So The Bowl Ban in 2012 was Gene Smith's doing? Lol.
F Andy and Gene. I mean how hard is it to be an athletic director?
You can't be serious.
they were and are in it for the money, that is all. College sports and its directors are all for the cash. Gene is the same as everyone else.
Inadvertently. Gene should've just self-imposed a bowl ban during the 2011 season since that team was broken anyways but chose not to. So the NCAA took matters into their own hands and punished the unbeaten 2012 team. That was just not a smart decision by Gene.
I think its unfair to expect him to perfectly predict the NCAA's punishment, when even the NCAA doesn't know half the time. Cam Newton getting paid = no ban. UNC ran fake classes for a decade = no ban. Johnny Manziel literally photographed getting paid = no ban. Baylor letting their team sexually assault every coed on campus = no ban.
Even if he HAD instituted a ban, there's no reason to think the NCAA wouldn't have just slapped an extra year on it anyway (USC and Penn State ultimately got 2 years).
USC and PSU's transgressions went on for much longer than Tattoogate did. That's why they were punished for multiple years (PSU originally got 4 I believe). And there was no purpose for the 2011 team to be playing in a bowl game anyways, they weren't a bowl-caliber team that year. That should've been an easy decision for Gene. Instead Meyer got punished for Tattoogate which was absolutely not fair.
I'm not sure a self imposed ban in 2011 would have stopped the NCAA from slapping another year on it anyway. It probably would've been worth a shot though to try and self impose. I think the real mistake is the fact that Ohio State never fights the punishments that the NCAA hands down, even when they overreach and clearly give to harsh a punishment.
What the University should have done is fought the bowl ban, and appealed the decision. They should've pointed out that the players responsible had already been disciplined by being suspended for games in 2011, and the program had already lost its Head Coach, who was also banned from coaching for 5 years. They should have fought the NCAA decision for a 2012 bowl ban just like any school down south would have. Miami, UNC, Alabama, Florida State, etc.... all of those schools would have appealed and fought the penalties. That's why in my opinion the NCAA usually lets those schools off with a slap on the wrist for major Violations because they know if they try to hammer them they will fight it and take it to court if necessary. The NCAA doesn't want that, it doesn't want to have it's possition challenged and weakened.
They absolutely would have. Like it or not, perception is everything. And the perception of the 2011 OSU team self-imposing a bowl ban in a season where they'd be without their best players for a significant amount of time would have been that the Buckeyes were getting away with it.
In the words of philosopher king E. Gordon Gee himself:
“First of all, the NCAA — if we would have given up five bowl games, they would have imposed the sixth on us because they were going to impose a bowl ban. This was Ohio State. This was (the NCAA’s) moment in time, and they were going to impose a bowl ban no matter what we did.”
I believe a bowl ban for 2012 would have been imposed no matter what we did in 2011.
Gene Smith is a screw up, how he's kept his job this long is crazy...
Whenever Gene Smith is criticized, I just think about how glad I am we don't have Geiger anymore.
Andy Geiger > Gene Smith ... by miles
Considering the shit that Geiger did to Clarett and how much he botched O'Brien's termination fuck him. Gene isn't perfect by any means but he's an improvement from Geiger. All Geiger excelled at as AD was getting the school in trouble. He deserved to be forced into retirement the way he was and it should've been done sooner.
how there seems to be a pattern of OSU protecting "the brand" (to borrow a McAfee tag line) more than applying a fair & reasonable punishment for any mistakes made by players or coaches
They know what they're doing. No player or coach is bigger than the brand. In case you haven't noticed, the football team has done just fine since Clarett laced 'em up. And we'll be just fine one day when Urban leaves.
That doesn't change the fact that Geiger was an idiot to the Nth degree and got the school in all kinds of trouble when he was AD. Thank God he's gone.
They might, but imo, that 2003 team repeats as NC if Mo C plays.
Didn't we also have a QB controversy develop at points during that season because Krenzel struggled a times and McMullen provided a spark to the offense whenever he came in? That also contributed to some of the issues that season. Krenzel clearly wasn't the same without Clarett in the backfield with him.
Krenzel was pretty bad in 03. He went 5/20 against SD State (plus an INT), 11/22 against Iowa, 5/12 (with an INT) against Penn State, and 11/24 against Kansas State. If he hadn't won the NCG the year before there's no way he keeps his job through all that.
Not having much of a running game hurt him tremendously (and the offensive line already was questionable). Our running game was worst in the B1G in 2003 and Lydell Ross and Maurice Hall did a poor job of trying to replace Clarett. Hard for Krenzel to be successful that season when he doesn't have much help. Admittedly the receiving corps was better though (that was the year Santonio Holmes first broke onto the scene).
Krenzel was also fighting injuries throughout the season (concussion, shoulder, elbow)
Shandy is not beer
Don't confuse him with facts. He ran the offense the way Tressel wanted it. Run on first and second down and throw on 3rd and long.
Krenzel had some clunkers, in 2003, but had no running game.
The NC year, 2002, in 14 games, Krenzel averaged 10/17 for 150yds per game.....he only had 12 passing TDs on the whole season, so let's not act like he was Pat Mahomes.
its Ohio State, if theres no running game for an entire season you fire whoever is responsible because theres no excuse.
The RBs Coach was Tressel's brother so that definitely wasn't happening. And Jim Bollman, we know how loyal Tress was to him when he was at OSU. It took a complete regime change to finally get him out of here.
Correct, Krenzel was not any good at any time. He just had a ton of talent around him, especially on defense. All he had to do was not turn the ball over. He was terrible at throwing the ball. Made JT Barrett look like Tom Brady.
I know that they know...there is also a point & time when the brand needs to remember what makes them a brand; the coaches & players. It doesn't take much to fall from great to good/average in college sports (FSU, Tenn, USC, Nebraska, TTUN, UCONN, Syracuse, OSU Bball), so having some allegiance to the pieces that make the cash machine go I think is warranted
OSU bball hasn't gone through too many dark periods. They could've folded after the O'Brien fiasco (and I thought they would) but Matta came in and stabilized everything and by year 3 had brought probably one of the best recruiting classes in the country to OSU (I'm referring of course to the Thad Five). And now Holtmann is kind of doing the same thing after the program started to decline under Matta in the later years. Holtmann has the basketball program headed in a good direction right now.
Matta came in and stabilized everything and by year 3 had brought probably one of the best recruiting classes in the country to OSU (I'm referring of course to the Thad Five)
It was the best of times (nat'l championship appearances in football & b-ball) and it was the worst of times (lost both to the same damn school)
Yep. As fun as the Thad Five were to watch when they were together good God, did they underachieve. And Greg Oden, have you ever seen a more injury-prone player? He was literally made out of glass.
WTF are you talking about...underachieved? Made it to the NC game and lost to the defending champions. Oden had a wrist injury here and that was it. Shot free throws left handed and was better than most. What happened to him after tOSU doesn't have squat to do with our program, so he was injury prone after going #1 In the draft...who gives a shit. He put us in the NC game. They were together exactly 1 season, explain how they underachieved.
Buckeye til I die
I'm actually referring to their pro careers, not their time at OSU. All of them aside from Conley have been disappointments since they went pro. And did you watch Oden in the NBA? Glass. Couldn't make it through a whole season without getting hurt which is why his career ended prematurely.
its not oden’s fault he got drafted by Portland and got ruined.
No one disagrees that the Ohio State brand is bigger than any one coach or player, but that shouldn't mean they're allowed to treat coaches or players unfairly while they are here.
here seems to be a pattern of OSU protecting "the brand" (to borrow a McAfee tag line) more than applying a fair & reasonable punishment for any mistakes made
Brands gonna brand, sure as the sun will rise and set.
Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.
This sounds like a michigan fan statement. Yes, the brand is bigger than the individual but the catch 22 is that the individuals create the brand. So, to protect the brand you need to protect the people that make it.
To assume that OSU will be just fine when Meyer leaves is pretty arrogant. I think of how many juggernaut blue bloods have fallen after losing big time coaches just in my lifetime. Nebraska, Tennessee, Miami, Florida, USC, and Texas off the top of my head.
Michigan’s brand sure has suffered as of late.
Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!
Pat McAfee is a straight shooter, guy calls it like he sees it. On a side note, the man can put em away with the best of them.
He was at the 2017 State Fair (maybe the year before). He had a booth in the Natural Resources area and was very gracious with everyone that stopped by to see him.
Did you ask him what was going through his head when he ripped the ball out of Sean Taylor's hands on that pick in the NC lol?
No, I did not. I actually didn't think of anything profound to say to be honest. But what struck me was how he is a soft spoken man. Completely approachable.
A play I never would have believed if I didn't see it with my own eyes
There were a lot of those in 2002. It truly was a magical season.
I did at the State Fair a few years ago! He said the ball was his and he was going to get it
Pat McAfee is a funny dude. I used to listen to Bob and Tom regularly and he was a frequent guest.
Very intelligent as well. I will have to check out his podcast.
OSU paid Chuck Smrt big bucks to be an intermediary to the NCAA. He advised no bowl ban forthcoming so Smith didn't self-impose. Smrt was wrong.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
Maurice gave a fairly honest assessment of the situation & how essentially the NCAA was content with a 3-4 game suspension for lying to them but that OSU (Andy Geiger) pushed for the full season since this was coming on the heels of the Jim O'Brien (Geiger's friend) situation.
Huh? I don't doubt for a second that Geiger pushed for a punishment that was harsher than the NCAA recommended out of spite towards the Claretts (and Jim Brown), but O'Brien's NCAA violations didn't come to light until a year after ClarettGate v. 1.0 happened. Someone doesn't have their facts right here.
Listen to the podcast & hear it from the horses mouth. 15 years after the fact, I doubt Maurice has any need to fabricate
But he is wrong. Clarrett came before O’Brien.