Urban Meyer Diagnosed Tackling As An Issue, So Ohio State Must Prove It's Solved

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MountainsAwait's picture

“Up until last week, we’ve been one of the best tackling teams in America,” Greg Schiano said last week. “We missed 20 tackles last week. And we haven’t missed 20 tackles since we’ve been here.”

...and I think that's where a lot of the missed tackles came from,” Jordan Fuller said on Tuesday. “I don't think it was anything about scheme or anything like that.

So they’re citing tackling as the only/main issue?  They’re acting like tackling and scheme are mutually exclusive.  I’d argue the blame is about 70% scheme/coaching and 30% tackling.

"Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wilderness is a necessity..." -John Muir

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OfficerRabbit's picture

Ugh, what a mess this season has turned into. I completely agree with you, its far more coaching and scheme than it is individual tackling... just goes to show the state of the team and coaches right now. The team has had glaring issues from game 1, yet all we've gotten is a bunch of coach-speak and no improvement... this gives me little hope for improvement in the Nebraska game.

 

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Ugh, what a mess this season has turned into

Only at OSU can the team be 7-1 and ranked in the Top 10, and fans are saying things like this. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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ChicagoBuckeye10's picture

Agreed. The coaches and players aren't going to share every minute detail with regards to how the team intends on improving. No matter how entitled the fans and media feel. Trust the coaching, trust the talent, and trust the team. Important stretch coming up, ride with this team or get off the bus.

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OfficerRabbit's picture

I get your point, I do. But an offseason long drama at QB, the ZS scandal, Urban's suspension, a team that has underperformed as a whole for most of the season, and coming off an ugly loss to an unranked opponent (again). Worse yet, nearly everyone saw the team regressing, and many predicted the Purdue loss. With the resume to date, do you really believe this is a top ten team? With the games played now, do they have a clear statement win (or two)? I'd say no... lets hope the bye week has treated them very well.

 

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ChicagoBuckeye10's picture

And your points are fair! To answer your question, no. 10 is slightly overrated (though, they're still giving credit for the TCU and Penn St. wins at that juncture of the season.  But isn't it nice to have a chance, at least?  Put in the worst hypothetical, imagine if they ranked OSU 20th today.  4-0 against Nebraska, MSU, Maryland, and TTUN wouldn't get them into the Top 4.  They're being given a chance. I don't know that they'll take advantage of it, and it's hard to believe they'll pull a 180 this far into the season. But there's a chance, Rabbit!

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OfficerRabbit's picture

I truly envy your optismism, upvote for you!

 

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Frimmel's picture

You're right, Navy. But not all criticism is a sign of a bad attitude or negativity or unrealistic expectations. That you're right is also how you end up with such spectacular failures as our trip to West Lafayette. The team is winning and successful so they must be doing it right. You have to step back occasionally and ask if you're really getting it right or if you're just getting away with doing it wrong. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

I’m not saying the team doesn’t have issues; they do, clearly. 

But there are about 100 teams in FBS that wished like hell they could switch places right now. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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Frimmel's picture

Is that where we're going to set the bar? The sort of season Rutgers would be ecstatic to ever get a look at with binoculars? 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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milhouse4588's picture

Citing records as a justification for OSU fans being spoiled is old, overused, and silly.

We aren't a middle of the pack team that's doing well. We are supposed to be one of the top 3 elite teams (Bama and Clemson the others) in the country. So, yes, it's understandable we are unhappy. Just because our record is good doesn't mean we have a good team. We got roasted by Purdue and have looked legitimately awful in many ways the last few weeks.

We are ranked in the Top 10 because we've had an easy schedule, we're Ohio State, and preseason rankings (which are insane to have anymore) still matter.

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

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HYI3RID's picture

A 7-1 Buckeye team that has only beat one good team and lost to an average team by 30. Would you call this a great year? Win out, beat ttun, and my mind will change. But to this point, the season has been a failure. It's not only tOSU btw. What do you think would happen if Bama lost to Missouri by 30 points? Missouri beat Purdue btw. 

Vires Et Honestas

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

You’re projecting not reflecting. Despite all the issues, the Buckeyes are 7-1. I stand by my comment - 120 teams would love to be thrown in the briar patch. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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Buck68's picture

Navy91... mebbe it could potentially depend 

...on who ranks the ranks of the rank....  ;-{)}

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brutus0717's picture

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. 20 missed tackles has little to do with scheme. I think you're suggesting that they are too far out of position, but a missed tackle is only going to be charted as such if the player had a legitimate shot at getting him to the ground. So what is each missed tackle? Another 2 yards, 6 yards, a first down? Missed tackles happen for sure (maybe 5-7 a game is a reasonable number), but add on another 13(!) to that and you're talking about a lot of free yards and first downs. 

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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Zimmy07's picture

“Up until last week, we’ve been one of the best tackling teams in America,”

Did he mean to say ‘up until this year’?

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NEBuckeye's picture

He should have said “In 2014, we were one of the best tackling teams in America and we’ve been going backward since then.”

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Seriously quit reading as soon as I hit that comment. Someone’s missing something. Must be me. Scheme? Shit. We can’t even recognize FUNDAMENTALS. 

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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CincyBuck's picture

Scheme? Shit. We can’t even recognize FUNDAMENTALS.

Agreed.  People keep using the word "scheme" as if it's some overarching thing that excuses our team's inability to do basic things.  While the "scheme" (i.e., personnel, formation, alignment, etc.) might have something to do with these issues, the lack of fundamentals jumps off the screen.

Wrap-up and make tackles.  Don't get blown-off the line.  Maintain gap responsibility.  Keep contain.  Fill from the inside.  Don't over pursue.  In short, do your job and let others to their jobs.

I'm not sure the true scheme matters that much.  If you can't do those other things, you can run any scheme you want.  You're still going to suck at defense. 

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dwcbuckeye's picture

It would be better if they just admitted the played like trash and vowed to get better. Too many excuses. Prove it in the field.
Don't get me wrong, we cannot complete for titles every year. It's ok. Don't have to prove anything to me. Just play hard. And save the excuses

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Nikkibucksfan's picture

What ever happened to Rugby style tackling? It was much more effective...

Nikki emmerson

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brutus0717's picture

This (^^^) and using the sideline as an extra defender. Not to mention there used to be this inside/out philosophy to the defense where the outermost defender didn't give up position and forced the guy back inside to the LB that was trailing the play. Lots of differences, and not for the better, I'm afraid.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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stantmann's picture

In the twiiter video above, Werner took a bad angle, that's why he missed the tackle. Pryor took a bad angle, and didn't have leverage. Fuller, not sure what he was doing, he should have started a pile, but he just stood there and watched.

The LB's don't shed blocks very well, so they should be playing off the line until they learn how. A change in starting LB's might be in order too.

I'm glad the coaches have been working on this, this week. It will stop the big plays from happening.

"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra

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GrapeApe's picture

Can we please just play a football game? A bye week after a loss is hell 

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Blue Eyed Buckeye's picture

It sure didn't look like Jordan Fuller, Shaun Wade and Tuf Borland were trying too hard when they were standing around watching Moore run through Pryor.  You can almost hear Fuller, Wade, and Boreland say "wow, that Wade sure is good.  Someone should do something about that"

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Buckfrombirth's picture

In just about every article since the start of the season, bad angles are a recurring issue and it's the same guys nearly every time. Love the Bucks, but I wonder how bad some of the back seven non-starters must be in this scheme. Urban's forehead has to be getting flatter after banging it into the same wall every week.

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

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Yoda888's picture

Fans hate being told everything's fine (when they are not) worse than losing.  This is partly because we're all armchair coaches and QBs.  part of being a fan.  Sometimes, consensus is built not based on objective observations but subjective conjectures.  part of being a fan.

But the power of observation and common sense makes for strong arguments.  

Someone earlier wrote something along the lines of admit and commit to the following (i) the last game was a sh*t show, (ii) yes, same problems have plagued the team all season long, and (iii) these are the 2-3 things that we are going to change to get better, and we have been working on them during this 2-week period.  How freakin' hard is this to do as a freakin' coach?

Yoda888

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DocD48's picture

Being the occasional optimist, I'm hoping they can turn it around. I lacked confidence in the '14 defense all the way through the uofm game. They came out and played championship style D the final 3 games. This defense is disjointed but they have the players. Hopefully Schiano and co can bring them together and restore some pride.

We train to fight and we fight to win.

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NorthBerg's picture

----- but they have the players.

Being an elite athlete does not automatically make one an elite football player. 

Too much time spent at the North Heidelberg rather than the classroom. SSD 68-72

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Hovenaut's picture

Enough talk.

Get me to Saturday.

I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...

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NOBLUE's picture

so it took 8 games to recognize that problem...there are a lot more than one problem on this team....i think its mainly ..leadership and coaching..but hey wtf do i know...

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McGrind's picture

Blocking and tackling...kinda important. A lot more ‘want to’ than ‘know how to’. 

Moore is terrific, but you hit him, wrap him up, and let Tuf separate the ball from his arm. 

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

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TkeBuck's picture

wow. that clip was horrible. i'd never mention names, but buckeye #32 was simply a spectator after all the missed tackles. sluggish would be an understatement as purdue will certainly use this as a recruiting tool against tOSU. schiano continues to be in denial that all these issues are anomalies this year rather than the norm. 

klusewski

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cledaybuck's picture

i'd never mention names, but buckeye #32 was simply a spectator after all the missed tackles.

Everyone knows who #32 is.  It is ok to say his name.

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Defiance's picture

Everyone knows who #32 is.  It is ok Tuf to say his name.

FTFY... 

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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Frimmel's picture

Everyone needs to go back and brush up on fundamentals occasionally. I know a couple of fabulous guitar players. They still regularly works on scales and such. I had a Jr. Golf instructor who would always say, "Pressure brings out all of your bad habits." That's all the "trying to do too much" is. Pressure of being behind bringing out bad habits. 

The other thing is that our talent is probably covering up those breakdowns in fundamentals against the lesser teams and we're using the step-up in competition or so-and-so is a great player as an excuse. 

And scheme absolutely plays an issue in this. Sound fundamentals in tackling is useless if you're out of position or have to think about where you need to go or have some other bad fundamental. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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Buck68's picture

[from Gerd's 30 Oct Ozone article on Urban's Notes].  Note Coaches' complete failure to respond to the root of the question!

+ Asked if they were able to determine the root of the defense’s problems. He said number one is missed tackles and number two was penalties that kept drives alive. They are also looking at scheme adjustments as well to make sure they have the right players in the right places.

Since early 2015 ref Urban's first 'narrative' choice, he's been looking for the "root" cause of our problems in the leaves of his Tree of Preferences....now blowing in the winds of erupting situations and uncertainties in recruiting..

+ They have also made adjustments for the running game that they feel good about. Now it’s executing and putting the right schemes on against Nebraska’s defense.

Good example of the head coach and staff once again starting in the middle somewhere...and with a conclusion "that they feel good about".

p.s. In small unit cohesion studies [way back to German infantry squad field exercises in the 1930s], one common observed behavior of motivated troops facing a field obstacle problem they didn't know how to solve, was to occupy themselves with 'group maintenance functions [c/f task functions] not because it helped solve the problem, but because they couldn't stand doing 'nothing'.

Subordinates [coaches & players] have been doing a lot of 'maintenance' ...since 2015, especially in the absence of 'task leadership' toward the mission.  And a few with a more insightful understanding of this miasma ...have 'suddenly, inexplicably'... left the program as we continue to fiddle with the puzzle pieces instead of upgrade the program framework.

This is nothing new in the endeavors of men.  Repeat: this is a basic, fundamental flaw of individuals and men in groups.  But, inasmuch as it continues, it is invariably internally fatal to 'group cohesion', to say nothing of the desires of our competitors.

Frankly, give me a quick death charging a machine gun, rather than the slow strangulation of avoidances & denials while my brothers suffer under the philosophy and situational awareness that stifles effective strategy & tactics.   But my feelings - and yours - are hardly the point here.

The man who does not first critically examine himself & his talk, is walking the plank off his own Ship of Fools. 

Shall we 'mention' Honesty & Integrity...  and just keep moving on... with our scheming?  

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scarletgray's picture

nothing wrong with  trying to do too much ...AS LONG AS YOU DO IT

JDK

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WezBuck28's picture

Look...hit them, wrap them up, and take them to the ground..I don't ever recall being taught to try and force someone to the ground by hitting them with my shoulder and walking away..

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Defiance's picture

“I think, as a defense, we're looking at the rest of the season as just a clean slate, just a four-game season,” Fuller said. “Really just taking it as that. We can't change the past, but we can definitely control our future.”

Absolutely hit the nail on the head.

November is a season all by itself. Forget 7-1, forget TCU, forget Happy Valley, forget West Lafayette (and Rondale Moore) and just finish strong!! The past is written, the future has yet to be penned.

Let's get to it Buckeyes!!

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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