I'd like to see a guy like Wyatt Davis get some reps.
There has to be a better combination at OL than what we've seen struggling now for many weeks. I don't like Jordan at C, Knox is a liability, and Prince can spiral out of control if a couple of things go wrong early.
Quit calling these one side of the field formations. Read option with Hankins?! Come on man it's a clown show Urban. Get 15-20 plays that work for Haskins and let the superstar work.
They also seem to call a lot of runs from tight formations.
The field is 51 yards wide and they're basically using about 30 in that type of formation. That brings virtually every defender into the box.
While Art Briles Baylor teams weren't at the top of college football in rushing the threat was there to keep the defense honest because their formations would use all 51 yards.
Let's assume we can get all this corrected (big assumption), what do we do on defense Kyle?
“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.” ~ Baba Dioum
I'd like to see a guy like Wyatt Davis get some reps.
PLEASE!!! He can't do any worse than any one of the five tackles we have starting on the O line.
I'd like to see Taylor take over at center, move Jordan back to guard and insert Davis.
Tailgate Fare Historical Archive
even the sad film studies are amazing learning experiences. bravo kyle, and thanks for breakng down that crap
Yeah I love these studies even when they highlight our ineptitudes...now I have sound rationale to show the wife for why I curse at the TV in front of my 4 y/o
The best part for me is that it highlights how multiple plays get derailed by just one guy's mistake - missed block, penalty, or just poor execution. It's why the coaches tell us the problem is not easy to fix, because it's not just one or two areas that need to be corrected.
Across the board, everyone needs to go from 90% dialed in to 100%.
“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt
This. Alot of good blocking in those clips above wasted.
Good analysis....maybe you should send this to the coaching staff...because whatever they've been watching, they either haven't been paying attention or they haven't learned sh*t from them.
I am baffled at the number of complete whiffs the line has committed this year as well as the seeming confusion that leads to 2-3 players blocking one guy leaving others barely touched or completely untouched by a blocker. Helmet on helmet is meant to be 1:1, not 3:1.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
well, sometimes 2:1 but I believe your point stands. The whiffs or misblocks have been very high this year.
Absolutely agree with Yoda here great analysis. But the article bears the point, the struggles aren't concept they are execution. As a former HS O-Linemen, (therefore I know all) that GIF of Knox just makes me want to puke. Watch him sit on the ground thinking I just got whooped. My O-Line coach would have eaten me alive on the sideline after that. You have a missed a block, failure to hold a block, a missed assignment, and that. Although Victor's "pardon me" block is equally as bad.
Which brings me to a larger point. What are the coaches doing during the game? How do you not sit a player for at least a series after that? How great are they in practice that you don't notice 1) they don't know what they are doing (missed assignments) 2) they are physically unable to beat another human 1 on 1. Apparently, these practices are people with buckeye capes flying around the field basking in their unquestioned superiority. They should sell tickets to that because then I would get to see an Ohio State O-linemen block someone.
"we ain't come to play school"
I still believe in the premise of the offense, because you have got to be able to run the ball.
But maybe some simplification is needed, because what's being practiced/studied/discussed/taught during the week just isn't translating on Saturdays...and I don't see any opportunity for improvement staying the current path.
The disconnect is baffling, given the level of talent/experience this program has.
As I observe from the armchair, of course.
After a loss, I try to use the "24 Hour Rule" where I don't make any comments until allowing the 24 hours to cool off. Well, it's been two days, and I still think we need two major changes.
1) Bill Davis needs to go. The LB's were almost constantly out of position or "caught up in the wash" as Herby said it all night long. For two years now, this position group has been average at best.
2) Coach Stud may need to be sent packing as well. The offensive line HAS NOT IMPROVED this season, period. I wander if we can persuade Coach Warinner away from TSUN. For the second week now, a weaker line has gotten the better of our O-line. Hell, they have OWNED them - pistol-whipping and bitch-slapping our O-line. But not being able to rush for over 100 yards against Minnesota and Purdue is a DAMN embarrassment - plain and simple.
This is Ohio State - a program that has much better talent and depth than almost any school in the nation. It's not that we don't have the talent at the LB positions and the O-line positions - we don't have the coaches.
What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!
I know this may not be popular, but I have 3 theories that may be in play:
1. The team isnt executing for all the reasons pointed about by Kyle, and the commentariat over the myriad of posts of how the team blew it.
2. I am surprised no one has considered that there is some point-shaving/side deals that some players may have made to make bank on a game like this. The lack of effort from a seemingly great week of practice to that game can't be just some sort of voodoo. Yes, we have had our share of struggles in that stadium, bit there was NO FIGHT in that dog that showed up on Primetime.
3. Our OL may just be too dumb and also lack the fiery leadership they have always had from someone on that line. Coaches can only coach so much... IBLEEDSCARTANDGRAY made a vlaid point before that Stud had two years where the OL performed a lot better than this year so when Urban was trying g to figure out the OL during the spring, it basically meant, "Houston, we have a problem of epic proportions and don't know who to start where because they aren't getting it like in years past".
"I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes
That 1st GIF tells the whole story. 8 guys in the box, and the defender off the left end doesn't even hesitate to dive on JK. If Haskins keeps he might be able to walk in the end zone. I know he isn't Braxton Miller - but he's got to be able to take advantage of that, and I'm not quite sure if he's being told not to or not.
I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..
Haskins walks in if he keeps, but that's not his game. Martell keeps that and scores, I think we test out the 2 QB system against Nebraska. Let Martell play inside the 15-20 and Haskins the rest of the field. We can stretch the field outside the red zone then use speed and deception inside. Plus a mobile QB running a read option makes the defense have to back off. They know Haskins won't burn their over agressiveness so why not load the box and just dive the RB every time.
"You got barbecue back there? Hurt my feelings!"
I know its not HIS game, but it is (or was) OUR game. I don't think anyone is asking Haskins to serve the full menu of read options, but there has to be juuuuuust enough to keep people honest. I still think he is too valuable with the throw game to take off the field inside the 20s. As fans, we need to pick our poison. QBgeddon happened this exact same way - all of a sudden, we need to put JT in when we are in the redzone. It worked, but the Cardale vs. Haskins isn't quite apples to apples. Last year, people couldn't clamor for JT to be benched enough because we need the vertical threat, but now we can't get over the lack of QB run game.
I have no answers and I'm thankful it's not my job to figure it out.
QBgeddon was a mess because JT and Cardale competing for the starting spot both tried to do too much, pressed too hard, made unusual bad decisions. What is being suggested is not a QBgeddon. What is being suggested is Martell in the red zone which is a decision that got our offensive production turned around in 2015. Yes, it ultimately led to a change at starter but that was because Cardale was not making the throws. No expectation of that same thing from Haskins.
"Woody would have wanted it that way"
I think its sad its come to this. Minnesota and Purdue didn't have dual threat quarterbacks and they had no problem running the ball. You shouldn't need a mobile quarterback to run the ball effectively. But the running game can't get worse so I would give Tate a chance in the redzone.
Even if he doesn't want to keep the ball, we could run play action there where Haskins rolls out and Farrell blocks for a second before breaking into the flat. The WR can run off the DBs/block and Farrell walks in. NFL teams do that all the time to hold that end without risking their franchise QBs.
Holy cow JS, right! Purdue ran a play where the TE delayed out of the back field. And Kirk said at the time, "that's what you do when LBs are over pursuing the run". How is it that isn't a play?
or Mack open on the slant.. CANT have the base run be RPO or zone read with a QB who has zero threat to run.
"To The House"
I hate the two QB system but I found myself wishing for some red zone Tate vs Perdue.
You know something is very wrong when you curse a 45 yard pass play that ends on the 15 yard line because you know you’re not getting into the end zone from there.
Peyton Manning would’ve scored on that first gig has he pulled. I’ve been saying it for weeks now. Dwayne is making mistakes too. It’s not just other guys. He’s been handing off to stacked boxes and pulling looks on RPOs when he have numbers advantage. I know this season was gonna be rocky with all the new guys but this is Ohio State. The offense HAS to set the tone. That also means Dwayne making a clear effort to try and improve his knowledge of the game.
My God I can’t get over that first GIF. I knew teams weren’t respecting his legs but how do you give in that situation?
"I've had smarter people around me all my life, but I haven't run into one yet that can outwork me. And if they can't outwork you, then smarts aren't going to do them much good." - Woody Hayes
He also missed on at least two sure touchdown passes and that’s not normal for him at all. He’s an amazing QB but the fact that he’s human and will have off-days is the reason we absolutely need the o-line to wake up and run block. I never agreed with the refrain that we’re not getting yards on the ground but “it’s ok” because we make up for it through the air.
Yep. Need to be able to blow people off the ball when he is having an off day. At the same time though teams with similar talent have been doing the same thing for a long time. Bama isn’t letting Vandy shut down their offense by taking away the run.
Agree....this was interesting, while at the same time, nauseating (no offense, Kyle, lol) . One thing seems for certain: With the change in scheme this year...that is going to an RPO concept with a QB who'd much rather pass, this O line is confused as hell and at times, may seem to be giving up.
Even Coach Studs, who is now everyone's favorite whipping boy, all but said last week (now that we've had to the time to see what he was talking about or to read between the lines)....the O line doesn't know what is going to happen from one play to the next. Don't forget, when Ryan Day and Chip Kelly tried this in Philadelphia, (see UCLA now) it was an absolute shit show when opposing D's figured it out. Well, opposing D's have figured out our offense with A gap blitzes on any down they feel like it and the results are now obvious. Kyle's piece said it well: Our O no longer has an identity. With that the case, is it any wonder why the O line is a complete confused, joke? For those of you clamoring for Ryan Day to be the "coach in waiting"....be careful what you wish for. On his watch, we've become a half-assed Big 12 team, but hey, not to despair. At least we are no longer a read option Offense with the QB running much, right?
Edit -- added below:
OSU is not the only "elite" team that has seen a scheme change this year. Bama went from an offense centered around Jalen Hurts to a pass happy Tua. Notre Dame benched their QB for a more "traditional" offense as well. What is it that these other programs have done....that we seem unable to do? This inquiring mind wants to know.....and pointing to weak competition the other teams have played is not an answer. Our schedule this year is a soft as it will be for the foreseeable future.
I was wondering about the same thing, namely, how RPOs are impacting the O-line play. What are interior linemen taught on those play calls? I would happily accept a couple of ineligible player down field penalties in exchange for the O-line firing off of the ball on RPO calls.
“That’s the way you respect a rivalry. Then you outwork them and then you kick that ass like it’s never been kicked before” - Urban F Meyer
Maybe one of you with a grasp of O-Line concepts can shed some light on this for me. It seems as though Ryan Day looked to install more RPO's in fall camp to give the offense some optionality; however, in the RPO scheme linemen are not typically firing off the ball to engage defenders as they would in the read-option, for fear of the QB throwing the ball and the linemen being caught too far downfield. Being that these linemen have been reared in a world of read-option and downhill running, isn't it unrealistic to assume they would easily be able to transition to a more reactionary posture which is demanded by an RPO scheme?
There is absolutely no difference in the way an OL executes an RPO vs another run. Getting 3 yds upfield is pretty uncommon right away, especially in the zone schemes OSU often runs. Before climbing to an LB, the OL usually combo blocks a down lineman before one climbs to the backer. There are no issues with 'firing off the ball' as this is not your junior high league where one guy can just push over the other if he wants.
Why do coaches call the same bad play 2 or 3 times in a row, but rarely call the same good play 2 or 3 times in a row? Thanks for the analysis! Awesome!
"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra
The difference between a “good play” and a “bad play” is more often than not about execution. In the above article you see two examples of the same play, one that could have been a huge run for Weber but the safety managed to grab him, and one where the universe collapsed on Dobbins because the blocking was half-assed.
Instead, the Buckeyes must get back to the basics and develop a consistent identity running the ball. While the tight zone play continues to be a staple, few other concepts show up consistently from week-to-week. Having a multitude of play-calls only matters if they can be executed properly, and right now that is an issue for the OSU front five.
So, the biggest most consistent problem is the execution of the front 5. Yes, there are other problems but this seems to be the main issue. If it's not scheme or play-calling...then it's players. That sucks as I think they're all solid guys who pass block well, but it looks like we need to see what this line can do with Jordan back at guard...Taylor or Myers at Center... and Pridgeon/Davis/Cupp/Bowen at LG.
ALSO... But DAY in the booth already. Have Wilson down on the field to help with the Oline/TEs.
You win with people.
And so forth...
9 Units Strong!
I think its time for Dwayne to start taking snaps under center on occasion. 3rd and 1 its an easy first down. Also allows us to run play action. Play-action with Dwayne would be too easy
Great breakdown of the breakdown, Kyle.
Great breakdown of the breakbeatdown, Kyle.
Great breakdown of the breakbeatdown, Kyle.
Any chance we see a film study on the defense? Great stuff Kyle
Welp, they did block the shit out of that nose tackle, anyway. Three vs one oughta get it done, huh?
Thing is 78 does that about 40% of the time, and it's gone on since Game 1. He doesn't know who to block. I actually feel bad for him because he's being asked to do something that he clearly can't do. After a certain point, it's not his fault. He's being hung out to dry by Stud.
Stud doesn't call the plays. He's being hung out to dry by Day and Wilson.
He (Knox) has repeatedly demonstrated that he doesn't know who to block. That's not on Day and Wilson. If it were, why do we have an OL coach? It's Stud's responsibility to put his best 5 out there, and to ensure that they know the playbook, not Day or Wilson. Now, perhaps Knox is one of the best 5, which is another story.
I think the RB could have produced a better result on that play as well. Not great probably, but better. Prince does block his guy out of the picture and the TE stays with his man. If the RB continues at full speed leveraging the outside block by Prince (aiming for the 5 on the back of his jersey), then he has a opportunity at least to try beat the LB 1:1 and use his speed towards the pylon. By virtually stopping and cutting back inside he has to deal with multiple defenders. Sometimes the answer isn't to try and make every run play a home run. First, just get as many positive yards as you can.
Did I actually see "Single Wing" in 2018? If it gets the run game ahead of schedule on first and second downs I'd accept a QB-sneak oriented approach...
But seriously, these film reviews are not only fantastic as is, but also much-needed medicine after a loss that helps restore a half-full outlook to at least this sometimes-informed fan.
I'm no expert but maybe it's time to bench some of these guys and give some newer guys a shot.
Fair, but he's wide open for a 3 if someone can just photoshop him a basketball.
LMAO.......thread winner comment.........^^^^^^^^^
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
Great breakdown, as always. The disappearance of the run game has been perplexing, nice to finally have some answers there. Hopefully the staff is looking at the exact same thing over the bye week and we'll see some improvement down the stretch.
This does not make me feel any better.
Nice work (seriously), Kyle.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Its sorta like this and the D is beyond being fixed.. Is what it is.. Shall see what takes place.. But no run game will happen with the current concept.
In that first GIF, releasing Farrell would lead to a wide open TD. Haskins would have a simple toss. Defenses do not play Haskins to pull the ball because they know he is not a run threat. I don't know the mechanics of play calling that would allow Farrell to know to release from his block, but that would certainly work if it were an option in the play.
I hope the coaches will call run plays even they don't work at first. Rhythm and reps are important in the run game, as this guy will tell you.
Boy, I got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals! - Butch Cassidy
I see a lot of missed blocks , wrong reads and just stupid playing.
JFM, we are hurting. The staff needs to grow some BALLS and play players who wants to and can block , read what the defense gives and quit playing stupid.
The repeated OL/TE penalties are drive killers. I counted at least 3 drives where the Bucks went from 3rd and short (3 yards or less) to 3rd and 10+ in the first half alone. That's just 3rd and short, not counting the other OL/TE penalties throughout. At some point it has to stop, or players need to be replaced in the lineup.
Watching Victor's efforts with blocking all season makes me want to puke. He needs Terry McLaurin to teach him what being a "TEAM" player is all about
I've been saying all season that Victor's inconsistent blocking is what holds him back. It's the reason he doesn't see as much playing time as Mack, McLaurin, or Hill. Though with Mack hurt, he needs to pick it up.
I saw that with Mack. Any word as to how badly he is hurt? It did not look good on TV.
Seems like we always run 1st down inside 5. Then our throws are always outside. Look at the opening in the hook zone on that 1st gif if we throw it over middle.
It's like they got a new toy, a legitimate passing QB, and worked so hard on pass blocking they have ignored run blocking.
In college football, especially teams that run offenses like OSU, the QB has to be a threat to run for teams to be successful. Haskins is no threat to run. He is obviously an outstanding passer. Teams are just loading the box. How many times have we seen an unblocked LB or Safety just run around our tackles and tackle the RB before they reach the line. If the QB was a threat to run, they would not do that on every play. I am not saying the QB has to run it as much as Barrett did, but the QB has to be a threat to run to keep the defenses honest. I would also like to see the running backs take handoffs while running toward the line instead the slow motion stationary handoffs we see most of the time.
I don't think he even needs to be a threat to run, but I think these RPO plays are more RRO for OSU. I mean shit, look at what Minny and Purdue did to us with non-mobile QBs. Just throw the slant behind the charging backer. I swear it's the passing play run 100% of the time against OSU. Why not just copy that?
It's not just that Haskins is not a threat to run which is leading to blitzes......he is no threat to scramble and avoid even the slowest LBs or DEs we are facing. Dwayne will learn pocket presence and how to move to evade rushers or buy time. But as of now, he is a complete statue and no threat to run for a first down and break a Defense's spirit. None. And....I would think, this is being noticed by NFL scouts too.
That "block" by Victor was absolutely pathetic. If he makes that block, that play has huge potential.
With teams stuffing the box, why can't we make them pay for it? That's what I keep wondering. Why don't we find a way to throw where the 8th or 9th guy would be on an RPO?
Our #1 problem on offense is our line play. Way too many missed blocks where a defender blows up a play and no push on run plays. This is Studerwa's fault.
Kyle's analysis shows it's not that clear.
Does Day even call straight run plays or is it all RPO’s. I’m not as versed on xx’s and oo’s as many others. But I have to believe big on big, the line can impose it will on smaller defensive lines. And then play action from that. I can’t believe none of that is in the play book.
I agree. Go back and look at Heuerman and Vannett vs. Alabama and Oregon. We used a TE as an H back to wham block defensive linemen. You can simulate the blocking advantage of an I formation this way vs. a 7 or 8 man box. We've already done it in the past with great success on called run plays in this offense. It's the power in 'power spread'.
We couldn't even get a 100 yards in rushing against the Gophers. Nebraska had three 100+ yard rushers against them the very next week. Says it all!
Is there a chance that someone on the offense is giving away the play call to the opposing defense (presumably accidentally)? It seems amazing to me how the run game has gotten worse every single week. Defenses seem suspiciously well prepared for every running play. I would think that backs like Weber and Dobbins would still be able to run for 5-10 yards one in a while. Or maybe the blocking is really that bad. I don't know.
Are you going to do one for the defense? I'd be real curious to know if there has been any modification to the game plan vs previous weeks.
It really doesn't appear as if the linebackers are being coached up and look confused in an RPO situation or even over pursuit in the run game.
I'd also be curious to know about the secondary. We continue to get beat one-on-one on the outside to say nothing of slants by the slot receiver.
It doesn't appear any changes have been made and if the players aren't getting it or are unable at this point in their careers to do what you are asking it would seem smart to change up what you do on defense.
I'm not sure which answer would be more comforting. We refuse to change game plans which is a bad coaching I would think or we have changed it up but the players still aren't executing.
Is it at all possible to get a film study article that looks at other teams playbooks with players with similar slillsets to see how we could be more effective? Just to see some ideas on what could work with the assets we have.
Thanks! Awesome article as always.
Kyle, thanks! I heard Stanley Jackson say the Bucks problem was that they were slide blocking. But, I wanted to ask you if you thought there was any merit to something I read about the O line struggles, which is that the size of the O linemen works against them effectively pulling, and resulting in more whiffs when they pull. Do you think there's anything to that?
Not Kyle, but the problems I'm seeing are in eye discipline or confusion in base blocking. You can see in the GIFs above, Prince does a great job pulling around the TE and picking up the DE. When you see the double (or triple) teams where both OL have their eyes on the DL they are both blocking then either they aren't being coached to keep their eyes up on double teams/combo blocks so one of them can work to the second level or they aren't aware they have that responsibility.
Wouldn't you expect YPC to be lower in the red zone? For one, any run inside the 5 yard line can't have a YPC greater than 5? Plus the number runs from inside the 2 yard line and just in general working with a shorter and thus more crowded area of the field.
Now, even with that, the success of our running plays inside the red zone seems abysmal. I just don't think YPC is the proper stat to look at.
I think we will get many of these issues fixed.
2014: Offense was a joke against VT; sack after sack; we got it fixed.
2015: Offense struggled (despite wealth of talent) until we got shown up at Michigan State; we got it fixed for last two games.
2017: Offense struggled against Oklahoma and Iowa, then we fixed it (even with JT limping every play).
This is the best pass game we have ever had in the history of OSU football. And we have two great running backs. I do not think it is going to take brain surgery to fix the running game. And the good news is we have some time to do it. The Purdue game is a great wake-up call. Rather now then against Michigan.
I hope we run the ball the next three games just for the sake of running it. I don't care if we lose three games. I just want to beat Michigan. And if we need to take a few steps back to do it, fine.
Greenbriar, my frustration exists on multiple levels. Yes this can be fixed. But why do we need to lose and lose badly to learn these lessons? I think many of us saw this coming. Penalties, missing efficiencies, big plays, silly mistakes, etc. I didn't think it would be Iowa bad. I actually thought OSU would win in OT. But great very good programs, teams, coaches, don't need a wake up call by losing to an unranked opponent by more than 4 scores. When was the last time Bama, Clemson, Auburn, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, or LSU were ranked in the top ten and lost to an unranked opponent by more than two scores? We've done it twice in two years.
This is the best pass game we have ever had in the history of OSU football
No offense. But you've been a sucker to statistics. This passing attack doesn't even come close to your description. No offense meant, but it's not even close.
1) Can film study be a daily article? Asking for a friend.
2) Can this be forwarded to firstname.lastname@example.org?
Pick up your feet, turn your corners square! And DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE!!!
I am Upset. Watching them play like that was rough. Coach Meyer, in my opinion is a good guy, but as a head coach he is Not the man for this job.
He does not develop NFL Players. Coaches around him do. At Florida he had Mullen as his OC When he Won Those Two National Championships, and whoever else on that STAFF.
In 2014 He Had Herman at OC, and a Great Staff. Coaches get Too Much Credit for their Success, when Those around them deserve just as Much. Not Everyone one is a Phil Jackson, Nick Saban, Bill Belichick, OR Gino Auriemma, Andy Reid.....
Does NOT matter what sport it is. There are great Coaches. And there’re coaches who can just, Talk the Talk.
This Team For the second Year in a row, got out mannned. It is NOT the talent Around them. It’s the coaching. The Head Coaching to be Exact. That 4th Down Call in the red Zone, Classic Meyer. Bad decision after Bed decision. A Panic of a Move, instead of taking the Points and switching momentum.
I’ll say it again. This Needs to be Day and Grinch’s Team. The Sooner OSU realizes that, sooner they climb back up. Meyer and Schiano are Not the men for this job. Maybe Great guys, but not great Coaches. The play, and Development of these Players says it All.
I can’t remember, which player Tweeted on Twitter, but it was a Former OSU Football Player. He tweeted last year, that Meyer is not great at Developing Football Players.
Great Coaches Do Both. Develop Men and Great Athletes. It’s time for this Team to Make a change. Only a matter of time before they realize that.
"Adding in a special 'package' for backup quarterback Tate Martell is likely not the answer, either, as it drastically diminishes the unit's ability to throw the ball."
I totally disagree...........Martell is quite capable of slinging the ol' pigskin........
I know they missed on the bomb where mclaurin was wide the ?#@! open but don't see why they didn't go back to them to force PU out of loading the box. The pass blocking was pretty good overall. Have to make them pay for overplaying the run.