Have you ever seen a fierce animal who you were sure wouldn't bite? Because I haven't.
I didn't like him as a head coach but damn the LBs have been down since he left.
Can we bring back Jim Heacock?! He's 70.. has a few good coaching years left, ha. And actually, Urban was an assistant of his when he coached Illinois State.
This is my answer, not only for the LB play, but for his influence on the defensive scheme. The DL was less aggressive when Fickell was here, but everyone seemed to know their assignments.
I figure L Johnson has to have them aggressive as he knows what the linebackers and safeties does.
And that is a problem, your DL should control the line not make blow up plays all the time. Your DL needs to take up 5-6 ol & TE with 3-4 guys. Especially when you have athletes in the back 7
Ed Warriner narrowly edges out Luke Fickell.
Think about that. Michigan’s Line was a hot mess. And now? Meanwhile, we can’t open a hole to run a prolific back through.
Warriners problem is he wanted to be more than what he was. He was not at OC and wasn’t just going to be an OL coach here. It took a fall for him to get that reality check.
Nothing wrong with wanting a promotion after a few years of stellar work, though.
Interesting thought experiment: If he was co-OC with Ryan Day instead of Tim Beck, how differently would we look at his tenure here?
Beyond that – Kevin Wilson has been a massive disappointment. Bill Davis and Greg Studrawa are only on the staff because of their relationships with Urban. Schiano needed Fickell as the co-DC.
The problems are clearly schematic. Defense walks up all three linebackers, doesn't give them time to adjust. Safeties are put out on islands against slot receivers. The d-line runs long-developing stunts while the coverage allows for quick passes. Offensively, the run game struggles are mystifying but even in the passing game, Haskins threw over 70 (!!) passes last night and I'd be shocked if more than 15 of them went more than 10 yards downfield in the air.
Fickell is the easy/obvious answer, Warriner is certainly up there, but Chris Ash's quarters defense was a no-nonsense approach that didn't get routinely gutted.
When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.
Question how much does Meyer let Wilson and Day coach?
Apparently a bit more this year, but it's clear that Day's primary focus is on coaching up Haskins while Wilson's influence is more on the overall scheme (part of why it's one-dimensional as hell) and his position unit (tight ends, which have been even worse than the linebackers)
I think i recall meyer being upset with warriner bc he "missed" on some recruits.
I’ll take his o-line coaching over missing on a few recruits. Strawd. isn’t even close to Warriner
Coombs. At the very least, he would provide some enthusiasm and emotion to the sideline. There’s zero leadership and very little emotion at any level on this team
Edit - Really the biggest issue is at head coach
Unfortunately I agree with this take. Do not know why but it feels like the imagination and flow of the offense has taken a big hit since his return. And his loyalty to coaches who are not working out is really hurting this team.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Other teams go out and hire competent assistant coaches.
Urban goes out and picks up people that have no spine and will bend to his will.
Apparently we are missing a current coaching staff.
Successful people do what they have to, whether they feel like it or not
Coombs.. Just look at the secondary.. SMH
Pigskins & Porkrinds
It's all gross. I would rather have a pop Warner team right now, at least they would show some toughness
Sheffield quietly had a great game tonight. Drew two offensive pass interference calls and shutdown any longball attempts against him. Looked good. Too bad the rest of them forgot to show.
The outside corners did fine. But Minnesota figured out we can't cover a slot so Purdue followed suit with rondale last night.
Great point, the outside corners have been fine this year. The safeties and linebackers are the real problem, problem being an understatement.
"Because we couldn't go for three."
Linebacker and offensive line is a tie. Both positions are underachieving, and they have also been the two positions on the team that historically have the highest rate of major recruits that did not pan out.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Safeties have been bad too.
I hate the offseason.
Because Tress never lost to Purdue. And he never got blown out by elite competition. And his recruiting definitely wasn't headed for a cliff. And his offensive line was elite.
Urbans become Tressel. Lets be real here.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
Yup. Outdated on offense and unwilling to change. Unwilling to fire liability coaches.
you forgot your italics, without them people think you are being serious.
"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra
Grinch is the one who stole this year's season. So it's gotta be Combs for me. Davis has his own enormous problems but I couldn't think of a pun for him so I'm sticking with Grinch.
Well, he is a mean one.
"Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed, is more important than any other one thing." - Abraham Lincoln
Ash. His scheme is just what the young guys on defense need.
They're all chickens. The rooster has sex with all of them.
I agree with this. I think things are too complicated right now. They are trying to do too much and are inexperienced.
And the tackling technique.
Coombs, he was emotional and it spilled over to the players.
Ash gets my vote as well.
Fields of Dreams
I almost want to say Schiano coaching the safties. Honestly I haven't been impressed at all with Grinch.
In this order - Fickell, Herman, Coombs.
Who I miss most? James Patrick Tressel. Yes, there were a couple of blowouts, but never at the alarming rate that we see now. And the bigger difference to me is the type of player that plays for Ohio State now relative to then. Yeah, we are an NFL factory now with a lot of one and done 1st rounders, but where are the tough, gritty leaders that LOVE Ohio State and play their hearts out every game? I don't see many of those guys on the team right now, aside from KJ Hill, T-Mac and maybe Dixon and Campbell. Ohio State football doesnt really feel like Ohio State football anymore.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
He had a few big game turds in his career too, Purdue being one along with UF, LSU, USCx2, Texasx2. I’m pissed tonight but not willing to #fireeveryone yet.
When I was 6 I was thinking about this rivalry. This one is seared on your soul, It's ingrained through every part of your body. -Urban Meyer
Yes but only USC and UF were utter ass kickings. Tressel rarely lose games by 4 TDs and almost never to awful teams like Purdue or Iowa (the 2004 Iowa game was an anomaly in that sense).
That's funny when we played in meaning full games other than Miami with another coach's players more or less. Other than Michigan his record was poor. His backward style nearly lost the Arkansas game taking his foot off the gas. The coaching staff and players were not very good here when he left. I loved his saying play Ohio teams and keep the money in state lol. Play Ohio teams and boost our record should of been his cry. Glad he is gone Ohio talent is not what it once was and that was his bread and butter.
I don't miss Tressel ball at all. Every game felt like a miracle win. Very few convincing wins. Most teams were still in the game late. He was a great game manager though. Great at using field position. There was a lot to like about Tressel but OSU was never this good after the future michigan state coach left. Tressel's defenses simply got worse and worse after his Naty.
And then in his final year he has what was probably Ohio State's best offensive line ever and they couldn't make a simple pass completion. It was awful.
Fickell, Ash and Warriner.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth~Mike Tyson
The problems the Buckeyes have been experiencing are, to a large extent, related to the annual turnover in the coaching staff, simultaneous with the loss of experienced players, at key positions, early to the NFL.
New coaches, new schemes, new approaches -- with multiple inexperienced players at key positions -- increases the likelihood that there will be problems. That is one foundation of the Buckeye's difficulties this year.
The success that the Buckeyes have had in having coaches move on to other, "better," positions, coupled with multiple players entering the NFL draft early, have other, negative consequences.
"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it." - Woody Hayes
Have you seen Alabama’s staff turnover the last couple years? Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the slightest for them
To be honest, Alabama has also had much better recruiting. Yes OSU has had great recruiting but more in the skilled positions. Alabama's depth on both the offensive and defensive lines is incredible. And I also don't think they have lost as much talent to the NFL as Ohio State has either. Especially on defense their guys tend to stick around a bit longer.
Not true. The margin between OSU and Alabam in recruiting is very thin. 2018 OSU had an average rating of 94.29 Alabama 91.94, 2017 OSU 94.59 Alabama 93.76, 2016OSU 91.56 Alabama 92.54 The issue is coaching and team chemistry. The O-Line can't run block, the team as a whole is soft. The back 7 is just awful. There are coaches on this staff that should be encouraged to "explore other opportunities" in the off season.
You WIN with people.
I disagree Bukirob, they should not be encouraged to look for a new job in the off-season. They should be fired right here right now to send a message to the players and the rest of the staff that this will no longer be tolerated.
You make an interesting point. A comparison of Ohio State to Alabama must take into consideration a rather pronounced difference in the cultures of the two programs.
I think, at Ohio State, it is coaching/player turnover, coupled with new schemes and new approaches, especially on defense, but also on offense. One could argue that some of our coaching replacements, when there is coaching turnover, have not been particularly effective. There are multiple issues going on right now at Ohio State. For some reason, IMO, the turnover, coaching turnover coupled with players leaving early for the NFL, seems to be having a particular effect on the Buckeyes.
Alabama is a unique case . . . Coach Saban runs a very tight ship and he does it with a level of efficiency and effectiveness that no one else in the country, who even approaches their talent level, seems to be able to consistently match.
Saban puts ability above friendship.
We replaced top shelf coaches in Fickell and Warriner with third tier coaches. Studrawa surprises me. His resume is sort of Okay, but really fishy that he went from OC at LSU to O-line coach at Maryland- a definite step down the ladder. They both seem like clear bad hires. I don't know how Meyer hires, but I think their should have been signs that that current guys weren't a good fit. Hopefully there were some personality tests and group interviews and some discussion amongst the coaching staff about the hires. Ah who am I kidding. Meyer believed the hype about himself and thought nothing could overcome his coaching superpowers, especially not his best man and son-in-law.
I think one of the biggest problems is we have too many HCs on the team. Lots of alphas stuck in their own ways and philosophies.
For as many studs as we've had on the defensive side of the ball over the years, we've never been consistently a top D. Maybe we need to run the same schemes as Bama. They're #1 in ever defensive category since Saban took over and you can't tell me we haven't been getting similar talent.
Sometimes coaching isn't enough though and you just don't have the players, or they haven't yet peaked in their development which we're seeing this year. 5*s all over the D yet they can't ever seem to figure things out. Make the right reads, tackle, etc.
It’s coaching. You can convince me that 1-2 guys aren’t “getting it”, but 8 guys out of position, missing tackles and committing penalties is on the coaches.
Well yeah, but they also need to have the ability to read and recognize stuff themselves. Coaches can only do so much outside of benching them.
But it is up to the coaches to be teaching them how to make the roads and then what decisions to make. The players do not come into the program knowing how to do that.
Yeah but a coach can't be on the field standing behind the LBs making sure they're filling the right hole, reading the right play, shedding blocks or setting the OL up thinking you're doing one thing then do another. There comes a time when you gotta go out and do it. It's football, it's not rocket science... the player IQ on this team this year isn't exactly the highest we've seen.
I have a general rule that I apply to teaching. If one or two people don't get it, that is one them. If 85% aren't getting it, that's on me.
Ed Warriner by a long shot. When these two backs can't average 3 yards a carry then its it's obvious.
On defense I would fire everyone but Larry Johnson. On offense I blame Greg Studurwa. O line is a terrible
I would give Taver a longer try because I highly doubt he's the one coming up with this god-awful scheme that puts so much pressure on our corners, but yeah, I think almost the entire defensive staff has to go...
I hope Greg Schiano gets the Rutgers job and we hire Chris Ash and Marcus Freeman. Bill Davis goes pro and Greg Studurwa goes to BGSU. I love Hartline, Alford, LJ, and Ryan Day.
And Coombs hates living in Tennessee so he comes back. If anything we miss that man's juice on the sideline. Team doesn't really play with much hype or swag.
Coombs was always undervalued just as your post implies. He was a really good coach. Playing defensive back and safety has a lot to do with attitude and quick decision making.
Or...urban could grow a pair and just fire them all. In what way has Schiano, Davis, or Stud proved they deserve another year?
Fire them and bring in hungry, young assistants. No more of these washed up friends of Urban. Look at what Hartline has done in just a few months.
One can dream...and I’m w ya. Just don’t see it happening.
"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody
As far as Alford, give me Drayton anyday.
Alford has been good every year except this year, which leads me to believe we have too many backs competing for carries. Our backs can’t get into a zone when they play one series then take a break. I wish we would use one primarily in the first half and then start bringing in the next one when the legs of the defense are tired.
To be honest we are in for a long season. This hasn't been corrected and it's not going to get much better this far along in the season. Combs is a big loss but the talent is very young at DB's. Davis is the real problem lb has been poor since he arrived and that hurts the db's too. I think there are problems with the entire staff and see a shake up at seasons end with Urban to retire and either Schiano or Day as the next coach. I been saying for weeks Urban is not well with head aches.
The coach i miss the most is Urban. He just doesnt seem to be there. I think this Zach thing and Earl passing has had an effect, plus these headaches.
Worst, Davis. Next, whoever has been unable to put a line together. Don't over-rate Day too much. The one dimensional offense we are watching is what he and Wilson are calling. Day has brought 2 new pro style passers into the fold, Baldwin, and the commit (for now) from Nevada. He has been converting Urban from the RPO style players he loves to this style of play. My fear going into late season was how will we as a pure passing team compete in bad weather when we can't run the ball? We just found out. We really miss Coombs, and knew there would be a step down from a guy who built first round picks year after year from his group. Wilson was supposed to be a tight end guru. Where are they? We know where Berry is, just follow the flags. The blocking from that group is weak, and they really aren't much of a receiving threat. So what has Wilson done? The coach we are missing most right now is Urban Meyer. Where has the leader gone? Is it health? Let's hope not for his sake. Being left to twist in the wind for 6 weeks while Ohio State chased down the Zach and Courtney Smith saga surely didn't help his morale and frankly was no way to treat a coach who has built our program to the level he has. This is not likely to be our last defeat this season. We play a strong defense in East Lansing and a very strong defense and a hungry team at the end of November. No one is going to be sending us any sympathy cards, especially the staff at ESPN.
I miss having one coordinator for offense and defense. Like kareemabduljacobb said above, too many philosophies at the same time. A couple of years back Schiano talked about having to keep things simple since Ohio State recruited great players that would leave for the NFL. You couldn't make it complex since you would always be dealing with a significant number of new starters each year. That was the year Oklahoma called us a basic defense and we completely shut them down. This year, Grinch has made comments about his scheme needing most of the year to click with the players and being really good in year 2. On the surface that seems like there are two, diametrically opposed philosophies from our co-coordinators. Having one guy that sets the direction and makes sure all the position coaches are aligned is critical.
Ash is the one we miss the most and the others are not even close.
Here is why: Warriner is no better then Stud. The ability to attack and out number our offensive line with multi disguised run blitzes from any team is not and I repeat not on the offensive line or Stud. When you bring in WR's to pick up blitzers as Haskins did tonight when he saw that Purdid was no longer trying to disguise their defense the problem is not the O-line, it is scheme. The Statue don't run so key on the one runningback on your blitz and jailbreak to the QB. It really is the best of both worlds for the defense.
Coombs may have had better in coach athlete relations and may be a better coach then Johnson but he like Tavar only supplement the DC.
Shiano and Grinch have stuck to the same scheme throughout this season and folks have beat it to death both in game and on this site. Pressure was supposed to come from the D-line and this has not been the case especially the last 3 games. Our Linebackers are just doing as coached (in this scheme) it is clear that Borland and Werner should not be starting as they continue to be just running into offensive lineman (the wash) and never making any plays. I have bitched about this from the first game and Herbstriet finally pointed it out tonight (validation). Has anyone considered they may be doing what they are told to do both Davis and the linebackers? Sure as hell looked to be confirmed to me tonight.
OSU's offense in the first 3 games coached by Day looked like world beaters because the opponents didn't believe we would have a statue running our offense. They thought Haskins could and would run. Penn State exposed Haskins as a non threat to run and even exposed him as a guy who didn't want contact. The O-line benifited from the ruse Haskins was a dual threat in games 1 through 3 and blew open holes because the defense that we played had a second or two delay to see if the QB was going to run. (Light should turn on now, this second or two is why we had great success running the ball in games 1 and 2 and went down hill after this).
Schiano a former head coach and Grinch (whoever the fuck he is) are to blame for this defense. Schiano's scheme and unwillingness to change and Grinch (whoever the fuck he is) agreeing to continue this defensive scheme of over aggression and Grinch's coaching of the safeties has spelled doom for a season of such promise.
Hey Cancer! This ass kicking is brought to you by the Guernsey county mafia. Give it Hell 84!
I agree with most of what you said. However I don't think any of the defenses ever really considered Haskins to be a duel threat QB. Nor do I think that has anything to do with the poor running game. The real problem is that someone is always missing a block. The tight-ends in particular seem like they almost never get pads on anyone.
Fickell / Vrabel / anyone to coach the LB's. Leaving the safeties to play run support and on a island has been devastating.
i'd say Ash is the most missed. I'm not sure Schiano ever believed in Quarters and as soon as he showed up started to try to add more schemes. With the kind of turnover we've had in the secondary the last two years they really need to go back to a base defense so that they can make decisions quickly.
I also think the D-line needs to stop going for the knock out blow and instead do a better job keeping offensive linemen off of the linebackers.
Johnson is in a catch 22. The linebackers and db’s are so bad he has to get pressure. He is the only defensive coach I want retained. There is no improvement from any other defensive unit. I sure as heck hope Grinch is not the defensive coordinator in waiting.
Could be a huge turnover of coaches at the end of this year; many have fulfilled their two year commitments. My choice is Luke. Do we even have linebackers? Not sure but this could be the worse developed set of linebackers since 1950.
Can't even say I'll be sad if it's a huge turnover.
Let Urban take his comfy analyst job at ESPN, promote Day, clear fucking house...but of course that won't happen and we'll be stuck watching Urban run the QB read 90 times per game next year with Tate.
It's a good thing you aren't in charge of anything...enjoy going 8-4 or 9-3 under Urban's successor
I am here for the same reason you are.
Combs for the reason others have mentioned, this team is lifeless. Watching them get manhandled by Purdue and it looked like nobody cared.
Meyer needed to take the opportunity last night to get the discipline under control. Hamilton should have been sent to the locker room after roughing the punter. That was one of the worst football plays I have ever seen
Agreed. Funny part is there was an earlier kick where he came from the other side and attempted to block it and whiffed. And I thought to myself, what is this kid doing? Clearly Landers isn’t 100% or we’d see much more of him and less of 53.
Angry Urban, who was out for blood every game, now it seems as if we have CEO Urban
Plenty of faults to go around. I'd say it's a pick-em.
Fred Pagac still coaching linebackers?
I’m so frustrated with everything. Absolutely ridiculous
Fickell and a gentleman named JT Barrett
Vrabel couldve signed any DB coach in the NFL but he chose Coombs. Part of me thinks he did it to get back at Urban. Its working.
Urban Meyer is MIA. No OL coaching. No defensive backfield coaching. No linebacker coaching. No OC coaching - no run scheme - OL can't pass block and run block - give me a break! No esprit de corps. No mental toughness. No swagger. What a complete mess with Urban Meyer front and center!
Tressel didn't get the talent that Urban has and Urban is definitely a better recruiter.
I know we lost some big games under Tressel (Texas, UF, LSU) but Tressel was much more consistent in beating the teams with equal or lesser talent. Tressel's teams were in general more consistent then Urban's -- in 3 out of the last 4 years we got steamrolled by teams with much less talent -- Purdue, Iowa and V Tech.
We have been lucky to have 2 top coaches back-to-back, I think Urban's teams featured way more talent but Tressel's teams were in general coached better IMO
2 of the primary things that are killing our consistency under Urban in my opinion are:
1. Under Urban we are getting elite national recruits vs mainly 3-4 star Ohio recruits from the Tressel era. The problem with the eltie recruits we are getting is most of them are leaving early and we are getting just 1-2 years of real playing time out of them--most of them don't play much as freshman and then they are leaving as juniors for the draft. Under Tressel we had some guys leave early but it was the definite exception.
2. Urban has had success getting us to the playoffs and even when we didn't we would win our bowl game. As a result, his assistants are in demand as new head coaches in the NCAA or as position coaches in the NFL so every other year we are losing the top offensive and defensive coordinators.
Its really damn hard to keep the train rolling when you're losing the top assistant coaches every other year and the top talent is only playing a year or two before leaving for the draft.
Saban and Bama have the exact same issues but I don't see Saban getting throttled by less talented teams on an annual basis. I realize upsets happen but getting curb stomped by the likes of Iowa and Purdue aren't upsets
Saban/Bama are the only team that have been able to overcome assistants leaving at the same fast pace as ours have been and they have also overcome the frequent early departures of 4 and 5 star players.
Dabo/Clemson may be on that path but it is too soon to tell.
No other blue chip programs have been able to overcome those things.
We all see Saban and Alabama and think if they can do it why can't we?
I don't know how Saban does it but he is known to be involved in all aspects of 'Bama's program and he's known to be a control freak
I heard that Urban was like Saban when he was at BG, Utah and Florida but after his health scare and spending time at ESPN he decided to be more of a delegating CEO type coach. I'm not sure if that's what is really happening but maybe that's the difference between bama and us at this point?
I honestly don’t have faith in this group of assistants as a whole. Something definitely has to change. Most specifically, at the LB, OL, and Secondary coaching spots. While it’s important to understand that, I think it’s just as important to know what/who we want to fill those spots.
At LB specifically, I feel the game has changed a great deal. The game is faster and we need a coach that can relate to today’s game. Given the early success of someone like Brian Hartline, a former player with recent college and NFL experience, would it be that bad of an idea to bring in someone with a similar resume? I can’t imagine a better story than someone like Ryan Shazier helping with this unit. Or even someone like James Lauranitis. Cerebral guys who have played the game and understand its nuances in the present day.
....and Michigan still sucks
While I love the idea of Shazier coaching, the job of an assistant requires a great deal of traveling. I am not sure at this point or ever he will ever be in a position where he can travel for days in row visiting high schools and coaches.
I honestly don’t have faith in this group of assistants as a whole. Something ddefintiely has to change. Most specifically, at the LB, OL, and Secondary coaching spots. While it’s important to understand that, I think it’s just as important to know what/who we want to fill those spots.
At LB specifically, I feel the game has changed a great deal. The game is faster and we need a coach that can relate to today’s game. Given the early success of someone like Brian Hartline, a former player with recent college and NFL experience, would it be that bad of an idea to bring in someone with a similar resume? I can’t imagine a better story than someone like Ryan Shazier helping with this unit. Or even someone like James Lauranitis. Cerebral guys who have played the game and understand it’s nuances in the present day.
Fickle, Combs and Ash would be the ones that come to mind right away.
I don't know who you miss most, but Warinner was Michigan's biggest gain this year. Don Brown is incredible on defense, but so much depends on line play. I don't know what has happened to your OL, but it isn't pretty. As for defense, Coombs is indeed a huge loss, along with Fickell.
(EDIT: And if I was sarcastic, I would write that I miss Zach Smith being at OSU the most.)