Is the OL Really to Blame for Lack of Run Game?

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

and btw, this is a scheme discussion, not calling for anyone's head. so let's not talk about firing people.

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Neilwoodgables's picture

for the largest OSU offensive line in history to be unable to get some push says something about the players.  

I Hate Michigan.

 

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

Well, how many many do they have to block? with a running QB it creates an extra gap for defenders to have to fill so even if they have stacked boxes you can run against them and we did that against michigan state and even Iowa and Oklahoma when we decided to run.

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bigbadbuck's picture

or the schemes or both

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, its a war room

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MaxPowerBucknut's picture

Agreed. This line is soft. So many missed blocks and complete lack of push. The OL has no leader either. There’s no Billy Price, or Taylor Decker our there—guys with a mean streak who will everyone around them to be better. The presumed leader? Isaiah Prince? L. O. L. A mental midget if there ever was one. 

OSUCOM 2008 Graduate. Go Bucks!

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IsJoeFlaccoElite's picture

They are the TALLEST offensive line in memory. That doesn't mean they are great run blockers. We essentially have 5 tackles out there.

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stxbuck's picture

Good point-no low down maulers at G or C-Pat Elflein types.

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macdaddybuckeyesupreme's picture

For a power spread offense, yes a running qb is needed. We don't have a running qb, we have a pro quarterback. The scheme has to be changed, if coaches are not willing to adjust the scheme then coaches should be shown the door

Successful people do what they have to, whether they feel like it or not

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TheVictoryBell's picture

The biggest blame is on the play calling. They continue to use running schemes like we have a running QB. Just a complete refusal to adjust by these coaches. 

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Buckets At Fletcher's's picture

This. Install a couple run plays other than a read option. Hell,  start by installing ONE other run play. Mind boggling.

"Everyone has a plan, 'til they get punched in the mouth."

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aj99's picture

I don't think it's the play calling per se.  I think it's more likely that the O line blocking schemes for the play are wrong.  Something went wrong in the design of the play before it was called. If this was a once in while thing, then I would say they're not executing.  I do not believe that they are "soft" as some of you do.  I do not think that's possible.  It's much more likely that the coaching staff isn't putting them in the right position.

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Hoosierbuck7's picture

If you paid attention at all to this game, the staff had a number of new running plays they installed. Even tried counter toss and counter trey (with some new window dressing). It did little to help.

I will say, I think Dobbins & Weber had their worst game collectively, as they missed some opportunities. No doubt, they’re second guessing themselves because of the lack of holes. That said, I watched the offensive lineman literally flat miss a block 4-5 times. I think we have “tackles” playing in the interior of the line who don’t have that nasty guard mentality. Chemistry is hard at this stage, but I’d love to see what Taylor and Bowen (when healthy) can do for this team.

“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” - Urban Meyer

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earthpig's picture

Without a running threat ya just load the box..  Out man the line and attack..  That being said the O line isn't getting off the ball either..  Seriously- 4 trips to the red zone for 6 points?  Need I say more?  When you have the ball inside the 10 you need to be able to run.. the D has the advantage in the red zone due to the space available.  If you can't punch through you are done..

Pigskins & Porkrinds

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

loaded boxes aren't that hard to run against at the college level especially with a running QB or in a pro style offense. I.e. LSU against UGA last week. 

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earthpig's picture

It is of your line cannot block..  There is no reason why a running back shouldn't be able to get 3 yards regularly.  

Pigskins & Porkrinds

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

so LSU's OL is much better at blocking a 4 and 5 star georgia front. lol great one there m8. more to run game than blocking. Look at the panthers in the NFL, paper machet o l and they gash teams .

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earthpig's picture

LSU's line would eat the Buckeyes for lunch and crap them out by dinner time at this point..  

Pigskins & Porkrinds

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stuckupnorth's picture

It’s an inability for the coaches to be able to put a play in for personnel. It’s not rocket science. The whole needing a running QB argument don’t hold water. There are dozens of teams that can run the football without a running QB. Heck every team they played this year has ran the ball down OSU throats. The coaching staff are not setting up the team to succeed. No reason high school all Americans and future NFL NFL players can’t pick up one yard time and time again against mid tier teams. Bad coaching

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

this is a power spread offense which uses isolation blocking and lots of counter/pulling and those require a running qb. obviously you dont need a running threat at QB to run the ball in a pro style offense.

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stuckupnorth's picture

That’s what I’m saying. Call it what you want. It’s no different in baseball. You can try and be a home run hitting team but if you got a skinny small shortstop that bats .400 but can’t hit it to the warning track good luck. Maybe change your strategy. It’s on the coaches for not being able to adjust the offense. They probably got 10million a year wrapped up in it figure it out. I would try the ol hike the ball straight hand off. Put between the right guard and center, or even more radical yet put the tight end on the line and straight helmet to helmet with tight end help. If you really want to get fancy the QB sneak up middle or running off tackle guard combination. Point is don’t be cute hand ball off run 7000 miles per hour up the gut pick up a couple yards. I’ve seen thousands hundreds of thousands of football plays. Those plays are proven at all levels. Just ask OSU defense 

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Dillon G's picture

Tom Brady is s running QB. 

#walkaway

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skinnytrees's picture

If it is not the O-Lines' fault, not the coaches' fault, and not Buddha's fault

It must be Nick Bosa's fault

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Bucks2K18's picture

Honestly, this loss is not all on the offense. Sure we scored 6 points in three quarters, and had a pick six, but the defense gave up 42, and really, that pick six was just running up the score. No need for that.

That's a Buckeye touchdown!

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DefendYoungstown's picture

The pick 6 was deserved just to rub it in urbs face

What we can't do in the air we'll do on the ground.

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Neilwoodgables's picture

No need for that?   Are you serious?   OSU put 56 on the ‘Due the last time they played.  Was there a need for that?  

I Hate Michigan.

 

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Bucks2K18's picture

But we only scored 7 in the fourth in that game whereas they scored 28 in the fourth in this game. Totally unnecessary. After the guy picked it off, he coulda just slid down and Purdue coulda drained the rest of the clock out

That's a Buckeye touchdown!

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TheDizzle's picture

I thought the whole point of starting Haskins was to establish a vertical attack... the "horizontally" stretch is bullshit. It's code for Screens and Out routes for everyone!! Then we're surprised when they load up the box and now we cant even fucking run the ball anymore. Ohio State... the home of Archie Griffin, Eddie George, Ezekiel Elliott... can't run the ball. Embarrassing.

"The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish" - Charlie Chaplin

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DefendYoungstown's picture

The "horizontally" stretch keeps us a true RPO team, urban loves YAC and with the dink and dunk passes you get lots of YAC.

What we can't do in the air we'll do on the ground.

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Buckster's picture

yes, the O-Line can't run block.  Time to make personnel changes at O-Line and LB..

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

PFF and Football Outsider grades say otherwise my friend 

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WVBuckeye's picture

They also consistently rank Alex Hornibrook as the best QB in the B1G so I’m not sure that’s a convincing argument. The o-line is very good in pass protection, but below average in run blocking. Just watch them play. One of them ALWAYS falls or completely whiffs on a block. Which is weird because we didn’t have that problem last year.

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saintstephen11's picture

obviously their grading system sucks.

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AZbucks77's picture

Been screaming this all night.  You can't run a read option with a QB who can't run.  Everyone knows that Dwayne isn't going to keep the ball so they key on the running back and we end up with 47 yards rushing against fucking Purdue. 

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youra6's picture

O line killed 2 drives in the beginning with stupid penalties. And yes that in of itself killed the run game on those 2 drives. We have a senior OL who plays like a freshman. There are plenty of things to fix but saying the OL isn't a problem is like saying the LBs arent a problem. Remember, Dobbins was a 1400 yard rusher last year. There is no cohesiveness of leadership in this OL as there has been previous years.

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MercyTex's picture

Not true. Texas Tech can run on occasion.  We are soft.  We are UT soft.  Need grit.

Our people are everywhere, Esto Dignus.

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Buckets At Fletcher's's picture

Softest team on both sides I've seen at OSU. Not even close to playing hungry. Especially the online.

And we need a change in leadership on the Defense. Too many guys look completely lost out there.

"Everyone has a plan, 'til they get punched in the mouth."

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oztintacius's picture

They need Linebackers with talent out there. Werner and Borland wouldn't have started for the past 10 Ohio State defenses.

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buckslan's picture

A running QB isn't needed for a power spread running attack. I don't get where that idea is even coming from. It's 100% on the OL and their inability to push defenders off the LOS. Our running backs constantly get met within 2 yards of the LOS on almost every play. Their height is working against them as they seemingly always get out leveraged. Moving Jordan to center was a bad move just like it was moving Worley to MLB. Time to move Jordan to LG, play Myers at center, and see about putting Wyatt Davis in there for Knox. But that won't happen, I don't expect this stubborn coaching staff to make such a bold move. So I guess I'll just pray that the OL gets better.

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

a power spread has NEVER won a title at the college level w/o a running threat. Cam Newton and Tim tebow .

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Kujo247's picture

I like your idea of Myers at center since he's been consistently accused of "only" being a run blocker.  At least that would give us one of them.  And I also agree with Jordan at guard even though he seems to be well regarded nationally as a center.  I still don't know what to think about the tackles.  Certainly not the quality we've been used to over the last 20 years.

Nothing is too difficult for the person that doesn't have to do it.

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oztintacius's picture

Go watch tape of that line against Wiscy, Bama, Oregon 2014. You don't need to have JTB under center to have a running game.

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

then what happened when 2015 season started? people got film on cardale and the offense went belly up . if would've ran a pro style that year we wouild've dominated with cardale.

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oztintacius's picture

Because Cardale wasn't an accurate QB, not because of the scheme. We could still run the ball in 2015, Cardale just couldn't hit the broad side of the barn some games.

You don't need a mobile QB to run the football, and you don't need a fullback. You need an Oline and TEs that can block.

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Trapper99's picture

I see a lot of whiffs on run blocks. Jordan is slow to come out of the snaps. I want to say their size is working against them, but maybe it is just the size of their heads. They ain't a nasty bunch. Decker was nasty. Price was nasty. Eflein was nasty. I think this line just expects the defenders will move out of the way for them.

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Hoosierbuck7's picture

I agree with the size comment. Losing leverage often on the interior. I’ve often thought placing “tackle-sized” players on the interior was to a team’s detriment, unless they had that special attitude to get it done. 

“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” - Urban Meyer

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Eph97's picture

Werner and Borland are the new Storm Klein clones. This defense makes the 2013 defense look like the '00 Ravens

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oztintacius's picture

The offense just had a record day passing the ball yet y'all are stuck on the offense. It isn't the best, but this defense just gave up 42 to PURDUE.

500 yards of offense should ALWAYS be enough to beat Purdue, I don't care whatever else is said.

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youra6's picture

Agreed it 70% everyone else. Yeah let's forget about one of the worst 4th quarter defensive breakdowns in Buckeye history...

Let's go back to those back breaking undisciplined 15 yard penalties that got Purdue 14 points. That to me was the difference in this game.

However to play devil's advocate it's completely inexcusable to score 6 points in 4 trips to the end zone. That's the other 30%

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OSU725's picture

In all fairness this is a different game if 4 red zone trips ended up with more than 6 points. The inability to run the ball is directly related to that. The defense is awful, no questions about that. The back 7 is about as bad as I can remember, add in some bone headed penalties and this is what happens. 

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aj99's picture

You're correct to a point.  But 500 yards should have yielded vastly more points.

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GoBucks10's picture

It's actually Luke Fickell's fault for leaving.

There's no points for second place, gentlemen.

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Frimmel's picture

Kinda is isn't it? I said earlier in the week that I heard him talking about not wanting the guys to think. I heard that a bunch after the first Clemson debacle and a coach getting fired. The defense is solid. He leaves and all the problems we had in Coach Meyer's first two seasons creep back in. I'm not in practice but the LBs have not looked properly prepared at any time this season. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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Frimmel's picture

I'm in on the comments about the OL getting out leveraged but it has to be more to it than that because we ran it fine in game one. The scheme is an open book. We'd be having problems even if the line wasn't whiffing on guys. And are they really whiffing? The d-lines are getting off the ball like they know the snap count or something and shooting gaps. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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oztintacius's picture

Anyone can run the ball on Oregon State and Rutgers. They can't run and block on anyone with a pulse.

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Frimmel's picture

Yes, but in those games it didn't look like Oregon State and Rutgers knew exactly what we were going to do like they had the play-calls. We're giving the thing away somehow before we even get to the execution. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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Buckeye Beast's picture

Yes it is. You have 2 former 1000 yard rushers at RB. You have a QB who can air it out, which theoretically should open up the running game and vice versa. We don't get enough push in the running game. My only guess it that the low man always wins, and having a significantly tall O-line with poor knee bend can be an issue in that regard. Some of our better O-lines recently haven't been the biggest, but they played as a cohesive unit under a position coach who established a culture: The Slobs. 

Aesculus Glabra

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Bags5150's picture

This^^^

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth~Mike Tyson

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

really  ? they said the same thing about alabama this year too , yet their run game has regressed in YPC and YAC. looks like you experts calling for haskins were wrong.

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Buckeye Beast's picture

I think it has nothing to do with Haskins and more to do with Greg Studrawa not preparing his unit. I clearly remember upon his hiring that some LSU fans criticized his inability to develop their O-line. He's brought that same mediocre track record with him. Much like Bill Davis, Stud is also an old friend of Urban. The hiring friends thing is getting to be a real problem, especially for an "Offensive line driven program".

Aesculus Glabra

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oztintacius's picture

Yes. Stop making excuses for this sorry OLine. They can't run the ball on ANYONE and just about commit more penalty yardage than positive yards.

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

not making excues for one of the best graded OLs in the country according to PFF. I trust their grading system over 99% of the commenters opinions here. Blaming the OL is such a copout. our OL is not worse than eastern Michigan who ran the ball better than we did against them lmao. bunch of casuals on here at this point. I was over on rollbamaroll and apparently the worst fans in the country are breaking down why our scheme is flawed and what not. they know more than most of this forum at this point.

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tbdbitlbuck's picture

You shouldn’t need PFF to tell you that a crappy OL is actually good

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blu.fan's picture

I think the lack of a running QB hurts you, but I also think a significant part of the blame belongs with the OL. (And I am so, so, so very glad that Warinner is coaching OL at Michigan. You should have kept him as a position coach, which he is absolutely great at.)

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Eph97's picture

He sucked as OC and his ego wouldn't allow for a demotion back to simply OL coach. You better hope he doesn't demand to call plays for you guys or threatens to leave.

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teddyballgame's picture

The OL does suck at run schemes.  Doesn't help that the RBs go down with a strong gust of wind this year either.  Like literally any contact and they're down.  Conversely, opponents break 4-5 tackles on us and voila.."big play"

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Frimmel's picture

Well the scheme isn't one where they have a head of steam behind a fullback into the a gap. They have to read and make a cut to the right hole. The plays are getting blown up at the point where they're supposed to be making a cut by linemen shooting gaps after getting off the ball like they know the snap count. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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Ortonhallalumni's picture

Hop along, archie, Brian bashnagel ,Murray, Tim Spencer, Keith byars, john woolridge, Carlos snow, Robert Smith, Edde, pepe, etc..m as nd others I'm tied could all run witthout the read option..
No excuse for such a piss poor oline.
So, bs, just make adjustments and run had of tackle

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Eph97's picture

Lets see what Teague can do. Weber and Dobbins drop immediately upon contact.

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raiderred's picture

I think the problem is Jordan and Knox. Think we could solve it by putting Myers in at center and Jordan at guard. Jordan’s obviously a very smart and talented player but it’s fair to say he has failed at center and not looked good. Think we would be better off with a mauler like josh Myers who was a beast run blocking but needed to get his pass protection better. Think we should give him a shot and put Jordan back to where he was doing a pretty good job at guard.

Most importantly though, we can’t keep trotting our the same lineup and expect it to be magically fixed. Got to make some big changes and experiement. Same thing with the linebackers. Hilliard and Jones deserve more of a shot at game time. Give me chances not only in practice. Can’t hurt with how poorly overall this team is playing. And just maybe then we find some solutions and become the powerhouse team urban has recruited.

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BuckeyeFanInBoulder's picture

If you want a running game, we should put Haskins on the bench and run the Veer for the rest of the season

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RBurgundy4's picture

Yep. Sorry, not sorry, but I'm done with RT 59 and TE 13 for their damned penalties. Too fucking many. Both are Sr's and they can't play. Gotta go, at this point. RG 78 can't play either, but not for penalties, just because he doesn't know who to fucking block from snap to snap. He's guessing half the time. Every one of those players needs to sit down because none can play at a championship level. 

But none will sit and we'll just have to wait until they graduate, because Urban. Had they signed up to play for Saban they would have transferred by now because they're not good enough to win a championship with, adn that would have been made clear to each of them. As OSU supporters, we'll just have to wait it out. 

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

or saban would've adjusted his offense. really the lack of running game is because of TWO guys? dude shut up already lmao you're embarassing yourself. Saquon barkley was running behind one of the statistically worst run blocking lines in CFB. You know why? trace mcsorelys ability to run opens up an extra lane. PSUs OL is worse than ours.

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ZekeWeberDobbins's picture

and to top it off Miles Sanders is doing the same thing. if PSU had our OL they'd be undefeated tbh.

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Hateblue's picture

Meyers moves to Center and I think the offensive line will improve. He’s a natural center, whereas Jordan is forcing it. 

Just strange to me they pass block well, but can’t run block at all. You usually don’t see one without the other. 

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Netbuck's picture

We talk about '9 units strong' a lot.  A scheme is made up of those interlocking units.  When we talk about changing the offense it means changing all those pieces in a way that everything is different but they all still fit together perfectly.  I'd argue our current situation is the result of an incomplete change to the offense.  Having a threat to run at QB means that you have less defenders in the box to block.  It advantages the running back and the O line.  Replacing read option with RPOs doesn't have the same impact.  Also, as we saw with Cardale, having a QB that was a threat to run impacted the other team's safety play.  They either let Devin Smith behind them and Marshall run free on the deep cross or they played back and let Cardale rumble for first downs.  

Right now we have removed a central piece of our offensive scheme, the QB run.  We haven't altered the rest of our scheme to account for that change.  So you see breakdowns in blocking and the run game.  We also have not stretched the field vertically, only horizontally.  This means the LBs and DBs all can play close to the line of scrimmage, making it easier to assist in the run game which leads to fewer explosive plays by our offense and less room to run on the edges.  Go back and look at how deep Alabama's DBs were playing in the Sugar Bowl.  

So, you either stick with scheme that has the QB at least be a viable threat to run (not JT levels, but at least Cardale) or you change the scheme for every other unit and maybe have to change it all back when this QB leaves.  Haskins may be able to do it, he looked OK running JTs playbook last year at Michigan.  He had great passes and a couple big runs.  But we can't be successful with a broken scheme.  

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Woody16111's picture
  • Yes, it’s 100% to blame.
  • This line consistently gets pushed around.
  • First 5 yards is on the line on running plays, then it’s all recruiting with the RB.
  • This unit can’t even be depended on to get a two yard push on the 2 yard line for a touchdown.
  • Pathetic 
  • When you pass 70+ times in a game, that says it all

"There is nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."

Completed the "Double Skully" 18-August-2015

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buckeyenut74's picture

Think it was Jordan who completely whiffed on a play and that caused him to fall flat on his face. This is another unit who has gotten worse. Freaking Meuer should’ve kept Warriner coaching the offensive line instead of moving him to offensive coordinator. Such a dumb move, why mess with success in this situation? So they can Warriner, now he is coaching for the rival. 

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High St Heismans's picture

Buckeyenut74 3 HOURS AGO 

Freaking Meuer should’ve kept Warriner coaching the offensive line instead of moving him to offensive coordinator. Such a dumb move, why mess with success in this situation? So they can Warriner, now he is coaching for the rival. 

I'm not happy with Meyer right now but Warriner wasn't taking a demotion from offensive coordinator back to O-Line Coach,so he left.He went to Minnesota and now coaches Michigan's O-Line and appears to have done a good job

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buckeyenut74's picture

You might be able to answer this better than I can. First, I apologize for the errors in my last post. I struggle using a phone keyboard, and I don’t know why, but I struggle looking over posts before I hit transmit.

Back to the point at hand, I assume Warriner was ok taking over the offensive coordinator position or he wouldn’t have done it? Maybe someone can elaborate. Either way, what we have is not working. They have not “fixed it”, and we are not “improving” as Meyer said. 

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hnyg8modonwelfare's picture

While the Oline has had it's own issues, Dobbins and Weber have both hesitated when there is a gap.  They aren't in rhythm or they are playing banged up.  There were several run plays called where they normally would have had 7-8 yards and were caught for short gains.  Same with the past couple weeks. 

Yes, for the most part there is no push by the Oline...but the RBs have looked weak lately.

Thank you Urban Meyer and Gene Smith

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Dillon G's picture

It is both. 1 on 1, they are getting pushed back. And there are extra defenders because the spread is not an advantage, unless you have an ankle breaker like Miller, or extraordinary runners like Tebow and Barrett.

#walkaway

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MongosMagic's picture

This is a dumb forum topic.

"Mongo only sausage in bowl of soup"

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NapaBuckeye5's picture

The offense is 0-7 in the red zone over the last two weeks.  Against Minny & Perdon't.  From what I'm seeing the issues are:

- The scheme is not working due to there's one more free defender since Haskins does not run.

- If the staff refuses to adjust the scheme, then STOP faking the option with Haskins.  This slows the play allowing the LBs to get to the open spot.

- They need to put a TE or FB in the backfield since the QB doesn't run.

- The line isn't as bad as people are making them out to be, but where's the fire?  Seriously.

- Haskins needs to be more of a vocal leader out there.

FOR F'S SAKE THIS IS OHIO STATE!  You RUN the ball and STOP the run.  THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE IDENTITY. 

HS