I really doubt players would seriously consider leaving their teammates in the lurch for the playoffs-and that wouldn't play well w/ GMs. Bowl games are a different matter.
that wouldn't play well w/ GMs. Bowl games are a different matter.
I'm not sure that the GMs would really care, players are basically commodities that are bought and traded, there's not really an underlying "loyalty" factor between said commodity and the franchise.
Shandy is not beer
They seem to do a lot of character digging. Don’t want a Laveon Bell situation hurting ur profit train. Well, slowing it.
Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!
Character digging as in determining how much "trouble" (be that criminal or locker room drama) and/or negative publicity a player would bring to the team.
If a player shows a willingness to leave his teammates in the lurch for a championship, what's to say he would not do so in the future in a fit of pique for negotiating a new contract-while still under contract-Leveon Bell. It's more of a psychological evaluation, imo.
hile still under contract-Leveon Bell
Technically, Leveon Bell played out his contract, plus a full season. The franchise tag is one of the dumber things the NFL does.
"Hey, we know this guy played the entire agreed upon length of time, but we want to keep him for one more year that he has no ability to decline and no say in the amount he will be paid for that extra year. And if we want to do it again the following year, we can do that too for a little bit more money. During this time, you aren't allowed to negotiate deals with any team but us. Even though you already played out your initial contract and should be a free agent."
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
I think the franchise tag is actually a very good thing-the player gets paid, while teams are encouraged to resign their primo FAs. Given that a good % of contract $$$ is non-guaranteed, the franchise tag is a way of getting both sides to come to their senses.
Yep. NFL contracts go both ways. Guys under contract get cut all the time. I don’t begrudge players who use the CBA terms to their advantage when they can. The teams treat it like a business, players should too.
"You can never pay back, but you can always pay forward."
Bell is an elite player. That is what matters most. Any GM would have still drafted him even if they knew ahead of time that he would have a contract dispute after 5 years. That wouldn't stop anyone from drafting him where he was drafted - in fact if they knew just how good he would be they still would have picked him way higher than where he was actually drafted
Uummmm....isnt that what Nick just did?
He's still recovering from a significant injury. Doing it w/out an injury is something completely different,imo. Might he be healthy for scUM/the playoff-possibly. Still at risk of reaggravation of the injury-most definitely.
I heard there is little risk once it is 100%. He is just as likely to get any other injury. So the precedence is put yourself and your "stock" above your team. So they can risk their own health to injury. Just because Nick is that much better. Is it a smart decision or a selfish one? If Dremont or Chase blows out a knee because the extra amount of time on the field.....wonder how everyone will feel then.
I also think he is exposed a bit due to lack of full Go practice during his time out. Imagine not playing for 2 months and then being asked to step into a Michigan game... seems a bit more risky than the average approach.
I think we'd all rather have Bosa playing at 80% and acting as an encourager and inspiration to his teammates. That is, everyone except the opposing team.
How about both...smart and selfish.
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
He played the first 2 games of the season w/ a groin issue and it became fully torn against TCU. I'd say the chance of reinjury is quite a bit higher than a one off injury. Let's put this another way-if a sophomore sustained the same injury, w/ the same prognosis, I'm not sure the staff would be in a great rush to hurry them back on the field just for the B10 championship.
stxbuck you dont think John Bosa came out last night saying "he was playing with a groin injury and wont be healthy till November" was nothing more than damage control? I dont buy it. Total damage control to attempt to protect a family image. Besides, I remember hearing Nick brag about his ability to stay healthy because of his stretching schedule. Days before the injury.
"Damage control", "family image"-, put down the conspiracy pipe. The Bosa bros. are tOSU football family legacies-mom alum, uncle Eric Kumerow a 1st rounder. They aren't flaking out on the institution, they are just doing the smart financial thing. This isn't even a case where Nick would be 100% guaranteed ready to go on December whatever-likely-sure. Guaranteed on a tricky injury-absolutely not. Like I said in another post-injuries happen-that's life in football.
If his Dr told him is was highly unlikely for him to be 100% before December then I would completely understand. But we were given a November timeframe and Urban said he was "ahead of schedule".
Let me just say this...basically I just want purity back in college football. I want the players to play for schools they love and not just use them as an extended training camp. It feels like thats what we were used for here with Nick. His NFL training camp.
The "purity of the game" left when the money took over. I think I understand what you want but it hasn't been that way in decades. The kids are just now starting to realize that they actually have some power in the decision.
These words ring true...
If you don't give John Bosa the benefit of the doubt on his statement regarding Nick's injury and prognosis, why do you take what Urban says at 100% face value?
And again- the November timeframe we were given wasn't- "and we expect him back in November", it was, "and his injury was so severe that with the surgery required and expected rehabilitation course, we will reevaluate his progress in November." Two very different things.
certainly true. He obviously wasn't at OSU for the education.
Purity-like when universities hired ringers to play for their teams back in the 1890s, or players got way better stuff from boosters relative to today back in the 1970s and 80s? Read some history-it's not all perfect nostalgia for the butthurt.
Honor stops some of them, the love of the game others.
I am not sure it is dishonorable or a lack of love that causes this thing.
The line is where they want it to be. Players have little to no control over their fate, this decision gives some to them. I'm all for any of them sitting out if they think it protects their chances at doing what they are going to college to do.
If an OSU computer programming student got a job offer from Google, he'd jump and no one would bat an eye. But that kid doesn't add to our enjoyment of Saturdays and that is what drives these questions.
Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.
If an OSU computer programming student got a job offer from Google, he'd jump and no one would bat an eye. But that kid doesn't add to our enjoyment of Saturdays and that is what drives these questions.
You're right, but it's a two-sided blade. The computer programmer is not training to go into an entertainment business where the customers will pay more for the products if they have a positive emotional attachment to the "workers" producing the goods/services. I don't begrudge these college players making business decisions. If this trend accelerates, though, they may find out some day that the customers in the aggregate aren't enjoying Saturdays/Sundays as much as they once did - as reflected in declining product sales. At which point, maybe all those individual business decisions will add up to being bad for business.
the customers in the aggregate aren't enjoying Saturdays/Sundays as much as they once did
This is as good of a place as any to ask that question. Certainly there are Browns fans on here, and we know there are folks on here that didn't like Denzel Ward skipping the bowl game.
Are there any Browns fans on here that enjoy the Sunday product any less because one of their first round picks sat out the bowl game?
I'm not a Browns fan, but I haven't heard any complaints from my friends who are.
I think it's a safe bet that the folks who didn't like Denzel sitting out where almost exclusively Buckeye fans or just haters. And there's a large overlap between the Buckeye fanbase and the Browns fanbase.
I think that NFL fans don't think less of the players on their team because they sat out a bowl game, or at least any negative effect is small enough to not make them change their allegiance/behavior/purchasing patterns.
Yep, as a Buckeye and Browns fan, I was pumped when we drafted Denzel, and I'm pumped that he's arguably the DROY right now. I also didn't blame him for sitting out the bowl game, because I realize my entertainment doesn't matter to CFB players who aren't making a penny for the product they put out.
11W comment threads aren't a very representative sample. We are all currently avid football fans, especially of Ohio State football. I didn't like what Denzel Ward did and I am not even a Browns fan, but I still want Denzel Ward to excel in the NFL because it helps sell the next generation of high recruits on the OSU "NFL pipeline" and BIA "branding."
NFL t.v. ratings have been declining in recent years. A lot of empty seats in college and NFL stadiums. There are different theories on why . . . e.g., "The NFL's Ratings Probably Will Continue To Decline."
To get a better feel for why, though, we'd need to poll the fans who have been less interested in football, not die hards like you and me.
Would you be a lil’ more direct, Lol!
I suspect that the effect is very diffused. Sitting out the bowl game probably will have minimal effect, if any, on Denzel Ward's career earnings in the NFL. So, in individual cases, it is often a rational calculation.
But what's the cumulative effect on the industry, as a whole, over time, if there is a growing trend whereby the players publicly signal in the most dramatic ways that their interest in the game is 95% mercenary? Keep in mind that this is an entertainment business that is largely fueled by the cultural and emotional attachments of its customers.
If this trend does end up contributing to the sport being less popular/lucrative, the downward pressure on player salaries will be shared by all players, not just those who made these "business decisions." That's partly why many professional trades develop codes and bylaws: to protect the industry, overall, from the effects of individual professionals making certain types of business decisions that might benefit them individually but for which the "costs" are spread elsewhere.
I see what you're saying RFR, but is there an NFL fan over the age of 15 who doesn't already know that NFL players' interest is 95% mercenary?
I'm not saying that a bunch of college football players sitting out games will have no effect on the NFL, but I think rule changes like the QB protection rules, the corporate feel, & the on-field product being unwatchable at times will have a much greater effect on the NFL losing popularity.
Yeah, but I think the fans' attachment to the entertainment product is complicated, just like most aspects of human psychology. People are simultaneously rational and irrational in complex ways.
Side 1: On the one hand, most football fans fully appreciate that it's a business and that most of their football heroes are 95% mercenary. Often, they won't hold it against a mercenary "star" as long as he produces on the field at a very high level. If his play drops, though, they will often turn on this guy faster than they will on a guy who is perceived to be an old school warrior who supposedly "plays for the love of the game," etc.
Side 2: But there is another element of football fandom that is more emotional and tribal - not necessarily irrational, but not grounded in rationality either. When college football junkies like myself argue that college football has more pageantry, color, meaning, atmosphere, etc., that's coming from an emotional side.
Well, it's quite possible that the "mercenary" trend the OP describes above could have minimal effect on how fans relate to the game rationally, while depressing how they relate to the game in a "tribal" sense.
I stopped watching NFL games years ago because the product was absolutely boring. Completely different game than the college game.
I also stopped watching college basketball because of the one and done rule. At that point you are just rooting for the laundry ... plus the quality of play is greatly diminished.
If you don't like the Google hypothetical, then how about a Theater Dept student who's the lead in the Spring musical, but bails halfway through the performance run because he/she got a role in a motion picture? Or maybe it's the OSU Glee Club's star tenor -- right before a regional competition, he gets hoarse. He rests his voice and *might* be ready to perform again in time for nationals. But he also has a Broadway audition lined up for post-school. Doc says he could sing in the nationals, but if he hurts his vocal cords again it could lead to permanent damage. They're all in the entertainment business too. And maybe the Spring musical isn't as good with the student's stand-in, and maybe the Glee Club team doesn't win at nationals. But anyone faulting the students for protecting their careers is (IMHO) just being selfish and not caring about the students' well-being.
I think the big difference people are forgetting is that Nick is currently hurt. If he isn't going to be "healthy" until the B1G Championship, why risk coming back not in playing shape and getting hurt again?
If Nick doesn't get hurt, I don't think he chooses to sit out any games, especially if the Buckeyes make the playoffs.
Until a mass amount of fully healthy players start ending their season early, this isn't really a discussion. Nick was injured and is protecting his top 5 pick contract by making sure he does no further damage to his body before the draft, which is 100% the correct decision.
Rumor is Haskins is going to sit out the playoffs, as to not risk injury.
He also didn't go to school for free.
He also didn't generate millions in revenue for the school's athletic department, despite being barred from receiving compensation that approximates his market value.
Not necessarily true. Research tends to bring money to the school in very big amounts. Theoretically the individual may have played a part on the team that succeed funding.
Is there any rule that prevents a research assistant from receiving fair-market compensation for the work they do? I don't know the answer, but it doesn't seem that research assistants have any level of "amateur status" that must be protected to continue doing their work.
No, your just not gonna get a good job without the degree(s) tied to you. I was just pointing out that even though football makes money, other students do things that the school capitalizes on as well, during their education process.
Speaking only to your analogy, no one would bat an eye because the computer programmer was paying to go to Ohio State.
Change the analogy so the kid is on a full scholarship. Doesn't change the fact that he's right. We care because we want OSU to win a national title and Bosa helps that. Nobody here actually gives a damn about brotherhood and honor.
Isn’t brotherhood and honor kinda the glue that made football what it is. The reason it is so American? To me, it was. Maybe this is a product of today’s me society, but yeah, Buckeye football is more than just football.
Buckeye football is more than just football
It's also bigger than one player making a smart business decision. Anyone here pretending to care about this SOLELY for the reason that Nick violated some code of brotherhood is kidding themselves. People are mad because it takes away from OSU's chance to win a National Title, that's it.
Did I say anything about nick? No. Triv, I wasn’t saying that.
You replied to my comment regarding brotherhood and honor as it pertained to Nick. It's reasonable to assume you were also referring to Nick. My mistake
All good, I often appreciAte your point of view on things.
Buckeye football is more than just football.
Yeah, its mostly about $$$.
Triv gets it. Thanks buddy.
What if he was on full ride academic scholarship?
What about it? Just means there's that much more scholarship money available for somebody else. It's not like Ohio State was gaining anything from the programmer/student.
It's not like Ohio State was gaining anything from the programmer/student
You realize that's literally the point of the analogy, right? We want Bosa to stay because we are gaining something from him being on the team. The football team gains something from Bosa returning (a better chance at winning). You know who gains nothing from returning? Nick Bosa. Just like the programmer won't pass up the Google job out of any "honor" or "commitment to the school" because he doesn't owe the school a damn thing, and neither does Nick.
As I clearly stated in my original reply, I was speaking ONLY to the hypothetical analogy, NOT Bosa's decision.
Hard to care about a team if all the players only care about themselves.
Apparently you have no idea what Google is or what individuals deliver there.
Try driving to your out of town ball game with Apple maps. Google Brain? Quantum computing? NFL stops. World continues. Google stops. World stops.
Mach11 with hairball on fire
Bosa is in a unique situation here. His first few games and talent were going to get him drafted. If he were not drafted I think he would have played to the end, but given his injury and how long it takes to recover he is looking out for his football future. And the millions at the next level. Cannot blame the kid. If he would not have been hurt I think he would have played hard each and every game and been a dominant force that we know he is.
I honestly am mixed on it. As a fan, I like to watch the bowl season with the best players playing, but at the same time what it is in it for late in their career players? If it is in the playoff than a title is great and enough, but if you are in the Outback Bowl, then what? If you are good and going to get drafted than it is playing a game and risking injury for not much reward in the end.
I get why they do it, I would prefer that they did not as a fan, but the rational side of me understands and would do the same thing in terms of bowl games.
With the addition of the CFP unless you are playing in one of those games there's no "real" reason to play in a bowl game. Yes, there's brotherhood and being a good teammate but if you're a lock to make tens of millions of dollars why do it?
The line will be drawn only when the NFL owners specifically come out and say "we didn't draft this player because he sat for his bowl game". On-field production and talent will always trump morals when it comes to a business like the NFL.
Look for this trend to continue to become more popular over the next few years.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
I do not see the owners ever saying that though. I am not sure it is morality though. Seems to me that it is the best decision given the set up for many players.
College football with the playoff is a very different thing than it once was. And given the short shelf life of NFL players, those with those aspirations and talent want to get started as early as they can. Can hardly blame them. There are things like brotherhood, but these guys love the team they are on in most cases. It is just a business decision in the end.
The Universities are making loads of money off these kids in many programs. This is their chance to try and make some or avoid hurting their chances.
That said, yo ucould get hurt in training camp for the respected NFL team, so there is that too.
Agree with you 100. There is a ton at risk for a top tier player to stay for a meaningless bowl. On the positive side the bowls give the younger players a chance to step up, and be in great position to secure a starting position the next season.
Pigskins & Porkrinds
Players that are guaranteed 1st round money should not be wasting their time in useless bowl games, that's where the line is drawn.
You're not seeing players skipping junior seasons or end of season rivalry games, if Mike Weber sat out the outback bowl (god forbid it gets that bad) I wouldn't blame him.
I hear you, but I'd contest with a less than cautious, NOT YET. Wasn't there talk of Fournette not playing his 3rd year at LSU? It'll be interesting going forward and I hope it stays the way it is, but to say it won't happen in the future feels a bit short-sighted. All it takes is one to set a trend.
Like I said in my other post, 20 years ago no one on earth would've believed that in 2018, THIRTY SEVEN early entrees would go undrafted. Everything changes with time...I think we're at the beginning of a bigger shift than most think.
Buckeyes & Blue Jackets.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's moved down to 2 years after HS, there's still so much depth in the draft, how many undrafted guys make something of themselves. The new minor league being pitched by ex NFL personnel people will help.
Those 37 and many others have their reasons, most are receiving bad advice from family members but also want to earn money as soon as possible for various reason.
I’d say it’s more Agents giving out the bad info. They come sniffing early around guys, as early as their Jr year and in some cases, as high rising Sophomores.
THIS happens at OSU as much as any of the other college programs!
Someone please tell these guys they are amateur athletes that are expected to entertain us at our will.
Pain of Discipline
Pain of Regret
Take Your Pick
They should risk their multi-million dollar careers to entertain us for a meaningless bowl game because they got 20,000 in free school without us acknowledging the 7 home games they already played for us.
This was to be taken as humor. Italics betrayed me.
I think Bosa should’ve stayed in school, but I’m all for Chase Winovich, dexter Lawrence, and Tua T leaving early.
Imagine the cheers going up all around college football about this. I'd be somewhat appeased if all of those guys sat it out.
I’m not mad about Bosa leaving, but I’ve never been upset about anyone staying and wouldn’t be bothered by the others you mentioned, staying. I do tend to give more respect to guys who come back. I think it shows the true spirit of sport and a deeper commitment to team and brothers. I’m not saying the same about Nick, he is hurt and who knows what the situation is, he isn’t just electing to leave his team high and dry. Unlike, say Kelly Bryant.
Just trying to stir up good conversation and I appreciate the posts thus far.
It makes you think though right? If you were Dwayne and destroyed Michigan, then decided you were going to enter the draft - why play the rest of the way? People saying, oh I doubt player X, Y or Z would abandon his teammates in the hunt, or even in a secondary playoff game, but haven't we seen that already? When millions of dollars were on the line, the Cotton Bowl wasn't enough for Ward to suit up. The same can be said for many other players in the NCAA.
Like I said, this is just the beginning. Remember when only the 15 or 20 best underclassmen declared eligible for the draft? I see this in a parallel fashion. We could be witnessing the tipping point of all 1st rounders, etc. from playing in bowl games. It sounds ridiculous, but 15 years ago who would've thought 37 players would declare early last season and go undrafted. Anything's possible.
Name the player who skipped the college football playoff or BSC championship game.
If there is something at stake I doubt a player would sit out. Otherwise, why risk it? I mean I know room and board is equal to millions of dollars, but mostly people who watch and not play think that.
I bleed scarlet...literally
I don't think anyone has yet. That being said, I'm sure it will. Why not? CFB has changed a ton and money will always be the driving force. This trend is in its nascence. I'm so old - I remember when people were shocked that players would declare early. Last year 37 early entrants went undrafted. Give it a year or three, once a top-15, top-10 kid decides, he might hang it up right then and there. Conference title or playoff aside. Again, it's their decision and I'm not judging them for it. All I've said is that it's an interesting dynamic and I think we're seeing the tip of the iceberg.
Bosa and Kelly Bryant both have the opportunity to do just that this season.
I don't blame any player for quitting whenever they feel is best to maximize their $$$ in the NFL.
Their only loyalty should be to themselves.
That's the team spirit!
Just FYI: There are rumblings that Rashan Gary may do the same thing.
Got a source on that? Not calling you out, I'd just be very curious to read more.
I don't know if there are "sources" like Sam Webb or anything, but it has been discussed on MGo since even before Bosa announced this.
My phone has been blowing up for the last hour from Michigan fans gloating. I hope to god Gary does it too.
To me, it's part of the system. We have this "three years after HS" arbitrary rule.
In fact, MoC was right... football is business. Let's not pretend it's about academics (and FWIW you can ALWAYS go back to school...online, in the summer, whatever).
If a player is ready to go pro, he should go pro. Do like the MBball does and let players get a "round grade" from the NFL and test the waters. Let the player decide if they're ready to risk it.
This provides INCENTIVE to a player who thinks they're a 1-2 rounder. When they find out they're not, they're more likely to improve their play and train harder. It's like any player in a contract year.
BOSA couldn've gone pro last year. The system prevented it. He got hurt but he also could have pulled a Clowney or even a Denzel Ward and started thinking about the tens of millions of dollars and let it affect his play...and thus the college team.
BETTER to let players go than to make them come back and affect the team chemistry OR their futures.
You win with people.
And so forth...
9 Units Strong!
MoC was indeed right. The rule is completely arbitrary & unjustifiable.
Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0
Props for the MoC reference. Can't forget how upside down that whole process/mess was.
The injury to Bosa compounds his situation - why risk re-aggravating the injury/pushing back his window to go pro?
Sure I'd love to see him back, but from a practicality standpoint the decision to move on is justifiable.
I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...
People in the know mentioned early on it'd be likely a 10 week recovery at minimum, why risk it. Receive treatment, finish your semester then start training for the draft.
Ohio State playing without him had already settled in, for me anyway.
My concerns remain with the run game and the back seven.
Run game would be fixed if we stopped doing RO, Just run it with the QB option. Why can't we go Shotgun 3WR 2RB and mix it up. It's a pro concept that's very successful for Run/Pass.
Also more sweeps/fake sweeps would trigger bigger runs like we had with JT/Zeke.
This isn't sad at all. Fans don't want players to get money in college. Fans don't want players to leave early. They pretty much want players to just entertain them and deal with social media bashing, second guessing, and living off room and board.
I know this may come as a shock but these guys are not livestock, they are human beings. They have wants and needs. Bosa this year, Ward last year, they are doing what they need to do to make it to the next level. And I'll be cash money that rather than their brothers at arms being pissed off and feeling abandoned, they more feel like, "I'm next". I hope Nick goes high as hell in the draft and convince the next stud that Ohio State is the place where you can get paid after 3 years.
I (and many others) want them to get money in college and to be able to leave early.
I don't think anyone (well I hope not) is arguing that players are cattle at our entertainment disposal.
On the other hand, to say that it's not a bummer that we've seen the last of Bosa in a Buckeye uni is kind of crazy. Unless there are waves of fans out there I don't know who are excited that he's done at OSU. Sure I want him to get drafted high, as we all do. I'm just saying - I think this is the tip of the iceberg of a bigger trend. It hasn't happened yet, but why not Haskins vs. Michigan? Why not a future Bosa-like prospect sitting out the conference or championship? Sure it's all part of a bigger cycle and these guys have life-long decisions to consider. They need to do what's best for them, but the question still remains...how far does this go? Did you think 37 early entrants would go undrafted last year? Times are changing...I'm just curious to how far this goes.
I want players to fulfill their obligations to the University that invested millions training, coaching and developing players. Declare early, thats fine. But he chose to play a dangerous sport. He took out an insurance policy to protect his draft stock. You give 3 years because we gave you this scholarship at a time when there was hundreds of other players begging for this opportunity.
Quitting has become a new norm in sports. So Nick gets to protect his stock, but the coaches bonuses are at risk and everyone is suppose to be "cool" with that.
I miss the Woody days. All across college football. Where they played the sport for the love of the game, for the player next to them, for the coaches and for the fans. This all about me mentality wasnt suppose to happen in team sports.
Regardless, I am raising my son to make different decisions. And he will be respected, not questioned. Maybe he can take the "i" out of team.
Screw those multi millionaire coaches
Woody coached in 1951 for what was at that time an incredible $12,500 a year (in 2018 dollars that's only $123,500). Now 50 years later a guy doing the same job is making 70 times that much, who cares if a 8 million dollar coach loses his bonus because a young man who does the actual playing makes a personal decision to enrich himself.
High value employees leave companies all the time for better offers and when they leave potentially put the CEO or Presidents bonus at risk and no one cares because free enterprise, capitalism etc, but god forbid a amateur football player make the same decision, how dare he risk the millionaires bonus for his own benefit, jeesh get over it
The average worker in 1951 made 2800 a year and Woody was getting a little under 5 times that much to coach OSU. Meyer makes 130 times more than the average worker today and I am supposed to weep because Bosa may cost him a bonus that is higher than most people earn in a year? sorry screw the coaches, hurray for player rights
sorry to see him go, i wish he would have come back, but he made the right decision and I am in no positon to question it one way or another
You should check out those insurance policies. They don’t come close to paying what a drop from the top of the first round to the second rounds costs a player.
Ward would have played if we were in the playoffs last season. I think he was even quoted to have said that.
Bosa's injury wasnt a simply injury like a hamstring pull. They had to repair a torn core muscle. He comes back for the playoffs and gets hurt it would kill his draft stock. Although I am sad (and a bit angry at the refs from the TCU game) I cannot fault Nick for deciding this. I also think it was a very hard decision for Nick to make as the team voted him captain, they all love him and he loves the team.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
Google is your friend!
Never heard of him...
You must be a Steelers fan.
Which is why provided a link so you can educate yourself and get up to speed. You're welcome!
Not a popular opinion I'm sure, but the idea of athletes with this level of skill and commitment playing for a scholarship that allows them to take afterthought classes toward a degree they don't really need is ridiculous. "Brotherhood" and all that is nice, but coaches get paid VERY well to compete for the same national championship. As long as CFB continues to be mandatory indentured servitude on the way to playing professionally, you can expect this kind of thing to continue.
I'm pretty sure playing college football is voluntary. Let's not taint your salient points by comparing it to indentured servitude.
Players who stop playing are generally making he smart move. If I was Bosa’s parents I would have done evrything I could to prevent him from coming back.
Considering his dad and uncle know this situation well, you'd have to think their feedback would be pretty bang on.
The schools who are making millions off of these players could always offer to buy insurance policies for these athletes in return for them playing these extra games after the regular season. It could also get to the point where the athletes in exchange for this protection have to sign contracts about completing all team commitments as required by said contract.
I mean first of all many of these athletes are receiving a FREE education which is huge to those of us not lucky enough to benefit from a FREE education and have the loans and payments to make. . So yeah maybe these athletes need to sign job contracts with their schools and then maybe they deserve a salary and benefits as well.
I mean first of all many of these athletes are receiving a FREE education which is huge to those of us not lucky enough to benefit from a FREE education and have the loans and payments to make. . So yeah maybe these athletes need to sign job contracts with their schools and then maybe they deserve a salary and benefits as well.
They can't really take advantage of this free education because of the demands placed on them by football. Not to mention the fact that the degrees they end up getting would be worth very little had they not played football. Perhaps the free education should be deferred until AFTER their football career, and limitations on coach contact lifted. Because what's happening now is a farce.
The schools are not making millions off of these players. Everytime I hear this I want to scream. It's as stupid as the oft heard comment of the NCAA making millions off of players.
The revenue from football , basketball, and to some extent hockey, goes to pay for all the other non positive revenue generating sports such as track, tennis, volleyball, etc. It pays for facilities, equipment , travel, coaches, etc. for the entire athletic department. It pays for security, facility maintenance, etc. OSU is one of the very few schools whose AD has managed that revenue carefully enough that the small surplus after everything is paid is donated to OSU itself to be used in the general scholarship fund for ordinary, deserving students.
I think there are something like six or seven universities that have a positive cash flow out of the AD. Michigan just finally started to go positive about five or six years ago. Prior to that, the university itself was subsidizing the AD. Most universities do have to subsidize their athletic departments and many charge students a fee outside of their regular tuition fees to help cover costs.
The schools are making millions off of these players.
The fact they use it to build extravagant buildings, pay extravagant salaries, and cover smaller sports doesn't change that fact.
OSU pays the football coaching staff, ie just 10 people nearly $14 million a year to coach the football team. at half that amount they would all still be quite well off financially and the 84 scholar players on OSU could be paid a salary of over 80K a year.
OSU spent $172 million in 2017 dollars (120 Million at the time) on the VCA a completely unneeded and to large degree disliked center.
That 120 million could have been spent on player salaries to the tune of $6000 per SA across all sports at OSU for 20 years
Our beloved AD has been paid over 900K a year for a decade. If he made ahfl that much he would still be a wealthy man and another 4.5 million would be available
Athletic programs enrich themselves and put up fancy buildings to spend money they make so they can show themselves as being broke rather than pay players.
Lowly Akron, one of the supposedly broke MAC schools somehow found a way to spend over $60 million to build a new football stadium that was smaller than the Rubber Bowl they already had.
Schools also engage in dubious accounting by deducting the supposed cost of the scholarships, ie not a real cost in any sense but Akron in 2015 claimed they spent $7.2 million on them, plus spent over $10 million on salaries of coaches staff and support and nearly $5 million on debt support payments for the crazy stadium. So if you ignore the scholarship bogus "cost" cut salaries in half and dont build the stadium, then even Akron has around $17 million available to spend on athlete salaries, but no they dont have any money...
They lost money on their bowl that year spending almost 200K more than they brought in, talk about "finding ways to spend all this cash". They accepted a bowl bid to play in Idaho in front of less than 20K people. And rather than treat it as a road game in which they typically spent about 400K per trip on, they instead spent almost 770K on it, or almost double their normal expenses.
All these coaches and admins are looking out for "I", too just as much if not more than the players, ie their hypocrites
In Bosa's case, if the doctors told him he is not cleared to play, or it could be iffy, I see no problem with what he's doing. However, if he is cleared to play in a couple weeks and OSU has not lost a game yet I find this a very disturbing trend. The question is where would the line be drawn...the truth is no one knows. I believe it's just a matter of time that a superstar like Bosa sits out their jr year to train for the draft.
One term I despise is useless games or meaningless games. With the addition of the CFP now any game that is not a playoff game is useless. Let's say for a minute that the Bucks lost those two games to TCU and PSU. Should every player that is expected to be drafted just quit playing? How long will it be before a game against TTUN will be considered meaningless?
In the end, it will always be the players' decision. He decided where to go to school and he'll decide when to quit and we will always say we can't blame him...it's a lot of money.
Let's say for a minute that the Bucks lost those two games to TCU and PSU. Should every player that is expected to be drafted just quit playing?
If they were smart they would.
I don't blame Nick Bosa in the slightest. That said, I have the urge to vomit you get when you've been kicked in the testicles.
Their making money is getting in the way of my entertainment... I'll survive.
I know every player's case is different. Case in point: Leonard Fournette and Zeke. I'm not even mad at Nick for this.
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games .I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
— Ezekiel Elliott (@EzekielElliott) December 19, 2016
Easy for Zeke to say after he got drafted high and made millions and left OSU injury free and ready for the draft.
Also mildly hypocritical of Zeke, considering he left an entire season of eligibility on the table to get those millions. I realize that is different than sitting out a bowl game, but he shouldn't have said "I'd give anything" when he literally had a chance for another season with his brothers.
Zeke wasn't injury free during his three years at Ohio State. Well after it became 100% clear that Zeke was about to get drafted in the first round and make millions, he rushed for 149 yards (on 27 carries!) in the 2016 Fiesta Bowl.
I didn't say that. I said after his career he was injury free and draft ready. If he had torn his ACL in the Fiesta Bowl, he'd probably have a different view.
Then why didn't he come back for his senior year?
"Life is not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. THATS HOW WINNING IS DONE!!" - Rocky Ballboa
I'm butt hurt like everyone else right now, but in all honesty, if it were my kid (and I have a son in college who is the same age as Nick) I'd tell him to go get paid and don't look back. You can always go back to finish later if you want, blah, blah, blah. It'd be a short conversation.
Here's my take. If you join the team at the start of the season, you should stick it out until the very end...including the bowl game. If all you care about is the draft, then you shouldn't be on the team in the first place. Train all fall instead of playing.
Could Ruckert play both ways?
"i'm not here to bash players' decisions, but anyway here i am ruminating about how their decision is wrong, bad, and dumb."
Or I'm just acknowledging that this could be an iceberg/tip situation.
I said from the top I'd do the exact same thing. As long as people don't take the question out of context, there's some great conversation to be had here.
And gentlemen in Ohio now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd
they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap
while any speaks
That fought with us upon the Purdue game.
I don't know if our take on it matters one way or the other. It comes down to the player... You either have that desire to play in the post season with the team you've battled so hard with all year, or you don't, and truthfully, neither take is right or wrong.
Sometimes you get a Denzel Ward who skips his bowl game and is still a top 5 pick and starts his NFL career off with a bang.
Then sometimes you get a Jake Butt who was the #1 TE, played in a meaningless exhibition to end the season and blew out his knee.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
I alluded to this in a comment in the big Bosa post, but devotion to college sports is even more purely emotional than rooting for professional teams, since with the pros you at least know you're watching the best at what they do (non-Americans find the fact that American colleges operate major sports programs to be inexplicable). People follow the Buckeyes because they love the school, and they want to believe the student/players love it as much as they do.
That illusion is harder to keep up when players treat their time in college as just a warm-up for the NFL. I know that this has always been true to some extent (I assume Peyton Manning didn't spend a lot of time sweating his classwork at Tennessee), but players sitting out games because they see playing as a risk — saying, in effect, that their future is more important than the present team you care most about — is new territory, and I think it threatens to harm those emotional bonds. The Columbus Clippers are successful and thousands love going to their games, but there's a reason literally no one says says that they live and die with the Clippers — because they know that the Clippers players see Columbus as just a way station to bigger and better things.
We had a long discussion in the Monday Skull Session about the economics of going to games in 2018. If Nick Bosa is going to put economics ahead of old alma mater, don't be surprised if fans begin to feel the same way.
(Just for the record, I'm not criticizing Bosa's decision as I am not in his shoes, and I have no idea how injured he was to begin with or how quickly he's healing up.)
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Great points! To everyone saying that Kid X,Y, or Z was just making a business decision and "If I were Kid X, Y, or Z's parents, I would have advised the same . . ." I don't disagree, as I'd probably do the same. Just keep in mind that fans/alumni make business decisions, too.
Yep, the occupants of the stadium have steadily become more corporate: on the facade, on the scoreboard, in the stands and more and more on the sidelines.
its only a problem you get when you sign players who already know they are not only NFL bound but very high picks. cans see where its an epidemic or even a trend. ITs just the price of doing business.
Like the original poster, I don't blame guys like Ward and Bosa for making decisions that are best for them and their families. However, also like JacketsBuzz, I believe it is a sad trend in collegiate sports. It also sucks to see this trend filter down to high school sports where kids are transferring to more affluent school districts to increase their chances to play big time ball so that they can be in positions to have choices like Ward and Bosa. Again, I don't blame the kids and their families at all. I'm just being nostalgic, I guess.
My personal solution is to support Mt. Union football and smaller school sports in general. Despite the talent drop off, I appreciate the effort and the general levelheadedness of the kids in these programs. Most of these kids have come to realize that big money professional sports is not realistically in their futures, and yet they still dedicate themselves to the sports they love and they play to represent their small schools and communities with tremendous pride. It's refreshing for me. Go Purple Raiders!!
Unless you have a general love of learning (99.999999% of people don't), the only reason to go to college anyway is to prep for a career with a higher earning potential than you'd otherwise have. If you had the credits you needed for that degree and were told, if you take this last class you could blow your chance to have the career you've worked so hard to get...no way would I take that class, even if I loved the gang of friends who were all taking it. (And I wouldn't let my kid do it either.)
How is this any different?
I like your point here. I work fulltime and I go to school. It's nice to claim a school(s), but if I found out tomorrow that I didn't need a particular degree to advance further in my profession, I'd probably quit school instantly. Because it sucks. And as you said, the whole purpose of it is supposed to be to prepare/advance you in a career.
I actually do like learning new things and studying things... However, there's so much that I'd rather just buy a book and read on my leisure, learn from an experienced professional on the job, or just google it rather than go through the grind of being a student along with working. (Or in this case playing a sport, which I'm sure takes up just as much time and focus)
I'm in the .000000000001%-that's why I majored in history, lol.
I agree that this situation may be unique considering the extent and timing of the injury and his elevated draft status. However, if Meyer doesn't nip this trend in the bud, it will eventually lead to a loss of morale and camaraderie and, ultimately, institutional control.
A possible solution....
When a HS athlete is in his senior year an offer from ANY school should be your choices are (pick one) :
1. You come here for 2 years, play football. You will be compensated 50k year. After the 2 year commitment you are free to pursue play at the next level AT YOUR OWN RISK. If you get drafted or signed to a team...good for you. If you don't...try next year. The school is absolved of any commitment.
2. You commit to the school for 4 years to attain your degree and play football.
In all honesty, in a non-playoff game, I'd rather see next year's players get lots of experience. So if some senior or draft-eligible guy wants to sit it out, so be it.
You apparently aren't on the screaming hysteria threads that populate football Saturday's on here. Let's play say, LSU without any starters in a New Years Eve bowl. Won't that be a fun game to watch.
I truly don't get the whole well if it's a playoff game he should play and if not it's meaningless. In all honesty, how many millions of dollars do you think a NC ring is worth to these kids? I mean if he's willing to sit for a bowl game to protect himself why play in a playoff game that he is not getting paid for. It's all about the money ain't it? Why take the risk of getting hurt just to make fans happy or for some ring? Why should a sure-fire high round draft pick play his jr year at all? I guess in some fans minds they don't really care what the record is or if they win a bowl game. All of these games matter in the grand scheme of things. Winning breeds winning, it helps in recruiting. There are no meaningless games.
I hope the ncaa figures out a way to stop it before it gets out of control completely. Having players sign a letter of intent that said they agree to stay for a minimum of three years and to compete to the best of their ability until the season ends might help. I know they could always fake injury to get around it. I don't know what the answer is but I do believe that something needs to be done to protect the game.
Bosa's injury was serious enough that it required surgery and a long rehab. Even if he is 100% healed in six to eight weeks, he won't be 100% back to former form because he won't have been taking snaps, getting hit, etc. His case is actually understandable, and personally, I think him leaving school and moving on is not only best for him, but best for the team also. You can't have someone on the sidelines , choosing to sit out when they have been cleared to start practicing , because they want to focus on rehabbing and working with an agent,(which they cannot do per NCAA) etc. to get the best draft position. Bosa's great, but now he will have almost an entire year's gap between playing and getting drafted, along with an injury and rehab notes. Teams are going to need to see a lot of professional level work from him outside of college to be ready to draft him high. So his decision is one that is best for him for the circumstances.
But this was the poison that was going to come along with the CFP. And more so with college teams and fans being so invested in HS rating's wars and who has the #1 team signed. You sign a bunch of five stars, you are signing player's who are not truly vested in going to college, earning a degree and playing for winning seasons. OSU is a means to their NFL career, and that's it.
We have now had a four or five seasons in which we have signed a top five class and have gotten to watch the team lose six to a dozen players every year to the draft. OSU is constantly playing with few seniors, a few more juniors and a whole bunch of sophomores and redshirt freshman who have a dozen 4 and 5 stars planning for the NFL. Urban may deny in press conferences that OSU has become an NFL factory, but we are. At some point, the precarious balance between a strong team work ethic, experienced players, and talent is going to invert and crash the program and we are getting glimpses of it now.
Just as the NBA is being forced to step up to developing their own program for super talented HS stars, so will the NFL. I hope they do it before college football is wrecked at the high level.
I think Bosa is way different. It wasn't a certainty that he was able to come back this season as it was.
It does pose an interesting question though. What is more important for the future of the school? A bowl win or a (let's say) top 5 draft pick?
Ward was drafted 4th and is the front runner for Defensive ROY. That may be worth more to sell recruits than a bowl game victory.
Most definitely the NFL success, followed by national championships won. Bowl wins, even the Rose Bowl, probably don't resonate much, if at all, with recruits.
As long as it's non-playoff games we are talking about missing. Denzel sitting out a relatively inconsequential NY6 game to become a top 5 pick and DROY candidate is a net gain. What if we start to see players sitting out playoffs/rivalry games, though? I'm not saying that's what this is... I'm not Bosa's doctor. But, it does raise the possibility.
"The Brotherhood" only consists of players who are not a first round pick.
Listen to the music.
I think a more relevant comparison with the computer programmer getting over a job with Google was if the student was on a semester long group project and he left mid way through the project and therefore caused his group mates to get a B instead of an A. Does the student owe his group mates finishing the project or no?
As with everything in life, follow the money. That is why they are leaving/sitting out. Only way to stop it is free market/capitalism. Limited to no rules of paying players, agents, contracts, etc. I don't think we want to go down that road.
This trend will only get worse. Soon picks will be sitting out a whole year. But the bottom line is nothing will change, cause this effects a small % of players. It only seems more widespread to us because we have the best of the best talent NFL teams want year in and year out.
Maybe the only thing that could change this is restructuring the draft to after two years of college, teams can draft rights to a player, but the kid stays in college for the third. Almost like a reverse supplemental draft.
Players skip bowl games to not get injured. Bosa is already seriously injured and would have been the subject of "is he fully healed" questions the rest of the year, anyway. I'm not sure how people are conflating a player sitting out a bowl game due to the injury risk and an injured player deciding to make sure the healing process is not impeded, given his massive playing and earning potential at the next level.
My question is, where do you guys think the line is drawn?
While there is no minimum age for professional football players, the NFL mandates that you must be out of high school for at least three years before you are eligible to play.
I am thinking this is where the line is drawn. Especially if you are pretty much guaranteed to get first round draft pick status. They are in college to get jobs, and if they get have the opportunity to make a lifetime worth of salary for their first gig out of college, then who the hell are we to say they shouldn't.
The lord of brevity.
This trend, from a fan perspective, is probably harder to embrace for us old bastards. You know, those of us that were around before kids could enter the draft early. With the decision by the NFL to allow juniors to enter the draft, CFB became, essentially, the "Minor League". It's particularly difficult for people like me that have long lost interest in the NFL and once the kids move on that's it.
Understand I do not blame these kids. All that money isn't a thing you can really consider risking. The NFL has changed CFB and not for the better. The player find themselves financially abused by the NCAA and their individual institutions. At the same time the best players have been turned into mercenaries working their way through college ball to maximize their draft potential and little else. The equation is simple, the more successful the program the more mercenary it is. So get used to it with our team.
I understand the players perspective and cannot take issue with it no matter how much I want to. But I can take issue with the whores that operate these CFB programs and the NFL for making the game so much less than it used to be all to squeeze more dollars out of it.
Scarlett & Gray > Blue and Gold
The Conferences/Networks add more games going deeper into the season to make more money exposing players to a greater chance of injury.I don't blame them,look at what the networks,programs,coaches,announcers make.Ask Jaylon Smith or Jake Butt how much coin they lost getting injured in their last games.
Rare situation with a guarentee top 3 pick. Most players still have a shot to improve their stock. Why settle as top 20 for D.Jones when a huge run in the playoff could push you into the top 10 or 5 even? We got hit with an extremely rare thing 2 years in a row. Comes with the territory of recruiting great and producing results.
My biggest complaint is why announce this this week? We are running on fumes right now and this is a mild distraction. Why not let the team and players hold out hope? Oh well.. Disappointing college career for me now which sucks
He is pulling out of college. You think people aren’t going to notice? Someone would find his email removed from the university within 24 hours and have it posted.
Earle’s target practice
These kids worked their asses off and sacrificed a lot to earn what they have coming to them. No hard feelings from me. Sucks as a fan because you want to watch them play but I’m not telling another man how to spend his money. If they are projected to go in the NFL then they earned a high paying job offer. If that’s sad then something is wrong with society.
The issue, as I see it, is that Bowl games are a joke. When there were 6 or 7 bowls, they were kind of like playing for a title and you cared about getting there. When you have a crappy season and get to the Gator Bowl, why not sit? There's nothing to gain by playing in it.
I think the precedent for skipping out on bowl games to risk injury started as a result of the hellacious ACL injury suffered by Jaylon Smith, Notre Dame, against our Buckeyes in 2015. Jaylon, pre-draft, was considered to be a top 5 pick. His injury cost him huge guaranteed money as he was drafted in the 2nd round by the Cowboys. Like other contributors, I believe that no athlete would sit out a game if their team made it to the playoffs. However, if it's a non-playoff bowl, sitting out will trend up, again, for the elite, probable 1st round draft pick. I'm just hoping that what people were suggesting Leonard Fournette, LSU rb, would do his junior year; that is, sit out, declare for the draft, and not risk injury. Is that day on the horizon? Circumstances could play a big part. Ex: A youngster named Ed Oliver (Houston) was a 1st team All-American, both as a true frosh and soph. This is his 3rd year. Driven by a desire to be a high NFL draft pick why would he risk injury by playing a "meaningless" 3rd year? Why not sign with an agent, join a top-flight Combine development program and prepare for your future as an NFL player. Sadly, this scene may actually happen. Nick's injury and subsequent decision I fully understand and support.
This is different from the Ward situation because Ward wasn't coming back from an injury. Ward is just a bitch.
Are some on here really questioning the decisions of a football player that was hurt during a game? I don't remember Bosa taking plays off while playing so I won't assume that he is healthy and just skipping out on the rest of the season.
There's 85 scholarship football players and walk ons. There's a depth chart for a reason. If a few of these players get a chance at generational wealth then they need to do whatever they need to secure it. In Nick Bosa's case he probably would have been better off not playing at all this year. But he was forced too by ridiculous rules that ensure NCAA football is a free farm system for the NFL. NB getting hurt early in the year, getting his 3rd year, and having time to get healthy and prepare is a blessing for him.
He of course could have played all year, stayed healthy and dominated. Got drafted early and helped OSU reach all of its team goals. This would be, I assume, what we would all prefer. But he's done everything required of him to enter the NFL and now it's about Nick not the Bucks.. The Bosa's did more for OSU than OSU did for the Bosa's. It was great to watch them on Saturday and will be even better watching them on Sunday. Beat Purdue
At the end of the day, why do we care so much if a 5 star kid from Florida comes to OSU to prepare for the NFL or goes to Alabama or Notre Dame to do the same thing. It really has no effect on our lives, other than to say he chose a school I care for over one I don't. I am really beginning to question why I've invested so much emotionally over the past 50 years or so watching kids play a game. I love watching football played well, but why do I care who wins? Am I losing my mind? Or am I finally starting to see things as they really are?
My life used to revolve around football. But, actually, I think I'm going the same direction as you. I think I just got too busy and/or stressed in life at some point and just don't get invested like I used to. I like following the Buckeyes, I'm still an amped-up fan watching them, I like to relax with a late night Pac12 game, and that's about it. But, I'm not crushed by losses anymore. I don't like them, but give me 15 minutes Monday morning and I'll have a new crisis on my hands to deal with.
Do we forget that Jaylon Smith tore his ACL & LCL in a meaningless Fiesta Bowl game?
Thats why you do it.
How dare these kids put themselves above their schools ability to make money off them without giving them any of it.
"Let me quote the late great Cornel Sanders, I'm to drunk to taste this chicken"
After watching Jaylon Smith, Marcus Lattimore, Jake Butt and Willis McGahee lose millions of dollars by getting hurt before the draft, I will never fault a kid for sitting out. There is a fine line between earning enough money in the NFL in a few short years to live comfortably for the rest of your life and having to go out and get a job for 50 years like the rest of us. Its just not my place as a fan sitting on a couch to criticize them. They owe me nothing.
So players should just quit as soon as they get a draft ranking in the first three rounds and not play the rest of the year. Bosa was a first rounder before the season started, so he should have just quit school and trained on his own? Hell, he was a top three rounds after his frosh year, should have just packed it in I guess.
Not remotely close to what I said. Simply said it isnt my place to criticize whatever they do. Nick owes me nothing. He owes me no explanation no reasoning and certainly no apology for whatever he chooses to do. It isnt my money at stake.
So he deserves the cheers when he plays but not the jeers when he quits?
Once again not what I said. Not my place to cheer or jeer. It isnt my money on the line and it isnt my decision to make. You can feel free to jeer the guy for “quitting” if you would like however it isnt your decision to make nor is it your money on the line either.
No, this is a rare occurrence in which a potential top 5 pick (less than 1/10 of 1% of CFB players) was injured with a specific injury which is difficult to heal. He wouldn't have been back before late December, and even then, he may not have been well enough to contribute. The injury turned out to be season ending, and in his case, career ending.
It really wasn't a decision for him. If he could've played with minimal risk, he would have. The original 8 week time frame was unrealistic based on his evaluation he had this morning.
Some will.. Some won't.. I'm a realist. The Playoff has changed the whole dynamic of the bowls.. If a top player is not in the playoffs, I expect them to leave.. There is too much money at risk. That being said I am grateful for being able to enjoy them while they are here.
The question is, why do people go to college? 99 times out of 100 it is to prepare them for a career. Whether that is academic, athletic, or some other form of performance, it is about preparation for the next step which is earning a living. I don't understand why people get upset with someone that says I have received enough training and believe I am ready to embark on my career. Every Buckeye player in that locker room comes in with the same goals, perform well, earn a starting position early, and get drafted. Oh yeah, let's win too because that makes this experience more fun. Most don't achieve the goal but they don't hold it against the ones that do and leave early. It isn't looked at as quitting on them, it is viewed as glad you reached the goal.
To use baseball as an example, Nick Bosa just got an October call-up to the majors. His triple-A squad was in the hunt for a championship but the big club needed him more. Sorry triple-A. You can make do with what you have left.
The real question is who gets called up next? Campbell, Weber, Jordan, Haskins, Sheffield? If Bosa can get called up, why not the rest? What if they collectively decide to sit out the playoffs? If one or two sit, why not the others? And if you don't blame Nick, can you blame the rest? Does Nick deserve the money more than Sheffield? More than Haskins?
I don't blame the players at all. The reality is that colleges are the de facto minor leagues for football. If real minor league football teams were out there, prepping players for the NFL, I think there would be many kids choosing that route instead of going to "play school."
However, to change it, there has to be a way for top 10 or top 20 kids to be insured, especially for anthing short of the national championship. There is just way, way too much for kids to lose.
The other thing is that I really feel big time football and basketball schools are using the kids, and I don't like it. There just is something wrong about the obscene amounts of money, and none of it going to the kids, because they are "amateurs."
Kids start abandoning their life long friends when they transfer high schools so this is just an extension of that trend. Believe it or not, there are employees that care about their companies, their co-workers to the point that they don't take higher paying jobs at other companies. In this case, since the recovery basically ends the season, it's different in my eyes. I, personally would never consider hiding on the sidelines and stabbing my teammates in the back by not playing a bowl game like some players.
With this, though, the proper analogy would be caring about the company and co-workers so much that you refuse a paid ]osition to stay in an unpaid internship (or an internship with a little stipend).
As long as the paid position comes with a salary in the 10s of millions! LOL
Yeah, I'm surprised guys like Ed Oliver and others around the country don't do this more often. I like that they don't, but it is surprising. My guess is it will soon be more normal than we want it to be.
Fans are idiots and have an inflated sense of their importance to the program (those who criticize these decisions, anyway).
Did you all catch Bosa's dad's comments later this afternoon that Nick wouldn't have been back before the bowl season at the earliest? And even then, he wouldn't have been back to 100% in terms of game conditioning. This literally wasn't a "decision" for him. The November time frame we initially heard was overly optimistic. This was really the only possible outcome. Get off your high horses, this isn't about us as fans.
Bosa played as hard as anybody to ever put on the scarlett and grey. if you think he didn't love this team, you're not paying attention.
Who is the idiot? Without the fans there is no money. Without the money there is no elite program. Without an elite program there is no NFL career for the players. Let the players play in an empty stadium and see how that makes them feel. Saban gets how important the fans are. You obviously do not.
And how is it you know the November time frame was overly optimistic Dr. Cesix? My research indicates 6 weeks is a normal recovery time for a core muscle injury. Hard to care about a team if the players only care about themselves. Like Cardale, apparently Nick "didn't come to play school." So he withdrew from school altogether.
I do believe that the times are changing. This may be more normal moving forward regardless of what we all think or feel about it. It sucks that we're the ones breaking it in, but this might just be how third year dominating players do things in the new era. We recruit them telling them we have a path to the NFL, so they're going to take that path as easy as possible. I never thought Nick Bosa would be the first healthy scratch from the playoffs. But if we take care of business and he is healed by late December, then there you have it.
Without knowing the specifics of Nick's injury it would be hard for any outsider to confidently state how long Nick's recovery should take. The only information we've been privy to is that at the time of the injury, Nick had already been dealing with some (likely) core strain and at that time he suffered a groin/core injury- presumably a sports hernia. Even knowing that, the range of severity varies drastically- no two injuries are exactly the same, so neither are any two surgeries or rehab courses. That's why doctors give ranges on recovery periods- and a quick search reveals "most" athletes can return in 6-12 weeks. Which means, depending on the injury, some might be able to return before that, and some after.
It's all very general outlooks. Not to mention, it's a lot more difficult to achieve the level of recovery required for an Ohio State defensive end than most other athletes.
Exactly. 10-12 weeks is what John Bosa said, but that's just a general guideline. We're not talking about trying to come back to play beer league softball here. He would need to be in good enough shape and strong enough to push around 300+ lb weight room freak offensive linemen without risking reinjury. He made the only choice he really had.
His dad said the time frame was 12 weeks, genius. Pay attention. And fans are important, but not in individual player's lives and futures. You don't matter to Nick Bosa or Nick Bosa's future. Deal with it.
Lots of debate here -- lots of good points.
Here is a fact to ponder, though: When you combine the careers of Joey and Nick Bosa, in an ideal world, we would have had them play (and had their services) for 8 years.
With all due respect to Nick's injury this year......when you combine the total, it equals less than 5 of the possible 8 since 2013.
That's a big void to fill and it helps explain why teams like Clemson and Alabama have created a juggernaut with experienced linemen on both sides of the ball. Our young 2s and 3s on Saturday got pushed around by a middling Minnesota team. Imagine how they'd fare against elite competition.
You can't have it both ways it now seems. Urban Meyer has dominated the 4th Thursday night in April. Dabo Swinney and Nick Saban are dominating the second Monday in January. Which one do you want?
In whose ideal world ?
In my ideal world a player could declare for the draft when he wanted and if a team deemed him worthy they’d select him.
We didn’t get cheated out of 2 1/2 years of Bosas. We were fortunate to have 5 1/2 years of them.
We didn’t get cheated out of 2 1/2 years of Bosas. We were fortunate to have 5 1/2 years of them.
Depends on your point of view. I am not denying that the Bosas and those like them (not many of them) did what was best for them and it reflects the new normal. But if you really believe this football program wasn't "cheated out of 2/12 years of Bosas"......remind me of that when this D line is dominated by a veteran O line that walks all over them -- and isn't named Minnesota. I am going at this from a purely football standpoint. If you want to do so from a social and economic one, that is fine. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong. Just different points of view.
The only way we were "cheated out of 2/12 years of Bosas" is if you believe either Bosa actually owes us anything. They don't, so we certainly weren't "cheated" out of anything. Does it make our team worse? Absolutely. Not sure what that has do with "cheating" us though.
I don't think owners would care if a player were to skip his entire junior year to train if that player had already been penciled in as a top draft pick. Less wear and tear on the player. I think fans might prefer the players that are playing timidly/half-assed in order not to get hurt to skip entirely. Jadaveon Clowney and our own Bradley Roby played that way their last seasons.
This may be the new normal. In my view, the only way to compensate for it is to increase the number of scholarships we're able to offer so teams can build more depth ar positions that may be depleted from students foregoing their junior year.
Trend?? Exactly how many players have sat out part of a season when healthy?
How many players have sat out a bowl game?
How many have sat out of a league championship game or college football playoff game?
Total up all the above and it’s not even a dozen
The only way to slow this down at all is to allow players to profit off their own likeness while in college. If the NCAA refuses to let players earn what they're worth in college then it forces them to focus on the future.
Don't blame the players. Blame the NCAA
Upvote x 1000
I'm sorry but anyone saying that any bowl game outside the CFP is pointless is just repeating the same drivel that butthurt Booger was spouting last December. He also said they shouldn't even count towards a team's record (partly because the SEC looked poor last winter outside of their playoff teams and the B1G went undefeated save TTUN), which I believe to be total shit. If the bulk of players and fans start to believe they're worthless scrimmages, we'll start to see fewer bowls... which is generally OK by me, but it'll force them to reconsider the CFP, that's for sure. I would expect the CFP to go to 8 or 16 to keep the Wards of the world in games to draw viewership, sell tickets, etc. That being said, NFL preseason games make money, and spring games draw 40-100k fans around the country, so who knows, but I won't be very inclined to watch glorified "next year's team" games that don't include the Buckeyes.
Consider March Madness. Not a single player skips that tournament. I don't think many skip the NIT, but then again if your team is in the NIT you are probably not leaving early... we are headed to a similar system with 2 tiers of bowls. We're already 1 foot out the door already.
I just watched today's College Football Live, and there's a segment asking whether Saban should bench / sit Tua ahead of the LSU game because he means too much to the team. Good grief, I can't even.... college sports are becoming as bad or worse than the pro garbage, and ESPN is leading the charge on some of it.
The goal is NFL from day one. Why is this even a question?
Because that points to what has been commonly thought of at Ohio State -- fairly or unfairly to an even greater degree than other "elite" cf programs: "it's all about me and my goals -- not the team's". It's why Ohio State loses to teams like Michigan State and Iowa. The guy running this semi-pro farm team has one national championship to show for for this "NFL from day one" program. Which is why Paul Finebaum says Meyer has under-achieved.....and why he has a point, despite the many (including me) in Buckeye Nation who think of Paul as an ass-hat. Meyer has chosen to dominate the first night of the draft....while as I posted earlier, Saban and Swinney are dominating in January. Choose your poison.
Would you say that Swinney has underachieved at Clemson? 1 title in ~10 years there despite consistently excellent recruiting prowess. Not to mention, an easier path to the playoff in the ACC and on the backs of a pretty special QB (which we got to witness firsthand, unfortunately).
I'd argue the reality of it is that winning a national championship is just plain hard. Takes a lot of work no doubt, a lot of skill and talent, but also sometimes the football just has to bounce the right way. That Ohio State has been consistently in the hunt for playoff berths (while playing in the meatgrinder B1G East) is a testament to how well Urbs has this program humming!
I'd agree that perhaps the program atmosphere/ethos feels a little different than elsewhere (tons of early entrants, focus on NFL, etc.), but that could be I don't follow those other programs nearly as closely. I'm sure Dabo or Saban also tout their programs as means to get to the NFL as well. What would your solution be as far as running the program/recruiting differently?
Fair points -- but I am not going to throw shade at Swinney -- a guy who has beaten Meyer twice in the past 5 years and once so badly, it destroyed the myth that "given 6 weeks to prepare, Meyer was lethal." And yes, winning a NC is hard, but in all fairness, despite OSU's being "in the hunt", they are still (arguably) a peg below Alabama and Clemson in pecking order.
What would I do differently? Not sure, to be honest. Frankly, it isn't my problem to solve. That is what Meyer gets paid $ 6M a year to figure out. What I do know is that Urban Meyer was brought in to take Ohio State to levels beyond that which Jim Tressel was able to achieve -- namely beat the SEC at their own game. He did that once. He had a great opportunity to follow that up in 2015, but his kids really didn't care -- focusing almost soley on their touches and getting enough film for NFL scouts. Don't take my word for it -- ask them.
Bottom line is.....we all need to be careful what we wish for. If you want Meyer to recruit kids, especially from out-of-state who look at Ohio State as their ticket to the NFL.....and nothing other than that, then don't complain when the Bosas, and so many others, make the decisions that they do.
I find it interesting that many people keep using the term selfish fan, that Nick Bosa doesn't owe us anything and that he has to do whats best for him. I agree with these statements in some ways, but the other side of the coin is that as football fans we are the ones that make chasing those million dollar contracts possible. That money doesn't appear out of thin air it comes from the pockets of fans. Sure sports are entertainment, but part of what makes them entertaining is the idea of comaraderie and team. As fans we feel like part of the brotherhood that is "our" team and that makes the games more entertaining to watch. I don't know about football fans in general but I watch very few games that my favorite teams aren't playing in. If the fans begin to believe that the players don't care about their teams, I think the long term impact is that this behavior diminishes the fan bases, and if the fan bases are diminished those massive contracts eventually wont be there to chase anymore. People rarely applaud the CEO's of large companies for making short sided decisions that result in them becoming more wealthy, while long term hurting their employees (teamates) and shareholders (fans). Im not saying that this is exactly what Nick Bosa is doing but I do see some paralells in this type of behavior. I dont know the specifics of his injury or his decision so I'm not casting judgement on him in particular but if this type of behavior becomes prevalent, the sport may hurt long term. I think what makes the decision so difficult is because the decision he is making is beneficial to himself but if everyone in his position made that same decision there would be broader consequences.
I highly doubt this turns into some kind of huge epidemic. Nobody on the team is going to up and stop playing to protect their draft stock in the middle of the season, especially when they're in contention for the CFP.
Bosa is a case where he got injured pretty significantly, and nobody knew for sure when or even if he'd come back this season. I guess now his dad said that he'd have been out until December, leaving only the bowl game(s). I could see a guy deciding to just go ahead and prep for the draft instead of playing in 1, maybe 2 games tops.
Ward is one of many that sat out a bowl game that wasn't a playoff game. I seriously doubt any kid that is on a playoff team would sit out the playoffs. Ward would have played if OSU got in last year, and nobody will sit if OSU gets in this year.
I thought Roby was still hurt. Could he have played in that Orange Bowl?
Class of 2010.
A sadder trend- fans bitching about players leaving early after giving at least three years to the program. Just because they didn't start for three years due to development or injury dow not mean they did not put in the hard work while attending class and staying out of trouble.
Such lofty standards here, go to class and not commit a crime, how can they rise to these expectations.
I think the most logical thing that will happen is the NFL changing its early entry rule to allow 2nd-year guys to enter the draft. Bosa would have been drafted earlier this year along with Hubbard, Lewis, and Holmes if he was allowed to enter. Guys who are destined to be drafted shouldnt be forced to come back if they dont really want to.
I don't really think that is a good idea, it's not that the players shouldn't go to the draft, but by taking second year players, the NFL has a better chance of drafting a bust, and eventually I think that hurts the shield. I look at it like the NBA, for every Kobe you get 10 piles of poo, ultimately making the teams that draft them garbage for five years.
I don't begrudge a player for wanting to be in the NFL, but drafting sophomores will result in an even shittier to watch NFL.
Does anybody get excited for actual NFL games anymore? Or is it all secondary to betting and fantasy?
I just can't dial up any emotion for any NFL outcome one way or another. It feels like a stale product, the game experience is getting worse, and the NFL brand is dying. Put the poor thing (and Cleveveland brown fans- sorry LOL) outta their misery already!
In its place, I propose...drumroll wait for it...The NCAA Alumni League!!! (No affiliation with the NCAA and I'm open to other suggestions). Watch your favorite stars continue playing together on Sundays- Ohio State pro buckeyes first coach? I say call up the senator!
Give teams to the top 30 or so squads, have 10 or so more "regional" schools for the others! Watch the buckeyes win CFP and professionally! Never again wonder what it might look like watching bookend bosas in the S&G! :D
We'll figure out cumpensation practices and all that legal stuff later.
I like watching it, not sure excited is the right word but I enjoy watching it still when I get the chance to do so. It is not the same as the college atmosphere but the college game has its issues too.
Redzone aka NFL crack is gotta give them that one!
I've been saying the NFL isn't that fun to watch anymore for several years, but this year has actually been better in some ways. The roughing the passer stuff being the exception. But if you watched the Sunday Night and Monday Night games this week, you saw some very exciting games.
The NFL is more boring than golf or bowling.
its not a sad trend at all. Ill take all the guys we can get who have the potential to do this. Next man up, those with more good next men, win. We are usually that guy.
Bosas year was going to be epic and i feel sorry for him and the college football world that didnt get to see it happen way more than i feel bad for the game of football being effected by young men making their own decisions.
Figured it out- never mind.