Once a Buckeye, Always a Buckeye
Because I couldn't go for three
Closing in on 100. Whether it will matter or not is anyone's guess.
The fire Drake people are idiots. If you haven't read the report, read it again. A suspension was absolutely warranted and Drake did the right thing pushing for it, if that is indeed what happened.
You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.
This, exactly. I expected Meyer to be reinstated immediately, and coaching in the afternoon. However, the committee's report completely justifies the sanctions issued. Ohio State is fortunate Dr. Drake is a man of integrity and principle, and hopefully Gene Smith and Urban Meyer specifically, and the university more generally use this experience to make Ohio State a better and better university.
The only report I need to read the is police report. How dumb are people that they can just ignore the facts and spin this into something it's not.
There was no abuse.
She is a scorned woman.
Set him up.
Her own mother agrees.
Then end. Go f yourself.
How very 1970's of you.
It sounds like you have very little understanding of how the criminal justice system and domestic violence actually works in the real world, which is why you write this.
No one is saying Urban committed DV or that he even tolerates it. He has responsibilities that are separate from those of law enforcement as a high level employee of an education of higher learning. You may not think that should be the case, but it is, and ignoring that fact isn't helpful to this discussion.
BTW, and so it is clear, I think it would have been a travesty if he was fired, because he has had an exemplary track record at OSU (at least as far as we know) and I don't think one slip in judgement warrants a dismissal. But you bottom lining it as you have shows you don't really have a full grasp of the issues involved.
it's preposterous to decide that domestic abuse allegations make someone unemployable at a university.
if you think that the criminal justice system is ill-equipped to handle domestic violence, vote to change the laws; don't impose arbitrary and undefined rules on people that only get applied when the story gets big enough.
Absolutely. If there wasn't enough evidence for professional investigators, people who do this for a living, to enable them to arrest let alone charge ZS with anything, why is it up to a coach to do anything more?
Good lord this is insanity. Urban has a right to be pissed and he owes absolutely nothing to CS.
"The future is bright at Ohio State." - Urban Meyer 1/1/15
Fucking right, Nm. Jesus, overreaction much by media
I work at a university and would never hire someone who had a domestic violence allegation show up on a background check. And I am confident that that is the prevailing view at my institution, and most others. It's not preposterous at all.
It's really not that hard to avoid being accused of domestic violence.
Would you still feel the same way if someone made a false allegation against you? It's not that hard to avoid being accused of (fill in the blank)? how many men are accused of rape that never happened? Am I reading your comment correctly?
You’re reading it correctly. It’s pretty amazing logic.
I work at a university and would never hire someone who had a domestic violence allegation show up on a background check. And I am confident that that is the prevailing view at my institution, and most others. It's not preposterous at all.
Uh, yeah, duh, it’s no secret that those in academia circles have selective biases.
Seriously? Before July of this year, I didn't have as much as a speeding ticket on my record. Unfortunately, a onetime female friend and employee attacked me for a sustained period on the evening of June 22. I would have fled immediately but my 86-year-old mother, who suffers from advanced dementia, was sitting in a recliner in the room. The girl, a polypharmacy case, who has been prescribed two opioids, is large, physically strong and known for her raging temper, and unpredictability; something we learned too late. With a neighbor's help, I was able to remove myself from the situation and we casually engaged local law enforcement officials to ensure that she, the woman who attacked me, did not approach my family again, and move, with ample time allowed, from an apartment on our property. Sadly, despite the fact she sent me an email in which she apologized and admitted she lost self-control and exhibited extreme anger, a couple of weeks later, after multiple visits to the local magistrate office, she convinced one of the magistrates to file both criminal and civil assault charges against me. Though I was arrested, both cases were eventually dismissed because she failed to appear. An attorney is in the process of having the charges expunged from my record, but that takes time and is quite expensive. Thankfully, I have been self-employed for over 30 years and haven't faced the repercussions that a publicly employed person or a person in the public eye would have faced, but I seriously resent the fact that our legal system gives so much power to unstable, and vindictive people who are willing to lie under oath. I have spent nearly 58 years building a decent reputation and that reputation has been tarnished to some degree, despite the fact that I did not retaliate and handled a dangerous situation as well as could be expected.
To make another point, regardless of my experience, I think it's ludicrous for a leader like Mary Jo White to assume that university officials can investigate alleged crimes and weigh evidence in a manner superior to seasoned and professional law enforcement officials. Despite his status, I am confident that Zach Smith would have been arrested and charged for assault if the law enforcement officials involved gathered one shred of evidence to support his ex's claims. The bottom line is that he was never convicted, though his behavior elsewhere raises serious questions about his maturity and character.
Sam, thank you for your comment. Sorta personal, not easy to share I'm sure. But it's an anecdote that really does shed some light about how these things can get out of control.
It was a catch.
I agree with you mostly, but the media isn’t talking about Meyer doing more with allegations. The media is saying that the abuse happened, that Meyer knew it, that if he says he didn’t he’s lying, and that he just didn’t care that Courtney Smith was a battered wife. This is the narrative that have people pushing back, in some very awkward ways.
"Woody would have wanted it that way"
yes, virtually all of this backlash is predicated in the certainty that courtney smith was abused, when there is a very high likelihood (though not a certainty) that she's lying through her teeth.
Actually, the national sports media types are saying exactly that: that Urban looks the other way (i.e., tolerates) DV if the guy allegedly committing it is the grandson of someone he loves.
It is 2018. Evolve with the rest of us.
It is 2018. Evolve with the rest of us
What do you even mean?
Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!
It's the current year! lol
If you have a better argument, make it. Until then...
Because I couldn’t go for three
Stop posting this, it's embarrassing.
I don't think we should fire Dr Drake.
He has made many missteps and mistakes, but they don't warrant removing him from office.
He should only be suspended without pay for one semester.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
Dude, seriously stop posting this shit..how stupid are you?..you think Drake is the problem? Cmon man, take ur head out of ur ass.
Love the game over any team fandom.
Buck80, who are you calling a "dude"? Are you talking to me? Chill man. I don't keep posting this, I'm not stupid, and my head is not up my rear. Cool it. Aloha?
This narrative was written long before the outcome. The national media was going to crucify Meyer and Ohio State no matter what happened. If they fired him, we would be hearing about how they waited too long to do this and it should’ve been done along time ago, if they let them go with no punishment it would again be about how the University turned a blind eye to Domestic violence, and now that they suspended him The narrative is again how it is not sufficient. Fact is, this narrative was written a long time ago to go with the national media‘s narrative, and bias against Meyer. It goes back to his time at Florida and the Hernandes matter. No matter what happens, the media has a goal to take Meyer down as the worst person in America. If urban would have mistakenly parked in a handicapped parking spot, they would Be a concerted effort amongst the national media to get him removed.
These people are not reporters they are trying to frame a story and do not care who is taken down by it in their quest to create the story
Precisely this. The mock outrage and feigned concern for someone who they don't even know (and frankly really don't give two shits about) is sickening. I knew this would happen, and if I were Meyer, when talks happen about extending my contract or renegotiating any aspect of it, I would politely say, "no thanks".
I personally would say something more like, "shove it up your ass" and then give them a double bird, but that's just me. I think he deserves better.
Life is full of choices. Make good ones.
Exactly! They couldn't care less about CS or due process. It's all about the money via advertisements and trying to take down anyone who is highly successful.
The police dont care about CS either because like her own mother they know shes full of shit.
Have you read the report? I have read it twice. There is no avoiding that it was poor judgment to hire Smith in 2011, and he didn't tell his employers about the 2009 incident. He admitted he should have done more with the 2015 incident (at the very least he didn't report it appropriately to the Title IX coordinator), and he bungled the press conference which caused all of this (he was told by Gene Smith how to handle these questions, didn't handle it correctly, and didn't acknowledge the email). He didn't deserve to be fired, but people acting like he is blameless and a victim here are very misguided. This punishment, given his excellent track record here, is about right. If he wants to walk after this contract, that is his choice. I hope he doesn't, but that is up to Urban.
Nobody is blameless. There is always something we could do better and hindsight is 20/20. The point is, no matter what the outcome, the national media would not have been happy unless they had Meyer's scalp and even then, they would still not have been happy.
I don't have an issue with the suspension, Meyer made some bad decisions in the hiring and retention of Smith. Someone who should have been let go years prior because he was a crappy coach.
The national media cares nothing about Courtney Smith, Zach Smith, Urban Meyer or any of their families. It is the narrative that matters. nothing more.
I don't disagree with you. I think some have become obsessed with the national media, and, because of what you write, I don't understand why. This article was the only thing I have read reflecting outside views. Some on here are following ESPN damn near 24-7 and I don't get it. Their business model is to generate clicks by creating steamin' hot takes and fake controversy. Why get worked up about it? I don't eat at bad restaurants over and over and keep complaining about the quality of the food.
He admitted he should have done more with the 2015 incident (at the very least he didn't report it appropriately to the Title IX coordinator)
Are you sure you read that report twice?
he bungled the press conference which caused all of this (he was told by Gene Smith how to handle these questions, didn't handle it correctly, and didn't acknowledge the email)
I have to question whether you did read the report at this point. The first person to learn about 2015 was the T9 Coordinator for the Athletic Department.
He admitted he should have done more with the 2015 incident
basically with a gun to his head. What should he have done? No one seems to want to answer that question.
You are correct sir. He didn't read the report.
"Woody is a God-fearing man. It's good to know that he's afraid of somebody."
Welcome to today’s world JD. People will bend, massage, and mold anything to make it fit the narrative that they desire.
You are correct. Read further in the report where it was suggested he was still required to fill out a written report (I will admit that seems odd because the source of the info started with the title IX coordinator, went to Gene, then to Urban).
Gene sent him an email the night before telling him how to handle the 2015 incident at the B1G Ten presser. Urban didn't do as instructed and didn't respond to Gene's email.
Did you read it?
What Urban have done? He should have told Gene Smith about the 2009 incident, if not when Zach Smith was hired, certainly in 2015, so Gene Smith could make better informed decisions about matters concerning Zach Smith. He should have fired Zach Smith after Smith took a high school coach to a strip bar while on a recruiting trip. He should have fired Zach Smith after Smith skipped recruiting assignments and lied about it. He should have remembered his primary responsibility as the head coach of the Buckeyes was to the university, not to Earle Bruce. None of that would have been easy, but it is what Meyer should have done. Hopefully, he'll move forward, learn from his mistakes, and make our university a better place.
Mind you, none of this excuses the atrociously biased, sensational and suddenly inaccurate reporting seen on many of the news outlets. There is s proper story to be told, but most seem too attached to their agendas to report it.
You left out telling his employers in 2011 that there was an allegation that Smith slammed his pregnant wife into the wall where charges were not brought. The committee said this, but in this day and age, it is common knowledge that no charges/convictions does not mean nothing happen in the DV arena. Honestly, he took a huge risk bring Smith in in terms of potential future embarrassment to the University, and I don't think this is Monday morning quarterbacking. If you have experience dealing with DV cases or people who have gone through it, you know that it often isn't one isolated event and that charges are often not brought.
Of course I have read the report. I don't know what that has to do with my statement.
I am not saying that Urban or anyone was blameless, or that the university mishandled anything. I actually happen to think they got it mostly right. What I AM saying, though, is that there isn't anyone, especially with the amount of money Urban's got, who needs this kind of shit in their lives. As an employer and manager of people, my take is that the direction that this whole area of employee/employer relations is taking approaches overreach, and it is making (and will make) people turn into things that they really probably shouldn't be.
There's no statement here that I am trying to bend to my narrative. I am saying that people really need to be careful what they ask of people in positions of authority, because pretty soon no one will want to take these positions.
I should have made it clear that I was talking to OSU_JD who accused me of not reading it, then making statements evidencing he didn't have a grasp of some of the details in the report. I would have expected he would have better reading comprehension skills if he earned a JD.
Got it - not trying to stir anything up. FTN70. All good.
I read the report too, sped read thru' it only once. My reading comprehension is pretty good.
I wish the mods would nuke all non football related posts. Let's get down to business.
Did you see the topic of this thread? Not sure your suggesting makes any sense. If you aren't interested in this discussion, then make your way to forums that are discussing football issues. Not complicated.
Read the report again. Title IX knew, reviewer it. I think they may have been the ones that told Gene Smith.
Lets just give urban capital punishment, right? Makes as much sense as your clown argument
I think all those that are coming after Ohio State right now better be damn careful in their words. If they are calling Ohio State a cesspool, and we value "wins over morality" - I hope they check their own house first. Zach Smith was out there - but he is hardly the first and only one. There are tons of Zach Smiths on campuses across America. Just remember when you point the finger at someone, you have 3 pointing back at you.
By the way - keep piling on. And when the Urban Revenge Tour 2018 comes to your city - don't come crying to us that you weren't warned.........
Bucks Fan since 1970
I am waiting for Paul Finebaum to show me how, if you believed that Zach Smith was being abusive to his wife, why firing him without proof would make him stop?
Has anyone ever theorized that firing an abuser will make him/her stop the abuse?
I also don't get why the media keeps saying that CS wasn't mentioned "until we asked about it" (ESPN was quite proud of themselves this morning for asking the 'tough' questions)?? The first speaker was Mary Jo White and she laid it out there.
And, after acknowledging that this whole thing started with a DV allegation, then you don't need to mention it again. We're not having a presser or panel discussion on "How to Stop Domestic Violence". We're talking about reporting violations within an athletic department.
We are not analyzing the Smiths' marriage. We are not talking about Courtney's possible bad behavior. We're just talking about how to run an athletic department people!
Let ESPN dedicate a few hours' programming a week on DV issues. that's fine. it's a good topic, but it's just not "juicy" unless it's tied into someone like Urban Meyer somehow.
It's like they're mad because Urban didn't confess to physically abusing Courtney Smith. I mean, that happened, right?
Your mistake is wasting time with Finebaum. Good God my friend, why? Do you know who is audience is?
Very well said OB. You put a lot of my thoughts down on epaper that I couldn’t articulate as eloquently as you did.
Excellent post, Joebobb. I am curious how much others believe Meyer’s “affiliations” play into the hatred that he is receiving from ESPIN and others with affiliations that are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Would also like to hear opinions on how Jameis Winston was able to play through his college career, win a Natty and a Heisman and be drafted first round in NFL when evidence that he raped a young woman is far far stronger than evidence that ZS abused his wife. How did FSU and Jimbo not take an even worse hit than what Urban is taking?
Make it stop.
Ohio State vs the world.
Fuck the world!
I mean, it is to be expected. Tomorrow there will be less and so on and so on.
"Khajiit has wares if you have the coin."
Screw the pundits.
You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!
I am so glad I can think for myself, and not be dependent of some halfwit, ill informed, former athlete, or faux journalist to tell me what I think.
I can listen and understand what is being said and form my own opinion, based on what is presented as fact, by those who actually conducted the investigation.
These so-called pundits only share what suites their narrative, which is partial truth at best, as they recite a script provided to them, so they can pretend to share their opinion which is nothing more than the company line.
It is the essence of #fakenews. It is everywhere
This whole thing is a mess. I know when you first hear "Domestic Violence" almost everyone jumps on the womans side. FACT: women can be as violent and aggressive as men can be. Nobody but Zach and Courtney Smith knows what really went on inside their home. Courtneys own mother stated that she was very aggressive with Zack and would instigate many of the altercations and try to stop him from leaving the home.
A man gets punched in the face by his wife and then restrains her and the whole world sees her red marks by her neck...shes been abused and beaten. Then, looks at the man and sees a black eye and thinks he fights with everyone and is just an aggressive, violent man, never thinking it was the woman who could have possibly done that. I lived this life with a violent, aggressive woman for two years before I realized I could not help her and got out of the relationship. She would punch, kick, scratch, shout and even spit. So for those of you calling for a Meyer apology to C Smith, you don't know what really happened. Maybe the apology should be to Zach? I know he isn't innocent in all of this but guess what...I don't know what happened and neither does anyone else!
I wouldn't expect my employer to get involved in my personal life and if Courtney was truly crying out for help it should have started by pressing charges against her husband with the police, not saying Urban didn't do anything. Over fifty 911 calls...was it just another day in the toxic Smith marriage or just "crying wolf" or a real problem? Whatever it was, it was their problem to fix...not Urbans. End of rant
"I don't wanna coach average! To hell with that!" -UFM
they are taking the stand that their audience wants and expects
no on is FOR domestic violence
I’m disgusted with the national media right now.
Hello, my name is Rico and I like to party.
Just right now? Been a long time in the making.
Well, just more than before.
Because they are saying things you don't agree with or things you don't want to hear?
Things I don’t agree with. Should Smith have been fired? Yes. Should Urban have his character destryoed over it? No.
Let’s be honest, it is both. I don’t agree, and I don’t want to hear it. That’s why I mostly don’t pay atttention. It is all noise. Soon they will move on and beat on someone else.
Entirely the former.
The report cleared him from covering up domestic abuse. Did you miss that? Cleared him entirely. The only thing related to the original issue they dinged him on was not reporting it to Compliance. And just what was Compliance going to do? Send in HR Swat Teams to throw stun grenades at Zach Smith?
No one in the National Media is asking the pertinent question here: when the investigators say this:
And Coach Meyer and AD Smith did not try to determine whether Courtney Smith might have been right in accusing Zach of domestic violence. They both believed Zach’s denials and relied on law enforcement or court action to rebut those denials. To be sure, as Coach Meyer and AD Smith told us, they do not themselves investigate allegations of wrongdoing; they appropriately leave that to the experts, including law enforcement. But their responsibilities do not end there.
what does that mean? What other responsibilities do they have? If they don't investigate...and they reported it to the correct people...what else are they supposed to have done?
Regardless, only a firing would have satisfied the 'hindsight expectations' the Media have conveniently decided upon. And even then, as others have noticed, the firing would not have happened quickly enough.
The way the media is reporting things today. My take from ESPN is that Urban is guilty of covering up for DV and the committee is still covering up things. Also that Urban Meyer is Adolph Hitler.
Because they aren't being honest, they're playing on emotions, not facts.
It. Is. Time.
They definitely do not let the facts get in the way of a self righteous rant... if you listen to then many do not even have the facts straight... they just don't care...
I don’t even want to hear this crap. Ohio State continually screwed this up from a PR standpoint and a false narrative that was out there is only gathering strength.
Agreed 100%. Putting aside Urban and Gene for a second, if one guy definitely deserves to be fired it's whoever is in charge of PR for these guys. Every single question last night could have been predicted in advance. Why the hell did everyone seem flabbergasted?
That’s what bothered me the most. Urban looked like a hostage when reading his statement. Drake didn’t sound like he believed anything he was saying and Gene was peak Gene. That press conference was embarrassing and all three of them should be suspended for looking like buffoons.
sad but true
Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP
Had they put Zach on Admin Leave and then later fired him, instead of firing him at the outset, this entire thing would have gone better.
Ohio State caves way too easily. They leave themselves no breathing room: had they put Zach Smith on admin leave, then they could have fired him as a result of the investigation. If more stuff comes out? Then they could have suspended Gene or Urban (I guess). Then if it keeps going? You do what you have to do...I suppose. But irrespective of whether anyone is right or wrong, they leave themselves with no room to maneuver. And, to me, that's actually a mark of honesty: they're trying to be fair in an unfair world.
It doesn't help that even our local media is full of folks who are dumb as bricks and are apparently easier to wind up than baby toys.
The story is that Urban made the call to fire Zach. Indeed, it was Gene, according to the report who was more like, well should we consider more...
So are you saying (a) the University should have vetoed Urban's decision to fire for the cumulative things or (b) you don't believe the report?
"National Pundits Weigh in on..."
"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.
The text message fiasco is really concerning. Why would he do that in 2018? Everyone knows these things always come to light. I just don't understand what he was thinking.
If the media was about to get a hold of my phone and access all my texts from the past few years, I would delete some as well. I haven't broken any laws or done anything wrong, but there are private and or slightly embarrassing things I wouldn't want a pundit like McMurphy getting a hold of and take out of context or embarrass me with.
"I love football. I think its the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose" - Woody Hayes
Hell I don't even get many texts but I just went in and set my phone to the same setting because it just makes sense to do so!
McMurphy was on ESPNU radio talking about how he was “deleting public records”. Is anybody dense enough to believe that? Texts are indeed records, and discoverable in litigation, but they are FAR away from public
if that is a public university provided phone, they might be ...
Only the Hildabeast can get away with it
"Son, at Ohio State we run straight for the goal line."
Somehow I doubt it. If so, we’d have reporters filing FOI requests every few days just to find out which recruits Saban is talking to
McMurphy is grasping at any straw he can see. He is a snake-oil salesman and the other national media idiots gobble it up...
Depends who owns the phone and pays the bill. Also, deleted texts can be recovered. If some entitity (FBI, OSU) really wants to see them.
True. Both UM and his wife should probably get new phones. Not that I think he has anything to hide...
Let's ask mcmurphy if we can dive into HIS phone since hmmm let's say back to 2009 eh?
NONE are more hopelessly Enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free!
I think it's a human reaction to do that. Nobody wants their private business to become public...no matter who you are.
Amen!!! Anybody here really trusts the Maggots is not very bright. NO COMMENT!!! NO PHONE!!! Are you kidding me???
Because had things to hide. I don't know why we all have to pretend Meyer is an angel.
Probably so. And no, he’s not and angel. He is not Capone either. He’s a normal human being, and it seems he’s a pretty decent person after all, if you’ve been paying attention to what matters.
I agree. I think the situation was handled poorly on all accounts. This is also major college athletics I’m pretty sure if you dig deep enough in any program you are going dig up some sort of skeleton
Meyer has skeletons in his closet. I am not surprised. We all do questionable things from time to time.
I can see it now - Urban and Shelley got into a text argument about exercise, dinner or what movie to see. All of a sudden the national media turns it into Urban and Shelley have a horrible relationship, urban is abusive, etc. Or it could be normal stuff like maybe he didn't have nice things to say about his employer, his boss, his coaches, his athletes. I wouldn't want that stuff leaking either.
No one thinks he's an angel. Perhaps there were private things he didn't want to become public? Conversations with his wife, conversations about other people, poor language or off-color jokes, etc. These are all perfectly reasonable things someone with an expectation of privacy might not want journalists who are actively targeting him personally and professionally to be able to review.
Nothing private in the past year?
I wouldn't want McMurphy looking through my texts and taking conveniently cropped screenshots to report on as he saw fit.
How about someone look through McMurphy's texts.
He’s a human being. If you go thru anybody’s text messages and history in detail with a comb you’re going to find things. I think it’s clear that number one he was transparent and number two his heart was in the right place. It’s hard to ask for more than that. he made some mistakes with Zak had a soft spot for Him.
Just stop using a company phone. Use your own.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" - Albert Einstein
Burner Phone...full gangsta
Personally I don't understand why people keep text messages for years in the first place. I routinely clear conversations just because they bug me when they pile up. That has nothing to do with this situation I know, but every time a texting scandal comes up it blows my mind they they have these messages from years ago in their account.
aaaand now we're back to why the original accuser had three year old messages so readily available...
That's something you do if you believe the consequences of doing it and being discovered will be less than the consequences of doing nothing and having the texts possibly come out.
That's a bet he seems to have won.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
"Why would he do that in 2018? "
--- Because texts showing his honest feelings about Courtney being a psycho wouldn't go over well.
Most of these media people are just a pimple on the ass of society. Nobody will remember them in 10 years. They have to latch on to a famous person to even be known today.
Glad you used the term `media people` and not journalists. All these people with opinions who are employed by the likes of ESPN, BTN, FoxSports, TheAthletic are just people with opinions who are employed by entertainment companies. That is all.
I would like for just one of the idiots to tell me what more Urban should have done about the DV accusations? When no arrest was made or charges filed? I'm fine with them questioning why he didn't fire Zach sooner for his other questionable behavior, but this narrative that Urban someone how overlooked, hid or didn't care about DV is straight up false.
From the report, the committee felt both Meyer and the AD should have reported the possibility of DV to appropriate compliance folks immediately rather than wait for law enforcement to press charges. I agree with this 1000000%. Aside from the obvious reasons of DV not being something to dismiss, you're ahead of it when/if it blows up.
They state that Gene Smith having knowledge does not remove Meyer's requirement to report because the intention is to be "both broad and redundant".
"Coach Meyer and AD Gene Smith, although acting in good faith, did not report the investigation for domestic violence in 2015 to compliance as we believe they should have,"
And we note that the designated Title IX Coordinator for Athletics (Michelle Willis) was the first person in the Department to learn of the 2015-2016 law enforcement investigation.
it seems to me that there should be others suspended and or reprimanded for not reporting.
Exactly. It Michelle Willis suspended as well for not reporting? This makes no sense and seems like a lousy excuse to pin some blame on Urban so they have a reason for the suspension.
A written reprimand for mismanagement of a bad employee and failing to report would have been entirely reasonable, especially given that it's a first offense for both of them, as far as we know.
This is stupid. First, Deputy Title IX Coordinator for the Athletics Department, Michelle Willis, knew of the police investigation.
In October 2015, Miechelle Willis, then the Deputy Title IX Coordinator for the Athletics Department, received information from the Ohio State Campus Police about the Powell Police investigation; Willis immediately notified AD Smith, who in turn notified Coach Meyer during a football practice that Zach Smith was under investigation for domestic violence and could be arrested at any time.
Who was Meyer supposed to report to? Did Michelle Willis ever document this issue? Second, why then, aren't his assistants also being held to the same standard? Shouldn't they also be suspended?
Per his employment contract, he had a duty to report in writing to the Office of Compliance Services. He didn't do this. Sure the Title IX officer knew and informed Gene, who informed Urban. This is a bureaucracy. Title IX has different jurisdiction and responsibilities than does the Compliance office. I would imagine Compliance is broader and includes NCAA stuff. Title IX is focused only on Title IX. Just because a local DA or police department doesn't believe there is probable cause to arrest doesn't mean a broader investigation wouldn't turn up a red flag or something else that, as an employment matter, is grounds for termination.
“I intend to make Georgia howl.” General William Tecumseh Sherman
He then discussed the matter with the Title XI Compliance Official and Public Safety liaison and Human Resources and he ordered OSU police and OSU officials to monitor the Powell investigation. No OSU official can interfere in a criminal investigation or take steps to make it appear they are influencing an investigation. Powell concluded there was no evidence to support the allegations and we now know this person made false reports on other ocassions.
But the investigation had to find something so they said Gene and Urban should have reported it to Compliance. Really? Compliance handles NCAA matters not domestic violence.
Although already noted in another comment, it appears multiple administrators within HR, Title IX compliance, etc (at least per Gene Smith's attorney). had been informed. Also, are we sure this language was in his 2015 contract? I know this language was included in the 2018 extension but hadn't seen confirmation this type of language about mandatory reporting to "compliance" was in his 2015 contract.
I'm going based on what the investigative report said Urban's employment contract said. I presume it would have been his 2015 contract, but who knows. I think what the investigative committee was getting at was had a "broader" reporting been followed, then perhaps someone elsewhere in the OSU bureaucracy may have said "wait a minute, although there may not have been probable cause for a criminal arrest (per Powell Police/Delaware County Prosecutor) this is a red flag and needs to be addressed."
My biggest issue with Urban was not once, despite all of those red flags and bad behavior of Zach Smith, not once was any of it written up or the subject of discipline. He was the child who got the stern talking to, but no true punishment. We know why it wouldn't have been included in an annual evaluation of Zach Smith - that is a public record. Because of Urban's affinity for and loyalty to Earle Bruce, Urban was protecting Zach and I believe Urban sincerely believed he was protecting Courtney and their kids by keeping the pay checks flowing. I also believe Urban probably sincerely believed he could help Zach re-direct his out of control life in a positive direction. Unfortunately he couldn't, you never can with someone like Zach because he is an addict, and it bit Urban in the ass.
I'm not sure "all of those red flags" aren't just the product of hindsight. First, none of the accusations of domestic violence have been proven to be true. Would it change your opinion of "all of those red flags" if, for the sake of argument, it was demonstrated that the accusations of domestic violence were demonstrably false? Second, the investigative committee's report makes clear that Zach's job performance suffered as a result of a messy and contentious divorce. I think we can all see why, in such a situation, Urban might have tried to offer help rather than outright firing the guy. As far as we can tell from the committee's report, this behavior ended with Urban's reprimand as they do not mention any further episodes beyond late 2015 and early 2016. It seems Urban's "discipline" worked in this instance. Perhaps Urban didn't include it in his review because he felt the problem was resolved? Third, Zach's referral to drug rehab was for a prescription stimulant used to treat ADHD. This is far different than referral for illicit drug or alcohol and one in which Meyer's actions could very reasonably be interpreted as compassionate rather than reckless. Fourth, Zach Smith was a good recruiter. He was good at a main part of his job, but was still the lowest paid assistant on staff. Fifth, the majority of work-related or performance issues were unknown to Meyer (e.g. OVI arrest, sexually explicit photos, sex toy deliveries, 12/2017 trespass warning, etc.). Sixth, the committee makes it clear both Urban and Shelley, who were present during these tumultuous times in Zach/Courtney's relationship, did not feel the claims of abuse were true. Seventh, Urban Meyer has a track record of being a consistent supporter of respect for women (does Storm Klein being kicked off the team ring a bell?). Of course he gets no credit for that, but don't you think the charges getting dropped in that case and the charges being dropped in the 2009 Zach Smith case might shape how he might have approached these situations going forward after 2012?
In the end, those who want to interpret Urban's behavior(s) will ill-motives, will do so regardless of evidence to the contrary. It's not that hard to imagine a scenario where Urban genuinely feels he did nothing wrong and was suspended for it and is getting raked over the coals. His reputation has been tarnished, and I'd argue inappropriately so, and I think it fairly obvious at this point his career at OSU just got a lot shorter.
WTF? This is the first I have heard of this-the Title IX coordinator being involved in the 15' mess-which was a good thing-her involvement. tOSU actually handled this matter from the top down-which was smart. No wonder Urban was justifiably confident/outraged. Also, if the Title IX coordinator was in fact involved in 15', I can understand why Gene and Urban weren't worried about contacting compliance.
The title IX coordinator isn't sufficient for "compliance"? Given her involvement form the beginning, I can understand why "compliance' wasn't exactly in the loop.
I believe Meyer said this in the presser last night but he could have treated them the same way he does with players. Correct me if I'm wrong but when the Storm Klein incident happened, he was booted from the team before any significant investigation was done. When more came to light and the charges were dropped, that was reduced to a short suspension. With everything that happened with Zach Smith (some Meyer knew about and others he didn't), when was the first time Zach was punished? Shouldn't coaches (the leaders of young men) be held to higher standards?
This Is a good point and perhaps how these issues will be dealt with going forward. But it’s not policy and while Urban would do things differently in hindsight, His not firing ZS earlier and not formally reporting 2015 incident are not worthy of a suspension. When compliance people already know of the situation it’s not obvious that Urban had a duty to report, regardless of the language in his contract. Compliance people were the first to know.
That is what I was kind of stuck on. As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong), there is not a set guideline as far as suspension like there is for termination for cause. So to me, that is the grey area, where there is no defined right or wrong answer. I'm sure this sounds dumb, but when I was thinking about this last night, I thought about the verdict from A Few Good Men. Perhaps being the head coach of such a premier school requires more then just the black and white in his contract. Every possible scenario cannot be laid out so there are times where he is expected to make the right choice in a bad situation and he clearly did not do that.
It’s clear Meyer thinks Courtney Smith is a liar and didn’t want to give her the satisfaction of a direct apology. He should have just sucked it up and offered the apology. He didn’t mean hardly anything else he said up there. Why not one more thing?
When your own mother thinks you are a liar you probably are.
It's funny how not one single blowhard this morning (at least that I've seen) has mentioned that Courtney's mom thinks she's a liar regarding the allegations
Doug Gotlieb did filling in for Dan Patrick. Made comment that it appears that no one , committee included believes Courtney Smith story
Credit to Doug Gottlieb for going out that far.
Not always true, sir. My mother tells everyone that I am a liar because I have been estranged from her and my father for 3+ years now. Best decision I have ever made for my daughter and myself.
In the courtney smith case, its probably true, but not ALWAYS.
"At critical moments throughout the season, we learned about the character of this football team. This was a team of true character, of true resilience." -- President Barack Obama
That's why I put the "probably" in there. Sorry for your situation. Couldn't imagine not talking to my parents anymore.
Musta missed the "probably" there...My bad.
And don't be sorry, I'm not. You don't get to chose who your parents are.
I’m sure there are legal reasons for that response. Perhaps an apology of any kind can be framed as admitting guilt in a sense, and implicate others in guilt. He was undoubtedly “coached” to give that answer.
He didn't even need to apologize ( probably should have on some level) but strictly from an optics standpoint he could have said something about not wishing what she was going through on anyone and that he felt for her and Zach's kids as they worked through this rocky time.. that the coaches and their families are extension of his family and he should have done better... literally dozens of thing he could have said..
OSU botched the report. They purposely left out Courtney's lack of credibility because it would look bad (I don't disagree with leaving it out, it's just poor form). But then they dragged personal info into the report that left both Zach (who is still a scumbag) and Urban looking bad. Zach sought counseling as required by Urban should not have been in the report...that is personal. Urban on medication is a personal issue...that is personal. I have a big problem with the report because it lacks full transparency, which OSU did intentionally as a PR move. Remember, Courtney was the one who made this public, so the gloves are off at that point. Her credibility is fair game. OSU took the high road there, but then let personal matters of Zach and Urban become public.
I think the reason Urban acted the way he did at the presser is because he thinks (knows) Courtney has big time issues and it wasn't brought out in the report, yet his flaws were paraded in front of the media.
They didn't leave it out... several instances where they say something like "we couldn't confirm what Courtney said"//
I thought it was ridiculous that the question was even asked. "What message do you have for Courtney Smith?" Why on Earth would Meyer have a message he wished to deliver to her from this press conference? It seemed to me that the question had more of a connotation of asking a man just convicted of a crime if he wished to apologize to the victim.
I would have answered, "I don't have any message at this time."
“I’ll be texting her my private message to her, so you can look for the cropped screenshot in an upcoming smear piece on Stadium.com. Next question.”
He probably can't directly apologize. Opens up OSU to lawsuits. I guarantee everyone had to be very careful with what they said. I have a lawyer friend who pointed this out to me and he was FOR Urban being fired, yet he conceded Meyer couldn't really say much to or about Courtney.
And what he be apologizing for exactly.? She covered it up to where there was nothing to investigate. I guess you want to hear "I'm sorry Courtney that you an idiot who is more concerned with getting me than your abuser". The lesson here is that no good deed goes unpunished.
I'm amazed at the number of pundits who claim to possess so much better character than Meyer.
"A lot of dead people wish they were out here right now."
Yeah. Never knew there were so many pure and perfect individuals in the media and on social media.
Paul Finebaum's comments have been particularly ironic. He worships Nick Saban, who oozes with warm and fuzzy feelings at every moment in life, yet criticizes Urban's every move and gesture. No double standard here, not one bit.
"Your focus determines your reality."
PF is a Dick.
that is all...
15-1 is SWEET!
How did Gene Smith keep his job
Apparently he can survive any scandal. I have no idea why, though.
What!? The national media doesn’t like us? An sec homer is critical of a team above the mason dixon line, while a conference coach was using an issued phone to call hookers in Detroit?? Don’t tell me Mark May is disappointed in us as well because I don’t think I could handle that disappointment... lol
War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.
Haters gonna hate no matter what.
It's pretty clear: Meyer thinks Courtney Smith is completely full of shit, and I can't say that's a hard position to defend.
Which leads to the question here...why didn't Courtney go to Urban "directly" and bring this to his immediate attention? After all, she was basing her story that "Shelley knew therefore Urban knew."
Well watch that first interview from Watch Stadium, and Courtney did not want Zack to be fired.
"Just remember one thing. I can do your job, but you can't do mine." - Woody Hayes to an OSU professor
no. taking her abuse to her husband's boss is not in the acceptiable set of responsibilities for an accuser to be taken seriously. we've spent three weeks decrying unreasonable expectations. we absolutely should not flip this.
if courtney were a believable person, his inaction would be difficult to defend. she's not.
upon rereading, this is a poor way to put this. I should have said:
"If courtney were telling a believable story...". Even accusers without credibility deserve to have their accusations judged on the merits of the accusation.
This. Urban was between a rock and a hard place with that question-fake apologize to a misguided psycho he knew personally-and knew was full of shit-or not appear "woke', sensitive, remorseful to the national media. His response was appropriate given what he knew about the Smith family over the years and what the national media obviously did not.
No matter how Urban Meyer phrased his response to that question these pundits would have flayed him and the university in the same degree. I can think of many reasons that Meyer responded in the way he did, but I don't think listing those here would be helpful. The bottom line is it's fashionable to hate on Meyer, and each of these pundits is in the business of selling headlines.
Agree with you 110%. No matter what he said, how he said it, he was going to and will continue to get hammered. Even if he would have been fired, they would have piled on, maybe even more.
I heard two different TSUN deejays this morning saying "Urban acted like he didn't even want to be there!" like that was a bad attitude on Urban's part.
First of all, I hope all the bashers have to go through something like this at some time.
Secondly, of course, you ass-hat, he didn't wanna be there!
The BEST part of my drive to work this morning was listening to the Ann Arbor/scUM radio quoting all the tweets from the OSU commits, and also the commits' parents. they ALL 100% loved Urban and were ALL 100% OVERJOYED that he would still be the coach. It was priceless. The local guy (Sam Webb) was like, "we can't beat Ohio State no matter what..."
I'm telling you, schools like TTUN are afraid of Regular Strength Ohio State, but they will crap their pants when they have to face Angry Ohio State. It'll be like, "call me that one more time...."
Dang, what movie am I thinking of???????? Gettin' old's a bitch.
“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt
really wierd today...sam didn’t stutter...btw need a couple commits asap
Ohio Vs the world, man.. LET'S GET THIS SEASON STARTED.
Realistically, I wish Urban was fired.
I personally don’t want him gone, but last night was probably the absolute WORST possible way to go about this. You suspended him for 3 games, which acknowledges that something he did was wrong, but apparently it wasn’t enough to warrant a year suspension or termination? Honestly it would have been better to just not suspended him at all. Either fire him or give him nothing. Splitting down the middle angers both sides. To make matters worse, he didn’t apologize to Courtney directly, which would have been huge. Instead he most likely followed a statement and now he’s public enemy no. 1
The bigger problem at hand now is the obvious character assassination that will come from this (it’s already happening). For at least this season we will have to be reminded of how we kept a coach who covered up and enabled an abuser (I don’t agree with this but this is what the bottom line will be). It’s a black mark. Imagine winning the National Championship and this situation gets brought up in the presser? It’s not a good look, at all.
"Go out there, make plays, they'll remember your name forever. FOREVER!" - J.T. Barrett
BULLSHIT. Just b/c the media states it over and over doesn't make it true. Read the report for yourself.
I agree with you. None of it may be true.
The PERCEPTION is what’s the problem here. No matter what, the media will drag this out.
The PERCEPTION is what’s the problem here. No matter what, the media will drag this out.
Who gives a rats ass what they think? *ichigan Sucks!
This is fun for fans to yell about online, but its simply not realistic for the university as a whole. They care a TON about their reputation and what the general perception is.
I'm sure you have more important things to worry about than the media's perception. There was no winning here regardless of what they did, aside from firing Meyer. Which would not have been justice.
The media is one of the most hated institutions in America. I think the only institutions that have lower approval ratings is the IRS and Congress.
The report was troubling. When you consider it's just the report. That's it. The evidence they seem to have from the 2009 incident was very troubling to me, and likely to the BOT as well. Reading between the lines of the report, there's some nasty stuff out there: 1. She made claims of abuse. 2. People met with her. 3. She didn't pursue charges. Pay attention to the names and they way they were placed in the findings. Do the math.
But you can't really fire him for what happened in 2009.
What's more troubling is the committee interviewed all these people and then didn't say anything about CS's credibility. Instead airing out ZS and Urban. If they thought Urban was covering something up then he should be fired, but it's clear through their inaction and the report that they do not believe CS was abused. But instead of saying that (sorry have a backbone, you were paid a ton of money), they just hang Urban out to dry...really really piss poor job on what was supposed to be a high-powered committee.
But the committee wasn't hired to determine if Zach abused Courtney, so her credibility really isn't a central issue. It was about Urban's decisions and what he was required to do.
Then why interview the moms? They have no impact on if Urban reported to the proper people or not. And sounds like there were more people interviewed that had nothing to do with Urban following protocol.
My opinion from reading between the lines is that they found the 2009 incident to be credible. I think they found it quite troubling and that's why they worded it the way they did. Again, my opinion- the 2009 incident backed her into a corner down the road and she felt like she had nowhere to go. She had a crap husband and didn't feel like anyone was going to support to her and she cracked.
I understand what you're saying. It probably should've been all or none, but let's remember one thing, he wins football games, generates money, and brings a spotlight the likes of which we haven't seen in quite some time onto the Ohio State Football brand.
Now some would make the argument that the spotlight is there anyway, but Urban Meyer is a golden goose in the business of college football.
I'm not saying any of that is right, but at the end of the day the BOT and Drake knew they had to do SOMETHING, but knew they also wanted the golden goose to keep laying those eggs. They tried to come up with a happy medium, and the saying goes, you can't make everyone happy all the time, you won't make some people happy any time at all, and in this case they chose to basically make no one happy whatsoever.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
so.... are you saying winning is more important? that the university should have fired him but they wanted the "golden eggs" to continue instead? just wanted to clarify.
I'm saying it was a fight fought on many fronts. 1. They know they have to take some kind of stand if for no other reason public outcry. 2. They know they want to retain Meyer because of the success of the football program, the dollars generated, success of sending guys to the next level, expansion of the brand and so on. 3. They know that no matter what decision they make they won't satisfy everyone.
They fire him and the vast majority of the Buckeye faithful are going to be pissed, he resigns, same scenario.
They reinstate him with no penalty and every media outlet, women's rights group, activist, motivational speaker, this that, and every other thing you can think of absolutely tear apart the Ohio State brand and the school looks like they value winning/money over anything else.
I think Drake's hang up on the suspension deal was that he knew the school had to make an effort to show they took it seriously.
Not saying the BOT didn't agree, but if we're lead to believe that they wanted an immediate reinstatement, that doesn't exactly show that they felt there was a need to show that the school didn't value winning above all.
Will not even one of them ever question the abuse that has yet to be proven?
I have yet to see direct proof that she was the "victim" that they all keep declaring and pounding the table.
I wish I could upvote this more. It's one woman's word (I'm not counting her parrot, Mcmurphy here) vs the police, her mom etc. Yet no one wants to collaborate her story. They just run with it
Their only defense is the images that Courtney shared with McMurphy, which do not prove anything at all.
I wish someone would directly ask Christine Brennan what Urban Meyer should/could have done personally to "stop" Zach Smith's alleged abuse. Because firing Smith years ago wouldn't have done it.
In the Internet era of #metoo and the Internet, the accused has to PROVE he is not guilty in the arena of public opinion. There must be a video of ZS NOT beating his wife. Obviously an impossibility. ZS is a poor husband. I have been a poor husband at times. There are poor wives. Humans do STUPID things.
Meyer is an arrogant a-hole. I know, not exactly breaking news. To get to where he is in life, you pretty much have to be. There are many fans who hate him. I hated him at Florida, But, now he is our a-hole. You want "aw shucks," hire John Cooper. Nice guy, crappy coach.
Urban is paid A LOT of money. That makes some people jealous. We live in an era of class warfare by politicians. "Rich people are evil", etc. It used to be that we admired successful, well-paid people. The attitude of many is that if that guy is rich, he stole it from someone. The media loves to knock a successful person off their pedestal. A pedestal the media creates and reinforces. Many articles about prominent people talk about their income. As if the size of their paycheck decides how good of a job they MUST do and how perfect they MUST be.
All of this and a desperate media in need of clicks and eyes, you get a feeding frenzy, Which really is what is happening. During a feeding frenzy, everything is destroyed. Hopefully, a new meal drops in the water and the animals are distracted prior to you getting eaten. I just feel sorry for the next one caught in the storm. I know from now on, I will be more open to finding out the full details of a *hit-storm from the media before condemning anyone.
No, I don't think Meyer is innocent. He made a number of mistakes. I believe the punishment fits the crime. (I am getting in the habit of writing that with anything I post on the Internet regarding this)
Didn't Christine Brennan write an apologist piece years ago on Frank Clark after he got booted from the scUM football team for attacking his gf by saying he's just a "kid from a rough upbringing who loves his mother." While going under a different journalist's name that happened to still have the last name "Brennan." Yeah, I really care so much about what she thinks.
She is an unapologetic fan of TSUN. She gleefully recounts how she was taught to hate Ohio State as a child.
That lady for ESPN that says she is done with football altogether and is awaiting the NBA needs to find another job and wash her face and hair
In Antoine Winfield I trust
The willful ignorance of media in the name of fake outrage is the most frustrating to me. Anybody who’s ever walked past a law class know you to do NOT address anything to Courtney in that situation, through the media or otherwise
This. I posted above about the same thing. It would be absolutely foolish for Urban or anyone from OSU to apologize to Courtney or really say anything to her or about her. Doing so could have slander, employment, or criminal/lawsuit implications.
Is it at all possible that Urban or the panel themselves were told not to mention anything specific about Courtney Smith? This investigation was about Urban's handling of Zach Smith but really should not be considered an investigation into whether or not she was actually abused.
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I am. What's the phrase, take the devil you know......
I miss the days when our biggest troll was Mark May.
So glad that the liberal media doesn't run our country or isnt trying to ruin our sports. Sarcasm. Im ready for the season to start. I want another big ten championship for our team. Stay humble my friends. This too shall pass. Go Bucks!!
Principles before personalities.
Online media is spuriously validated through likes and retweets; you can chat absolute nonsense with a following and erroneously influence thousands. That is dangerous. Urban deserved the suspension, and there are still a lot of questions that remain, but I am tired of the sanctimonious takes that some are using to attribute to Urban's situation. No one has mentioned six years of a clean program with its players, the graduation rates, the character of the men that Urban has coached. Painting Urban as someone who is apathetic to domestic violence is an absolute garbage take.
What Urban, Gene, and other employees are guilty of in regards to domestic violence is that they thought the buck stopped with law enforcement; whereas, they should have done more and wrote a report to compliance. However, this is a new issue to a lot of this country and there has to be an adjustment period. The way domestic violence is handled is vastly different than nine years ago, heck it is different than it was in 2015. Gene and Urban were punished accordingly, and my bet is they will legitimately learn valuable lessons they can apply in the future.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Was the media as angry toward the University of Colorado when Mike MacIntyre kept his job?
That's a good question.
Exactly..and in that case the woman who claimed abuse by one of the DB coaches approached McIntyre directly..who in turn reported it to the AD.
So why didn't Courtney do the same thing? Go to Urban directly? In that interview with Watch Stadium, she did not want Zach to be fired.
The media...so noble.
During a question and answer session after Meyer made his first statement to media since Aug. 3, Meyer was asked what his message was to Zach Smith's wife, Courtney.
Meyer replied, "Well, I have a message for everyone involved in this. I'm sorry that we are in this situation. And I'm just sorry we are in this situation."
During a question and answer session after Meyer made his first statement to media since Aug. 3, Meyer was asked what his message was to Zach Smith's wife, Courtney.
Meyer replied, "Well, I have a message for everyone involved in this. I'm sorry that we are in this situation. And I'm just sorry we are in this situation."
This was an absolute softball question and Urban just let it hit him right in the face instead. Everyone knew some version of that question was coming and I don't know why he didn't have a canned "all domestic violence is horrible and we take any allegations incredibly seriously" answer, mention some core value stuff, etc etc. The man should just stop going to press conferences.
His pride struck him again. Even if it is true that Courtney Smith is a liar and Urban believes her as such, how hard is it to frame an answer in the terms of the core values that he has propagated on to his team?
"My heart goes out not just for Courtney, but for everyone involved in abusive relationships or alleged domestic violence. I should have done better and will use this experience as a lesson going forward." etc etc
Exactly. But he fumbled again.
"I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes
He should have called a time out.........
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
His pride struck him again. Even if it is true that Courtney Smith is a liar and Urban believes her as such, how hard is it to frame an answer in the terms of the core values that he has propagated on to his team?
Let's see if I get what you are saying? You want him to lie? Oh wait that's how we got here in the first place. When was the last time you saw a hypocrite?
"I have taught my players to respect women, and as an administrator I take that very seriously. I am sorry that I did not do enough to assuage the situation."
Where in that hypothetical statement do you spot a lie?
"I have taught my players to respect women, and as an administrator I take that very seriously. I am sorry that I did not do enough to assuage the situation."
Where in there does it say "I am sorry Courtny Smith"? Because it appears that's what you & the media are looking for.
Don’t waste your time with these white knights.
Cool buzzword, it somehow does not change my opinion.
While I agree with the sanctions handed down to Urban, there was absolutely nothing Urban or the university could have done to "assuage the situation". As she is not a member of the university student body, faculty or staff, Title IX does not apply to her. NCAA rules and regulation do not apply to her. OSU policy does not apply to her. Nothing Meyer/Ohio State did or didn't do enabled Zach Smith's behavior towards Courtney. They provided neither access or venue (See Pamela Fine vs Joseph Tumpkin). That was in the hands of the Delaware County law enforcement and judicial system.
Whatever happened to the Brown University womens BB coach who was arrested for assaulting her husband and charged with DV or the wife of a PGA golfer who was charged with DV? Oh, I forgot, only men are capable of DV
Anyone who works for The Athletic has zero room to talk shit. If I recall, and not trying to crucify Birm, but didn’t they hire him after there were allegations of sexual harassment? People in glass houses...
Bring it on. My biggest problem with all this is that after 2 weeks where a monster committee (led by a vindictive woman) interviewed 40 people--including all the "victims"--looked at 1000,000 texts and emails, spoke with police and district attorneys, the only people other than CS and her lawyer that are claiming ZS committed DV are the all-knowing media from 1,000 miles away.
Reporter: "Urban, do you have anything to say to CS?"
UFM: "Yeah. Courtney, I'm sorry you're a raging alcoholic, vindictive dirtbag who calls 911 for fun."
I keep hearing Courtney being referred to as a victim of DV...is this true? I actually am not sure but the way the national media speaks about it, she is. Can someone shed some light on this for me?
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
This is the same issue that I have with basically every comment on all of these posts. Are we just going to accept now that the accusations are true? Because from everything I have read it seems like maybe something happened, but it sure doesn't seem like it was a one-way street here.
"It all goes so fast, and character makes the difference when it's close."
How many of those "pundits" read the report? I do agree the press conference was lame. Meyer should have said something related to DV (i.e. it is not acceptable, i have 2 daughters , etc.) and empathized with Courtney ... if not for the DV then for putting up with Zach.
Not enough hang-dog look to please the pundits?
I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes
The media had painted a particular narrative and they are going to stick with it to the bitter end, no matter what. They don't have the balls to admit they were wrong or mistaken, at least on certain aspects of this situation. They're not accountable at all and we just have to live with it for now.
Meyer believes that Courtney Smith is the vindictive nutcase that her own mother says she is because he has now lived it. A typical person can see that there is no way that Urban Meyer would look into the camera last night right after fighting for his job all day long and offer some heart felt apology to her. The national media is about eyes, ears, and clicks. They aren't typical people. They're generating revenue for their employers. Nothing the national media says means a thing to me anymore. Not because of this fiasco, but just in general.
The only thing I'm happy about is that the suspense is over and a decision has been made. A lot of things bother me about this, including the national narrative, the handling of this by the University, the handling of Zach Smith by Meyer, and how he looked at the press conference last night. I will be surprised if this whole episode is really, truly over.
it is not over till the NCAA decides not to look at the 600 strip club bill on a recruiting trip... that is the one of the things that would worry me going forward...
The document that was produced is now being analyzed by lots of different people who may or may not choose to pursue stories and dive deeper into areas none of us were even aware of before last night... That is the landmine that worries me...
The whole program has the sword of Damocles over its head going forward this season until we can safely put enough time between this report and the season.
$600 strip club bill? Did I miss something?
The juice is worth the squeeze
Didn't the report say it was paid for by the coaches in question not the university?
it is not who paid.. it was that it was with high school coaches on a recruiting trip...
Yeah, it was paid by Zach personally.
Let's be honest with ourselves, the press conference last night was largely a shitshow. How do you have 11 hours of deliberations and allow another terrible press conference. How did they not fire Gene? Urb didn't do a great job at this presser and I blame all of them. They should have punted to today if everyone wasn't ready.
National media have already decided that Courtney Smith was abused. No one will come out and ask if Tosu never hired ZS or if they fired him in 2015 for the investigation does that change if she was abused or Not? They say well there are pictures, Bruce talked to her (2009), shelleys phone texts. They don't care if the police and or cs has any responsibility or if zs does either.
The investigation was to see if there was a cover up and did Tosu follow the process? They didn't outline that enough. Who is in charge? Gene is the AD and he asked Urb should he fire him. Gene should kno Urb to close with Bruce and said he gone.
DV is serious but the National media wants blood especially with all the National cover ups. I can't believe the university f'd this up (presser) when they have such resources.
"Let's Roll", Todd Beamer, Flight 93, 9/11
To all the members of the media that have never made a mistake in their life and are now passing moral judgement..... FUCK YOU!
OHIO against the world! Can’t wait to see these self righteous blowhards have a meltdown when we win the natty and rub it in their face.
Vires Et Honestas
here's an article on ESPN reporters/anchors who have been accused of sexual assault and harassment:
I hope you can open it. I googled "sports casters accused of sexual assault"
and by the way, one of the sportscasters, ESPN's star guy, Mike Tirico, lives in Ann Arbor.
The fact everyone in the national media still assumes coutney smith is 100% truthful and the only victim in this just tells you everything you need to know. Not saying she isn't, just to blanketly assume that without due process for Zach (as much of a POS as he is) is just BS. Just continued displays of virtue signaling from uninformed dummies. not surprising
Would give you a thousand upvotes if I could... 100% spot on.
Agreed! I feel like we need a rational Ramzy article. I have no idea how the national media can paint this as urban miss handling domestic abuse when Mary Jo White, an attorney who has served on committees dealing with domestic abuse in the past, comes on the television and states that they found NO EVIDENCE of domestic abuse. The whole thing is insane and IMO does a disservice to the women who deal with domestic violence on a day-to-day basis.
I think the Asia Argento saga has really let it be known that the media in general does not know how to frame and report domestic violence in this country, no matter who they are. There are some good reporters out there who have done amazing work on these issues; I just haven’t seen any that cover this story.
Only thing she's a victim of, as far as I can see right now, is having a shitty husband. But as I was telling someone earlier... shes guilty of being a shitty wife.
It's sad that Meyers reputation and Ohio State got dragged into this shit storm of lies.
Regardless of his actions or inactions, it seems he’s taking most heat for what he’s saying or not saying publicly. Why doesn’t he have a PR person helping him? Even long before this situation?
Class of 2001 - classless since then.
Mabe 11w should also report how people on twitter are reacting to Urbans suspension
Damn it feels good to be a Buckeye
All of these people have made my Arya Stark list. The north remembers.
Lol winter is coming Finebaum
I have not read the national pundits from the beginning and I do not plan on starting now.
This is why we need to win the whole thing. To shove it in their faces.
Someone brought up the idea if we are a 1-loss team in the hunt for a playoff berth would the CFP committee keep us out to punish Urban? If the CFP believes the narrative ESPN sets (like last year) whats to keep them?
"I find your lack of kalua disturbing" - Darth Lebowski
The talent is there, the motivation is there, lets just hope that things fall in to place. Lots of tough road games.
The lord of brevity.
Ok - first things first - Urban and Gene were not "enabling an abuser" - they should have involved compliance after they heard about the incident though. There is a new expectation that employers are now required to go beyond law enforcement, which is apparently incapable of prosecuting DV, and investigate these issues themselves. This is a dangerous precedent that these talking heads are taking here. It's saying, "screw due process, even the rumor of domestic violence means you should be fired, because Law Enforcement can't be trusted". Fix law enforcement if that's truly the issue...don't put more burdens on employers and impact due process for what amounts to an imperfect "fix".
One of the more intelligent takes I have seen. The real Issue is weather Academic institutions should be allowed to usurp due process and our legal system. They most certainly should not be given that power.
It just amazes me that of ALL the notable headlines sports has offered up recently - Jimbo Fisher, Maryland, Sparty actually accused of covering up years of sexual assault, etc. - the media has chosen to focus on Meyer and his handling of a grown man's personal life.
I'd love to see a graphic, similar to the suspension one above, detailing how much coverage each major story line has received vs Meyer in 2018. Ya know, Maryland had a player die because of "culture", but got about a week worth of coverage. Dantonio, Izzo and Michigan State allegedly went to extreme measures to cover up all kinds of violence against women, from eradicating police documents to the Nassar fiasco,and provided the media with an endless narrative to go wild on but... they didn't.
When the courtney smith question was I asked I was hoping he wouldn't directly answer it. It's not the time or the place. Not to mention there is still a court date set to decide if zach is guilty of DV. the reporter that asked that question should be ashamed...but we all know journalists dont feel shame or remorse.
The court case I believe is for criminal trespassing, if I’m not mistaken.
There's also a court case for her request for a protection order against Zach.
that won't determine his guilt, either.
Correct - I presume just to determine whether the judge deems her and the kids to be unsafe and grant the protection order or not.
OSU should have made it crystal clear the suspension was for keeping Zach Smith employed for all the other shit he did that has been confirmed, and not for this “mishandling DV allegations” narrative that they allowed to media to run with.
This one is tough for me... I took classes on PR, don't pretend to be an expert in any case, but looking at Meyer on the podium last night I could tell he didn't want to be there, he didn't think he did anything wrong and he wanted to flip the bird to the entire dais.
On one hand, I'm like, "fuck it, it works for Belichick, if he doesn't give a shit about being at a press conference and doesn't want to answer questions, you can tell by the look on his face, and no one cares."
This situation, however, probably did warrant Urban coming at it with a little more humility, and it's not that I agree, but perception is going to matter at some point.
The Courtney Smith question, I mean the only thing we know about Courtney Smith is that we really don't know anything that revolves around proven stories of what she has or has not gone through. The media painting her like some heroic figure who stood up against the big bad football coach because her husband was protected by him and able to beat her up, that whole narrative, it has had holes poked in it from day 1.
I just want all this bullshit to end.
I don't know what kind of facial expression everyone wanted to see! I thought that was about as humble and as penitent as you will ever see Urban Meyer, and I guarantee part of the thoughts running through his head were, "I screwed up and I ain't every gonna let this happen again."
This should just be the standard answer to everything now. Let the media print this millions of times a day and see who still reads their articles.
Let the hate flow!!!
You can feed a bobcat all the chili it wants. That don't mean it's going to crap out diamonds.
Yet nobody gives Harbaugh grief...you know the coach that actually HAS a criminal record.
I admit that there are things that he could have done to make this easier. But anything short of termination was going to cause an up-roar.
"¯\_(ツ)_/¯" - Joey Bosa
It would’ve been better had we moved on from Urban. I don’t support liars. Day’s our future, not Meyer. If we lose Day after his new contract expires, we’re gonna be fucked. I love Day and Grinch. #thefuture
" It's real good whatcha done Anthony, real good ! "
Our future is one guy who's never been a HC before and a second guy who's never even coached a game here. Bold.
Also, while none will come from me, you're going to get DVed into the abyss for that opinion.
How many of the incoming recruits have tweeted their opinion about Ryan Day being interim coach? How many of the incoming recruits tweeted their opinion of Urban being suspended? Say what you want about Urban being too loyal to seniors or his game management. But tOSU is the program it is today because the dude (UFM) can flat out recruit! Most 5 star athletes playing for tOSU now than at any time in the history of the program.
Most of his success in recruiting came from being an elite coach and his reputation of developing good men on and off the field which is now tarnished. Loyalty over domestic violence rubs me the wrong way. It would have been the perfect time for the transition to build this program with younger coaches. Feels right.
Regardless of what he said / didn't say, they would've found something to criticize about it.
Big Ten Man, stuck in Pac-12 Land
they do not seem to realize how close they all are to being hung out to dry in a similar fashion. Hell if we were all suspended for our worst transgressions this economy would come to a screetching halt and i promise you most of ours would be far greater than Urbans.
Reminds me of a ted nugent song
KISS MY ASS
The national media can suck a fat one today
Anyone that is reporting that OSU and/or Meyer don't care about DV is just plain stupid or hasn't followed everything very closely. To this point, it's 50/50 on whether it actually occurred, and in that 50% chance that it did, it may have been both parties being the victim. Somehow, someone needs to stand up and say, until actual DV has been confirmed, can we stop throwing that phrase around?
Also, Mary Jo's comments about how they don't believe that the police handling the situation is enough, and Meyer and Smith should have pressed to get the university involved is pure political correctness bullshit. As far as the country we live in, the government and police hold the highest power, and the OSU compliance office has no business interfering with what they are doing.
If these pundits actually cared about the main issue at hand, Domestic Violence, they would take a step back and say ok let's wait for something within the legal process to determine the truth here, but that doesn't make headlines. In my opinion, it's the MEDIA that has made a sham of this, they would rather get a football coach fired...they don't give a shit about the actual outcome of the alleged Domestic Violence that happened. In fact, had Meyer been fired, they would have never checked back into the progress of the Zach/Courtney case. That disgusts me. They preach that everyone should stand up for DV, but all they are worried about is a football coach....but here we are as Buckeye fans being chastised for only being worried about a football coach.
Bingo. And what's more, they are saying the suspension isn't enough, but only from the perspective of they know it won't really affect OSU's football performance. They likely will win their games without Urban on the sidelines. So that's why the suspension doesn't do much for them. They are only thinking about it in football terms, and not life in general. Quite hypocritical of the very people who say Urban is a hypocrite.
In reality the suspension is pretty significant to Urban, it really hurts him personally and tarnishes his legacy. But when the main motivation of the critics is to see a storied coach and program fail/suffer versus justice for a DV "victim", this is what you get.
This is the crazy part...there very well may never be justice for a DV victim in this circumstance. #1 it may have never even happened judging by the lack of action by law enforcement. #2 as of right now there is not even a pending court case having anything to do with DV, only a trespassing situation that very well may be thrown out of court if the setup by Courtney is true. But here we are, DV will forever be attached to Urban when in fact, DV may not even be in play here.
Except that we play TCU (preseason ranked # 16) in essentially a road game. This argument would have had merit with a 1 or 2 game suspension.
I agree with you though, many people just want Ohio State to be worse at football and so, they wanted him fired or to miss as many games as possible.
Why don't we hear more outrage over the Maryland situation where a kid died? Because no one cares about Maryland football, that's why. Sad state of affairs that we live in a society where unproven allegations of abuse deserves all kinds of attention but a dead teenager does not.
What I find most troubling about all of these pundits statements is that none of them seem to acknowledge that the so-called victim Courtney Smith is a lying, sceeming piece of shit that the statements by her own mother, the police reprts, and the facts of the police investigations validate. Yet these pundits want to pretend as if she is something entirely different. This is a gross disservice to the women who are actually faced with real abuse.
Yet nobody seems to be talking about what a liar Courtney Smith is, nor the fact that there isn't a single pieceof evidence to support that Zach has ever abused her.
Lets talk about that, lets talk about how their is no evidence to validate a damn thing she has claimed.
She seems to think she is justified in making up stories of abuse because Zach decided to tap some ass. This is the real crime,.
Theire is only one truth...
Agreed, but you have to admit, questioning CSmith's credibility would have dug the hole even deeper for OSU/Urban. Better to just let it go and move on. If you attack her credibility, that is another shit storm. It's better to just walk away and leave it be. I actually think that Meyer's answer to the question about CSmith was a product of his knowledge that she has zero credibility, so he wasn't about to apologize to someone who made up DV claims.
Urban used poor judgement in keeping a scumbag on staff. If the pundits want to beat that drum, I'm sure many of us would not disagree. But saying he harbored/condoned DV is character assassination. That is out of bounds yet they don't have to be held accountable so they will say what they will.
Logged in just to comment.
No offense to anyone, but the virtue-signaling mea culpa from the collective media is proof positive why I will not watch ESPN/Fox Sports/B1G Net/ outside of the actual Buckeyes games.
Nothing more pathetic than a bunch of people who have LITERALLY no information that the general public doesn't have, making their grandstand about an issue they have no control over. It's really quite sad.
vicariously living through tOSU since 1987...
Ugh, not unexpected, but it's been frustrating seeing all these yahoo's sensationalizing everything to get views/clicks/attention (especially USA Today and PF). Plus, what Urban is clearly guilty of is lying to the media, so they're all pissed off at him to begin with.
I thought DiNardo's take was insightful.
Who Cares. Lets just go win it all.
Haters gonna hate. Short of being fired, the critics wouldn't be happy - if even then. Urban will be even more committed to winning each and every game to shove it in their faces. Time to get on with the season.
Why would Urban apologize for something that may or may not have happened
The narrative that she is a domestic violence victim is unsubstantiated at this time
I agree with the general consensus of the national media. This toothless punishment makes our beloved alma mater look very bad, and very indifferent towards the issue of domestic violence.
What domestic violence?
It's Buckeyes against the world. Talk about a chip.
OH-IO living BACK IN COLUMBUS after 32 years in the ATL.
I’ve just taken the stance of not giving a care to their opinions. At this point they only really impact buckeye nation as much as we let them with their words. I don’t like their opinions so I don’t watch their shows. Problem solved.
This will blow over because people have short attention spans, and they will be looking for something else to juice them up to aid them through their relatively boring lives. These attacks will go on throughout the week, but will begin to sputter begin next Monday. We will hear about it again watching the buckeyes first few games, and another surge of outcry when Urban returns. That’s fine.
We can all read the report for ourselves to determine our own conclusions. Urban got punished, and I’m ok with that based on the information. He clearly appears to believe that CS is full of it, and it’s apparent by his reactions at the conference. He is smart enough to know how exactly to placate the situation, but is sticking to his guns. Dangerous, but I can respect that. I hope in the future he finds a canned PR statement to any questions about her directly. No reason to continually poke the bear.
Just be patient and breathe. There is only the feeling of pressure from the outside world if we allow their words to weigh on our shoulders. Just step aside and let it blow by.
I'm concerned that come playoff time this is used to keep Ohio State out.
Onward and upward! Go Buckeyes!
Any time a man is accused of hitting a woman, the American press loses its collective mind and rushes to judge, jury, and convict the guy before any facts come to light. That's the way it works, and people can whine and cry 'victim shaming' all they want... men are presumed guilty until proven innocent. Period. Then, after multiple witnesses reluctantly come forward to tell the world, either directly or tacitly, that the accuser is a liar with sever credibility issues, and someone who openly threatened to 'take down' the man she's accusing and his boss, and after the accuser pilfers private photos and receipts from the alleged abuser's phone and passes them along to her shill of a reporter for the express purpose of embarrassing the accused, and his boss, the press STILL brazenly insists the accuser to be a truthful, dutiful, innocent, weak female who was beaten by her ex-husband, and betrayed by the wealthy and powerful head football coach. Short of Urban Meyer saying, "You're all right... I willingly harbored a known wife beater, I ignored the wife's plea for help, and I told Zach that he could do blow off a hooker's ass in a strip club every weekend and then head home to pop Courtney in the jaw for all I care as long as he kept recruiting his ass off," the press would have destroyed him last night anyway, so if I'm Meyer I don't give one rat fuck about Pat Forde, Paul Finebaum, or all the hypocritical women calling for my head this morning. I'm chomping at the bit to get back to my team and to will them to a national title just for goddamn spite.
When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's
I mentioned this in another forum, but I am surprised by the comment sections on sites like Yahoo. They are pretty supportive of Meyer. These seemingly come from fans from our rivals as well.
I've yet to meet the perfect human being. The University has made its decision and that's that. I could care less about the opinions of others because opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one and most of them stink.
We are a college football bully. Everyone loves the story of the bully getting what is coming to him. No one likes it when the bully gets up off the mat and pummels everyone that came after him. (Let's be clear, I'm not advocating bullying for those among us with thin skin.) But I am advocating OSU pummeling everyone this year!
Pain of Discipline
Pain of Regret
Take Your Pick
Soon we’ll do our talking on the field.
Why exactly should Urban Meyer apologize to Courtney Smith? What about his actions did ANYTHING to impact her situation?
She clearly has issues. Zach Smith clearly has issues. The abuse existing within their relationship has absolutely nothing to do with Coach Meyer. Whatever quibbles people may have with Meyer's personnel handling/process for dealing with Zach Smith, his actions did absolutely nothing to impact Courtney Smith. Zach Smith's pattern of abuse has nothing to do with his status as a WR coach at OSU.
I think the BTN transcription was ridiculous. Why should Ohio State not make their statement about the thing it's about? They were there to express their decision on what decisions had been made about what, if any, punishments they had decided to hand out. It would have been completely inappropriate for the Board or President Drake to only briefly mention the suspensions and then launch into a full nationwide crusade against domestic violence.
Who really cares what the lying media thinks. Fake news everywhere. GO BUCKS!!!!
I don’t understand how no one in the media gives credence to CS’s comments about “taking Meyer down”, which was corroborated by 2 people. No sane person blames their husbands boss for infidelity. This ruins her credibility more than anything, except for the fact that her own mother sides with Zach’s version of events. The pundits simply don’t want to look at the facts, they just want to condemn and pretend to be brave by standing up for something obvious like “I’m against senseless violence” or “DV”, which really isn’t an issue here anymore because it is clear Meyer never condoned, enabled, covered up, nor could of done anything to prevent any alleged domestic violence in this case. So what could he possibly apologize to Courtney for? She actually owes him an aopology for insinuating that he could have done more to prevent her so called abuse.
C.Smith the victim? They chose to crusify a guy because he was loyal to his mentor family member maybe a little more then he should have. Should they talk about his strong family and his daughters? Do they talk about real life Wenesdays and how many young men Urban has help with life. The charities that both his wife our part of. Or the fact instead of writing hot takes Shelly Meyer was out talking trying to make a differnce about DV? These same douche bags our the ones that will be begging for the interview if we one a national championship.
The people on espn are just puppets that get handed a script to follow before the show starts. Can’t anyone offer just a mild counterpoint? It would provide more viewers and internet clicks. Their talk is as cheap as it gets.
Banks of olentangy
So many people lined up to cast the first stone.
The only good thing about The Game is winning it - Urban Meyer
Fields of Dreams
They sure get all the mileage they can out of the words "seemingly" and "domestic violence" when neither has been proved. National media = rabid dogs. I hope UM can hang in there and look to Buckeye Nation for support. We got his back!
The vast majority of people believe what they want to believe regardless of facts.
a hard rock miner from Butte, Montana
Look, I get that DV is a terrible crime, but there's still never been an arrest or evidence it ever happened. Everybody wanting Urban to apologize to this woman is freaking crazy... FIRING ZACH SMITH IN 2015 WOULD ONLY HAVE GAVE MORE MOTIVE AND FREE TIME TO THE ALLEGED ABUSER... This is why Urban is not the one responsible to apologize to her, he didn't enable the abuse just by employing the guy. Also, with the title 9 director and AD already having knowledge of the situation as she informed the AD and he informed Urban and police having already investigated, who the fuck else is Urban supposed to inform? The only reasons to justify his suspension is the ZS clearly pushed the line of behavior often to only slaps on the wrist and Urban mislead the media at media day which reflected poorly on the University, maybe you can say because he didn't give written notification to the people who informed him that this was going on but that's pretty asinine as well as they clearly knew. But to freak out and jump off the ledge still after NOTHING has come back and proved CS was ever abused in 2015 and NOBODY can corroborate anything she's claimed is insane. Reuben Foster had a much worse looking instance happen literally just this offseason where there was much more compelling "Evidence" and it all ended up being fabrication. Hell Gareon Conley just recently lost millions of dollars due to accusations. Accusations don't = guilt of any manner. This whole ordeal has been some backward ass thinking and call for some kind of moral justice that from all indicators isn't even necessary. Last thing I'm posting about this because it's ridiculous. Thank god football starts in less than 2 weeks...
In case anyone’s looking for Cowherd’s tone-deaf take: Urban is now “miles behind Saban” in the college coaching rankings. “In fact, I don’t even have him as number 2.” He ranks Dabo, Chris Petersen and- wait for it- Jim Harbaugh ahead of Urban, who he compares to John Calipari. “Great coach, but way too much baggage.”
Colin Cowherd has a lisp
Talking heads trying to score morality points rather than pay attention to the facts. How shocking.
Where these idiots in the national media fail, is sticking with the assertion that this was domestic violence. After all of the stories and the investigating has been completed, I still have not seen a shred of evidence that CS was the victim and not the aggressor. No one is standing up and correcting them. I believe that if the investigating committee determined that there was no evidence of DV, much like the PD's involved, then they should have made that clear in their report and in their presser. I am sick of all of this PC crap, and the need to hold everyone accountable for the actions of one. There is no doubt in my mind, that if Zach Smith had been arrested for DV in 2015, he would have been fired in 2015.
There can be no mishandling of domestic violence when it is not clear that domestic violence has occurred. That destroys 90% of the national media outrage but they are conveniently ignoring that part
It is obvious that no one directly involved takes anything that Courtney Smith says at face value and there is a good reason for that
Class of 2005
There’s a reason public relations firms make lots of money: they can save your ass when problems arise. The way I see it either our university has a pr firm that was utilized and should now be fired, or, a pr firm was not utilized and someone in the administration should be fired for not employing one.
We can all scream at the media, but they are what they are. Is anyone surprised at the reaction of the media today?
The way it stands now we are not only allowing the media to define the narrative, but we are handing them nuggets that are escalating the initial problem. How can we expect the media to do otherwise when we are feeding them with quotes and press conferences that do everything but diffuse the problem.
A joy which death alone can still.
What a crock of crap. If I got fired over domestic abuse ALLEGATIONS, somebody's getting sued. Finebaum is a scumbag. if he's so worried about courtney, then he should go apologize to her. To me, she's one evil, lying, scheming, bitch, who tried her best to screw over Zach, Urban Meyer, and TOSU. Ask her mother. Smith deserved to get fired, no doubt. Just for his coaching alone. However, the most recent findings concerning his behavior leave no doubt. And Meyer did fire him when he learned he violated a court order to keep a distance from courtney. When Urban's contract is up, I don't think he renews.
Who cares what these tools think. We have our coach back after three games. Ohio Vs the world.
I was surprised to see Joel Klatt was upset with Ohio State. Figured he may have been more level-headed.
Bleed Scarlet & Grey For Life
My money says UFM bows out. Everyone has a BS meter, and his was pegged out on 8/22. Utmost respect for Coach, zero for AD GS, Prez Drake and countless members of the "media".
Thanks for the memories, Coach.
I will pound you and pound you until you quit.
Wednesday night was just a PR debacle, and not sure who was in charge.
1. Could Meyer have handled Wednesday night better? Absolutely. I don't know if litigation kept him from mentioning Courtney Smith by name, but that would have quelled some of those out looking for blood.
2. Since domestic abuse seems to be at heart of this matter, had he / university announced the creation of some type of endowment / research — any type of positive community spin — it would have been hard to argue they didn't care.
3. The report coming out after the fact was wrong. Let those asking questions see it during conference, so they can be better prepared.
4. Did anyone really think all parties would be fresh and all smiles after 12 hours of heated debate. I'm sure Drake, Smith, Meyer were all fried, frustrated, angered, you name it. Then you put them out there and expect them to be forthcoming and remorseful and thought-provoking with their answers. ... Would it have been that bad to have come back this morning, so that everyone involved could have had time to reflect?
I just think the university had an opportunity to minimize the damage, possibly put a positive spin, and what happened was we v. them mentality.
"I will pound you and pound you until you quit." — Woody Hayes
You are right on all points but #4 especially. These are all human beings, as we are all. After a 12 hour day like that I would be a total a-hole to anyone and everything too.
Once that deliberation went past 4-5pm they should have just set a presser for 9AM the next morning, vowing that they would get a decision made prior to that.
"Once that deliberation went past 4-5pm they should have just set a presser for 9AM the next morning, vowing that they would get a decision made prior to that."
EXACTLY. Plus you diffuse the media members who were getting cranky from waiting all day.
My feeling is "positive spin" was not a possible outcome. Whatever was done or said would have gotten crucified.
Today, living in TSUN, I heard such idiocy as
- Urban looked like he didn't even want to be there! He has no shame! ...and
- oh yeah, they deliberated for 12 hours, cause they had to make it look good!
- they didn't even mention Courtney Smith!! uh yeah, they did, actually.
- we would never do this at *ichigan!!! Really? explain Brendan Gibbons, your kicker in 2010-2013...
i'm sorry, it's ridiculous.
So many people making so many assumptions about what Urban knew, what Shelly did, what the rest of the staff knew and did...
The thing this is DV is not black and white, it is only black and white if you have picked sides.
I try to step away from being a fan and look at this without rose colored glasses and the whole issue stinks.
Ive been through divorce and had a wife who would get violent, I simply took it because I could contain my anger and remained calm. She knew how to work the system, Courtney seems very recognizable.
Mothers don't lie, not even to cover for their daughters... that says ALOT to me.. sure Zack was a piece of cr@p but if he was a real DV abuser and Courtney was this angel, then we wouldn't be here. The police tried to do their job. It would seem Urban was running a team, and caught a wif of the stench, knew it was a nasty divorce, and warned Zack and let the police/university do their job. Was it really his responsibility to double checked it was reported to compliance?
And like what was mentioned before, these guys had their "articles" written the day this first came out. ESPN aka SEC Network has their skin in the game... Urban has consistently sided with women on everything... zero credit? he put it in writing... OH that's just a complete joke now? take that cheap shot because its simple to ignore the past as you try to cut off the softest pound of flesh.
These writers all have rose colored glasses on and are reviling in this, yes maybe the press conference was very legal speak and thin… but in this world its better safe than sorry.
The worst part is these people cherry picking phrases to frame the narrative they are trying to create rather than actually telling the whole story. UFM reported it up as he was supposed to do. There are plenty of reasons to suspect that the allegations made by CS aren't 100% accurate, but that isn't even mentioned.. at all.
Ya know what though.. eff em. Eff em all. Ohio against the world.
*Sipping the Buckeye Kool-Aid since 1995
Get your mute buttons ready! I feel every announcer every week will want to prove how great they are by talking down about Urban and tOSU
I stopped caring what others thought of us after the “TCU was snubbed” crap in 2014. Normalcy will return, we just have to wait for it.
I'm glad Urban Meyer is still the football coach at The Ohio State University. And yes, the National Media has it out for UM and for TOSU right now. And really, I'm completely fine with TOSU fans who are of the mind that it is "TOSU vs. the world."
I completely agree with those who have noted that this is a near total PR disaster. From the initial Big10 press conference, to yesterday's presser, it doesn't reflect well. Just doesn't. A lot of self-inflicted pain here. If UM had been more transparent right at the start about 2015, if he was less forgetful, if he had at least said, "I'm sorry for the pain Courtney has gone through," I think it would gone much better.
Like many of you, I really think the erasure of all cell phone texts more than a year old is a bad, bad look. Why would you erase texts unless there was something to hide? The message sent to players and to coaches is not, "do the right thing," the message being sent is, "be sure to cover your tracks and don't get caught. Hide, delete, and get rid of any potentially embarassing or criminal acts."
Where I disagree is with the suggestion that this is now in the "rear view mirror" and that now you can "focus on football" and things can "move forward." I don't think the media or opposing fans or many women are going to quickly forget. The pressure is going to continue to be on UM and on the program. You are going to be mocked endlessly for the words "honesty" and "respect women" painted on the walls.
I can understand the "fire Drake" mentality, but you better hope he is retained. If he is fired, this will set academics back immeasurably at TOSU. The message any decent professors would get is that academics are fine and all, but football is king, and is the paramount value that shapes everything else.
Good post, Blu, but I'll differ on a few of your assertions.
if he had at least said, "I'm sorry for the pain Courtney has gone through," I think it would gone much better.
Totally disagree here. It was a loaded question. If he had in some way personally apologized to Courtney Smith it would be tantamount to admitting she was abused, which is still a matter for the legal system. The best he could have said was something like "best wishes for her family going forward" or something to that extent.
You are going to be mocked endlessly for the words "honesty" and "respect women" painted on the walls.
True, the media tirade will continue for a while, but it will simmer down. Why? Because every other bit of Urban's behavior points to "respect women" being absolutely true. In his time at OSU he has suspended, nearly dismissed and outright dismissed players for any allegation of violence towards women. He is the first OSU coach to hold a women's football clinic every year. He is a loving husband and a loving father of two women. And I'm sure the women in his life will defend him.
As for the email deletions, I don't really see that as being anything. I tried to do that this week with my phone, text messages too. It's simply house-cleaning. Inboxes and data plans can fill up quickly, especially if you're the HC at Ohio State and you're communicating with hundreds, if not thousands, of recruits, families, media representatives, etc. every year.
"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer
I can save everyone the trouble of reading this. Here is the gist:
Everyone who hated Ohio State and Urban Meyer yesterday, still hate them today.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
What a load of crap.
Finebaum: In 2015 Saban and Alabama take on Jonathan Taylor who was kicked out of Georgia for domestic abuse, among others. Taylor promptly abuses his girlfriend. Sabans comments regarding bringing the kid on: "I'm not sorry for giving him the chance. I'm sorry how it turned out". Note the absence of an apology to the abused...Finebaum spared Nick any real heat of course. ESPN and Finebaum are hypocrites of the highest order, although I repeat myself.
Brennan: Urban didn;t do everything in his power to stop the abuse. A) ALLEGED abuse and B) just what exactly was he supposed to do? Fire him? How exactly does that stop the alleged abuse?
Lastly, since when does ESPN get to be the moral arbiter? They got to be their own judge and jury when Buccigross was accused and they cleared themselves after a "thorough investigation". How conveeeeenient....
Urban made some less than stellar choices but none of them are so egregious that we need to endure this load of crap from the "national media"
Fuck them and anyone who agrees with them.
Let's cut the bull, here. I'd love for 11W to take a national stand and call out some of their contemporaries, but we know that isn't going to happen. I appreciate 11W reporting on all of this and over the second half of this saga they've tried to be very unbiased and just report information and opinions of others. The article addressing how complex this situation is and how attacking it from such a black and white manner (accusing Urban of outright lying) was not the best route was a great step that almost no one else in journalism is going to do these days. But 11W has always prided itself on being the source for and voice of the OSU fanbase. It would be great for 11W to call some of these hacks out for using a terrible situation to publicly grandstand and nail a large pelt to the wall without even caring about the entirety of the story or all relevant facts. I'm not saying OSU or Urban are squeaky clean here, but the facts of this situation are as follows:
- Courtney has accused Zach of domestic violence. Police have yet to find enough to charge Zach.
- Urban, Gene, and the Title IX director knew Zach was accused and being investigated. After no charges were filed, they didn't pursue it further.
- Zach is in general a morally bankrupt individual who was also subpar to bad at his job. He does nothing illegal (besides the OVI which he confirmed he covered up) and has not been found to have broken NCAA rules. He isn't fired because he is able to relate to 17 year old males and is in fact an excellent recruiter and because his Grandpa means the world to Urban. None of his douchebaggery is outright made public, because why would it be unless he was fired.
- Courtney and Zach's marriage falls apart, likely due to Zach's countless acts of being a drunk/philandering/angry/immature individual and Courtney's reportedly drunken/unstable/angry/petty nature. No one is shocked.
- Post-separation, Zach continues to be a douchebag, and is charged with criminal trespassing. He's subsequently fired as this is the first actual criminal charge that OSU is made aware of. Combined with his other morally questionable behaviors, this is an easy call.
- At Big Ten Media days, Urban is asked about Zach and proceeds to botch it terribly. I'm in the party that 1) believes Urban owes reporters nothing and 2) believes Urban is not dumb enough to actually mean to tell reporters that Zach never did anything wrong, but I do believe he was hoping to limit the damage to the perception of the program for recruiting purposes and foolishly skates over everything about Zach. This backfires in a major way as McMurphy soon after edits his post to remove the mentions of an arrest or charge, tracks Courtney down to get only her side of the story, and twists the narrative to make it look like Urban knew about and covered up Zach's repeated abuse of Courtney.
- Based on the Facebook posts of an unemployed journalist who has not followed journalistic standards and did not reach out to anyone besides Courtney before publishing, the national media (including 11W) jump on Urban and OSU and immediately scream foul saying that Urban should be fired for allowing Zach to beat Courtney for years and not reporting it to...someone? They ignore the fact that police have consistently declined to press charges and refer to Courtney as a victim who has been neglected by Meyer and OSU.
- OSU goes into panic mode and botches their only opportunity to get out in front of the tide. They place Meyer on leave and launch an investigation to "see what he did and didn't know and if he reported it to anyone". The media takes this as evidence of wrongdoing and uses it as confirmation that Meyer enabled abuse.
- OSU spends the next few weeks doing nothing to back or support their coach or athletic director. By day three, the narrative has been set in stone. No nationally recognized media does any digging other than to look for more character issues with Zach. No one does any examination into the validity of Courtney's claims or her character.
- The OSU investigation concludes that Gene Smith and the Title IX director knew about the 2015 DV investigation before Urban did. Urban and Gene did not follow the correct steps of reporting it in writing to...someone. But still, they find that Urban and Gene did not conceal or impede the knowledge of the investigation and waited for law enforcement to conclude their investigation before making a decision. They also conclude that Zach likely should have been fired much sooner because he was often a subpar coach, does many morally questionable things, and is not a shining example for the university or team.
- The Board of Trustees convene to discuss the investigation findings and they reportedly push for Urban to be reinstated. Drake has reservations due to the media narrative and likely backlash. Urban and Gene are suspended because they didn't report the 2015 investigation (that ended in no charges) in writing to someone (God? Paul Finebaum? The NCAA? I really want to know who this was supposed to be) and because they didn't move more quickly to fire a subpar coach who also did a number of things that many average people would consider terrible. At the press conference, Urban looks to be some mixture of exhausted/disgusted/angry and when asked if he has a message for Courtney, states that he is "sorry that we are all in this situation".
- The media reacts with fresh fury that Urban and OSU clearly don't care about domestic violence because they didn't fire Urban
I know this is long, but am I missing anything here? Being completely honest, what do Urban and OSU owe Courtney? An apology for not firing her then-husband and removing their source of income sooner? Why is 11W not asking this question? Why is 11W not calling out their clearly-perfect contemporaries? If you want to say Urban is guilty of lying to the media, fine. Now tell us why any of us should care. If you want to say Urban is guilty of nepotism and poor management to not fire Zach Smith sooner, fine. Now tell us why any of us readers should care assuming that McMurphy had never gone on his crusade. 11W writers never thought it was important enough to tell us about what a terrible human Zach was in the past even though they clearly knew about it, so why is it so important a topic for the media now? If Urban is guilty of anything else, I'm all ears. As a manager, I can totally get Urban being chastised about his decision to keep employing a clearly substandard employee/individual, but the moment the media starts saying that Urban owes Courtney something because she has accused her ex of DV and pretending that Urban and OSU are somehow guilty of enabling DV, I jump off. Whatever the 11W writers' feelings about Zach and about whether or not he should have been employed as long as he was, it'd be nice to see the site we love and support stand up and call out some of this media hypocrisy and uninformed, fake-outrage. I will not hold my breath, though, because 11W seems to have jumped the shark and cares more about what their peers think of them than their readers.
I thought the Courtney Smith question yesterday was completely out of line. It was entirely design to entrap Urban Meyer.
The real truth? The biggest spotlight should be on Courtney Smith. There were allegations in 2009, but she remained married to Zach for 6 years. After the divorce she waited 2-3 years to make any allegations to the media. She could have divorced Zach in 2009 and we collectively would likely not be in this situation. What was the real motivation for waiting 8-9 years to let this all out?
In any case I'm glad that Urban and OSU can move on without the Jerry Springer drama.
This is what you get when you have a spineless Drake cowering to the PC crowd. They should have either exonerated him completely or fired him.
After watching the press conference, SEC ESPN Network's Paul Finebaum, who's been historically critical of Meyer, said "I believe his biggest failing was not personally apologizing to the victim in all of this, Courtney Smith.
I didn't read all the comments above but want to throw this in the mix; it might very well be the case that Urban would have loved to have apologized but can't. I would not rule out the possibility that Courtney sues Ohio State, and apology could function as some sort of admission in the lawsuit. I would bet everything I have that his statement was crafted by a team of lawyers and PR people, and he was told to read It and told how to answer questions, especially since this started because of a bungled press conference. All of this would happen in case there is a lawsuit coming. This is the reality of the world that we live in right now.
you are correct sir
Go Buck's vs the world
The reality is, there is nothing in the world Meyer could have said that wouldn't have generated a negative response from Finebaum. If Meyer had apologized and and resigned, Finebaum would have asked 'What took so long?' At this point, it's all just noise, and soon enough will be replaced by the next shiny thing. Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming.
Nope, Not the Whole Damn State!
after mishandling domestic violence allegations
So according to the national media, the proper way to handle domestic violence ALLEGATIONS is to fire everyone involved and kill your football program? Just checking because it seems that everyone outside of Buckeye Nation feels that would have been the only way to handle it. I can't help but laugh at *ichigan and notre dame fans calling for Meyer's head. Considering *ichigan kept a convicted sex-offender and rapist on scholarship and their football team and brian kelly got a student KILLED filming a farking PRACTICE!
My question is will the national media continue following the story and report out if the courts determine that there was no domestic violence? Or will they say that the courts are corrupt and covering for tOSU football as well?
This is why I HATE the main stream media and why it’s all a bunch of liars and virtue signalers. A fire has been lit in the soul of every single Ohio State player and if your the opponent team.... watch out because an angry team is about to rip you a new one.
Go Buckeyes and Go Lightning!
Idk man.. I would love to see this happen but honestly I fear we may sputter now. I know y'all are gonna down vote me, but I have a bad feeling that we may just die out. This is all a big deal and a bunch of garbage but it feels like it sets that stage that we don't want to see.
The presser last night threw gasoline on a fire that was already burning. My interpretation is that Meyer was tired from a 12 hour day and pissed that he was suspended at all. He didn't think he did anything to deserve it. I think he also clearly believes that Zach Smith did not beat his wife. Meyer is no dummy and he intentionally steered clear of apologizing to Courtney Smith when given the opportunity to do so. That would have been the easiest road to take and he chose not to take it. Why? Because he flat out doesn't believe her. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but that's the way it looked to me.
Well, after speaking to some people at the office today, even the people who follow politics closely had no idea about the OSU situation. Only the people who actively follow college football and some other sports had a clue. So while this is apparently a HUGE issue in the national SPORTS media, at least in my circles, nobody outside of hating college football fans/media even know about it.
It's front page news at CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.
All this crap brings to mind Point -Counterpoint on SNL w/ Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtain many years ago: Except Buckeyes should say - Media you ignorant Sl#*
the media normally sides with the victim
real or not
After reading the report I actually believe Meyer got of easily. It's not easy to remove your feelings for Ohio State football from the issue. If you were in the exact same position as Urban at your job, you would have been fired or put on some sort of probation/suspension. It's guaranteed.
Anyone who suggest otherwise didn't read the report or is letting their bias towards the football team get in the way. Urban was told at least once to fire Zach Smith and didn't, repeatedly overlooked awful job performance and lying (and character issues not representing the University well; a fireable offense in itself for Zach Smith), and his first reaction to realizing people could find out he knew about all of it was to figure out if he could delete content on his phone that would implicate him.
None of that represents good decision making, leadership, or anything positive.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
Are you related to our 35th President R Milhouse Nixon?
Haha, I am not. Just a nickname.
Agreed. I just wish all of the findings were made public, and not just a politically correct summary/report.
What proof do you have that all the findings were not released? People need to stop creating alternate realities that fit their own beliefs. Let's have discussion about what has happened and not imaginary shit.
Pundits?? Who gives a rat's ass?
One other thing. Get as much as you can now boys, cause there is gonna be hell to pay on the field this year.
Yes mistakes were made. Mistakes are not reason to abandon someone you supposedly are a fan of. This whole thing makes me sick. There are no real fans anymore. Just vultures waiting to pounce.
Damned if he do, damned if he don't. Urban said something in his letter about not letting opinions define him. He's a good man in my opinion.
Pundits seem to be spot on in my opinion.
This is totally expected from PC media. Hopefully, they can spew their venom out for a few days and move on the next thing they are 'outraged' about.
Realizing most posters of other fan bases are just miserable trolls, their 'outrage' is comical. Over 100 CF DI fan bases would take UM tomorrow easily. Joke.
You win with people
My response to this media frenzy is that they did the same thing to Ezekiel Elliott in a case that was proven to be false as pointed out by Skip Bayless this morning (I can’t believe I agreed with him). It is a shame people think that just because the police is called that it makes one guilty of a crime. Urban covered nothing up because no one was convicted in the courts. Additionally, if Zack Smith was fired because of hearsay wouldn’t that open up Ohio state for wrongful termination? Granted, they had plenty of things to fire smith for and urban acted stupidly in this regard warranting some kind of suspension. Also, wouldn’t Ohio state be a target of a lawsuit if Urban had mentioned her by name??? To get back to my point though, this is America where folks must be presumed innocent before guilty not the other way around. If that was the case, then all of the black folks who have recently had the police called on them for simply existing would be guilty of a crime as well. Thanks barbecue Becky!
"faith seeking understanding” (fides quaerens intellectum)
The national pundits can get fucked. The fact that ESPN is suddenly the last bastion of decency and morality is nothing short of hilarious to me. I'm glad I cut the cord on their miserable failure of a network, filled with hypocrites and buffoons.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
I see a lot of people claiming that it's a "fact" that Courtney Smith is lying about the DV allegations. Serious question: Why do these people feel that the "media" has an "agenda" and is out to get Urban Meyer--scruples and journalistic ethics be damned--but for some reason, Jeff Snook, a tool who writes lame, ego-stroking bios for head coaches and Art fucking Schlichter, is an unbiased, objective reporter of the facts? (And please for the love of god, don't cite his "journalism degree" as a credential--having a political science degree doesn't make someone a political scientist, nor does having a journalism degree make someone a journalist. He's a biographer--there's a difference).
As an exercise, find someone you know who is not a college football fan, but who has experience leading and managing a large organization, and ask them to read the report. I would wager that 9 times out of 10, that person would conclude that Urban and Gene got off easy.
Maybe because her own MOTHER came out and said that, as well as many others. The only one in this entire saga that is claiming abuse happened is Courtney. If just ONE other person came out to back up her story, I might give it a little more validity. I'm not saying she is in fact "lying" about the abuse, but everything that is out there makes her story highly questionable!
Whatever issues Snook may have, are you also willing to look at McMurphy? Let go by ESPN a couple years ago and no able to find another gig/not willing to stoop to writing for anything below his "market value". Interview Courtney, put together an incendiary piece with using a single secondary source of corroboration. Bypass any sort of editorial review or attempts to market his work to a larger media platform. Release the piece on Facebook (because anything anybody reads on the internet has to be absolutely true, right???). Make at least 5 substantive changes to the text ("arrested" becomes "investigated", "has" becomes "may have", etc.) without acknowledgement or footnote within 36 hours of the initial post. And when no requests for interviews or job offers came to his Linkedin page within a few days, he went ahead with the lewd and crude tales about ZS that had absolutely nothing to do with UFM but everything to do with drawing lurid attention to what was rapidly becoming a Page 5 story.
North until you smell it, west until you step in it
But I'm not talking about McMurphy. McMurphy isn't the person who conducted an independent investigation and recommended suspension of our head coach.
Also, regarding your insinuation that McMurphy wrote the story in an attempt to get a new job--do your research. He has had an agreement to join Stadium for months. He just couldn't start there until ESPN finished paying him what they owed him on his contract when they laid him off.
I think a lot of us have a problem with the way Brett McMurphy has seemingly gone after Ohio State and in particular Urban Meyer. And then the issue many of us have is "what exactly is his motive?" Is he actually just trying to get the story out there or is he attacking the university and specifically retaliating against comments made by coach Meyer? And I have a problem with the way he has presented this story from the beginning.
He wrote the story but then I believe Meyer insulted him and his integrity when he said ". . . once again, I don't know who creates a story like that . . " because from THAT point on, McMurphy then released additional information almost immediately. Meyer made a statement after he was suspended and then McMurphy released counter information almost immediately in what seemed like a coordinated and deliberate manner in order to discredit Meyer. And then over the course of the following two weeks, McMurphy was releasing tawdry details in small doses, again, in a manner which seems vindictive to me, as if he had an agenda to chop down Meyer at the knees.
I honestly believe THAT comment lit the fuse on this thing. I don't know what McMurphy's initial intent with the story was but I do firmly believe that Meyer's comment sent McMurphy down the war path and I have yet to hear one person in the media question his motives. I have heard a soft shoe, lazy softball thrown in this manner ". . . now Brett, isn't it true that your motive for this story was the story that broke last week about the charges filed against Zach Smith last week . . . " but I have YET to hear him directly challenged by any of the interviews I have watched or heard. Additionally, we know that McMurphy has gone back and edited his story, you can see the edits, but again he's never questioned on that.
Lastly, anyone in Buckeye Nation that questions the motives of the media is a whack job conspiracy theorist, paranoid, delusional fan, etc. but when a reporter states that people in the Powell Police Department changed the original police report, revised it and covered up the original report, that's okay? That's not way out there and wacky, that's perfectly acceptable. That's not conspiracy theory, paranoid, delusional whack job non-sense, that actually happened.
If Meyer is accused of turning a blind eye towards Zach Smith then I am accusing the majority of media outlets that have covered this story of turning a blind eye towards Brett McMurphy's motives and agenda on this story.
I'm just amazed at people throwing stones from their glass houses...
Google "ESPN sports casters accused of assault" and you'll get stories about Jjohn Buccigross, Donovan McNabb and even St. Mike Tirico (who I actually like) who lives in Ann Arbor.
Then, the TTUN fans who are all over the radio today about how Ohio State is slimy ("can't shame someone who has no shame"). Funny, I work in Ann Arbor and I don't remember getting riled up because of how TTUN handled the Gibbons affair. https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/07/federal_investiga...
Guy was arrested for sexual assault but played for another 3 years. But whatever, scum fans, you're better than OSU.
Someone on Ann Arbor radio today said that "obviously, OSU places winning above all else".
I said, don't you think you guys do the same thing?
"oh no" he says...
so I said, "well then how do you explain Rich Rodriguez?"
TTUN was so desperate they hired that loser.
But where are you going to find someone that leads a large organization that (1) is not a football fan and (2) has scruples?
The Paul Slimebaum comment pisses me off the most, why should Urban have to apologize to Courtney Smith? Like firing Zack Smith in 2015 was going to magically stop any abuse she was receiving? Paul, maybe you should take a look at the issues with the SEC before making stupid comments on Big Ten issues. To include in this, Heather Dinich is just as stupid. Her article today about Urban also is ridiculous saying that he still has not learned. They are treating him as if he was the one committing the abuse!! Look, I know he could of handled the situation better and done more from a reporting stand point, that is why he is suspended 3 games, but these people think that him reporting it better and firing Smith then would have some how magically fixed the DV issue and everything else. They are just playing the click bait game knowing more people do not like OSU therefore will side with them, even if they are completely wrong and biased just to get views. Pisses me right off.
"You got barbecue back there? Hurt my feelings!"
i am not certain Meyer cares to win the PR game. Not that he came off as vindictive or even uncaring but my GOD the last three times he has had a microphone in his face he has not exactly helped himself.
Courtney may be a vindictive person but when someone like her is hurt due to someone else's actions , they dont think straight. Believe me, i lived it. If shes lying, she is likely at a point where she believes her own lies and certainly believes no one is on her side or trying to help her. Urban most certainly could have made a vague reference to being there for her and any other person who feels abused in that manner. I lived with a Courtney and i have stories that equal these but i also know my X felt like no one cared about her feelings all the while she was doing Courtney type things Urban had given Zach so much BOD that She felt like Urban was on his side even if he was not and i can see why. I know he is just a football coach but he must do a better job with his image whether he likes it or not.
If they can win 3 championship games with a 3rd string QB...
Bring it the f$#k on.
F*** them all...that is all.
This is my last comment on this subject. Let's start talking about football...9 days away! Go beat Oregon State by 70!
This is far from over. Reporters will continue to research and look into this story until they find what they want - that piece of evidence/interview that finally embarrassed them enough to fire Meyer. I may get downvoted into oblivion, but if you read/listen to what guys like McMurphy and Wolken are writing and saying, this is far from over and won’t stop any time soon. There’s still a story and they’re going to find it.
"Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed, is more important than any other one thing." - Abraham Lincoln
They all live in glass houses.
How can 11W print thoughts from the punditry without the insights from Mark May ???
Seriously, Meyer's biggest failure, aside from hiring Smith back in '12, was not firing him after '13. The job performance has been nothing short of miserable. And the head coach reacted by keeping his pay rate at half the next lowest position coach. How's that supposed to work, make it easier for Paducah State to make a run at hiring him away? Seriously Urbs, you shoulda tried harder to just make him go away. Years ago.
As predicted the media jumped in the deep end of the pool head first with their narrative and are demonizing, vilifying, and crucifying Urban and the University. It would not have mattered what the conclusion was. If they had fired Meyer, they would be saying all these same things about him and this whole situation would have been his fault and the University would have been made out as a cesspool of evil ceeated by Meyer and an enabling administration. You currently see how the suspension angle has been worked out and the spin for that scenario! If they had stood by him and supported him and reinstated him, well I'm sure you can just imagine!
And it really doesn't matter how he would've acted or handled that presser last night they would have found a way to make him look like the worst person on the planet. He could have broke down and cried and said he feels so guilty that this situation has happened. That its entirely his fault and he should have been more observant and less forgiving of Zacks faults. He could have said I dont know what happened with ZS and CS relationship but he should've tried to do more to help. And to CS specifically I'm sorry if my not taking more action caused you any harm. He could have been so emotional that they would have had to help him to a chair! The media would have found a way to spin that! They probably would have said that just shows you how deplorable his handling of this mess was, that is the response of a guilty man! He allowed all of this because he was more worried about winning and glorifying himself than the suffering of that poor poor woman at the hands of a man Urban knew to be a disgusting and vile abuser!
Believe what you will but the media has there agenda and nothing would've changed the narrative yesterday!
Screw the media! They are all a bunch of sheep marching to the same social justice drum, with their company line scripts already pre-written! Im not saying Urban shouldn't have handled Zack much differently before he did. I'm just saying the narrative that the media is taken that Courtney is this poor victim and somehow its Urban's fault is ridiculous! Urban didn't abuse her, he had no credible knowledge or evidence to act upon when it came to abuse! If she was abused that's terrible but it isn't Meyer's fault, that would be Zack! Putting the blame on Meyer is absolutely Bullshit! He doesn't owe her an apology either. If she was abused then Zack deserves jail and the police owe her an apology and deserve to be prosecuted for their failure to do there jobs. If she is a vindictive Ex-wife who enflamed the situation of her marriage and sensationalized the storybto destroy her exhusband, then she deserves to be exposed!
Either way, you can believe what you want, you can look at the report and dissect every detail and find hindsight reasons to say Urban fucked up. The fact is none of us lived through it and saw things as they occurred from the perspective of Meyer when it was happening. So to vilify him and say he's lucky he didn't lose his job makes you no better than those people in the media who are saying it.
Let's move on! Move on to football and hopefully the media will figure out none of there opinions matter and will shut up and move on as well!
BuckinNc, yes, OSU keeps making the same mistakes in PR.
It would not have mattered what the conclusion was. If they had fired Meyer, they would be saying all these same things... You currently see how the suspension angle has been worked out and the spin for
We all learn lessons from our mistakes, and unfortunately, many of the lessons learned are wrong! By self-flagellating, OSU has the worst of all worlds: they hurt themselves, they admit guilt, and they still get attcked by the media.
Hello? Stop doing that.
And get a new PR staff and hire a new PR firm.
And by the way, the brilliant Dr Drake needs to think outside the box. Suspensions hurt the players, hurt the recruits, hurt the team, hurt the football program, and hurt the university as well as the coach and AD. Instead, if he feels he must mete out punishment, then just fine the individuals-- UM and GS. Then everyone else is unharmed.
Why is it Urban Meyer's job, or the job of anyone's boss, to make sure that the wife of a jackass that allegedly beats her is safe? That is the job of the married couple's respective families and the law. My boss is my brother, and he runs a small business (very small compared to OSU Atheletics) and barely has the time to know what's going on in his own family, much less mine. Here's how that conversation goes: Brother/boss: I heard you had some trouble last weekend with your wife Me/employee: "It's nothing" Brother/boss: "Were you arrested?" Me/employee: "No." Brother/boss: "OK, let me know if there's anything I can do". The words "...or I'll have to fire you" never get added to that last sentence. My brother has less than 50 employees. Meyer has closer to 150, and the majority of them are not legally adults, so where do you think his focus mostly lies? Unless my actions are disruptive to the company, they are not on my boss's radar.
If the OSU players were involved, i.e. knew about all of this and were being influenced to think that by ZS continued presence on the team that DV is ok, that's one thing. I've read nowhere that this was the case. So, it is not out of the realm of possibility to believe that this really wasn't on Meyer's radar ... he was busy coaching one of the top 3 division one football programs in America, and I can safely bet that that takes an inordinate amount of time and attention, easily enough to make other matters, however important, fade into the background.
The national media has one thing on its collective mind, and that is to get the story. Individually, those media members are driven to make sure that they get the story themselves (or at least be a significant part of it), and be relevant. Common sense has no place in this pursuit, just clicks and ratings and face time (or air time).
So, what should Meyer have done? Fire ZS sooner? Tell CS he was sorry yesterday that he didn't (even though that would have impacted her negatively due to the loss of family income)? Call the Powell PD and say "Hey, I think you should probably arrest ZS because I think something is going on and CS won't tell you"? Meyer was/is in a no-win situation.
Finally, CS mother knew what was going on. Why isn't anyone crucifying her in the national media (maybe they are and I haven't seen it)?
Just take a breath...
This isn't complicated. Read the report. Urban had an obligation to report this under the terms of his own employment contract.
Pg. 7 of the investigative report: "Under his employment contract with OSU, Urban Meyer had at all relevant times an obligation to 'immediately report to the [Athletic] Director and to the Department's Office of Compliance Services in writing if any person or entity, including without limitation, representatives of Ohio State's athletic interests, has violated or is likely to violate or may potentially have violated any [applicable] laws,' including all federal state and local laws."
Unless I am missing something, which I might be, he DID report as required, didn't he? I am just saying that his responsibility should end with the conclusion of the report.
Pg. 17-18 of the report, wherein they discuss whether or not Urban failed to report: "Coach Meyer, because he was first informed of the 2015-2016 investigation by AD Smith, believed that he had no further reporting obligations...Neither made any report of the matter to Athletic Compliance or University Compliance for consideration of whether an internal investigation should be conducted...Reporting requirements are intended to be both broad and redundant--in the case of Coach Meyer, they require reporting (in writing) to two places (to the AD and to Athletic Compliance) and the obligation to report is placed on each individual, an obligation not relieved by the knowledge or reporting by another individual. While we find that both Coach Meyer and AD Smith believed in good faith that they did not have sufficient information to trigger any reporting obligation, we believe that they viewed the issue too narrowly through the lens of law enforcement action."
I can't find anywhere in the report that indicates that Coach Meyer reported this to anyone. But in the paragraph above and elsewhere, they repeatedly state that he did NOT report as required. Furthermore, per the clause in his employment contract that I cited above, he had an obligation to immediately report any potential violation of the law by a member of his staff. Waiting until the law enforcement investigation is complete is not "immediately" reporting--it's the opposite, in fact. Fans can argue over the philosophical question regarding what a coach's responsibilities ought to be vis-a-vis their staff, but the language in his employment contract is cut-and-dry. He can't claim ignorance of his responsibilities. And not to editorialize too much, but any public employee who earns millions of dollars a year had better know damn well what is expected of them in the terms of their employment.
Actually, SoCar, Urban and Gene were notified by the compliance office of the police reports. So what's the point of Urban contacting them? The investigative report stated:
both Coach Meyer and AD Smith believed in good faith that they did not have sufficient information to trigger any reporting obligation
Was there a dark cover-up? No. It was in good faith. So what's the problem? In hindsight, someone could say UM and GS technically should have done more about potential domestic abuse even tho' the police and compliance office were already involved. So the report states:
we believe that they viewed the issue too narrowly through the lens of law enforcement action.
It's weird that these pundits still seem to respect Jimbo Fisher after he consistently and blatently covered for a seafood stealing rapist.
The browns suck and always will. Baker is a huge douche too. May a drunken mod edit this signature because it hurts his butt
Honestly at this point, all I can say is fuck everyone who wants to weigh in and pile on Urban without even knowing more than 20% of the total information.
It is a downright disgrace that Urban's name has and will continue to be dragged through the mud over something that I honestly think he handled in a way that almost anyone else would have, probably even better than most.
And fuck Zach and Courtney for not separating sooner and continuing to let their toxic relationship affect so many other people without handling it like civilized adults.
Still having a hard time over punishing, anyone, for anything over: Unfounded, Unproven, Allegations. If that's the new standard---and you suspend/crucify people over allegations----then when does that end???
+ Regardless of the outcome Urban was going to lose respect.+ Urban should have known more is not a cover up or a fireable offense. + most of the people who thinks Meyer should have been fired already had their mind made up onc McMurphys story came out, this investigation would not have swayed them regardless. + iMO Urban should donate $2m to DV organizations and apologize to Courtney Smith. + urban didn't commit DV and he didn't cover it up but if you listen to the "know-it-alls" he shot the President. + we will win the Big and NC and be a thorn in the media and haters sides.
Thanks be to God!
"Tough times don't last, tough people do" - Gregory Peck
Sorry - I was in the bathroom- did I miss something?
Everyone should Google "ESPN Sexual Harrassment Cover Up(s)" and send the findings to any gasbag associated with them.
Meh............national media dislikes a winner....except in the SEC...then it's homerism galore...
The sad truth is Saban would not go through this. old Nicky would have told the media to piss off, and Alabama would have circled the wagons. I sometimes think Ohio State tries to damn hard to be "liked" and not enough time defending a wrong. At this point an obvious wrong that the media is inflicting on one of it's own. The little fiasco last night certainly did no favors to that either.
Living in SEC country... and Loving it!!!!
I began my Buckeye fan journey in 1975. i was a kid, and it was my first experience watching a football game. In all that time I cannot remember when tOSU was ever respected by the majority of the national news. We have always been targeted as cheaters for as long as I can remember. The media are whores. Whores that flock to a story to destroy anyone they choose, and move along. If they do not get to destroy their target, they will move to the next unlucky bastard that falls into their sites. This will pass. The dogs will cease to be fed, and they will flee. I for one do not care. I don't care how we are viewed by the media, other fan bases, or the nation. I cannot remember a time when we were viewed in a good light. I stand with Urban, the University, and the findings. Everyone else...... Who cares...!!!
I’m sorry, but this is way too close to exactly what’s going on in politics right now. An insane and politically motivated media smelling blood in the water. These are truly ignorant and dangerous comments being made by these folks. Honestly, they’re treating OSU worse than they treated PSU. They wanted a scalp and they didn’t get it. End of story. FUCK OFF.
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
I have decided to avoid the sports networks during the aftermath of this investigation and yesterday's decision. Tired hearing the hash comments and personal attacks on Urban and everyone at Ohio State. Yes, this was an unfortunate chapter and mistakes were made to be sure, but the people who feel the three game suspension was not appropriate are simply not being objective. First, when Urban reported the 2015 incident to his boss(Gene Smith) the issue should have been taken out of his hands and handled by the AD and compliance department/HR. After the issues in 2009, the subsequent problems should have triggered an automatic termination of employment. Urban did not handle the press conference with his normal skills, but he was clearly upset over the suspension and how this situation has exploded into a national scandal. Fair or not, the decision has been made and everyone has to move forward and hopefully learn from the experience..
this matter is still under investigation. dv has not been charged as of now. Criminal trespassing is still under investigation. so much for the justice system.
Morning work out and drive to work (still not being very productive; only in chunks today), I was unable to avoid the pundits. It's painful, yet I still find it somewhat amusing on one hand and disconcerting on the other. Based on what I've seen/heard, the focus just gives away how "high and mighty" the media views itself. First, most still reflect an inability to focus on the facts. Second, their focus is almost exclusively on the Big Ten Media Days press conference and "Urban lied" (he did not and I believe the report refutes this) and last night's press conference and "poor Courtney, he couldn't even say sorry to her." The focus of the media is largely on two press conferences. Imagine that. /s I'm Urban's age. After 12 hours of meetings, stressful meetings, probably the most stress I would have experienced, I'm not going to be my best remorseful, contrite self. I'm going to be worn out. I'm going to read the damn statement and not say anything that can get me in more hot water. But that's not good enough for the media. Courtney Smith will need money. She is going to sue Ohio State and Urban and Gene and etc etc. No way in the world are you going to apologize to her or provide one ounce of any statement that could be twisted by her lawyer into being an admission of liability. Ohio State's general counsel last night prior to the presser would have strenuously emphasized "don't mention her, don't acknowledge her." But that's not good enough for the media, because it was a presser and that's the most important thing in the world to them.
But still, the reason we are where we are today isn't because of the media. It's because Urban never fired Zach Smith despite multiple opportunities where he should have over the past decade.
The one thing the report neglected to say is that Paul Finebaum is a significant and total ass.
Paul does have his lips firmly attached to Nick Saban's ass.
Why waste ~$1500/hr stating the obvious?
These pundits opinions are worth the same as a three dollar bill.
The price of those opinions are too damn high!
The worst was DiNardo’s. I expect this sort of character assassination from the others. It sickened me when Dinardo suggested that if the team performance isn’t seriously affected in a negative way, then the punishment didn’t do its job. Are you kidding me? He thinks a fair punishment is whatever gives these 18-22 year old OSU players a disappointing season. What in hell is wrong with him? And his apoplectic fit about the press conference not being all about domestic violence. What in the name of God moved him to think it would be about that and not about the findings of a report investigating OSU staff members and the BoT punishment? If he wants domestic violence stories, he should be at a press conference with the Powell police, or McMurphy.
Don't expect anything intelligent from a dunce that went to Notre Shame. And has a coaching record of 59-76.
Ok. Urban should have fired the guy years ago. In hindsight, I don’t think he would disagree. He could have done better. No doubt! But.... show me any proof whatsoever that CS was abused. To jump on her bandwagon just because it’s the “safe” thing to do and she “said so” is total bullshit! And a cop-out! The easy avenue to travel. I hate this world of social media. If I were a coach on any level, I’d be absolutely terrified!!! So sick of this witch hunt. Thank God we no longer burn “witches” at the stake! We’re taking a step back, people, not forward!!!!
The biggest disappointment to me was Gerry Dinardo .... He's been opening fire on Urban since the get go ....
Courtney deserved absolutely no apology from Urban - none .... With the exception of McMurphy and a handful of ESPN sheep, her story about abuse has too many holes. Her own mother lined up against her - I was glad to see that a police officer weighed in on the boards to explain what happens when they see signs of abuse - there is an arrest, period .... It doesn't matter if neither side wishes to press charges, it's not open to debate.
While I think ZS is a person of questionable character, the floor is never slanted all one direction and I have no doubt that Courtney brandished her own version of abuse at Zach (deserved or not). The only true victims in this whole mess are the Smith's children, which none of the snot-nosed media have even mentioned. C
Any time sooo many Espin (alias eSEC) talking heads are disappointed then I'm happy. Glad to see coach Meyer is retained as coach. I think the penalty was too severe.
Buckeye by birth. Christian by 2nd birth. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
Brennan and Nicole can go eat a bag of dicks. Finebaum too and McMurphy.
If you are referring to Nicole Auerbach, she is a TSUN grad. Early on in her career on BTN, after some clearly, shall I say, one sided comments on tOSU, Gerry DiNardo literally turned to her and asked her if she could be unbiased in her reporting, true story. While at UM she overlapped her academic sojourn with those of Brendon Gibbons and Taylor Lewan. Look to see if she has said one word about, as the AP has reported, the University of Michigan stonewalling the Title IX investigation on campus. After doing several online searches, she has not said one word about any of the aforementioned Michigan investigations, not. one. word. Curious then she chooses to repeat earlier versions of the facebook story which have been redacted and amended as proof of a storyline which was not supported by the commissioned investigation of tOSU.
My first thought when all of this came out was that there would be evidence that Courtney was abused. In hindsight, gave too much benefit of the doubt, since as the investigation went on, the less and less evidence there was of actual abuse. A million calls to the cops, no arrests, no charges, no nothing (not defending ZS, fuck em). But Urban “didn’t care enough”?!
WHAT PLANET DO THESE ASSHATS LIVE ON?
we are all against domestic violence. I do have a question though. Not to be insensitive, but how exactly is firing the abuse of Zac Smith beneficial to Courtney? Should Urban , knowing that there was trouble, just washed his hands of Zach Smith and send him on his way? Idk
Always forward. Forward always
Urban was being carefully worded and terse because I don't think he fully agreed to the suspension, but had to accept it.
As for having been asked to make a statement to Courtney Smith -- that's entrapment IMO. If he had offered an apology he would have appeared guilty, which would make the backlash even worse.
But who cares what these people say. We're always hated anyway because we're Ohio State. We only get this much media attention because we're Ohio State. If this had happened at Mississippi Valley State nobody would bat an eye.
But we are Buckeye Nation, the largest CFB fanbase in the nation. We're happy to have our coach back. If certain media outlets want to continue to attack the program there will be consequences in viewership, sponsors, etc.
I saw Cris Carter's take and I didn't think it was a bad take. He says he is disappointed but Urban is human and made a mistake. He had a "Blind spot".
The narrative that OSU and Meyer put "winning above morality" just doesn't seem to hold here. Perhaps a better statement would be that Meyer put loyalty above common sense. I say this because A.) nobody seems to remember the fact that the projected starting running back for 2016, Brionte Dunn, was immediately released from the team by Meyer following a 911 call from a female stating he raped her and B.) OSU was not winning because of Smith. Heck, some could argue they were winning despite Zach Smith. ZS was no Kirby Smart or key cog that contributed to their on-field success.
Bottom line is with all of ZS's baggage, it doesn't take a genius to think maybe he's not the best employee to keep on staff. This is where it seems Meyer's loyalty got in the way of rational thinking. Most people would have cut ties with the dude a long time ago. I'm as big a fan of Meyer as anyone else but he is definitely not without his faults.
Regarding not apologizing to CS at the end, that would have been an acknowledgment of the DV. I'm guessing knowing what Meyer knows having been family friends with them since 2009 and coaching with ZS since then, he and Shelley firmly believe that the DV goes both ways and that they are just one of those couples who constantly fight and drape themselves in drama. You really think the national media, the talking heads on ESPN, Finebaum, are more keenly attune to the inner workings of that couple than the Meyer's? They remind me of that couple that everyone knew in their early 20s, when out at the bar would get into huge fights and create a massive scene where the bouncers had to get involved and always ended the night early for everyone else out with them having a good time. Certain people just thrive off of drama, for attention, for whatever, and the Smiths seem to be those types of people.
ESPN started all this crap and the others have followed suit. No doubt in my mind ESPN is the original troll farm. Mark May, Colin Cowherd, Stephen A, Brett McMurphy, Paul Finebahm what do the all have in common?
Everyone watch this. Finally someone not associated with ohio state in any way defending Ohio state. Hopefully this brings out more people doing so.
I doubt it. But he REALLY hits the nail on the head.
All click bait take nonsense. I hope Urban Meyer has the guts to go full Bill Belichick at every news conference from now until he retires
Bears...Buckeyes... Battlestar Galactica.
Media pundits be like ...... "kick em when they.re up, kick em when they're down, kick em when the're up, kick em all around."
Buckeye in the ATL
A wise man once said, “opinions are like assholes. Everyone’s got one. Most of the time, they’re full of shit”.
If anyone wants to watch here’s a video from a guy that says TCU more than likely will win the game now that urban won’t Be coaching.. oh I’m sorry I didn’t know we weren’t Ohio state without Urban. Go tell that to Woody, or Jim. I can’t stand the media. This guy is a fan of the university that kept Joe Mixon on the team. Solid
The Future is Bright at Ohio State
Was watching Johnathon Vilma on College Football Live preaching from his ivory tower and passing judgment on OSU and Urban. Please! This is the same guy that was suspended by the NFL for 12 games for his part in organizing paying Saint players for injuring opponents.
Every one of the national pundits (even Brennan, who is from Ohio), is a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance. They have accepted, without pause, the word of an accuser who's own mother has disowned her due to what she has done in front of her own children.
I don't like ZS, please please please dont make me defend him.
When the "national pundits" accept at face value accusation that are entirely without EVIDENCE, it reminds me another prominent national figure that is assumed guilty without actual evidence. You know, evidence, like the kind that can stand up in court! Not hearsay or unsubstantiated claims.
If these "national pundits" are disappointed now, just wait until the Ex Parte hearing for CS CPO. When the Powell PD investigators testify that CS has called them so many times without merit, and they cant support her claims, they will really flip out! I cant wait!
Tom Herman's wife, has stated to Mr Snook, that CS NEVER shared accusations of abuse with the rest of the wives. They obviously remained close, as the Herman's gave/loaned CS $10,000 well after The Hermans left OSU. Arent the Hermans the kind of friends you would share this info with? Yet Mrs Herman states flatly she has NO KNOWLEDGE, and CS NEVER SHARED this info with the wives.
So: Was she lying about CS to protect her husband's high paying Texas job from a Title 9 witch hunt?
Christine Brennen, FAKE NEWS!