Talent, Leadership, Coaching or Experience

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BuckeyeIn NY's picture

I pose the question to Bucknuts readers, is this a talent, coaching or experience issue?

HS
BigBuckeye1976's picture

+1 for the gif... we could use Bobby Bouchard

BigBuckeye says Go Bucks
Muck Fichigan!!!

HS
Defiance's picture

Thanks for the post BB76!

IMHO, it's a combination of all three but it's lead by experience.

Same coaches (in most cases), similar talent (in some/most cases) but it's the experience you have to earn on the field.

Being a fan of NCAA pigskin, it's a lesson one has to learn early and that is simply that these kids are in Columbus for a short span of time and they will move on in three/four years and will be replaced.

With them they take their talent but more importantly, their experience.

These players will be replaced by a younger player who may/may not have the same level of talent but said player will be required to go through some trials and tribulations which will yield that experience that is lost when a younger player steps into the mix.

I think we all would agree that the issues MUST be fixed for this team to achieve their ultimate goal.

As far as the last sentence, the talent and experience are both being tested and thus far have a perfect mark at 7-0. Now all the games have not been blowouts where the 2nd/3rd string are in by halftime BUT I propose to you that this may be a good thing. I say simply because these younger players are having to grind for 60 minutes (in some/most cases) and that is developing a team that relies on each other when the going gets tough. I'd much prefer a battle tested team that has won some close games, had to come back in a couple of games, suffered and battled through injuries where next man up has been tested and played in some hostile environments and come out with a W. These teams stand up when the going gets tough and our Buckeyes are one of those teams right now. Steel sharpens steel!!

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

HS
BigBuckeye1976's picture

Very nice comment (no sarcasm). As I read your comment I was reminded of our 2002 team... interesting points for sure

BigBuckeye says Go Bucks
Muck Fichigan!!!

HS
Defiance's picture

The 2002 version of our Ohio State Buckeyes is exactly what I'm talking about, nice call.

They kept you on the edge of your seat and won some very close games and came from behind more than once.

If I remember correctly, didn't they win a Natty against one of those Florida teams...

2018 just has that same feel to it and I'd be fine with an ending that matches that 2002 squad!!

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

HS
Elks' comb over's picture

Can add leadership to the list. Something else I think the team is missing.

“Megadeth >>> Metallica” - Alum 2019. I couldn’t agree more.

HS
BigBuckeye1976's picture

That absolutely should have been added to the list and I will add that point to the topic title.

BigBuckeye says Go Bucks
Muck Fichigan!!!

HS
UAGoldenbear84's picture

As I look at this year's Buckeye team...like you said leadership seems to be non-existent.  Don't get me wrong...we have leaders that lead by example:  Bosa, Haskins etc.  I think what we need is "that" guy who isn't afraid to get in the faces of his teammates.  Do a little ranting and raving....rile up the troops.  Whether he is a senior starter or a 2nd string long snapper.  We need that vocal leader....I just don't see him on this roster.

HS
BigBuckeye1976's picture

As Urbs said in his 1st season, "we need the juice!!!"

BigBuckeye says Go Bucks
Muck Fichigan!!!

HS
Earle's picture

Axe leukemia!
#Poppystrong

HS
BuckIDave's picture

I'm going by the philosophy that every team has a weakness or two, so it's up to the coaching staff and players to exploit whatever weakness the opponent has, and play to your strengths, minimizing your own weaknesses. If the players and coaches do that, they will be B10 champions.

HS
BengalBuck's picture

This is a solution looking for a problem; couldn't we just pay them more...?

Neil Armstrong lied to me...

HS
BUCKAROOTIMESTWO's picture

Define “Leadership” someone as it pertains to this Team and Football.

HS
Buck 1961's picture

Youth, Injuries and inexperience!  Go Bucks!

HS
allinosu's picture

I don't know but watching Baker Sunday after seeing him out of position a lot last year, makes me wonder if it's the system.

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

The issues with defense seem to be driving us some Buckeye fans bonkers to be irrational every Saturday. The forums explode after every game with disgruntle insane fans making valid idiotic comments about their observations and it seems as though patience is wearing thin. 

FTOFY

Fixed the OP for you.

I realize this was a long time ago and to some in a galaxy far far away, but its apropos to who was honored at last Saturday's game.  In 1968, Ohio State had one of their most successful teams in history.  Beating the numbers 1, 2 and 4 teams in the country on their way to the Mythical, yet unanimous National Championship (sorry Penn State), Ohio State was one of the youngest yet greatest teams of all time.  The following year, with most of the team back, Ohio State was the victim of what many at the time called the "Upset of the Century".  Woody always called the 1969 team the most talented he ever had. 

1970 was a strange year.  Just like Bo did in 1969 to start the 10 Year War, Woody spent the entire offseason and every practice focused on one thing and one thing only: Revenge.  This time against the weasels. The entire summer was spent game planning for November 21, 1970.  Game planning?  It consisted of weeks like "What can we do against Illinois to mislead the weasels?"  Despite opening the season at #1, Ohio State dropped out of the top spot in late October, after only beating a shitty Illinois team 48-29.  giving up 29 points to a team that would finish the year 3-7-0.  After beating #20 Northwestern only 24-10 the following week, they fell to #3.  

With the weasels looming on the horizon, the good guys travelled to West Lafayette to play the 3-5 Purdue Boilermakers.  It took a vintage Jack Tatum stop on the goal line late in the 4th quarter, when he timed his leap on 4th and goal at the Ohio State 2 yard line to meet Otis Armstrong in the air over the line of scrimmage.  Otis landed on the 5 and Ohio State survived 10-7.  Afterwards, the Buckeyes dropped to number 5.  To Woody and the team, it didn't matter.  They were focused on one game only; the one coming the following week.  The weasels were actualy ranked AHEAD of Ohio State at number 4 coming into that game; but had no chance as the supremely talented Buckeyes finally put it all together and knocked TTUN out of the ranks of the unbeatens with a thoroughly convincing (except for the score) 20-9 victory and finish the regular season as undefeated and undisputed Big Ten Champs.

The point of this history lesson is that even some of the most talented teams can struggle throughout the year; but as Chief Dan George says in The Outlaw Josey Wales, if you "Endevour to Persevere" you can still accomplish your goals.  So relax.  Watch Enjoy the best football program around win another game.  Savour it.  Because we may never pass this way again.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

HS
NW Buckeye's picture

This! Wish I could invite this 1000 times .

HS
lamplighter's picture

uh not sorry Penn State - glad you beat Kansas in the Orange Bowl (okay, one time that Kansas was actually good)

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
 

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

I know.  I should have typed that in italics to signify sarcasm.  But, I remember those days enough to remember how PSU was ripped for a weak schedule back then.  Paterno complained about it a little, but credit to him, he recognized that as Syracuse and Pitt faded as powers, he needed to do something and led the way to PSU joining the B10.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

HS
NavyBuckeye91's picture

Penn State's schedule was awful that year. Navy had 2 wins, KSU was 4-6, UCLA was 3-7, Miami was 5-5 (and nowhere near being The U), Maryland was 2-8, and Pitt was 1-8. The only teams with winning records PSU beat in the regular season were WVU, Army, BC and Syracuse; none of them had less than 3 losses. KU was the first and only ranked team they played that year.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

HS
Guts's picture

I think it's coaching... we didn't start to look like this until we lost Kerry Commbs and Luke Fickell.

HS
kmp10's picture

Fickell was the DC in 12 and 13 and those defenses were bad. Until Ash came in 14 the defense was not good. Coincidence? Not in my opinion, but it certainly could have been the perfect confluence of coaching, talent, and the players hitting their collegiate peaks. Schiano and Grinch are highly thought of coaches. So is Larry Johnson. The 2013 class was the mother lode for Meyer at Ohio State, the 2014 staff was his best at OSU, and the 14 team peaked at exactly the right time... and Meyer's been trying to remake that magic class and their 2014 season for four years now. It's hard for everyone not named Saba... and it's hard even for him but he's just better at it than the rest. 

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

HS
NavyBuckeye91's picture

Spot on, Kmp10.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

HS
stuckupnorth's picture

Experience is the most over rated thing in college football.You are either an early NFL draft pick or a program guy for the most part. Most teams have 4 year program guys. OSU will always have a young team. Alabama will always have a young team as will Clemson and Georgia. It is the price a team pays for putting 2-3 players in the first round every year, plus a couple 2/3 round guys.We heard the same thing about receivers. They are all upper upper classmen.They have been in the system for 3 years. How much more time do they need.Elite teams put the best players in regardless of class and experience.Leadership from players are over rated as well.I think people want to look to that as some saving grace(JT). If you produce on the field it gives you a "voice". Guys just need to play and win their matchup. Nothing more nothing less.Guts is right it is on coaching. It is their job to lead the team. I think the lack of experience is a crutch for people to use when they want to defend demi god Urban.

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

You're half right.  Experience is important, but not THAT important.  However, physical maturity and fundamental knowledge of the playbook and "how things are done" is very imprtant.  Some people lump that under experience.  That's the difference between between football circa 1968 and today.  The sophistication of the game today in playbook and weight training makes it harder (not impossible) for young people to come in and play.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

HS
stxbuck's picture

How bout them Dawgs on Saturday-you still lusting for THEIR season/roster as opposed to tOSU? Petty jealousy over other programs is a pathetic look for an adult. If you are 14 years old, I can understand that thought process on sports.

HS
stuckupnorth's picture

Whoa whoa whoa. Slow it down. No one is listing after Georgia. I’m simply stating that teams that recruit at a high level will always have young players. The draft eligible ones leave as soon as they can. Man you took that to the extreme.its a comparable team. One that recruits in the top five most years like OSU. Dude sorry to have a football related conversation that didn’t worship OSU and included another team.

HS
RunEddieRun1983's picture

First off, I post on www.elevenwarriors.com... not Bucknuts, they can get some sucknuts for all I care.

I think it's a coaching issue, personally. I don't think Billy Davis is developing the LBs at the rate we're used too. You can't deny the talent in that group given how the Buckeyes recruit, but somehow it's not translating to the field.

From what we've heard, Malik Harrison and Tuf Borland are great leaders for the team, and Pete Werner is coming along in that vein as well. Too early to tell on Baron Browning, and Justin Hilliard is a magnet of leadership on both special teams and when he's in the game at LB.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Well, since Malik didn't play Saturday, it would be unfair to blame him for the perceived failure of the LBs.  Borland has played hurt as he lives up to his name.  Browning is the disappointment for me.  But as we have witnessed 5 stars fail to get their black stripes removed the first month they are on campus, that's not always on the coaches.  I don't know the answer in his case.

I'm more concerned with the poor angles that the safeties take.  I was surprised how much more apparent AND COMMON it is when you see it live from C deck.  tOSU isn't always burned by the poor angles, but when the play is coming towards you in C deck and you watch the safety try to close on the play, its shocking.  Sometimes, the corner or LB finishes the play before one of the culprits is exposed.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

HS
Keze's picture

Talent for me now after 7 games it can not be experience anymore.

Coaching is out for me cause I am seeing the same mental errors week after week unless the coaches are not seeing this which I doubt.

HS
stxbuck's picture

Guess what-injuries and inexperience at various positions happen to EVERY program. Programs like tOSU have the talent and coaching to drive through them regardless. I'd say the bigger problem, from an 11W pov, is Nervous Nellies whining and bitching instead of understanding the flow of seasons, and willfully failing to understand that constant perfection is unobtainable, only a high level of program equilibrium/constant playoff contention. Be a smarter fan.

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

On one level, I agree with you.  But I think that tOSU is in a special situation with all of the early entries into the draft the last few years.  THAT has created an extra challenge which, this year, has exasperated the problem of quality play in the back 7.  Add in another couple of players being hurt and injuries do have an impact.

I'd say the bigger problem, from an 11W pov, is Nervous Nellies whining and bitching instead of understanding the flow of seasons, and willfully failing to understand that constant perfection is unobtainable, only a high level of program equilibrium/constant playoff contention. Be a smarter fan.

THIS!  A thousand times this!  I don't think I have ever agreed with you more.  If you were up here I'd buy you a beer.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

HS
NavyBuckeye91's picture

I think we also need to give credit to a conference that has upped its collective game. Tressel could steamroll his way through the Big Ten with a few notable exceptions. Now you have four Top 25 teams, and that's just in the Big Tean East. There's usually an Iowa or Wisconsin in the West that's also ranked.  Better coaches, better players, tougher games throughout the season.  This is the ACC.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

HS
BUCKEYE3M's picture

 I pose the question to Bucknuts readers, is this a talent, leadership, coaching or experience issue?

It's unrealistic expectations. 

HS
Dorfdepp's picture

I never will forget the play that Tatum made, Not-Todd. I had worked an all-nighter at my government job in D.C., and still was too excited about seeing the Buckeyes on national TV to sleep. If I am not mistaken, OSU was behind 7-3 when Tatum's leap stopped Armstrong, THEN, Woody did what for him was unthinkable: due to the little time remaining, he brought Ron Maciejowski, a pure passer into the game to replace Kern. On, I think, the very first play, Ron completed a forty-yard pass that got the Buckeyes out of the hole, and they continued down the field to score the winning touchdown. I remember that there was a steady drizzle falling throughout the rally, and that Jim Stillwagon sacked the Purdue QB to end the game. Correct me if I have made any errors. It WAS, after all, forty-eight years ago!

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

You remember more of the game than my 12 year old brain registered.  

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

HS
Big 'Ole Buck's picture

I'm not sure if the elite CFB programs have such a thing as "leadership" in today's environment.  The mantra "next man up" is a saying that can inspire those who currently aren't "the man" to work hard and be ready to become the "next man up."  Unfortunately, when that happens time and time again for a myriad of reasons (injuries, early departures, etc) my belief is that most players are not in a particular role for a long enough period to either A. experience leadership from a teammate or B. provide leadership to their teammates.The majority of the players on the field every Saturday for the current Buckeyes team are still learning on the job, and along with that many of those with experience are now injured. 

Someone compared OSU football to UK basketball in another thread.  That poster is taking a lot of heat for that comparison, but he/she is on to something in that OSU has sort of become a "NFL factory" of sorts.  Those Kentucky teams often appear to lack leadership and experience because quite honestly, the team is full of high level talent and it's all the same age.  No mentor, except for Calipari.  Very, very similar to Urban Meyer and how he handles his players from Day 1.  "Next man up" is coach-speak for "The guy in front of you is going to be here for 3 years or less, so your time is coming...very soon..."  It's a recruiting tool more than anything else.  Players want to play, and quite honestly I don't think the great ones care one bit as to whether or not they are looked upon as a leader or not.  Reason being (Bosa case in point) they are going to be multi-millionaires in a very short time.  They don't need that hassle man...and that's just the flat out truth. 

As a fan, I love to see the highly touted recruiting classes filled with talent every single year.  I am also discouraged in knowing that those guys may only play for 1 or 2 years maximum.  In that same UK thread, someone alluded to the roster having a significant lack of Ohio presence at the current time.  I agree, but as fans we cannot have it both ways and if the talent from out of state is better, then that is what I hope shows up in Columbus. 

It's a weird time to be a football fan.  I try to not make too much out of it all, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the defensive issues we are witnessing have far more to do with a lack of experience than anything else.  Look out for these kids if they can keep their record clean....just like Calipari's UK basketball teams come March. 

Go Bucks!

HS