach is going to hit 100% on all recruits, as the rankings aren't science, some kids have that fire in their belly while others don't, some will put in the work while others are entitled, etc.  But claiming that we should target more 3 start kids seems like flawed logic (you are likely referencing an anomaly anyway--read an article a few years ago that showed a strong correlation between recruiting rankings and NFL drafted players).

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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cdub4's picture

Exactly. How come Saban makes it work with 5 stars from out of state?

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Unfathomable...that we don’t have a LB in the bench that couldn’t make a bigger impact than 20. Realizing it isn’t “cool” to single these kids out, but c’mon. The Worst. It’s especially hard to watch when (usually) Chase, or other D lineman doesn’t seal the edge. 

Harbaugh costume....that’s what the yucky candy is for also. I’d cave and give the kid candy too. But it’d be like that peanut butter taffy crap, or like bit ‘o honey.  

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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MichiBuck12's picture

Yeah, Harbaugh and other UM related costumes got Three Musketeers, the good ones got snickers.

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LeftCoastBuckeye's picture

One of those snack bags of carrot nubs would have been even better.

My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.   - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)

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Buckabroad's picture

"...position coaches are afraid for their jobs and are unwilling to risk putting younger and potentially more talented guys on the field."

If this is true it is alarming. Our coaches get paid (a lot of) money to do precisely that: Make hard decisions for the benefit of the team.

"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."

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TXNut2488's picture

This seems ass-backwards at this point of the season. Clearly the "veterans" aren't getting it done so in all likelihood if they stick with the struggling vets then they won't have a job anyway.

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Hovenaut's picture

Eddie George speaks loudest, truest in November.

I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...

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DRsilver's picture

We are seeing the "Zach Smith Effect". His shenanigans and the resultant suspension of Urban allowed his team to be prepped by others. His leadership and team direction were left to others. They obviously broke into factions and now we see the results. Urban knows how to prepare a team and to build championship teams, that is proven by his record. His absence has resulted in players becoming loyal to position coaches and not as much to the team as a whole.

Early in the season w/o Urban the team became a pass-first team and the run game was not established. There was no balance in the team and now we are struggling to get it back. I only hope we have enough time for Urban to put it all back together.

Go Bucks!

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Donny T's picture

DRsilver, there's another way to look at this. The team seemed pretty prepped under Day. Whether that would have lasted is arguable, but the team has not performed up to par under Meyer. Secondly, I believe it was Meyer's reluctance to give up his beloved read option and adapt to a having a top flight passer on the team that set the team back. The coaches act like a team can't throw well and run well at the same time. If you insist on melding a passing game with a running scheme that doesn't fit, that's what you'll get. But why wasn't the team adopting a new scheme in the pre-season? The only answer can be Meyer and his refusal to match the scheme to the personnel. As for the defense, that too is on Meyer. He keeps underperforming coaches employed and let's them give time to underperforming players. I think after a time, all his rah-rah stuff in the locker room, all the mantras about 4-6, lose their effect when players watch people ahead of them screw up or not play up to potential. But basically I agree with Eddie, there is something wrong inside the team, and we'll probably hear about it after the bowl game, which at this point looks like late December.

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Silver Sniper's picture

Great post, Donny T. These have been my thoughts since game 4/5 and OSU hasn’t done anything to disprove it. Very well stated.

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libera's picture

When Ed Warriner left, he made a statement that he was "glad to get out...." I can't remember his exact words, but I was under the impression that maybe Urban puts on too much pressure and criticism of his staff behind the scenes. Pure speculation on my part but still I can't help wonder why for the first three games of the year we were all talking "bring on Bama" and now....? Well, Saturday's game now becomes the most important game of the season so far.

libera

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TigerSweat's picture

The first three games of the year were against really bad teams. The defense was just as bad then as it is now. Had we played Alabama in week 2 they would have buried us.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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aboynamedtracy's picture

That's true, but the expectation then was that the O would continue to hum along and the D would eventually become at least respectable. Instead, the D is still just as bad combined with a regression on offense. And we've played some bad teams after those first three games too, so it isn't entirely predicated on the schedule.

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keithbuckeyes's picture

I hope Pryor's 36.4% miss rate includes the times he takes the wrong angle and the runner goes by him without being touched or his "missed play" rate would be really ridiculous.

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MichiBuck12's picture

The article about silicon valley kinda makes me laugh. These tech bros live in an ideological echo chamber. And then when they discover something that the rest of us already knew, they act like its revolutionary and they're the ones that discovered it. 

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LCT's picture

Yep. Big Tech is dumb, and it's making us all dumber.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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blueblazer22's picture

Lambastes

Current

Techies

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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TigerSweat's picture

Damn right! They live in an echo chamber that they themselves helped create.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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NorCal Buckeye's picture

Just wait until the tech bro comes along and disrupts the echo chamber with a new app

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hetuck's picture

1. After decades of intrastate scheduling bitching, beating Cincinnati on their home court provides a frisson of satisfaction. 

2. Drinking moonshine at tailgates explains throwing metal trash cans at opposing teams. It would be entertaining to see Holbrook in Morgantown. 

Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

Vince Lombardi

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hetuck's picture

One more thing, if you think Prior's miss rate is bad, can you imagine Wint's?

Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

Vince Lombardi

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mtrotb's picture

He hasn't played in last 3 games.  He is now 3rd string and will not play the field again rest of the year.  He had his chance which is all any player can ask for, and didn't take advantage of it.

mtrotb

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blueblazer22's picture

Moonshine and pepperoni rolls. West Virginia must be something. I have only driven through, so I cannot say much, but moonshine at a tailgate sounds a bit harsh to me. I love me some pepperoni so on bread that cannot be a bad thing I don't imagine. 

I watched some of the basketball game, and it was fun for the most part. Wesson and Wesson did their thing, Andy the fellas looked like a team on both ends. Keep that up and things will be good. 

I don't see how all of the off-field stuff could not have played a role in how things have gone for the football team. That Purdue game seems to have taken a lot out of everyone-players, coaches and fans alike. This weekend can go a long way to curing the ills by laying the smack down on Sparty. 

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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SnGinWV's picture

moonshine around here is no joke...  once you realize you've had enough, it's too late.   

my wife makes the best pepperoni rolls …  she's from Summersville .. maybe that's why .. ;)

Life long fan of... The!

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nm_buck's picture

WVa pepperoni rolls are the best. I've had some amazing shine out there, and some nail polish remover. It all depends on who makes it. But there ain't no such thing as a bad pepperoni roll.

"The future is bright at Ohio State."  - Urban Meyer 1/1/15

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WezBuck28's picture

Pryor just isn't ready to play..numbers don't lie..

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TigerSweat's picture

Neither is #20 but that didn't stop them from rolling him out there to get humiliated over and over and over and over.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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McGrind's picture

Dude is the master of the Air Tackle...diving and coming up with nothing but air. He should be on special teams and spot duty on D. No way he is an every down LB outside the MAC.

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

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Ole Buckeye's picture

Let's put Pryor in on offense, at running back.

He is really good at avoiding contact!!

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BucksHave7's picture

Lets be clear.  Bucks were up by 9 pts at the half and never looked back!!!!

We Final 4!

BucksHave7

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iowabuckeyes's picture

The officiating in that game was pitiful. I think we had three fouls before we scored our first bucket. I’m not sure how good either team is as neither could hit the broad side of a barn. But I was encouraged by the defense. That and staying out of foul trouble will be the keys to winning this year. Micah Potter quitting and giving us length and rebounds off the bench certainly won’t help. Does anyone know why he bolted? It’s not as if he has a future in the NBA that sitting out a year and transferring to another school will miraculously uncover.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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Buckeyebrowny919's picture

Speaking of refs...there was AT LEAST 3 instances where Cincy knocked the ball out of bounds and it remained their ball. Don't get me started on that "common foul" that was a BLATANT flop.

"It's so easy to be average...to HELL WITH THAT" - Urban Meyer

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buckguyfan1's picture

For the first time this year for some reason my beat ttun juices are really starting to flow.  It's November....  Not this year, not in our House, f ttun!

edit: beat sparty

Simplify...

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Gratefulbuck's picture

Kevin nailed it by saying we’re not winning the next four games without looking like a different team anyway. Gold, right there. 

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iowabuckeyes's picture

Looking back, the most critical and defining play of this season may have been when Nick Bosa got hurt. The team played flat and listless after that but it wasn’t until he announced he wasn’t coming back that the wheels fell off. It sent a message that it’s every man for himself, that a team captain leaving campus and abandoning his brothers so he could rehab for the draft was more important than being a good teammate and showing moral support by being on the sideline and in unit meetings. I get not playing but why leave? He’d still have been on scholarship, had access to the training table, the nutrition and training staffs, the WHAC, the team manager who helped him with his daily stretching, Mickey Marotti, Larry Johnson. His announcement was on October 16; four days later, we got blown out by 29 by Purdue, and then despite a two-week break, we looked blah against Nebraska, a team we should’ve blown out in a game where our first-year starter at QB who’s now being touted as a possible first round draft choice slid without a defender within five yards of him. In boxing, that’s called taking a dive, aka throwing a fight for your own payout.

Nick Bosa leaving town—not his decision to not come back but his decision he no longer wanted to be a member of the team—sent the wrong message and sucked the air out of this team’s lungs. What’s wrong with this team? The answer comes from within: it has no heart. It’s lost its moral compass, winning on talent and not drive and determination. There may not be an i in team but there is one in quit and that’s the impression that’s gnawing at me.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Denzel Ward sitting for the Bowl game wasn’t the best message either. 

Mucho [staff] changes need to be on the horizon. 

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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BBQ_Fan's picture

Agreed, but didn't Ward at least sit on the sidelines?  That's a bit different than skipping town altogether.

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Oh it is. But still a prima donna move. 

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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j2gobucks's picture

There is no reason to have 7-8-9 captains.  none.  Captaincy is earned by leadership traits (or should be) and to be honest, outside of their play on the field has either Bosa come off as a captain-like?  Granted, we are not in the huddle, on the sidelines, or at every practice and meeting, but they just dont strike me as "leaders."  Dominant, physically gifted, high football IQ generational players?  Absolutely, and damn glad they came through tOSU.  but leaders?  Nah.  

Everything that happens-good and bad-should motivate you to be persistent. ~JT

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BucksHave7's picture

or 3 co-assistant HC's.   Seems like it just muddies accountability.

BucksHave7

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Turfgrad's picture

I couldn't agree more and was ridiculed for questioning Bosa's decision to leave totally.  That sucked for TEAM morale.

"I think Alabama would beat Ohio State if they played next weekend!" Clay Travis Fox Sports Post Championship Show 1.12.2015.  Needs no explanation.

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Defiance's picture

What’s wrong with this team? The answer comes from within: it has no heart. It’s lost its moral compass, winning on talent and not drive and determination. 

 It's tough to argue any of these points Iowa, unfortunately I think you may have the nail on the head.

The question now becomes can it be corrected in three weeks and if so, how?

IMHO, I think that unless there are some wholesale changes now, we may be heading into the off season with a whole different mindset.

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

The dysfunction with this team stands out like a sore thumb. It started with the suspension of Coach Meyer from Fall camp through game 3. The continuity that usually occurs at this time had to be interrupted. I also wonder if some members of the coaching staff were a bit miffed that Ryan Day got the nod as head coach during the suspension. Our defense is very undisciplined and does not seem to play as a unit. Losing Fickell and Coombs (and even Ash) has hurt more than we could have imagined. Putting the "best five linemen" on the field may also have hurt the continuity of our slobs. Sometimes the best unit turns out to be the best five who play together, not necessarily the most talented. This team does not seem to play with a lot of emotion. Since we can't seem to play up to standards with the team on the field, why not give some of the younger studs some playing time? It can't hurt at this point.

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moopdawg's picture

I'm along the same lines with what your thinking but I believe that you can trace the root of the problems earlier.  In my opinion, it starts with Meyer's handling of his coaching staff.  Lots of turnover, and bad decisions on whom he chooses to retain.  And similar to the Cooper days, I question if our best players with their "NFL state of mind" often prematurely play with one foot out the door.  Hard to inspire your teammates if that is the case.  

On the positive, it's been refreshing watching the OHio State basketball program get better and better.  Those kids play with heart every night, and as a fan, I can feel it.  Looking forward to watching those kids continue to grow as the season progresses.

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Earle's picture

That Lori Schmidt, she's got style.

Axe leukemia!
#Poppystrong

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iowabuckeyes's picture

They have pizza ovens in dorms?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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TurboNut's picture

Potential factor in OSU safety battle is missed tackles.
Here's how these three stack up in missed tackle rate:
White: 10.5%
Wade: 17.8%
Pryor: 36.4%

These stats made me throw up in my mouth! Pryor shouldn't even be near a football field! 

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iowabuckeyes's picture

So basically, if a team designed its offense to run directly at him every single play for four downs, they would have an 84 percent chance of him whiffing on one of those tackles, by my math.

It’s early and my brain isn’t fully functioning but can someone explain this math to me? A 36.4% miss rate basically says he’s whiffing on one out of every three attempts. I’ll be the first to admit I’m no mathematician but how does that jump to 84% for four plays? What am I missing?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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buckeyes2353's picture

Pr (missing at least one tackle in 4 attempts) = 1 - Pr (missing no tackles in 4 attempts)

Pr (missing no tackles in 4 attempts) = (1 - .364)^4 = .1636

Pr (missing at least one tackle in 4 attempts) = 1 - .1636 = .8364

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Kevin Harrish's picture

Thank you for checking my math. I'm pleased to see I can still do it.

Buckeyebrowny919's picture

"It's so easy to be average...to HELL WITH THAT" - Urban Meyer

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buckeyepastor's picture

I agree with Eddie George.  Yes, there are under-performing personnel who don’t seem to be coaching like their hair is on fire who need to be seriously evaluated and possibly let go.  I’m not talking about the lame self-evals shared earlier this year on 11W but real critiques.  But there is also a mindset and leadership issue.  

I think it goes back to August.  We all pretty much assumed that August was something that we just had to survive until Meyer got back in September, and when we started 3-0we thought that we had gotten through things unscathed.  But August was when Meyer would have been coaching up the resiliency, character, mental toughness, and leadership level of this team.  August is the one month out of the year when Meyer really has everyone dialed in and he is able to dive in deep, instead of having four days to “game plan” for the next opponent.  We lost that time.  We lost what Meyer does best, things that Day for sure had a blueprint for, but is not Urban Meyer.  

I have no idea who the leaders are on this team right now.  I know there are guys who are captains.  I know there are guys that I would expect are leaders by virtue of how long they have been in the program.   But I don’t know who is JT Barrett, or Billy Price, or Ryan Shazier, or Evan Spencer, or Devin Smith, or Elflein, or Lewis, or Hubbard or Bell is this year.  Not just in terms of elite performers on the field but guys who take it upon themselves to call out everyone else and raise them up.  

More than once in the last month, coaches have said that with this roster, they need to be sure to emphasize what’s going right alongside pointing out flaws.  Speaks to me of a team that is a bit soft mentally.  Can’t help thinking that processing August without the team’s chief motivator to assist them in framing it and responding in a healthy way is showing its effects now, in the “grind”stretch of the season, as it usually would.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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TigerSweat's picture

Yes. Fall camp is absolutely the most critical time for a football team. It wasn't a coincidence that the McMurphy report was released just in time to interfere with it for maximum impact. Ed and Jim orchestrated that very well. Lol

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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cledaybuck's picture

Your right, it wasn't a coincidence.  Fall camp usually comes shortly after Big Ten Media Days.

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Bigmarty's picture

Fall camp...you get a lot of the problems caused...the mental/emotional part of this team that's missing but also things many of us see as needing to be fixed...THAT was the time.  Thank you gutless Drake.  By the way how are those marriage counselling staff meetings going????

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O-H-I-Owe-U's picture

Preach, pastor. All of our issues go back to Urban's missing camp (idiot Drake). In addition to Urban not being present to set the tone and identify weaknesses, we were breaking in 3 new assistant coaches. The result, the team develops a shortsighted mindset--"hey, if we survive the first 3 games, we'll get urban back and everything will be fine." It was fools gold. Upon his return, I think Urban looked miserable because he knew there were a lot of flaws and he can't fake being content. But he was trying to respect his coaches and get it fixed slowly. The assistants didn't want to look weak and admit they were playing the wrong guys.

The Purdue loss was the best thing to happen because it empowered urban to force change.

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keith7456's picture

Since the football program is in shambles...we are a basketball school now.

I was very impressed with the basketball team last night. They played great D and made their FTs, the young and new guys played well. 

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fear_the_nut70's picture

This made me laugh.  We are 8-1 and one of about ten teams that has a realistic shot at the top 4, but you would never know it reading the comments here.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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cledaybuck's picture

And if he can achieve what he did with last year's team and then have this team dumping power-five teams on the road to start the season, folks should be terrified of what's coming next year.

While I agree with the overall point of this, Cincinnati is not a power five team.

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SnGinWV's picture

I love the passion the basketbucks play with.  Hopefully the football team plays with the same passion in E. Lansing 

Life long fan of... The!

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Arizona_Buckeye's picture

Can we all just calm the fuck down and tap the 'program is a dumpster fire' brakes a bit here?  We all had massive expectations of winning another championship this year and that is not panning out as we all had hoped.  You'd think we were 0-8 the way some people are freaking out this year!

Here's a thought that was echoed last night on B1G and Beyond... perhaps the fact that Ohio State loses half their team to the NFL year after year after year has finally caught up to them.  Perhaps the entire Zach/Courtney Smith debacle and the loss of Urban for an extended period of time added to the problem.

So, until we start tossing up 8-4, 9-3 seasons year after year - perhaps we should have some fucking faith in Urban Meyer - I think he has earned that right!

Go Buckeyes - Beat Sparty!

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

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milhouse4588's picture

The "losing half the team to the NFL" argument would work except for the fact that the teams we consider ourselves comparable to (Alabama, Clemson, UGA if they continue at this level) also have the same problem and don't seem to suffer these problems.

Which brings it back to coaching.

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

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Wargor's picture

Head coach removed from full impact for close to two months.  To think that wouldn't cost a team a few wins...

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Arizona_Buckeye's picture

UGA has been crap until recently and even after a great season, tend to follow it up with an 8-5 so the use of them as a yard stick here is invalid.  Clemson is a decent example since Dabo arrived, however, I'm not sure to what extent they are losing players to the NFL. Alabama is Alabama so yeah, we can use that stick to gauge our program as well.  I don't think anybody can say they are a better coach than Urban outside of Nick and Dabo.  With that said, you cannot deny that we have lost SOOOO many players over the last 4 plus years to the NFL and given that, it is really hard to keep that exceptional level of play game after game.  I think this is just one of those years!  Again, we are STILL 8-1, ranked in the Top 10, and have the ability to really make some statements over the next 3 weeks!  I am NOT throwing in the towel, especially against those shitheads up north!

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

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Meatchickeneater's picture

I certainly did not down vote you but I sure wanted to. But your opinion is yours! Saban has been at Alabama for a lot longer than Urban has been at tOSU. If you want to look back at his record Saban started like a house on fire and then hit a slump in around his 7th year. Then picked back up again and has been going strong since. My point is that we have not been recruiting at the level of Alabama for an extended period of time. Urban has been hitting home runs on the recruiting trail for about the past 3-4 years only. You have to be able to do it for 10+ years to be able to sustain the level of NFL commits leaving year after year. While we have 4 and 5 star players they have virtually no experience.

As far as the assistant coaches go Saban has struggled as much as Urban has. He may have pulled the trigger letting some go a little quicker that Coach Meyer but rest assured as long as we are tOSU and if we don't act like a bunch of spoiled fans and run Urban out of town will right this ship and continue to vie for championships each and every year. He makes commitments to his coaches for two years. Count on things changing at the end of the season for anyone that has survived the 2 year mark that has not produced.

You and I will NEVER know the damage the ZS crap has done to the psych of our coach. I just hope and pray that this is not his last year based on that. 

You never get a second chance to make the first impression

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irishfury's picture

Great post I hardly come around anymore.  To be honest I if I was Urban I'd pack my bags and give the fans and the University the big middle finger.  People forget there isn't going to be a Nick Saban walking through our doors if Urban leaves.  

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45has2's picture

27 is right. Meyer has lost this team. When a coach says one thing and does the complete opposite he breeds contempt and descension. This didn't just happen, remember Joey Bosa throwing Urb under the bus for putting one player above the team?

Censores irrumasti.

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yantubos's picture

The "win out and they're in" misses a glaring problem - the Purdue loss. Sure. we can knock Michigan out by beating them, but that assumes that there aren't other Conf Champions with 1 loss that's better than the drubbing we took at Purdue.

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fear_the_nut70's picture

This is correct.  But as we have learned before, lots happens in November.  Sitting around and obsessing about that which you can't control makes no sense.  Win the games, let the chips fall where they may.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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osufan2002's picture

Pryor was the last line of defense for the longest pass play and the longest run play in tOSU history.  That’s rough.

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