GO BUCKS!!! *ichigan sucks!!!
Hey 11w. Love you all but I’ve hit my limit. As a fan I’m done with the Courtney smith v Zach smith hillbillies from hell case.
We’ve got our own problems and football is supposed to be a wonderful break from reality.
Now it’s a reality show.
Go bucks beat Oregon State
EVERYTHING is a reality show.
Except reality TV.
First the site apologies for the reporting.
Than this pops up, and it "proves" (per headline) that UM made a mistake.
Calgon, take me away.
Wait a sec, what do you mean? Are you telling me that after this circus we just witnessed that Zach Smith wasn't ever actually charged or convicted of domestic violence? I hope ur wrong.
Buckeye born, Buckeye bred,
and when I die, I'm gonna beat the shit out if Bo Shembechler
Only speaks in swear_trek gifs
Literally Urban should of lost his job for this alone.......
From a distance, ZS seems to be a dirtbag, but I think to Urban, he was like family. Urban was wrong, but I think he was too close to the situation. He is a human. It's easy to say so-and-so should lose their job, but remember that we are dealing with human beings here.
(did not DV you, but I totally disagree)
You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!
Fans are delusional with group think
Media are delusional with group think.
Whatever floats your boat Vmcclell.
I don’t mean to pick on your comment but can we just call it like is with Zach Smith... he didn’t seem to be a dousch he is a dousch. Everything he is accused of minus beating the hell out of his wife he didn’t deny. I can go through the list if you like. It’s ok I will still root for Urban Meyer and Ohio State but just admit it.... Urban still has a job because he can win ball games. Even though I can see the hypocrisy in that I am also happy he is back for that reason lol
Urban still has his job because he's not guilty of the original charge of protecting a wife beater. The committee knew this and decided to make the report about the many other reasons why ZS should've been fired, rather than the original 2015 "incident". All of them were fireable offenses, however they weren't the justification for the creation of this shitshow.
Behold the chunky whoop ass.
This is what blows my mind too. I know I am on the outside and really just a fan, but I wanted Smith Let go a long time ago because he wasn’t good at his job. I can’t believe a coach of Meyer’s caliber wouldn’t of made that decison. I love what Urbs has done for OSU, but this tarnishes his legacy permanently a bit.
You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.
Agree that Smith should have been gone long ago for his poor WR coaching alone--he just wasn't that good of a coach. The WRs have struggled to get open for years. It's like when Tressel kept the Walrus around to run "Dave" every play and wondered why no one ever tried to poach his OC. Has any team even tried to lure Zach Smith away? Has anyone ever even interviewed him (other than the Powell police dept!)?
Glad this is all in our rear view mirror. Love that our Head Coach has a humble side.
It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.
Seattle Sounders 2019 MLS Champions
You forgot the italics.
LOL Finebaum called him arrogant and petulant last night. I really don't know why I turned on ESPN. Their initial coverage actually seemed objective...and then went south in a hurry. Finebuam, David Pollack are a couple that come to mind that can eat a big bag of D's.
To be fair he could’ve looked a little more contrite.
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
I'm hearing and reading this A TON even from some very dedicated Ohio State fans. I have to agree to an extent, my initial thought though was that he just looked exhausted after dealing with that circus yesterday.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
He is a tenured college football coach. Yes yesterday was grueling and exhausting. But so is every other day. I have way too many concerns with his demeanor last night.
I have way too many concerns with his demeanor last night.
I didn't realize you were in the same room with Urban for close to 12 hours; just waiting for this to come to a conclusion.
Methinks the media better get used to that new Urban. More than a 5 word answer is too much. I loved the way Urban replied to questions last night. Lesson taught. Eff 'em all, Belichik style.
That's true as well, it works for Big time Bill... He has to answer their stupid questions, no one said he has to enjoy it.
UFM: Can you repeat that.
UFM: Umh - can you clarify that a bit more?
UFM: I guess I don't understand the question.
UFM: Good question. Talks about one of the grandkids.
Reporter: [That didn't answer my question]
UFM: Can you repeat that.
UFM: Umh - can you clarify that a bit more?
UFM: Next question.
If I am Coach Meyer, I am only answering what I need to and only doing the media I need to do. No extra. ESPECIALLY with any dip analysts who jumped on the hate wagon
I respect that opinion Navy.
To be fair every statement is an apology.
Go for 3.
I made sure to post twice for the ones who don't get it
They criticize him for what he did say to the press at BIG media day. Now they criticize for what he didn't say last night. There is no winning with the press. [Mod edit: Content removes for violating the site’s commenting policy. Politics in italics is still politics.]
Yes, expressing remorse to the judge is a good way for the guilty to get leniency in sentencing for their crimes.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
McMurphy is back at it. Disagree that this is behind us. While not popular opinion, a few of us fans dont see Urban coaching here again. Too many skeletons. Too many unanswered questions. And a University too willing to fold to media pressure. While I dont believe the University seeks any further punishment, I believe Urban takes a few days here to prepare for his resignation. Its the only way he can put this behind him, Shelly and the University. The courts pushing back Zachs court date really screwed us and Urban. And it is obvious the media truly believes there was significant DV.
Wish I felt different.
There's zero chance Urban would have gone through that press conference last night if he intended to resign shortly after.
To be fair, he didnt have a choice last night. And probably didnt know the final decision until the 10th or 11th hour. He still had to represent the University and you could tell he did not agree with them. He said he did....but dont buy that. Today he has to think about the next time he stands in front of the media and the questions they will ask. He has to think about Shelly and the questions media has for her. Today he sits back and realizes this isnt over nor will it be week 4.
"Dont create a distraction, its not fair to the players" -Urban Meyer
Sorry just my opinion.
Well he did have a choice last night. I'm pretty sure he thought about just resigning then and there. As the days pass he'll feel better. If he is smart he will answer questions regarding this a time or two more and then simply stop answering questions. In fact if I'm him I'm just skipping all press conferences. There really isn't any point to them anyways accept to help networks make money.
Yeah SL. But to have the Drake not have his back is ultimately a betrayal of trust. Drake does not know the meaning of "How firm thy friendship..."
That’s a slippery slope. Look at the trouble caused by Coach Meyer’s misplaced loyalty to Zach Smith.
How firm thy friendship, indeed.
Perhaps you need to reread the full report again... seriously, if Urban wasn't Urban, and was an ordinary coach, I'm guessing he would have been fired. There were some pretty cringe worthy moments of this entire Zach saga that cause me to sigh. I have a massive man crush on Urban and love that he is our coach... however, he f@#$ed up several times here so let's not start throwing stones at Drake for having the conviction to stand up and point that out!
The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced
I can be a Buckeye fan and still acknowledge the report’s contents for what they are!
Glad this is all in our rear view mirror.
You are an optomistic soul, aren't you?
Love that our Head Coach has a humble side.
Mixed feelings on this. From the Chicago Tribune this morning:
After failing to utter Courtney Smith’s name during the Wednesday night press conference in Columbus, Meyer was asked what his message to her would be.
“For everyone involved in this, I’m just sorry we’re in this situation,” he replied. “I’m sorry we’re in this situation.”
I’m sorry we’re in this situation.
After failing to utter Courtney Smith’s name during the Wednesday night press conference in Columbus, Meyer was asked what his message to her would be.
“For everyone involved in this, I’m just sorry we’re in this situation,” he replied. “I’m sorry we’re in this situation.”
I’m sorry we’re in this situation.
I don't care for the Trib columnist, but yeah, I think Urban could have done more on that score.
TBH, based on the current legal proceedings between Zach and Courtney, I don’t think anyone was allowed to say anything about their relationship. I didn’t hear the AD or the University president offer up an apology, which could be taken as an admission they did something wrong when the likely civil suit comes.
It’s also possible they know something that they weren’t at liberty to discuss and there is nothing to apologize for.
Or its the simple fact that what exactly would they be apologizing to her for?
Nothing has been proven to happen to her outside of run of the mill bad marriage (in fact more of the people close to her dont believe her than the zero that do).
Its completely ridiculous to make this some kind of cry that Ohio State hates domestic abuse victims.
Also, the lawsuit stuff.
I believe that’s what my last paragraph said. But thanks for the input.
I'm running into memory issues as well it seems
I'm suspending myself from eating three of the Buckeyes in the box on my desk
Hmmm. Is there a link on not being allowed to say anything about their relationship? If there is such an injunction, wouldn't it have been better for Meyer to have said, "I want to answer your question. Unfortunately, I am legally not allowed to say anything about their relationship. I will comment openly once I am allowed to do so."
Also, are you suggesting you can't say something like "I am sorry for whatever pain Courtney Smith has gone through." This doesn't imply an apology or personal responsibility. It is an expression of compassion at the challenges, difficulties and pain someone is suffering. Regardless of what kind of person Courtney is, with the marital infidelity, alcohol abuse, and breakup of a marriage, there was certainly pain and a feeling of betrayal on her part. It isn't wrong to express sorrow at that, is it?
A skilled lawyer (or journalist) would easily twist "I am sorry for whatever pain Courtney Smith has gone through" into enough of an admission of guilt that they could file suit and earn a tidy settlement.
I have a lot of issues with how Urban handled this entire situation, and I've already gone on record saying I believe he probably should have been fired, so I don't want this to come off as homerism. However, I personally did not take issue with the answer to that question, as many others have. I think Urban knows much, much more than we do about her, and the dynamic of that marriage and relationship. He already stated he didn't believe the 2009 incident happened as she stated, so he may very well simply not believer her about all or most of her allegations. Now think about that for a moment, IF he believes she has been lying, can you really expect him to go and apologize to the woman he may believe has made up horrific allegations, and is responsible for much of this entire situation? I'm not saying she lied, I'm saying he may think she did, and is trying to take him down on top of it. I get your point that there is much to be sympathetic about, but I wouldn't expect that sympathy to come from Meyer, again if he doesn't believe her allegations.
And why should they apologize? The school , or Meyer didn't commit DV against CS. This whole thing wasn't about whether ZS is guilty of DV, or if he even if it occurred. It is about whether or not Meyer was covering it up or not following procedure. Too many people and really the media keep forgetting that, or choose to ignore it. It was the opinion of the BOT that he is not guilty of a cover up. I do believe after reading that report that Meyer did deserve to be suspended, not because he covered anything up but because ZS should of been fired long ago for other offences. And I think Meyer understands that now. But owe CS a big fat I'm sry, no sir. He did not owe her one.
I don't get the whole idea that Urban has done anything that he needs to apologize to Courtney Smith for.
Despite all of the crap that Zach was doing, Urban kept in in a job paying $400k for a lot longer than he should have. By keeping ZS, he risked it job and reputation. And for what, a bad to mediocre WR coach? Had he not been loyal to Earle Bruce and by extension, Zach Smith, he would have cut him off years ago and Courtney never would have enjoyed the lifestyle associated with that type of salary.
But to the media, it is Urbans fault that she was in an "allegedly" abusive relationship. She is a big girl and could have left, kicked Zach out or had him arrested on her own. It was not Meyer preventing her from doing this, but somehow the media places the blame on him.
Meyer's big mistake is looking the other way to all of Zach's bad behavior and decision making. And for that, he is paying the price.
Let's not forget that CS had the divorce case sealed, at her request, to protect ZS from losing his job. That fact is often overlooked. I guess Urbz should have broken into the courthouse and stolen sealed records.
Humble or humiliated? How about beaten down and worn out, fatigued and aggrieved? by hours of fighting a suspension he did not agree with and then being coerced into reading a statement saying he did agree?
Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)
He acted like a hostage victim because he was.
you overlook this stuff for a larry johnson or tom herman - elite position coaches. what will always perplex me is that he overlooked all this for a mediocre-at-best position coach. urban hit it on the head when he said he was making decisions with his heart instead of his head, which he has a propensity to do...
-corey brown over vonn bell in 2013
-throwing a bomb on 3rd and long while running out the clock vs alabama
-no competition at all at qb spot
the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS
Braxton Miller running the ball against MSU in the CCG...
Not using Zeke more in the 2015 loss to MSU...
He used his best player in running miller, a key block was missed, just like in all poorly executed plays.
He could have run his best player zeke 15 more times in that game for 15 more yards. Then he would be accused of running the same stupid play over and over. msu wasn't going to let zeke beat them. When you lose a game, you just can't win-in your coaching decisions.
Hyde was much better at getting a few yards when the box is stacked.
All of us in arm chair are right sometimes.
All players get a few yards when the blocks are clean. If blocks are missed hyde gets stuffed too.
It's never the play call, but it's always the execution of the call. Always.
Hyde breaks tackles when the box is stacked. Missed tackles were not the problem. I should say "whiffed" as many here repeat what Meyer said. And I think Meyer deserves no punishment. JH was beaten to the outside, as the defender was already to the outside, and they all knew Miller would try to run out side. Hyde could have made the block, but it is 11 on 11, and there is no numerical advantage.
You don't run wide in a short yardage situation. As a defensive player, I loved it when teams tried to run wide in those situations. It is hard to maintain your blocks long enough to keep the defense out of the backfield. All it takes is one missed block, forcing the play deeper into the offensive backfield, to blow the play up. If you are going to run the ball in short yardage, spread the field and make the defense play spread out across the field. Then you have fewer blocks either on an inside trap or an off tackle play, to potentially be missed, blowing the play up.
Starting a one leg JT against Wiscy...when the committee needed a good reason ( reborn passing game) to have a reason to place us in the natty
Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP
I agree he needs to be more ruthless like Saban in some ways. Saban doesn't know who you are, he'll fire you right before the national championship
YOU SIT THERE AND YOU THUMP YOUR BIBLE AND YOU SAY YOUR PRAYERS AND IT DIDN'T GET YOU ANYWHERE!!! TALK ABOUT YOUR PSALMS TALK ABOUT JOHN 3:16.... AUSTIN 3:16 SAYS I JUST WHIPPED YOUR ASS!!!!!
Loyal to a fault. My biggest frustration with Urban the last handful of years has been the loyalty to some of the veteran guys when it seems clear to everyone that there are more talented younger players. Powell, Brown, Barrett, Hooker, Bell, Haskins, etc.
However, what scares me about his suspension is that punishment is supposed to be reserved for wrong doing or crimes. When I was a kid people got in trouble for doing something wrong and they were punished accordingly. In today's society, people are tried and then subsequently punished as the trial plays out in the court of public opinion (which is strongly influenced by the agenda driven and biased media). Meyer did nothing wrong, he committed no crimes. Yet all of a sudden "he could have done more" is now a suspendable offense? It is the coaches responsibility to operate on facts and make the best decision from there. The board basically said he didn't intentionally lie or do anything wrong..... But he could have done more. All to appease a biased mob that hates Ohio State and would have been unhappy unless Urban was publicly hung. Absolutely ridiculous!!!!
Vires Et Honestas
I agree that he needs to be held accountable for all that goes on at the facility. Being held responsible for something in a private home where the police were involved is way out of bounds, I believe. I don't think anyone wants work being required to keep a close eye on what goes on at an employees house. And I completely disagree with the notion that letting the police handle it isn't enough.
No, the board didn't say he did nothing wrong.
Read the report. He failed numerous times to submit , in writing as is required, a report to compliance regarding what problems he was aware had occurred with one of his coaches. He removed texts from his phone that were more than a year old, which really troubled investigators, when they learned that he did it when he and Brian V discussed the McMurphy report and he wanted to keep the press from obtaining his texts. His WR coach perpetually was missing practices, was late to practices , was submitting to internal AD administration that he was on recruiting trips, then Meyer would find out he never showed up to those trips( and didn't inform Gene or compliance, simply scolded Smith for it).
Read the report people, he seriously lapsed his duties to OSU per his contract and the general policies of OSU.
I read the report. No violations but he could have done more. I delete texts on my phone automatically after a year. Maybe I should be suspended too.
Whether Zach Smith was employed at OSU or not doesn't preclude him from allegedly and potentially abusing CS. The Powell police department should be under the microscope more substantially than OSU in my opinion.
I read the report. I don’t believe the decision was made in haste. Ironically, the PLAYERS are held to a Zero Tolerance policy, and yet grown men were not!
It is like concurrency in military procurement. Let's build an aircraft carrier with new untested technology. We can fix it all once it is built. Let's build a new multi-role fighter/attack stealth aircraft. We can build them and maybe after 500 are built we will get the software and hardware setup so that they can actually fire missiles, drop all of the bombs in inventory and accurately shoot their gun. I can't see how things can go wrong with that. (Sarcasm)
UM is not being punished for a single act or failure to act. He is being punished for allowing Zach Smith to remain on the program in spite of all of his wrong doings and missteps. Any other assistant coach, especially one as mediocre-at-best as Smith, would have been fired long ago. Meyer is suspended for allowing ZS to embarrass the University and for Meyers inability or unwillingness to deal with him.
No competition at all at QB? Did you NOT pay attention to the 2015 season at all? Not only was Cardale given the opportunity to start over JT he won the job at first. He just didn't make the most of said opportunity and JT eventually won the job back as a result. Get out of here with that half-truth nonsense.
Give me a break - that was not a competition at all!
Wrong. You can't overlook anything for anyone. Not in this day and age. And you've GOT to let go of the butthurt over personnel decisions, especially ones from years ago. That will eat you up inside. Accept that the coaches know more about their personnel than you do and get on with your life.
"Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect." -- Woody Hayes
How about he shouldn't overlook that "stuff" for anyone. The fact ZS was a mediocre coach may make it that much more ridiculous that he overlooked so much, but I certainly don't agree that he should have overlooked things simply based on which coach is better.
It's over and done. Haters gonna hate. Coach is a better man now. I accept his acknowledgement of his lapse in judgement.
Let's get back to football.
15-1 is SWEET!
I actually do not think it’s done. There are still plenty of threads to pull, and McMurphy clearly intends to keep pulling until he finds a way to make it all unravel.
"Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed, is more important than any other one thing." - Abraham Lincoln
His 15 mins are almost over
Just heard him on local radio declaring that it is far from over and “the sharks are circling.”
So Urban Meyer is human. Will America allow this of football coaches?
I think it's in the language of their contracts that they can't be human.
Does a segment of our fan base realize this about Meyer being human?
Because some of the reverence has been diety like.
I’ll go ahead and post my unoupular opinion again on here.
After seeing the facts in the report, he deserved to be suspended. 3 key things that changed my tune. 1) Gene Smith advised him to acknowledge the 2015 incident at media days. I thought for a while that Urban lied to protect his boss. 2) Zach Smith got way too much rope and his job was being affected. He no showed at recruiting appointments and was late for practices and meetings. 3) Urban deleted his text messages after a year.
We never get here if Urban a) handles media day differently or b) terminates Zach when he should have.
Or never hires him at OSU in the first place. But hindsight is always 20-20. We have to learn from it and move on.
Yes, hindsight is 20/20.
Everyone can tell you what you should have done.
It's like the old saying about buying stocks:
"Buy low and sell high. But what if a stock goes down? Well you should not have bought it in the first place."
It make take a while before you cut your losses.
I feel ya and your comments and I agree but...hindsight.
Let's move on!
Agreed, but we just got the report which is less than 12 hours old, so need to reflect on that a bit. All this is looking backward with the most accurate and comprehensive depiction of the events that we have to date. He made some mistakes. We all do. I forgive him and he has my support as we move forward.
Definitely--we can't move on without learning the lessons, but we do have to move on. Like you, I support him as we move on and hope he as he moves forward these lessons hit home.
That being said, I AM READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!
I agree with you on almost everything posted above. The team hasy support though. Can't say I care much enough to respect him anymore at this juncture.
"I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes
Things always (generally?) seem clearer when you have the advantage of looking back at everything in a 24 page summary. That being said, everyone in the national and local media as well as various fam bases needs to stop and consider situations they have been in where it is a social and family circus and ask whether or not it is so clear while living in the midst of it. Clearly Urban let his loyalty to Earle Bruce cloud his judgement some and he came off way too dismissive of the inquiry at media days, but I can totally see where he came from in terms of not wanting to air dirty laundry in the public. He just doesn't have that luxury.
Time to move on from this. I'm sure he will be more exacting moving forward. I do not believe this means he runs a corrupt program. He will probably just give a lot less chances moving forward. Makes me a little nervous about the thought police in other work settings or public realms. And the power of accusation without proof will undoubtedly increase as well.
I think they could have suspended him for longer and been justified.
I also think a serious discussion could be had over whether to fire an employee who is the head of a department/team/whatever that continues to overlook terrible behavior from his employee(s). It shows a serious lack of judgment.
I'm ok with the result but wouldn't have been offended it the suspension was longer or worse.
Having said that, I honestly believe Urban had a soft spot for ZS due to his family ties and wasn't keeping him on to protect him or cover for him but in a way to keep him close and try and keep an eye on him since the guy was clearly a mess. He should have fired him a long time ago (frankly, he shouldn't have hired him again) but that's how it goes with those you care for. Kind of like a parent helping an addicted child far past when they should have cut the cord. But it still led to a fairly serious (IMO) fuck up.
I also learned this as manager. While Urban thought he was giving him a chance, the best thing he could have done for him personally was fire him. A lot of times, it’s the best thing you can do is give people a wake up call. Not easy to do, but having been through it a few times, I get that now.
Yeah it sounds messed up to help or urge some one along to rock bottom, but that is often needed even if it really sucks for both parties.
It even has a name ... a significant emotional event. It happens from large corporations to indiciduals in their personal lives.
As herbie said last night.....how many hours in a day does a coach have to deal with the lives of their coaches? How much digging can a coach do on families and still be a coach? Shouldn't they have someone hired to do this work? How dumb are people to believe that Urban actually had the time to sit down for hours and continually weigh what is going on in Smith's personal life? He works 18 hour days coaching a team. Does he have a few extra hours to NOT sleep and to be a marital advisor/detective? Herbie was spot on. And OSU fans....all of us....need to realize that Urban is human. He made an error in judgement on the character of his coach. But he is not GOD. He shouldn't be held at that standard by fans and non-fans alike.
I don't think any honest person is claiming he should have spent all his free time investigating Smith's personal life.
Frankly, he didn't need to. He already had enough info to fire the guy.
That's all well and good if the things like the strip club with a HS coach, Rehab, failing to do his job, DV allegations twice, had all been unknown to Meyer.
Spot on, Tbuckw and Herb, and in addition to the time constraints on Urban, we now have 20-20 hindsight of many facts that Urban was unaware of.
And if Zach had turned things around then the discussion would be all about how Urban had been patient in helping a problem employee get his life together. But Zach didn't do it.
The problem is not Urban, the problem is Zach.
ZS was likely a very good recruiter.
He was a great recruiter, no doubt. I'm sure some of that same swagger that looks ridiculously out of place in adulthood probably went over big with 18-year olds.
Hit the nail on the head. It's perfectly alright to love our coach while also recognizing that he wasn't perfect or innocent in this whole thing.
He also seems to have failed to mention the 2009 arrest to Gene even while the 2015 mess was going on, which could have put a different perspective on things for the AD.
I sincerely doubt the 2009 incident would’ve changed Zach’s hiring. Look at the potential/alleged baggage that came with a Schiano and Wilson. It would’ve likely been viewed as a one-off, blip on the radar
Now, armed with that knowledge, Gene might have pulled the trigger on Zach in 2015.
That's what I'm thinking, especially since there was other stuff too.
Had it been in the records when Smith was hired, Urban wouldn't be looking like he was hiding that fact because he felt OSU would not have hired Smith had they known it.
Urban has a duty to protect OSU, not his potential hires.
Those guys weren't hired in that initial group though. This was post NCAA sanctions, post Tress.,.. that first group of guys should have been spotless..
It may be with hindsight and because it sounds good to say but Temple and Marshall both said had they have known they wouldn't have hired him.
And I disagree about Gene... CLEAR AS DAY reading the full report Urban is the Alpha in the Gene/Urban partnership. If I told a subordinate to fire someone and they said no thanks it would be a PROBLEM. Gene just backed down each time and deferred to Urban when it came to Zach..
What should have happened.. they tell Gene about 2009 in the initial hire with the understanding Zach comes to the program on sort of thin ice... Instead Zach comes in knowing what's he always known.. Urban will go above and beyond to fix his messes.. that's not good for anyone.
Yep. Yep. Yep.
I read 90% of the report this AM including the texts between Meyer, AD Smith, and the two others. If I recall correctly, those messages were exchanged late on the night before the B1G media days presser and extended into the AM hours. In another part of the report, it cites medication taken regularly by Meyer that impacts his ability to remember things. I wonder if he had taken prescribed sleeping meds before this conversation. If so, that could partly be to blame for not “being prepared” for the questions on that topic. He may have gotten up there and gotten confused. Just a thought.
Is it possible to get my wife some of that medication?
Totally agree. With the additional details in the report, and what we already knew about ZS, it does justifiably make Urban look bad. That he at the very least exercised repeated poor judgment in regards to just about everything involving ZS.
Since he couldn't have known EVERYTHING ZS was up to, and still by most accounts it seems like the DV allegations are mostly unfounded, this wasn't enough to fire Urban. But begrudgingly I would say a suspension is pretty fair. I really don't think the university could release that report to the public and say, yeah he's good no punishment at all.
"even the investigation concluded that “Meyer’s cherished relationship with Earle Bruce may also have diminished his ability to clearly process and assess the severity of Zach’s problems or to appropriately discipline him”"
I think UFM has learned a valuable lesson here. You are NEVER too old to learn. His apologies were sincere and I think he has learned a lesson. Meyer does not strike me as the type of guy that enjoys having egg all over his face. He will come out of this much stronger as a person.
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
Pride is a funny thing.
I hope we just move on, but fear we're ultimately stuck in a due loop.
Tailgate Fare Historical Archive
Urban never lied number one. Number two... ZS was never charged. Everyone is claiming guilty when we are supposed to claim innocence until proven guilty. The number of self righteousness in people today is abundant. Go ahead and down vote me. It won't take away the fact that what I say is true.
Or, at a minimum, misconstrued his statement so as to avoid revealing the truth.
Yeah, he lied.
I’m working to be a PR rep or a liar. Work with me.
Speaking of PR, Jerry Emig advised Urban to deny knowing about it during media days. Emig should be fired. You had one job!
Page 12 of 23 addresses that (the maligned) G Smith who was accused of not advising Meyer, and Emig too, BOTH suggested/advised Meyer how he could/should address Media Day questions. He replied “Thx” to G Smith, and did not acknowledge Emig’s follow up text. In the end, he responded as he wanted and like he did. There was consequences.
Here’s the thing, Campbell was also advised by G Smith on how to “handle” the questions and did as was instructed. He was lauded for his grown man like responses.
That was supposed to read “lawyer” not “liar”. Stupid autocorrect.
The number of self righteousness in people today is abundant.
If this statement was in reference to me, I don't think it's warranted.
My statement about pride has nothing to do with whether or not failing to be completely honest is lying. It is my own statement of belief that Urban Meyer has a hard time, or cannot at all admit when he is wrong. Not firing a person that by any reasonable standard should have been terminated, is but one example.
Still hoping we can find out who this mystery coach was with ZS at the strip club. It’s a moot point and bears no importance on any of the preceding, but gosh darn it I’m curious now.
Texas Tommy? Kerry “what’s a winter jacket” Coombs? Luke Fickell? Me?
"I find your lack of kalua disturbing" - Darth Lebowski
I believe that this incident happened in 2014. Beck wasn’t here then. It’s widely rumored that it was Mr. MENSA, but not confirmed.
I shouldve used a /s
Try the sarcasm font. It's the best.
Fickell seems to be a pretty devout family man and very committed to his wife so I doubt it was him. Plus he's been at OSU far longer than any of Urban's other assistants (only holdover from Tressel's staff along with Stan Drayton). I would think if Fickell had a tendency to hit up strip clubs he would've landed in the news for it years ago during the Tressel era as well (and Tressel for all his faults was known for strictly hiring high-character coaches).
“I did not know everything about Zach Smith"
Why do some people struggle to understand this statement? Urban is not a parole officer keeping tabs on his entire staff and what they do off campus or in their personal lives..
He did know enough (and should have reported more that knew to Gene/HR) to take action before July.
This is exactly why Gene Smith should have been fired. He knew well enough that Urban's judgement would be clouded because of Earl. Smith should have taken the burden from Urban and fired Zach.
Smith must have some really damning evidence against multiple BoT members to have now survived two coaching debacles.
I legitimately wonder about Gene Smith.
From a fan's perspective, it's absolutely insane that he's still employed - the Tressel scandal happening on his watch, deciding not to take a bowl ban in the lost season of 2011, letting Urban continue to employ ZS, himself failing to report information on ZS to the compliance department, and purely being the most senior person in charge who's supposed to be running things......and yet, not only is he still employed, he basically got the exact same punishment as Urban.
he basically got the exact same punishment as Urban.
Actually, it's interesting he only has 16 days. Urban has had 21, and has more to go.
I've said this a few times, but it bears repeating. Gene Smith knows where more OSU bodies are buried than anyone. It will take a lot to fire him. He has more leverage against OSU than they ever will over him.
I read Pat Forde's recent article. Hot Garbage. My reason for writing this is because the comments section was 90% pro-Meyer. Even rival fans were sticking up for him and slamming Yahoo's, ESPN's, and other outlets fake outrage and Twitter judgments. This surprised me.
Keyboard warriors are the majority, that is for sure. I love it that good people are so moved to stand up and be heard. Usually they don't have the inclination to deal with idiots. Here's to good people being heard!
I would argue they are the loud minority.
Agreed. Should have said "keyboard warriors are the majority of posters".
Im not surprised. There's a media bubble. I think it's very fair to question whether of this is any of Urban's business. Many people think it should be left to the legal system. Obviously, the media's power is this sort of kangaroo court that's becoming more and more common.
Didn't read Forde's but have read a few others. I think the only fair take on the media side is that Meyer clearly was showing no actual remorse for his actions and did probably come off as arrogant in the presser, and they can poo poo him on that. Which if you know the whole story like we do, him being pissed and non-apologetic at the presser is a reasonable mood for him to have been in.
Anything referencing needing to apologize to Courtney Smith is complete trash at this point though, as there is nothing at all substantiating her claims anymore, but so many in the media still refer to her initial video as verified fact. They are oblivious to the likely reason the investigative committee didn't want to "go there" in the report is because she and the whole situation was a trainwreck. You better believe if there actually was damning evidence in the original DV allegations, it would have been part of the report and Urban probably would have been axed.
I think the only way this gets better is if ZS starts publicly winning the court battles with CS, and some under oath and on the record details come out against CS. Then the virtue signalers can't call for Urban to apologize to Courtney, because there likely is nothing to apologize for. Regardless, I am sure we will hear about this for the rest of Urban's tenure at OSU.
I think the only fair take on the media side is that Meyer clearly was showing no actual remorse for his actions and did probably come off as arrogant in the presser, and they can poo poo him on that.
I hate to say it, but that just may be his personality. He seems like a guy who people who know him say things about like, "You know, he's actually really funny...", but he's always come off as a little smug, which in most situations is of no consequence.
I agree with some sort of suspension, but still:
A six week suspension (3 without pay) is fair, imo. Like Herby said last night, what urban does moving forward will ultimately decide how this effects his legacy.
The browns suck and always will. Baker is a huge douche too. May a drunken mod edit this signature because it hurts his butt
E + R = O.
We'll see this going forward.
I'll give Herbie credit. He's the only ESPN employee approaching this story the logical way.
And I'm sure some will criticize him for being a "home-r" because of it.
Only a few days after he picked PSU to win the B1G? Yeah, that will definitely destroy some credibility lol.
By the way, who was the reporter to ask the last question on what he would say to Courtney Smith? That was a real cheap shot.
I would have been a smart ass the whole time and answered with a "no comment" at every question directed my way..
I'm just here so I don't get fined.
I had a mentor's son come from California, at the request of his father, to live with me. The guy had been involved in drug dealing and addiction and wanted to get away from the 'scene'. He soon broke the rules, and I took measures to protect myself (he was standing over my bed one night in a rage of methamphetamine) and those associated; The next day I kicked him out in a very frank and forthright way that let him know I cared but could not support his current behaviors. He came to me about 2 years later sober & clean and thanked me. It was one of the toughest lessons I have learned. E+R=O...you got this Urban!
Significant emotional event.
Very inspirational story and I commend you for doing what you did. However, if ZS were to show up at Meyer's doorstep 2 years from now and claim he's cleaned up his act, I would hope Meyer simply congratulates him and never trusts him enough again to hire him back at OSU after all of this. Too many bridges burned there IMO and the OSU football program should really never expose themselves to something like this EVER again with an employee.
Oh, believe me; that guy never got past the front door again. I had a wife and child by then, too.
His trust account is in major arrears.
I'm sorry for this terrifying event in your life.
Now we are making a decision with a different person at a different time and place with different facts.
So how do we apply it to Urban? After Urban threatened Zach with dismissal should OSU have been more patient because Zach would soon turn his life around like your mentor's son?
Or is Urban like you where he has been attacked for days and after 10 hours of Doctor Drake standing over him, he needs to get him out of his life and away from his wife Shelley?
I refuse to make false accusations about Zach Smith until the court proceedings between him and his ex-wife are settled and all of the facts are released. That said, as someone who stuck up for Smith, Zone6, and his ability to recruit, I do have to say that I have reversed course and sincerely wish that Urban would have found a better suited candidate knowing the problems he was bringing aboard at tOSU. Urban did have blinders on because of the late, great Coach Bruce and for that, he made a mistake.
Good to have you back in a few games coach. God speed and lets roll this season!
I heard Mike McQueary was available at the time. He was a pretty good WRs Coach at PSU. Oh wait, ....... s/
Without even mentioning the dv allegations, there were plenty of reasons why Zach Smith should have been fired. He developed a drug/alcohol dependency, showing up late to work, and lying about some work that he completed. Look at the results from 2015 when he started having problems, up to his eventual firing this July. We as fans often complained about the lack of production at the receiver position and these new findings show that Zach was not even doing his job to the best of his capabilities.
2 things that piss me off:
1) The media does not understand that The Police were involved in this long before Urban was and Urban IN NOW WAY kept Courtney in harms way or enabled Zach Smith.
2) Yesterday's entire proceedings were for tOSU to deal with discipline on Urban and Gene, IT was not to honor or pay homage to Courtney Smith.
This upset me as well. The case had nothing to with whether or not there was domestic violence between Zach and Courtney, but whether or not Urban Meyer, Gene Smith and Ohio State correctly handled this situation. Now the media is in a outcry because they did not understand or just forgot why Ohio State launched the investigation in the first place.
Every statement was an apology no mater the tone or who it was addressed to. But agree. I wish when they asked Urban if he had anything to say to CS... he said I’ll let her know when I see her next. We’re going to reach out and see if we can help her and the kids. If you have to play the PR game, then play it.
This goes to show what many on this forum have been speculating about for some time, that Zach Smith was only on this staff because of Earl Bruce.
Admittedly Urban too often gave ZS the benefit of the doubt and did not always pursue the red flags due to his high appreciation for Earl. However he did fire Zach once he crossed "the line" and even before learning so much that has since been confirmed. Bottom line is that neither ZS or his former wife are high character people let alone role models for anyone.
The concern here is that despite all of the evidence of his character and poor job performance, and against the advice of his AD, Meyer continued to employ ZS. If not for his transgressions becoming public, I believe ZS actually would still be coaching at OSU.
Anyone pushing the narrative Urban Meyer did nothing wrong in keeping that ass clown on staff for so long is just flat out wrong. Dick pics from the White House, Sex toys and blow jobs in the office, trips to strip clubs on tax payers dollars, and not showing up for work. That’s before we ever get to the question of domestic violence.
I disagree with one thing. The $600 at the strip club was not paid from a University travel account or anything, it was with Smith's own money according to the report. It's still terrible, and I'm appalled at Zach Smith's actions, so I'd like to make it clear I'm in no way defending his actions.
Your hindsight is 30/20 but your narrative is wasted. I haven't seen one person say myer was right employing zs until he fired him.
he ultimately should be back on the field and coaching his team in a game in less than a month.
Call me cynical, or maybe paranoid, but with the way McMurphy has played his cards, and the way others and covered it, I don’t think this is over by a long shot. They’ll keep digging and find someone or something that causes more problems. McMurphy clearly has made it personal and wants Meyer out at OSU. I really do think he pushes it until he gets his way. The questions surrounding the police report being changed at some point this year and OSU’s clear lack of compassion or contrition for their actions and how those actions (or inactions) affected the alleged victim will haunt them and continue to raise questions.
I think OSU was at a place that, contractually, they couldn’t really fire him. They’d lose $38 mil. Like it or not, that’s just bad business. And that’s what this is - a business decision.
I will show sympathy for Courtney when it is proven that she suffered anything more than a bad marriage and an unfaithful husband. Urban gets paid a bucket load and his influence on his players, his coaches, his program and this state was limitless. I am ok with the suspension and would be ok with a termination. He hired a lose cannon and that was his right to do so but he seemed to forget the possibility of a repeat offense existed let alone that it was imminent and every time an example of his poor decision reared his head, he did less than enough to protect himself let alone Courtney and OSU. When you do something dangerous, you need to buckle up or put on a helmet and i cant believe Urban would be so reckless with his own future let alone OSU's reputation and God forbid Courtneys health. HE KNEW BETTER AND DESERVES HIS PUNISHMENT regardless of what it looks like or who it does not appease. He also went against the very advice he solicited when he answered the question in Chicago and that too is on him. Does he deserve all this? NO not really but did he bring it on himself--yes, absolutely. You get what you get unless you do what you must to prevent it. PERIOD.
Urban gave Zach an unending leash and he damn near hung all of them with it.
Once a Buckeye, Always a Buckeye
It's not over yet.
I'm afraid you're right.
I'm positive that I am. There is more out there. Even if it's only tangentially related, McMurphy will not be satisfied until Meyer is gone.
Mcgruff has zero chance in getting myer fired, he shot his load and it came up well short. If he had anything more, he'd have played it during the invest., which is the only time to bury the person being investigated. Anything after is too little too late. The committee has spoken to the relavent participants and would have asked all pertinent questions to any other smoking guns related to this.
Or you wait and play it just shortly before his return, or perhaps on the eve of the program's biggest game, just to maximize exposure and embarrassment, ensuring his exit. I'm just telling you - based on what I've heard from McMurphy, he's not done, and neither is anyone else. They're going to keep looking anywhere they can for negative stories related to this situation.
ok we're on opposite sides of the post here. You think there's going to be a big boom. I don't see a shart. I'm not saying nothing will be unearthed, I'm saying if there is, it won't effect myer's status-at all.
There will always be negative publicity for this, aren't they still talking about woody all of these years later? How long has he been dead?
People love negativity of the perceived high and mighty, they love to see them fall or get their comeuppance. A man tells his wife 1,000 times that she's smart and beautiful, one time, he says, damn that was a stupid thing to say. Which do you think she remembers the most? I'm not suggesting you should reverse that scenario, so she remembers something you said the least. lol I am suggesting what human nature is like.
I have decided to not allow myself to watch the national reaction, as it has swung way too far on the pendulum. Gerry DiNardo said that an opportunity was missed to make a statement about DV when Urban was not fired. What a high horse. Really?
The hard thing to do is often the right thing, and even Coach Meyer failed to do what was right soon enough, which, after all is said and done, was get rid of Zach much sooner.
ZS/CS are clearly troubled people. Maybe Urban thought he could help them or their kids by staying close and keeping Z employed. Urban just learned a valuable lesson about personal boundaries and workplace boundaries. Urban does have "loyalty issues"; he lets the relationships get in the way of seeing clearly what might be a better way to handle things. He's not alone and many consider this a strength, not a weakness. But it's a weakness in a high level executive leader. Here's to learning a valuable lesson and hope it moves him from "one of the best coaches in college football" to the Best. I can accept this suspension, even though my scarlet glasses don't like it. We are about to start a great season of football and need to get this story well into the rear view mirror in the next few days. And any media questions designed to stir the pot should be pointedly ignored. As in "next question" ignored.
I am not surprised that so many posters see things so clearly in retrospect. And it seems likely that humans - even coaches - can make decisions that others - in retrospect - consider problematic. It also appears that only the university president is infallible. God forbid we ever find out that ZS - although a dirtbag - never did assault his wife... which from my perspective has at least a 50-50 chance of being true.
I don't know exactly how we'd ever find that out. It's the alleged victim's world against everyone else. The fact that she had pictures of her, no matter the cause, and that he admitted to putting his hands on her in anger, no matter the reason, is enough to make a compelling case that he took things too far. That's enough for the public, no matter what anyone else may say. People were even talking yesterday about how even if someone is never arrested for DV and never charged or convicted, doesn't mean they didn't do it. While I agree that can sometimes be true, it's also a slippery slope to assume that anyone who's ever accused of a crime is guilty, despite the outcome of investigations and trials.
Three things which bother me the most :
1 - The text message erasing. This doesn't indicate guilt of any kind, just shady.
2 - Urban still claims Shelley never told him about the 2015 texts with Courtney. Anyone who is married knows this can't possibly be true. My theory is that he and Shelley obviously still have severe doubts about Courtney's claims, which I think is completely understandable, but unfortunately in today's climate you can't come out and say that as you will be instantly painted as a domestic violence supporter.
3 - The media narrative that Ohio State cares more about winning than anything and did whatever it took to keep Urban on staff. This is simply not true. I don't believe Urban did anything which warrants his dismissal. We fired Woody, we fired Tress, we would be fine without Urban. The program will go on, and be successful either way, I trust our administration acted with integrity.
I humbly disagree with your take on #2. As a married person with 33 years under my belt (34 next week), you can’t make a blanket declaration that anyone who’s married knows that can’t be true. All married couples have their own levels of communication. My husband never talks me about his work. He feels like when he gets out of work, he doesn’t want to think about it anymore. I have learned to live with it.
Only Urban and Shelley know what they talked about and when. Personally, I doubt that in Urban’s miniscule down time that he and Shelley spent that time talking about Zach and Courtney. They did have a new grandson around that time; I’ll put my money on that being the main topic.
True story: couple politics are the craziest politics of all. It'll be 21 years for me next week. Happy anniversary!
I have to say I was first kind of surprised there was a 3 game suspension thinking that was a bit harsh if they didn't think he lied. But reading the report in full I have changed my stance. It took way too long for Urban to fire Zach Smith, that is clear. Even if there were no DV possibilities this guy would have been fired just about anywhere else for many other things. Kind of makes it easier to believe his ex-wife but this investigation was NOT about that at all. It was about whether Urban acted appropriately to fire a terrible employee. Glad he finally did the right thing.
And to all the people on social media saying Meyer failed to apologize to Courtney. I believe he may have been told to keep her name out of it.Ohio State is in a position where they have to take the stance that they fired this coach for cause once they saw that a formal report was filed. If they back down on that now and say things to further corroborate her side, I think it just makes matters worse for everyone involved in the long run. Seems harsh to some, yes, but this investigation was about Urban Meyer, not Courtney Smith. Her lawyer (and best friend Brett McMurphy) can do the rest of the investigating on Zach Smith from here on out!
People aren’t looking at this rationally.
1.) ZS wasn’t fired in 14 because technically his act wasn’t explicitly forbidden in any contract language & Urban would have to have fired another very prominent coach as well. ZS got off on a technicality & Urban restructured the coach’s manual in response to drive the point home.
2.) Very few position coaches are getting fired for inconsistent performance when their bosses know they are going through a nasty divorce that includes allegations. Most people tend to get leniency in these situations. With that in mind ZS was given a chance to get his shit straight & he played the part.
3.) The leave, investigation, & suspsension was all in an effort to find a reason to & in fact punish Urban because Drake wanted something to give to the media. His suspension was not about how he handled this situation. Even his failure to report to Compliance in 15 was a technical gag, because it was Compliance who informed Gene who informed Urban. It wasn’t like they simply failed to run it up.
Keep in mind Urban knew only of a one off event at a strip club of which ZS was not the only participant & a nasty divorce with allegations that weren’t found to be credible by anyone involved that as to be expected affected his job performance. That’s it. Most people in most jobs get leniency in some form or fashion in these situations.
"Because I couldn't go for three"
He lied about missing recruiting events (on top of actually missing those events, being late for practice, the strip club, two DV allegations). Police officers often use the phrase "the totality of the circumstances," which applies here. The lying was borderline fire-worthy on its own, and in concert with everything else, should certainly have resulted in his termination, divorce or no divorce.
Meyer suspended Hyde for three games for an allegation (no conviction, no charges, no arrest) for what video showed was less than what Smith admits to. I guarantee that a player repeatedly missing or being late to practices and/or meetings would be suspended. And if Meyer found out a player lied about the reason for absence/tardiness? A suspension at least. Similar offenses by ZS? Nothing. And then add in the strip club incident, which would have reflected poorly on the program had the press gotten ahold of it. Shouldn't a coach be held to a higher standard than a player?
The allegations, the lying, the missed events, & tardiness all tie into a nasty divorce. It’s not uncommon for people to receive leniency in these situations. I have a coworker who went through a nasty divorce got strung out on pills & started pulling several stunts akin to ZS & the. had a full blown mental breakdown on site. She’s still with us. The idea that leniency in these situations is unheard of is just ridiculous.
Key factor in this situation is the media. Hyde was on camera getting in a woman’s face then swiping at her even if in self defense. The situation was a media nightmare by the time Urban was made aware of it. Not comparable situations in the slightest. Furthermore what did Smith admit to? Being a terrible husdband. I don’t recall an OSU player getting suspended for being a bad boyfriend? Hell J.T. faced similar allegations & received no punishment whatsoever.
Regarding #3, you are the one with the inside sources, are your sources telling you this about Drake? Because if this is true, it makes it incredibly hard to continue to support this university.
"I love football. I think its the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose" - Woody Hayes
Yes. They could’ve handled this just like MSU did. Call Urban, ask Urban if he reported it. Call Gene verify that statement. Ask Urban about his comments, get clarification. Hold a press conference explaining the mix-up in detail & move on. Ignore the media, ignore McMurphy. Drake didn’t want that.
That is incredibly disappointing to hear. Will there be any repercussions for Drake because of this?
Possibly in the long run. He definitely made a shit ton of powerful enemies. He knew the BoT didn’t want to make the issue worse & he played his hand strong. Imagine if the headlines were Urban Meyer reinstated immediately, President is fired or resigned. The media has a field day, Drake potentially runs to them, the “win at any cost” crowd sharpens their pitch forks. Regardless, it’s usually not a good idea to hold your bosses hostage.
Urban knew that Zach Smith was not at scheduled recruiting visits despite logging them in as visits with the athletic department accounting offices. That alone should have gotten Smith fired. Urban simply scolded him about it and told him not to let it happen again or "he'd be fired."
He personally paid for and took Zach Smith to an addiction center to be treated for an addiction to an ADD medication and did not tell Gene or compliance or HR that he had an employee with a drug addiction problem who was missing work. That is directly in the report.
He didn't tell Gene Smith that Zach Smith had been arrested in 2009 while he was a graduate assistant in Fla under Urban at the time when he wanted to hire Smith. It didn't show up in the background check and OSU hired him. Urban has a duty to protect OSU and divulge what he knows regarding police issues with a potential hire.
Read the report.
I guess our rationalities don't mesh on this one.
What I see in your ideas, is contrary to what was reported by the committee. Myer through his allegiance and love for EB, kept zs on his staff and couldn't bring himself to discipline him, for what he himself thought were transgressions. I guess he threatened to fire him a couple of times, if you ever do this again, or if I find out you did hit.. but I'd be curious to see zs's discipline record under myer, I'd guess it was rather clean. Myer didn't report the club activity to his boss, in spite of his claim of always reporting staff etc. to his bosses wherever he had been, that's now an ncaa invest. He didn't have to fire those coaches, but he should have disciplined them. It's possible he didn't want the info out in public, and an ncaa invest would have put it in the public domain.
The invest was started after myer's answers at media day and because of mcgruff's report. At that point osu had to find out the timeline of what and when myer knew about zs alleged dv, who was told and what was done about it. The invest then followed the path where the questions and answers led it, an assistant coach behaving badly over a long period of time, under the watch of the man being investigated.
You can say that most people deserve leniency in these type of situations, but the committee suggests that myer's relationship with EB blinded his decision making when it came to disciplining zs. I find that summation highly plausible. Drake gave the media, and myer, what the invest revealed, a suspension for the man in charge of the entire football program, who wasn't in fact, in control of zs.
There's many on here that would disagree with your calls for leniency for one going through what zs was going through, even less so with a track record of a previous dv in his history. If anything one would keep an eye out for ANY rumors of that type of subsequent behavior and would act immediately and forcefully to ensure it wasn't happening again. That would raise a red flag in anyone's eyes knowing past behavior. Why not report it to compliance, the allegation, like he was contractually required to do? It would clear myer and zs, if nothing was found through that invest. One thing you don't do, is be so lenient that you give zs enough of a leash that he hangs himself and you with that leniency. According to the committee, that is exactly what took place. I don't disagree with their summation.
I just read this
He's so fast he makes fast people look, not fast
Apparently there's no more loyalty in this world. You can no longer try to be supportive of friends/employees going through difficult times in life. At the first sign of trouble, a coach/manager is expected to fire a subordinate. Showing no empathy and no compassion for the employee. This is the world we live in today. It's crazy and unbelievable. If you don't fire immediately you're at risk of being scrutinized by the media. Then your job is at stake. Absolutely crazy.
If you don't fire immediately you're at risk of being scrutinized by the media.
I think "vilified by the media" would be the more accurate phrase.
The only good thing about The Game is winning it - Urban Meyer
This is a witch hunt by vulture reporters who won't be happy till Urban is gone and OSU is on probation.
I sincerely hope Urban answers every media question from here on out with "No Comment" or something of the sort. I don't care if they ask him what he had for lunch, "No Comment". or "Hey Coach, your team is up 24-0 at half, how do you think your QB is doing?" "No Comment".
Urban Meyer are good people and good people can make mistakes. Urban I feel followed protocol by reporting this 2015 incident to Gene Smith and the University at least all he knew about it. He was untruthful at the media press day because he didn't know all the specific facts about the issue. Speaking to those idiots and making an incorrect statement about the investigation would be suicide for Urban not knowing the facts. They would have twisted and turned it the way they wanted it so bad that by the time they're done they'd say Urban committed the domestic violence! I guess that day he should have said "I can't make any comments on the incident" because he did his job by reporting to Smith and the University.
"I guess that day he should have said "I can't make any comments on the incident" because he did his job by reporting to Smith and the University."
You need to read the report more closely. He didn't report what he knew to Gene or the University regarding the 2015 allegations. The Powell PD contacted the athletic department's Title IX officer to report Courtney's allegations and Zach Smith's statements to them. The Title IX officer contacted Gene, who called Zach Smith, supposedly on a recruiting trip, and called him back to OSU to discuss it. Gene called Urban to tell him. Zach told them that he hadn't physically assaulted Courtney and Gene, Urban, and Title IX officer decided amongst themselves that since no charges where filed, they would let it drop, which they did. No one else at OSU was notified about this situation, which is one of the points of recommendation brought up in the report. The investigators and outside fact finding committee recommend that OSU clarify it's reporting and follow up requirements since it is vague and the committee found that people such as Gene, Urban, and the Title IX officer simply thought since no charges were filed, that was the end of it. In reality, it needed to be written up fully, and both HR and OSU legal should have been notified and a resolution sought, or a continued follow up.
Urban at Big Ten media days said he "didn't know anything about the 2015 allegations and was referring to the media statement that said Zach had been arrested on felony charges, (which wasn't true). He made it sound, inadvertently per the committee, that he didn't know anything about the police being called on Smith, when in truth, he did know about it, and furthermore, had talked the night before Media days about what he should say regarding the 2015 allegations with Gene and the PR guy for the AD. Said he forgot , which was then blamed on a medication he takes that can cause memory lapses.
This is all in the report.
Urban Meyer is good people? When is the last time you and Urban got together? Let’s be honest you know nothing about Urban other than he wins football games and has a good looking family. Period
Plus “good people” get fired from their jobs everyday when they F up
i would imagine there are more unflattering things about Zack Smith that Urban does know that we dont than the other way around. I would not go so far as to say a boss needs to know all him employees personal business but if he hires one with Zacks track record, it is his own fault if he doesn't
All I can say is
In Antoine Winfield I trust
How did we get to the point of calling CS a victim? All indications point to her at a minimum being a volatile person who is prone to be less than truthfull. As big of a creep as ZS may be, I hope he and his lawyer pursue legal action to the fullest extent they can. I also wonder how long it would take for Urban's phone to ring with a job offer from one of these "outraged" media outlets should he depart OSU. The hypocrisy is astounding to me.
Didn't you guys know its cool to be reactionary and provide #takes while pushing a false narrative? These clowns are still going on about DV when there were no charges....
Fighting the good fight in SEC country. "Our honor defend"
Only Place I will be reading anything related to this matter is here now and a couple other spots. But I have not turned on Sports TV once or looked online since Yesterday! After last night I looked and I clicked off right away! LOL
I do want to Thank u guys again for posting good stuff here. The Humor is what makes me come back too! I think we will have an amazing season. These kids are gonna play hard this year. They do every year. But this season is already starting out Crazy. So I am sure this season is going to be one that we will always remember. All the craziness aside I see these players coming out and playing their hearts out. Also to shut the damn media up.. lol Look out world. Urban and the BOYS are coming....
Go Buckeyes! #TeamUrban..
They might as well have been chanting “shame, shame, shame” when they forced urban out on stage last night. Absolute joke of a presser. I just wish Urbs would’ve taken a page out of Marshawn Lynch’s media playbook.
It’s a shame that in 2018, one cannot openly and fairly say “I doubted and continue to doubt the veracity of Courtney Smith’s allegations.” Instead, we gloss over her credibility, assume OSU “mishandled” DV allegations, and wait patiently until the white knights run out of steam.
Oh hi Mark.
I too am guilty of being loyal to a fault at times. Sometimes it comes back to bite us. I truly feel like Meyer's heart was in the right place, whether his head was or not. Let's not forget where the real blame lies, the toxic couple. For the record, I am not a Meyer apologist. I've never been as fond of him as a man as I was Coach Tressel but He continues to grow on me and I wholeheartedly disagree with his suspension. Human nature for me would be to do exactly as he did, right or wrong, as in, not bring light to a negative situation involving someone that you truly believe wasn't at fault. It's unfortunate.
Since there is nothing we can do to change the situation I am ready to shift my focus to football and I'm super excited to see what Day brings to the table with just He and Wilson collaborating on the offense. Go BUCKS
I agree with the suspension after reading the report. He doesn't deserve to be fired, but he probably shouldn't have given Zach so many chances. I have two questions:
1: Does anyone think that this gives Urban a short leash?
2: Does anyone think that there is the possibility that more things will come out?
Great questions. Yes to #1 (though it won't be evident publicly) and yes to #2, though I think this is where the law of diminishing returns kicks in.
Well I believe Urban and his loyalty claim. He done the same thing with JT Barrett. Kept him way to long.
One: Has it been determined by any person, police department or committee that Courtney Smith is an actual victim of domestic abuse or is it like her OWN mother said and she has not been fully transparent and honest with her allegations.
Two: Until "One" (see above) has been determined, why would Urban apologize to Courtney Smith, in a very public forum, thereby giving her attorneys fuel for a civil lawsuit against him????
Three: If Ohio State pays Courtney Smith any kind of settlement money without "One" being concretely determined , I will never give the school another cent of my hard earned money.
While I am relieved that urban is still the head football coach at Ohio State, i feel like he could have done a way better job at the presser last night than he did. I understand he was probably upset and disagreed with the decision, the whole thing was just uncomfortable to watch. That being said though I think that Tim May asked the best question of the night when he asked Gene Smith point blank if it was Urban’s responsibility to report what they knew about ZS to compliance, and Gene Smith replied that “It was my responsibility.” Tim should have followed up on it
I don't like nice people. I like tough, honest people. Woody Hayes
When am I going to see Haskins throwing bombs in practice? This Meyer reporting is such yesterday’s news. Show me the football team grinding to set the stage for a couple championships this year.
The question "What message do you have for Courtney Smith" is an example of why people get annoyed by the media. That is a "gotcha" question, with no acceptable answer from Meyer, and, perhaps more importantly, no valid moral/logical point for Meyer to consider even if he dodged it. What is Meyer supposed to say "Sorry the Powell PD didn't justify your concerns/65 911 calls with an arrest?".
I pulled up James Laurenitus on my phone and listened on the App after Golic, because StL radio then babbles on 11 hours about the Cardinals. I agree with the take he should have been fired for being a bad coach like Tim Beck. I am paraphrasing.
9/1/2018 in 9 days away.. Buckeye Nation,,,to hell with the national media... ESPN is now the known as the sports version of the THE VIEW. Coach Urban Meyer we stand with you. See you on the sidelines soon.
Oregon St. : nothing personal
and ichigan still SUX
I feel like there's a narriative that somehow UM and the university could have stopped domestic violence. If ZS did abuse his wife would not being a coach at OSU stopped that from happening. If ZS had never even been a football coach would that have stopped him from abusing his wife. I just don't understand how not being a coach would've stopped his DV. I just ask myself how would CS's life been different if ZS had never been hired by OSU?
God help us all if we have reached the point where a failure to fire a poor performing employee costs us 3 weeks of our salary
Honest question. Have you read the report? Do you really think the decision was all about Smith’s DV allegations and/or poor performance. After reading the report with its painstaking details. I don’t. But that’s probably not the popular opinion.
Having read it, I would respond there was an AWFUL lot of tolerance for a grown azz man (with poor performance and minimal professionalism), that was considerably more than the ZERO TOLERANCE afforded to the young men who sacrifice their time, blood, sweat, tears and injured body to play a game they enjoy, that entertains us!
May not be popular opinion! But the Report is now part of history and lays certain facts bare to be seen!
I was okay with the three-game suspension until I read the report. Then I was filled with disgust -- at Meyer, Zach and Gene Smith and the university, pretty much everyone involved. First of all, based on that report, there is no question in my mind Meyer should have been fired. The highly paid law firm delivered enough weasel-worded bullshit to choke a horse -- and allow OSU to get off the hook. The report said Meyer lied like four times, yet he never intentionally lied. Meyer never told Gene Smith about the crap at Florida when they hired Zach. Slipped his mind? Meyer said he met with Courtney Smith when he obviously did not, according to the report. The investigators said that despite their denials, they're pretty sure that Shelly told Urban about the 2015 alleged abuse, which should have been all they needed to fire Meyer. Then the investigators had to throw in that Meyer takes medication that makes him forget. Jeezus H. Excuse behavior much? Whether Meyer knew all the shit that Zach Smith was involved in, the report says Gene Smith urged Meyer to fire him in 2015 or 2016. That failure to fire Smith is followed by a litany of other horrendous crap perpetrated by Zach, and an admission to a drug treatment facility. That begs the question of why Gene Smith was not fired along with Meyer. He should have forced the issue or fired Smith himself. After the crap hit the fan this July, Brian Voltolini discusses deleting emails with Meyer. Whether they did or not, the fact that they discussed it is mind-boggling. Why does Voltolini have a job?
It's funny, it seems like Meyer cannot even tell a good lie. He says he reported stuff to Gene Smith, who was supposed to take it up the ladder to compliance. Yet the report says Miechelle Willis, then the Deputy Title IX Coordinator for the Athletics Department, got the news from campus police about the 2015 DV stuff, who got it from Powell police. She then told Gene Smith, who told Urban. So which is it? And why does Miechelle Willis still have a job if she does?
Why does Shelly Smith still have a job as nursing coordinator or whatever she does? I read that she had the same Title IX reporting duties that the rest of them had. She should be out of a job.
In the long-run, Meyer's credibility is shot and the university takes a massive PR hit for not doing the right thing. How can Meyer with a straight face ever approach the family of another recruit and talk about his values and accountability? What do the current players think of him? He can talk about Real Life Wednesday 'til kingdom come. It doesn't remove the stench of his horrible decision-making and his lack of contrition. Why would you believe anything he said at this point?
His performance at the press conference was inexcusable. You can argue he shouldn't have been at it in the first place, but if you're gonna do it, show some humility. Be thankful that you're not out on your ass based on what the report found. Act like you mean what you're saying. I know you all hate Finebaum, but saying he came across like a hostage reading a prepared statement pretty much hit the nail. No emotion, except the anger emitting from his pores. He had a chance to come across as a human being when asked about Courtney Smith. Nope. Could have said something like, DV is a serious issue, and even though we weren't sure any abuse had taken place, I was remiss in not taking it more seriously and I hope she's okay.
OSU should have cleaned house and turned the reins over to Day. This cloud will hang over the school and the football team for a long time. I'll still be rooting for them to make the playoffs, but it will be with a lot less enthusiasm.
From just reading the report it looks pretty bad. I am wondering if Urban's punishment was not worse because the committee knew Courtney Smith had serious problems muddying the waters for Urban to see clearly that Smith should be gone. But the committee could not say anything negative about Courtney Smith or they would be seriously criticized by the media. Just wondering if her conduct played a role in the final decision.
I love Meyer, and am happy that he was not fired. Last night, I was initially upset with suspension, but after reading the full report I understand why Drake insisted on a suspension. There are some cringe worthy things in that report.
This has been a tough one... At the end of the day, we are fortunate UFM is still the coach. I agree with others that he could have just as easily been fired. His two best friends going forward had better be the HR and Compliance/Legal offices. Report everything and let them do their jobs!!!
As far as what he said and didn't say at the presser, or how he said or didn't say it, wouldn't be surprised if CS's attorneys are hanging on every word spoken by UFM and GS to find some justification for a civil action. (You can't make this $hit Up - Ok, maybe you can "McMurph Style").
Loved how there has been no mention in the real world media of Ms. White's comments on erroneous (more like disingenuous) reporting. BM also needs to be held accountable for the firestorm created after the inaccurate reporting.
I hope we destroy everyone on the schedule this year! Wonder if we can locate a Finebaum tackle dummy for the D to tune up on while we're at it!!!
Urban got screwed. It’s amazing how the hacks at ESPN never mention the stories about Courtney Smith’s parents denying her allegations, oh and the police denying them. They just act like it’s a fact that she’s a victim.
Exactly, they are tailoring the narrative to suit their spin, so sick of ESPN. Would be great if we could flush the TV relationship with them and just go to Fox. They won't get around to ever doing a comprehensive "Honest" story that really includes all of the story.
One Team, One Fight - One Buckeye Nation.
I have gotten to the point where I think with all the backlash, reporters are going to dig for more. Urban’s phone records will be legally requested and the truth with eventually come out. This will take him down . There is so much shame. I can’t watch him on our sidelines. Just sad .
Urban is and always will be my guy.
Good job on the piece. A well written, balanced and fact-based article.
On to football, then.
In the meantime, NC players sell their Air Jordan’s and they got one game suspensions and a paragraph of press. OSU became “tattoo gate” for the same offense. I’m so tired of the haters. Glad Meyer is a free man September 2. NCAA has no business sticking their nose in this. Good luck getting hired Courtney.
90% of what Meyer did, I don't think deserves punishment. However, the instant concern of removing text messages that were over a year old is the really concerning part to me. I honestly think if it wasn't for that little wrinkle, he wouldn't have been suspended. Now he may not have had anything in the text messages that would have divulged any additional information, but with this admission in the reports, you know the press will be digging for anything and everything they can, to get access or find out what were in these since deleted text messages. Which also surprises me that in this day and age, there isn't technology available that will back up text messages to a school database for instances like this. Or even to the NCAA for that matter. Seems like it would be a lot more competent way to limit NCAA violations or investigate them for that matter. Just the optics of trying to clear the old text messages, is a bad look, ultimately I think that is why we're seeing the 3 game suspension.
Just no winners here. Not OSU, Courtney, Urban the team even Ryan Day..... I do not know how one can prepare for such an event. urban made a mistake at the media day. he only had a day to process it, but he opened the door for the controversy. I love him, his family and have my bobble head urban on my desk. I would not want his job for.....$40million..... we shall learn from this and grow.... I was skeptical of Drake as he is from California and a pure academic but I think it was handled well by all parties... as the father of two women.... and a Buckeye fan for 50 years I think OSU did the right thing... GBBM
Because I could not go for three!