Ohio State Defense Left Searching For Consistency, Improvement After “C-Minus” Performance Versus Indiana

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buckzilla1's picture

We have the guys to do it. 

Hey Cancer! This ass kicking is brought to you by the Guernsey county mafia. Give it Hell 84!

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BMOC_57's picture

They have the ability for sure but do they have the direction?

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sect312's picture

no. Coaching on tackling has regressed five years in the last two. Arm tackling is worse than before FIckell coached the defense.

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Extramedium's picture

they know if they actually tackle someone, there’s a 10% chance they get called for targeting. 

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Beaver's picture

That is a BS excuse for fundamentals that should have been perfected long ago. Missed tackles and poor angles. Being 3,4 and 5 star athletes, someone on that depth chart had to have fundamental coaching at some point in their careers. 

Karl sherrick

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kbab's picture

If that were the case, then every program in the country would have the same issues.

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BuckeyeinFlorida's picture

Halftime adjustments are great. We have coaches in the press box with radio's. Why do we need halftime to make improvements ?

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Silver Sniper's picture

Ramsey also tossed three touchdowns. He did not throw throw an interception for just the second time in six starts this season.

Colin, Harrison intercepted Ramsey on the two-point conversion attempt and ran the ball back to about the 40.  

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

Perhaps he should have said "official" interception. That INT doesn't go into the record books as an INT because a try for two points after a TD is recorded as either an attempt or conversion. No stats are recorded on the play because it isn't considered a play from scrimmage.

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Silver Sniper's picture

Oh, ok, I thought that could be the case once I looked up the official game stats and it didn’t show an INT. That’s kind of a dumb method to keep the stats. Thank you for the info, AZ!

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PhillyNut's picture

Not so sure. Sheffield spent the entire game being lost on the field. They picked on him down to the bone. Wint has no clue what he is doing. The others might be good enough but there are no future 1st round choices in that group, at least not as of now. This idea that 6 games in that the problem is fixable when it has been there all 6 games is just false, there is something deeper going on that a week of practice is not going resolve.

I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!

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Bukirob's picture

After 6 games, you are who you are.  This is a defense with a very good DL and a VERY suspect back 7 The attrition of early departures and graduation losses have finally caught up to us.  This defense plays very well in short spurts but is prone to get gashed.  We will likely win the B1G, get into the play off's and if the D doesnt make HUGE strides in the lead up to the CFP games we will get beat.  If they do then its game on

You WIN with people.

 

 

WW Hayes

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rkylet83's picture

It’s REALLY bad.  The back seven might be the worst I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.  

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infantrybuck's picture

You have a short memory. 2013 was way worse.  We ENDED the season like 110th in pass defense

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Hovenaut's picture

Losing Christian Bryant against Wisconsin early in the season was a blow, but that defense was not up to snuff.

I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...

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rkylet83's picture

The pass coverage may have been worse in 2013 but the rushing defense combined with the bad pass defense is even worse than that.  Hopefully they can right the ship but so far they haven’t shown any signs of learning from their mistakes.  

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Beaver's picture

I have been watching since the 50’s and it is definitely the worst consistantly every game. When almost every defense in the nation has better stats, you would think someone would be accountable to copy any other team since this D scheme does not work at the college level. Being stubborn will just ruin our chances of competing with a top 4 team later on. Too bad Schiano did not get his HC job. We may have had a good D to go with our outstanding O.

Karl sherrick

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Blue Eyed Buckeye's picture

Overreaction Sunday is in full effect.

The secondary had a gigantic 11 passes defended. Where's the pressure on the QB?

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ajktony's picture

I have zero confidence in any part of our D except the dline which even today did not play good outside of Chase Young. Even when we get stops, we give up penalties. Something had better change or Sparty, scUM or Wiscy will catch us slipping.

Still early in the season but I dont have much faith in this D

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Silver Sniper's picture

The missed tackles are just atrocious. JCoop had the RB dead to rights in the backfield and the RB shook him off and gained yards. Werner bounced off the RB. It’s an epidemic. Meanwhile, Indiana had very sure tackling. Even when OSU runners had 1:1 opps in the open field, Indiana was catching them. 

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CptBuckeye24's picture

Indiana felt like they made 75% of their tackles in the open field. Maybe more.

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andretolstoy's picture

I’m not sure we have the LBs and it’s felt. But I think they’re busting tail. 

Our DBs. Well, they’re getting beat practically every play and for some reason really have an aversion to turning to see where the ball is. Or, they just have no idea where the ball or the receiver are. Or, they’re getting juked like all opposing receivers are Michael Thomas. 

I just don’t know. 

If you die before you die, then you won't die when you die. 

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andretolstoy's picture

PS. The BIG has the worst officiating in all of sport. 

If you die before you die, then you won't die when you die. 

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CptBuckeye24's picture

Have you watched the NFL? Every single week, a game is significantly affected by bad calls.

Ask the Browns from last week. The NFL admitted Carr fumbled and should have been a fumble. And look at the 1st down call with Hyde they had and then overturned.

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Hmm. Play like crap, blame the refs....

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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DonTurner's picture

ichigan fans do it all the time ?!?!?!   :)

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Touché. You got me. Not for nothing, but Indy made plenty of their own miscues...just sayin”

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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Beaver's picture

The officiating has been bad, but just another excuse for failure. Our back 7 sucks due to scheme and I hope not talent. I just can not believe it is talent deficiency. 

Karl sherrick

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Silver Sniper's picture

I truly believe that Beaver. There is no way we could have missed on so many talented guys coming out of HS. This is 90% coaching and scheme.

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andretolstoy's picture

I by no means was blaming the officiating on our play. There are two very different issues. 

If you die before you die, then you won't die when you die. 

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FootstepsFalco's picture

You touched on something that drives me crazy.  I really think that they ARE coached to not look back for the ball.  This boggles my mind.  Not sure why you wouldn't turn your head to find the ball when you see the WR's eyes light up?

Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

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Jay_sizzle's picture

Meyer and Coombs emphasize not looking at the ball.. it’s a technique where you use your body to force the WR to work harder for the catch , it requires super physical corners (like we had in the past in Latimore,Conley, Apple, Grant, etc.) and great size and speed. This year tho... we have Okudah and Arnette (who both should be Safeties if we’re being honest) and Wade and Sheffield who are both still bulking up . 

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Extramedium's picture

What boggles the mind is that everyone seems to know that if you don’t look for the ball, the refs treat it like an automatic pass interference without even thinking. How many PI’s do we need?

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BuckeyeDevil's picture

Exactly. It get called PI whether it is or isn't. I don't think that just because a DB doesn't turn his head it means interference but it sure got flagged a lot yesterday. 

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KCAlum's picture

So essentially we are teaching a technique that is against the rules.  AWESOME!  Let's continue and not change due to stubbornness?  Is it the late 70's and Woody still coach?

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kbab's picture

The team would be able to live with an occasional PI because the DBs are looking at the receiver instead of the QB or searching for the ball, if such tactics were actually keeping receivers from getting open. The problem is that they’re still getting open.

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WestSideTower'79's picture

At 6 feet and 195 lbs (listed), Arnette would be a decent sized safety on an elite HS team. Not so much on a B1G champ/CFP qualifier. Our safeties tend to be a little longer and heavier than CBs, ​​but the main differentiator is speed for the corners - - a good reason not to get Sheffield bulked up.  

Player development is weird. As bad as Shef was yesterday, I distinctly recall Conley being consistently worse - - as a freshman. But Shef's a junior and is an absolute physical freak of nature by any measure applied.  Yet in iso press coverage at the 3 yard line yesterday, he played the fade pattern before the snap was even made and the receiver made one stab step to the corner, broke to the post and was open by nearly five yards. And it was the receiver's first TD of the season - - not like he's going to be making any honorable mention B1G teams or going to the combine.  Hell, he's lucky to be on IU's two-deep. Sheffield will go to the combine, put up some crazy numbers but not get drafted until late in Day 2, by some team willing to take a flyer on his athleticism. 'cause he sure ain't no football player.

North until you smell it, west until you step in it

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Chewbucca's picture

The technique is the root of the numerous PI's we are seeing.  The PI's are extending opponent drives when the defense should have been off the field.  It's a circle of failure.  This technique is not currently working with the personnel we have.  There is plenty of  talent in this secondary, so it's time for a reappraisal.

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GOOMBAY's picture

IU didn't have the horses to line up and win it in the trenches. (Elite CFP opponents will)

IU elected to go to 50/50-type passes because the OSU secondary was worth the chance -- and got some big payoffs. (Elite CFP opponents would feast on this)

It's obviously fixable, but this "hangover" victory should be a wake-up for the entire squad.

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BrewskiBuck81's picture

Unless Grinch and Johnson get something fixed in the secondary, Jeff Brohm’s boys at Purdue will have a field day chucking the ball around!  That’s my biggest worry right now in the upcoming few games.  I think that the coaching changes in the secondary are showing their effects right now.  With playing the press man, my only question is why are we giving a free release off the line of scrimmage for the opposing wide receivers?  We need to chuck them at the line and redirect them or slow their get-off.  Also, the pass rush was completely ineffective for the first 3 quarters.......

Ohio by birth, BUCKEYE by the grace of God!

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BMOC_57's picture

I’m trying my best to be positive and hope for the best but this is Week Six.  All that inexperience shouldn’t be a factor at this point.  I can’t help but think the defense isn’t being “coached up” properly. Too many different players look lost and out of position, at times. Please fix it before November!

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Butch_Driveshaft's picture

2015, 2016 we heard all year that the offense was going to be fixed. Short of finally just pounding with Zeke the last 2 games of 2015, nothing was fixed. This defense is what it is and they are going to struggle the rest of the season. 

He owes me 260 bucks vacation pay, and he won't fuckin' pay that, so I figured a handful of chips wasn't too much to ask.

 

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The Rill Dill's picture

We are fed the same lines of shit, season after season after season. 

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JCam061588's picture

The absence of Bosa is was evident the last few weeks. Schiano’s scheme requires pressure on the QB to force him into inaccurate throws. Without Bosa the pressure has been no where near consistent enough & that leaves our DBs on an island.

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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Silver Sniper's picture

Yeah what did Indiana have the greatest blockers of all time? We were not getting close to Ramsey. 

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BuckeyeDevil's picture

It looks like Gilligan's Island to me

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kbab's picture

Partially true, but Bosa was in for the Oregon State and the first half of the TCU game.

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Big E Jarhead's picture

We really struggled with basically Indiana's makeshift receiver Corp. Pryor's return in the 2 nd half was a boost. Tom Allen is hard to watch when he thinks there's a chance.

All in go Buck's!

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GoldenBuckeye's picture

He is next level obnoxious.

The Ohio State University
University of Minnesota

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Furious George 27's picture

The performance is much better than last years game after Penn State. The D made adjustments after half, maybe give them the benefit of coming off a big emotional win without their best defensive player. I think this team has time to improve before it really matters. 

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

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Extramedium's picture

They did come out much better in the second half so it’s possible the first half was a “hangover” from last week.  But if “it” isn’t fixed by now, I don’t know what would suddenly change to fix it when it’s week 6 already. 

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CanadianBuckeyeEh's picture

Enough questions persist, however, that if the problems aren’t solved, Ohio State’s path to its goal of a national championship might not be possible.

That's it exactly. 

I wonder how many of our issues are related to the departure of Kerry Coombs? 

"Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland

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Extramedium's picture

That’s the one thing no one seems to be mentioning.

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Knite's picture

I did in another article, even Luke Fickle coaching up the LBs. The LB coach we have now isn't getting it done.

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Beaver's picture

Looks like all of them.

Karl sherrick

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Zakb911's picture

See what happens.  Besides McSorley running wild and the slant pass break away, the defense vs Penn State was good.  None of the linebackers have showed anything, Harrison was the only person who could run down McSorley, Borland's forced a couple fumbles.  Nobody has consistently looked good.  Were use to at least one superstar LB and CB.  

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Blackcoffee's picture

The days of the superstar lb are over. Soon also the superstar db. Its a brave new world college football offenses. Better team defensive schemmes rule now.

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WestSideTower'79's picture

 "Besides McSorley running wild .  .  ."  That dude accounted for 93% of their offensive yards! A good defensive performance is holding your opponent under 300 total yards, and McSorley had 450 all by himself! We gave him his school's record for yards rushing by a QB, and his passing yards were on the first page of their record book, too! In all-time performances by an opponent, he's on a short list with Tim Biakabatuka and Dave Wilson.

North until you smell it, west until you step in it

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Arsenal7's picture

It's wild to me how Schiano's scheme exposes the positions on the field that are the most vulnerable. We have one consistent corner but we leave them all on islands. Our linebackers are not gap sound but we continue to let the defensive ends fly up field on every play, widening gaps even without good offensive line play. The free safeties have consistently taken bad angles all year but we leave them by themselves at the back of the defense with zero help.

Yes, position coaching is a problem (looking at you, Urban's best man), but you'd think a highly paid and well regarded defensive coordinator could figure out how to at least paper over some of the cracks that the team has.

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DroneBuck's picture

Sadly I have to agree here. We have a coach who believes in 1 on 1 matchups all over the field even when there are obvious weak links & mismatches that are routinely exploited. No adjustments to the scheme, no adjustments to the personnel. I’m starting to think the Tennessee protesters were right, and we’ll be stuck with this stubborn defensive philosophy for a long long time. 

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BuckeyeDevil's picture

I am ok with the philosophy as long as there are the players to make it happen. 

After 6 games I think it is realistic to conclude that we don't have the players to do it. It isn't getting better. 

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BuckminsterFullback's picture

Meyer's first priority is recruiting, and that drives scheme: sign terrific athletes, then play a scheme that works exceptionally well when terrific athletes execute at a high level. I suppose that Meyer and Schiano believe they have the necessary talent, and that it's just a matter of improving execution.

One factor that I think fans underestimate is the amount of time and effort that opposing B1G coaches devote to preparing for OSU. (Nobody wants to be on the wrong end of a 56-0 game.) If you run the same scheme year after year, opposing coaches will eventually find ways to take what the scheme gives them, and I think that's what we're seeing now.

Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.

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WestSideTower'79's picture

"We have one consistent corner .  .  ."

Really? I see a bunch who are consistently beat at the line of scrimmage, always playing catch-up on streaks, never looking back for the ball and seeming to employ the strategy of "let them catch it and hope I can knock it loose". Wade has the best one-on-one cover skills and his role is almost exclusively the slot receiver.

I said this on another article, but I think there's way too much emphasis on rotating players. There's little to no chance of developing the rhythms and cohesion needed for t-e-a-m. In any sport, we hear all the time about how a guy has the talent, he just needs the experience.  Well, it seems tOSU coaching staff thinks that they have SO much talent, that there's no problem spreading all the necessary experience just a little bit thinner.

It doesn't always work that way.  Perfect example: rotating DLs helps from a fatigue standpoint, rotating OLs almost never does from the "unit" standpoint.

North until you smell it, west until you step in it

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Bucks2K18's picture

The defense has got to step it up if there's gonna be any chance to win the championship. Sure, the offense can score points, but we aren't gonna beat Bama if the defense gives up 60 points. Luckily, there's a few tuneup games before we face Michigan State

That's a Buckeye touchdown!

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Extramedium's picture

We will if our offense scores 61.

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Ohio_Against_The_World's picture

Or 69?

When in doubt... Muck Fichigan

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BuckeyeinFlorida's picture

Know when Alabama fine tuned their defensive schemes ? Third week of August.

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jmaglovsky's picture

I wouldn't say that's entirely true.  Bama just gave up 31 to a 1-5 Arkansas team.  

"They couldn't beat me with two Michigan coaches. So they had to come down here and take a coach that I trained."

-Woody Hayes

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WestPalmBucknut's picture

Overall a grade b-. O line to be elite needs to start that way. Not much to complain about other than penalties. Haskins is elite and suspect he won't be here next year, he blows my mind with his touch. 

Defense, no pressure, not minding running lanes, defensive backs continue to fail. Bad angles, not looking back to ball resulting in costly interference penalties, as a former d1 player, you will lose battle every time if you don't know where the ball is. Am I missing something? Seems dbacks are playing blind? We had so much elite talent last four years in secondary and really cannot come up with a reason for the fall off in production? I suspect it might have to do with LB play.

Overall pleased, but if we want to play with the big boys, we need a lot of improvement!

Go bucks

Die a Buckeye

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2morrow's picture

Agree with all but the oline. They are not great. Very inconsistent -  nearly every play, one misses an assignment and that seems to be impacting our running game the most. Haskins looks great but his quick read/release is hiding issues with the oline.

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Nutinpa's picture

The O line is as soft as baby shit.  No need to sugar coat that either, any more.  

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BME_Buckeye's picture

Buckeyes love letting players have career games against us. This defense needs to be corrected. 

Look closely, because the closer you think you are, the less you will actually see.

 

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Brutus_Bully's picture

The defense looks PRE Chris Ash.

I do not at all have the mind of a bully... in my mind bullies are intolerant of contrary opinion, domineering and rather cowardly.

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Ding! Ding! And we have a winner!

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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SalemBuckeye's picture

The first half was the worst passing defense I've seen in 30 years of Ohio State football. Laurinaitis mentioned that the Buckeyes are LAST in ALL college football for giving up plays of 60,70 and 80 yard plays. LAST. LAST. Behind all other teams. The WORST in college football. How can that possibly happen given the talent and coaches. Mind Numbing.

SalemBuckeye

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Buckloving's picture

Think about that for a minute....with all the talent we have

bobbyd

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CanadianBuckeyeEh's picture

the Buckeyes are LAST in ALL college football for giving up plays of 60,70 and 80 yard plays. LAST. LAST. Behind all other teams. The WORST in college football. How can that possibly happen given the talent and coaches

Wow.....  

"Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland

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Nutinpa's picture

Hate to say it, but that supposed talent may be exaggerated......

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jmh286's picture

I really think this was a case of the whole team overlooking Indiana because they expected the talent difference to overcome any missed assignments. Unfortunately for this team, we haven't played anyone on our talent level, so it allows players to recover from missed assignments/have the other team miss an opportunity. This would have been a much different game had Indiana hit a few of the wheel routes that would have been sure TDs. Our attrition due to the NFL draft has made the secondary suspect, but Indiana has had a QB that can make crazy accurate throws that would beat most defenses. Hopefully this game was just a wake up call to this team that they have to bring the A game every week or they could get beat.

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Extramedium's picture

There have been a few wake up calls already. You have to admit they played much better in the second half.  Let’s hope it was just a bad first half thanks to coming out flat.

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BurningRiverBuckeye's picture

If they don’t figure their secondary/LBs out, this defense will unfortunately cost them a game...or 2

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BucknutinNC's picture

The Defense played way better in the 2nd half, I know that's when Pryor returned to the field after having to sit the first half. He seemed to give the D a boost and played really good after what looked horrible from that spot invthe first half. The Defense needs to play consistently all 4 quarters like they did the 2nd half today.

A.E. Porter

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Silver Sniper's picture

Yes credit to Pryor for looking a lot better as the season has progressed. I feel so bad for the young man but Wint is a complete liability out there right now.

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Buckeyedad91's picture

Schiano's scheme is the problem, especially when fundamentals inconsistently executed. Doesn't have Coombs to coach up the talent. Tackling is definitely back to pre-Chris Ash era. "We're going to fix it" coach-speak crap is getting old. You all are getting paid too much to make excuses. Fix it now. Before you lose to a team you shouldn't - Iowa 2017 -and ruin another Championship opportunity.

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TheVictoryBell's picture

Our defense plays with no energy or emotion. Just looks like guys going through the motions. You watch great defenses they fly around, they attack and they have some dog in them. Not seeing that from this defense yet. 

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DroneBuck's picture

This so true. Great defenses swarm to the ball and gang tackle. We arm tackle 1 on 1 and pray the guy doesn’t break loose & go 80 on us.

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Bigmarty's picture

Home crowds often add emotion ...mostly it helps a defense.  Our defense gets little or no emotional help.  I got tired of being told to sit down and not cheer so loud for our defense.  It was so frustrating...I quit going.  Then we give out awards to everybody right when the crowd finally gets into it if they ever do.  Of course that is not the sole cause but it plays a part in why a defense lacks that wild dog type of play.

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KCAlum's picture

Watching on TV the crowd seemed underwhelming, until they got it through their heads that it was a real game and a loss was a real possibility.

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BuckeyeinFlorida's picture

You cheer loudly on 90% of the plays. People who don't want to hear that should watch from their living room.

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TheVictoryBell's picture

I’m with ya on this point. The FOX broadcast actually showed Schiano telling the defense to quit firing up the crowd and do their job. I liked seeing the defense trying to fire up the crowd and show some emotion. 

But I totally agree I wish the Horseshoe was loud again no matter who we’re playing. 

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WestPalmBucknut's picture

In short we will not win against upper tier teams unless we get this second level defense fixed. I suspect our LB support is not helping. Interference penalties is not the answer, I also see somehow our dline is not maintaining their lanes, which probably contributes. Even Chase was way out of his lanes of responsibility. When you have great LB play you can cover a multitude of sins. We have to clean up missed assignments, being out of position and bad angles of attack.

come on guys you can overcome this!

Die a Buckeye

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bucksandsurfing's picture

Not even sure I'd want to be in the playoff right now.  With the way our D is playing, we'll get embarrassed.   Then we'll hear the ridicule that we didn't belong.   

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DroneBuck's picture

Stop that crazy talk. Always take the at-bat. We have Haskins & a WR corps. That’s it.

He can keep us in any game by himself & he’ll probably have to. Our running game is non-existent (OL gets no push). Back 7 is a disaster. But we can force games into a shootout and stand a chance against anyone as long as #7 is our trigger man. **keynote: please stop using Haskins as a battering ram to supplement your horrendous running game Urban. He’s too valuable as a passer to be forcing him into the scrum on worthless running plays.)

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Extramedium's picture

Day and Wilson are calling the plays.  You can’t blame Meyer for the bone-head moves and give Day credit for all the genius calls.

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DroneBuck's picture

You think it’s Ryan Day’s idea to run Dwayne Haskins up the middle?

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Exactly. Seems the O looks just a bit diff from those first few games....

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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stpetebuck's picture

609 yards 7 td’s , yeah they look like shit. Haskins sucks. Meyer Day Wilson are average. 

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Wow. I said all that. Try to be objective instead of getting your shorts in a knot. Day was and is calling plays. First few games he did it w/o Urban around though. Just a thought. 

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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stpetebuck's picture

No offenensr was awesome. Period 

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stpetebuck's picture

Hey 3yards..,

hey, dammit I misread your original post. I thought you were saying “off” instead of “diff”. So dumb on my part. So many complain about not having a perfect game. 

Apologies. 

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

No worries. 

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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allinosu's picture

He has a point. We are still reeling from that 0-31 to Clemson. We would have been better off in the bowl six rather than the fodder fallout of that game. The overall perception of the OSU football took a huge hit. 

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BlackKeys's picture

Secondary is dogshit. I don’t know how long this team can continue to be destroyed through the air and still win.

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bucksandsurfing's picture

This is a different defense when Pryor's in at safety rather than Wint.  Wint is completely lost out there, takes bad angles, and cannot tackle.  Whatever side of the the field the ball is thrown to, Wint runs to the opposite side.  Unbelievable. He has zero awareness of the football.   When Pryor came into the game, we didn't give up nearly as much.  Not saying Pryor solves all our defensive problems, but we're clearly better with Pryor in there.   

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Voldemort's picture

I would say the offense is where it needs to be, six games into the season. The defense is truly a liability at this point. Zero discipline in the secondary. Jahsen Wint should not see the field. The fact that he is, tells you everything you need to know about the secondary unit as a whole.

Coombs is missed.

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DroneBuck's picture

We have other DB’s on scholarship. But the only 2 guys the staff will try at safety are Wint & Pryor. Unbelievable.

Damn you Tennessee !!!

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buckskin's picture

Disagree on the offense. With the number 1 talented roster in college football (per 247 sports), we should be able to run the ball better against Indiana. The O line created little to no holes all day.

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MN Buckeye's picture

While the defense is clearly struggling, the negative comments here make it seem like we lost.

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Brutus_Bully's picture

I think it's people baffled more than just negative. We have a head coach and another legitimate defensive coordinator coaching D and 4 and 5 star players and isn't Tavor Johnson coaching corners? Why are the corners getting beat and not looking back for the ball? it's hard to watch.

I do not at all have the mind of a bully... in my mind bullies are intolerant of contrary opinion, domineering and rather cowardly.

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Jay_sizzle's picture

As you can tell , Urban Meyer has this obsession with loyalty, freshman who are better than seniors never touch the field because Urban thinks experience over talent will always lead to winning (proven false on multiple occasions) , this isnt on coach Tavor one bit , its on meyer , Tavor does not have much to work with since meyer refuses to start freshman DBs & we have to starting CBs in Arnette & Okudah that are playing out of position. Okudah is FS/SS hybrid (his HS position that he should of stayed at) and Arnette is a box SS , both are forced to play corner because of Meyer’s arrogance, if we’re being honest the DB starters should be 

FS- J Fuller , SS - Proctor/Pryor

CB X - Sheffield , CB Y- Wade , Hybrid CB Z/Box High Safety - Okudah 

but because Greg Schiano’s somewhat outdated defense , we dont see the Hybrid role in the DBs that has made teams like FSU & UF & Alabama consistently successful on defense, no matter the talent level

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KLF Buckeye's picture

Definitely have to agree with that last sentence in the article. Bama will put the game out of reach if our defense doesn't stop waiting until halfway through the 3rd quarter to figure things out. 

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Geraffi's picture

I’m not a football mind. I’ve never played so I don’t know x’s and o’s or what it’s like to be on the sideline and feel the connection to the game, but I have to wonder if all of this rotation on the defense and with our runnning game isn’t a major factor in our consistency. I get it that we want fresh legs/bodies, but doesn’t it help players to develop and schemes to solidify when have consistent personnel? It seems to me like neither Dobbins or Webber can get things going because they’re on again off again.  Frustrating  

Any coaches/former players want to elaborate?  

Do other top programs rotate like this? 

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TomD's picture

Peeking ahead just a little, Purdue has a very effective passing offense, averaging 320.2 yards per game, 2nd only to Ohio State in the B1G. They are ranked 13th in the nation in Passing Offense among the 129 FBS Division I football teams (Ohio State is 3rd).

While this week must be completely dedicated to preparing for Minnesota next week, the defensive coaching staff and players must be aware of the challenge that playing on the road at Purdue will pose the week after.  Focus on Minnesota game preparations with that challenge in mind.

"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it." - Woody Hayes

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Knite's picture

Just wait for it,  the way it is going we will see record performances again against our defense......

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TomD's picture

Just an aside to my own comment, while Ohio State's offense is 8th in the nation in Long Scrimmage Plays of 30+ yards, with 19 such plays, Purdue is tied with Ohio State with 19 plays as well, but in only 5 games, not 6, and Purdue has had 14 plays of 40+ yards.

"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it." - Woody Hayes

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Jdadams01's picture

The defense we saw today will lose to Michigan.

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BuckeyeDevil's picture

Because their defense is good enough to contain the offense just enough to let them win...

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ChazBuckeye's picture

If OSU played Bama, GA, or Clemson next Saturday, then we'd see at least a 30 point curb stomping bc of how the D is playing. Hell, Tua was 10 of 13 for 334!!! IDC if it was Arkansas. That could be OSU...just look at what other teams have done to our D. This is no longer a trend...it's a serious problem on OSU's D.

It is time!!!!!

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Brutus_Bully's picture

Yea this does not look like something that's gonna get fixed it's no better now than it was on week 1.

I do not at all have the mind of a bully... in my mind bullies are intolerant of contrary opinion, domineering and rather cowardly.

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Texbuckbear's picture

“We're not coaching well enough and we're not playing well enough right now for the standards of Ohio State defense,” defensive coordinator Greg Schiano said. “There's a lot of things that go into that, but it's our job to fix it, and that's what's going to happen. We're going to fix it.”

We're waiting.  It would be nice to see just a little indication of improvement.

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Buckeyechuck5's picture

I am not going to make excuses for our defense because frankly they make me sick, but we have to be real here and at least note that Indiana had a td drive with two highly questionable calls. Yes the elbow hit the ground first, but the angle provided was nowhere close to being definitive enough to overturn the call on the field. The 4th down it was blatantly obvious the runners knee was down before the ball reached the 10 yard line and the call on the field was not overturned. Our defense looked like horse shit, but let's acknowledge that Indiana had the officials in their favor. That was a horribly officiated game.

"Life is not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. THATS HOW WINNING IS DONE!!" - Rocky Ballboa

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PapaBucks's picture

Who cares whether his elbow or butt hit the ground first, he didn't have the ball secured and two angles of the replay showed that. 

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exnwohiobuckfan's picture

That’s what I was yelling at the tv. How no one in the replay booth or even the guys calling the game missed the ball bounce in his arms as he landed is beyond me. They were too focused on the body. 

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infantrybuck's picture

more than that, how did they know that his elbow was actually in bounds.  There was no angle that definitively showed that yet, that's why the ref said the call was overturned?

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Osusam77's picture

Seems like every team we play has figured out how to beat our D. Only our talent difference has saved us, but that won’t happen against other elite teams. D is a real problem and it seems that our scheme isn’t getting it done. Doing the same thing with the same personnel won’t lead to a different result. Need to reconsider our scheme and change it up. 

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

Not sure that reconsidering our scheme is an option at this point in the season. Everyone seems to think that you can change things up in a heartbeat and have everyone play better. The scheme has been taught year after year and that is all that has been taught. If any change happens, it would have to be between the end of the regular season and a bowl game or during spring practice.

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Osusam77's picture

Yes, good point. But maybe throwing in a zone or holding the d line on the line occasionally would be a change up that would catch people off guard. Just a thought.

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Woody16111's picture
  • With the exception of about 90 more yards surrendered passing, Ohio State’ defense had about the same sort of day as Alabama’s.
  • Arkansas only has one win on the year while Indiana is sitting at 4-2 and likely a bowl season.
  • Not suggesting Buckeyes D is better or as good as Bama’s but I don’t think the sky is falling.
  • During this day and age of football where the rules benefit the offense, where defenders are being spread out and isolated and where tackling someone aggressively can get you thrown out of the game, you are going to have games like this one.
  • Its a rebuilding year for the DBs - that shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody.
  • 26 for 49 isn’t all that great. 
  • Admittedly if the defensive effort doesn’t get to the next level by seasons end, this squad won’t beat Alabama, IMHO. 

"There is nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."

Completed the "Double Skully" 18-August-2015

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stpetebuck's picture

Woody, you’re supposed to bitch about stuff here. /s

The difference from the first half to the second was stark. The number of pbu’s in the second half was more than the rest of the season. Seems like they decided to play behind the receivers rather than in front. (It realize Schiano says no adjustments made, really?)

If the defense is  on a trajectory from the second half they are in great shape moving forward. I mean 315 one half and 89 in the second half. Wow. Maybe a change due to our d line wearing down the opponent, which has been consistent since 2014. 

Glad im not cheering for LSU, TCU, psu, OU, or MSU.  

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Buckeyebobby1968's picture

“We're not coaching well enough and we're not playing well enough right now for the standards of Ohio State defense,” defensive coordinator Greg Schiano said.

It’s been like this for two years. The inconsistency is maddening. What role does Grinch have? Does he have any input? The pattern I’ve noticed is they start off flat footed and then there’s this sense of urgency and they finally get it together. Eventually it will cost them a win when the offense can’t bail them out. Looking at the schedule the only team that can pull the upset is Michigan. I thought Michigan State could but they’re a hot mess right now 

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buckeyepastor's picture

I agree.  Better competition and play like we had yesterday will cost us a win.  And don’t doubt that East Lansing will be ready for us in November.  Especially if weather is prohibitive of our pass game.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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TomD's picture

In fairness to the defensive coaching staff, the annual player turnover at key defensive positions, with experienced players leaving early for the NFL and inexperienced players annually having to immediately step up and play, has made the defense more vulnerable to this situation.

However, and this is on the defensive coaching staff, playing a higher risk style of defense, given that fact, only exacerbates the situation.

"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it." - Woody Hayes

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buckeyepastor's picture

Several issues with the defense involving positioning, angles, bad reads, etc.  But what frustrates me most is our tackling.  Missed tackles, for starters, but it is disheartening seeing play after play where a DL or LB, fills the gap to take down a ball carrier and brings the guy to the ground after another 3-4 yards.  Would like to see our defense not just tackling better but I guessing hitting them harder.  Seems like every week guys are being brought down but carrying tacklers who should be more than strong enough to stand them up in the hole and stop it dead right there.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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Huskerbuck's picture

“We're not coaching well enough and we're not playing well enough right now for the standards of Ohio State defense,” defensive coordinator Greg Schiano said.

Truer words were never spoken!  I have never seen our DBs so constantly out of position, out played and penalty prone. . .  not occasionally but game after game.  Lbs are close to the same. Is it mostly attributed to coaching or has our player depth dropped off that significantly?  I think coaching. 

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napbuck's picture

I have so many so many problems with this team right now I don’t even know where to start, and it’s not just the defense it’s the offense to. We can’t run the ball against Indiana think about that imagine us trying to run against Clemson or Michigan. As soon as Haskins gets pressure he forces the ball or just throws it up. Offensive line is not good at all pass pro or running, they are really soft if u ask me.

Defense needs a total overhaul, all of this talk of we aren’t coaching the kids hard or good enough that Schiano keeps spitting out isn’t cutting it for me. You are paid a lot of money to do that if your not than leave and hopefully Urban is man enough to hire someone who will instead of one of his best friends, not real sure if he would now that I think about it. Secondary and linebackers are some of the worst units I have ever seen as a buckeye fan for over 30 years.

We need to start seeing improvements next week. All of this talk about playoffs are crazy right now if this team keeps playing like today we won’t make it nor should we.

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Knarcisi's picture

For those of you saying scheme is not the issue on defense, I’ll repost this article which lines it out pretty well. Schiano is going to need to mix in some zone. 

Also, we are playing 2 LBs way up on the line of scrimmage at times, leaving 1 LB to make an impossible tackle. See the IU long run with their RB in the first drive. Borland and Werner at the line of scrimmage, get caught up in the wash. Harrison asked to make a nearly impossible tackle, leaving no one else in the 2nd level, with all the guys on the 3rd level with their back so turned playing man. 

Now, a lot of yesterday was the personnel not making the play or missing the assignment in the secondary. Granted. From Wint, Arnette, Sheffield, and even Okudah and Fuller. So, a lot of yesterday was one on one execution. But scheme has had a lot to do with the issues defensively. 

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/10/3/17928026/ohio-state-...

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Fresh27's picture

Is it just me or does anyone else have 0 confidence that this D will get better as the year goes on?  We are 6 weeks in and I’ve only witnessed regression with the D overall as a unit.  I really hope they can but nothing has shown me that this coaching staff is making any corrections whatsoever.  Also, the offense at times looked stuck in a rut.  We continue to somehow not be able to get 1 yard to move the chains.  Mind blowing at this point.  I had and still do have a lot of Confidence in this team but they have a long long way to go if they want to play with the big dogs!  Great win and on to the next one.

Go Bucks!

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PaulFinebaumIsBiased's picture

When do we get Bosa back

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

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allinosu's picture

The defense did improve in the second. Indiana got 6 points after stopping us at midfield and two bad booth calls that extended the drive.

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GrantShermanSheridan's picture
  • Prior to the start of this season, my biggest concern was the defensive secondary knowing Combs left and replaced with a young Grinch, and pretty much all new starters back there this season.  I didn't realize it's now worse than what I expected, considering there's no improvement though six games.
  • We can all say that these are talented 4 and 5 star recruits back there and they are young & raw, but still we see no signs of at least a little improvement from game to game.
  • My 2nd concern at the beginning of the season was how the WR's were going to play considering we were not good in that department last year either. Then again, look at the dumpster fire WR's coach they had to deal with. The bright spot is Brian Hartline working with the WR's and apparently gaining the WR's respect and eagerness to learn. Brian needs that interim coach tag removed from his title if it is still attached and give him a fat raise or bonus now.
  • These games keep giving me visions of Iowa as if the opposing teams prepare for the Bucks utilizing Iowa game film and plan of attack.
  • I might as well wait until around the 3rd hour of an average three hour game to start watching OSU play on TV, because the first three quarters are not fun so far.
  • I hope the problem is not the players and their ability to improve, but the coach's looking at themselves and their philosophies through a different lens adjusting their own self game plan to coach these kids up. Go Bucks!

GrantShermanSheridan

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DonTurner's picture

Has it occurred to anyone that the B1G is getting more competitive ?    Better coaching, better athletes and young men are in the B1G.   Ohio State is not exclusive to great coaching and great players.   

On a good note, Wisconsin is not as formidable as the experts stated.   Nebraska gave whisky all they could handle last night.  Sparty looks to be sputtering out.   ichigan is just getting lucky all season.  

All in all, PSU and IU brought their ++A++ games.   Everyone want's to upset the cart.  Not gonna happen.  We should all be glad the competition steps up and gives the Buckeyes a challenge.   That experience makes for a better team in the post season play.

O ! H !  

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tampatom's picture

We came off an emotional win and played a really bad half of defensive football, just like last year but we won because we have an offense that no one can stop. Second half saw what showing up to play can be like.  18-20 year olds cannot be expected to be perfect every game and for entire season. 

I do believe some personnel changes should be made, but in first half the dline was sleep walking and that exposed our back 7 more than it needed to be. Our defense played much better after the humiliating Iowa loss last year, so I expect them to improve this year too

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RMLogic's picture

Rewatched the game and the defense did play better and noticed that 3 players did not play as much as in the 1st half- Wint, Borland and Cooper. Pryor, Browning and Smith got the majority of snaps and things improved.

For all the hype Cooper got coming out of HS he has done nothing. He was awful yesterday- missing tackles, failing to contain. Borland may be slower and a poorer player than the infamous Storm Klein. Neat first names- lousy players. Wint may be the worst safety to see the field in 30 years.

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kbab's picture

Cooper is still relatively inexperienced so I’m hoping that he will get better, but he made a name for himself in the camps during the recruiting process, not because of his high school game play. Great athlete, but not sure how great of a football player.

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old grizzled veteran's picture

Gentlemen,

As Woody observed, "You Win With People"....it is also a basic, foundation of football that the "...offense sells tickets, but DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.."  We had better get our defense fixed because it may cause us to be upset by somebody along the way.  Appreciate the various excuses/ explanations as to why we are not very consistent or very solid; however, what we showed versus Indiana will be studied by every defensive coordinator on the teams remaining on our schedule...We must get this fixed now.

old griz veteran

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EnzoAmoresHairExtensions's picture

We keep hearing that the coaching staff is going to fix the problems on the defense, but, there has been anything but fixing that has happened.  I haven't seen any real improvement this year.  This defense is far from championship caliber and not moving towards it.  I can't remember when I have last seen the back end of a Buckeye defense as bad as we currently have.

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Urbanologist's picture

It doesnt help that we have coaches, or at least a head coach that seems incompetent when it comes to evaluating who the strongest players are. The fact that 5th year Senior LB Donte Booker is sitting the bench in lue of at least two starters that are not as talented, as fast, or as experienced as he is. And why are players like Wint allowed on the field ?? 

These positions alone have given up 100 points. But what is so frustrating is to know we have more talented players who are sitting the bench 

Theire is only one truth...

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kbab's picture

Booker had his chance and he never took advantage of it. I don’t go to practices so I don’t know if there are better players on the bench or not, but I do know that the reason they’re coaches and we’re not is that they should have the ability to come up with schemes that best utilize the talent. It’s questionable as to whether that’s being done or not.

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RMLogic's picture

It is obvious that the players on the field stink. If they are good practice players- hooray. Once they play Saturday they are bad. 6 games in and these guys are who they are- Bad.

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ibuck's picture

 6 games in and these guys are who they are- Bad.

Bad for just a half Saturday. Third quarter was better and 4th was very good for the D.

Our honor defend, so we'll fight to the end !

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The Rill Dill's picture

......yep. Thats exactly how long it took for Indiana to get worn down and out athleted.

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Steelydan54's picture

Getting Bosa back in November will make the secondary look a lot better... Wint won't be there either. LB play is being looked at and Browning is getting in the mix second half last 2 games. Speed covers mistakes and I'd rather have a fast superior athlete making mistakes than a slow good athlete unable to cover the ground to make plays. The fast guy can get better- slower guy won't get faster. 

Steelybuck54

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Steelydan54's picture

Getting Bosa back in November will make the secondary look a lot better... Wint won't be there either. LB play is being looked at and Browning is getting in the mix second half last 2 games. Speed covers mistakes and I'd rather have a fast superior athlete making mistakes than a slow good athlete unable to cover the ground to make plays. The fast guy can get better- slower guy won't get faster. 

Steelybuck54

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andye's picture

Paging Kerry Coombs!   Several years  ago I didn't like that the DB's were playing in soft coverage cause we had to much talent. We finally went to press coverage, which I liked.  Now with very weak secondary coverage to this point how about we bury the press coverage & go back to lining up 5 yds off the line?!   Sick of getting burned over the top multiple times every game. Rather OSU get dinked & dunked on 7 yds at a time til a big sack or turnover occurs.  

AE

Andy e

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pig4skin's picture

Midway into the season and our secondary comprised of 4 and 5 star recruits is still having issues. Imagine if we didn't have one of the best D lines applying pressure, how much worse the stat line would be. Heesh! Come on coaches, develop these players. Get it together before the play offs.

Howzit my bruddahs? I may live in Hawaii but my heart is O-H-I-O

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The Rill Dill's picture

I think the D line gets WAY too much credit. Elite my ass.

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Blockandtackle's picture

Coachspeak: We’re going to fix these problems.

Reality:  Our players are practicing harder at rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. 

1st Extreme:  Before Schiano we played a soft zone that allowed teams to dink and dunk short passes, yet big plays were negated. 

2nd Extreme:  with most of our db’s In press-man, they have no idea what is happening on the field except for the guy they’re guarding, so they can’t help in delayed runs and screens away from them. So now we’re still getting dinged, but we’re also getting gashed with big plays -over and over and over.

What’s the definition of insanity again?

A joy which death alone can still.

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GlassCityBuckeyes's picture

Would love too see this team play for a Natty but right now that's not in the cards. The good news is we still have half the season left to get it done.

Noon games suck

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Madaris32's picture

Making excuses like attrition is bs. Every big time program deals with attrition. More players has been drafted from Alabama than any school over the past 10 years. I believe 2nd and 3rd is LSU/Ohio State. The problem is scheme. Stop trying to make players do something they can't. I have an idea, try mixing up a different coverage every now and then. We just keep doing the same thing over and over. It's okay to adjusts during the actual game. Our coaches keep playing the same terrible players, I just don't get it. It's been going on here over the past 5 years. The one main stay is Urban Meyer. He needs to stop being stubborn and play to win and stop hyping up our players after every win. Tell them what needs to be worked on. Get in their face when they make a mistake. Bench them after a mistake. Coach them up on the sideline, instead of relying on your position coaches to do it. We have issues on this defense and offense. In 2015/2016, we heard the same thing all year about the offense getting fixed. What was fixed, nothing. We went through those entire years, doing the same bull crap. It's like he's afraid to be a boss and bench a nonperforming player. Or fire a coach. The defense is the 2015/2016 all over, just a different side of the ball. 

Ivan Madaris

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CowCat's picture

We've faced some pass-happy teams and have gotten burned.

But we have the depth and talent to handle this. Just keep getting better. Hopefully Bosa comes back or another DE steps up big time.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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